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For those trashing Josh Rosen part two.....

sxdxca : 2/13/2018 5:13 pm
As we've already exposed Parcells evaluation of a college QB's win/loss record , as a faulty measuring line.

I will now address the fascination on BBI with not drafting Josh Rosen because of his concussion history , as also being faulty.

In 2015 there were 199 concussions in the NFL.

Out of 199 players suffering a concussion , the cornerback position had the highest amount of players reporting a concussion with 41.

Why?

Because players making a tackle suffer the highest amount of concussions in the NFL , with 41%.

On the other hand , the Quarterback position had only 12 players reporting a concussion.

Some of the QBs who suffered a concussion were , Roethlisberger , Bradford , Bridgewater , and Case Keenan.

Teddy Bridgewater suffered a concussion in 2015 , he was cleared to play the next week.

Roethlisberger has had 3 concussions in his career. One in 2006 , 2009 , and 2015. Out of all 3 concussions , he has missed only 1 game.

Sam Bradford , who is injury prone , suffered a concussion in 2015 , he missed 2 games.

Case Keenum suffered a concussion in 2015 , he remained in the game.

As the facts show , all 4 of these QB's suffered a concussion , and none of them missed significant playing time , if any.

To those also trashing Josh Rosen.

Alex Smith in 2012 , while playing for the 49ers , ran a QB sneak , and suffered a concussion. He missed 1 game.

The facts show , it can happen at anytime , even during a QB sneak.

You should be more concerened with CB , WR , TE , S , OT , LB , and RB positions , which report a greater number of players suffering a concussion , than the QB position.

So please stop using Rosen's concussion injury as a reason not to draft him , it's a faulty measuring line that collapses on itself.


No offense but this is ridiculous.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2018 5:26 pm : link
If you do research you will know that every concussion is different. Every person is different. That means it needs to be treated as an individual case. He suffered 2 concussions in a short period of time. How many of your examples relate to that? Seriously, research it. He had one, had another, and was held out of his bowl game. To dismiss it because none of your examples are relatable is ridiculous.

And how many are shitting on the kid because of it? We have the second pick in the draft. The one thing we cannot afford is to miss on this pick. So, yes, it is a concern. It doesn't mean the kid sucks. I like him a lot.

There was an important link that a poster posted yesterday which stated if a player doesn't show symptoms in a year then it is kind of like starting from scratch again. That is good news if true especially with sitting behind Eli for a year or two.

But look it up. When you get a concussion you are more susceptible to another. Just because that small sample size didn't have multiple concussions doesn't mean Rosen is free from that concern.
Lots of games are won with backup linebackers  
widmerseyebrow : 2/13/2018 5:27 pm : link
Not as many are won with backup quarterbacks. That's why it's a big deal.
Whose argument is falling apart?  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/13/2018 5:28 pm : link
You have completetly ignored the fact that Rosen has missed significant time.

Ben only missed one game? Good for Ben, Rosen has missed many more.

Other positions are more likely to get a concussion? Ok, but that's deflection and a meaningless point. What does that gave to do with Rosen? He still got those concussions. How does it change Rosen's injury history.

I hope he stays healthy and has a long career, but the concerns with his health are justified.
Will part three cover the shoulder injury?  
njm : 2/13/2018 5:37 pm : link
.
RE: Whose argument is falling apart?  
sxdxca : 2/13/2018 5:39 pm : link
In comment 13831528 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
You have completetly ignored the fact that Rosen has missed significant time.

Ben only missed one game? Good for Ben, Rosen has missed many more.

Other positions are more likely to get a concussion? Ok, but that's deflection and a meaningless point. What does that gave to do with Rosen? He still got those concussions. How does it change Rosen's injury history.

I hope he stays healthy and has a long career, but the concerns with his health are justified.


Rosen missed significant playing time because of a shoulder injury , not because of a concussion. It's important that we understand this distinction.
I think it is important that we understand the word "trashing".  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2018 5:40 pm : link
People are concerned as they should be.
Reasons why I'm concerned about his concussion history...  
Dan in the Springs : 2/13/2018 5:41 pm : link
1. More than one documented concussion in college represents higher risk for future concussions.

2. Extended time missed from concussion is a red flag. I've heard it argued that delays returning from concussion could as easily be from an abundance of caution as from the severity of the concussion.

3. Given family background, it's possible that one or two more serious concussions might not just be the end of his season, but perhaps the end of his career.

#3 is especially true if the reason for delayed return is abundance of caution. I don't blame the player for wanting to be cautious re: injury and especially concussion, but what does that suggest will happen in the future if a serious concussion is had?

I'm not saying he's off my proverbial board, just saying it's a concern of mine with him.

All the data about LB, CB, etc. and concussion frequency rates doesn't change my mind one bit. I'm still a little hesitant about him because of the history.


Put it another way, if he had never had a concussion (or the shoulder surgery) I'm pretty sure he'd have a higher grade by everyone. Right?
RE: Will part three cover the shoulder injury?  
Diver_Down : 2/13/2018 5:42 pm : link
In comment 13831532 njm said:
Quote:
.


I'll be constantly refreshing the Corner Forum awaiting Part 4.
RE: No offense but this is ridiculous.  
sxdxca : 2/13/2018 5:45 pm : link
In comment 13831526 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
If you do research you will know that every concussion is different. Every person is different. That means it needs to be treated as an individual case. He suffered 2 concussions in a short period of time. How many of your examples relate to that? Seriously, research it. He had one, had another, and was held out of his bowl game. To dismiss it because none of your examples are relatable is ridiculous.

And how many are shitting on the kid because of it? We have the second pick in the draft. The one thing we cannot afford is to miss on this pick. So, yes, it is a concern. It doesn't mean the kid sucks. I like him a lot.

There was an important link that a poster posted yesterday which stated if a player doesn't show symptoms in a year then it is kind of like starting from scratch again. That is good news if true especially with sitting behind Eli for a year or two.

But look it up. When you get a concussion you are more susceptible to another. Just because that small sample size didn't have multiple concussions doesn't mean Rosen is free from that concern.


Robbie , your flat out wrong.

Here’s Rosen’s injury history in a nutshell. He was lost halfway through 2016 with shoulder injury. He then proceeded to throw for almost 4,000 yards in 12 games in 2017. The shoulder is good to go.

He didn't play in the meaningless bowl game , cuz why should he risk getting hurt , when he is guaranteed a 20 million dollar contract with the film he has already put out. Its a smart business decision on his part.

RE: Will part three cover the shoulder injury?  
WillVAB : 2/13/2018 5:45 pm : link
In comment 13831532 njm said:
Quote:
.


Lol
RE: RE: Will part three cover the shoulder injury?  
eli4life : 2/13/2018 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13831540 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13831532 njm said:


Quote:


.



I'll be constantly refreshing the Corner Forum awaiting Part 4.


Would that be his masterbation habits? Or is that part 5
RE: RE: No offense but this is ridiculous.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2018 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13831543 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13831526 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


If you do research you will know that every concussion is different. Every person is different. That means it needs to be treated as an individual case. He suffered 2 concussions in a short period of time. How many of your examples relate to that? Seriously, research it. He had one, had another, and was held out of his bowl game. To dismiss it because none of your examples are relatable is ridiculous.

And how many are shitting on the kid because of it? We have the second pick in the draft. The one thing we cannot afford is to miss on this pick. So, yes, it is a concern. It doesn't mean the kid sucks. I like him a lot.

There was an important link that a poster posted yesterday which stated if a player doesn't show symptoms in a year then it is kind of like starting from scratch again. That is good news if true especially with sitting behind Eli for a year or two.

But look it up. When you get a concussion you are more susceptible to another. Just because that small sample size didn't have multiple concussions doesn't mean Rosen is free from that concern.



Robbie , your flat out wrong.

Here’s Rosen’s injury history in a nutshell. He was lost halfway through 2016 with shoulder injury. He then proceeded to throw for almost 4,000 yards in 12 games in 2017. The shoulder is good to go.

He didn't play in the meaningless bowl game , cuz why should he risk getting hurt , when he is guaranteed a 20 million dollar contract with the film he has already put out. Its a smart business decision on his part.


I'm so confused. Why do I care about his shoulder injury. I care about the concussions. Research concussions. How am I wrong?
RE: RE: No offense but this is ridiculous.  
Dan in the Springs : 2/13/2018 5:48 pm : link
In comment 13831543 sxdxca said:

Robbie , your flat out wrong.

Here’s Rosen’s injury history in a nutshell. He was lost halfway through 2016 with shoulder injury. He then proceeded to throw for almost 4,000 yards in 12 games in 2017. The shoulder is good to go.

He didn't play in the meaningless bowl game , cuz why should he risk getting hurt , when he is guaranteed a 20 million dollar contract with the film he has already put out. Its a smart business decision on his part.
[/quote]

That's the argument about caution. I'd accept it better but what does it suggest? He was saying that if he cleared the concussion protocol he would play. Now, he may have been advised against that, but even some 32 days after the concussion in the season finale he had not passed the concussion protocol and was banned from practicing. Those are the facts as they were reported.

