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Giants have hired an OC

Ray_Ray (NYG) : 2/13/2018 11:02 am
NYG have hired Mike Shula as OC. Official announcement later today. Per sources. #NYG Per Kimberly Jones
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I don't buy  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/13/2018 2:01 pm : link
that the Giants aren't a well run team. The proof is in the pudding really, and this team has been more successful than most in the past decade.

They've had some struggles of late, and should certainly be criticized for that in the interest of getting better, but overall this is a successful organization.

RE: RE: Shula was in a tough spot last year  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13831266 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 13831209 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Carolina drafted McCaffrey too high and he was forced to try to shoe horn him in to the offense.



This is an odd/inaccurate comment. CMC had a very good rookie year (80 catches, 9 TDs, 1000 yards from scrimmage).


If you watched the Panthers this year (I watched them a ton because I drafted McCaffrey on a couple FF teams), you could see they struggled to incorporate him especially early on. They did a better job of it after they traded Benjamin to Buffalo.
Terps I agree with a lot of your points...  
Chris684 : 2/13/2018 2:04 pm : link
Unfortunately I think John Mara is more involved than he should be.

Iíve felt all along that Shurmur was a pure Mara hire. And I never liked the idea of waiting around for Minnesota and Philly.

No idea about BB, but I like the staff assembled in Arizona (Wilks with Holcomb and McCoy on the offensive side of the ball) more than I like the staff we have here.
suboptimal...  
Dan in the Springs : 2/13/2018 2:14 pm : link
kind of reminds me of Sully being OC to McAdoo. Hopefully not to the same dreadful results.

Would much rather have had Shurmur's right hand man, his first choice. Someone familiar with the offensive scheme and thinking.

Hoping Shula fits right in and has real success.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/13/2018 2:15 pm : link
Shula is a very "meh" hire to me - but the OC hire mattered less to me than the DC hire, which I think we nailed.

Shurmur will have his fingerprints all over the offense and he'll get this thing fixed.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/13/2018 2:17 pm : link
One thing is very clear to me...

The Giants are going to be very committed to running the football in 2018. Which I'm thrilled about.
Don't understand why so many here dislike the move  
est1986 : 2/13/2018 2:28 pm : link
Shurmur, Bettcher, Shula is a lot more inspiring than McAdoo, Spagnuolo, Sullivan...
RE: Not thrilled  
djstat : 2/13/2018 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13830912 AcesUp said:
Quote:
They should have had one of the most versatile offenses in the league last year and he couldn't really figure it out.
injuries, trade of good we and a rookie RB held them back
I don't have a problem with it  
Rflairr : 2/13/2018 2:32 pm : link
Does this help with signing Andrew Norwell? Thats the question
GT  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 2:36 pm : link
you don't think the Giants are a well run organization?
RE: Keep in mind, The biggest aspect needed out of the OC spot  
GiantTuff1 : 2/13/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13830953 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Was coaching the QB's.
I view this as Shurmur is HC/OC
Shula as Asst OC/QB's coach.

He has done well at the QB spot


This is spot on.

When I heard the hire was Shula I made a "huh" face, which isn't exactly pumping fists in the air. But the is Shurmur's offense, Shula will help with the game planning and situational stuff as a second set of eyes, and concentrate on QB development.

If that's what it is then OK, I can live with that.
Somehow  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 2:38 pm : link
Reese and Mara have worked their way into this discussion. We just hired an experienced OC who is a QB guy and is familiar with Gettleman/been a part of championship teams.

He's also not even calling the damn plays. How is this a negative?
RE: Not thrilled  
Rflairr : 2/13/2018 2:40 pm : link
In comment 13830912 AcesUp said:
Quote:
They should have had one of the most versatile offenses in the league last year and he couldn't really figure it out.


Really after Olsen got hurt, where were all these weapons that were supposed to make them so versatile? Slow ass Funchess and who else? lol
RE: RE: RE: That said,  
RobCarpenter : 2/13/2018 2:57 pm : link
In comment 13831253 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831217 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:
Who did you want as HC?

