As we've already exposed Parcells evaluation of a college QB's win/loss record , as a faulty measuring line.
I will now address the fascination on BBI with not drafting Josh Rosen because of his concussion history , as also being faulty.
In 2015 there were 199 concussions in the NFL.
Out of 199 players suffering a concussion , the cornerback position had the highest amount of players reporting a concussion with 41.
Why?
Because players making a tackle suffer the highest amount of concussions in the NFL , with 41%.
On the other hand , the Quarterback position had only 12 players reporting a concussion.
Some of the QBs who suffered a concussion were , Roethlisberger , Bradford , Bridgewater , and Case Keenan.
Teddy Bridgewater suffered a concussion in 2015 , he was cleared to play the next week.
Roethlisberger has had 3 concussions in his career. One in 2006 , 2009 , and 2015. Out of all 3 concussions , he has missed only 1 game.
Sam Bradford , who is injury prone , suffered a concussion in 2015 , he missed 2 games.
Case Keenum suffered a concussion in 2015 , he remained in the game.
As the facts show , all 4 of these QB's suffered a concussion , and none of them missed significant playing time , if any.
To those also trashing Josh Rosen.
Alex Smith in 2012 , while playing for the 49ers , ran a QB sneak , and suffered a concussion. He missed 1 game.
The facts show , it can happen at anytime , even during a QB sneak.
You should be more concerened with CB , WR , TE , S , OT , LB , and RB positions , which report a greater number of players suffering a concussion , than the QB position.
So please stop using Rosen's concussion injury as a reason not to draft him , it's a faulty measuring line that collapses on itself.
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In comment 13831652 figgy2989 said:
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Anyone who isn’t concerned about the concussions and shoulder is just being naive.
Umm our own DJ Fluker , who everyone here wants to sign to a long term contract , has already had 4 concussions. And no one seems to bat an eye on him.
He plays at Guard , which is 1,000 times more violent than playing QB.
My point is that , if Rosen learns to evade the big hits , he will be fine. Eli is a master of getting rid of the football fast , that's why he's started over 200 games. Rosen can learn to do the same.
Seriously, you are comparing a scrap heap OL with the number 2 overall pick? Keep starting threads on why everyone is wrong here. Your contribution to this site is invaluable.
The difference between me and you is this , I use facts. In fact here is another one for you...
Aaron Rodgers QB of Green Bay , had 2 concussions in 2010 , one in October and December. That's right 2 concussions , a few months apart , and hasn't had one since. FACT
DJ Fluker has had 4 concussions , and is still playing regularly at one of the most violent positions in the NFL without missing significant time , FACT....
Two threads in about the same span of time Rosen had concussions, aimed at "those trashing" a kid that nobody is trashing.
Just some odd, odd shit.
Your logic is faulty.The low rate of concussions among QB's makes Rosen's multiple incidents even more alarming.
Why? because it's been proven that soome people are simply more prone to suffering them. And that he is likely among them. And he'll be getting hit more explosively by stronger faster opponents at the nFL. A scenario that doesn't bode well for him avoiding further and perhaps more severe concussions.
There was an important link that a poster posted yesterday which stated if a player doesn't show symptoms in a year then it is kind of like starting from scratch again. That is good news if true especially with sitting behind Eli for a year or two.
But look it up. When you get a concussion you are more susceptible to another. Just because that small sample size didn't have multiple concussions doesn't mean Rosen is free from that concern.
Robbie: If you were referring to my post, we had an orthopedic surgeon posting that if a guy had some concussions but remained concussion free for a year, his chances of suffering another one becomes the same as anyone.
I have no link but the doctor posted a long post about concussions last month.
Ben only missed one game? Good for Ben, Rosen has missed many more.
Other positions are more likely to get a concussion? Ok, but that's deflection and a meaningless point. What does that gave to do with Rosen? He still got those concussions. How does it change Rosen's injury history.
