I watched part of the Knicks game last night in the hope to watch them lose, but to also see more of Mudiay and Frenchie in the same backcourt.
Instead, we got a ton of Jarrett Jack, Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas.
At times, the lineup was Jack, Hardaway, Lee or Thomas, Beasley and Kanter.
I don't care if Ben Simmons scores 50 points, no need to play Lance Thomas extra minutes.
I don't know if management has or has not told Hornacek that his job depends on the younger players or not, but if they not, they need too.
The worst case scenario is going to happen as the veterans are going to lead the Knicks to 7-9 more wins this season, which will keep us around 9 or 10 in the draft and we will have no idea if the younger players are keepers are not.
It is extremely frustrating!
I think hornacek is delusional thinking jack and thomas give them the best chance to win..
If jack is still starting after the all star break I don't think I will watch until next year..
I think he was told to play the young guys but hornacek is a moron, in Indiana Frank and mudiay played 30 minutes each then all of a sudden he goes back to jack last night..
Hornacek keeps saying he wants to develop and see the young guys and then he does the complete opposite
That is fine but don't go and play jack 20 minutes, for what reason?
And why is Thomas starting?
How? He is playing worse players..
I just think he is horrible
That’s stupid. Need a vet presence to teach and mentor. Min should be limited
He's said a lot.
I'll believe it when I am watching it happen.
And while you would hope he played less of Thomas, Lee and Hardaway- those guys are signed here for the next 2-3 years.
The Hardaway contract is such a killer. I thought he had made nice improvements with Atlanta with shot selection and defense, but they haven't stuck. He's making more than 2x what Lou Williams just got and isn't anywhere close to being as good.
And while you would hope he played less of Thomas, Lee and Hardaway- those guys are signed here for the next 2-3 years.
The Hardaway contract is such a killer. I thought he had made nice improvements with Atlanta with shot selection and defense, but they haven't stuck. He's making more than 2x what Lou Williams just got and isn't anywhere close to being as good.
Thomas is done after next year
Lee has 2 years..
Hardaway needs to go back to what he was doing earlier this year..
Also Knicks will have plenty of cap space after next year
I really have never understood.
Nice guy. Tries hard.
Just ... nope.
"The basics of Perry's plan—which he's drawn up alongside team president Steve Mills—are simple: Enter summer 2019 with a clean cap so the Knicks can reel in a big fish from a group of free agents that could include, among others, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler."
* * *
"But in Perry's view, there's a proper way to go about luring stars. He touched on that Friday.
"I think that in terms of players and free agents looking to the Knicks ... they'll see how this team is coming together in terms of playing hard, trying to support one another," he said. "They sense it. They see where the culture is headed, where we're going. And I think there will be players that will want to be a part of that. Players want to be a part of teams. They want to be a part of families where they're being supported and cared for and developed and all of those things.""
* * *
""It wasn't going to be an overnight turnaround from the beginning," Perry said. "We're going to continue to make moves that are very prudent not only from a talent perspective but [also for] managing the salary cap. We have a plan in place to get there."
We know what that plan is. Will it succeed? Well, we'll have to wait about 16 months, until June 2019, to see."
Link - ( New Window )
They already have 56 million committed to Lee/ Noah/ Hardaway/ Nkitilina. This doesn't account for 2018 or 2019 draft pick which will probably be around 10 mill for both players. You also need to fill out the rest of the roster and pay Kanter if you want to resign him. And then the biggie- KP's max contract which will be about 27 mill for the 2019-2020 season. That brings you to over 100 mill without accounting for any other FA signings and this is being conservative.
They are most likely going to be capped in the 2019 offseason. Now they can always move contracts but there is a cost in doing that.
That was always the big problem with the Hardaway contract. It not only eats in to the 2019 cap space but 2020 too. With the Noah contract on the books, the Knicks were in no position to sign Hardaway to that deal.
Style of play. Doesn't really make highlight reel dunks and the media doesn't really praise perimeter defense. The guy is a terrific player though. In the MVP race...
Lance is non guaranteed, that is 7 million off right there..
Lee will most likely be traded this offseason...
Noah can be stretched if someone is coming, that is another 10..
You are now down to 39 with 105 million cap..
Knicks have plenty of flexibility
maybe he was overshadowed for a while by the Derrick Rose sideshow and the Thibs/front office drama....and then once it finally became his team, they simply weren't any good.
"The basics of Perry's plan—which he's drawn up alongside team president Steve Mills—are simple: Enter summer 2019 with a clean cap so the Knicks can reel in a big fish from a group of free agents that could include, among others, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler."