Was it a serious concussion? Who knows for sure, but if it wasn't and they were just being precautious, what does that suggest?
Rosen II  
Giantslifer : 2/13/2018 5:49 pm : link
The problem with Rosen is HE is damaged goods.
Bad knees, shoulder and concussions.
He is 20-21. He is a walking Bullseye.
If all these injuries already, how long do you think he will last in NFL?

NO
RE: Reasons why I'm concerned about his concussion history...  
sxdxca : 2/13/2018 5:49 pm : link
In comment 13831536 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
1. More than one documented concussion in college represents higher risk for future concussions.

2. Extended time missed from concussion is a red flag. I've heard it argued that delays returning from concussion could as easily be from an abundance of caution as from the severity of the concussion.

3. Given family background, it's possible that one or two more serious concussions might not just be the end of his season, but perhaps the end of his career.

#3 is especially true if the reason for delayed return is abundance of caution. I don't blame the player for wanting to be cautious re: injury and especially concussion, but what does that suggest will happen in the future if a serious concussion is had?

I'm not saying he's off my proverbial board, just saying it's a concern of mine with him.

All the data about LB, CB, etc. and concussion frequency rates doesn't change my mind one bit. I'm still a little hesitant about him because of the history.


Put it another way, if he had never had a concussion (or the shoulder surgery) I'm pretty sure he'd have a higher grade by everyone. Right?


Your also flat out incorrect , here are the facts...

He was knocked out of the UCLA Football versus Washington game with a concussion and missed the following game at Utah because of it.

In this day and age if you’re questioning a player’s toughness because of a concussion I have serious concerns about your mental health.

Finally Rosen was held out of the second half of the game against Cal because he sustained a very similar hit to the one that concussed him against Washington.

It Wasn’t his call to make and it was clear the coaching staff wanted to protect him. You can actually see how irate he is on the sideline. None of that should result in questions about his toughness.
RE: Rosen II  
njm : 2/13/2018 5:51 pm : link
In comment 13831549 Giantslifer said:
Quote:
The problem with Rosen is HE is damaged goods.
Bad knees, shoulder and concussions.
He is 20-21. He is a walking Bullseye.
If all these injuries already, how long do you think he will last in NFL?

NO


But he'll beat the Commies in Rosen IV
RE: RE: RE: Will part three cover the shoulder injury?  
Diver_Down : 2/13/2018 5:53 pm : link
In comment 13831546 eli4life said:
Quote:
In comment 13831540 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 13831532 njm said:


Quote:


.



I'll be constantly refreshing the Corner Forum awaiting Part 4.



Would that be his masterbation habits? Or is that part 5


I have no interest in reading about his grip strength and his training to improve it. But Part 4 should address the "anti-Rosenites" classification.
RE: RE: No offense but this is ridiculous.  
Milton : 2/13/2018 5:55 pm : link
In comment 13831543 sxdxca said:
Quote:

He didn't play in the meaningless bowl game , cuz why should he risk getting hurt , when he is guaranteed a 20 million dollar contract with the film he has already put out. Its a smart business decision on his part.
It wasn't his decision, he wanted to play. It was a UCLA decision based on the risk of having a third concussion within a ten week span of time. It had nothing to do with the severity of the two concussions that he had because they weren't all that severe and he wasn't still experiencing symptoms.

I do think there may be something to Jim Mora Jr being overly cautious with him. They are neighbors and their families are friendly so Mora may have felt added pressure to look out for his health.
RE: RE: Reasons why I'm concerned about his concussion history...  
Dan in the Springs : 2/13/2018 5:57 pm : link
In comment 13831550 sxdxca said:
Quote:


Your also flat out incorrect , here are the facts...

He was knocked out of the UCLA Football versus Washington game with a concussion and missed the following game at Utah because of it.

In this day and age if you’re questioning a player’s toughness because of a concussion I have serious concerns about your mental health.

Finally Rosen was held out of the second half of the game against Cal because he sustained a very similar hit to the one that concussed him against Washington.

It Wasn’t his call to make and it was clear the coaching staff wanted to protect him. You can actually see how irate he is on the sideline. None of that should result in questions about his toughness.


Who's questioning his toughness? I never did.

You're saying that we shouldn't be worried about his concussions and using statistics related to position history in the NFL. I'm concerned about his concussion history because he suffered a second one serious enough that even though he repeatedly stated he wanted to get back in the game and wanted to play in the bowl game, he couldn't clear the protocol even though it was over a month later.

That's a pretty serious concussion. If you're still suffering effects of a concussion over a month after you suffer it you've had a serious concussion.

I'm not arguing that he isn't tough.
RE: Whose argument is falling apart?  
sxdxca : 2/13/2018 5:58 pm : link
In comment 13831528 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
You have completetly ignored the fact that Rosen has missed significant time.

Ben only missed one game? Good for Ben, Rosen has missed many more.

Other positions are more likely to get a concussion? Ok, but that's deflection and a meaningless point. What does that gave to do with Rosen? He still got those concussions. How does it change Rosen's injury history.

I hope he stays healthy and has a long career, but the concerns with his health are justified.




Here are the facts , On October 28, in a 44–23 loss against Washington, Rosen was forced out of the game in the third quarter due to a concussion, which he had tried hiding from coaches after being injured on a sack in the game's opening drive.

After missing one game, Rosen returned to the lineup and threw for 381 yards with one touchdown and also scored on a 1-yard run in a 44–37 win over the Sun Devils.

He missed 1 game from a concussion , that's it
RE: RE: RE: No offense but this is ridiculous.  
Dan in the Springs : 2/13/2018 6:00 pm : link
In comment 13831557 Milton said:
Quote:
It wasn't his decision, he wanted to play. It was a UCLA decision based on the risk of having a third concussion within a ten week span of time. It had nothing to do with the severity of the two concussions that he had because they weren't all that severe and he wasn't still experiencing symptoms.

I do think there may be something to Jim Mora Jr being overly cautious with him. They are neighbors and their families are friendly so Mora may have felt added pressure to look out for his health.


He couldn't pass the protocol. You think they lied about that? You think the doctors didn't evaluate him properly?

There was something that was still wrong or he would have passed the protocol, imo.
RE: RE: Whose argument is falling apart?  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 6:00 pm : link
In comment 13831534 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13831528 LakeGeorgeGiant said:


Quote:


You have completetly ignored the fact that Rosen has missed significant time.

Ben only missed one game? Good for Ben, Rosen has missed many more.

Other positions are more likely to get a concussion? Ok, but that's deflection and a meaningless point. What does that gave to do with Rosen? He still got those concussions. How does it change Rosen's injury history.

I hope he stays healthy and has a long career, but the concerns with his health are justified.



Rosen missed significant playing time because of a shoulder injury , not because of a concussion. It's important that we understand this distinction.

I think you unwittingly may have proven the opposite of what you set out to prove. If QB concussions are statistically rare, and most don't miss much time when they do get one, then a QB who has suffered multiple concussions in a short period of time and then missed his bowl game several weeks later as a result of those concussions absolutely IS a concern.
RE: RE: No offense but this is ridiculous.  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 6:02 pm : link
In comment 13831543 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13831526 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


If you do research you will know that every concussion is different. Every person is different. That means it needs to be treated as an individual case. He suffered 2 concussions in a short period of time. How many of your examples relate to that? Seriously, research it. He had one, had another, and was held out of his bowl game. To dismiss it because none of your examples are relatable is ridiculous.

And how many are shitting on the kid because of it? We have the second pick in the draft. The one thing we cannot afford is to miss on this pick. So, yes, it is a concern. It doesn't mean the kid sucks. I like him a lot.

There was an important link that a poster posted yesterday which stated if a player doesn't show symptoms in a year then it is kind of like starting from scratch again. That is good news if true especially with sitting behind Eli for a year or two.

But look it up. When you get a concussion you are more susceptible to another. Just because that small sample size didn't have multiple concussions doesn't mean Rosen is free from that concern.



Robbie , your flat out wrong.

Here’s Rosen’s injury history in a nutshell. He was lost halfway through 2016 with shoulder injury. He then proceeded to throw for almost 4,000 yards in 12 games in 2017. The shoulder is good to go.

He didn't play in the meaningless bowl game , cuz why should he risk getting hurt , when he is guaranteed a 20 million dollar contract with the film he has already put out. Its a smart business decision on his part.

He dressed and wanted to play. This wasn't like other players who plan to sit out their bowl game. The UCLA doctors held him out because of the concussion.
Absent the Concussion problems  
Alwaysblue22 : 2/13/2018 6:06 pm : link
Rosen would go to the Browns. We cannot waste a #2 on him. Trade down and get a healthy QB or more picks that can play ..this year.
Having been involved with young athletes  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/13/2018 6:11 pm : link
the more we know about concussions the worse the news is. Multiple diagnosed concussions is a huge red flag. The kids that get two often keep getting them to the point where they can no longer play. There are lots of other kids that take much worse hits and never get a concussion. It is very individualized but when kids get multiple concussions the symptoms tend to start getting worse.

