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Josh Rosen

CMicks3110 : 2/10/2018 9:47 pm
So what is your thoughts on him as a prospect?
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Damn good QB  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 9:52 pm : link
Good footwork, mechanics and great pocket presence. Plays like a QBuch older then he is. Extremely accurate and throws a beautiful ball. Definitely my favorite player in this draft.
I think he's the best QB prospect  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 9:58 pm : link
Since Luck. Could probably play an NFL game tomorrow. Luckily for the Giants they can have him sit a year while he adds some bulk. Mature beyond his years both on and off the field. Most QB prospects aren't this polished coming out of college at 2?-24 years old. Just a natural passer. Puts it where only his guys can get it. Puts it where his guys can gain a lot of YAC.

There aren't many knocks on him outside of his injury history. Also a knock on him is that he forces a lot of throws. I don't think that will be a problem in the NFL. Especially if he had Odell, Shep, Engram, Ellison, Gallman, King. The only way they had a chance to win in college is if he took risks. He literally had to do it. Very smart kid so I don't believe forcing stuff will be a problem in the NFL.
As if this has not been part of some thread everyday  
djstat : 2/10/2018 9:58 pm : link
Just kidding...I think he has all the tools. His privileged attitude concerns me as does his health. But from a talent stand point i like him.
concerns are: can't stay healthy,  
japanhead : 2/10/2018 9:59 pm : link
multiple head injuries, relative lack of athleticism/mobility, reputation for being unlikeable.
I think he's the best QB prospect  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 9:59 pm : link
Since Luck. Could probably play an NFL game tomorrow. Luckily for the Giants they can have him sit a year while he adds some bulk. Mature beyond his years both on and off the field. Most QB prospects aren't this polished coming out of college at 2?-24 years old. Just a natural passer. Puts it where only his guys can get it. Puts it where his guys can gain a lot of YAC.

There aren't many knocks on him outside of his injury history. Also a knock on him is that he forces a lot of throws. I don't think that will be a problem in the NFL. Especially if he had Odell, Shep, Engram, Ellison, Gallman, King. The only way they had a chance to win in college is if he took risks. He literally had to do it. Very smart kid so I don't believe forcing stuff will be a problem in the NFL.
Rick what do you really think? Lol  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 2/10/2018 10:01 pm : link
I can get why you'd like him but how do you get over the injury history?
RE: concerns are: can't stay healthy,  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 10:01 pm : link
In comment 13828877 japanhead said:
Quote:
multiple head injuries, relative lack of athleticism/mobility, reputation for being unlikeable.


Athleticism & mobility is simply not true. Sure he's not going to take off and run like he's Michael Vick, but his pocket presence is very very good. The reputation for being unlikeable is ridiculous too. I've talked to many of his current and former teammates. Haven't heard a bad word about him.

Even if he was unlikeable I wouldn't care. Aaron Rodgers is a complete fucking dick head and his parents don't even like him. Never heard of it being a problem.
Jint Fan  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 10:02 pm : link
The concussions don't really bother me. He's had two in his 3 years in college. I'd bet that most college players have had 2 concussions throughout their college career.
What rick said  
djm : 2/10/2018 10:04 pm : link
But I might leave out the last line. Until I see how the Giants react to all these qbs and players after the combine and pro days I will reserve my judgement. But I want to love rosen. And I'd bet the Giants do too. And here's the thing, there is no way in hell the Giants find too much wrong with rosen's ability. Rosen is simply a different level of qb compared to the others. He's running an NFL offense and making throws that no one else is making right now. Doesn't mean the others can't reach a higher level in the pros, but that's scouting. No one knows for sure....
RE: Damn good QB  
djm : 2/10/2018 10:05 pm : link
In comment 13828872 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Good footwork, mechanics and great pocket presence. Plays like a QBuch older then he is. Extremely accurate and throws a beautiful ball. Definitely my favorite player in this draft.


