Curious waht our OL experts think about that idea. He's a hot name now that the ESPN report about us wanting to re-sign him came out. And I see a lot of people penciling him into RT, but if they're really considering moving Flowers to RT, would it make sense to put Pugh in at LT? For one, the left tackle market sucks. Two, Pugh seems like the kind of guy who could be serviceable in any spot you put him. If we can get serviceable at LT that would be an upgrade imv.
We could bring back Pugh and Fluker, add Norwell, and our line would be pretty much set, with depth from JJ and Wheeler. But does Pugh fill in to LT that easily?
When injuries hit and Pugh slid outside, my revisionist recollection of the snaps were he was a nice improvement of Flowers.
That being said...the question about him will always be can he stay healthy enough for what he costs? AND if you are definitely sliding him to LT, he's not gonna take a Guard contract.
That's just mind numbingly stupid. Obviously not having one and trying to find one (flowers. Additional picks, free agents) is a lost opportunity cost that's much higher in real dollar terms. Or will be.
Not to mention our w/l ain't too great with that kind of mindset. So what are the ramifications of that even financially. ODB getting injured ...possibly as a result of poor line play? (Abbreviated route tree...and what D does whrnnitcsees that)
I think the reality of our situation is the Giants won't sign both Pugh and Norwell, it would be one or the other.
Also, this is Flowers last year under contract so if he does stay and start NYG will need to replace him next year. A right tackle prospect will need to be added somewhere in this draft as well as Right Guard.
I also want to see us get bigger on the online but what the hell do i know.
Guys like even Pugh will get huge offers, but we have seen his short comings.....
At this moment in time, we do not have one legitimate starting Olman......how freakin' bad is that?
When was that? several times? He played RT for two years and was moved to LG. He may have filled in for Flowers for a game or part of a game, IIRC, but when was he ever tried at LT? I just do not remember it.
I wish he was because he is clearly the best LT on the team (or used to be on the team).
This is a long long way from Syracuse
I think Tom Coughlin and Pat Flaherty knew enough about it so quit wondering.
his best position really would be as the main swing guy, a la grey ruegamer, but given the pathetic state of the OL he maybe has the advantage. if they retain him i hope they at least offer him a contract that accounts for his being a lock to miss between 25 - 33 percent of games in a season.
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and has not held onto the position.
When was that? several times? He played RT for two years and was moved to LG. He may have filled in for Flowers for a game or part of a game, IIRC, but when was he ever tried at LT? I just do not remember it.
I wish he was because he is clearly the best LT on the team (or used to be on the team).
During training camp, practices, and he did play some LT in games.
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In comment 13829894 JonC said:
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and has not held onto the position.
When was that? several times? He played RT for two years and was moved to LG. He may have filled in for Flowers for a game or part of a game, IIRC, but when was he ever tried at LT? I just do not remember it.
I wish he was because he is clearly the best LT on the team (or used to be on the team).
During training camp, practices, and he did play some LT in games.
Let's not confuse ability to play LT in college with meaning he can definitely play it in the NFL.
Two different animals.
This is a long long way from Syracuse
I think Tom Coughlin and Pat Flaherty knew enough about it so quit wondering.
Yep, I'll go with their knowledge before desperate fans.
I'd rather play the 98% great guard only player (norwel?) than an 85% OT + 85% OG swing player in Pugh...even IF flowers is only a 75%. If that makes any sense.
The OP merely asked 'can he' and consensus is yes.
Where did you come up with that? The point is moot. He’s moving on. Olinemen who play through their walk year sign with new teams, as will Richburg & Fluker.
But an accurate analysis of his career reveals that they decided to stay with Beatty his rookie season . The ole “get the five best out there.” Then they drafted Flowers. Then they moved Justin to G. I mean he will get his 60 million dollar deal with somebody . As far as the injuries how about Lane Johnson? Do you think the Eagles are glad they exhibited patience with the injuries and PED suspension?
The Giants will go in huge for somebody else’s G in a few short weeks .
Doesn't suggest any confidence in him as a LT in the NFL.
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In comment 13829894 JonC said:
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and has not held onto the position.
When was that? several times? He played RT for two years and was moved to LG. He may have filled in for Flowers for a game or part of a game, IIRC, but when was he ever tried at LT? I just do not remember it.
I wish he was because he is clearly the best LT on the team (or used to be on the team).
During training camp, practices, and he did play some LT in games.
That's is not a fair assessment. They were not moving Flowers off LT. In camp, he may have moved just to get playing time at LT for the purpose of familiarization. If it was a fair assessment, Pugh would have been LT. He is clearly better than Flowers. Seeing Pugh handle Vonn Miller was pretty interesting.(IMHO)
Moot point since I think Gettleman moves on because of price and injuries.
