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NFT: All things Neapolitan Pizza

Young Elijah : 2/14/2018 11:02 am
Hi All- Fairly slow time of year so why not discuss one of the world's greatest foods :). I started and contributed to a few threads a while back on "at home pizza making" as I was just kicking off my pizza obsession.

Since then it has really taken off. I have the whole set up - Blackstone pizza oven, thermometer gun, pizza peels, and a proof box.

Ingredients- The wife has tolerated my 60lbs bag of Caputo 00 flour I bought on Amazon, San Marzano Tomatoes (Costco), and fresh basil and the cheese either comes in the form of great $4 a lbs (half price everywhere else) fresh mozz balls or on a couple of occasions I have purchased the curd and made my own mozz at home - more to come on this one.

Initially, I started out as a purist, only making traditional Neapolitan pies - the wife and I spent 10 days in Italy (from Florence to Capri) where I took multiple pizza classes and ate pizza about 12 times in every city we stopped. Since then, I have let the creative juice flow a bit and expanded into more "American" style pie combos. Take a look at my IG pics in the attached- I havent posted my most recent pies but will do soon.

A few points things I was hoping to get input/people's experiences with were:

A) A wood fire oven - do you have one? Have you bought or built? Any insight into brand/ style/ kit to buy? I am leaning towards a Pizza Party oven but open to anything in the $1K range.

B) Homemade Mozzarella - How do I get soft supple cheese? Mine is always hard and rubbery - it melts well, but I want the feel of buffalo mozz if possible. I am doing the standard warm, hot boiling water (and added cream) routine, stretching the cheese, balling it and cooling it in salt water. Anything I am missing here?

C) Why isn't there more good traditional pizza in the US/Tristate area? I know Gino Sorbillo just came to NYC and is a must try for everyone but I feel like there is an opportunity for an east coast fast-casual joint - do you agree? This is a long-term passion project of mine I hope to invest in and run.
IG Pizza Pics - ( New Window )
Looks good  
bigblue12 : 2/14/2018 11:37 am : link
I am going to be hopefully getting a roccbox soon and share your passion. I am in the very beginning stages though
This post will be taken as the uneducated Filthy from the south  
GiantFilthy : 2/14/2018 11:41 am : link
who has never eaten a decent meal since he wasn't born in the northeast but that shit needs cheese and I don't see the appeal of having two or three bites of the pizza putting a leaf in my mouth.

I just don't get neapolitan pizza.
BigBlue  
Young Elijah : 2/14/2018 11:59 am : link
I did a lot of research on the ovens heres my takes. The Blackstone is the easiest to manage/use if you dont want a super portable oven. For beginners the Roccbox is tough bc you have spin the pizza and I have found that almost all pies get overcooked on it bc there is so much heat coming the back burner.

The blackstones rotating floor makes it super easy. There's videos on my IG link actually you can see.

I also suggest this bc of price. You can find the blackstone for around $250 (I am actually selling mine if interested ;) so I can upgrade to wood-fired) whereas the Roccbox is double that - with less surface area as well.

If you are willing to drop $500, I would get the Uuni pro - much more versatile, bigger, and same portability.

Filthy where in the south are you located? Some of the best most authentic pizza I have had was in Atlanta - Pizza Antico. Amazing food, you wont look at Neapolitan the same.
Pizza Antico - ( New Window )
Now those Antico pictures look delicious!  
GiantFilthy : 2/14/2018 12:00 pm : link
.
just dont get pizza  
gm7b5 : 2/14/2018 12:10 pm : link
its bread cheese and sauce, its cool, but its like crack in this usa. THAts just me. Too each their own i guess.
Not quite that simple though.  
GiantFilthy : 2/14/2018 12:12 pm : link
Quote:
just dont get pizza
gm7b5 : 12:10 pm : link : reply
its bread cheese and sauce, its cool, but its like crack in this usa. THAts just me. Too each their own i guess.

With the endless variety of breads, cheeses and sauces I'm sure there is a recipe out there for you.

Just no pineapple.
RE: just dont get pizza  
Kevin in Annapolis : 2/14/2018 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13832194 gm7b5 said:
Quote:
its bread cheese and sauce, its cool, but its like crack in this usa. THAts just me. Too each their own i guess.


that's just like, your opinion man
My wife gave me the Uuni3 for Christmas.  
smshmth8690 : 2/14/2018 12:30 pm : link
Can't wait to give it try. I also have the Big Green Egg, and while friends of mine have had great success, I can't seem to get the hang of it. The Uuni looks like it's an easier operation.
RE: My wife gave me the Uuni3 for Christmas.  
pjcas18 : 2/14/2018 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13832232 smshmth8690 said:
Quote:
Can't wait to give it try. I also have the Big Green Egg, and while friends of mine have had great success, I can't seem to get the hang of it. The Uuni looks like it's an easier operation.


