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Giants have hired an OC

Ray_Ray (NYG) : 2/13/2018 11:02 am
NYG have hired Mike Shula as OC. Official announcement later today. Per sources. #NYG Per Kimberly Jones
Twitter  
SticksandStones : 2/13/2018 11:04 am : link
Twitter link
Twitter - ( New Window )
Carolina connection  
Saos1n : 2/13/2018 11:06 am : link
Not sure why the beats never had him on the radar...
Good  
Mr. Nickels : 2/13/2018 11:06 am : link
hire
Eeek. His offenses, outside of 1 year, have pretty much sucked overall  
guitarguybs12 : 2/13/2018 11:06 am : link
At least he's not calling the plays?
Not a huge fan..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 11:07 am : link
of Shula. I don't think he installed anything innovative in Charlotte.

May be somewhat moot in that Shurmur runs the offense.

Shula has drawn a lot of praise for being a leader and having control of the Panthers offensive unit, so that may be a strength that will come into play.
Those twitter responses are decidedly mixed  
Bill L : 2/13/2018 11:08 am : link
he looks to have a lot of experience as a QB coach, so maybe it is a sign that they will pick a QB #2 and go for a tank job.
From SI..when he got fired  
Ross : 2/13/2018 11:09 am : link
"Aside from the magical 15–1 season that ended in a Super Bowl loss to the Broncos, the Panthers’ offense never ranked in the top-half of the league in yards and never ranked in the top-10 in points. Seven years a professional, Cam Newton continues to have problems with his footwork and missing receivers high. And about the Panthers’ planned evolution of Newton into less of a runner."

Meh
which I woldn'tt have expected from a first year  
Bill L : 2/13/2018 11:09 am : link
coach and GM
Not thrilled  
AcesUp : 2/13/2018 11:09 am : link
They should have had one of the most versatile offenses in the league last year and he couldn't really figure it out.
eh  
Greg from LI : 2/13/2018 11:10 am : link
This is the first offseason move that I'm not particularly positive about. Oh well, hope for the best.
Double duty...  
EliDLINEera : 2/13/2018 11:10 am : link
He will also be QB coach per Tom Rock
RE: From SI..when he got fired  
ajr2456 : 2/13/2018 11:12 am : link
In comment 13830909 Ross said:
Quote:
"Aside from the magical 15–1 season that ended in a Super Bowl loss to the Broncos, the Panthers’ offense never ranked in the top-half of the league in yards and never ranked in the top-10 in points. Seven years a professional, Cam Newton continues to have problems with his footwork and missing receivers high. And about the Panthers’ planned evolution of Newton into less of a runner."

Meh


To be fair they never had many offensive weapons outside of Cam and Olsen.

He did a good job developing Cam. Even David Garrad played well when he wa his QB coach.

There were better options out there but I don’t hate this.
Honestly, I think they screwed themselves  
Bill L : 2/13/2018 11:13 am : link
and maybe even embarrassed themselves, getting strung along. In hindsight, they should have gotten a commitment or moved on to an available person when the pool was larger.
Carolina connection is interesting with Gettleman here  
Chris684 : 2/13/2018 11:14 am : link
I wonder if DG suggested they talk to him when (thanks to lousy NFL rules) Minnesota was able to block a current QB coach from becoming an offensive coordinator.

So if you guessed Shurmur with Shula and Bettcher in December, you win.
Not enthusiastic about this hire.  
yatqb : 2/13/2018 11:14 am : link
But DG knows him well, and Shurmur knows offense, so who am I to judge?
His O wasn't that good in Carolina  
Beer Man : 2/13/2018 11:15 am : link
But this should be Pat Shurmur's O, which he will be responsible for implementing. He did have some success in Jacksonville as the QB coach, so I agree it may be a good thing for Davis Webb'd development and the development of a drafted QB (assuming the team drafts a QB).
This may not be a very good OC gig  
GiantsRage2007 : 2/13/2018 11:17 am : link
Since as OC of the NYG next yr, you won't be calling the plays. so any up-and-coming OC who wants to call plays would probably look elsewhere no?
does the oc really matter  
jintz4life : 2/13/2018 11:17 am : link
when shurmur is calling the plays
I just watched the Broncos vs Panthers SB 2 days ago  
ZogZerg : 2/13/2018 11:18 am : link
and they showed him in the telecast. I thought to myself, "I wonder if he has a job, didn't Carolina just let him go"?

At least he has a lot of experience. I have no idea if he is any good.
Do we think Dorsey comes in  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/13/2018 11:18 am : link
as an Qb coach with him?
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/13/2018 11:19 am : link

Tom Rock
‏Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
10m10 minutes ago

Tom Rock Retweeted Kimberly Jones

Shula will also be the QB coach, I’m told. Double duty.
RE: Not enthusiastic about this hire.  
TheMick7 : 2/13/2018 11:19 am : link
In comment 13830924 yatqb said:
Quote:
But DG knows him well, and Shurmur knows offense, so who am I to judge?


+1
One positive...  
FranknWeezer : 2/13/2018 11:20 am : link
...if our offense turns it around and gets back on track, Shula is less likely to get picked off by another team to be its HC, like, for instance, DeFilippo or Stefanski may have been.
Wow, what a great under the radar hire  
montanagiant : 2/13/2018 11:21 am : link
Nice job Front Office
RE: Do we think Dorsey comes in  
BigBlue4You09 : 2/13/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 13830937 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
as an Qb coach with him?


Shula is the QB coach also
Apple  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/13/2018 11:22 am : link











Tree
I like it..  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 11:23 am : link
experienced OC and QB coach and won't be calling the plays. Now we have 2 guys teaming up to run the offense who have extensive QB and OC backgrounds.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 11:23 am : link
and there's the usual suspect chiming in.

I thought we weren't ever going to fire Reese or hire outside the Giants family???
Keep in mind, The biggest aspect needed out of the OC spot  
montanagiant : 2/13/2018 11:24 am : link
Was coaching the QB's.
I view this as Shurmur is HC/OC
Shula as Asst OC/QB's coach.

He has done well at the QB spot
Good players make good coaches  
joeinpa : 2/13/2018 11:25 am : link
Now, a horrible coach can mess up with good players, but do we think Shula is a horrible coach

Spagnulon was great in 07 after that not so good except 15.

Did he alternate between being good then bad, or was he successful with good talent and not so much with bad. Even good coaches don t win with bad talent
They always seem to have a decent running game  
NoPeanutz : 2/13/2018 11:25 am : link
. That should be a change of pace for us in recent years. Maybe Eli and our talented receivers can parlay that into a passing game.
CBS Sports App  
giantsfan227B : 2/13/2018 11:26 am : link
Literally sent me a story about the former Arizona OC to be a "sleeper candidate" and then no more than 30 minutes later they send me Shula to be hired.

All-righty then.
Is it me  
BP in Delray : 2/13/2018 11:27 am : link
or do the beat writers not break anything first, at all?

Shula  
Sammo85 : 2/13/2018 11:27 am : link
believes in fundamental offense that requires good offensive line play and a strong running game.

Building those two elements in, Shurmur can be able to play his playbook strengths off of involving play action and other concepts.

At first I was kind of down on the news but the more I recall of Shula I am willing to keep an open eye and mind to results.
RE: Not enthusiastic about this hire.  
Beer Man : 2/13/2018 11:28 am : link
In comment 13830924 yatqb said:
Quote:
But DG knows him well, and Shurmur knows offense, so who am I to judge?
Is DG the guy that fired him in Carolina?
I find its hard to judge an OC with a mobile  
Pep22 : 2/13/2018 11:30 am : link
QB like Cam Newton. How much is play calling, how much is Cam's talent taking over? And then how to judge that and relate it to the world's most immobile QB. I guess, like a prior post said, this is essentially Shurmur's expertise/system.
RE: RE: Not enthusiastic about this hire.  
YAJ2112 : 2/13/2018 11:30 am : link
In comment 13830970 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13830924 yatqb said:


Quote:


But DG knows him well, and Shurmur knows offense, so who am I to judge?

Is DG the guy that fired him in Carolina?


No, he was just fired after this season.
RE: Honestly, I think they screwed themselves  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 11:31 am : link
In comment 13830921 Bill L said:
Quote:
and maybe even embarrassed themselves, getting strung along. In hindsight, they should have gotten a commitment or moved on to an available person when the pool was larger.

Who would you have liked them to get a commitment from, Bill? DeFilippo while he was still coaching in the playoffs? Or Stefanski while he's still under contract with the Vikings?

The pool was larger at one point, but it was never really larger for the Giants. The candidates the Giants missed out on wound up not being candidates for the Giants, due to circumstance. DeFilippo clearly favored the opportunity to call his own plays under a defensive HC, where the credit would be his (and thus the chance to ascend to HC would be increased). And obviously the Giants miscalculated by assuming that Stefanski would be allowed to interview if he didn't get the Vikings OC job. But in neither case would they have gotten a commitment by acting sooner.
I think  
giantsfan227B : 2/13/2018 11:31 am : link
they hired him because if you say Shula and Shurman together fast eventually you will mess up so if they screw up during season writers won't know who to blame.
RE: Keep in mind, The biggest aspect needed out of the OC spot  
Optimus-NY : 2/13/2018 11:32 am : link
In comment 13830953 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Was coaching the QB's.
I view this as Shurmur is HC/OC
Shula as Asst OC/QB's coach.

He has done well at the QB spot


I agree. Shula by himself as the OC would concern me, but with Shurmur calling the plays, then I'm ok with it.
What Peanutz alluded to.  
idiotsavant : 2/13/2018 11:33 am : link
Still waiting for that OL guru.