I think we could have made Belichick happen, and I wonder how much we tried (if at all). The timing for Belichick to make the move was never going to be better. It's complete speculation on my part, but I know if I were Mara I'd move mountains to make it happen.



I think that ship has sailed.

Quote:


I don't hate the Shurmur hire; I just wonder on a couple levels how much sense it makes. On one hand we have the owner and GM verbally committing to keeping Eli around while on the other we hired a West Coast offensive coach that calls his own plays. Didn't we just go through that with McAdoo? Haven't we, after 14 years, identified Eli's strengths and weaknesses and noted that the West Coast offense doesn't meet his strengths? If the conviction was to keep Eli why weren't we more focused on bringing Kubiak here, or hiring Norv Turner?



McAdoo was incompetent -- I don't know that you can really make any real conclusions about Eli based on what happened with Eli under McAdoo.

Quote:

But it's not just the head coach hire. I look at this team right now and I see the results of about 5 years of bad management from ownership down.

- Why does the locker room have so many idiots in it?
- Why was the Eli benching allowed to be such a debacle?
- Why is ownership making public statements on whether or not Eli and Beckham will be here and for how long, and making those statements after Reese was fired and before the new GM was hired?
- Why are we saying anything publicly one way or the other on Eli when we have the 2nd pick in a QB heavy draft?

I don't think the Giants are a particularly well run team. It would have been easy to pin this just on Reese, but I don't feel good about how things have gone since he was fired either.



I think the answer to most of your questions is Reese and McAdoo. It was a dysfunctional organization.

I'm willing to give Shurmur and Gettleman a chance. If they don't address the OL this offseason and they trot out the same excuses next year if the offense stalls, that's one thing. But you aren't even giving them a chance to make any improvements.
RE: Don't understand why so many here dislike the move  
Dan in the Springs : 2/13/2018 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13831298 est1986 said:
Quote:
Shurmur, Bettcher, Shula is a lot more inspiring than McAdoo, Spagnuolo, Sullivan...


I'm fine with Shurmur and Bettcher. Shula is the news people like me are reacting to. There are some parallels to Sullivan that I don't like.

Sullivan was relatively new to the offense himself. He was not known as a real offensive innovator but clearly had built his reputation as being a teacher or "coach's coach". His best previous accomplishment was working with Eli, who has talent and is as coachable as they come. Sullivan hadn't had any kind of sustained success in any offensive system as a coordinator. He was someone the Giants were familiar with and who they liked.

Coach Shula is not someone with a string of accomplishments or a reputation as an offensive innovator. His biggest successes were with Cam Newton - a unique and gifted talent at the position. He has not worked with Shurmur before and it can be expected that Shurmur's system will be new to him. His biggest in, the thing that probably got him the job, is that he clearly is well liked in the Giants front office, most likely because of a connection with the current GM.

Lots of parallels. I didn't like the Sully hire. Don't like the Shula one either. Hope Shula turns out exceptional. We all just want the best.
RE: Somehow  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/13/2018 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13831316 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Reese and Mara have worked their way into this discussion. We just hired an experienced OC who is a QB guy and is familiar with Gettleman/been a part of championship teams.

He's also not even calling the damn plays. How is this a negative?


What championship teams!"?
RE: RE: Not thrilled  
AcesUp : 2/13/2018 3:09 pm : link
In comment 13831322 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 13830912 AcesUp said:


Quote:


They should have had one of the most versatile offenses in the league last year and he couldn't really figure it out.



Really after Olsen got hurt, where were all these weapons that were supposed to make them so versatile? Slow ass Funchess and who else? lol


They went into the season with a former MVP at QB, a solid OL and Benjamin, Funchess, Olsen, Samuel, McCaffrey and Stewart. There were weapons. Specifically, there was a lot of talk about how multiple they would be with the additions of the McCaffrey as a RB/WR and Samuel as a WR/RB hybrid. At one point, they had all of these weapons on the field at once but couldn't put these ideas and concepts together. Ironically, it was only after they traded away Benjamin and Olsen went down that he was forced to get more creative and make good on the preseason hype.