When I said what rick said I mean this post.
Djm  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 10:06 pm : link
The craziest part is he's been doing all of this at 18, 19 & 20 years old.
The last thing anyone should care about  
djm : 2/10/2018 10:11 pm : link
Is rosen's alleged aloofness or whatever the hell people are mentioning. Asshole, aloof, unlikeable, whatever... total crap. Irrelevant noise. Whether his heart is in it long haul? Ok fine that's a trait of rumor you'd want to invest further. You want to know if rosen has a burning desire to win but I don't give a shit if he's liked or disliked. And I don't think I let the two concussion thing scare me off completely. Obviously you're going to check and recheck rosen's medicals and make sure he's not a higher risk, etc...

Asshole factor would be tenth on my top ten list of concerns.
Based on cumulative reading...  
Bill L : 2/10/2018 10:13 pm : link
Very good QB. Most pro-ready. Lower ceiling than Darnold but less risk to hit that low ceiling as compared to Darnold. Reportedly is not likeable by coaches or teammates and comes with some maturity concerns. Assuming those can be dealt with or explained away, then the biggest concern is huge concussion history and background/attitude that makes one feel like he could be a Chris Borland redoux. Likely a short shelf-life (even more than your average RB).
RE: Based on cumulative reading...  
Milton : 2/10/2018 10:22 pm : link
In comment 13828892 Bill L said:
Quote:
Lower ceiling than Darnold but less risk to hit that low ceiling as compared to Darnold.
If Tom Brady/Peyton Manning is a lower ceiling, than Darnold's ceiling must be Clark Kent?
He ain’t Brady or Manning  
Bill L : 2/10/2018 10:25 pm : link
.
FWIW, and it’s not much except for grins  
Bill L : 2/10/2018 10:27 pm : link
But since people are putting up comps, it’s worth noting that in the nfl.com draft analysis that lists pros and cons, they say that his best comp is Trent Green.
Ironically, the have Darnold’s comp  
Bill L : 2/10/2018 10:29 pm : link
As Andrew Luck
And you really don’t want to know who they list as  
Bill L : 2/10/2018 10:29 pm : link
Barkely’s Comp
If it wasn't for the concussions  
Jay on the Island : 2/10/2018 10:38 pm : link
he would have been my favorite QB in the draft. I just think that he is too risky to take at 2 but if the Giants doctors feel that the concussions aren't concerning then I would be very happy with either him or Darnold at 2. Rosen is the most NFL ready QB despite only being 20 years old. His talent is undeniable.
RE: He ain’t Brady or Manning  
Milton : 2/10/2018 10:50 pm : link
In comment 13828895 Bill L said:
Quote:
.
Why not? He's a smart, gifted, pocket QB with a strong and accurate arm. At the age of 20 he has already mastered the mechanics of his position, his game will only continue to mature from here, so why shouldn't his ceiling be Brady or Manning? Or Marino or Aikman, for that matter?
The Best  
lax counsel : 2/10/2018 11:09 pm : link
Qb to come out since Luck, and the best qb prospect that will come out for many years to come. There simply aren't any other qbs in the college ranks like him that are coming out over the next few years. If the Giants pass on him, it will be a franchise changing mistake that will lead them in a continuous search for a qb, much like the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins.
RE: RE: concerns are: can't stay healthy,  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/10/2018 11:27 pm : link
In comment 13828880 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 13828877 japanhead said:


Quote:


multiple head injuries, relative lack of athleticism/mobility, reputation for being unlikeable.



Athleticism & mobility is simply not true. Sure he's not going to take off and run like he's Michael Vick, but his pocket presence is very very good. The reputation for being unlikeable is ridiculous too. I've talked to many of his current and former teammates. Haven't heard a bad word about him.

Even if he was unlikeable I wouldn't care. Aaron Rodgers is a complete fucking dick head and his parents don't even like him. Never heard of it being a problem.