Unless someone more knowledgeable than I am knows better. The HC, OC, OLC - wheres the new OL guru we need?

Don't get me wrong. HC and DC look good. But...
I..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 11:34 am : link
dunno:

Quote:
wheres the new OL guru we need


On top of a Tibeten mountain or taking a pottery class in an Arizona commune??
Charley Casserly  
Big Rick in FL : 2/13/2018 11:34 am : link
Think it's a great hire and here is a tweet from a PFF writer.

Quote:
@PFF_Smith: Creative offense, Panthers were innovative with how to get playmakers the ball rather than conforming players to an offense. Ran an array of run concepts as well. https://t.co/5iIG3LL8Bu
well i like his last name  
UESBLUE : 2/13/2018 11:35 am : link
so theres that.
RE: Shula  
AcidTest : 2/13/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 13830967 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
believes in fundamental offense that requires good offensive line play and a strong running game.

Building those two elements in, Shurmur can be able to play his playbook strengths off of involving play action and other concepts.

At first I was kind of down on the news but the more I recall of Shula I am willing to keep an open eye and mind to results.


Agreed.
If we draft a QB at 2  
Phil in LA : 2/13/2018 11:38 am : link
Will Shula have time for him and the O?
just glad  
GiantsLaw : 2/13/2018 11:39 am : link
it's not Bevell
Shula and the TE.  
Spider56 : 2/13/2018 11:40 am : link
I like the hire ... Greg Olsen was hurt in 2017 but over the previous 4 years he averaged almost 80 catches and over 1000 yards per ... Eli and Evan are going to love this guy.
Obviously this is plan D or E  
David B. : 2/13/2018 11:41 am : link
But given that it's gonna be Shurmer's offense, and Shurmer calling the plays, it's probably OK. I don't know how good Shula is as a QB coach.
Seems like this is more a QB role..  
Sean : 2/13/2018 11:41 am : link
This is Shurmur’s offense. He’s got a good resume. We’ll see. In Carolina he ran the full offense with Rivera a defensive minded HC. It’s different here.
RE: From SI..when he got fired  
WillVAB : 2/13/2018 11:43 am : link
In comment 13830909 Ross said:
Quote:
"Aside from the magical 15–1 season that ended in a Super Bowl loss to the Broncos, the Panthers’ offense never ranked in the top-half of the league in yards and never ranked in the top-10 in points. Seven years a professional, Cam Newton continues to have problems with his footwork and missing receivers high. And about the Panthers’ planned evolution of Newton into less of a runner."

Meh


The issues Cam has are the same that he’s always had. No coach can change his flaws.
RE: Keep in mind, The biggest aspect needed out of the OC spot  
old man : 2/13/2018 11:44 am : link
In comment 13830953 montanagiant said:
[quote] Was coaching the QB's.
I view this as Shurmur is HC/OC
Shula as Asst OC/QB's coach.
+1.
Sean. +1  
Spider56 : 2/13/2018 11:45 am : link
Extend the thought to Eli vs Cam ... 2 QBs who are as far apart in many ways as possible. This is a very different scenario.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/13/2018 11:45 am : link

Paul Schwartz
‏Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
8m8 minutes ago

Ryan Roeder, offensive assistant for Tom Coughlin and Ben McAdoo, will continue in that role on Pat Shurmur's staff. Roeder is a Great Dane - played quarterback at @UAlbanyFootball
Interesting hire...  
bLiTz 2k : 2/13/2018 11:47 am : link
I wonder what his relationships were with the players in Carolina...could attract a guy like Norwell to want to sign here.

(One can dream)
I think I know why  
Joey in VA : 2/13/2018 11:52 am : link
If Shurmur is the QB and passing game guy, it stands to reason we want a running game guy. This isn't going to blow anyone away but look at his running game attempts and yardage rankings from TB and CAR and you can clearly see a guy who is committed to running the football.
Run run run. - ( New Window )
Gettleman  
David B. : 2/13/2018 11:57 am : link
Probably knew him from Caro as well.
RE: From SI..when he got fired  
old man : 2/13/2018 11:58 am : link
In comment 13830909 Ross said:
Quote:
"Aside from the magical 15–1 season that ended in a Super Bowl loss to the Broncos, the Panthers’ offense never ranked in the top-half of the league in yards and never ranked in the top-10 in points. Seven years a professional, Cam Newton continues to have problems with his footwork and missing receivers high. And about the Panthers’ planned evolution of Newton into less of a runner."

Meh

Well....15 years and so does Eli.....And....4 years and Flowers footwork is also still problematic. He'll devise a gameplan..PS will tweek it..but his primary duty will be to get our pick @2 up and running ASAP ; 2020 the latest.
RE: I..  
Reb8thVA : 2/13/2018 11:58 am : link
In comment 13830999 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
dunno:



Quote:


wheres the new OL guru we need



On top of a Tibeten mountain or taking a pottery class in an Arizona commune??


LMAO
RE: I think I know why  
Canton : 2/13/2018 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13831043 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
If Shurmur is the QB and passing game guy, it stands to reason we want a running game guy. This isn't going to blow anyone away but look at his running game attempts and yardage rankings from TB and CAR and you can clearly see a guy who is committed to running the football. Run run run. - ( New Window )


Barkley😏
BBI Front Page update  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/13/2018 12:02 pm : link
with bios on Shula and Roeder.

Reports – Giants Hire Mike Shula as Offensive Coordinator and Quarterbacks Coach - ( New Window )
Reminds me of Gillbride in the sense that he has a ton of experience  
Eric on Li : 2/13/2018 12:03 pm : link
and knows the QB position. Since it will be Shurmur's offense and playcalling it seems like a value to having an experienced set of eyes helping out.
I don't get the negativity  
Emil : 2/13/2018 12:04 pm : link
The Giants pretty much got a proven NFL OC to be the QB Coach, which is going to be pivotal if the organization drafts a QB this year. Not to mention, Davis Webb is on the roster. The combination of Eli, Shurmur, and Shula is a pretty good brain trust for a young QB to lean on and learn from.

I am sure Shurmur would have preferred his QB coach from the Vikings, but the Vikings made sure that would not happen. This is a more than adequate plan B.
Panthers fans  
crackerjack465 : 2/13/2018 12:09 pm : link
are laughing at us on their board. They're also very confused - they all believed that DG wanted to fire Shula for years but Ron Rivera kept him around.
We need to focus on O-Line play.  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/13/2018 12:12 pm : link
Goodwin would've been the perfect hire for OC. Not to mention that he oversaw Top 10 offenses that lit up the scoreboard.
RE: Panthers fans  
jtfuoco : 2/13/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13831081 crackerjack465 said:
Quote:
are laughing at us on their board. They're also very confused - they all believed that DG wanted to fire Shula for years but Ron Rivera kept him around.


As they should be if he was going to be the one calling plays and developing the game plan but since he wont his hire is just as good as anybody else you will find out there at this stage of the game
RE: Panthers fans  
RobCarpenter : 2/13/2018 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13831081 crackerjack465 said:
Quote:
are laughing at us on their board. They're also very confused - they all believed that DG wanted to fire Shula for years but Ron Rivera kept him around.


DG has made it very clear in other comments he's made that he would not interfere with how the head coach decided woh to hire. This was the HC's decision, not DG's.

I haven’t scrolled thru the whole thread  
GiantMike92 : 2/13/2018 12:21 pm : link
but maybe this is our way to hire Stpanski (sp) next year when his contract expires. By leaving one position open
Very interesting  
bluebuddha : 2/13/2018 12:25 pm : link
Shula's experience is in Erhardt-Perkins.
DG must think  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/13/2018 12:28 pm : link
highly of him from their shared time with the Panthers. I'll defer to him.
Old time low key professional.....  
MOOPS : 2/13/2018 12:29 pm : link
who's probably satisfied that a HC position will never be in the cards. Not a threat to Shurmur or to jump ship for another job. Respected by his players by most accounts.
Choices were dwindling, so......
Plus is he won't be calling plays.
I would have liked a more extensive OC search  
twostepgiants : 2/13/2018 12:34 pm : link
As far as I can tell, the Giants didnt even interview anyone. Despite having an opening for 3-4 weeks.

Im not saying I would have hired Bevell but he has the far more impressive resume as an OC. He has coached 11 seasons as an OC on 2 teams. His Vikings team went to the NFC Championship Game and then he went to 2 SBs with Seattle and won one. In Seattle he made playoffs 6 of 7 years, no losing records and won at least 1 playoff game each time. He also is credited with dicovering Russell Wilson. He scouted him, ge argued for drafting him and Carroll called him “Bevells project.” Remember that Seattle had just made a big trade for Matt Flynn who people thought highly of.

Meanwhile, Shula is the worst Head Coach in modern Alabama history. No other HC had less than a .600 winning percentage in the last 70 years. His was .303%.

Bevell interviewed with Indy, Minny & Arizona and didnt land a job so maybe there is something up with him.

I just would have liked some sort of process to getting to an OC. Seems like a panic & settle move.
To me  
Danny Kanell : 2/13/2018 12:34 pm : link
This feels like Plan R.
I dunno but  
idiotsavant : 2/13/2018 12:35 pm : link
As long as it's not 'too many chiefs not enough Indians'.

In other words, you guys keep saying that college level OL players enter the league without basic run blocking techniques.

Well. Somebody has to teach those. Teach them quickly and cohesively in an integrated way within the scheme.

So.. Who...
why so much negative speculation on the hire??  
Rory : 2/13/2018 12:36 pm : link
how can anyone of you rate a coach on a totally different football team with a totally different offensive scheme on what he will do here in NY.

