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Josh Rosen

CMicks3110 : 2/10/2018 9:47 pm
So what is your thoughts on him as a prospect?
Damn good QB  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 9:52 pm : link
Good footwork, mechanics and great pocket presence. Plays like a QBuch older then he is. Extremely accurate and throws a beautiful ball. Definitely my favorite player in this draft.
I think he's the best QB prospect  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 9:58 pm : link
Since Luck. Could probably play an NFL game tomorrow. Luckily for the Giants they can have him sit a year while he adds some bulk. Mature beyond his years both on and off the field. Most QB prospects aren't this polished coming out of college at 2?-24 years old. Just a natural passer. Puts it where only his guys can get it. Puts it where his guys can gain a lot of YAC.

There aren't many knocks on him outside of his injury history. Also a knock on him is that he forces a lot of throws. I don't think that will be a problem in the NFL. Especially if he had Odell, Shep, Engram, Ellison, Gallman, King. The only way they had a chance to win in college is if he took risks. He literally had to do it. Very smart kid so I don't believe forcing stuff will be a problem in the NFL.
As if this has not been part of some thread everyday  
djstat : 2/10/2018 9:58 pm : link
Just kidding...I think he has all the tools. His privileged attitude concerns me as does his health. But from a talent stand point i like him.
concerns are: can't stay healthy,  
japanhead : 2/10/2018 9:59 pm : link
multiple head injuries, relative lack of athleticism/mobility, reputation for being unlikeable.
I think he's the best QB prospect  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 9:59 pm : link
Since Luck. Could probably play an NFL game tomorrow. Luckily for the Giants they can have him sit a year while he adds some bulk. Mature beyond his years both on and off the field. Most QB prospects aren't this polished coming out of college at 2?-24 years old. Just a natural passer. Puts it where only his guys can get it. Puts it where his guys can gain a lot of YAC.

There aren't many knocks on him outside of his injury history. Also a knock on him is that he forces a lot of throws. I don't think that will be a problem in the NFL. Especially if he had Odell, Shep, Engram, Ellison, Gallman, King. The only way they had a chance to win in college is if he took risks. He literally had to do it. Very smart kid so I don't believe forcing stuff will be a problem in the NFL.
Rick what do you really think? Lol  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 2/10/2018 10:01 pm : link
I can get why you'd like him but how do you get over the injury history?
RE: concerns are: can't stay healthy,  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 10:01 pm : link
In comment 13828877 japanhead said:
Quote:
multiple head injuries, relative lack of athleticism/mobility, reputation for being unlikeable.


Athleticism & mobility is simply not true. Sure he's not going to take off and run like he's Michael Vick, but his pocket presence is very very good. The reputation for being unlikeable is ridiculous too. I've talked to many of his current and former teammates. Haven't heard a bad word about him.

Even if he was unlikeable I wouldn't care. Aaron Rodgers is a complete fucking dick head and his parents don't even like him. Never heard of it being a problem.
Jint Fan  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 10:02 pm : link
The concussions don't really bother me. He's had two in his 3 years in college. I'd bet that most college players have had 2 concussions throughout their college career.
What rick said  
djm : 2/10/2018 10:04 pm : link
But I might leave out the last line. Until I see how the Giants react to all these qbs and players after the combine and pro days I will reserve my judgement. But I want to love rosen. And I'd bet the Giants do too. And here's the thing, there is no way in hell the Giants find too much wrong with rosen's ability. Rosen is simply a different level of qb compared to the others. He's running an NFL offense and making throws that no one else is making right now. Doesn't mean the others can't reach a higher level in the pros, but that's scouting. No one knows for sure....
RE: Damn good QB  
djm : 2/10/2018 10:05 pm : link
In comment 13828872 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Good footwork, mechanics and great pocket presence. Plays like a QBuch older then he is. Extremely accurate and throws a beautiful ball. Definitely my favorite player in this draft.


When I said what rick said I mean this post.
Djm  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 10:06 pm : link
The craziest part is he's been doing all of this at 18, 19 & 20 years old.
The last thing anyone should care about  
djm : 2/10/2018 10:11 pm : link
Is rosen's alleged aloofness or whatever the hell people are mentioning. Asshole, aloof, unlikeable, whatever... total crap. Irrelevant noise. Whether his heart is in it long haul? Ok fine that's a trait of rumor you'd want to invest further. You want to know if rosen has a burning desire to win but I don't give a shit if he's liked or disliked. And I don't think I let the two concussion thing scare me off completely. Obviously you're going to check and recheck rosen's medicals and make sure he's not a higher risk, etc...