I hope he stays healthy and has a long career, but the concerns with his health are justified.
Lake George: It's not just the concussions, shoulder & missed games but as Sy pointed out, Rosen has the physique of a high school sophomore. That is a freegin' scary combination.
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There was an important link that a poster posted yesterday which stated if a player doesn't show symptoms in a year then it is kind of like starting from scratch again. That is good news if true especially with sitting behind Eli for a year or two.
But look it up. When you get a concussion you are more susceptible to another. Just because that small sample size didn't have multiple concussions doesn't mean Rosen is free from that concern.
Robbie: If you were referring to my post, we had an orthopedic surgeon posting that if a guy had some concussions but remained concussion free for a year, his chances of suffering another one becomes the same as anyone.
I have no link but the doctor posted a long post about concussions last month.
I probably was referencing that but I am not 100% certain even though it was only 1 day ago.
It’s a pointless debate though, we are talking about a friend of a friend of a friend here.
I’m still not taking Rosen though. But I think the issue is more than just the physical part.
careful to avoid doing anything that could cause a bump,
blow, or jolt to the head or body. On rare occasions, receiving another concussion before the brain has healed can result in brain swelling, permanent brain damage, and even death, particularly among children and teens.
CDC facts about concussions page 8,9 - ( New Window )
I’m still not taking Rosen though. But I think the issue is more than just the physical part.
Thanks, Bill. It was Jarvis. I agree that I would pass on Rosen in the first round. Yes, I know he's the most NFL ready QB, I'm not a hater.
Figgy , you've already attempted to take two shots at me so far , and I've let you slide , no more , here's a FACT for you about Rodgers history in High School and College....
Dr. Mitchel Berger, a member the National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee at the University of California, San Francisco said NFL players , especially RODGERS given his history of concussions in HIGH SCHOOL , COLLEGE and NOW in the NFL , he should consider early retirement .....
FACT , Rodgers has a history of concussions , prior to the NFL , and he suffered two concussions in 2010 ... FACT.
I've just countered you with FACTS , Figgy Its time for you to just go home , one word for you....FAIL
Jay Cutler had 3 concussions while he played at Vanderbilt in college , before being drafted , FACT
Since he's been in the NFL , he has had 4 concussions , 2006 , 2010 , 2012 , 2017 , and hasn't missed significant playing time FACT
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So how exactly does your “facts” of home having 3 concussions in 2010, when he was already established in the NFL have anything to do with taking a QB at number 2, who already has a history of concussions coming into the league. I will wait for your “facts” to counter that point.
Figgy , you've already attempted to take two shots at me so far , and I've let you slide , no more , here's a FACT for you about Rodgers history in High School and College....
Dr. Mitchel Berger, a member the National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee at the University of California, San Francisco said NFL players , especially RODGERS given his history of concussions in HIGH SCHOOL , COLLEGE and NOW in the NFL , he should consider early retirement .....
FACT , Rodgers has a history of concussions , prior to the NFL , and he suffered two concussions in 2010 ... FACT.
I've just countered you with FACTS , Figgy Its time for you to just go home , one word for you....FAIL
Jay Cutler had 3 concussions while he played at Vanderbilt in college , before being drafted , FACT
Since he's been in the NFL , he has had 4 concussions , 2006 , 2010 , 2012 , 2017 , and hasn't missed significant playing time FACT
Yes, use Jay Cutler as your shining example. That will go well. FACT.
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So how exactly does your “facts” of home having 3 concussions in 2010, when he was already established in the NFL have anything to do with taking a QB at number 2, who already has a history of concussions coming into the league. I will wait for your “facts” to counter that point.
Figgy , you've already attempted to take two shots at me so far , and I've let you slide , no more , here's a FACT for you about Rodgers history in High School and College....
Dr. Mitchel Berger, a member the National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee at the University of California, San Francisco said NFL players , especially RODGERS given his history of concussions in HIGH SCHOOL , COLLEGE and NOW in the NFL , he should consider early retirement .....