At this point, this is a pretty significant risk in taking a player who you absolutely have to depend to be on the field.

He may be fine but there is a much greater risk with this guy than with others. To say otherwise is just blind love for a player.

RE: RE: RE: RE: No offense but this is ridiculous.  
Milton : 2/13/2018 6:11 pm : link
In comment 13831563 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:

He couldn't pass the protocol. You think they lied about that? You think the doctors didn't evaluate him properly?

There was something that was still wrong or he would have passed the protocol, imo.
There was no protocol to pass because the decision wasn't based on whether or not he was experiencing symptoms, it was based on the timing of the two concussions he had experienced earlier in the season. And not even on the severity of the two concussions (which didn't appear to be severe, but I'm no doctor and I only base it on his appearance on the sidelines following them, so it's possible I'm wrong about their respective severity).
So if a fan of the Giants  
Mike from Ohio : 2/13/2018 6:18 pm : link
is concerned about drafting a QB at #2 overall with a history of time lost to two concussions and a shoulder surgery, they are "trashing" him?

Maybe you should re-title your thread "A fanboi's take on Josh Rosen?"
RE: couldn't clear the protocol even though it was over a month later  
Trainmaster : 2/13/2018 6:19 pm : link
+1

As others have stated, the 2nd overall pick needs to be as close to “can’t miss / super clean” (injury history, arrest history, intangibles) as possible.

Rosen does not meet the above criteria in the opinion of many posters (including mine).

I really, really hope the Browns take Rosen. I want the Giants to have the choice of Darnold or Barkley or the proverbial “King’s Random trade down” offer.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: No offense but this is ridiculous.  
Dan in the Springs : 2/13/2018 6:23 pm : link
In comment 13831576 Milton said:
Quote:

There was no protocol to pass because the decision wasn't based on whether or not he was experiencing symptoms, it was based on the timing of the two concussions he had experienced earlier in the season. And not even on the severity of the two concussions (which didn't appear to be severe, but I'm no doctor and I only base it on his appearance on the sidelines following them, so it's possible I'm wrong about their respective severity).


Where did you get that from? Here's one (of many) articles that claims Rosen himself said he hadn't yet passed the protocol. This was December 24th.

Quote:
Star UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen said Saturday that he remains in concussion protocol but still is hoping to play for the Bruins in Tuesday's Cactus Bowl against Kansas State.



Look Milton, I know you're a big fan of the guy. I like him too. It's just ignorance though to pretend that the concussion history he's had isn't a red flag of some sort. I ask you to honestly consider this question: Would he have a higher grade by (almost) everyone if he had zero concussions?


The real facts are that he missed two games from the concussions, regardless of what sxdxca claims are the facts. He wasn't cleared to play in the bowl game by the doctors. If you have evidence that the doctors cleared him and he chose not to please share it.
Milton  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/13/2018 6:32 pm : link
We don't even run a baseline test on athletes that we think have been concussed for 6-8 hours afterward. Obviously, if someone is disoriented on the sidelines that is one thing. But most concussions, even severe ones, aren't like that. A lot of symptoms don't begin to appear for hours after. Kids that develop severe symptoms often walk off the field fine.

Having come from the generation that laughed about getting your "bell rung", it is pretty scary stuff when you see high school athletes that are incapacitated for weeks and, in some cases, months later. Wondering about the damage that my generation did to itself through ignorance.
The NAGGING continues over Rosen  
TMS : 2/13/2018 6:33 pm : link
Glad when this draft is over. Talk about lobbying in politics makes you wonder if it happens on FB message boards as well. On and on and on. STFU.
There are 4-5 DBs playing at any given time. There is only one QB  
Ivan15 : 2/13/2018 6:35 pm : link
So 12 reported QB concussions is higher than 41 DB concussions.
Does Rosen have a paid group of  
TMS : 2/13/2018 6:35 pm : link
proponents. We need a special prosecutor maybe ?
RE: Having been involved with young athletes  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 6:37 pm : link
In comment 13831575 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:

He may be fine but there is a much greater risk with this guy than with others.


Doctors don't even agree on this take.

Anyone dealing in absolutes on this is to be doubted. The entire issue of concussions is still a matter that needs a lot more research.
RE: RE: Having been involved with young athletes  
Dan in the Springs : 2/13/2018 6:45 pm : link
In comment 13831605 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Anyone dealing in absolutes on this is to be doubted. The entire issue of concussions is still a matter that needs a lot more research.


Really? How about this absolute?

I absolutely wouldn't be worrying about his chances for a concussion if he hadn't had two recent ones.

I know that there are no absolutes with concussions - there's only risk and perceived risk. I can't find anyone though who disagrees with the idea that he would be a safer prospect without the two concussions.

Do you disagree with that idea?

Notice how we don't talk about concussions risk with players who've never been concussed. I'm saying that if he were in that group, we wouldn't be talking about concussions with him either. We'd all prefer he didn't have a concussion history, but that doesn't mean we're all absolutely certain it's a problem.
Dan, Peter...  
Milton : 2/13/2018 6:57 pm : link
I tried to do some more digging on the concussions to find out about their severity and the symptoms that followed. I was looking for specific quotes rather than second hand reports, because sometimes a report can jump to a conclusion.

The main thing I wanted to find out was what constitutes being in the protocol. Was Rosen in the "protocol" one month later because he was still experiencing symptoms or because of the fact that he was coming off two concussions within a four week window of each other prior to the bowl game.

Quote:
According to a UCLA source, Rosen wanted to play but the medical staff doesn’t want him to play in this game because they didn’t want him to risk having another concussion so close to the last one.

The junior quarterback has been in concussion protocol since getting injured late in the season. Rosen sustained a concussion against Washington on Oct. 28 and then sat out the following game. He was also banged up and sat out the second half of the Bruins' regular-season finale against Cal on Nov. 24.


Normally guys who are in concussion protocol aren't practicing with the team (I could be wrong about that) and Rosen was practicing with the team in the lead up to the bowl game.

As for the severity of the two concussions, Peter is right in that I'm really in no position to comment on them based solely on appearances. I guess we'll know more following the medical checkup at the combine.
RE: Dan, Peter...  
Dan in the Springs : 2/13/2018 7:17 pm : link
In comment 13831613 Milton said:
Quote:
I tried to do some more digging on the concussions to find out about their severity and the symptoms that followed. I was looking for specific quotes rather than second hand reports, because sometimes a report can jump to a conclusion.

The main thing I wanted to find out was what constitutes being in the protocol. Was Rosen in the "protocol" one month later because he was still experiencing symptoms or because of the fact that he was coming off two concussions within a four week window of each other prior to the bowl game.



Quote:


According to a UCLA source, Rosen wanted to play but the medical staff doesn’t want him to play in this game because they didn’t want him to risk having another concussion so close to the last one.

The junior quarterback has been in concussion protocol since getting injured late in the season. Rosen sustained a concussion against Washington on Oct. 28 and then sat out the following game. He was also banged up and sat out the second half of the Bruins' regular-season finale against Cal on Nov. 24.



Normally guys who are in concussion protocol aren't practicing with the team (I could be wrong about that) and Rosen was practicing with the team in the lead up to the bowl game.

As for the severity of the two concussions, Peter is right in that I'm really in no position to comment on them based solely on appearances. I guess we'll know more following the medical checkup at the combine.


I'm not an expert on the protocol, but it would seem silly to think that being in the protocol doesn't include examinations looking for indicators that a full recovery has occurred. It's not just because of the previous schedule, or they would have been able to announce that he would not be able to play immediately following the second concussion. It was undetermined because they were looking to see how he responded to treatment to determine if he was ready to play football again. In the end, they decided he was not fully recovered, whatever that means.

It's tiresome arguing the minutiae. What's worse is because it seems silly to be arguing it. Can't we all agree that he would be better off having never been concussed? Wouldn't that make us all feel a lot better? If so, what's wrong with stating that?

He's a great prospect, but maybe not entirely clean. If not, the biggest concerns are rightfully related to his health.
Read this  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2018 7:27 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Having been involved with young athletes  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 7:27 pm : link
In comment 13831608 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13831605 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Anyone dealing in absolutes on this is to be doubted. The entire issue of concussions is still a matter that needs a lot more research.



Really? How about this absolute?

I absolutely wouldn't be worrying about his chances for a concussion if he hadn't had two recent ones.


There were 244 diagnosed concussions in the NFL in 2016. Everyone's at risk.

Who knows how many more flew under the radar as un-diagnosed, and we have to allow for the possibility that players don't report symptoms, that teams know and don't report players being diagnosed, and that the league, which has a significant interest and is highly defensive about the topic, isn't trying to play defense against those numbers.

Quote:
I know that there are no absolutes with concussions - there's only risk and perceived risk. I can't find anyone though who disagrees with the idea that he would be a safer prospect without the two concussions.

Do you disagree with that idea?