Asshole factor would be tenth on my top ten list of concerns.
Based on cumulative reading...  
Bill L : 2/10/2018 10:13 pm : link
Very good QB. Most pro-ready. Lower ceiling than Darnold but less risk to hit that low ceiling as compared to Darnold. Reportedly is not likeable by coaches or teammates and comes with some maturity concerns. Assuming those can be dealt with or explained away, then the biggest concern is huge concussion history and background/attitude that makes one feel like he could be a Chris Borland redoux. Likely a short shelf-life (even more than your average RB).
RE: Based on cumulative reading...  
Milton : 2/10/2018 10:22 pm : link
In comment 13828892 Bill L said:
Quote:
Lower ceiling than Darnold but less risk to hit that low ceiling as compared to Darnold.
If Tom Brady/Peyton Manning is a lower ceiling, than Darnold's ceiling must be Clark Kent?
He ainít Brady or Manning  
Bill L : 2/10/2018 10:25 pm : link
.
FWIW, and itís not much except for grins  
Bill L : 2/10/2018 10:27 pm : link
But since people are putting up comps, itís worth noting that in the nfl.com draft analysis that lists pros and cons, they say that his best comp is Trent Green.
Ironically, the have Darnoldís comp  
Bill L : 2/10/2018 10:29 pm : link
As Andrew Luck
And you really donít want to know who they list as  
Bill L : 2/10/2018 10:29 pm : link
Barkelyís Comp
If it wasn't for the concussions  
Jay on the Island : 2/10/2018 10:38 pm : link
he would have been my favorite QB in the draft. I just think that he is too risky to take at 2 but if the Giants doctors feel that the concussions aren't concerning then I would be very happy with either him or Darnold at 2. Rosen is the most NFL ready QB despite only being 20 years old. His talent is undeniable.
RE: He ainít Brady or Manning  
Milton : 2/10/2018 10:50 pm : link
In comment 13828895 Bill L said:
Quote:
.
Why not? He's a smart, gifted, pocket QB with a strong and accurate arm. At the age of 20 he has already mastered the mechanics of his position, his game will only continue to mature from here, so why shouldn't his ceiling be Brady or Manning? Or Marino or Aikman, for that matter?
The Best  
lax counsel : 2/10/2018 11:09 pm : link
Qb to come out since Luck, and the best qb prospect that will come out for many years to come. There simply aren't any other qbs in the college ranks like him that are coming out over the next few years. If the Giants pass on him, it will be a franchise changing mistake that will lead them in a continuous search for a qb, much like the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins.
RE: RE: concerns are: can't stay healthy,  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 11:27 pm : link
In comment 13828880 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 13828877 japanhead said:


Quote:


multiple head injuries, relative lack of athleticism/mobility, reputation for being unlikeable.



Athleticism & mobility is simply not true. Sure he's not going to take off and run like he's Michael Vick, but his pocket presence is very very good. The reputation for being unlikeable is ridiculous too. I've talked to many of his current and former teammates. Haven't heard a bad word about him.

Even if he was unlikeable I wouldn't care. Aaron Rodgers is a complete fucking dick head and his parents don't even like him. Never heard of it being a problem.

Just out of curiosity, in what capacity did you find yourself talking to "many of his current and former teammates"?
Even if he isn't Brady or Manning  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 11:39 pm : link
That's not really a bad thing. They are two of the top 5 best QBs of all time. If he keeps progressing like he has up until this age then he's going to be a top QB in the NFL. Probably make a bunch of Pro Bowls. I can't think of a single QB who was better then him at his age. I'm only 28 though. So the first draft I really remember paying a lot of attention to was the 2002 NFL Draft. For some reason people keep forgetting he's so young.

Eli basically just became a starter in college at 20 years old. Rosen has been tearing up good teams since he was 18.

If anybody has any questions about him or doesn't like him just go watch the USC game from this past season. USC didn't have a great team this past year yet they are still light years ahead of UCLA. Dude was fucking awesome. Also you could watch the Texas A&M game where he tore up an SEC defense. Once again UCLA was completely overmatched against Stanford. He completed 67% of his passes with 500 yards from scrimmage and 3 TDs & 2 INTs.