I'm not losing sleep over the hire, he's essentially the assistant OC, but he hasn't exactly lit it up whenever he's been given the reigns. Probably a coach's coach and a good leader, so hopefully he's the right guy for the role he's been hired to fill here.
This hire is more about him being a QB whisperer...  
Torrag : 2/13/2018 3:10 pm : link
...it's Shurmur's offense and he is keeping the play calling duties. This choice increases the odds of a QB selection with the #2 pick imo. I doubt it's about Davis Webb.
Good Hire  
PaulN : 2/13/2018 3:10 pm : link
Plenty of experience, nothing new to him, seems like a guy that will work well within the system, I like this hire a lot.
I don't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 3:12 pm : link
understand this post:

Quote:
Lots of parallels. I didn't like the Sully hire. Don't like the Shula one either


Other than you not liking the hires, which has nothing to do with the two coaches, there aren't many parallels between the two.

Sullivan has been both a defensive and offensive assistant, switching from defense to offense when he was with Jax. Shula has been a QB coach, an OC, and a Head Coach.

He had a team while he was OC (led by a defensive HC) go to the SB.

Other than Sully working with QB's, their backgrounds aren't very similar at all. That's really the only parallel.

I've thought that Shula has pretty uninspiring offenses, but he has positives, especially in how he's regarded for leadership. Since he's not there to call plays, leading and development are two things he'll be called on to excel in.
RE: RE: Don't understand why so many here dislike the move  
Mike in NY : 2/13/2018 3:14 pm : link
In comment 13831355 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13831298 est1986 said:


Quote:


Shurmur, Bettcher, Shula is a lot more inspiring than McAdoo, Spagnuolo, Sullivan...



I'm fine with Shurmur and Bettcher. Shula is the news people like me are reacting to. There are some parallels to Sullivan that I don't like.

Sullivan was relatively new to the offense himself. He was not known as a real offensive innovator but clearly had built his reputation as being a teacher or "coach's coach". His best previous accomplishment was working with Eli, who has talent and is as coachable as they come. Sullivan hadn't had any kind of sustained success in any offensive system as a coordinator. He was someone the Giants were familiar with and who they liked.

Coach Shula is not someone with a string of accomplishments or a reputation as an offensive innovator. His biggest successes were with Cam Newton - a unique and gifted talent at the position. He has not worked with Shurmur before and it can be expected that Shurmur's system will be new to him. His biggest in, the thing that probably got him the job, is that he clearly is well liked in the Giants front office, most likely because of a connection with the current GM.

Lots of parallels. I didn't like the Sully hire. Don't like the Shula one either. Hope Shula turns out exceptional. We all just want the best.


Sullivan was dreadful as a coordinator in Tampa. Reading the comments from those outside of the organization, Shula did do a let with what he had in Carolina and devised gameplans based on the talent he had rather than running his scheme come hell or high water. In Cleveland Shurmur had Brad Childress as his OC. This is a similar type of hire. Veteran coach/coordinator with reputation as a teacher who is not going to be looking at Head Coaching offers from other teams.
Think a good #2 offensive guy for a relatively new HC  
TMS : 2/13/2018 3:18 pm : link
like Shurmur. He will do what the HC tells him and there will be no confusion because he knows the game. He will also be valuable to a smart QB like ELI on game plans etc. Good hire.
RE: Terps I agree with a lot of your points...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13831274 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Unfortunately I think John Mara is more involved than he should be.

Iíve felt all along that Shurmur was a pure Mara hire. And I never liked the idea of waiting around for Minnesota and Philly.

No idea about BB, but I like the staff assembled in Arizona (Wilks with Holcomb and McCoy on the offensive side of the ball) more than I like the staff we have here.