Also whos to say the guy doesn't identify and address his mistakes in his next job. The guy is from a football family with ties to Alabamna and 2 other professional teams.

christ the ink isn't even dry yet and people are already acting like they everything about the guy





RE: Keep in mind, The biggest aspect needed out of the OC spot  
TMS : 2/13/2018 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13830953 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Was coaching the QB's.
I view this as Shurmur is HC/OC
Shula as Asst OC/QB's coach.

He has done well at the QB spot
Spot on description. well done.
twostepgiants  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/13/2018 12:40 pm : link
How the hell do you know who the Giants interviewed or didn't interview?
.  
Ryan in Albany : 2/13/2018 12:40 pm : link
Charley Casserly

Verified account

@CharleyCasserly
1h1 hour ago
More
Excellent move by @Giants in hiring Mike Shula as Offensive Coordinator @panthers @nflnetwork
LOL...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 12:45 pm : link
What???

Quote:
I would have liked a more extensive OC search
twostepgiants : 12:34 pm : link : reply
As far as I can tell, the Giants didnt even interview anyone. Despite having an opening for 3-4 weeks.


Not only would you not have visibility on the interviews, if a HC is already in place, interviews may or may not happen. A lot of time, the hire is an appointee of the HC.

Hiring a coordinator is usually a much different process than hiring a HC.
RE: RE: I think I know why  
TMS : 2/13/2018 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13831063 Canton said:
Quote:
In comment 13831043 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


If Shurmur is the QB and passing game guy, it stands to reason we want a running game guy. This isn't going to blow anyone away but look at his running game attempts and yardage rankings from TB and CAR and you can clearly see a guy who is committed to running the football. Run run run. - ( New Window )



Barkley😏
Makes sense and maybe Shurmur thinks they can develop Webb in a few years. Hope that is the case. Barkley improves everything on offense instantly. Now get some OL
Just sort out the fucking line  
idiotsavant : 2/13/2018 12:50 pm : link
Run the fucking bastard rock and integrate frigging goddamn reality based play action and we be happy.

I don't care of its Ronald...fucking Reagan...or ...McDonald.... Any fucking Ronald.
This could also be a stop gap measure  
T in NJ : 2/13/2018 12:55 pm : link
Stefanski's only under contract for the 2018 season. He very well may be the OC of choice, and Shula is gone after this season.
Exciting hire.  
TMS : 2/13/2018 1:00 pm : link
Shulla and Shumur are the same age (52) and come from a football family on the offensive side of the ball. On paper it looks like a formidable combination. Add ELI and the Mannings into the equation it even gets more interesting. OK DG do your thing with the OL in this draft and FA.
I agree with the sentiment that this feels like  
Chris684 : 2/13/2018 1:00 pm : link
a fall back plan. All we can do is trust those making the decisions and root for the best.

There is a bit of a stink for the NFL and these coaching searches that involve teams competing in the playoffs, but there is so much at stake I really don't know what the answer is.

Depending on how much value you place on your coordinators (think back to the Coughlin days) this offseason has proven that waiting on a candidate you like until the conference title round and beyond comes with risk. The Colts wait out McDaniels only to be left scrambling at the 11th hour. The Giants had to wait out 2 teams, once for their HC hire and twice for their OC only to have Minnesota block a promotion? Doesnt seem right.

The problem I have with this staff is the guy I like most (Bettcher) figures to be only stopping here for a cup of coffee if his unit is as successful as we all hope. That sucks alot.

...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/13/2018 1:05 pm : link

Kimberly Jones
‏Verified account @KimJonesSports
1m1 minute ago

Hearing #NYG announcement on Mike Shula hiring may not happen today. Will happen in next day or two. Not a McDaniels/Colts scenario. (I asked.)
RE: From SI..when he got fired  
Giants1956 : 2/13/2018 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13830909 Ross said:
Quote:
"Aside from the magical 15–1 season that ended in a Super Bowl loss to the Broncos, the Panthers’ offense never ranked in the top-half of the league in yards and never ranked in the top-10 in points. Seven years a professional, Cam Newton continues to have problems with his footwork and missing receivers high. And about the Panthers’ planned evolution of Newton into less of a runner."

Meh


Then it would seem, Ross, that the Panthers' OC wasn't
or isn't the problem. I think Cam has been one of the
most successful 'mobile QB's' BUT, I don't believe that
the 'Running QB' can stay the course. The QB with running
ability might be blessed that their feet can get them
out of trouble. But over time, I think the 'run option'
becomes habitual. A less mobile QB like Eli, usually
develop a sense of 'presence' of what is happening
around him and can often hold out for just enough
for one of his receivers to free up.
Shula - told you so  
Ivan15 : 2/13/2018 1:11 pm : link
.
Shula was in a tough spot last year  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 1:13 pm : link
Carolina drafted McCaffrey too high and he was forced to try to shoe horn him in to the offense.
That said,  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 1:15 pm : link
the moves made this offseason do nothing for me. I'm not excited about where this team is going at all.
RE: That said,  
BrettNYG10 : 2/13/2018 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13831212 Go Terps said:
Quote:
the moves made this offseason do nothing for me. I'm not excited about where this team is going at all.


Who did you want as HC?
He fits what PS  
Dave on the UWS : 2/13/2018 1:22 pm : link
said he was looking for. There is now a very experienced, professional staff in place. That should help with locker room culture.
RE: just glad  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 1:28 pm : link
In comment 13831014 GiantsLaw said:
Quote:
it's not Bevell

Why? Because of a play call that Pete Carroll made?
Ok Terps  
Dave on the UWS : 2/13/2018 1:36 pm : link
Who would you have hired for HC, OC and DC?
Like it  
jeff57 : 2/13/2018 1:36 pm : link
.
RE: Panthers fans  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/13/2018 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13831081 crackerjack465 said:
Quote:
are laughing at us on their board. They're also very confused - they all believed that DG wanted to fire Shula for years but Ron Rivera kept him around.


Oh nooooes, say it ain't so! :o


RE: That said,  
RobCarpenter : 2/13/2018 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13831212 Go Terps said:
Quote:
the moves made this offseason do nothing for me. I'm not excited about where this team is going at all.


What would you have rather seen?
RE: RE: That said,  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13831217 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:

Who did you want as HC?


I think we could have made Belichick happen, and I wonder how much we tried (if at all). The timing for Belichick to make the move was never going to be better. It's complete speculation on my part, but I know if I were Mara I'd move mountains to make it happen.

I don't hate the Shurmur hire; I just wonder on a couple levels how much sense it makes. On one hand we have the owner and GM verbally committing to keeping Eli around while on the other we hired a West Coast offensive coach that calls his own plays. Didn't we just go through that with McAdoo? Haven't we, after 14 years, identified Eli's strengths and weaknesses and noted that the West Coast offense doesn't meet his strengths? If the conviction was to keep Eli why weren't we more focused on bringing Kubiak here, or hiring Norv Turner?

But it's not just the head coach hire. I look at this team right now and I see the results of about 5 years of bad management from ownership down.

- Why does the locker room have so many idiots in it?
- Why was the Eli benching allowed to be such a debacle?
- Why is ownership making public statements on whether or not Eli and Beckham will be here and for how long, and making those statements after Reese was fired and before the new GM was hired?
- Why are we saying anything publicly one way or the other on Eli when we have the 2nd pick in a QB heavy draft?

I don't think the Giants are a particularly well run team. It would have been easy to pin this just on Reese, but I don't feel good about how things have gone since he was fired either.

RE: Those twitter responses are decidedly mixed  
clatterbuck : 2/13/2018 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13830908 Bill L said:
Quote:
he looks to have a lot of experience as a QB coach, so maybe it is a sign that they will pick a QB #2 and go for a tank job.


Geez, I thought you were supposed to go for a tank job in order to get the #2 pick, not after.
RE: RE: RE: That said,  
BrettNYG10 : 2/13/2018 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13831253 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831217 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:



Who did you want as HC?



I think we could have made Belichick happen, and I wonder how much we tried (if at all). The timing for Belichick to make the move was never going to be better. It's complete speculation on my part, but I know if I were Mara I'd move mountains to make it happen.

I don't hate the Shurmur hire; I just wonder on a couple levels how much sense it makes. On one hand we have the owner and GM verbally committing to keeping Eli around while on the other we hired a West Coast offensive coach that calls his own plays. Didn't we just go through that with McAdoo? Haven't we, after 14 years, identified Eli's strengths and weaknesses and noted that the West Coast offense doesn't meet his strengths? If the conviction was to keep Eli why weren't we more focused on bringing Kubiak here, or hiring Norv Turner?

But it's not just the head coach hire. I look at this team right now and I see the results of about 5 years of bad management from ownership down.

- Why does the locker room have so many idiots in it?
- Why was the Eli benching allowed to be such a debacle?
- Why is ownership making public statements on whether or not Eli and Beckham will be here and for how long, and making those statements after Reese was fired and before the new GM was hired?
- Why are we saying anything publicly one way or the other on Eli when we have the 2nd pick in a QB heavy draft?

I don't think the Giants are a particularly well run team. It would have been easy to pin this just on Reese, but I don't feel good about how things have gone since he was fired either.


Interesting. If Belichick wasn't realistic, Shurmur was the guy I wanted.

I agree with you on the public comments regarding Eli. I'm curious to see what's actually done. I'd prefer to see Webb for a few games and then throw the 1st round pick in. Having Eli here makes that impossible, and might delay the appearance of the next QB until 2019. Unless the team really thinks it can win within the next two years with Eli, or doesn't value any of the QBs, of course.