Would he be a safer prospect? I don't know if it's fact or not that previous concussions increase vulnerability to them. I've heard it said, and I've heard it downplayed as well. There's no medical consensus on that that I'm aware of yet. He would be considered 'safe' because it's one less thing for a fan to think about.

It seems highly unlikely that football in it's current form is in any way given to minimizing concussion risk. It's not a helmet issue. It's not even a "big hit" issue according to some doctors. Repetitive impacts that don't look serious contribute just as much to the problem, some say. And if that's true, then the whole sport needs to be upended because it doesn't matter one bit if you never had one before.

I feel strongly about player safety out of appreciation for their talent, and I'm 100% in favor of anything that makes careers longer.

But if we're saying that concussions are serious enough that you need to pass on a quarterback, arguably the most important position in team sports, and the hardest to fill, because he's got concussions on his medical record, then don't you also have to start talking about not investing significant resources in any players with concussion histories? If so, that's sure going to conflict with teams that only care about winning and aren't going to mind the risk just to be able to put the most talented team possible on the field.

Anyway, my point is not that you shouldn't care if Rosen has had a couple of concussions. You should. But if that's the moment we start to care about it, then we need to realize that this affects all players all the time and concussions don't care about medical history. The only defense against it is to stop full contact in the sport. The argument that Rosen might be one hit away is true for anyone. Darnold, Allen, or Rosen, Barkley, or Chubb, if you prefer.
Ignore concussions  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2018 7:30 pm : link
they don’t matter. Heard it here first!
RE: There are 4-5 DBs playing at any given time. There is only one QB  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2018 7:31 pm : link
In comment 13831599 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
So 12 reported QB concussions is higher than 41 DB concussions.


Those are just numbers...
Ten Ton  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2018 7:36 pm : link
Are you really saying that there is not enough research that suggests getting one concussion increases your chance at another?

Quote:
Risk of Concussion

History of Concussion

Multiple prospective studies have identified a history of prior concussion as a risk factor for subsequent concussion.21-23,45 In high school athletes, a greater-than-twofold increase in concussion rate was seen with history of concussion, even when adjusting for sport contact level, grade, and body mass index.45 This association was strongest for football.45 Nonprofessional rugby has similar findings.23 A dose-response relationship was seen in collegiate football, including a 3-times-higher risk of repeat concussion with a history of 3 or more concussions.21
He’s off my board. Period.  
Bill L : 2/13/2018 7:37 pm : link
If someone else wants to dismisses the risk or the health or potential for losing your investment right away, then that’s okay. It’s just not me and I hope, I pray actually, that it’s not Dave Gettleman.

And, it’s not even totally about his potential for not being able to play. Its also about a father who, if he is both a good father and a competent neurologist, would not risk his son/patient’s life on a 4th concusssion.

This is totally unrelated, but there was a girl on my daughter’s soccer team who got a concussion. What she hid was the she had three in HS. A year later she dropped out of school because the headaches and dizziness had not gone away. Yeah everyone is different. But IIRC, she was on the verge of being booted from the team anyway because there’s apparently an NCAA rule that puts a cap on lifetime concusssion. I want to say 4 or 5.
RE: Ten Ton  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 7:44 pm : link
In comment 13831632 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Are you really saying that there is not enough research that suggests getting one concussion increases your chance at another?



Quote:


Risk of Concussion

History of Concussion

Multiple prospective studies have identified a history of prior concussion as a risk factor for subsequent concussion.21-23,45 In high school athletes, a greater-than-twofold increase in concussion rate was seen with history of concussion, even when adjusting for sport contact level, grade, and body mass index.45 This association was strongest for football.45 Nonprofessional rugby has similar findings.23 A dose-response relationship was seen in collegiate football, including a 3-times-higher risk of repeat concussion with a history of 3 or more concussions.21



I said there's no consensus that I've seen. I'm not going to pretend I've spent my free time reading medical studies on this. I don't believe there's one definitive determination that's accepted by medicine yet.
Having 1 concussion opens up Pandora’s box  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2018 7:44 pm : link
absolutely tons of research on that. Youlll find other research that says here may be a period of time that goes by that “resets” you back to 0, but that research seems pretty new and I’m highly skeptical on that.

Anyone that I ever knew hat got a concussion from sports went on to have multiple. I don’t know how anyone without an agenda can possibly believe having 1 is the same as having 0.
It’s kind of like deciding on whether or not to draft Myles Jack.  
Bill L : 2/13/2018 7:50 pm : link
He’s good enough and you just have to weigh the risk.
what is BBIs  
UESBLUE : 2/13/2018 7:58 pm : link
obsession with this guy? Pro and con its just nuts...
I don’t get it  
figgy2989 : 2/13/2018 7:59 pm : link
Anyone who isn’t concerned about the concussions and shoulder is just being naive.
RE: He’s off my board. Period.  
GFAN52 : 2/13/2018 8:01 pm : link
In comment 13831633 Bill L said:
Quote:
If someone else wants to dismisses the risk or the health or potential for losing your investment right away, then that’s okay. It’s just not me and I hope, I pray actually, that it’s not Dave Gettleman.

And, it’s not even totally about his potential for not being able to play. Its also about a father who, if he is both a good father and a competent neurologist, would not risk his son/patient’s life on a 4th concusssion.

This is totally unrelated, but there was a girl on my daughter’s soccer team who got a concussion. What she hid was the she had three in HS. A year later she dropped out of school because the headaches and dizziness had not gone away. Yeah everyone is different. But IIRC, she was on the verge of being booted from the team anyway because there’s apparently an NCAA rule that puts a cap on lifetime concusssion. I want to say 4 or 5.


That's news to me. My daughter played college lacrosse and I'm not aware of any lifetime concussion cap.
I dunno, maybe the coach just wanted an excuse to drop her  
Bill L : 2/13/2018 8:04 pm : link
But that’s what the team was told.
RE: I don’t get it  
sxdxca : 2/13/2018 8:04 pm : link
In comment 13831652 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Anyone who isn’t concerned about the concussions and shoulder is just being naive.


Umm our own DJ Fluker , who everyone here wants to sign to a long term contract , has already had 4 concussions. And no one seems to bat an eye on him.

He plays at Guard , which is 1,000 times more violent than playing QB.

My point is that , if Rosen learns to evade the big hits , he will be fine. Eli is a master of getting rid of the football fast , that's why he's started over 200 games. Rosen can learn to do the same.
Rosen's concussion hx is not a major concern for me.  
Glover : 2/13/2018 8:05 pm : link
And I think people on BBI became more afraid of him when they added his concussion history with his intelligence, and felt he might become the next Chris Borland. That makes sense, but the guy is smart enough, and old enough right now to make the decision as to whether he wants to risk his health playing NFL football. If he thought the risk outweighed the reward, I am sure he would have let it be known by now. Could he change his mind 3 to 4 years from now, yes, but like I said, I think the guy is smart enough and can weigh the information about potential long term brain injury and make his decision about playing in the NFL, and currently, he is committed to being drafted into the league. Chris Borland changed his mind about playing in the NFL very quickly, but I think his is a rare case.

What worries me (I never trashed Rosen) is the fact that we have Eli, who can lead a good team to a Championship (yes, next season, or the next), and should play, so, Is spending the #2 overall pick on a QB who will sit for 2 years the best way to produce a winner in 2018? I see the wisdom of getting a franchise QB, even if you have an aging franchise QB, but I dont think the "they won't be picking that high again for a long time" reasoning is enough to take the QB. Gotta do whats best for now AND the future. A lot of people forget about the NOW part. I'm not.

Im trading down with Buffalo at 22, getting 22 and 23 this year, a second this year, and the Bills 1st and 2nd round picks next year. They can load up on young players and still come out with the best QB in the draft, LAMAR JACKSON.
RE: I dunno, maybe the coach just wanted an excuse to drop her  
GFAN52 : 2/13/2018 8:07 pm : link
In comment 13831658 Bill L said:
Quote:
But that’s what the team was told.


I think that's more likely. My daughter's coaching and training staffs were very up to date on all the NCAA concussion guidelines and protocols. And let me tell you many of her teammates suffered concussions in games and practices over her college career.
Yeah, signing DJ Fuller to a cheap vet contract  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2018 8:07 pm : link
is the same as taking a QB at #2 overall. Genius analysis, wish I thought of that.

Your cure for not getting a concussion is to evade hits, haha. I can’t believe I just read that.
That would be a tough sell to the fanbase  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 8:09 pm : link
"I know you're angry about the whole 14 loss season, but here's a trade down to #22 overall AND Buffalo's first rounder next year."

Fluker  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2018 8:09 pm : link
*
RE: RE: I dunno, maybe the coach just wanted an excuse to drop her  
Bill L : 2/13/2018 8:12 pm : link
In comment 13831661 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 13831658 Bill L said:


Quote:


But that’s what the team was told.