What would be the reasoning for feeling any sort of way about Wilks, good or bad?
RE: GT  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13831310 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
you don't think the Giants are a well run organization?


I think they've done some questionable things beyond the obvious errors that are attributed to Reese and McAdoo.

I'm also very concerned about the prospect of picking Darnold AND keeping Eli. To me that speaks to three possible dangers in how this team is run:

1. Poor asset allocation
2. Too much concern with non-football issues, i.e. trying to answer the question of "who will be the face of the franchise after Eli is gone?"
3. The role played by sentimentality in decision making as it regards Eli
This really doesn't apply...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 3:24 pm : link
Quote:
1. Poor asset allocation


Having a rookie QB sit a year behind a vet isn't poor asset allocation.

You consistently operate under the assumption that the cap is very tight as if it is still the 90's. The cap gets easier to manage each year, and rookie contracts make it even easier to do so.
RE: This hire is more about him being a QB whisperer...  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/13/2018 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13831366 Torrag said:
Quote:
...it's Shurmur's offense and he is keeping the play calling duties. This choice increases the odds of a QB selection with the #2 pick imo. I doubt it's about Davis Webb.


Shurmur is a legit QB Whisperer. Shula is a retread who has no record of outstanding QB play.
You really see this as something that's happening?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 3:27 pm : link
Quote:
2. Too much concern with non-football issues, i.e. trying to answer the question of "who will be the face of the franchise after Eli is gone?"



I didn't think it could be argued that planning for the future when your current QB is 37 and going into the last two years of his deal would be seen as a non-football issue.
Jesus..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 3:28 pm : link
you are insufferable:

Quote:
Shula is a retread who has no record of outstanding QB play.


No record?

Quote:
On January 25, 2007, the Jacksonville Jaguars named Shula their quarterbacks coach.[12] Shula oversaw quarterback David Garrardís development from becoming a full-time starter in 2007 to making the Pro Bowl in 2009. In Shulaís first year with the Jaguars, Garrard ranked third in the NFL with a 102.2 passer rating Ė an almost 23-point improvement from the previous season Ė threw an NFL-low three interceptions and established a team record with a 64.0 completion percentage.


No record??

Quote:
On January 21, 2011, the Carolina Panthers named Shula as their quarterbacks coach. In 2011, Shula helped quarterback Cam Newton earn Associated Press Offensive Rookie of the Year after turning in one of the most prolific rookie seasons in NFL history, passing for 4,051 yards and accounting for 35 total touchdowns. In 2012, under Shula's tutelage, Newton improved on his Rookie-of-the-Year quarterback rating from 2011 with an 86.2 mark while rushing for more than 700 yards for a second straight season. Newton's 7,920 passing yards in the 2011-12 season surpassed the previous mark for a playerís first two seasons held by Peyton Manning.


Fuck
RE: This really doesn't apply...  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 3:30 pm : link
In comment 13831387 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:

You consistently operate under the assumption that the cap is very tight as if it is still the 90's. The cap gets easier to manage each year, and rookie contracts make it even easier to do so.


Where did I mention the cap?

It's a waste of a year of productivity from a player good enough to be worthy of the second pick overall. If the publicly stated edict from ownership is to keep Eli then we should be picking a player worthy of that pick that will help a team that has Eli at quarterback...i.e. Barkley.
You shouldn't talk about asset allocation  
Keith : 2/13/2018 3:31 pm : link
without a pretty basic understanding of how the cap works. Giants have plenty of resources to do what they need to do.

The Giants are a very, very well run organization. They've made some mistakes in the very recent past, but that doesn't change the fact that they are very well run. They are deliberate and thought out in their decisions and they give their guys enough of a chance to succeed. Most would have fired TC before 2007, but luckily they didn't. We are very lucky to root for a team so well run.