FACT , Rodgers has a history of concussions , prior to the NFL , and he suffered two concussions in 2010 ... FACT.
I've just countered you with FACTS , Figgy Its time for you to just go home , one word for you....FAIL
Jay Cutler had 3 concussions while he played at Vanderbilt in college , before being drafted , FACT
Since he's been in the NFL , he has had 4 concussions , 2006 , 2010 , 2012 , 2017 , and hasn't missed significant playing time FACT
Hey shitdick, are you going to link your facts or keep spewing bullshit to fit your narrative? I did not “FAIL”, you did so, by making up statements about Berger which have nothing to do with Rodgers. Please link the Rodgers and Berger “facts” you list above...l’ll wait.
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In comment 13831659 sxdxca said:
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In comment 13831652 figgy2989 said:
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Anyone who isn’t concerned about the concussions and shoulder is just being naive.
Umm our own DJ Fluker , who everyone here wants to sign to a long term contract , has already had 4 concussions. And no one seems to bat an eye on him.
He plays at Guard , which is 1,000 times more violent than playing QB.
My point is that , if Rosen learns to evade the big hits , he will be fine. Eli is a master of getting rid of the football fast , that's why he's started over 200 games. Rosen can learn to do the same.
Seriously, you are comparing a scrap heap OL with the number 2 overall pick? Keep starting threads on why everyone is wrong here. Your contribution to this site is invaluable.
The difference between me and you is this , I use facts. In fact here is another one for you...
Aaron Rodgers QB of Green Bay , had 2 concussions in 2010 , one in October and December. That's right 2 concussions , a few months apart , and hasn't had one since. FACT
DJ Fluker has had 4 concussions , and is still playing regularly at one of the most violent positions in the NFL without missing significant time , FACT....
No, you don't. Do better.
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He couldn't pass the protocol. You think they lied about that? You think the doctors didn't evaluate him properly?
There was something that was still wrong or he would have passed the protocol, imo.
There was no protocol to pass because the decision wasn't based on whether or not he was experiencing symptoms, it was based on the timing of the two concussions he had experienced earlier in the season. And not even on the severity of the two concussions (which didn't appear to be severe, but I'm no doctor and I only base it on his appearance on the sidelines following them, so it's possible I'm wrong about their respective severity).
Milton, with all due respect, get real. If it was based solely on the timing, they wouldn't have even let him dress. There was no reason other than the concussions that it went down to the wire.
The amount of misinformation and outright untruths, just to keep supporting rosen is a really fucking strange thing.
Hell, Milton actually suggests that Mora was just being overly cautious with Rosen because the families are close.
I shit you not.
The main thing I wanted to find out was what constitutes being in the protocol. Was Rosen in the "protocol" one month later because he was still experiencing symptoms or because of the fact that he was coming off two concussions within a four week window of each other prior to the bowl game whether I could explain away his concussions in a way that would allow me to keep singing his praises, as I've done with every draft prospect that I've become infatuated with over the years.
Fixed it for you, Milton.
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In comment 13831705 figgy2989 said:
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So how exactly does your “facts” of home having 3 concussions in 2010, when he was already established in the NFL have anything to do with taking a QB at number 2, who already has a history of concussions coming into the league. I will wait for your “facts” to counter that point.
Figgy , you've already attempted to take two shots at me so far , and I've let you slide , no more , here's a FACT for you about Rodgers history in High School and College....
Dr. Mitchel Berger, a member the National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee at the University of California, San Francisco said NFL players , especially RODGERS given his history of concussions in HIGH SCHOOL , COLLEGE and NOW in the NFL , he should consider early retirement .....
FACT , Rodgers has a history of concussions , prior to the NFL , and he suffered two concussions in 2010 ... FACT.