A lot of his INTs are because his team was so bad that he had to force throws for them to even have a chance. Basically Rosen's college career is summed up in Ernie Accorsi's scouting report of Eli Manning. Team is overmatched and under coached. Everybody brings up Wyoming sucking, but their receivers had only a 7.6 drop percentage. Which was worse then the USC receivers, but better then Oklahoma. Rosen's was by far the worst out of the top 4 QBs. UCLA had a 13.8 drop percentage. Rosen had a 76.5 adjusted completion percentage which is 2nd among QBs in the draft. Only behind Baker Mayfield. Which is quite impressive as his supporting cast is the worst of the top 4 QBs and he doesn't play in a spread offense like Mayfield does. Dude is just a flat out stud.
A breakdown of rosen  
Jarvis : 2/11/2018 12:12 am : link
This is by Eliot Crist. He has a thread for all the QBs




Rosen discussion with video - ( New Window )
Whoa  
Modus Operandi : 2/11/2018 2:53 am : link
As Barkley's comparison, they have...Barry Sanders?

That's a little kind.
Bill L  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 2/11/2018 6:33 am : link
As for the NFL.com's write-up on Rosen (and the Trent Green comp), they also claim that Rosen has below average arm talent. Watch the film and tell me you agree with that assessment. That makes me disregard everything they say about QBs.

I think Big Rick is right. Rosen has the most talent of the group, is the most advanced in terms of mechanics of any QB coming out in the last ten years at least and is still young. He would be my pick for the Giants. I'm not worried about the injury history, and I am certainly not worried about the character concerns.
He is this generations Ryan Leaf...  
Zepp : 2/11/2018 7:13 am : link
He's a typical immature millennial who has great physical abilities but doesn't have the maturity to do what it takes to win long term.

Stay far, far away.
Who  
jeff57 : 2/11/2018 7:25 am : link
?
RE: He is this generations Ryan Leaf...  
Mike in NY : 2/11/2018 7:41 am : link
In comment 13828948 Zepp said:
Quote:
He's a typical immature millennial who has great physical abilities but doesn't have the maturity to do what it takes to win long term.

Stay far, far away.


I see Tim Couch. A physically gifted QB who can win if he has the talent around him, but he will ultimately be as good as the surrounding players take him. When I looked at Eli Manning in college I saw a QB taking a team that would struggle to be bowl eligible to a top 15 finish.
Tim Couch  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 2/11/2018 7:58 am : link
played in a Fun-N-Gun Hal Mumme offense. He had below average arm talent and did not have to read defenses. Rosen plays in a pro-style offense, has excellent arm talent and accuracy, and has to read the entire field. No comparison.

Ryan Leaf ? Come on...
If he is there at #2 Rosen should be the pick  
Jimmy Googs : 2/11/2018 7:58 am : link
too talented a QB to overemphasize the concussion history.

Don't understate that the other guys are lesser QBs...
I think heís Troy Aikman 2.0  
The_Boss : 2/11/2018 9:11 am : link
With regards to mechanics, arm strength, and pinpoint accuracy. Heís my guy.
RE: I think heís Troy Aikman 2.0  
Bill L : 2/11/2018 9:30 am : link
In comment 13828981 The_Boss said:
Quote:
With regards to mechanics, arm strength, and pinpoint accuracy. Heís my guy.
ithink heís more Chris Borland 2.0. But maybe heís more John Urschel.
RE: RE: I think heís Troy Aikman 2.0  
Milton : 2/11/2018 9:35 am : link
In comment 13828988 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13828981 The_Boss said:


Quote:


With regards to mechanics, arm strength, and pinpoint accuracy. Heís my guy.

ithink heís more Chris Borland 2.0. But maybe heís more John Urschel.
I'll bet you Rosen's career lasts longer than Barkley's.
RE: Tim Couch  
Mike in NY : 2/11/2018 9:49 am : link
In comment 13828963 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
played in a Fun-N-Gun Hal Mumme offense. He had below average arm talent and did not have to read defenses. Rosen plays in a pro-style offense, has excellent arm talent and accuracy, and has to read the entire field. No comparison.

Ryan Leaf ? Come on...


Iíd be happy to eat crow if the Giants draft Rosen, but what I have watched of him I just do not see the next Eli Manning. Maybe I am going more negative than I should, but would you spend a 2nd Overall pick on Kerry Collins? Me personally I would rather trade down from #2 and fix other areas then use our 2nd Round pick on Mason Rudolph (I think once the top 3 or 4 rated QBís go off the board you will see the rest drop because teams wonít have as much of a spread in the next tier, but there are some in that group that intrigue me if not forced to play right away).
RE: RE: Tim Couch  
Milton : 2/11/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13828994 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13828963 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:


Quote:


played in a Fun-N-Gun Hal Mumme offense. He had below average arm talent and did not have to read defenses. Rosen plays in a pro-style offense, has excellent arm talent and accuracy, and has to read the entire field. No comparison.