BB was not a realistic option for the Giants either so get that out of your heads.
Its funny to see GT accuse the Giants of sentimentality  
Keith : 2/13/2018 3:37 pm : link
when you've been doing it for YEARS. I remember a thread a few years ago where you wouldn't trade Eli for anyone in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers included, because of what he meant to the organization. It's all about winning and Eli won twice. Why the shift in thought process?
RE: You really see this as something that's happening?  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13831394 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:


Quote:


2. Too much concern with non-football issues, i.e. trying to answer the question of "who will be the face of the franchise after Eli is gone?"




I didn't think it could be argued that planning for the future when your current QB is 37 and going into the last two years of his deal would be seen as a non-football issue.


You miss my point. I'm wondering how much weight is being put into looking and acting the part the way Eli does. I think it's dangerous to just assume the next guy will or even should be like Eli.
RE: Its funny to see GT accuse the Giants of sentimentality  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13831410 Keith said:
Quote:
when you've been doing it for YEARS. I remember a thread a few years ago where you wouldn't trade Eli for anyone in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers included, because of what he meant to the organization. It's all about winning and Eli won twice. Why the shift in thought process?


I'm not running the team, you vacuous fucking dolt.
I think the ownership comments on personnel..  
Sean : 2/13/2018 3:44 pm : link
are not ideal. I like the Gettleman hire & Iím hopeful about Shurmur, but Gettleman/Shurmur should not be operating under any conditions.

Terps: a month or so ago you said you would be sold that wholesale changes are being made IF Shurmur can pick his own staff. Well, that has turned out to be the case.
So, you say that the Giants shouldn't trade Eli for anyone in the NFL  
Keith : 2/13/2018 3:48 pm : link
because it's about winning and he won for the Giants and now(conveniently after a brutal season, or 2), you complain that they are being sentimental with Eli, but that's ok becasue you aren't running the team. Got it.
RE: I think the ownership comments on personnel..  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13831418 Sean said:
Quote:
are not ideal. I like the Gettleman hire & Iím hopeful about Shurmur, but Gettleman/Shurmur should not be operating under any conditions.

Terps: a month or so ago you said you would be sold that wholesale changes are being made IF Shurmur can pick his own staff. Well, that has turned out to be the case.


They certainly deserve a chance...there's no reason to think either is incompetent or anything. It just doesn't feel like any of this lines up.
'Shurmur is a legit QB Whisperer'...  
Torrag : 2/13/2018 3:55 pm : link
Shurmur as HC isn't going to be the QB coach or have the time to be. He'll have his plate full doing his job...overseeing the entir roster, training, practice and preparation for the season and later the games. Shula is a QB whisperer and has had success developing multiple quality starters and that while not always working with the best raw materials...
RE: RE: RE: That said,  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/13/2018 3:57 pm : link
In comment 13831253 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831217 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:



Who did you want as HC?



I think we could have made Belichick happen, and I wonder how much we tried (if at all). The timing for Belichick to make the move was never going to be better. It's complete speculation on my part, but I know if I were Mara I'd move mountains to make it happen.

I don't hate the Shurmur hire; I just wonder on a couple levels how much sense it makes. On one hand we have the owner and GM verbally committing to keeping Eli around while on the other we hired a West Coast offensive coach that calls his own plays. Didn't we just go through that with McAdoo? Haven't we, after 14 years, identified Eli's strengths and weaknesses and noted that the West Coast offense doesn't meet his strengths? If the conviction was to keep Eli why weren't we more focused on bringing Kubiak here, or hiring Norv Turner?

But it's not just the head coach hire. I look at this team right now and I see the results of about 5 years of bad management from ownership down.

- Why does the locker room have so many idiots in it?
- Why was the Eli benching allowed to be such a debacle?
- Why is ownership making public statements on whether or not Eli and Beckham will be here and for how long, and making those statements after Reese was fired and before the new GM was hired?
- Why are we saying anything publicly one way or the other on Eli when we have the 2nd pick in a QB heavy draft?

I don't think the Giants are a particularly well run team. It would have been easy to pin this just on Reese, but I don't feel good about how things have gone since he was fired either.



We are going to be running a power spread or possibly a zone spread offense.

