Really not sure how to feel about this. Of course, I hate hearing all these stories, especially as the father of a young woman about to head out into the cruel world of reality.
Brennan's column asks: Why aren't we talking about sexual harassment allegations that were levied against White against a former band mate.
I won't re-hash the column here. But I admit, while the #metoo movement is certainly warranted and likely long overdue, are there limits? Is White right to say, "Hey, I'm here to talk about the Olympics?" Or is it Brennan who has it - that White needs to answer for his sins, even after an historical Olympics win?
Curious to know what you folks think.
And on this Feast of Saint Valentine ... BBI? I love you.
Brennan's column - (
New Window )
Weinstein/Cosby... These guys aren't even jail.
I can't think of an example where mere allegations took someone down. The punishments haven't been harsh enough for those with lists of accusers.
I'm not saying what is deserved and what isn't but how can you say Harvey Weinstein's career isn't over? I hope it is.
He's not in jail (for now), but he's been fired from his company, his wife left him, he's the subject of multiple criminal investigations, and he's a pariah. And a lot of these claims have statutes of limitations unfortunately.
But I consider these careers all ruined, maybe not permanently, but ruined for now at least. And again, maybe it's deserved and some of them have admitted to the acts, but others ruined based on allegations (credible, but what can't be credible?)
Matt Lauer
Bill O'reilly
Steve Wynn
Al Franken
Kevin Spacey
Peter Martins
Jerry Richardson
Danny Masterson
Charlie Rose
Russell Simmons
Louis CK
Roy Moore
Jeremy Piven
Dozens of women accused Weinstein. His response was almost an admission.
Louis CK confessed.
Aziz Ansari was a single allegation of douchey behavior (I don't think sexual assault) and nothing seemed to happen to him. If that post took him down, I'd understand the point.
Most of the guys had dozens of people accusing them. Some confessed, some settled. I don't think those are examples that lead one to being concerned over whether justice is being done too quickly.
Having said that, I've never been that keen on the athletes being draped in the flag. I really am glad that they represent us and I do want to acknowledge that, but the formality of flag etiquette is so contradictory to the display.
Dozens of women accused Weinstein. His response was almost an admission.
Louis CK confessed.
Aziz Ansari was a single allegation of douchey behavior (I don't think sexual assault) and nothing seemed to happen to him. If that post took him down, I'd understand the point.
Most of the guys had dozens of people accusing them. Some confessed, some settled. I don't think those are examples that lead one to being concerned over whether justice is being done too quickly.
I'm not saying justice is being done too quickly, but allegations can certainly hurt, people like Ryan Seacrest, Michael Douglas, and others have been accused, but maintained their innocence.
None of us knows what's true or false, but I believe due process should be the norm, yet somehow we still need an environment where women (or male victims) seem safe and empowered to come forward.
The problem is it's almost impossible to prove you didn't do something. So many of these allegations will come down to he said she said.
But someone like Bill O'Reilly... I'm guessing his audience isn't gonna give much of a shit.
True acts of racism and sexual assault are an abomination and should be dealt with quickly and harshly. Unfortunately, in today's culture, they flourish and hide behind the kind of stupidity that throws the label without thought... The court of public opinion flourishes on social media. The judge and jury rule before the facts are known.
and on cue, the msn website is all over the "Shaun White Scandal"... with opinion pieces about his legacy being tarnished and apologies, etc..
Another pelt on the wall for the perpetually aggrieved.
Plus he.launched his helmet and goggles then got bent when the viewers didn't send them.right back.idiot.
I was there at the beginning..of the sport.. and ...Mr. White...he should move over and let the kids rule snowboarding.
- It's a youth thing. Retire.
All that said. Frigging over the moon for the success of Chloe Kim. She is the best..... in the world!
And Red whatshisname as well. Great! 5'5" 114...and best in the world!
so what exactly is the point of bringing it up now, and during the Olympics no less, other than to feed a narrative that has a lot of attention on it right now (mostly justified)?