Just out of curiosity, in what capacity did you find yourself talking to "many of his current and former teammates"?
Even if he isn't Brady or Manning  
Big Rick in FL : 2/10/2018 11:39 pm : link
That's not really a bad thing. They are two of the top 5 best QBs of all time. If he keeps progressing like he has up until this age then he's going to be a top QB in the NFL. Probably make a bunch of Pro Bowls. I can't think of a single QB who was better then him at his age. I'm only 28 though. So the first draft I really remember paying a lot of attention to was the 2002 NFL Draft. For some reason people keep forgetting he's so young.

Eli basically just became a starter in college at 20 years old. Rosen has been tearing up good teams since he was 18.

If anybody has any questions about him or doesn't like him just go watch the USC game from this past season. USC didn't have a great team this past year yet they are still light years ahead of UCLA. Dude was fucking awesome. Also you could watch the Texas A&M game where he tore up an SEC defense. Once again UCLA was completely overmatched against Stanford. He completed 67% of his passes with 500 yards from scrimmage and 3 TDs & 2 INTs.

A lot of his INTs are because his team was so bad that he had to force throws for them to even have a chance. Basically Rosen's college career is summed up in Ernie Accorsi's scouting report of Eli Manning. Team is overmatched and under coached. Everybody brings up Wyoming sucking, but their receivers had only a 7.6 drop percentage. Which was worse then the USC receivers, but better then Oklahoma. Rosen's was by far the worst out of the top 4 QBs. UCLA had a 13.8 drop percentage. Rosen had a 76.5 adjusted completion percentage which is 2nd among QBs in the draft. Only behind Baker Mayfield. Which is quite impressive as his supporting cast is the worst of the top 4 QBs and he doesn't play in a spread offense like Mayfield does. Dude is just a flat out stud.
A breakdown of rosen  
Jarvis : 2/11/2018 12:12 am : link
This is by Eliot Crist. He has a thread for all the QBs




Rosen discussion with video - ( New Window )
Whoa  
Modus Operandi : 2/11/2018 2:53 am : link
As Barkley's comparison, they have...Barry Sanders?

That's a little kind.
Bill L  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 2/11/2018 6:33 am : link
As for the NFL.com's write-up on Rosen (and the Trent Green comp), they also claim that Rosen has below average arm talent. Watch the film and tell me you agree with that assessment. That makes me disregard everything they say about QBs.

I think Big Rick is right. Rosen has the most talent of the group, is the most advanced in terms of mechanics of any QB coming out in the last ten years at least and is still young. He would be my pick for the Giants. I'm not worried about the injury history, and I am certainly not worried about the character concerns.
He is this generations Ryan Leaf...  
Zepp : 2/11/2018 7:13 am : link
He's a typical immature millennial who has great physical abilities but doesn't have the maturity to do what it takes to win long term.

Stay far, far away.
Who  
jeff57 : 2/11/2018 7:25 am : link
?
RE: He is this generations Ryan Leaf...  
Mike in NY : 2/11/2018 7:41 am : link
In comment 13828948 Zepp said:
Quote:
He's a typical immature millennial who has great physical abilities but doesn't have the maturity to do what it takes to win long term.

Stay far, far away.


I see Tim Couch. A physically gifted QB who can win if he has the talent around him, but he will ultimately be as good as the surrounding players take him. When I looked at Eli Manning in college I saw a QB taking a team that would struggle to be bowl eligible to a top 15 finish.
Tim Couch  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 2/11/2018 7:58 am : link
played in a Fun-N-Gun Hal Mumme offense. He had below average arm talent and did not have to read defenses. Rosen plays in a pro-style offense, has excellent arm talent and accuracy, and has to read the entire field. No comparison.

Ryan Leaf ? Come on...
If he is there at #2 Rosen should be the pick  
Jimmy Googs : 2/11/2018 7:58 am : link
too talented a QB to overemphasize the concussion history.