Ryan Leaf ? Come on...



Iíd be happy to eat crow if the Giants draft Rosen, but what I have watched of him I just do not see the next Eli Manning. Maybe I am going more negative than I should, but would you spend a 2nd Overall pick on Kerry Collins?
Kerry Collins is a new one.

Would you spend a 2nd overall pick on Tom Brady? Would you spend a second overall pick on Ryan Leaf? Would you spend a second overall pick on Troy Aikman? Would you spend a second overall pick on Jay Cutler? Would you spend a second overall pick on Trent Green? Would you spend a second overall pick on Matt Ryan? Would you spend a second overall pick on Jeff George? Would you spend a second overall pick on the next Joe Namath, the next Jim Plunkett, the next Clark Kent, the next Gal Gadot, the next David Bowie???

"I hear everybody that you know is more relevant than everybody that I know" - ( New Window )
He reminds me of Eli  
jeff57 : 2/11/2018 10:38 am : link
When he came out.
RE: He reminds me of Eli  
Milton : 2/11/2018 10:55 am : link
In comment 13829010 jeff57 said:
Quote:
When he came out.
It was just a commercial for crying out loud!
He will be the pick  
averagejoe : 2/11/2018 11:05 am : link
I think he is the best QB in draft. Pro ready. Browns gamble on Allen with first pick and Giants select Rosen. Hate it that Eli will still be here playing, Instant QB controversy every week. Unavoidable.
He doesn't have the arm strength/talent  
allstarjim : 2/11/2018 11:06 am : link
of Manning and is just as mobile.

Mental acuity is very good. Footwork, throwing motion, he's good. Throws a nice ball.

Where I struggle with him is when he needs to let it rip and unleash the fastball or power one deep and to the sideline, or see that out route from the far hash, I just don't see the power in his arm.

You can do worse than Rosen. But I still think he's not going to be a guy that can win an MVP and carry a team to the Super Bowl. If you're looking for that guy, and you should be when drafting this high, you'd be better off drafting Barkley.

I think a little less mobile Matt Ryan is his ceiling. Yes, I realize Matt Ryan won an MVP and carried a team to the Super Bowl once...and should have won it. But I think he's more of a little less mobile Ryan Tannehill.
I think Rosen has what Brady and Rodgers have  
Peppers : 2/11/2018 11:10 am : link
There's a sort of brash moxie those two have on the field. Rosen has it.

But of all the the things I like about Rosen (accuracy, release, footwork, intelligence) what I like most about him is how he is under pressure. The way he stands in the pocket against a blitz and delivers an accurate pass. That's what sets him apart from these other prospects, at least in my eyes.

He hasn't been good at winning football games  
AdamBrag : 2/11/2018 11:37 am : link
He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.
RE: He hasn't been good at winning football games  
Milton : 2/11/2018 11:49 am : link
In comment 13829044 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.
Evaluating college prospects was never a strength of Parcells. He preferred Cedric Jones to Terry Glenn, Darion Conner to Rodney Hampton, and wanted nothing to do with Dave Meggett coming out of Towson University. But give him credit, he didn't hold it agains them once he had them under his roof.
Darnold or bust  
McNally's_Nuts : 2/11/2018 12:00 pm : link
.
RE: He hasn't been good at winning football games  
Peppers : 2/11/2018 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13829044 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.


Kellen Moore has the most wins in CFB history. Then there's Colt McCoy.. I believe he's still 2nd in wins.

I think it's important to evaluate the player not the team. You have to be careful when judging a QB by wins and losses.
RE: RE: He hasn't been good at winning football games  
Mike in NY : 2/11/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13829072 Peppers said:
Quote:
In comment 13829044 AdamBrag said:


Quote:


He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.



Kellen Moore has the most wins in CFB history. Then there's Colt McCoy.. I believe he's still 2nd in wins.

I think it's important to evaluate the player not the team. You have to be careful when judging a QB by wins and losses.


Kellen Moore was QB on a team head and shoulders above everyone else in his conference. McCoy had tremendous talent around him. The question for me is does the QB make the players around him better? When I watch Rosen, I do not see that like I did Eli Manning at Ole Miss.
RE: RE: He reminds me of Eli  
jeff57 : 2/11/2018 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13829023 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13829010 jeff57 said:


Quote:


When he came out.