To be clear, I am not trying to minimize the reality of this and there are many really lousy individuals whose behaviour deserved a spotlight... but as usual... people have gone too far and are trying to lump everything - no matter how minor (never mind if it is actually true) - into this same bucket.
which means you have Shaun White being painted with the same brush as Weinstein and his ilk.
The article isn't conflating White's behavior with Weinstein, you are. What make you say that the scrutiny has gone too far in this case? And why should White, probably the most famous winter olympian/athlete in the world, be above having his private behavior with women examined?
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what Sean White apparently did was juvenile, dumb and in poor taste. and is also seemingly over.
so what exactly is the point of bringing it up now, and during the Olympics no less, other than to feed a narrative that has a lot of attention on it right now (mostly justified)?
To be clear, I am not trying to minimize the reality of this and there are many really lousy individuals whose behaviour deserved a spotlight... but as usual... people have gone too far and are trying to lump everything - no matter how minor (never mind if it is actually true) - into this same bucket.
which means you have Shaun White being painted with the same brush as Weinstein and his ilk.
The article isn't conflating White's behavior with Weinstein, you are. What make you say that the scrutiny has gone too far in this case? And why should White, probably the most famous winter olympian/athlete in the world, be above having his private behavior with women examined?
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In comment 13832142 LG in NYC said:
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what Sean White apparently did was juvenile, dumb and in poor taste. and is also seemingly over.
so what exactly is the point of bringing it up now, and during the Olympics no less, other than to feed a narrative that has a lot of attention on it right now (mostly justified)?
To be clear, I am not trying to minimize the reality of this and there are many really lousy individuals whose behaviour deserved a spotlight... but as usual... people have gone too far and are trying to lump everything - no matter how minor (never mind if it is actually true) - into this same bucket.
which means you have Shaun White being painted with the same brush as Weinstein and his ilk.
The article isn't conflating White's behavior with Weinstein, you are. What make you say that the scrutiny has gone too far in this case? And why should White, probably the most famous winter olympian/athlete in the world, be above having his private behavior with women examined?
or you and yours for that matter
1) I don't make my money being famous and endorsing products.
2) I'm fine with my past with women being scrutinized.
I thought that was somewhat old news. If so, he's in trouble now for dismissing it so quickly as "gossip". He should have a serious standard response for that type of question, it was an emotional moment for him, but he didn't handle it well.
How hard would it have been for him to say. You know, that is a serious question. I am not a perfect person, but I like to think I learned from my mistakes as I've grown up. Right now, I'd like to celebrate my gold medal, but I'd be happy to talk to the press about this, and the more important issue of the empowerment of women
The #metoo movement is not an over reaction, it is long overdue. If you are making unwanted sexual advances or otherwise treating women with no respect, you have no sympathy from me.
Weinstein/Cosby... These guys aren't even jail.
I can't think of an example where mere allegations took someone down. The punishments haven't been harsh enough for those with lists of accusers.
Senator Al Franken
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Mike Tirico (suspended for sexual harassment) was interviewing White (accused of sexual harassment).
Weinstein/Cosby... These guys aren't even jail.
I can't think of an example where mere allegations took someone down. The punishments haven't been harsh enough for those with lists of accusers.
Senator Al Franken
Quote:
Mike Tirico (suspended for sexual harassment) was interviewing White (accused of sexual harassment).
Weinstein/Cosby... These guys aren't even jail.
I can't think of an example where mere allegations took someone down. The punishments haven't been harsh enough for those with lists of accusers.
Senator Al Franken
FWIW, it wasn't so much public sentiment that pushed Franken into resigning, it was pressure from Senators Gillibrand of New York, Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire, Patty Murray of Washington state and Claire McCaskill of Missouri. Gillbrand stated: I believe it would be better for our country if he sent a clear message that any kind of mistreatment of women in our society isnt acceptable by stepping aside to let someone else serve.
Really? In that case, you should probably think about it some more.
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Really? In that case, you should probably think about it some more.
and on cue, the msn website is all over the "Shaun White Scandal"... with opinion pieces about his legacy being tarnished and apologies, etc..
