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Explain: Why is DRC on the bubble yet again?

OBJ_AllDay : 2/13/2018 11:42 pm
What more does this guy have to do? We have a great value at his contract for the level of player he is. Outside of Beckham he might be the most athletic man on the roster. Has close down speed, reliable in coverage (6-7 picks in 2016) and is a good player to have opposite Jenkins. With a better pass rush him and Jenkins have close to lockdown potential on most matchups. So why again do we find him as a potential cut in the offseason? If you lose him I have a hard time seeing a comparable player at the same price tag. You would be downgrading a strength of this team.
Agreed. Let him finish his last year of his contract  
DennyInDenville : 2/13/2018 11:54 pm : link
Even if he plays 50% of snaps he's worth it.

Apple hasn't proven shit.

Only cut DRC if we are gonna "tank" which isn't even a thing in the NFL
Money,  
old man : 2/14/2018 12:04 am : link
Age/possible loss of another 1/2-1 step, no longer a CB( but offered to convert to S),the suspension possibly as well.
That's a lot of bubble worthiness.
In his defense, after the suspension he did make lots of effort to prove himself worthy of not being cut; caveat: he has turned it up before to be able to get by, so is it real or is it an act?
I think he deserves a shot, maybe also a new lower contract.
keep in mind he's best covering the slot  
Giantsfan79 : 2/14/2018 12:07 am : link
Cockrell was the outside CB opposite Jenkins. If the Giants do bring in a new slot corner moving DRC to free safety could be a savvy move that pays dividends later.
RE: keep in mind he's best covering the slot  
OBJ_AllDay : 2/14/2018 12:15 am : link
In comment 13831799 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
Cockrell was the outside CB opposite Jenkins. If the Giants do bring in a new slot corner moving DRC to free safety could be a savvy move that pays dividends later.


Yea I never understood why he wasnít getting apples snaps on the outside this year. It made no sense to me to move a good cover corner inside only to be replaced by Apple who couldnít cover anyone. Guess they like him in the a lot for whatever reason but he would be an excellent FS imo
RE: Money,  
OBJ_AllDay : 2/14/2018 12:16 am : link
In comment 13831798 old man said:
Quote:
Age/possible loss of another 1/2-1 step, no longer a CB( but offered to convert to S),the suspension possibly as well.
That's a lot of bubble worthiness.
In his defense, after the suspension he did make lots of effort to prove himself worthy of not being cut; caveat: he has turned it up before to be able to get by, so is it real or is it an act?
I think he deserves a shot, maybe also a new lower contract.


The suspension was clown stuff to begin with - if it really was over him wanting to come back into a game and being told no and what ensued after.
I like his game  
mrvax : 2/14/2018 12:21 am : link
I'm a big fan of keeping him in '18 for several reasons. Slot CB is quite difficult to play and he is so quick, he does it well. I think he's on the books for about $7M this year. I acn't think of a guy would come cheaper and has proven he can play as well.

I've been hearing rumors or innuendos for a few years now that he would be cut or traded. I really don't know why.
RE: RE: keep in mind he's best covering the slot  
Giantsfan79 : 2/14/2018 12:27 am : link
In comment 13831800 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
In comment 13831799 Giantsfan79 said:


Quote:


Cockrell was the outside CB opposite Jenkins. If the Giants do bring in a new slot corner moving DRC to free safety could be a savvy move that pays dividends later.



Yea I never understood why he wasnít getting apples snaps on the outside this year. It made no sense to me to move a good cover corner inside only to be replaced by Apple who couldnít cover anyone. Guess they like him in the a lot for whatever reason but he would be an excellent FS imo


covering the slot is a whole different skillset vs covering outside. Covering outside is largely turning and running with the WR and having the speed to catch up. In the slot the receiver can cut or break in any direction at anytime, so you have to be far more quick-twitch being able to rapidly change direction.
I'm not sure why people would think he'd be a good safety.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/14/2018 12:28 am : link
Tackling has never been his strength.
RE: I'm not sure why people would think he'd be a good safety.  
OBJ_AllDay : 2/14/2018 12:31 am : link
In comment 13831804 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Tackling has never been his strength.