It was just a commercial for crying out loud!


Good one.
RE: RE: He hasn't been good at winning football games  
AdamBrag : 2/11/2018 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13829072 Peppers said:
Quote:
In comment 13829044 AdamBrag said:


Quote:


He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.



Kellen Moore has the most wins in CFB history. Then there's Colt McCoy.. I believe he's still 2nd in wins.

I think it's important to evaluate the player not the team. You have to be careful when judging a QB by wins and losses.


Here's being very thorough. A list of all 1st round QBs selected with winning percentages lower then 60% since 2000.

Pat Mahomes
Ryan Tannehill
Jake Locker
Josh Freeman
Jay Cutler
JP Losman
Kyle Boller
Patrick Ramsey

When the only QB you can point to on this list isn't proven in the NFL and reports were his character is off the charts, it's not a pretty picture.
If Rosen is the pick  
mrvax : 2/11/2018 12:40 pm : link
I hope the Giants put him in the gym for a year, get him a good trainer and load him up with steroids and Hgh.
RE: FWIW, and itís not much except for grins  
djm : 2/11/2018 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13828896 Bill L said:
Quote:
But since people are putting up comps, itís worth noting that in the nfl.com draft analysis that lists pros and cons, they say that his best comp is Trent Green.


That's a load of crap.
RE: Ironically, the have Darnoldís comp  
djm : 2/11/2018 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13828897 Bill L said:
Quote:
As Andrew Luck


More crap.
Think he is accurate and smart but possibly a gamble  
TMS : 2/11/2018 1:24 pm : link
because of injury concerns. Do not see him staying in the NFL for very long if he is banged up again. He will make his connections in NYC and move on very quickly. ELI toughness and reliability he is not. We will be looking for another QB again if that happens.
'So what is your thoughts on him as a prospect?'...  
Torrag : 2/11/2018 1:47 pm : link
With Rosen it's not about 'the football'. It's about the 'other stuff'. His romance with social media and addressing topics that have nothing to do with the game. Playing QB for the NY Giants is a full time job and doesn't include being a SJW. His injury history including concussion, shoulder and knee which resulted in missing 8 of a possible 38 starts(21%) is troubling as it pertains to his durability and gameday availability and that occurred being hit by college not NFL level explosive defenders.

Those are the concerns with Rosen. And they are real. Anyone that simply dismisses them as non-issues when assigning an overall draft grade to the young man has their head in the sand.

A team with a conservative draft philosophy as pertaining to risk with their 1st Round picks, as the Giants track record clearly proves they are, epecially one as valuable to the franchise as the #2 overall pick, will certainly take pause to consider everything before reaching a decision.
I love the people  
jtgiants : 2/11/2018 2:13 pm : link
On the thread downplaying his injury history. You can't. To me, he's not even a thought at #2.
Love his romance  
XBRONX : 2/11/2018 2:18 pm : link
with social media.
RE: RE: RE: He hasn't been good at winning football games  
Peppers : 2/11/2018 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13829081 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13829072 Peppers said:


Quote:


In comment 13829044 AdamBrag said:


Quote:


He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.



Kellen Moore has the most wins in CFB history. Then there's Colt McCoy.. I believe he's still 2nd in wins.

I think it's important to evaluate the player not the team. You have to be careful when judging a QB by wins and losses.



Kellen Moore was QB on a team head and shoulders above everyone else in his conference. McCoy had tremendous talent around him. The question for me is does the QB make the players around him better? When I watch Rosen, I do not see that like I did Eli Manning at Ole Miss.


Thats not true. TCU was apart of the WAC at the time and they were a top 5 team when Moore/Boise st beat them. Nevada was ranked in the top 15 at one point. They also beat Oregon, VTech and Georgia in season openers while he was there.

RE: RE: RE: He hasn't been good at winning football games  
Peppers : 2/11/2018 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13829091 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
In comment 13829072 Peppers said:


Quote:


In comment 13829044 AdamBrag said:


Quote:


He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.



Kellen Moore has the most wins in CFB history. Then there's Colt McCoy.. I believe he's still 2nd in wins.

I think it's important to evaluate the player not the team. You have to be careful when judging a QB by wins and losses.



Here's being very thorough. A list of all 1st round QBs selected with winning percentages lower then 60% since 2000.

Pat Mahomes
Ryan Tannehill
Jake Locker
Josh Freeman
Jay Cutler
JP Losman
Kyle Boller
Patrick Ramsey

When the only QB you can point to on this list isn't proven in the NFL and reports were his character is off the charts, it's not a pretty picture.