Another pelt on the wall for the perpetually aggrieved.
Agreed. They hurt the very movements that they are trying to perpetuate.
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In comment 13832379 Bill L said:
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Really? In that case, you should probably think about it some more.
I don't think so. You shouldn't escape for your misdeeds just because you're not famous. You lack of notoriety should not be a shield. And famous people shouldn't be punished more (or less), IMO, for the same misdeeds as regular folks.
Senator Al Franken
FWIW, it wasn't so much public sentiment that pushed Franken into resigning, it was pressure from Senators Gillibrand of New York
.....who said "here's my chance to both score points and knock out a potential 2020 rival."
Fixed it for you.
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In comment 13832172 BrettNYG10 said:
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Mike Tirico (suspended for sexual harassment) was interviewing White (accused of sexual harassment).
Weinstein/Cosby... These guys aren't even jail.
I can't think of an example where mere allegations took someone down. The punishments haven't been harsh enough for those with lists of accusers.
Senator Al Franken
FWIW, it wasn't so much public sentiment that pushed Franken into resigning, it was pressure from Senators Gillibrand of New York, Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire, Patty Murray of Washington state and Claire McCaskill of Missouri. Gillbrand stated: I believe it would be better for our country if he sent a clear message that any kind of mistreatment of women in our society isnt acceptable by stepping aside to let someone else serve.
I didn't say it was public pressure...I agree with you. Those accusations led to his resignation at a time when it was clear his star was rising.
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In comment 13832441 Heisenberg said:
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In comment 13832379 Bill L said:
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.
Really? In that case, you should probably think about it some more.
I don't think so. You shouldn't escape for your misdeeds just because you're not famous. You lack of notoriety should not be a shield. And famous people shouldn't be punished more (or less), IMO, for the same misdeeds as regular folks.
And the lowest and highest are all entitled to due process.
Poor people are awful sometimes too is a weird defense for Shaun White.
Fair, it's really just subterfuge, not a defense.
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took that as a defense of Shaun White, there's probably more questions about your comprehension skills than anything else.
Fair, it's really just subterfuge, not a defense.
It was a pretty simple statement. You said that you would deserve less public scrutiny/due process because you werent a famous athlete. I said that your lack of fame is irrelevant. Its the offense that matters, not the person doing the offense. Its nothing to do with Shaun White, its an equal justice thing.
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In comment 13832645 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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took that as a defense of Shaun White, there's probably more questions about your comprehension skills than anything else.
Fair, it's really just subterfuge, not a defense.
how is it a subterfuge?
It was a pretty simple statement. You said that you would deserve less public scrutiny/due process because you werent a famous athlete. I said that your lack of fame is irrelevant. Its the offense that matters, not the person doing the offense. Its nothing to do with Shaun White, its an equal justice thing.
It's subterfuge because you came to a thread about Shaun White and tried to make it about me and other regular folks who are not Shaun White. That's textbook subterfuge
Of course all men should be held to the same standard. Including myself. It's dumb, however, to expect that they will. Famous people are always under a higher level of scrutiny. This mean that Shaun White's behavior is far more interesting to many than mine. When you present yourself as a public figure, you invite this scrutiny. So, let's not feel bad for Mr. White because people are interested to hear if he's behaved badly.
Held only the very tip and walked through the crowd and muck with 90% dropped and 80% of it dragging. For like ten minutes. It wasn't just some oversite.
Then. Earlier. After his first run. He launched his helmet and goggles into the crowd. Then got bent when the goggles came back without lenses.
It's a great, great sport for the young ones, with a unique vibe. Many if them pride themselves of doing risky maneuvers even if those risk not completing the run aka not winning. But with white, well, he's not young any more. Really wanted gold or nothing. Doesn't fit the spirit of it right now maybe.
Held only the very tip and walked through the crowd and muck with 90% dropped and 80% of it dragging. For like ten minutes. It wasn't just some oversite.