* * *
"But in Perry's view, there's a proper way to go about luring stars. He touched on that Friday.
"I think that in terms of players and free agents looking to the Knicks ... they'll see how this team is coming together in terms of playing hard, trying to support one another," he said. "They sense it. They see where the culture is headed, where we're going. And I think there will be players that will want to be a part of that. Players want to be a part of teams. They want to be a part of families where they're being supported and cared for and developed and all of those things.""
* * *
""It wasn't going to be an overnight turnaround from the beginning," Perry said. "We're going to continue to make moves that are very prudent not only from a talent perspective but [also for] managing the salary cap. We have a plan in place to get there."
We know what that plan is. Will it succeed? Well, we'll have to wait about 16 months, until June 2019, to see." Link - ( New Window )
Weitzman is one of the best writers covering the Knicks Bleacher Report or not.
no reason? Really? It's a huge risk letting him play 2019/2020 on the qualifying offer.
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no reason? Really? It's a huge risk letting him play 2019/2020 on the qualifying offer.
He would be signed after next year, he is not playing on the qualifying offer...
"The basics of Perry's plan—which he's drawn up alongside team president Steve Mills—are simple: Enter summer 2019 with a clean cap so the Knicks can reel in a big fish from a group of free agents that could include, among others, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler."
* * *
"But in Perry's view, there's a proper way to go about luring stars. He touched on that Friday.
"I think that in terms of players and free agents looking to the Knicks ... they'll see how this team is coming together in terms of playing hard, trying to support one another," he said. "They sense it. They see where the culture is headed, where we're going. And I think there will be players that will want to be a part of that. Players want to be a part of teams. They want to be a part of families where they're being supported and cared for and developed and all of those things.""
* * *
""It wasn't going to be an overnight turnaround from the beginning," Perry said. "We're going to continue to make moves that are very prudent not only from a talent perspective but [also for] managing the salary cap. We have a plan in place to get there."
We know what that plan is. Will it succeed? Well, we'll have to wait about 16 months, until June 2019, to see." Link - ( New Window )
I like that they have a plan, that's a start. Seems as though the plan was never to tank in any situation. This season has fallen apart at the seams so there is no other option, but it sounds like they will not be tanking next season. They are going to try and build a team to win next year to improve the culture and the optics for FA's.
Lance is non guaranteed, that is 7 million off right there..
Lee will most likely be traded this offseason...
Noah can be stretched if someone is coming, that is another 10..
You are now down to 39 with 105 million cap..
Knicks have plenty of flexibility
You are missing some key points here. It won't be easy to trade Lee without taking money back. Definitely the most attainable out of the 3 big contracts though.
You are going to ask Porzingis to play on a qualifying offer that will make him a unrestricted free agent in 2020? Thats insanely risky and there is no way he is agreeing to take a 20 million discount year 1 and risk jeopardizing a max contract with his injury history. Not happening.
You also have to account for other players, draft picks, cap holds. They have to fill out a roster next year and the Knicks have shown zero ability to have financial restraint with free agents.
He plays next year on his 4th year and then he is signed next off-season, no qualifying offer..
He simply waits until free agents are signed, same exact thing spurs did with laehi..
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In comment 13830818 nygiants16 said:
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no reason? Really? It's a huge risk letting him play 2019/2020 on the qualifying offer.
He would be signed after next year, he is not playing on the qualifying offer...
if you sign him after next year you don't gain any flexibility. WTF?
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In comment 13830832 Enzo said:
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In comment 13830818 nygiants16 said:
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no reason? Really? It's a huge risk letting him play 2019/2020 on the qualifying offer.
He would be signed after next year, he is not playing on the qualifying offer...
if you sign him after next year you don't gain any flexibility. WTF?
The year kawhi and kyrie are free agents is after next year, of course they gain flexibility
Some of you get the vapors over 2-3-4 minutes of play. Frank is getting plenty of time here in his rookie year. Mudiay will get plenty as well. Burke doesn't seem to be getting much, but it's possible that he fucking sucks...i know that's hard to accept...but it's a probably conclusion.
In any case, the Knicks are terrible across the board. Horn isn't the best coach out there but I don't think he's this terrible clueless entity some of you insist on parroting around here. He does seem to have the respect of the players and he seems like a good communicator. Ok maybe he should play guys like Burke more minutes and maybe Thomas doesn't belong on an NBA roster let alone the starting lineup, but he does play hard and focuses on defense, something this team needs to emulate.
I'm sure I will get shit on for that post. Have at it.
I never accounted for Lance Thomas- only guaranteed for 1 mill the last year.