I've just countered you with FACTS , Figgy Its time for you to just go home , one word for you....FAIL
Jay Cutler had 3 concussions while he played at Vanderbilt in college , before being drafted , FACT
Since he's been in the NFL , he has had 4 concussions , 2006 , 2010 , 2012 , 2017 , and hasn't missed significant playing time FACT
Hey shitdick, are you going to link your facts or keep spewing bullshit to fit your narrative? I did not “FAIL”, you did so, by making up statements about Berger which have nothing to do with Rodgers. Please link the Rodgers and Berger “facts” you list above...l’ll wait.
Hey Figgy ,
I have the article right here in front of me. But I don't continue having conversations with people who have to curse at another poster , and put them down , cuz they can't communicate in a civilized manner.
When you learn how to be respectful , then we will talk , its up to you big guy
In each, he stayed in the game immediately after the injury.
The first concussion, Rodgers said, happened in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to Washington. Rodgers remembers Washington linebacker London Fletcher being one of three defenders to hit him almost simultaneously. He said his left eye went “silver metallic,” and he could only see out of his right.
Rodgers stayed in the game, even scrambling for 15 yards on the next snap. He started the next week against the Miami Dolphins.
A second concussion happened later in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to the Detroit Lions. Once again, Rodgers did not leave the game — at least not immediately. Rodgers doesn’t remember what happened after his concussion, but he knows he remained in the game even after referee Gene Steratore checked him on the field.
“I got up,” Rodgers said, “and my chinstrap was across my nose. You could see Gene Steratore, one of my favorite referees, and he kind of comes over to me, and he’s like, ‘Hey, are you OK?’ I don’t remember this, but I’m like, ‘Yeah, I’m fine. I’m fine.’ There was a timeout called, went over to the sideline, and I think I waved off, ‘Oh, I’m good. I’m good. But it was the first time in my life I had blacked out, but that's not what you are thinking at the time. You're out there to compete and keep leading the team. Your body takes over, almost unconsciously. Maybe unconsciously."
“It’s just kind of what’s built into you,” Rodgers said. “I went back out there for a couple plays, and I couldn’t call the plays, and they ended up getting me out of there.”
Finally Terps and I agree! I'm not sure if that's a promising development, though. It could very well mean that Terps should be researching the best sauce for eating hats.
Ever stop to think the Giants want to continue their claim to fame of having the most starters missing games in the NFL?
I'd be stunned if we picked a quarterback that isn't Darnold.
I'd be stunned if we picked a quarterback that isn't Darnold.
If that's what they're looking for then they're just going to end up being the first team to try to play games without a QB. They're set in their ways, but I don't think they're that stubborn and intractable. Finding a marketable face isn't that difficult. The player that plays well and has success becomes marketable. They certainly don't have a moral stand against Odell making money for them, and he certainly does.
There’s no denying his talent, but he’d be destined for the IR with the Giants behind an OL in rebuild mode and some good pass rushing teams in the division.
Well, that settles it. Nothing to see here, folks. Colleges never inflate the measurements of their athletes. It's all settled now. Rosen has gotten injured in spite of his solid, injury-proof body. His super-powers are bound to kick in soon.
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Rodgers has had two concussions in his lifetime, he said, and both came with “completely different” symptoms.
In each, he stayed in the game immediately after the injury.
The first concussion, Rodgers said, happened in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to Washington. Rodgers remembers Washington linebacker London Fletcher being one of three defenders to hit him almost simultaneously. He said his left eye went “silver metallic,” and he could only see out of his right.
Rodgers stayed in the game, even scrambling for 15 yards on the next snap. He started the next week against the Miami Dolphins.
A second concussion happened later in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to the Detroit Lions. Once again, Rodgers did not leave the game — at least not immediately. Rodgers doesn’t remember what happened after his concussion, but he knows he remained in the game even after referee Gene Steratore checked him on the field.