I kind of wanted a GM outside the 'family', but I do like Gettleman. I'm willing to give him a bit of time. But I agree that the issues run a bit deeper and think some band-aids need to be ripped off sooner rather than later.

I'm actually a bit concerned about Collins - I'm not sure if he's going to be an above-average starter, or a guy we can bank on as a force like he was in 2016. I also didn't like his public comments the past couple months, but that's a tertiary concern for me.
RE: Shula was in a tough spot last year  
Pep22 : 2/13/2018 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13831209 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Carolina drafted McCaffrey too high and he was forced to try to shoe horn him in to the offense.


This is an odd/inaccurate comment. CMC had a very good rookie year (80 catches, 9 TDs, 1000 yards from scrimmage).
I don't buy  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/13/2018 2:01 pm : link
that the Giants aren't a well run team. The proof is in the pudding really, and this team has been more successful than most in the past decade.

They've had some struggles of late, and should certainly be criticized for that in the interest of getting better, but overall this is a successful organization.

RE: RE: Shula was in a tough spot last year  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13831266 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 13831209 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Carolina drafted McCaffrey too high and he was forced to try to shoe horn him in to the offense.



This is an odd/inaccurate comment. CMC had a very good rookie year (80 catches, 9 TDs, 1000 yards from scrimmage).


If you watched the Panthers this year (I watched them a ton because I drafted McCaffrey on a couple FF teams), you could see they struggled to incorporate him especially early on. They did a better job of it after they traded Benjamin to Buffalo.
Terps I agree with a lot of your points...  
Chris684 : 2/13/2018 2:04 pm : link
Unfortunately I think John Mara is more involved than he should be.

I’ve felt all along that Shurmur was a pure Mara hire. And I never liked the idea of waiting around for Minnesota and Philly.

No idea about BB, but I like the staff assembled in Arizona (Wilks with Holcomb and McCoy on the offensive side of the ball) more than I like the staff we have here.
suboptimal...  
Dan in the Springs : 2/13/2018 2:14 pm : link
kind of reminds me of Sully being OC to McAdoo. Hopefully not to the same dreadful results.

Would much rather have had Shurmur's right hand man, his first choice. Someone familiar with the offensive scheme and thinking.

Hoping Shula fits right in and has real success.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/13/2018 2:15 pm : link
Shula is a very "meh" hire to me - but the OC hire mattered less to me than the DC hire, which I think we nailed.

Shurmur will have his fingerprints all over the offense and he'll get this thing fixed.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/13/2018 2:17 pm : link
One thing is very clear to me...

The Giants are going to be very committed to running the football in 2018. Which I'm thrilled about.
Don't understand why so many here dislike the move  
est1986 : 2/13/2018 2:28 pm : link
Shurmur, Bettcher, Shula is a lot more inspiring than McAdoo, Spagnuolo, Sullivan...
RE: Not thrilled  
djstat : 2/13/2018 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13830912 AcesUp said:
Quote:
They should have had one of the most versatile offenses in the league last year and he couldn't really figure it out.
injuries, trade of good we and a rookie RB held them back
I don't have a problem with it  
Rflairr : 2/13/2018 2:32 pm : link
Does this help with signing Andrew Norwell? Thats the question
GT  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 2:36 pm : link
you don't think the Giants are a well run organization?
RE: Keep in mind, The biggest aspect needed out of the OC spot  
GiantTuff1 : 2/13/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13830953 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Was coaching the QB's.
I view this as Shurmur is HC/OC
Shula as Asst OC/QB's coach.

He has done well at the QB spot


This is spot on.

When I heard the hire was Shula I made a "huh" face, which isn't exactly pumping fists in the air. But the is Shurmur's offense, Shula will help with the game planning and situational stuff as a second set of eyes, and concentrate on QB development.

If that's what it is then OK, I can live with that.
Somehow  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 2:38 pm : link
Reese and Mara have worked their way into this discussion. We just hired an experienced OC who is a QB guy and is familiar with Gettleman/been a part of championship teams.

He's also not even calling the damn plays. How is this a negative?
RE: Not thrilled  
Rflairr : 2/13/2018 2:40 pm : link
In comment 13830912 AcesUp said:
Quote:
They should have had one of the most versatile offenses in the league last year and he couldn't really figure it out.


Really after Olsen got hurt, where were all these weapons that were supposed to make them so versatile? Slow ass Funchess and who else? lol
RE: RE: RE: That said,  
RobCarpenter : 2/13/2018 2:57 pm : link
In comment 13831253 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831217 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:
Who did you want as HC?

I think we could have made Belichick happen, and I wonder how much we tried (if at all). The timing for Belichick to make the move was never going to be better. It's complete speculation on my part, but I know if I were Mara I'd move mountains to make it happen.



I think that ship has sailed.

Quote:


I don't hate the Shurmur hire; I just wonder on a couple levels how much sense it makes. On one hand we have the owner and GM verbally committing to keeping Eli around while on the other we hired a West Coast offensive coach that calls his own plays. Didn't we just go through that with McAdoo? Haven't we, after 14 years, identified Eli's strengths and weaknesses and noted that the West Coast offense doesn't meet his strengths? If the conviction was to keep Eli why weren't we more focused on bringing Kubiak here, or hiring Norv Turner?



McAdoo was incompetent -- I don't know that you can really make any real conclusions about Eli based on what happened with Eli under McAdoo.

Quote:

But it's not just the head coach hire. I look at this team right now and I see the results of about 5 years of bad management from ownership down.

- Why does the locker room have so many idiots in it?
- Why was the Eli benching allowed to be such a debacle?
- Why is ownership making public statements on whether or not Eli and Beckham will be here and for how long, and making those statements after Reese was fired and before the new GM was hired?
- Why are we saying anything publicly one way or the other on Eli when we have the 2nd pick in a QB heavy draft?

I don't think the Giants are a particularly well run team. It would have been easy to pin this just on Reese, but I don't feel good about how things have gone since he was fired either.



I think the answer to most of your questions is Reese and McAdoo. It was a dysfunctional organization.

I'm willing to give Shurmur and Gettleman a chance. If they don't address the OL this offseason and they trot out the same excuses next year if the offense stalls, that's one thing. But you aren't even giving them a chance to make any improvements.
RE: Don't understand why so many here dislike the move  
Dan in the Springs : 2/13/2018 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13831298 est1986 said:
Quote:
Shurmur, Bettcher, Shula is a lot more inspiring than McAdoo, Spagnuolo, Sullivan...


I'm fine with Shurmur and Bettcher. Shula is the news people like me are reacting to. There are some parallels to Sullivan that I don't like.

Sullivan was relatively new to the offense himself. He was not known as a real offensive innovator but clearly had built his reputation as being a teacher or "coach's coach". His best previous accomplishment was working with Eli, who has talent and is as coachable as they come. Sullivan hadn't had any kind of sustained success in any offensive system as a coordinator. He was someone the Giants were familiar with and who they liked.

Coach Shula is not someone with a string of accomplishments or a reputation as an offensive innovator. His biggest successes were with Cam Newton - a unique and gifted talent at the position. He has not worked with Shurmur before and it can be expected that Shurmur's system will be new to him. His biggest in, the thing that probably got him the job, is that he clearly is well liked in the Giants front office, most likely because of a connection with the current GM.

Lots of parallels. I didn't like the Sully hire. Don't like the Shula one either. Hope Shula turns out exceptional. We all just want the best.
RE: Somehow  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/13/2018 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13831316 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Reese and Mara have worked their way into this discussion. We just hired an experienced OC who is a QB guy and is familiar with Gettleman/been a part of championship teams.

He's also not even calling the damn plays. How is this a negative?


What championship teams!"?
RE: RE: Not thrilled  
AcesUp : 2/13/2018 3:09 pm : link
In comment 13831322 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 13830912 AcesUp said:


Quote:


They should have had one of the most versatile offenses in the league last year and he couldn't really figure it out.



Really after Olsen got hurt, where were all these weapons that were supposed to make them so versatile? Slow ass Funchess and who else? lol


They went into the season with a former MVP at QB, a solid OL and Benjamin, Funchess, Olsen, Samuel, McCaffrey and Stewart. There were weapons. Specifically, there was a lot of talk about how multiple they would be with the additions of the McCaffrey as a RB/WR and Samuel as a WR/RB hybrid. At one point, they had all of these weapons on the field at once but couldn't put these ideas and concepts together. Ironically, it was only after they traded away Benjamin and Olsen went down that he was forced to get more creative and make good on the preseason hype.

I'm not losing sleep over the hire, he's essentially the assistant OC, but he hasn't exactly lit it up whenever he's been given the reigns. Probably a coach's coach and a good leader, so hopefully he's the right guy for the role he's been hired to fill here.
This hire is more about him being a QB whisperer...  
Torrag : 2/13/2018 3:10 pm : link
...it's Shurmur's offense and he is keeping the play calling duties. This choice increases the odds of a QB selection with the #2 pick imo. I doubt it's about Davis Webb.
Good Hire  
PaulN : 2/13/2018 3:10 pm : link
Plenty of experience, nothing new to him, seems like a guy that will work well within the system, I like this hire a lot.
I don't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 3:12 pm : link
understand this post:

Quote:
Lots of parallels. I didn't like the Sully hire. Don't like the Shula one either


Other than you not liking the hires, which has nothing to do with the two coaches, there aren't many parallels between the two.

Sullivan has been both a defensive and offensive assistant, switching from defense to offense when he was with Jax. Shula has been a QB coach, an OC, and a Head Coach.