Good ballhawk with speed though...itís not like we have stud FS tacklers on this roster to begin with.
Gets hurt too much  
SHO'NUFF : 2/14/2018 1:14 am : link
Can't tackle worth shit.

And I love DRC.
Who says heís on the bubble?  
trueblueinpw : 2/14/2018 1:20 am : link
I think heíll be back. And, itís too late for me to look it up but I thought his contract was actually pretty resonable. Anyway, when heís healthy, heís been one of, if not the most reliable players on the defense since he got here.
He's still the fastest man on the field ..  
Manny in CA : 2/14/2018 1:26 am : link

Rarely gets beat; he's a team (not me first) guy.

There's a lot of others I'd give the boot to before him.

RE: Who says heís on the bubble?  
Mike from SI : 2/14/2018 3:57 am : link
In comment 13831812 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
I think heíll be back. And, itís too late for me to look it up but I thought his contract was actually pretty resonable. Anyway, when heís healthy, heís been one of, if not the most reliable players on the defense since he got here.


It's been beat writer and BBI speculation for at least 2 years. I want him back.
RE: Who says heís on the bubble?  
Mike from SI : 2/14/2018 3:59 am : link
In comment 13831812 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
I think heíll be back. And, itís too late for me to look it up but I thought his contract was actually pretty resonable. Anyway, when heís healthy, heís been one of, if not the most reliable players on the defense since he got here.


It's been beat writer and BBI speculation for at least 2 years. I want him back.
I do not agree he is on bubble  
George from PA : 2/14/2018 4:47 am : link
Maybe last couple of years due to $$$$but he is not currently on bubble.
I would extend him for a couple of years.  
Diver_Down : 2/14/2018 6:13 am : link
Players with his experience, athleticism, and speed don't exist on the market at his current salary. He is a bargain. I would extend him with the same target salary and giving him an opportunity to earn more with performance escalators (percentage of snaps, pro-bowl, playoffs, etc.)

For a team needing talent, letting DRC go to save a couple million only to have to spend the same money saved to replace him makes no sense.
Don't believe  
mdthedream : 2/14/2018 6:36 am : link
what people write. He should be fine if he was on the bubble I would think they would trade him before they cut him. You can never have enough corners.
Any bubble talk is pure speculation at this point  
ZogZerg : 2/14/2018 7:03 am : link
Beat writers look at cap numbers and list the players near the top to make up an article.

We have no idea what our new DC is looking for in players. He may really like DRC and want him as part of the new D.
I like DRC and think he still plays at a high level  
Rjanyg : 2/14/2018 7:39 am : link
But the $6.5 Mill salary may not be worth a slot CB. If he started in the base defense then moved to the slot in Nickel defense then fine.

Even the last game of the year, Cockrell and Dixon were the starting CB's, DRC was on the sidelines in base D.

If they cut it trade Apple then I would keep DRC but otherwise I think he may be gone.
Now, it's mostly about money and value  
JonC : 2/14/2018 8:21 am : link
to which he's reportedly open to a paycut. The urgency isn't as great now, from what I can glean.

They kicked him inside to slot CB to help take some wear and tear off of him, as he was constantly getting dinged the season before. Which created tension between him and the coaches for taking himself out of games (there was already clashing personalities, which I'd mentioned at the time ... and it got him shopped around the following offseason, they tried to get an OT for him). He's redeemed himself ever since, by most indications.

It was also about giving help to the rookie Apple, because playing boundary corner means he's got the sideline as an "extra defender" as an assist.
Yup, pricey for a slot CB  
JonC : 2/14/2018 8:22 am : link
Reese reportedly wouldn't go past $3M per on offers in recent years to UFAs to play the slot, as a point of reference. We'll see what DG thinks, I suspect we'll see a paycut at least.
he's a little pricey but I'd try to keep him. And he was still busting  
Victor in CT : 2/14/2018 8:27 am : link
it at the end of the year when most of the D had mailed it in.
He is always a cap causality consideration  
Beer Man : 2/14/2018 8:51 am : link
Not because of his play, but because it can clear space. The thing that you have to question, does the team receive equal or better value by cutting. I think his level of play is still high, he is willing to play FS, justifies keeping him for the last year of his contract. As we have seen with other aging but good CBs, a move to FS may even extend his career.
some on this forum  
mpinmaine : 2/14/2018 8:57 am : link
have posted, wanting to get him off the roster, I believe, for the last couple of off seasons.