It's a much more simplified offense that I am sure Eli will thrive in.
But, ultimately Belichick is a very curious case..  
Sean : 2/13/2018 4:01 pm : link
Were conversations had? Compensation discussed? Was it all hot air?

The stars did align it appears.
LOL  
Keith : 2/13/2018 4:03 pm : link
so this is going to be the new narrative thrown around bbi?? What stars were aligned? There were no stars aligned for BB to come to the Giants. Please explain.
God Terps  
Dave on the UWS : 2/13/2018 4:03 pm : link
I asked who you would have hired for those 3spots. What we got was a rant about Belichek, Reese,Mac Mara and years of your displeasure and focusing on Eli and the #2 pick. Typical response. We are now entering a new era we should be looking forward not back. And has been said here 50000 times. The draft is ideally for the future. If they draft a QB its NOT for this year. It's for 2019. Some people can't seem to grasp that.
RE: God Terps  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 4:04 pm : link
In comment 13831443 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
I asked who you would have hired for those 3spots. What we got was a rant about Belichek, Reese,Mac Mara and years of your displeasure and focusing on Eli and the #2 pick. Typical response. We are now entering a new era we should be looking forward not back. And has been said here 50000 times. The draft is ideally for the future. If they draft a QB its NOT for this year. It's for 2019. Some people can't seem to grasp that.


I didn't even read your post. Sorry I didn't reply to it.
GT  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 4:06 pm : link
the giants have had exactly 1 quarterback since 2004 and won 2 super bowls with him. How many franchises can say that other than the Patriots and Steelers? Zero.

They are always in good cap shape. Sure, Reese fucked up the drafts in the latter half of his tenure. But he had a very solid run, and made some pretty championship caliber moves along the way.

GT  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 4:07 pm : link
so basically, anyone else other than Belichick and you would have been disappointed? I might as well dump my fiance and hold out for Jessica Alba. What do you think?
RE: GT  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13831448 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the giants have had exactly 1 quarterback since 2004 and won 2 super bowls with him. How many franchises can say that other than the Patriots and Steelers? Zero.

They are always in good cap shape. Sure, Reese fucked up the drafts in the latter half of his tenure. But he had a very solid run, and made some pretty championship caliber moves along the way.


That has very little to do with the team today.
RE: RE: GT  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13831454 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831448 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


the giants have had exactly 1 quarterback since 2004 and won 2 super bowls with him. How many franchises can say that other than the Patriots and Steelers? Zero.

They are always in good cap shape. Sure, Reese fucked up the drafts in the latter half of his tenure. But he had a very solid run, and made some pretty championship caliber moves along the way.




That has very little to do with the team today.

The team today has an entirely new GM and coaching staff!! What the fuck are you talking about??
RE: RE: You really see this as something that's happening?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13831411 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13831394 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:




Quote:


2. Too much concern with non-football issues, i.e. trying to answer the question of "who will be the face of the franchise after Eli is gone?"




I didn't think it could be argued that planning for the future when your current QB is 37 and going into the last two years of his deal would be seen as a non-football issue.



You miss my point. I'm wondering how much weight is being put into looking and acting the part the way Eli does. I think it's dangerous to just assume the next guy will or even should be like Eli.


If it were any team other than the Giants I'd say thats a ridiculous thing to worry about, but in this I think I'm actually in agreement with your idea. I think that's certainly a factor, though how much, who knows.
Ownership, obviously  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 4:10 pm : link
.
RE: Ownership, obviously  
ryanmkeane : 2/13/2018 4:11 pm : link
In comment 13831460 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.

And what exactly is your point? That you don't like the ownership structure and how they run the team?
RE: LOL  
Sean : 2/13/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 13831441 Keith said:
Quote:
so this is going to be the new narrative thrown around bbi?? What stars were aligned? There were no stars aligned for BB to come to the Giants. Please explain.


Lol. You are right. We obviously donít know, but from the reported stories it can be speculated.
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