And Vince Young, Matt Linehart, Tim Tebow? Kellen Moore, Colt McCoy, David Green..

You can make that case either way which leads me to my point, evaluate the player not the team.
I also read that he is an extremely well-like teammate  
SomeFan : 2/11/2018 2:32 pm : link
so his attitude is not a concern to me.
College Wins/Losses  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 2/11/2018 2:32 pm : link
Phil Simms was 1-10 his senior year, IIRC. He did okay in the NFL.
How many games did he win?  
est1986 : 2/11/2018 2:33 pm : link
That + Injury history concerns me. But other than that, he looks like a hell of a passer. Good release and accurate. Any QB will be served justice if they sat behind Eli one year or more before starting, but especially Rosen IMO. I prefer Darnold but would not be mad if the Giants went with Rosen (or Mayfield for the record).
RE: 'So what is your thoughts on him as a prospect?'...  
Peppers : 2/11/2018 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13829140 Torrag said:
Quote:
With Rosen it's not about 'the football'. It's about the 'other stuff'. His romance with social media and addressing topics that have nothing to do with the game. Playing QB for the NY Giants is a full time job and doesn't include being a SJW. His injury history including concussion, shoulder and knee which resulted in missing 8 of a possible 38 starts(21%) is troubling as it pertains to his durability and gameday availability and that occurred being hit by college not NFL level explosive defenders.

Those are the concerns with Rosen. And they are real. Anyone that simply dismisses them as non-issues when assigning an overall draft grade to the young man has their head in the sand.

A team with a conservative draft philosophy as pertaining to risk with their 1st Round picks, as the Giants track record clearly proves they are, epecially one as valuable to the franchise as the #2 overall pick, will certainly take pause to consider everything before reaching a decision.


This is a good post. Well said.

I'm a little worried he's too opinionated for the position and for the NY media market. The injuries are cause of concern. . But he will mature and there is no clean prospect so keeping that within perspective I think he's worth the risk especially when you consider the possible ROI.
RE: RE: 'So what is your thoughts on him as a prospect?'...  
Milton : 2/11/2018 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13829181 Peppers said:
Quote:
I'm a little worried he's too opinionated for the position and for the NY media market.
His opinions are well thought out and consistent with the NYC market. The QBs are worry about when it comes to NYC and its media are Mayfield and Allen, not Rosen and Darnold.
I've said  
Giantfootball025 : 2/11/2018 2:57 pm : link
Rosen is the best QB in this class. I don't think it's very close with Darnold in terms of mechanics. Darnold might have more upside, but that's a big gamble when taking a franchise QB. If Rosen had no injury history or off field concerns (which I don't agree there are any) he'd be clear cut #1. With that said he does have a serious injury history and that scares the hell out of me. I want Barkley or a trade back for Nelson. But, the closer we come to draft day the more I think Rosen is going to be the pick. He fits the mold of what the Shurmer and the Giants Organization would look for in a QB. And we may not ever get the opportunity to take a franchise QB after this year for a long time.
Something to consider while looking at his record  
Peppers : 2/11/2018 3:01 pm : link
I haven't seen it mentioned yet but UCLAs defense gave up 37 points per game (ranked 116) and 484 yards per game (ranked 122) in 2017.

RE: RE: RE: 'So what is your thoughts on him as a prospect?'...  
Peppers : 2/11/2018 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13829188 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13829181 Peppers said:


Quote:


I'm a little worried he's too opinionated for the position and for the NY media market.

His opinions are well thought out and consistent with the NYC market. The QBs are worry about when it comes to NYC and its media are Mayfield and Allen, not Rosen and Darnold.


Consistent with the market? I'm not understanding that..

He's a little too opinionated. Rosen has already attracted national media attention with his opinion a few times. We would want him to attract it with his play, not his words or his hats.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 'So what is your thoughts on him as a prospect?'...  
Milton : 2/11/2018 3:36 pm : link
In comment 13829203 Peppers said:
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In comment 13829188 Milton said:


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In comment 13829181 Peppers said:


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I'm a little worried he's too opinionated for the position and for the NY media market.

His opinions are well thought out and consistent with the NYC market. The QBs are worry about when it comes to NYC and its media are Mayfield and Allen, not Rosen and Darnold.