Every year, fans suggest it and it doesn't happen.
He's been here 5 years, that's plenty of time for the coaches to know if he can or not. They actually forced the issue at RT and he struggled which resulted in the move inside to LG.. And he's a good LG when healthy.
However, all this Pugh talk is moot. He moved out of his apartment and he's excited about free agency. I think it's a safe bet to say he's not coming back.
Ok, you have more and better sources and I have none! I'd believe you over me any day.
Pugh was drafted, playing LT in college and thus far has not shown an ability to play that position in the pros. At the time, it didn't matter because Beatty was the LT. Worse still is that Pugh couldn't stick at RT either. He landed at LG, a position he plays well but he has not stayed healthy during his time here.
Flowers played LT in college, and was drafted to start at RT while Beatty manned LT. The eventual plan was for Flowers to take over at LT in the future. Beatty tears his pec in the weight room and Flowers is thrust into the starting LT tackle job. Over the past few years his inconsistent technique has been exposed by NFL caliber pass rushers. Now the debate is whether Flowers should be moved to RT (which I think won't change anything) or RG.
Pugh and Flowers are two 1st round picks, drafted as OTs who are likely limited to being OGs in the NFL. Reese and Ross should have been fired for this reason alone. I don't know many teams that can survive drafting OTs in the first round that can't play the position in the NFL.
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Pugh has had more opportunities than that, and after five NFL seasons he was unable to win the LT job.
Ok, you have more and better sources and I have none! I'd believe you over me any day.
Like Peppers said more eloquently, you can be sure Pugh had his chances over five seasons. This isn't something that's been missed by multiple professionals, imv.
I said this last year around draft time, til I was blue in the face, that we needed to prepare for this contingency. They did nothing
But as a fan from way out here I cannot simply assume that Flowers earned the starting OLT spot ...over pugh or anyone else, only due to his on the field play, fairly evaluated by the professionals. Maybe. Maybe not.
But as a fan from way out here I cannot simply assume that Flowers earned the starting OLT spot ...over pugh or anyone else, only due to his on the field play, fairly evaluated by the professionals. Maybe. Maybe not.
Well this year it will be a full court press to fix that issue. For the first time I can remember in a long time I anticipate the Giants signing one of the top FA lineman AND drafting 1 with their 2nd overall pick. Could even see a trade develop too.
Offensive line will be the key target for this staff.
Arguing that he didn't get opportunities there is ridiculous.
If someone wants to overpay or thinks they can keep him in a scheme that doesn't require him to hold his blocks for long thus maybe reducing innljury...please feel free to sign him.
Pugh was drafted, playing LT in college and thus far has not shown an ability to play that position in the pros. At the time, it didn't matter because Beatty was the LT. Worse still is that Pugh couldn't stick at RT either. He landed at LG, a position he plays well but he has not stayed healthy during his time here.
Flowers played LT in college, and was drafted to start at RT while Beatty manned LT. The eventual plan was for Flowers to take over at LT in the future. Beatty tears his pec in the weight room and Flowers is thrust into the starting LT tackle job. Over the past few years his inconsistent technique has been exposed by NFL caliber pass rushers. Now the debate is whether Flowers should be moved to RT (which I think won't change anything) or RG.
Pugh and Flowers are two 1st round picks, drafted as OTs who are likely limited to being OGs in the NFL. Reese and Ross should have been fired for this reason alone. I don't know many teams that can survive drafting OTs in the first round that can't play the position in the NFL.
Great post Emil.
Strangely enough, Chad Wheeler, an UDFA, may be our starting left tackle next year. He has better technique thank Flowers now and just needs reps and time in the weight room. I don't see DG spending big on Solder even if NE lets him go. I don't see a LT in draft that is going to be available in round 2 other than Tyrell Crosby that has a chance of manning the position.
So. They simply decided to run with a developmental choice , which is what flowers was... regardless of draft slot.
That's if you totally discount top managemnt meddling.
I believe in the end Norwell will be a much better value, even at a record setting cost.
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Justin f***ing Pugh can NOT play Left Tackle in the NFL
This is a long long way from Syracuse
I think Tom Coughlin and Pat Flaherty knew enough about it so quit wondering.
Yep, I'll go with their knowledge before desperate fans.
Geez. Why? Lol.
He was moved to G from RT. Beatty was Still the LT when he was moved
To RT. Beatty was beyond average. Maybe they should have put Pugh there and tried him but Reese re-signed Beatty. Pugh is literally the only OL Reese drafted who fit his draft slot.