He had a team while he was OC (led by a defensive HC) go to the SB.

Other than Sully working with QB's, their backgrounds aren't very similar at all. That's really the only parallel.

I've thought that Shula has pretty uninspiring offenses, but he has positives, especially in how he's regarded for leadership. Since he's not there to call plays, leading and development are two things he'll be called on to excel in.
RE: RE: Don't understand why so many here dislike the move  
Mike in NY : 2/13/2018 3:14 pm : link
In comment 13831355 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13831298 est1986 said:


Quote:


Shurmur, Bettcher, Shula is a lot more inspiring than McAdoo, Spagnuolo, Sullivan...



I'm fine with Shurmur and Bettcher. Shula is the news people like me are reacting to. There are some parallels to Sullivan that I don't like.

Sullivan was relatively new to the offense himself. He was not known as a real offensive innovator but clearly had built his reputation as being a teacher or "coach's coach". His best previous accomplishment was working with Eli, who has talent and is as coachable as they come. Sullivan hadn't had any kind of sustained success in any offensive system as a coordinator. He was someone the Giants were familiar with and who they liked.

Coach Shula is not someone with a string of accomplishments or a reputation as an offensive innovator. His biggest successes were with Cam Newton - a unique and gifted talent at the position. He has not worked with Shurmur before and it can be expected that Shurmur's system will be new to him. His biggest in, the thing that probably got him the job, is that he clearly is well liked in the Giants front office, most likely because of a connection with the current GM.

Lots of parallels. I didn't like the Sully hire. Don't like the Shula one either. Hope Shula turns out exceptional. We all just want the best.


Sullivan was dreadful as a coordinator in Tampa. Reading the comments from those outside of the organization, Shula did do a let with what he had in Carolina and devised gameplans based on the talent he had rather than running his scheme come hell or high water. In Cleveland Shurmur had Brad Childress as his OC. This is a similar type of hire. Veteran coach/coordinator with reputation as a teacher who is not going to be looking at Head Coaching offers from other teams.
Think a good #2 offensive guy for a relatively new HC  
TMS : 2/13/2018 3:18 pm : link
like Shurmur. He will do what the HC tells him and there will be no confusion because he knows the game. He will also be valuable to a smart QB like ELI on game plans etc. Good hire.
RE: Terps I agree with a lot of your points...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13831274 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Unfortunately I think John Mara is more involved than he should be.

I’ve felt all along that Shurmur was a pure Mara hire. And I never liked the idea of waiting around for Minnesota and Philly.

No idea about BB, but I like the staff assembled in Arizona (Wilks with Holcomb and McCoy on the offensive side of the ball) more than I like the staff we have here.


What would be the reasoning for feeling any sort of way about Wilks, good or bad?
RE: GT  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13831310 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
you don't think the Giants are a well run organization?


I think they've done some questionable things beyond the obvious errors that are attributed to Reese and McAdoo.

I'm also very concerned about the prospect of picking Darnold AND keeping Eli. To me that speaks to three possible dangers in how this team is run:

1. Poor asset allocation
2. Too much concern with non-football issues, i.e. trying to answer the question of "who will be the face of the franchise after Eli is gone?"
3. The role played by sentimentality in decision making as it regards Eli
This really doesn't apply...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 3:24 pm : link
Quote:
1. Poor asset allocation


Having a rookie QB sit a year behind a vet isn't poor asset allocation.

You consistently operate under the assumption that the cap is very tight as if it is still the 90's. The cap gets easier to manage each year, and rookie contracts make it even easier to do so.
RE: This hire is more about him being a QB whisperer...  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/13/2018 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13831366 Torrag said:
Quote:
...it's Shurmur's offense and he is keeping the play calling duties. This choice increases the odds of a QB selection with the #2 pick imo. I doubt it's about Davis Webb.


Shurmur is a legit QB Whisperer. Shula is a retread who has no record of outstanding QB play.
You really see this as something that's happening?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 3:27 pm : link
Quote:
2. Too much concern with non-football issues, i.e. trying to answer the question of "who will be the face of the franchise after Eli is gone?"



I didn't think it could be argued that planning for the future when your current QB is 37 and going into the last two years of his deal would be seen as a non-football issue.
Jesus..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 3:28 pm : link
you are insufferable:

Quote:
Shula is a retread who has no record of outstanding QB play.


No record?

Quote:
On January 25, 2007, the Jacksonville Jaguars named Shula their quarterbacks coach.[12] Shula oversaw quarterback David Garrard’s development from becoming a full-time starter in 2007 to making the Pro Bowl in 2009. In Shula’s first year with the Jaguars, Garrard ranked third in the NFL with a 102.2 passer rating – an almost 23-point improvement from the previous season – threw an NFL-low three interceptions and established a team record with a 64.0 completion percentage.


No record??

Quote:
On January 21, 2011, the Carolina Panthers named Shula as their quarterbacks coach. In 2011, Shula helped quarterback Cam Newton earn Associated Press Offensive Rookie of the Year after turning in one of the most prolific rookie seasons in NFL history, passing for 4,051 yards and accounting for 35 total touchdowns. In 2012, under Shula's tutelage, Newton improved on his Rookie-of-the-Year quarterback rating from 2011 with an 86.2 mark while rushing for more than 700 yards for a second straight season. Newton's 7,920 passing yards in the 2011-12 season surpassed the previous mark for a player’s first two seasons held by Peyton Manning.


Fuck
RE: This really doesn't apply...  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 3:30 pm : link
In comment 13831387 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:

You consistently operate under the assumption that the cap is very tight as if it is still the 90's. The cap gets easier to manage each year, and rookie contracts make it even easier to do so.


Where did I mention the cap?

It's a waste of a year of productivity from a player good enough to be worthy of the second pick overall. If the publicly stated edict from ownership is to keep Eli then we should be picking a player worthy of that pick that will help a team that has Eli at quarterback...i.e. Barkley.
You shouldn't talk about asset allocation  
Keith : 2/13/2018 3:31 pm : link
without a pretty basic understanding of how the cap works. Giants have plenty of resources to do what they need to do.

The Giants are a very, very well run organization. They've made some mistakes in the very recent past, but that doesn't change the fact that they are very well run. They are deliberate and thought out in their decisions and they give their guys enough of a chance to succeed. Most would have fired TC before 2007, but luckily they didn't. We are very lucky to root for a team so well run.

BB was not a realistic option for the Giants either so get that out of your heads.
Its funny to see GT accuse the Giants of sentimentality  
Keith : 2/13/2018 3:37 pm : link
when you've been doing it for YEARS. I remember a thread a few years ago where you wouldn't trade Eli for anyone in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers included, because of what he meant to the organization. It's all about winning and Eli won twice. Why the shift in thought process?
RE: You really see this as something that's happening?  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13831394 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:


Quote:


2. Too much concern with non-football issues, i.e. trying to answer the question of "who will be the face of the franchise after Eli is gone?"




I didn't think it could be argued that planning for the future when your current QB is 37 and going into the last two years of his deal would be seen as a non-football issue.


You miss my point. I'm wondering how much weight is being put into looking and acting the part the way Eli does. I think it's dangerous to just assume the next guy will or even should be like Eli.
RE: Its funny to see GT accuse the Giants of sentimentality  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13831410 Keith said:
Quote:
when you've been doing it for YEARS. I remember a thread a few years ago where you wouldn't trade Eli for anyone in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers included, because of what he meant to the organization. It's all about winning and Eli won twice. Why the shift in thought process?


I'm not running the team, you vacuous fucking dolt.
I think the ownership comments on personnel..  
Sean : 2/13/2018 3:44 pm : link
are not ideal. I like the Gettleman hire & I’m hopeful about Shurmur, but Gettleman/Shurmur should not be operating under any conditions.

Terps: a month or so ago you said you would be sold that wholesale changes are being made IF Shurmur can pick his own staff. Well, that has turned out to be the case.
So, you say that the Giants shouldn't trade Eli for anyone in the NFL  
Keith : 2/13/2018 3:48 pm : link
because it's about winning and he won for the Giants and now(conveniently after a brutal season, or 2), you complain that they are being sentimental with Eli, but that's ok becasue you aren't running the team. Got it.
RE: I think the ownership comments on personnel..  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13831418 Sean said:
Quote:
are not ideal. I like the Gettleman hire & I’m hopeful about Shurmur, but Gettleman/Shurmur should not be operating under any conditions.

Terps: a month or so ago you said you would be sold that wholesale changes are being made IF Shurmur can pick his own staff. Well, that has turned out to be the case.


They certainly deserve a chance...there's no reason to think either is incompetent or anything. It just doesn't feel like any of this lines up.
'Shurmur is a legit QB Whisperer'...  
Torrag : 2/13/2018 3:55 pm : link
Shurmur as HC isn't going to be the QB coach or have the time to be. He'll have his plate full doing his job...overseeing the entir roster, training, practice and preparation for the season and later the games. Shula is a QB whisperer and has had success developing multiple quality starters and that while not always working with the best raw materials...
RE: RE: RE: That said,  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/13/2018 3:57 pm : link
In comment 13831253 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831217 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:



Who did you want as HC?



I think we could have made Belichick happen, and I wonder how much we tried (if at all). The timing for Belichick to make the move was never going to be better. It's complete speculation on my part, but I know if I were Mara I'd move mountains to make it happen.

I don't hate the Shurmur hire; I just wonder on a couple levels how much sense it makes. On one hand we have the owner and GM verbally committing to keeping Eli around while on the other we hired a West Coast offensive coach that calls his own plays. Didn't we just go through that with McAdoo? Haven't we, after 14 years, identified Eli's strengths and weaknesses and noted that the West Coast offense doesn't meet his strengths? If the conviction was to keep Eli why weren't we more focused on bringing Kubiak here, or hiring Norv Turner?