I think that's more likely. My daughter's coaching and training staffs were very up to date on all the NCAA concussion guidelines and protocols. And let me tell you many of her teammates suffered concussions in games and practices over her college career.
I did a quick google search and found an article that specifically said that NCAA does *not* have a maximum number allowed. However, apparently some universities do. Maybe it was a school rule for us.
Not many people are talking  
DonnieD89 : 2/13/2018 8:16 pm : link
about who his father is, a neurosurgeon. You better believe he will have an influence on what decisions will be made, if he has his next concussion. He will be weighing heavily. I am in the medical profession and I work as a physician assistant in neurology. I see these people every day. Most of these patients I see don’t even play football and some are in pretty bad shape. If I was his father, I would be very careful how many concussions he acquires during his career. Believe me. He will get yanked out. Any responsible provider in the medical profession would be a huge influence based on a quality of life decision involving a close family member.
RE: RE: RE: I dunno, maybe the coach just wanted an excuse to drop her  
GFAN52 : 2/13/2018 8:16 pm : link
In comment 13831670 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13831661 GFAN52 said:


Quote:


In comment 13831658 Bill L said:


Quote:


But that’s what the team was told.



I think that's more likely. My daughter's coaching and training staffs were very up to date on all the NCAA concussion guidelines and protocols. And let me tell you many of her teammates suffered concussions in games and practices over her college career.

I did a quick google search and found an article that specifically said that NCAA does *not* have a maximum number allowed. However, apparently some universities do. Maybe it was a school rule for us.


Perhaps. It would be impossible to put a cap on the number concussions because the specific severity of concussions varies by the individual and event.
RE: Not many people are talking  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 8:18 pm : link
In comment 13831672 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
about who his father is, a neurosurgeon. You better believe he will have an influence on what decisions will be made, if he has his next concussion. He will be weighing heavily. I am in the medical profession and I work as a physician assistant in neurology. I see these people every day. Most of these patients I see don’t even play football and some are in pretty bad shape. If I was his father, I would be very careful how many concussions he acquires during his career. Believe me. He will get yanked out. Any responsible provider in the medical profession would be a huge influence based on a quality of life decision involving a close family member.


It would be really interesting to see what his father's professional opinion is on current concussion research and theory.
RE: RE: I don’t get it  
figgy2989 : 2/13/2018 8:23 pm : link
In comment 13831659 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13831652 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


Anyone who isn’t concerned about the concussions and shoulder is just being naive.



Umm our own DJ Fluker , who everyone here wants to sign to a long term contract , has already had 4 concussions. And no one seems to bat an eye on him.

He plays at Guard , which is 1,000 times more violent than playing QB.

My point is that , if Rosen learns to evade the big hits , he will be fine. Eli is a master of getting rid of the football fast , that's why he's started over 200 games. Rosen can learn to do the same.


Seriously, you are comparing a scrap heap OL with the number 2 overall pick? Keep starting threads on why everyone is wrong here. Your contribution to this site is invaluable.
I’m really looking to part 3 tomorrow  
figgy2989 : 2/13/2018 8:26 pm : link
Where you concoct some bull shit narative where because his last name is Rosen, everyone has our for him...wait...Milton already covered that.
RE: Yeah, signing DJ Fuller to a cheap vet contract  
sxdxca : 2/13/2018 8:26 pm : link
In comment 13831663 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
is the same as taking a QB at #2 overall. Genius analysis, wish I thought of that.

Your cure for not getting a concussion is to evade hits, haha. I can’t believe I just read that.


Ummm , yes the way to avoid a serious concussion is to evade hits in the pocket , that's common sense. If you're a QB , you get rid of the ball quickly , so you don't get hit and take sacks. If u can't see that , then I can't help you
RE: RE: Yeah, signing DJ Fuller to a cheap vet contract  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2018 8:34 pm : link
In comment 13831681 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13831663 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


is the same as taking a QB at #2 overall. Genius analysis, wish I thought of that.

Your cure for not getting a concussion is to evade hits, haha. I can’t believe I just read that.



Ummm , yes the way to avoid a serious concussion is to evade hits in the pocket , that's common sense. If you're a QB , you get rid of the ball quickly , so you don't get hit and take sacks. If u can't see that , then I can't help you


This is getting into Tommer territory. It is beyond comical.
Definitely don’t need your help  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2018 8:36 pm : link
And our iron man QB takes a lot of big shots, ones that could end Rosen’s career. But as long as he easily learns to evade hits he will be all good.
RE: RE: RE: I don’t get it  
sxdxca : 2/13/2018 8:37 pm : link
In comment 13831679 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 13831659 sxdxca said:


Quote:


In comment 13831652 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


Anyone who isn’t concerned about the concussions and shoulder is just being naive.



Umm our own DJ Fluker , who everyone here wants to sign to a long term contract , has already had 4 concussions. And no one seems to bat an eye on him.

He plays at Guard , which is 1,000 times more violent than playing QB.

My point is that , if Rosen learns to evade the big hits , he will be fine. Eli is a master of getting rid of the football fast , that's why he's started over 200 games. Rosen can learn to do the same.



Seriously, you are comparing a scrap heap OL with the number 2 overall pick? Keep starting threads on why everyone is wrong here. Your contribution to this site is invaluable.


The difference between me and you is this , I use facts. In fact here is another one for you...

Aaron Rodgers QB of Green Bay , had 2 concussions in 2010 , one in October and December. That's right 2 concussions , a few months apart , and hasn't had one since. FACT

DJ Fluker has had 4 concussions , and is still playing regularly at one of the most violent positions in the NFL without missing significant time , FACT....


Jesus Christ..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 8:38 pm : link
I don't think Part 3 will be about the shoulder, I think it will be the shithead OP and Milton tag teaming on telling us Rosen really never had a concussion at all, but was just held out so the Rosen and Mora families could enjoy a BBQ that weekend without Josh being sore.

Two threads in about the same span of time Rosen had concussions, aimed at "those trashing" a kid that nobody is trashing.

Just some odd, odd shit.
.Because players making a tackle suffer the highest amount of'...  
Torrag : 2/13/2018 8:39 pm : link
...of concussions in the NFL , with 41%.'

Your logic is faulty.The low rate of concussions among QB's makes Rosen's multiple incidents even more alarming.

Why? because it's been proven that soome people are simply more prone to suffering them. And that he is likely among them. And he'll be getting hit more explosively by stronger faster opponents at the nFL. A scenario that doesn't bode well for him avoiding further and perhaps more severe concussions.
RE: No offense but this is ridiculous.  
mrvax : 2/13/2018 8:39 pm : link
In comment 13831526 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:

There was an important link that a poster posted yesterday which stated if a player doesn't show symptoms in a year then it is kind of like starting from scratch again. That is good news if true especially with sitting behind Eli for a year or two.

But look it up. When you get a concussion you are more susceptible to another. Just because that small sample size didn't have multiple concussions doesn't mean Rosen is free from that concern.


Robbie: If you were referring to my post, we had an orthopedic surgeon posting that if a guy had some concussions but remained concussion free for a year, his chances of suffering another one becomes the same as anyone.

I have no link but the doctor posted a long post about concussions last month.
RE: Whose argument is falling apart?  
mrvax : 2/13/2018 8:42 pm : link
In comment 13831528 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
You have completetly ignored the fact that Rosen has missed significant time.

Ben only missed one game? Good for Ben, Rosen has missed many more.

Other positions are more likely to get a concussion? Ok, but that's deflection and a meaningless point. What does that gave to do with Rosen? He still got those concussions. How does it change Rosen's injury history.

I hope he stays healthy and has a long career, but the concerns with his health are justified.


Lake George: It's not just the concussions, shoulder & missed games but as Sy pointed out, Rosen has the physique of a high school sophomore. That is a freegin' scary combination.
I read that post  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2018 8:43 pm : link
I don’t know why a BBIers friend who’s an Ortho is held as some benchmark in concussion discussions (not aiming at you). Concussion research and treatment isn’t his profession and he doesn’t treat patients with these symptoms. It would be no different than posting my friends opinion who is a dentist.
RE: RE: No offense but this is ridiculous.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2018 8:46 pm : link
In comment 13831694 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 13831526 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:



There was an important link that a poster posted yesterday which stated if a player doesn't show symptoms in a year then it is kind of like starting from scratch again. That is good news if true especially with sitting behind Eli for a year or two.

But look it up. When you get a concussion you are more susceptible to another. Just because that small sample size didn't have multiple concussions doesn't mean Rosen is free from that concern.



Robbie: If you were referring to my post, we had an orthopedic surgeon posting that if a guy had some concussions but remained concussion free for a year, his chances of suffering another one becomes the same as anyone.

I have no link but the doctor posted a long post about concussions last month.