“I got up,” Rodgers said, “and my chinstrap was across my nose. You could see Gene Steratore, one of my favorite referees, and he kind of comes over to me, and he’s like, ‘Hey, are you OK?’ I don’t remember this, but I’m like, ‘Yeah, I’m fine. I’m fine.’ There was a timeout called, went over to the sideline, and I think I waved off, ‘Oh, I’m good. I’m good. But it was the first time in my life I had blacked out, but that's not what you are thinking at the time. You're out there to compete and keep leading the team. Your body takes over, almost unconsciously. Maybe unconsciously."
“It’s just kind of what’s built into you,” Rodgers said. “I went back out there for a couple plays, and I couldn’t call the plays, and they ended up getting me out of there.”
No Fatman , Once again you are completely incorrect. I don't make stuff up. Half of the concussions in the NFL and college aren't even reported.
I have the link and the article right here in front of me.
"National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee and chairman of the department of neurological surgery at the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine."
He is from the university of California , where Aaron Rodgers went to college , look it up , I did.
I'm just tired of being cursed at , put down , belittled , name called for all of the FACTS and research I have presented.
Especially by a poster named Figgy. When he learns to show some respect I'll post it , its all on him. Blame him if I don't post it.
I also have made a documented list , and researched every current NFL QB playing and there concussion history.
I will present this tomorrow , I'm too tired tonight.
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up that Rodgers had concussions prior to the NFL. You didn't even link an article or a quote. Here's the words right from his mouth:
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Rodgers has had two concussions in his lifetime, he said, and both came with “completely different” symptoms.
In each, he stayed in the game immediately after the injury.
The first concussion, Rodgers said, happened in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to Washington. Rodgers remembers Washington linebacker London Fletcher being one of three defenders to hit him almost simultaneously. He said his left eye went “silver metallic,” and he could only see out of his right.
Rodgers stayed in the game, even scrambling for 15 yards on the next snap. He started the next week against the Miami Dolphins.
A second concussion happened later in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to the Detroit Lions. Once again, Rodgers did not leave the game — at least not immediately. Rodgers doesn’t remember what happened after his concussion, but he knows he remained in the game even after referee Gene Steratore checked him on the field.
“I got up,” Rodgers said, “and my chinstrap was across my nose. You could see Gene Steratore, one of my favorite referees, and he kind of comes over to me, and he’s like, ‘Hey, are you OK?’ I don’t remember this, but I’m like, ‘Yeah, I’m fine. I’m fine.’ There was a timeout called, went over to the sideline, and I think I waved off, ‘Oh, I’m good. I’m good. But it was the first time in my life I had blacked out, but that's not what you are thinking at the time. You're out there to compete and keep leading the team. Your body takes over, almost unconsciously. Maybe unconsciously."
“It’s just kind of what’s built into you,” Rodgers said. “I went back out there for a couple plays, and I couldn’t call the plays, and they ended up getting me out of there.”
No Fatman , Once again you are completely incorrect. I don't make stuff up. Half of the concussions in the NFL and college aren't even reported.
I have the link and the article right here in front of me.
"National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee and chairman of the department of neurological surgery at the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine."
He is from the university of California , where Aaron Rodgers went to college , look it up , I did.
I'm just tired of being cursed at , put down , belittled , name called for all of the FACTS and research I have presented.
Especially by a poster named Figgy. When he learns to show some respect I'll post it , its all on him. Blame him if I don't post it.
I also have made a documented list , and researched every current NFL QB playing and there concussion history.
I will present this tomorrow , I'm too tired tonight.
Don't bother. No one cares what you have to say.
Don't bother. No one cares what you have to say.
Well I do. Provided it's not on BBI.
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Well, that settles it. Nothing to see here, folks. Colleges never inflate the measurements of their athletes. It's all settled now. Rosen has gotten injured in spite of his solid, injury-proof body. His super-powers are bound to kick in soon.