But it's not just the head coach hire. I look at this team right now and I see the results of about 5 years of bad management from ownership down.

- Why does the locker room have so many idiots in it?
- Why was the Eli benching allowed to be such a debacle?
- Why is ownership making public statements on whether or not Eli and Beckham will be here and for how long, and making those statements after Reese was fired and before the new GM was hired?
- Why are we saying anything publicly one way or the other on Eli when we have the 2nd pick in a QB heavy draft?

I don't think the Giants are a particularly well run team. It would have been easy to pin this just on Reese, but I don't feel good about how things have gone since he was fired either.



We are going to be running a power spread or possibly a zone spread offense.

It's a much more simplified offense that I am sure Eli will thrive in.
But, ultimately Belichick is a very curious case..  
Sean : 2/13/2018 4:01 pm : link
Were conversations had? Compensation discussed? Was it all hot air?

The stars did align it appears.
LOL  
Keith : 2/13/2018 4:03 pm : link
so this is going to be the new narrative thrown around bbi?? What stars were aligned? There were no stars aligned for BB to come to the Giants. Please explain.
God Terps  
Dave on the UWS : 2/13/2018 4:03 pm : link
I asked who you would have hired for those 3spots. What we got was a rant about Belichek, Reese,Mac Mara and years of your displeasure and focusing on Eli and the #2 pick. Typical response. We are now entering a new era we should be looking forward not back. And has been said here 50000 times. The draft is ideally for the future. If they draft a QB its NOT for this year. It's for 2019. Some people can't seem to grasp that.
RE: God Terps  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 4:04 pm : link
In comment 13831443 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
I asked who you would have hired for those 3spots. What we got was a rant about Belichek, Reese,Mac Mara and years of your displeasure and focusing on Eli and the #2 pick. Typical response. We are now entering a new era we should be looking forward not back. And has been said here 50000 times. The draft is ideally for the future. If they draft a QB its NOT for this year. It's for 2019. Some people can't seem to grasp that.


I didn't even read your post. Sorry I didn't reply to it.
GT  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 4:06 pm : link
the giants have had exactly 1 quarterback since 2004 and won 2 super bowls with him. How many franchises can say that other than the Patriots and Steelers? Zero.

They are always in good cap shape. Sure, Reese fucked up the drafts in the latter half of his tenure. But he had a very solid run, and made some pretty championship caliber moves along the way.

GT  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 4:07 pm : link
so basically, anyone else other than Belichick and you would have been disappointed? I might as well dump my fiance and hold out for Jessica Alba. What do you think?
RE: GT  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13831448 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the giants have had exactly 1 quarterback since 2004 and won 2 super bowls with him. How many franchises can say that other than the Patriots and Steelers? Zero.

They are always in good cap shape. Sure, Reese fucked up the drafts in the latter half of his tenure. But he had a very solid run, and made some pretty championship caliber moves along the way.


That has very little to do with the team today.
RE: RE: GT  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13831454 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831448 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


the giants have had exactly 1 quarterback since 2004 and won 2 super bowls with him. How many franchises can say that other than the Patriots and Steelers? Zero.

They are always in good cap shape. Sure, Reese fucked up the drafts in the latter half of his tenure. But he had a very solid run, and made some pretty championship caliber moves along the way.




That has very little to do with the team today.

The team today has an entirely new GM and coaching staff!! What the fuck are you talking about??
RE: RE: You really see this as something that's happening?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13831411 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831394 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:




Quote:


2. Too much concern with non-football issues, i.e. trying to answer the question of "who will be the face of the franchise after Eli is gone?"




I didn't think it could be argued that planning for the future when your current QB is 37 and going into the last two years of his deal would be seen as a non-football issue.



You miss my point. I'm wondering how much weight is being put into looking and acting the part the way Eli does. I think it's dangerous to just assume the next guy will or even should be like Eli.


If it were any team other than the Giants I'd say thats a ridiculous thing to worry about, but in this I think I'm actually in agreement with your idea. I think that's certainly a factor, though how much, who knows.
Ownership, obviously  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 4:10 pm : link
.
RE: Ownership, obviously  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 4:11 pm : link
In comment 13831460 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.

And what exactly is your point? That you don't like the ownership structure and how they run the team?
RE: LOL  
Sean : 2/13/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 13831441 Keith said:
Quote:
so this is going to be the new narrative thrown around bbi?? What stars were aligned? There were no stars aligned for BB to come to the Giants. Please explain.


Lol. You are right. We obviously don’t know, but from the reported stories it can be speculated.
RE: But, ultimately Belichick is a very curious case..  
Reale01 : 2/13/2018 4:22 pm : link
In comment 13831438 Sean said:
Quote:
Were conversations had? Compensation discussed? Was it all hot air?

The stars did align it appears.


There were too many things to overcome (Contract, GM situation, Compensation to Patriots). Especially with Pats in Superbowl. There was interest and there were some talks. Also, the Giants did like Shurmer.
Pat Shurmer's OC is going to be more of a glorified  
Section331 : 2/13/2018 4:29 pm : link
QB coach, and Shula's record there is pretty solid. He got a couple of decent years out of the terrible Jay Fiedler, some pretty good play out of the otherwise ordinary David Garrard, and a terrific rookie campaign by Cam. I'm not going to knock him much for not getting anything out of Jimmy Clausen.

I'm not doing cartwheels over the hire, but since Shurmer is more of the acting OC anyway, I'm not losing sleep over it.
Reale,  
Keith : 2/13/2018 4:30 pm : link
how do you know there was interest and talks? Source?
John Hufnagel wasn’t  
RottenApple : 2/13/2018 4:31 pm : link
available?
RE: RE: God Terps  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 4:33 pm : link
In comment 13831445 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831443 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


I asked who you would have hired for those 3spots. What we got was a rant about Belichek, Reese,Mac Mara and years of your displeasure and focusing on Eli and the #2 pick. Typical response. We are now entering a new era we should be looking forward not back. And has been said here 50000 times. The draft is ideally for the future. If they draft a QB its NOT for this year. It's for 2019. Some people can't seem to grasp that.



I didn't even read your post. Sorry I didn't reply to it.

Ah, the standard GT douche response of "I didn't even read your post." A classic.
RE: Reale,  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 4:36 pm : link
In comment 13831481 Keith said:
Quote:
how do you know there was interest and talks? Source?

He's been trying to pass himself off as an asshat for the last month or so. Ignore it.
RE: RE: GT  
Rong5611 : 2/13/2018 4:43 pm : link

Poor asset allocation? They are going to need a QB after this season. This year is likely Eli's last season with us. If/when he retires or they cut him next year, the cap savings is good according to this board.

It is the #2 pick in the draft. They will get one of the top guys, assuming they like who's there.

A QB would be a wise investment (assuming they like the guys we've been talking about).



In comment 13831382 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831310 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


you don't think the Giants are a well run organization?



I think they've done some questionable things beyond the obvious errors that are attributed to Reese and McAdoo.

I'm also very concerned about the prospect of picking Darnold AND keeping Eli. To me that speaks to three possible dangers in how this team is run:

1. Poor asset allocation
2. Too much concern with non-football issues, i.e. trying to answer the question of "who will be the face of the franchise after Eli is gone?"
3. The role played by sentimentality in decision making as it regards Eli
RE: Ownership, obviously  
GFAN52 : 2/13/2018 4:58 pm : link
In comment 13831460 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


Think if we were the Redskins though. Dan Snyder says hi.

RE: RE: RE: Shula was in a tough spot last year  
ajr2456 : 2/13/2018 5:13 pm : link
In comment 13831273 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831266 Pep22 said:


Quote:


In comment 13831209 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Carolina drafted McCaffrey too high and he was forced to try to shoe horn him in to the offense.



This is an odd/inaccurate comment. CMC had a very good rookie year (80 catches, 9 TDs, 1000 yards from scrimmage).



If you watched the Panthers this year (I watched them a ton because I drafted McCaffrey on a couple FF teams), you could see they struggled to incorporate him especially early on. They did a better job of it after they traded Benjamin to Buffalo.


Terps is right. They basically took a slot receiver top 10
RE: Reale,  
Reale01 : 2/13/2018 5:53 pm : link
In comment 13831481 Keith said:
Quote:
how do you know there was interest and talks? Source?


Can't say ... VERY sorry. I will say that source has to do with BB not Giants.
RE: Reale,  
arcarsenal : 2/13/2018 6:02 pm : link
In comment 13831481 Keith said:
Quote:
how do you know there was interest and talks? Source?


He doesn't. He kept trying to act like he had info on this and kept saying Belichick was going to be the guy.

Well, he's not.
RE: RE: Reale,  
Reale01 : 2/13/2018 6:06 pm : link
In comment 13831488 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13831481 Keith said:


Quote:


how do you know there was interest and talks? Source?


He's been trying to pass himself off as an asshat for the last month or so. Ignore it.


Sorry it did not come to be. Not an asshat at all. Unlike others, I never said "done deal" or "close to done deal". There was interest and some talk. Leave it at that. Most people were understanding. Never made a grand statement and don't even think I started a thread. Sorry for sharing if it bothered you. Anyway, not likely to have any other info since the source was not Giants.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/13/2018 6:06 pm : link
McCaffrey really just didn't run the ball that well. He struggled to find running room often. He's a pretty small guy and can't take the between-tackle pounding. I don't think it was really a lack of creativity it just didn't work well when they tried to use him as a up the gut type of RB.