I probably was referencing that but I am not 100% certain even though it was only 1 day ago.
Aaron Rodgers was drafted in 2005  
figgy2989 : 2/13/2018 8:46 pm : link
So how exactly does your “facts” of home having 3 concussions in 2010, when he was already established in the NFL have anything to do with taking a QB at number 2, who already has a history of concussions coming into the league. I will wait for your “facts” to counter that point.
RE: I read that post  
Bill L : 2/13/2018 8:49 pm : link
In comment 13831698 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I don’t know why a BBIers friend who’s an Ortho is held as some benchmark in concussion discussions (not aiming at you). Concussion research and treatment isn’t his profession and he doesn’t treat patients with these symptoms. It would be no different than posting my friends opinion who is a dentist.
i don’t think that’s very fair. The guy had to study this stuff and become proficient to get his degree. Also, depending on his specialty area he could know quite a bit more than the average MD (which is logarithmically more than the rest of us). I had my spine done by an ortho but I could have gone to a neurologist for the same surgery and other treatment. There can be a lot of overlap.
I’m being slightly tongue in cheek  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2018 8:56 pm : link
but we have no idea what that guys credentials are. He may just work on ACL and ligament repairs for all we know. I’ve also seen a few spine orthos for my back, consulted with a couple for surgery - brain trauma isn’t in their wheelhouse and I wouldn’t go to one if I had a concussion.

It’s a pointless debate though, we are talking about a friend of a friend of a friend here.
It there was one poster (jarvis, maybe?)  
Bill L : 2/13/2018 8:59 pm : link
Who is an ethos who said pretty much the same thing. That’s first person.

I’m still not taking Rosen though. But I think the issue is more than just the physical part.
Just from spending an hour online  
mrvax : 2/13/2018 9:05 pm : link
reading medical studies on concussions, it seems that the brain can fully recover if given enough time to heal.

Quote:
While you are healing, you should be very
careful to avoid doing anything that could cause a bump,
blow, or jolt to the head or body. On rare occasions, receiving another concussion before the brain has healed can result in brain swelling, permanent brain damage, and even death, particularly among children and teens.



CDC facts about concussions page 8,9 - ( New Window )
RE: It there was one poster (jarvis, maybe?)  
mrvax : 2/13/2018 9:10 pm : link
In comment 13831713 Bill L said:
Quote:
Who is an ethos who said pretty much the same thing. That’s first person.

I’m still not taking Rosen though. But I think the issue is more than just the physical part.


Thanks, Bill. It was Jarvis. I agree that I would pass on Rosen in the first round. Yes, I know he's the most NFL ready QB, I'm not a hater.
RE: Aaron Rodgers was drafted in 2005  
sxdxca : 2/13/2018 9:20 pm : link
In comment 13831705 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
So how exactly does your “facts” of home having 3 concussions in 2010, when he was already established in the NFL have anything to do with taking a QB at number 2, who already has a history of concussions coming into the league. I will wait for your “facts” to counter that point.


Figgy , you've already attempted to take two shots at me so far , and I've let you slide , no more , here's a FACT for you about Rodgers history in High School and College....

Dr. Mitchel Berger, a member the National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee at the University of California, San Francisco said NFL players , especially RODGERS given his history of concussions in HIGH SCHOOL , COLLEGE and NOW in the NFL , he should consider early retirement .....

FACT , Rodgers has a history of concussions , prior to the NFL , and he suffered two concussions in 2010 ... FACT.

I've just countered you with FACTS , Figgy Its time for you to just go home , one word for you....FAIL









Jay Cutler had 3 concussions while he played at Vanderbilt in college , before being drafted , FACT

Since he's been in the NFL , he has had 4 concussions , 2006 , 2010 , 2012 , 2017 , and hasn't missed significant playing time FACT


RE: RE: Aaron Rodgers was drafted in 2005  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 9:25 pm : link
In comment 13831728 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13831705 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


So how exactly does your “facts” of home having 3 concussions in 2010, when he was already established in the NFL have anything to do with taking a QB at number 2, who already has a history of concussions coming into the league. I will wait for your “facts” to counter that point.



Figgy , you've already attempted to take two shots at me so far , and I've let you slide , no more , here's a FACT for you about Rodgers history in High School and College....

Dr. Mitchel Berger, a member the National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee at the University of California, San Francisco said NFL players , especially RODGERS given his history of concussions in HIGH SCHOOL , COLLEGE and NOW in the NFL , he should consider early retirement .....

FACT , Rodgers has a history of concussions , prior to the NFL , and he suffered two concussions in 2010 ... FACT.

I've just countered you with FACTS , Figgy Its time for you to just go home , one word for you....FAIL









Jay Cutler had 3 concussions while he played at Vanderbilt in college , before being drafted , FACT

Since he's been in the NFL , he has had 4 concussions , 2006 , 2010 , 2012 , 2017 , and hasn't missed significant playing time FACT


Yes, use Jay Cutler as your shining example. That will go well. FACT.
RE: RE: Aaron Rodgers was drafted in 2005  
figgy2989 : 2/13/2018 9:28 pm : link
In comment 13831728 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13831705 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


So how exactly does your “facts” of home having 3 concussions in 2010, when he was already established in the NFL have anything to do with taking a QB at number 2, who already has a history of concussions coming into the league. I will wait for your “facts” to counter that point.



Figgy , you've already attempted to take two shots at me so far , and I've let you slide , no more , here's a FACT for you about Rodgers history in High School and College....

Dr. Mitchel Berger, a member the National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee at the University of California, San Francisco said NFL players , especially RODGERS given his history of concussions in HIGH SCHOOL , COLLEGE and NOW in the NFL , he should consider early retirement .....

FACT , Rodgers has a history of concussions , prior to the NFL , and he suffered two concussions in 2010 ... FACT.

I've just countered you with FACTS , Figgy Its time for you to just go home , one word for you....FAIL









Jay Cutler had 3 concussions while he played at Vanderbilt in college , before being drafted , FACT

Since he's been in the NFL , he has had 4 concussions , 2006 , 2010 , 2012 , 2017 , and hasn't missed significant playing time FACT



Hey shitdick, are you going to link your facts or keep spewing bullshit to fit your narrative? I did not “FAIL”, you did so, by making up statements about Berger which have nothing to do with Rodgers. Please link the Rodgers and Berger “facts” you list above...l’ll wait.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don’t get it  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 9:33 pm : link
In comment 13831689 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13831679 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


In comment 13831659 sxdxca said:


Quote:


In comment 13831652 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


Anyone who isn’t concerned about the concussions and shoulder is just being naive.



Umm our own DJ Fluker , who everyone here wants to sign to a long term contract , has already had 4 concussions. And no one seems to bat an eye on him.

He plays at Guard , which is 1,000 times more violent than playing QB.

My point is that , if Rosen learns to evade the big hits , he will be fine. Eli is a master of getting rid of the football fast , that's why he's started over 200 games. Rosen can learn to do the same.



Seriously, you are comparing a scrap heap OL with the number 2 overall pick? Keep starting threads on why everyone is wrong here. Your contribution to this site is invaluable.



The difference between me and you is this , I use facts. In fact here is another one for you...

Aaron Rodgers QB of Green Bay , had 2 concussions in 2010 , one in October and December. That's right 2 concussions , a few months apart , and hasn't had one since. FACT

DJ Fluker has had 4 concussions , and is still playing regularly at one of the most violent positions in the NFL without missing significant time , FACT....


No, you don't. Do better.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: No offense but this is ridiculous.  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 9:40 pm : link
In comment 13831576 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13831563 Dan in the Springs said:


Quote:



He couldn't pass the protocol. You think they lied about that? You think the doctors didn't evaluate him properly?

There was something that was still wrong or he would have passed the protocol, imo.

There was no protocol to pass because the decision wasn't based on whether or not he was experiencing symptoms, it was based on the timing of the two concussions he had experienced earlier in the season. And not even on the severity of the two concussions (which didn't appear to be severe, but I'm no doctor and I only base it on his appearance on the sidelines following them, so it's possible I'm wrong about their respective severity).

Milton, with all due respect, get real. If it was based solely on the timing, they wouldn't have even let him dress. There was no reason other than the concussions that it went down to the wire.
There..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 9:43 pm : link
are articles and quotes directly from Rosen that he was in concussion protocol.

The amount of misinformation and outright untruths, just to keep supporting rosen is a really fucking strange thing.

Hell, Milton actually suggests that Mora was just being overly cautious with Rosen because the families are close.

I shit you not.
RE: Dan, Peter...  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 9:58 pm : link
In comment 13831613 Milton said:
Quote:
I tried to do some more digging on the concussions to find out about their severity and the symptoms that followed justify my obsession with Josh Rosen. I was looking for specific quotes rather than second hand reports, because sometimes a report can jump to a conclusion a way to keep championing Rosen here in spite of his well-documented concussion history.

The main thing I wanted to find out was what constitutes being in the protocol. Was Rosen in the "protocol" one month later because he was still experiencing symptoms or because of the fact that he was coming off two concussions within a four week window of each other prior to the bowl game whether I could explain away his concussions in a way that would allow me to keep singing his praises, as I've done with every draft prospect that I've become infatuated with over the years.

Fixed it for you, Milton.
RE: RE: RE: Aaron Rodgers was drafted in 2005  
sxdxca : 2/13/2018 10:10 pm : link
In comment 13831731 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 13831728 sxdxca said:


Quote:


In comment 13831705 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


So how exactly does your “facts” of home having 3 concussions in 2010, when he was already established in the NFL have anything to do with taking a QB at number 2, who already has a history of concussions coming into the league. I will wait for your “facts” to counter that point.