Fair point about KP doing a Kawhi but you are still risking him accepting that qualifying offer and becoming an unrestricted FA. And I’m guessing KP wants that extension this summer with the knee injury.
Bottom line is that it’s going to be hard to create 1 max spot in cap space in 2019. Creating 2 spots would be incredibly hard and very costly.
And if you talk to kp and tell him the plan and then say you are going to take care of him he is not going to demand a contract ..
-Why Jack?
-Bad rotations
-Horrible substitutions
-Bad defense
-Oh, great another team going off behind the arc
-We suck at shooting the 3
-Are we actually running plays?
-Where are the young guys?
Every. Flipping. Day. It’s getting old. I might just start checking out the box scores and save myself 2 and half hours every game.
you're right but it still comes with risk. He's then only one year away from unrestricted free agency. The Spurs had the organizational credibility to sell a plan like this to Kawhi. The Knicks are a clownshow until proven otherwise.
Next year's team will include most - if not all - of the following players: KP, Hardaway, Frank, a top 10 pick, Mudiay, Burke, Baker, Dotson, and two second round picks.
There's some legit talent there, and we need someone to maximize it.
And if you talk to kp and tell him the plan and then say you are going to take care of him he is not going to demand a contract ..
Im sure that conversation with KP will go over great...
And you are going to move 50 million in salary between Lee/ Hardaway/ Noah and not take any money back? That's going to cost you 3 future 1st round picks and probably more...
Yup that's exactly what I said.
I said he was ordinary...maybe even a little worse but he's not clueless and complaints about a difference of 3-4-5 minutes doesn't change that. He could just be easing guys like Frank and Mudiay along. Can't speak to Burke but after his first 2 games here he looks like shit, in limited playing time... one thing is certain, Burke can't play D. Surprise.
The bad thing with firing a guy for shits and giggles is that the next guy immediately comes in with a 2 year grace period. So if the next guy sucks we just lost 2 more years.
You want to fire Horn be my guest, but you better bring in an upgrade or we just lost another 2-3 years.
The best plan remains, develop the young guys, we have now, hope to get two blue chip prospects in the 2 upcoming drafts to play along KP and maybe Frenchie and Hardaway. Once, that happens the culture may improve and maybe a FA comes here.
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Seeing as they could easily get rid of 17 million with 2 moves..
And if you talk to kp and tell him the plan and then say you are going to take care of him he is not going to demand a contract ..
Im sure that conversation with KP will go over great...
And you are going to move 50 million in salary between Lee/ Hardaway/ Noah and not take any money back? That's going to cost you 3 future 1st round picks and probably more...
Noah can be stretched if a guy agrees to come, takes off 10 million..
If kp says no money now after you explain to him you need the fle,mobility to go out and add 2 stars I would be shocked, you just promise him that you will max him out..
Plenty of superstars have done this
The best plan remains, develop the young guys, we have now, hope to get two blue chip prospects in the 2 upcoming drafts to play along KP and maybe Frenchie and Hardaway. Once, that happens the culture may improve and maybe a FA comes here.
You have to do both, you have to hit on draft picks and hit in free agency..
If kp comes back healthy Knicks will be appealing..
The reason the 2010 plan was flawed was because they had no one on the roster to attract a free agent
I'm saying we need to make this a more attraction destination or it will be 2010 all over again. The Knicks have to have KP healthy and other young players. In addition, the culture of ineptitude and chaos has to end. Even the Noah situation is not a good optically for the Knicks.
I think player would love to play for the Knicks, but they won't set themselves up to fail for be the media scapegoat. (See Lebron James). If we are going to think back fondly on Melo, at least he embraced it as flawed of a player he was.
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We can never count on free agents coming to the Knicks, it has yet to work out. I hate to say this but as many NBA guys have said, the Knicks are not a top NBA destination. Maybe, that changes in the future, but it has not been since Checketts/Riley/Grunfeld.
The best plan remains, develop the young guys, we have now, hope to get two blue chip prospects in the 2 upcoming drafts to play along KP and maybe Frenchie and Hardaway. Once, that happens the culture may improve and maybe a FA comes here.
You have to do both, you have to hit on draft picks and hit in free agency..
If kp comes back healthy Knicks will be appealing..
The reason the 2010 plan was flawed was because they had no one on the roster to attract a free agent
I think hitting it on the draft, precedes getting a free agent here. Also, the culture of chaos and ineptitude has to change.
One of the reasons that I hate Isola is that his tweets and constant bashing of the Knicks does not help. The players read social media all the time and his stuff sticks.