Thank God he's gone.
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Justin f***ing Pugh can NOT play Left Tackle in the NFL
This is a long long way from Syracuse
I think Tom Coughlin and Pat Flaherty knew enough about it so quit wondering.
Yep, I'll go with their knowledge before desperate fans.
You mean the guys that thought Ereck Flowers was the next Tyron Smith, yeah fucking right... If they evaluated OL talent so good why in the hell did they go all in on jags like Geoff Schwartz and David Baas? Yeah I love TC but he did this OL zero justice in his last 3-5 years here in NY. Funny how Reese gets ALL the blame for that part...
You twits can convince yourself of anything to fit your chosen narrative. You badly want to believe that Pugh is a LT. He is not.
Have fun in your fantasy land.
You twits can convince yourself of anything to fit your chosen narrative. You badly want to believe that Pugh is a LT. He is not.
Have fun in your fantasy land.
Flowers would have been the RT if Beatty never got hurt... true
BUT Pugh would have played better at LT than Flowers did... fact
Just because TC went with Flowers at LT over Pugh it does not mean Pugh can’t play LT... Giants can make mistakes too and not keeping Flowers at RT and moving Pugh to LT when Beatty went down, IMO was a mistake...
Anyone who wants to argue that “TC knows best” blah blah blah... is dumb and can’t call it like they see it... any average fan with half a brain that has watched would know Pugh would have been a better LT than Flowers and there is no way in hell Flowers could have been any worse at RT than he is at LT... TC made a mistake, period. Almost everyone would have been a better LT than Flowers, ecspecially Pugh, our best linemen.
Now translating TC’s decision to have Flowers play at LT over Pugh into “Pugh can’t play LT” instead of TC made a mistake with our LT that we are still paying for 3 years later sounds like something out of fantasy land
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In comment 13829944 GeorgeAdams33 said:
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Justin f***ing Pugh can NOT play Left Tackle in the NFL
This is a long long way from Syracuse
I think Tom Coughlin and Pat Flaherty knew enough about it so quit wondering.
Yep, I'll go with their knowledge before desperate fans.
You mean the guys that thought Ereck Flowers was the next Tyron Smith, yeah fucking right... If they evaluated OL talent so good why in the hell did they go all in on jags like Geoff Schwartz and David Baas? Yeah I love TC but he did this OL zero justice in his last 3-5 years here in NY. Funny how Reese gets ALL the blame for that part...
Caughlin dint pick Flowers or sign Schwartz. Reese did. Cuaglinnplayed who the moron gave him. Nice rant though
IIRC, when Pugh was picked, he was like the 4th tackle taken. A lot of draftnics laughed at the Giants for taking 2nd round talent.
Pugh played all 4 years of college at LT.
Beatty was solid in pass pro but weak in the run game. Maybe Pugh could be an upgrade? After the '13 draft, Reese responded to challenges that Pugh was a reach by saying he'd seen all of Pugh's plays and did not see a single time that Pugh didn't succeed because of his alleged short arms. Can't bother to look now but I think Pugh performed better than the 3 tackles taken earlier.
The few times Pugh played LT, he did a solid job and was probably better than Flowers.
Those are the facts. Conjecture is if Pugh could have played LT well for an extended period of time.
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IMO, I'd let Pugh walk and pay Norwell more $ than Pugh will get for obvious reasons. We already have a backup LT.
Both groups need to invest in some new prescription glasses and learn what a head coach does vs. what a GM is supposed to do.
This is where there is revisionist history and not just among fans. Before the draft scouts almost inanimously said Flowers was best suited for RT given his raw ability and power, but lack of technique. Aftsr the draft, the Giants scouting reports and public comments said the same thing. I. OTAs and minicamp he was almost exclusively at RT. There wasnt even much talk of a future at LT. Then Beatty got hurt and they moved him there right off the bat. The Giants altered everything they wrote and said about him, now claiming he was draffed to play LT all along. They haven't looked back since...until maybe (yes, maybe) this off season.
All due respect Matt, the man was here five years, every day is an opportunity. He played LT in practice on more than one occasion, as well as in games, and he was not left at LT. These are the facts, not a position of fans wondering why and arguing semantics.
End of story.
He was a Jerry Reese draft day mistake. He's already failed at tackle, got moved to guard (where he was just OK). To me LT is the A-#1 need
Orlando Brown in the draft is terrific, but he's not a pro LT (I don't think there's anybody in the draft that's good enough to fill the hole, certainly not better than the incumbent - Ereck Flowers).
We need an upgrade, not another "Pugh mistake". The only shot we have is free agent Nate Solder.