Figgy , you've already attempted to take two shots at me so far , and I've let you slide , no more , here's a FACT for you about Rodgers history in High School and College....

Dr. Mitchel Berger, a member the National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee at the University of California, San Francisco said NFL players , especially RODGERS given his history of concussions in HIGH SCHOOL , COLLEGE and NOW in the NFL , he should consider early retirement .....

FACT , Rodgers has a history of concussions , prior to the NFL , and he suffered two concussions in 2010 ... FACT.

I've just countered you with FACTS , Figgy Its time for you to just go home , one word for you....FAIL









Jay Cutler had 3 concussions while he played at Vanderbilt in college , before being drafted , FACT

Since he's been in the NFL , he has had 4 concussions , 2006 , 2010 , 2012 , 2017 , and hasn't missed significant playing time FACT





Hey shitdick, are you going to link your facts or keep spewing bullshit to fit your narrative? I did not “FAIL”, you did so, by making up statements about Berger which have nothing to do with Rodgers. Please link the Rodgers and Berger “facts” you list above...l’ll wait.


Hey Figgy ,

I have the article right here in front of me. But I don't continue having conversations with people who have to curse at another poster , and put them down , cuz they can't communicate in a civilized manner.

When you learn how to be respectful , then we will talk , its up to you big guy






You completely made..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 10:22 pm : link
up that Rodgers had concussions prior to the NFL. You didn't even link an article or a quote. Here's the words right from his mouth:

Quote:
Rodgers has had two concussions in his lifetime, he said, and both came with “completely different” symptoms.

In each, he stayed in the game immediately after the injury.

The first concussion, Rodgers said, happened in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to Washington. Rodgers remembers Washington linebacker London Fletcher being one of three defenders to hit him almost simultaneously. He said his left eye went “silver metallic,” and he could only see out of his right.

Rodgers stayed in the game, even scrambling for 15 yards on the next snap. He started the next week against the Miami Dolphins.

A second concussion happened later in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to the Detroit Lions. Once again, Rodgers did not leave the game — at least not immediately. Rodgers doesn’t remember what happened after his concussion, but he knows he remained in the game even after referee Gene Steratore checked him on the field.

“I got up,” Rodgers said, “and my chinstrap was across my nose. You could see Gene Steratore, one of my favorite referees, and he kind of comes over to me, and he’s like, ‘Hey, are you OK?’ I don’t remember this, but I’m like, ‘Yeah, I’m fine. I’m fine.’ There was a timeout called, went over to the sideline, and I think I waved off, ‘Oh, I’m good. I’m good. But it was the first time in my life I had blacked out, but that's not what you are thinking at the time. You're out there to compete and keep leading the team. Your body takes over, almost unconsciously. Maybe unconsciously."

“It’s just kind of what’s built into you,” Rodgers said. “I went back out there for a couple plays, and I couldn’t call the plays, and they ended up getting me out of there.”
If the Giants draft Rosen I'll eat my hat  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 10:27 pm : link
.
RE: If the Giants draft Rosen I'll eat my hat  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 10:32 pm : link
In comment 13831767 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.

Finally Terps and I agree! I'm not sure if that's a promising development, though. It could very well mean that Terps should be researching the best sauce for eating hats.
RE: If the Giants draft Rosen I'll eat my hat  
mrvax : 2/13/2018 10:33 pm : link
In comment 13831767 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


Ever stop to think the Giants want to continue their claim to fame of having the most starters missing games in the NFL?
It ain't happening  
Go Terps : 2/13/2018 10:38 pm : link
Ownership is used to 14 years of a basically unimpeachable quarterback that has won the Payton award and made a billion commercials that have made the team a billion dollars. For better or worse, I think that influences our draft pick.

I'd be stunned if we picked a quarterback that isn't Darnold.
I pine..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/13/2018 10:40 pm : link
for the days of radar. He could've munched his beret with a fine hollandaise sauce
None of this stuff matters guys  
UConn4523 : 2/13/2018 10:41 pm : link
Rosen just needs to avoid getting hit, so no worries
RE: It ain't happening  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 10:51 pm : link
In comment 13831776 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Ownership is used to 14 years of a basically unimpeachable quarterback that has won the Payton award and made a billion commercials that have made the team a billion dollars. For better or worse, I think that influences our draft pick.

I'd be stunned if we picked a quarterback that isn't Darnold.


If that's what they're looking for then they're just going to end up being the first team to try to play games without a QB. They're set in their ways, but I don't think they're that stubborn and intractable. Finding a marketable face isn't that difficult. The player that plays well and has success becomes marketable. They certainly don't have a moral stand against Odell making money for them, and he certainly does.
It’s not just the concussions  
WillVAB : 2/13/2018 10:51 pm : link
Rosen is fragile. He has a fragile build.

There’s no denying his talent, but he’d be destined for the IR with the Giants behind an OL in rebuild mode and some good pass rushing teams in the division.
He's 6'4 218.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 10:57 pm : link
.
RE: He's 6'4 218.  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 11:12 pm : link
In comment 13831785 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
.

Well, that settles it. Nothing to see here, folks. Colleges never inflate the measurements of their athletes. It's all settled now. Rosen has gotten injured in spite of his solid, injury-proof body. His super-powers are bound to kick in soon.
RE: You completely made..  
sxdxca : 2/13/2018 11:15 pm : link
In comment 13831765 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
up that Rodgers had concussions prior to the NFL. You didn't even link an article or a quote. Here's the words right from his mouth:



Quote:


Rodgers has had two concussions in his lifetime, he said, and both came with “completely different” symptoms.

In each, he stayed in the game immediately after the injury.

The first concussion, Rodgers said, happened in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to Washington. Rodgers remembers Washington linebacker London Fletcher being one of three defenders to hit him almost simultaneously. He said his left eye went “silver metallic,” and he could only see out of his right.

Rodgers stayed in the game, even scrambling for 15 yards on the next snap. He started the next week against the Miami Dolphins.

A second concussion happened later in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to the Detroit Lions. Once again, Rodgers did not leave the game — at least not immediately. Rodgers doesn’t remember what happened after his concussion, but he knows he remained in the game even after referee Gene Steratore checked him on the field.

“I got up,” Rodgers said, “and my chinstrap was across my nose. You could see Gene Steratore, one of my favorite referees, and he kind of comes over to me, and he’s like, ‘Hey, are you OK?’ I don’t remember this, but I’m like, ‘Yeah, I’m fine. I’m fine.’ There was a timeout called, went over to the sideline, and I think I waved off, ‘Oh, I’m good. I’m good. But it was the first time in my life I had blacked out, but that's not what you are thinking at the time. You're out there to compete and keep leading the team. Your body takes over, almost unconsciously. Maybe unconsciously."

“It’s just kind of what’s built into you,” Rodgers said. “I went back out there for a couple plays, and I couldn’t call the plays, and they ended up getting me out of there.”



No Fatman , Once again you are completely incorrect. I don't make stuff up. Half of the concussions in the NFL and college aren't even reported.

I have the link and the article right here in front of me.

"National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee and chairman of the department of neurological surgery at the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine."

He is from the university of California , where Aaron Rodgers went to college , look it up , I did.

I'm just tired of being cursed at , put down , belittled , name called for all of the FACTS and research I have presented.

Especially by a poster named Figgy. When he learns to show some respect I'll post it , its all on him. Blame him if I don't post it.

I also have made a documented list , and researched every current NFL QB playing and there concussion history.

I will present this tomorrow , I'm too tired tonight.


hahaha  
YAJ2112 : 2/13/2018 11:17 pm : link
what a fucking dickless twat
RE: RE: You completely made..  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/13/2018 11:19 pm : link
In comment 13831790 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13831765 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


up that Rodgers had concussions prior to the NFL. You didn't even link an article or a quote. Here's the words right from his mouth:



Quote:


Rodgers has had two concussions in his lifetime, he said, and both came with “completely different” symptoms.

In each, he stayed in the game immediately after the injury.

The first concussion, Rodgers said, happened in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to Washington. Rodgers remembers Washington linebacker London Fletcher being one of three defenders to hit him almost simultaneously. He said his left eye went “silver metallic,” and he could only see out of his right.

Rodgers stayed in the game, even scrambling for 15 yards on the next snap. He started the next week against the Miami Dolphins.

A second concussion happened later in the 2010 season when the Packers traveled to the Detroit Lions. Once again, Rodgers did not leave the game — at least not immediately. Rodgers doesn’t remember what happened after his concussion, but he knows he remained in the game even after referee Gene Steratore checked him on the field.

“I got up,” Rodgers said, “and my chinstrap was across my nose. You could see Gene Steratore, one of my favorite referees, and he kind of comes over to me, and he’s like, ‘Hey, are you OK?’ I don’t remember this, but I’m like, ‘Yeah, I’m fine. I’m fine.’ There was a timeout called, went over to the sideline, and I think I waved off, ‘Oh, I’m good. I’m good. But it was the first time in my life I had blacked out, but that's not what you are thinking at the time. You're out there to compete and keep leading the team. Your body takes over, almost unconsciously. Maybe unconsciously."