Then. Earlier. After his first run. He launched his helmet and goggles into the crowd. Then got bent when the goggles came back without lenses.
It's a great, great sport for the young ones, with a unique vibe. Many if them pride themselves of doing risky maneuvers even if those risk not completing the run aka not winning. But with white, well, he's not young any more. Really wanted gold or nothing. Doesn't fit the spirit of it right now maybe.
Your opinion is ridiculous and it's the second time you posted it doubling down on your idiocy. He won the gold, and he won the preliminary. He is the best at his sport. In the world.
But because he's not as young as some of the other competitors and he wanted gold or nothing he should leave the sport because he doesn't fit the spirit of it?
What the fuck kind of pussy bullshit is that?
Maybe Tom Brady should step aside and make room for the younger football players, I mean they need a chance to play QB in the NFL too, right? It's a young man's game.
Yes, he was careless with the flag, but again, his intent was not to be disrespectful, look at his other gold medal wins, he has someone in the crowd give him a flag so he can hold it up proudly. If this bothers you and his age bothers you, I think the problem is you.
Do you believe half the shit you write?
Very strange take:
But white, it isn't like he is dragging the flag alone at his ranch. It's in front of the whole world...the North Koreans. Everyone. It's forgivable. But it was noteable also.
But white, it isn't like he is dragging the flag alone at his ranch. It's in front of the whole world...the North Koreans. Everyone. It's forgivable. But it was noteable also.
this is such bullshit. Shaun White is a legend and pioneer in the sport. When he was young, he was the best, everyone tried to emulate his height, his combos, his fearlessness.
Now that he's older he's still the best and people still try and emulate him.
He's like the Michael Jordan of the halfpipe. Or the Tony Hawk of snowboarding.
They all want to win the gold. Every competition, every single one of the competitors wants the gold. They are not there for any other reason. Period. And they all want to get higher, bigger, and more dangerous than the other.
If you watched, you would have seen the Aussie kid (Scottie James) open up with a monster run and a low 90's score, and the announcers noted every time that all the competitors were taking risk to try and beat his score.
you are as clueless on this topic as you are on most topics.
Be careful you're liable to offend someone. Never mind that it would likely be the best thing to ever happen to this race of slobs currently taking up all this planet's space. Pride...can't hurt that. Heaven forbid.
Hurts?
Memorable?
Significant?
Lasting Effects?
Influence others down a path of harm and insult to the community?
As compared to all other things that are happening related to the USA?
now its just imho, but thats a failure of awareness, brain power, perspective and a maladaption to reality.
If that bothers you how do you ever get through a day? Thats some real sensitivity?
Does that more nearly show you are a patriot? or have a flag fetish?
What did you do yesterday to contribute? As for its a disgrace to those who serve. I served....I saw real, genuine bad service, comical thinking and slipshod alertness on behalf of the country and fellow soldiers all around me everyday for years. most people around me saw it and talked about examples all day everyday What service were you in? But, yes the flag did fly.
So some adrenalinized emotion flooded guy attempting to say he was proud to represent ( or he would not have accepted or attempted to identify with the flag) was not hyper alert for two minutes to your peculiar sense of importance?
I dunno, I get much more upset when some singers at the baseball games dont hold that second from the last note of the first stanza of the Star Spangled Banner like Kate Smith did...now thats an insult. Disgrace to the brave men of 1812 and Betsy Ross.
Stars in the right hand, stripes in the left.. make sure its right side up.. careful with the wind.. dont drop it!.. Okay okay, all set.. cool.. now SMILE!! 😄😄 #teamusa #WinterOlympics 📷gettyimages
But she's 22 and a skiier, and doesn't have the fun of just doing tricks for the hell of it, medals as a side benefit....
She needs the medals!
Because we don't care about anything else once an athlete produces results.
Michael Vick is a scumbag, but I'd root him on if he brought the Giants a Superbowl. Most Giants fans would as well.
White's a winner and marketable. During competition, that is going to trump everything else.
Sure, we can deal with it now...but the vast majority of the general public is never going to watch or root for him again.