Consistent with the market? I'm not understanding that..
His opinions may not go over as well in Ohio as they do in NYC. That being said, he's a smart guy who is as coachable off the field as he is on the field, and I'm confident he would avoid posting/saying anything that would reflect poorly on the Giants organization or alienate their fanbase.
RE: He ainít Brady or Manning  
Section331 : 2/11/2018 3:48 pm : link
In comment 13828895 Bill L said:
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That is a silly statement, as no one would have predicted that Brady or Manning would be among the greatest QBís ever when they were coming out.

Heís the best passer in the draft, and easily the most pro-ready QB. I agree with Rick for the most part, as I think many underrate his athleticism, but the concussions do concern me a bit.
RE: RE: He ainít Brady or Manning  
Bill L : 2/11/2018 4:05 pm : link
In comment 13829216 Section331 said:
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In comment 13828895 Bill L said:


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.



That is a silly statement, as no one would have predicted that Brady or Manning would be among the greatest QBís ever when they were coming out.

Heís the best passer in the draft, and easily the most pro-ready QB. I agree with Rick for the most part, as I think many underrate his athleticism, but the concussions do concern me a bit.
if you would have put the quote in context, it would have shown that I was responding to Miltonís contentin that he *was* Brady or Peyton.
RE: RE: RE: He ainít Brady or Manning  
Milton : 2/11/2018 4:18 pm : link
In comment 13829232 Bill L said:
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In comment 13829216 Section331 said:


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In comment 13828895 Bill L said:


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.



That is a silly statement, as no one would have predicted that Brady or Manning would be among the greatest QBís ever when they were coming out.

if you would have put the quote in context, it would have shown that I was responding to Miltonís contentin that he *was* Brady or Peyton.
If you would have quoted me instead of misrepresenting me, it would have been clear that you were responding to my contention that Brady and Manning were Rosen's upside.
RE: Think he is accurate and smart but possibly a gamble  
GoDeep13 : 2/11/2018 5:25 pm : link
In comment 13829130 TMS said:
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because of injury concerns. Do not see him staying in the NFL for very long if he is banged up again. He will make his connections in NYC and move on very quickly. ELI toughness and reliability he is not. We will be looking for another QB again if that happens.


My feelings as well. Too risky at #2. He comes off as a Me over Team guy and his injuries scare me off. Especially with his dad being a neurosurgeon and him having had multiple concussions. I could see him easily walking away from the game within 5 seasons for health concerns.



RE: RE: Think he is accurate and smart but possibly a gamble  
TMS : 2/11/2018 5:36 pm : link
In comment 13829282 GoDeep13 said:
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In comment 13829130 TMS said:


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because of injury concerns. Do not see him staying in the NFL for very long if he is banged up again. He will make his connections in NYC and move on very quickly. ELI toughness and reliability he is not. We will be looking for another QB again if that happens.



My feelings as well. Too risky at #2. He comes off as a Me over Team guy and his injuries scare me off. Especially with his dad being a neurosurgeon and him having had multiple concussions. I could see him easily walking away from the game within 5 seasons for health concerns.
As an aside Shurmur said he wants players that want to be football players more than anything else. You think that is Rosen ?

RE: RE: RE: Think he is accurate and smart but possibly a gamble  
GoDeep13 : 2/11/2018 7:13 pm : link
In comment 13829290 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 13829282 GoDeep13 said:


Quote:


In comment 13829130 TMS said:


Quote:


because of injury concerns. Do not see him staying in the NFL for very long if he is banged up again. He will make his connections in NYC and move on very quickly. ELI toughness and reliability he is not. We will be looking for another QB again if that happens.



My feelings as well. Too risky at #2. He comes off as a Me over Team guy and his injuries scare me off. Especially with his dad being a neurosurgeon and him having had multiple concussions. I could see him easily walking away from the game within 5 seasons for health concerns.
As an aside Shurmur said he wants players that want to be football players more than anything else. You think that is Rosen ?





No. I think he thinks itíd be a cool job and that heíd make a lot of money. I donít see him being a guy that eats, sleeps, and breathes football. I can see him as the guy that takes his offseason to do his own thing. While many might want to state that there isnít anything wrong with that, Iíd disagree. Yes players are allowed their free time, however, great players in this league are preparing for the NFL season year round. At most they may have close to a month of no football. Other than that they are constantly in and out of the gym and/or private workouts with trainers. I donít see Rosen being that guy. Eli is that guy. Webb is that guy. Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, other top QBs in this league are those guys. I think Darnold, Allen, Jackson, Rudolph, are those guys. I have my reservations on Mayfield as he comes off a bit frat boyish but I think it could go either way with him. As Iíve looked at the top QBs in this draft this is what Iíve come away with.