The draft is a crapshoot. We got very lucky with KP and possibly missed on Frank ( still too early). But that’s how lottery picks go- you need multiple cracks at it. That was Hinkies philosophy and it proved true. Embiid/Simmons/Saric vs Okafor/ Noel / MCW and maybe Futz?
Separate topic--tanking: If you look at the rankings and records of the teams behind the Knicks in w-l, doing better than the eighth slot is tough, and even that is doubtful. Right now they are ninth. The Bulls are the only team in either conference less than 4 games behind the Knicks, and none of the others is winning much except Sacramento. Maybe they fall below Sacramento and get to eighth. I'm still looking at one of the SFs at that slot.
But....but....CULTURE!
I was thinking the same.
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Really hit the skids after being somewhat competitive in the first half of the season.
But....but....CULTURE!
Haha I was listening to the radio yeaterday, nets fans calling in ripping the knicks saying they are not building anything and they stink, Michael Kay of course agreed with them..
I am thinking wait a second the nets suck and they have no draft pick..
At least the knicks will add another lottery pick to kp
This team is terrible now. It wouldn't shock me if they finish out the season with only 3 or 4 more wins. As of today, Dallas and Atlanta are on a 26 win pace and as you said are both well coached. I think it's realistic they finish ahead of the Knicks. Orlando, Memphis, Brooklyn, and Chicago are all on pace for 27 wins or more. We will be neck and neck with all of them, but I would expect Orlando to be the one to finish worse than NY.
I agree that Phoenix and Sacramento are terrible, it's unlikely we catch either of them, but a top 5 pick seems pretty realistic to me.
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should pass by us at some point. I'm hoping the Nets do as well eventually, simply because they have no reason to tank. No way we catch the Suns or Kings. That leaves the Grizz, Magic, Mavs, and Hawks. Maybe we get lucky and 1-2 of them string some random wins together. The Mavs and Hawks are well coached so you never know.
This team is terrible now. It wouldn't shock me if they finish out the season with only 3 or 4 more wins. As of today, Dallas and Atlanta are on a 26 win pace and as you said are both well coached. I think it's realistic they finish ahead of the Knicks. Orlando, Memphis, Brooklyn, and Chicago are all on pace for 27 wins or more. We will be neck and neck with all of them, but I would expect Orlando to be the one to finish worse than NY.
I agree that Phoenix and Sacramento are terrible, it's unlikely we catch either of them, but a top 5 pick seems pretty realistic to me.
Unfortunately, Hornacek is going to continue to play Beasley/Kanter/Hardaway/Jack/Lee and a few others big minutes, which will probably have us win about 5 -7 more games by accient, which will keep us in the in the 8-10 range instead of Top 5. It is why we go nuts each day, because we all know it is destined to happen.
Kristaps Porzingis underwent successful surgery today to repair a torn ACL in his left knee on Tuesday.
The Knicks have not yet provided a timetable for his return, but he is likely looking at between 10-12 months of rehab. Let's hope the Unicorn comes back stronger than ever. He is the only player in NBA history to average at least 1.5 3-pointers and 2.0 blocks over the first three seasons of his NBA career.
I'd guess his true timetable will be 9-12 months. They can be very conservative with KP and he should still get back in 9 months(assuming no setbacks). Plenty of players have come back between 6-9 months, but KP is unique in his body type. I still say November/December of 2018 is when we should see the big guy back on the floor.
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Hornacek is really good.
Yup that's exactly what I said.
I said he was ordinary...maybe even a little worse but he's not clueless and complaints about a difference of 3-4-5 minutes doesn't change that. He could just be easing guys like Frank and Mudiay along. Can't speak to Burke but after his first 2 games here he looks like shit, in limited playing time... one thing is certain, Burke can't play D. Surprise.
I was fucking with you a bit since you were playing devils advocate. But I agree with you that we shouldn't change for changes same. Ideally we'd bring in a guy who can improve kids. That should be our focus. Maximizing potential. I don't trust Hornacek for that.
I'm not the biggest more ardent tank supporter but now? I'm all in. Think good, bad lousy bball nyk thoughts...believe.....
I sure as hell won't shed a tear if when he's wacked but if horn is coach for another year it won't devastate me either.
I sure as hell won't shed a tear if when he's wacked but if horn is coach for another year it won't devastate me either.
My biggest problem with hornacek is he says one thing then does the exact opposite the next game...
The offense he runs is horrible, his defensive philosophy is horrid, it just seems like he makes it up as he goes along...
He talks about players have to earn minutes, yet he plays guys like jack and thomas who do nothing, hardaway is chucking away last night and he leaves him in..
Mudiay or Frank have 1 turnover and they immediately sit...