I like the way he plays, I would like to see him in the backfield for a few years more if he has it in him and is a good locker room guy etc.
the problem with FS  
JonC : 2/14/2018 8:58 am : link
is he's not a good consistent tackler. He'll occasional make a good tackle, and even surprise us a times, but he's often not a good fundamental tackler.
Man...I like DRC BUT paying an  
Dnew15 : 2/14/2018 9:01 am : link
aging vet that plays 50% of the snaps on defense, when healthy (which isn't 100% of the time), been suspended for conduct detrimental to the team (which started a rash of similar behavior), and is going to be in the top 5 paid players on the roster this year....not sure I see the value here...
Also...  
Dnew15 : 2/14/2018 9:09 am : link
What if cutting DRC meant the Giants could afford Norwall...do you cut him then???
RE: Also...  
Diver_Down : 2/14/2018 9:14 am : link
In comment 13831917 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
What if cutting DRC meant the Giants could afford Norwall...do you cut him then???


Norwell shouldn't factor into keeping DRC. We can afford Norwell without making any cuts. Of course some players will be cut to create additional space and not earning the contract they signed. But signing a FA like Norwell isn't an either/or decision.
Norwell's Projected Market Value - ( New Window )
RE: Also...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/14/2018 9:15 am : link
In comment 13831917 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
What if cutting DRC meant the Giants could afford Norwall...do you cut him then???


There are other players they should cut first. But this isn't even an issue. They won't need to cut anyone to do that deal even if he got the best deal in the league for a guard.
It's not solely about fitting Norwell  
JonC : 2/14/2018 9:19 am : link
we need a lot of help all over.
Simple, age and $$$  
pjcas18 : 2/14/2018 9:21 am : link
it's life in the NFL.

I would think  
Dankbeerman : 2/14/2018 9:25 am : link
they could add a year to his deal and spread out the cap hit. Tough spot where he is worth his number compared to what replacing him would cost but its also a lot for an older guy on his last year. His is a guy to keep and in a roll similar to the Mathieu he can excel.

He is a cover guy more then a center fielder and he makes his picks jumping routes. He also is very good at timing blitzes though he doesn't always get home. My vision for this defense is to have a deep S, Jenkins and another man to man corner on the outside and Collins and DRC all over the middle of field, saftey, LB, slot, on the line. I want QB's to come to the line surprised by where those 2 are.
Itís hard to pay a part-time player that type of money......  
Simms11 : 2/14/2018 9:29 am : link
He is still valuable and unless he takes a massive paycut, heíll probably be released.
I agree..  
Dnew15 : 2/14/2018 9:30 am : link
but who else has a contract that's cutable, will give us significant cap space, and won't be considerably damning to the overall make-up of the team?
I agree that it's not just about Norwell...but it's not like he's the only guy the Giants need to sign to re-vamp their roster...
Some say he won't play hurt....  
Britt in VA : 2/14/2018 9:31 am : link
and takes himself out of games unnecessarily.
I was replying to Diver's post  
JonC : 2/14/2018 9:36 am : link
If I'm the GM, DRC's current cost is too high given the current state of the team. It also looked like Cockrell's crash course on the field was precursor ... but, now it's DG behind the wheel.
Having good slot corner is  
ajr2456 : 2/14/2018 10:34 am : link
Probably more important than having good linebackers the way the NFL is trending. His salary is fine.
DRC's cap hit according to SportTrac  
Dnew15 : 2/14/2018 10:41 am : link
is 8.5 million next year - good for 20th amongst CBs in the NFL.
No other NFL team is paying anywhere near that for a guy who plays as little as DRC...
Again - I'm not arguing that DRC isn't a good player...what I am saying is that the Giants need to reallocate those funds to guys that play more often and can make a bigger impact.
DRC is a luxury the Giants can't afford.
DRC should be starting  
GeorgeAdams33 : 2/14/2018 3:20 pm : link
Restructure him but bring him back
RE: I agree..  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/14/2018 3:23 pm : link
In comment 13831964 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
but who else has a contract that's cutable, will give us significant cap space, and won't be considerably damning to the overall make-up of the team?
I agree that it's not just about Norwell...but it's not like he's the only guy the Giants need to sign to re-vamp their roster...