He did so much damage as a pass catcher - caught 80 balls. It's not like they couldn't figure out how to get him involved - he was very involved.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/13/2018 6:11 pm : link
Also, the idea that he wasn't incorporated early in the year is false. They were trying to use him often from jump street.

He had his 2nd highest rush attempt total of the entire season in Week 1.

Total touches by week:

1: 18
2: 12
3: 13
4: 10
5: 8
6: 14
7: 14
8: 9
9: 20
10: 8
11: 9
12: 11
13: 12
14: 18
15: 11
16: 11
Mike Shula  
XBRONX : 2/13/2018 6:15 pm : link
blows. Glad he wont be calling plays
fwiw  
Bill2 : 2/13/2018 6:17 pm : link
Couple of thoughts:

- Anyone who observes the Patriots over the years and thinks there is minimal risk they would have let Belichek go without compensation or last minute re arranging of his deal is in the Land of Magical Thinking.

- Anyone who thinks Belichek would come to a franchise that may be years away as compared to staring each year with the GOAT at an under market pay package ...and gets to play the green Jets twice instead of the green Eagles twoce a year while he rebuilds has paid attention to BB sentimental side on a few TV clips but not to the real track record...league leading ruthless unsentimental decision making for decades.

- Lost in all this is that the Giants did come away with a coaching staff who does know the inner stitching details and preparation of a whole season. Both the practical realities and the emotional balance required. And have dealt with a wide variety of player personalities and prima donnas...whereas the last group of giant coaches and fo was overwhelmed frozen into stupid by the flexibility practical reality requires.

- Of course free public announcements say nice things about Eli...thats what the media is asking.

the job during a transition...and we are in a transition ...is to:
1) honor merit so team loyalties are aligned with performance

2) Minimize destructive Qb controversies and over attention on the part of fans and the media so the place remains attractive to FA and the coaching staff has the room and time to neither rush nor hold back the uneven development of a new QB

3) Preserve team trade, payroll, draft and cap optionality and confidentiality

Of course Mara says stuff...so what? if it serves the three essential criteria and does not please some internet guys who think the world should be linear and litteral...so what?

Lastly, Go Terps is a great poster. Posts his own mind. Thinks differently and not be the herd. Defends it. Does not resort to personal attacks when attacked personally. A great poster. Its a football discussion site
RE: fwiw  
arcarsenal : 2/13/2018 6:20 pm : link
In comment 13831581 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Couple of thoughts:

- Anyone who observes the Patriots over the years and thinks there is minimal risk they would have let Belichek go without compensation or last minute re arranging of his deal is in the Land of Magical Thinking.

- Anyone who thinks Belichek would come to a franchise that may be years away as compared to staring each year with the GOAT at an under market pay package ...and gets to play the green Jets twice instead of the green Eagles twoce a year while he rebuilds has paid attention to BB sentimental side on a few TV clips but not to the real track record...league leading ruthless unsentimental decision making for decades.

- Lost in all this is that the Giants did come away with a coaching staff who does know the inner stitching details and preparation of a whole season. Both the practical realities and the emotional balance required. And have dealt with a wide variety of player personalities and prima donnas...whereas the last group of giant coaches and fo was overwhelmed frozen into stupid by the flexibility practical reality requires.

- Of course free public announcements say nice things about Eli...thats what the media is asking.

the job during a transition...and we are in a transition ...is to:
1) honor merit so team loyalties are aligned with performance

2) Minimize destructive Qb controversies and over attention on the part of fans and the media so the place remains attractive to FA and the coaching staff has the room and time to neither rush nor hold back the uneven development of a new QB

3) Preserve team trade, payroll, draft and cap optionality and confidentiality

Of course Mara says stuff...so what? if it serves the three essential criteria and does not please some internet guys who think the world should be linear and litteral...so what?

Lastly, Go Terps is a great poster. Posts his own mind. Thinks differently and not be the herd. Defends it. Does not resort to personal attacks when attacked personally. A great poster. Its a football discussion site


You sure about that last part, Bill?

Quote:
RE: Its funny to see GT accuse the Giants of sentimentality

Go Terps : 3:41 pm : link : reply

In comment 13831410 Keith said:

Quote:
when you've been doing it for YEARS. I remember a thread a few years ago where you wouldn't trade Eli for anyone in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers included, because of what he meant to the organization. It's all about winning and Eli won twice. Why the shift in thought process?


I'm not running the team, you vacuous fucking dolt.
arc  
Bill2 : 2/13/2018 6:22 pm : link
naw. I often think its a safety valve more than a football discussion site.

I hope you are doing well arc. Spring Season be starting soon!
.  
arcarsenal : 2/13/2018 6:25 pm : link
Yessir!

Looking forward to some warmer weather.

Always good to see you around - hope you're doing well.
Too many discount how fine the line between success/failure  
Eric on Li : 2/13/2018 6:48 pm : link
I mean, this organization and the eagles essentially went after (and hired) first time head coaches at the same age, from similar coaching trees, who were rumored to be interested in similar assistant coaches, etc. and the results ended up as wildly different as can be imagined. That is not to say the Eagles weren't better run or that they didn't make numerous better personnel decisions over that period of time also, just that at that moment in time you had 2 organizations trying something very similar and it worked out very different in, both year 1 and year 2.

That's not to say that success is a fluke - it's not. Just that finding it is really hard and very few organizations are consistently good at it. Outside of Coughlin (who many wanted fired more often than not) and Parcells this organization hasn't had much success over those 4 decades, so I don't think it should shock anyone that the Mara's don't always make great decisions. They make the best decisions they can based in the moment based on numerous factors and hope it works out - like pretty much everyone else. In this moment of Giants football I think they made logical decisions to hire an experienced head coach and general manager, both with track records fixing specific problems, with both focused on rebuilding the fundamentals of the organization. It may work out or it may not but there's never a magic bullet. Even Belichek.
RE: RE: RE: You really see this as something that's happening?  
BestFeature : 2/13/2018 7:21 pm : link
In comment 13831459 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13831411 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 13831394 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:




Quote:


2. Too much concern with non-football issues, i.e. trying to answer the question of "who will be the face of the franchise after Eli is gone?"




I didn't think it could be argued that planning for the future when your current QB is 37 and going into the last two years of his deal would be seen as a non-football issue.



You miss my point. I'm wondering how much weight is being put into looking and acting the part the way Eli does. I think it's dangerous to just assume the next guy will or even should be like Eli.



If it were any team other than the Giants I'd say thats a ridiculous thing to worry about, but in this I think I'm actually in agreement with your idea. I think that's certainly a factor, though how much, who knows.


I hate to say it and we're one of the best franchises in the league but there's certainly a great deal of pretentiousness with this franchise. It drives me crazy.
LOL  
Keith : 2/13/2018 7:22 pm : link
Even Bill can’t get through a whole Terps post. Clearly you missed that last line.

Either way, we share the same opinion. I have so much respect for terps. I love he he always takes the opposite side of reality and no matter what, will dig his heels in the ground and stick to his guns. Very admirable.

I too am looking forward to the Yankees season, hope it’s an enjoyable one.

Keith(formerly Kmed)
RE: RE: RE: RE: You really see this as something that's happening?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 7:40 pm : link
In comment 13831625 BestFeature said:
Quote:


I hate to say it and we're one of the best franchises in the league but there's certainly a great deal of pretentiousness with this franchise. It drives me crazy.


Every team has their own biases. The cowboys will take anyone regardless of the stuff in their closet. The Packers seem to be suspicious of anyone that they didn't draft themselves. It's not just the Giants. It's just that their particular quirk is that they're a very buttoned up franchise and actively avoid the threat of controversial things and people, and I think a majority of the fanbase likes it that way.
hey Keith  
Bill2 : 2/13/2018 7:48 pm : link
On the Yankees we always seem united.

so looking forward to the next 2-3 seasons. Found some seats at the very first row of the upper decks. My son and I can get there and back plus eat twice for $50 or so. Each time we went last year was a Judge Hr.

The obvious answer?

Go more often. Consider it a sacrifice for all fellow Yank fans on BBI.

take care
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: You really see this as something that's happening?  
BestFeature : 2/13/2018 7:52 pm : link
In comment 13831636 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13831625 BestFeature said:


Quote:




I hate to say it and we're one of the best franchises in the league but there's certainly a great deal of pretentiousness with this franchise. It drives me crazy.



Every team has their own biases. The cowboys will take anyone regardless of the stuff in their closet. The Packers seem to be suspicious of anyone that they didn't draft themselves. It's not just the Giants. It's just that their particular quirk is that they're a very buttoned up franchise and actively avoid the threat of controversial things and people, and I think a majority of the fanbase likes it that way.


Don't get me into the fact that the majority of the fanbase likes it. I'll be honest sometimes I wish our fanbase was like 10% more like the Eagles' fanbase, without the vandelism and horse shit eating.
Terp's comments were fine  
Dave on the UWS : 2/13/2018 7:52 pm : link
(I didn't agree with him but that's fine) I just wanted him to answer my question :)
A friend of mine did remind me of Collins  
BestFeature : 2/13/2018 7:59 pm : link
If they can bring him in with his issues maybe they're not as buttoned up as we say.
Belichick again? You guys can’t let go.  
Ivan15 : 2/13/2018 8:08 pm : link
He was in Palm Beach County last week. He is probably playing in the Honda pro-am next week. Linda lives in Palm Beach County.