“It’s just kind of what’s built into you,” Rodgers said. “I went back out there for a couple plays, and I couldn’t call the plays, and they ended up getting me out of there.”





No Fatman , Once again you are completely incorrect. I don't make stuff up. Half of the concussions in the NFL and college aren't even reported.

I have the link and the article right here in front of me.

"National Football League’s Head, Neck and Spine Medical Committee and chairman of the department of neurological surgery at the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine."

He is from the university of California , where Aaron Rodgers went to college , look it up , I did.

I'm just tired of being cursed at , put down , belittled , name called for all of the FACTS and research I have presented.

Especially by a poster named Figgy. When he learns to show some respect I'll post it , its all on him. Blame him if I don't post it.

I also have made a documented list , and researched every current NFL QB playing and there concussion history.

I will present this tomorrow , I'm too tired tonight.


Don't bother. No one cares what you have to say.
RE: RE: RE: You completely made..  
mrvax : 2/13/2018 11:44 pm : link
In comment 13831793 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:

Don't bother. No one cares what you have to say.


Well I do. Provided it's not on BBI.
RE: RE: He's 6'4 218.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/14/2018 12:33 am : link
In comment 13831789 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13831785 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


.


Well, that settles it. Nothing to see here, folks. Colleges never inflate the measurements of their athletes. It's all settled now. Rosen has gotten injured in spite of his solid, injury-proof body. His super-powers are bound to kick in soon.


It's so funny that people get these narratives in their head and just assume the world is lying when information runs counter to what they choose to believe. Baker Mayfield was supposedly 5'10 because everyone knows colleges lie, and then he showed up at the senior bowl and measured height at over 6 feet.
Only on BBI  
Modus Operandi : 2/14/2018 6:41 am : link
Is a guy who's widely considered the most polished QB coming out and discussed as possibly being the first player taken overall, as being "trashed".

It's bizarre how some of you get attached to these prospects and get uber defensive over the slightest criticism. Fair criticism.
Still waiting  
figgy2989 : 2/14/2018 7:39 am : link
For you to link the Mitch Berger article talking about Rodgers’ concussions prior to the NFL. Did a google search and nothing came up...

You keep saying that you are presenting facts, but can not link the support material. I will eat crow if you can provide the details.
Figgy..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/14/2018 8:17 am : link
he doesn't have it. He supposedly had the article "right in front of him" last night and couldn't take a couple seconds to cut and paste because he was "too tired"! He's been a consistently terrible poster, and now he just blatantly made shit up.

I'm just going to highlight two sentences that reported Rodgers didn't have a concussion prior to the NFL:

Quote:
Rodgers has had [b[two concussions in his lifetime[/b], he said, and both came with “completely different” symptoms.

"But it was the first time in my life I had blacked out, but that's not what you are thinking at the time. You're out there to compete and keep leading the team. Your body takes over, almost unconsciously. Maybe unconsciously."


These Rosen threads are bizarre as fuck to begin with, especially when you have two posters who seem to be wholly obsessed with the guy. Obsessed enough to just fabricate shit.
FMIC  
figgy2989 : 2/14/2018 8:31 am : link
It is unreal how people get so attached to prospects. I am not saying that is necessarily a bad thing, but to fabricate and make shit up to fit a narrative is weird as hell.

i assume that part 3  
Dave : 2/14/2018 9:05 am : link
will address, and downplay, his shoulder injury
This is a good example...  
Zepp : 2/14/2018 9:27 am : link
of a little knowledge being a bad thing. Anyone in the healthcare field where they work with patients will tell you that everyone is different. You can't say in terms of concussions oh Aaron Rodgers had 2 and didn't have another one...therefore Rosen wont have another one. That is not a fact as has been childishly claimed. Everyone is different and concussions in individuals are different.

Here are the facts. Rosen has had 2 concussions in a short amount of time. The NFL has a concussion protocol where if he gets a concussion he could be missing significant time. Those are the facts period! No one can predict whether anyone is going to have a future concussion. Therefore this is the classic example of being a red flag. Something that is alarming and should be considered when making a decision of basing your career and franchise on drafting this person with this red flag.

IMO the Giants would be idiots to draft this kid with a concussion history. Yes it is a FACT that he has a concussion history. He might not ever have one ever again in his life but are you willing to bet your job, reputation, franchise on it? I'm a little more conservative when everything is on the line. That and also that he seems to be an immature man baby has me taking Barkley and rolling the dice with him who has less if any red flags.
I am as on-board with Rosen as anyone,  
Section331 : 2/14/2018 9:53 am : link
with the probable exception of Milton, but you're whistling past the graveyard if you don't think his concussion history is a concern. You can be certain any team looking at him will investigate it thoroughly, as they should. Anyone who gets a concussion is at more risk for further concussions than those who have not had any.

I will trust the Giants to do their due diligence with his injury history, but let's not make it out to be trivial.
Some of you are over the top about me being over the top...  
Milton : 2/14/2018 4:18 pm : link
I'm not saying concussions aren't a concern in general in the NFL (I'm the one who advocates eliminating the 3-point stance because of concussions), my only point was that I consider it a non-factor when comparing Rosen to the other prospects in the draft. He isn't going to drop because of the concussions. And he isn't going to cut his career short because of the concussions.

I'm willing to be here and now with anyone that he will have longer career than Saquon Barkley and miss fewer games due to injury than Saquon Barkley. And while they won't all be diagnosed and publicized, I'm gonna guess that Rosen will have fewer concussions during his career than Saquon Barkley.

p.s.--I'll admit that after doing more googling, I may have been wrong to dismiss both of his concussions as non-severe. I'm not a doctor or enough of a student of concussions to know how to categorize concussions based on symptoms and even if I was, there isn't complete information on it available to the public. As for why the public was strung along with the news that Rosen might be available to play in his bowl game before ultimately stating that the reason he was held out was based on the timing of the prior two concussions and the risk of a third one within a short window, well, that's a good question and open to theories (one being they wanted to downplay the severity of his concussion symptoms for purposes of not hurting his draft stock and another relating to PR surrounding the bowl game--with Rosen being the biggest attraction).
Milton, I hope you didn't take my comment as  
Section331 : 2/14/2018 4:23 pm : link
some kind of attack, I certainly didn't intend it that way. For the most part, I share your enthusiasm for Rosen, but I do think his recent concussions will be a significant interest for teams.
the issue isnt so much  
msh : 2/14/2018 4:32 pm : link
the fact he had a concussion as with the game it happens its the fact he missed over 4 weeks with a concussion that hints at a bigger problem especially behind that porous OL ,eli has taken ALOT of hits and never missed time in his career

then you add the already repaired shoulder into the mix people have raised concerns about if he is the right pick or not its a very important pick and everyone has different priorities and issues with every player available at the number 2 pick which is alot

realistically they have 5 choices a QB, barkley, chubb, fitzpatrick or a slight trade back if the reward is high enough and it still leaves you a shot at one of the other 4 choices at least the QB is already heavily debated so i wont add to it

barkley will open up the running game and give you another receiving option out the back field and with veeren likely gone this is a distinct possibility if they feel webb can be the guy to replace eli in a year or two

chubb is a very real option too, gettleman used alot of high choices in carolina on the defensive side of the line early jpp has missed alot of time and isnt the same player,vernon is a good disruptor and above average run defender but he isnt a pure pass rusher,chubb would give them that and with the secondry they need pressure to force errors and allow the pass defence to hold up better

fitzpatrick could be the foil to collins at safety giving them a ball hawking safety that bletcher can use to make his scheme work or to free up collins to be the guy his scheme demands at safety either way he is in play if they trade back he may be the choice with the extra pick(s) used on the holes at other positions like OL or MLB

or to trade back into the first round for a QB that they rate higher than the mock people do as was the case with webb. second overall is perhaps a little soon for him to be picked as it stands but it wouldnt be a terrible pick but this is gettlemans first draft and a safer and quicker return pick may work better like the pass rusher,running back or the QB obviously

RE: Milton, I hope you didn't take my comment as  
Milton : 2/14/2018 4:40 pm : link
In comment 13832591 Section331 said:
Quote:
some kind of attack, I certainly didn't intend it that way. For the most part, I share your enthusiasm for Rosen, but I do think his recent concussions will be a significant interest for teams.
I didn't. It was aimed at earlier comments from yesterday. I'm here for fun, some of the personal stuff is good-natured ribbing (which I enjoy) and some of it isn't (which I don't enjoy). There's such a thing as an honest difference of opinion and there's no need to get so worked up over it.
Draft Barkely or Chubb  
TMS : 2/14/2018 6:02 pm : link
or trade down. ELI will be our QB for at least 2 years. Rosen is being pushed for all the wrong reasons. Injury prone, fragile, big mouth with concussions, who will square root a golden parachute retirement before his first contract is over. Caveat emtor. MO
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