Don't understate that the other guys are lesser QBs...
I think he’s Troy Aikman 2.0  
The_Boss : 2/11/2018 9:11 am : link
With regards to mechanics, arm strength, and pinpoint accuracy. He’s my guy.
RE: I think he’s Troy Aikman 2.0  
Bill L : 2/11/2018 9:30 am : link
In comment 13828981 The_Boss said:
Quote:
With regards to mechanics, arm strength, and pinpoint accuracy. He’s my guy.
ithink he’s more Chris Borland 2.0. But maybe he’s more John Urschel.
RE: RE: I think he’s Troy Aikman 2.0  
Milton : 2/11/2018 9:35 am : link
In comment 13828988 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13828981 The_Boss said:


Quote:


With regards to mechanics, arm strength, and pinpoint accuracy. He’s my guy.

ithink he’s more Chris Borland 2.0. But maybe he’s more John Urschel.
I'll bet you Rosen's career lasts longer than Barkley's.
RE: Tim Couch  
Mike in NY : 2/11/2018 9:49 am : link
In comment 13828963 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
played in a Fun-N-Gun Hal Mumme offense. He had below average arm talent and did not have to read defenses. Rosen plays in a pro-style offense, has excellent arm talent and accuracy, and has to read the entire field. No comparison.

Ryan Leaf ? Come on...


I’d be happy to eat crow if the Giants draft Rosen, but what I have watched of him I just do not see the next Eli Manning. Maybe I am going more negative than I should, but would you spend a 2nd Overall pick on Kerry Collins? Me personally I would rather trade down from #2 and fix other areas then use our 2nd Round pick on Mason Rudolph (I think once the top 3 or 4 rated QB’s go off the board you will see the rest drop because teams won’t have as much of a spread in the next tier, but there are some in that group that intrigue me if not forced to play right away).
RE: RE: Tim Couch  
Milton : 2/11/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13828994 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13828963 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:


Quote:


played in a Fun-N-Gun Hal Mumme offense. He had below average arm talent and did not have to read defenses. Rosen plays in a pro-style offense, has excellent arm talent and accuracy, and has to read the entire field. No comparison.

Ryan Leaf ? Come on...



I’d be happy to eat crow if the Giants draft Rosen, but what I have watched of him I just do not see the next Eli Manning. Maybe I am going more negative than I should, but would you spend a 2nd Overall pick on Kerry Collins?
Kerry Collins is a new one.

Would you spend a 2nd overall pick on Tom Brady? Would you spend a second overall pick on Ryan Leaf? Would you spend a second overall pick on Troy Aikman? Would you spend a second overall pick on Jay Cutler? Would you spend a second overall pick on Trent Green? Would you spend a second overall pick on Matt Ryan? Would you spend a second overall pick on Jeff George? Would you spend a second overall pick on the next Joe Namath, the next Jim Plunkett, the next Clark Kent, the next Gal Gadot, the next David Bowie???

"I hear everybody that you know is more relevant than everybody that I know" - ( New Window )
He reminds me of Eli  
jeff57 : 2/11/2018 10:38 am : link
When he came out.
RE: He reminds me of Eli  
Milton : 2/11/2018 10:55 am : link
In comment 13829010 jeff57 said:
Quote:
When he came out.
It was just a commercial for crying out loud!
He will be the pick  
averagejoe : 2/11/2018 11:05 am : link
I think he is the best QB in draft. Pro ready. Browns gamble on Allen with first pick and Giants select Rosen. Hate it that Eli will still be here playing, Instant QB controversy every week. Unavoidable.
He doesn't have the arm strength/talent  
allstarjim : 2/11/2018 11:06 am : link
of Manning and is just as mobile.

Mental acuity is very good. Footwork, throwing motion, he's good. Throws a nice ball.

Where I struggle with him is when he needs to let it rip and unleash the fastball or power one deep and to the sideline, or see that out route from the far hash, I just don't see the power in his arm.