He will leave the Patriots and take over the Dolphins.
RE: Jesus..  
DonQuixote : 2/13/2018 8:08 pm : link
In comment 13831397 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
you are insufferable:



Quote:


Shula is a retread who has no record of outstanding QB play.



No record?



Quote:


On January 25, 2007, the Jacksonville Jaguars named Shula their quarterbacks coach.[12] Shula oversaw quarterback David Garrard’s development from becoming a full-time starter in 2007 to making the Pro Bowl in 2009. In Shula’s first year with the Jaguars, Garrard ranked third in the NFL with a 102.2 passer rating – an almost 23-point improvement from the previous season – threw an NFL-low three interceptions and established a team record with a 64.0 completion percentage.



No record??



Quote:


On January 21, 2011, the Carolina Panthers named Shula as their quarterbacks coach. In 2011, Shula helped quarterback Cam Newton earn Associated Press Offensive Rookie of the Year after turning in one of the most prolific rookie seasons in NFL history, passing for 4,051 yards and accounting for 35 total touchdowns. In 2012, under Shula's tutelage, Newton improved on his Rookie-of-the-Year quarterback rating from 2011 with an 86.2 mark while rushing for more than 700 yards for a second straight season. Newton's 7,920 passing yards in the 2011-12 season surpassed the previous mark for a player’s first two seasons held by Peyton Manning.



Fuck


Good post FatMan
The amount of butthurt in this thread  
ThatLimerickGuy : 2/13/2018 9:31 pm : link
For what amounts to the hiring of a QB coach is mind boggling.

Some of you on the day after it was announced that Belichik would coach would bitch that the Giants are poorly run because they didn't reanimate Vince Lombardi to be OC
RE: The amount of butthurt in this thread  
TMS : 2/13/2018 10:27 pm : link
In comment 13831732 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
For what amounts to the hiring of a QB coach is mind boggling.

Some of you on the day after it was announced that Belichik would coach would bitch that the Giants are poorly run because they didn't reanimate Vince Lombardi to be OC
So do you like the hire or not ?
LOL...BBI never fails to entertain me.  
SHO'NUFF : 2/14/2018 1:13 am : link
Essentially, the Giants can never do any wrong because someone starts with a "good hire" post and the lemmings follow suit. We could hire Coach Moron from Podunk High School as our next head coach and you guys will still love it.

ShuuuuuBetcha!
So who's going to be the real QB coach ? ...  
Manny in CA : 2/14/2018 1:54 am : link
If Shula is the "QB whisperer" ?
Reading through this thread...  
EricJ : 2/14/2018 3:00 am : link
I did not see anyone mentioned at all who should have been our obvious choice for OC.... because there was nobody.
It should've been Harold Goodwin  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/14/2018 6:16 am : link
- Has recent, successful OC experience with Arizona
- Offense ranked #9 in 2016 with 418 points, 4th best in team history
- Offense ranked #1 in 2015 and set team records in points (489), TDs (59), TD passes (35), total net yards (6,533), first downs (373) and first downs passing (237)
- Goodwin didn't call plays under Bruce Arians, so he would be working under a similar scenario here under Coach Shurmur
- Goodwin has extensive, successful experience as an O-Line coach with Pittsburgh and Indianapolis
- Goodwin was an Offensive Lineman at Michigan and began his coaching career there as a student assistant and graduate assistant
RE: It should've been Harold Goodwin  
GFAN52 : 2/14/2018 7:10 am : link
In comment 13831831 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
- Has recent, successful OC experience with Arizona
- Offense ranked #9 in 2016 with 418 points, 4th best in team history
- Offense ranked #1 in 2015 and set team records in points (489), TDs (59), TD passes (35), total net yards (6,533), first downs (373) and first downs passing (237)
- Goodwin didn't call plays under Bruce Arians, so he would be working under a similar scenario here under Coach Shurmur
- Goodwin has extensive, successful experience as an O-Line coach with Pittsburgh and Indianapolis
- Goodwin was an Offensive Lineman at Michigan and began his coaching career there as a student assistant and graduate assistant


Shurmur wanted an OC with QB coaching experience.
Talking about Goodwin..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/14/2018 8:28 am : link
is a great example of how things evolve around here.

Emlen posted about Goodwin yesterday, ironically, shortly after I got an alert about Goodwin. Now, since we didn't hire him, he postulates we should have.

And I'm going to guess (accurately) that Emlen had no fucking clue who the guy was before yesterday.

But hey, when working in shots against Mara is someone's MO, they have to work hard at it.

It is much, much easier having the MO of harassing mouth-breathing morons.
I’m sure it’s been said in this thread,  
Simms11 : 2/14/2018 9:27 am : link
but I didn’t want to go through the litany of responses.....anyway, this is going to be Shurmer’s offense with bits of Shula sprinkled in. Shula will orchestrate a plan weekly to attack the next opponent, but it will be Shurmer’s concepts and Shurmer will be calling plays he feels will be successful, not Shula’s scheme. Shula becomes a good hire IMO, because he’s experienced and knows, not only how to put a successful game plan together, but also his ability to work with and develop QBs, as well. Give us an Oline and the offense will start to improve.
RE: .  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/14/2018 10:52 am : link
In comment 13831570 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
McCaffrey really just didn't run the ball that well. He struggled to find running room often. He's a pretty small guy and can't take the between-tackle pounding. I don't think it was really a lack of creativity it just didn't work well when they tried to use him as a up the gut type of RB.

He did so much damage as a pass catcher - caught 80 balls. It's not like they couldn't figure out how to get him involved - he was very involved.


This was the most predictable outcome of McCaffery. He's an updated version of Reggie Bush. Not good enough to be an every-down between the tackles runner, but a great 3rd down/dynamic in the passing game player, along with special teams.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/14/2018 11:00 am : link
In comment 13832112 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13831570 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


McCaffrey really just didn't run the ball that well. He struggled to find running room often. He's a pretty small guy and can't take the between-tackle pounding. I don't think it was really a lack of creativity it just didn't work well when they tried to use him as a up the gut type of RB.

He did so much damage as a pass catcher - caught 80 balls. It's not like they couldn't figure out how to get him involved - he was very involved.



This was the most predictable outcome of McCaffery. He's an updated version of Reggie Bush. Not good enough to be an every-down between the tackles runner, but a great 3rd down/dynamic in the passing game player, along with special teams.


Yeah, he just doesn't have the size to be a guy you pound between the tackles regularly. That's why after Week 1, he barely saw double digit carries the rest of the way and why so many of his touches were coming as receptions.

I actually think CAR did a really good job of getting him involved given his limitations as a runner. He was a big part of their offensive gameplan on a weekly basis and they made a point to get the football in his hands as much as they could.
I don't get all the handwringing (although I probably should by now)  
PatersonPlank : 2/14/2018 11:10 am : link
At this point in the process Shula was about as good a choice as they were going to get. Shurmur wants to call the plays, which right there limits who will come here. At least Shula comes from good stock, if he turns out to be 1/2 of what his dad was we will be ok.
RE: Talking about Goodwin..  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/14/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 13831881 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is a great example of how things evolve around here.

Emlen posted about Goodwin yesterday, ironically, shortly after I got an alert about Goodwin. Now, since we didn't hire him, he postulates we should have.

And I'm going to guess (accurately) that Emlen had no fucking clue who the guy was before yesterday.

But hey, when working in shots against Mara is someone's MO, they have to work hard at it.

It is much, much easier having the MO of harassing mouth-breathing morons.


Fats, You are a major douche and very brave as well, flexing those internet muscles from your mother's basement.
I don't like Shula as the OC  
Jay on the Island : 2/14/2018 12:05 pm : link
but I am happy to have him as the QB coach where he has a proven track record. With that said I don't see much of a reason to be up in arms about the hire. With Shurmur calling the plays Shula is a glorified QB coach. Sure he will handle many of the roles of an OC but Shurmur will be the play caller which had to have affected their options as guys like DeFilippo wanted to go somewhere that would give him play calling responsibilities.

As arc said, the opening at DC was a far more important position to fill and the Giants hit a home run there.
RE: I don't like Shula as the OC  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/14/2018 3:02 pm : link
In comment 13832192 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
but I am happy to have him as the QB coach where he has a proven track record. With that said I don't see much of a reason to be up in arms about the hire. With Shurmur calling the plays Shula is a glorified QB coach. Sure he will handle many of the roles of an OC but Shurmur will be the play caller which had to have affected their options as guys like DeFilippo wanted to go somewhere that would give him play calling responsibilities.

As arc said, the opening at DC was a far more important position to fill and the Giants hit a home run there.


Shula could get hired away next season and Shurmer can get his guy probably at that point. Who knows?
RE: I don't like Shula as the OC  
blueblood : 2/14/2018 3:21 pm : link
In comment 13832192 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
but I am happy to have him as the QB coach where he has a proven track record. With that said I don't see much of a reason to be up in arms about the hire. With Shurmur calling the plays Shula is a glorified QB coach. Sure he will handle many of the roles of an OC but Shurmur will be the play caller which had to have affected their options as guys like DeFilippo wanted to go somewhere that would give him play calling responsibilities.

As arc said, the opening at DC was a far more important position to fill and the Giants hit a home run there.


I think people are making too much about Shula being the OC. Its not going to be his offense and he isnt going to be calling plays.

Apparently he is adept at adding wrinkles into gameplans.

Its very possible he could be OC/QB coach this year, with Stefansk taking over an OC next year, and Shula being QB coach if that plan is still an option.
I have no idea how there could be this much conversation  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/14/2018 6:42 pm : link
or even disagreement about the hire. He's going to be Shurmur's assistant and coffee and doughnuts guy.
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