Josh Rosen - Great poise and technique for the position. Nice snap release with good rotation and placement. No real concerns when it comes to his play style. However he has racked up a number of injuries in a short amount of time and would enter into the league one of the least athletic QBs playing the position (so not only does he get banged up he canít do much to avoid pressure. So heís often a sitting duck.

Sam Darnold - is mostly riding on ďit factorĒ. Heís pretty accurate with a good arm and mobility but he also has the most turnovers of the top QBs as he doesnít do a great job reading coverages. He will also need to work on his release and footwork. He has the biggest bust potential of all the QBs in this draft to me. Being a QB USC doesnít help his case.

Josh Allen - My preferred choice. Perfect QB build. Strongest arm Iíve seen in a long time. Excellent character (could have left Wyoming last year and been a top 10 pick but decided to go back as a thank you to his coaching staff). Lead the first back to back winning seasons for Wyoming in the MWC. His biggest knocks are strength of schedule and accuracy. Wyoming might be the worst recruiting school in the MWC meaning even in an undertalented Conference heís still generally undermanned when it comes to offensive weapons. As for accuracy his biggest thing is taming that big arm of his, which he has been working on and it has been showing.

Mason Rudolph -This Guy should be getting talked about a lot more as a 1st round QB than he is. Heís my 2nd favorite QB in this draft. Great size. Excellent deep ball touch. Very good placement. And despite his size heís nimble enough to avoid tacklers. His biggest problem is his system and the fact that his arm isnít as strong as youíd think it should be with him at his size. That being said Iíd happily take him in the 2nd over all the other QBs in the 1st.

Lamar Jackson - could be the best player in this draft if he ends up in the right situation. He is in a whole other stratosphere as an athlete and has shown continued development and improvement year after year as a QB. He can be an entire offense on his own similar to Cam or Mariota. I donít see the Giants drafting him but he isnít another guy Iíd happily take in the 2nd and develop for a year or two.

In my mental mock, Iím taking Barkley in the first  
Bill L : 2/11/2018 7:19 pm : link
And Jackson in the second. It gives us a fantastic team to win now and I believe that we will, and the QB everyone insists we need from this draft to plan for the future. Win/Win (win)
It's not just Rosen's  
mrvax : 2/11/2018 7:26 pm : link
injury history, he's physically not a NFL player. Sy'56 posted last week that "Rosen has the body of a high school sophomore."

Add the 2 together makes him a huge risk at #2 for me.


Isn't Rosen something like  
Jimmy Googs : 2/11/2018 7:32 pm : link
6'4 and 215+ lbs?

Some time in the gym and few snickers and he'll be the same as Eli, sans the interceptions...
anyone who says  
McNally's_Nuts : 2/11/2018 7:35 pm : link
Darnold has a bigger bust potential than Josh Allen is on bath salts.

Allen has terrible accuracy, looks like Tarzan...plays like Jane. Normally your accuracy doesnít get better at the next level.
RE: anyone who says  
GoDeep13 : 2/11/2018 8:14 pm : link
In comment 13829386 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
Darnold has a bigger bust potential than Josh Allen is on bath salts.

Allen has terrible accuracy, looks like Tarzan...plays like Jane. Normally your accuracy doesnít get better at the next level.


Think how you want. I believe Allen is gonna be a fine QB in the NFL. I see him as a Matthew Stafford type. And Stafford only completed ovr 60% of his passes was his last year where he completed 61% His previous two were 52% and 55% leaving his college percent a 57%.

Staffordís Last 3 seasons have all been over 65%.

Darnold makes too many bad reads and is too careless with the ball for me. I just donít see him being successful.
no thank you  
xtian : 2/12/2018 5:48 pm : link
injury history, questionable frame--too slight, and not a good leader.

pick either allen or darold
Eli Manning was drafted at 220 lbs.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/12/2018 6:07 pm : link
Rosen is 218.

Let's quit that narrative.
No Allen  
Thegratefulhead : 2/12/2018 6:20 pm : link
Josh Allen is Paxton Lynch.
RE: Eli Manning was drafted at 220 lbs.  
TMS : 2/14/2018 10:21 pm : link
In comment 13830309 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Rosen is 218.

Let's quit that narrative.
Highly doubt that Rosen resembles ELI in skill set or desire to play football, Looking for a pay check and will be hurt immediately then milk to a bigger future. Thats why he and his folowers are so wildly loved.
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