It's so funny that people get these narratives in their head and just assume the world is lying when information runs counter to what they choose to believe. Baker Mayfield was supposedly 5'10 because everyone knows colleges lie, and then he showed up at the senior bowl and measured height at over 6 feet.
It's bizarre how some of you get attached to these prospects and get uber defensive over the slightest criticism. Fair criticism.
You keep saying that you are presenting facts, but can not link the support material. I will eat crow if you can provide the details.
I'm just going to highlight two sentences that reported Rodgers didn't have a concussion prior to the NFL:
"But it was the first time in my life I had blacked out, but that's not what you are thinking at the time. You're out there to compete and keep leading the team. Your body takes over, almost unconsciously. Maybe unconsciously."
These Rosen threads are bizarre as fuck to begin with, especially when you have two posters who seem to be wholly obsessed with the guy. Obsessed enough to just fabricate shit.
Here are the facts. Rosen has had 2 concussions in a short amount of time. The NFL has a concussion protocol where if he gets a concussion he could be missing significant time. Those are the facts period! No one can predict whether anyone is going to have a future concussion. Therefore this is the classic example of being a red flag. Something that is alarming and should be considered when making a decision of basing your career and franchise on drafting this person with this red flag.
IMO the Giants would be idiots to draft this kid with a concussion history. Yes it is a FACT that he has a concussion history. He might not ever have one ever again in his life but are you willing to bet your job, reputation, franchise on it? I'm a little more conservative when everything is on the line. That and also that he seems to be an immature man baby has me taking Barkley and rolling the dice with him who has less if any red flags.
I will trust the Giants to do their due diligence with his injury history, but let's not make it out to be trivial.
I'm willing to be here and now with anyone that he will have longer career than Saquon Barkley and miss fewer games due to injury than Saquon Barkley. And while they won't all be diagnosed and publicized, I'm gonna guess that Rosen will have fewer concussions during his career than Saquon Barkley.
p.s.--I'll admit that after doing more googling, I may have been wrong to dismiss both of his concussions as non-severe. I'm not a doctor or enough of a student of concussions to know how to categorize concussions based on symptoms and even if I was, there isn't complete information on it available to the public. As for why the public was strung along with the news that Rosen might be available to play in his bowl game before ultimately stating that the reason he was held out was based on the timing of the prior two concussions and the risk of a third one within a short window, well, that's a good question and open to theories (one being they wanted to downplay the severity of his concussion symptoms for purposes of not hurting his draft stock and another relating to PR surrounding the bowl game--with Rosen being the biggest attraction).
then you add the already repaired shoulder into the mix people have raised concerns about if he is the right pick or not its a very important pick and everyone has different priorities and issues with every player available at the number 2 pick which is alot
realistically they have 5 choices a QB, barkley, chubb, fitzpatrick or a slight trade back if the reward is high enough and it still leaves you a shot at one of the other 4 choices at least the QB is already heavily debated so i wont add to it
barkley will open up the running game and give you another receiving option out the back field and with veeren likely gone this is a distinct possibility if they feel webb can be the guy to replace eli in a year or two
chubb is a very real option too, gettleman used alot of high choices in carolina on the defensive side of the line early jpp has missed alot of time and isnt the same player,vernon is a good disruptor and above average run defender but he isnt a pure pass rusher,chubb would give them that and with the secondry they need pressure to force errors and allow the pass defence to hold up better
fitzpatrick could be the foil to collins at safety giving them a ball hawking safety that bletcher can use to make his scheme work or to free up collins to be the guy his scheme demands at safety either way he is in play if they trade back he may be the choice with the extra pick(s) used on the holes at other positions like OL or MLB
or to trade back into the first round for a QB that they rate higher than the mock people do as was the case with webb. second overall is perhaps a little soon for him to be picked as it stands but it wouldnt be a terrible pick but this is gettlemans first draft and a safer and quicker return pick may work better like the pass rusher,running back or the QB obviously