You can do worse than Rosen. But I still think he's not going to be a guy that can win an MVP and carry a team to the Super Bowl. If you're looking for that guy, and you should be when drafting this high, you'd be better off drafting Barkley.

I think a little less mobile Matt Ryan is his ceiling. Yes, I realize Matt Ryan won an MVP and carried a team to the Super Bowl once...and should have won it. But I think he's more of a little less mobile Ryan Tannehill.
I think Rosen has what Brady and Rodgers have  
Peppers : 2/11/2018 11:10 am : link
There's a sort of brash moxie those two have on the field. Rosen has it.

But of all the the things I like about Rosen (accuracy, release, footwork, intelligence) what I like most about him is how he is under pressure. The way he stands in the pocket against a blitz and delivers an accurate pass. That's what sets him apart from these other prospects, at least in my eyes.

He hasn't been good at winning football games  
AdamBrag : 2/11/2018 11:37 am : link
He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.
RE: He hasn't been good at winning football games  
Milton : 2/11/2018 11:49 am : link
In comment 13829044 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.
Evaluating college prospects was never a strength of Parcells. He preferred Cedric Jones to Terry Glenn, Darion Conner to Rodney Hampton, and wanted nothing to do with Dave Meggett coming out of Towson University. But give him credit, he didn't hold it agains them once he had them under his roof.
Darnold or bust  
McNally's_Nuts : 2/11/2018 12:00 pm : link
.
RE: He hasn't been good at winning football games  
Peppers : 2/11/2018 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13829044 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.


Kellen Moore has the most wins in CFB history. Then there's Colt McCoy.. I believe he's still 2nd in wins.

I think it's important to evaluate the player not the team. You have to be careful when judging a QB by wins and losses.
RE: RE: He hasn't been good at winning football games  
Mike in NY : 2/11/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13829072 Peppers said:
Quote:
In comment 13829044 AdamBrag said:


Quote:


He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.



Kellen Moore has the most wins in CFB history. Then there's Colt McCoy.. I believe he's still 2nd in wins.

I think it's important to evaluate the player not the team. You have to be careful when judging a QB by wins and losses.


Kellen Moore was QB on a team head and shoulders above everyone else in his conference. McCoy had tremendous talent around him. The question for me is does the QB make the players around him better? When I watch Rosen, I do not see that like I did Eli Manning at Ole Miss.
RE: RE: He reminds me of Eli  
jeff57 : 2/11/2018 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13829023 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13829010 jeff57 said:


Quote:


When he came out.

It was just a commercial for crying out loud!


Good one.
RE: RE: He hasn't been good at winning football games  
AdamBrag : 2/11/2018 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13829072 Peppers said:
Quote:
In comment 13829044 AdamBrag said:


Quote:


He has a very mediocre 17-13 record in college and UCLA had a bunch of NFL draft picks on those teams. This was something Bill Parcells cared a lot about.



Kellen Moore has the most wins in CFB history. Then there's Colt McCoy.. I believe he's still 2nd in wins.

I think it's important to evaluate the player not the team. You have to be careful when judging a QB by wins and losses.


Here's being very thorough. A list of all 1st round QBs selected with winning percentages lower then 60% since 2000.

Pat Mahomes
Ryan Tannehill
Jake Locker
Josh Freeman
Jay Cutler
JP Losman
Kyle Boller
Patrick Ramsey

When the only QB you can point to on this list isn't proven in the NFL and reports were his character is off the charts, it's not a pretty picture.
If Rosen is the pick  
mrvax : 2/11/2018 12:40 pm : link
I hope the Giants put him in the gym for a year, get him a good trainer and load him up with steroids and Hgh.
RE: FWIW, and it’s not much except for grins  
djm : 2/11/2018 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13828896 Bill L said:
Quote:
But since people are putting up comps, it’s worth noting that in the nfl.com draft analysis that lists pros and cons, they say that his best comp is Trent Green.


That's a load of crap.
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