The solution isn't going to come from signing 10 expensive free agents. They have a good amount of money to work with, and avenues to create more room where they need it.
Cause media writers look at his salary and his age  
blueblood : 2/14/2018 3:25 pm : link
and just assume he is going to be cut.. however they ignore the huge hole created by his departure.

RE: DRC's cap hit according to SportTrac  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/14/2018 3:26 pm : link
In comment 13832095 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
is 8.5 million next year - good for 20th amongst CBs in the NFL.
No other NFL team is paying anywhere near that for a guy who plays as little as DRC...



We have snap counts for this.

DRC played 55% of all defensive snaps.
Jenkins 56.17%
Cockrell 61.62%
Apple 58.89%
anyone here think Apple should have more snaps than DRC  
blueblood : 2/14/2018 3:37 pm : link
anyone?
I think he's ripe for a salary cut  
adamg : 2/14/2018 3:41 pm : link
Restructure and keep him seems like the right move.
Thanks, TTH, for posting the snap counts.  
Diver_Down : 2/14/2018 3:54 pm : link
I wonder if Dnew15 thinks that Jenkins is a luxury that we can't afford.
No problemo  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/14/2018 4:22 pm : link
In case anyone else is interested

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2017-snap-counts.htm
It would figure to be a paycut  
JonC : 2/14/2018 4:25 pm : link
not a restructure, you don't want to pay for pricey future years on a 32 year old CB.
DRC is a bit  
tomjgiant : 2/14/2018 8:05 pm : link
of a strange cat,but he is a damn good football player,so keeping good players on the team is always a good idea.
Why is DRC on the bubble yet again?  
Doomster : 2/14/2018 10:17 pm : link
Well, for one, is he worth an 8.5m cap hit?

Zero, I repeat, zero int's last season....

One, I repeat, one PD......

Another year older....he has missed time on the field the last two seasons, with various injuries.....

But, you just can't cut him, without having someone to replace him with, either....

This is one of those decisions, where you can use his cap to sign someone in a position of need, like OL.....but while strengthening one position, you weaken another.....

Every move this GM/HC makes will be under a microscope.....many want lightning in a bottle......what direction will this team take? Quick fixes or try to rebuild this team to respectability?
It's Money  
DavidinBMNY : 2/15/2018 7:07 am : link
This year his dead cap space $ is much less then last year. He would free up about $6mm in Cap space I think.

Let's put it like this - he's behind Cockrell, Cockrell is a FA, who do you want to pay.
I think he still adds value.  
Brown Recluse : 2/15/2018 7:38 am : link
Restructure or move on.
RE: It's Money  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/15/2018 8:18 am : link
In comment 13832994 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
This year his dead cap space $ is much less then last year. He would free up about $6mm in Cap space I think.

Let's put it like this - he's behind Cockrell, Cockrell is a FA, who do you want to pay.


Behind Cockrell in what? I don't think you're going to find anyone to agree with you that Cockrell is a better football player.
I agree,  
Doomster : 2/15/2018 8:43 am : link
Cockrell is no DRC.....he was in the right place at the right time, a couple times last year....being a FA, there might be a GM willing to overpay....Hope we don't.....

Would love to get Butler, but he will be too expensive....
RE: RE: It's Money  
section125 : 2/15/2018 8:51 am : link
In comment 13833018 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13832994 DavidinBMNY said:


Quote:


This year his dead cap space $ is much less then last year. He would free up about $6mm in Cap space I think.

Let's put it like this - he's behind Cockrell, Cockrell is a FA, who do you want to pay.



Behind Cockrell in what? I don't think you're going to find anyone to agree with you that Cockrell is a better football player.


The way Cockrell played last year it would be close. I'm for keeping DRC whether at FS or slot CB. I also wouldn't mind a restructure to add a year or two at say $2 or $3 per average. He is a good football player. Slot is a tough position to cover.
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