Report back on the uuni. I looked into it, I mean 90 seconds for a pizza in a 900 degree oven sounds perfect for what I'd like to do. Only complaints I've seen are that the bottom either doesn't get hot enough or retain heat well enough so the crust isn't done at the same time the toppings are or it's not done enough.

Would love to hear your results.
smshmth8690 pjcas is right  
Young Elijah : 2/14/2018 12:50 pm : link
I dont believe the stone gets to the proper temp needed for a nice even cooking - if its still new, swap it for the Pro!

Another reason I like the blackstone is the flame comes from the bottom up - similar to the set up for a dome wood fire oven.
For the record, in case people don't know (or care)  
pjcas18 : 2/14/2018 12:57 pm : link
New Haven pizza, what i consider best on the planet, is Neapolitan pizza. they use a slight twist, and have generally a slightly blackened thinner chewy crust, not doughy at all and not overloaded with sauce.

Most authentic NY pizza is neapolitan too.
Not a big fan of pizza that’s super chewy and soggy  
UConn4523 : 2/14/2018 1:00 pm : link
which most Neopolitan is.
I love my Uuni  
T in NJ : 2/14/2018 1:03 pm : link
My wife got me mine last year for my birthday. I love it and use it regularly, including taking it to tailgates.

A couple of things from my experiences:

- The oven can get in The 900-1000° so be careful with the dough. I make mine with just 00 flour, yeast, water and a pinch of salt. The dough would start to burn before the cheese melted when I used recipes with sugar or olive oil.

- Make sure to keep checking the pellet hopper every two pizzas, it seems to know when you’re not paying attention and will run through it’s fuel.

- I bought a wood pizza peel to make the pizzas on and steel peel for moving the pizza while and after it cooks. It usually takes about 90 to 120 seconds to come out perfect.
UConn4523 you know not of what you speak of!  
Young Elijah : 2/14/2018 1:14 pm : link
Yes Neapolitan is a bit flopping in compared to NY Cheesy bread (aka a NY Slice - which I can eat 16 of at any given sitting) but soggy and chewy it is not.

Neapolitan is about minimal toppings and letting the pure essence of the flavors meld together to make a beautiful symphony of deliciousness in every bite - was that too much? Haha

If the Neapolitan is soggy, its because you didnt eat it fast enough - if you dont burn your mouth, youre too slow - the pizza was covered and steamed, or overdressed - a common cardinal sin.

You are welcome to central NJ anytime to try a pie, I assure you I have converted many a NY slice fan.

T in NJ - whats your recipe? 60% hydration? >1% yeast? (live or dry active?) 5% salt?
I know what I speak of  
UConn4523 : 2/14/2018 1:19 pm : link
making it at home is probably alright but I’ll never order it at a restaurant. Had too many in Manhattan I didn’t like. Whether it sat to long or not, the experience was the same. It’s just very doughy to me even if it’s thin.
Oh my  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/14/2018 1:21 pm : link
I shouldn't have openned this thread -- The saddest thing that has ever happened to me is that I have become gluten intollerant in my old dotage.

I miss real pizza so much -- sigh!!!
So not a fan of Pepe's, Modern, Sally's  
pjcas18 : 2/14/2018 1:25 pm : link
etc. in New Haven?

It's not for everyone, but New Haven pizza is very closely related to Neapolitan.

This is a Neapolitan pie from Pepe's:



so is this from Modern:



and this from Sallys:

gidiefor if youre ever in cali stop by this guys spot  
Young Elijah : 2/14/2018 1:34 pm : link
I learned a lot from his videos and want to take a trip out west to see him up close. His gluten free pies look the best ive seen.
Gluten Free - ( New Window )
I’ve had them  
UConn4523 : 2/14/2018 1:35 pm : link
they are much better than from a place like Motorinos in NYC which I hated.
I've only eaten  
pjcas18 : 2/14/2018 1:50 pm : link
at John's on Bleeker in NY and it wasn't awful, I thought the dough was chewier and too much cheese, but I've eaten way worse pizza, in fact the 5 years I lived in Northern Virginia I didn't eat a pizza close to as good as that one from John's.

When I lived in NoVa everyone there kept saying "you need to go this place" and I'd go and it would be terrible, frozen crust pizza or just bad in general.

and John's isn't the best in NY from what I hear, but it's not close to New Haven.

if you don't like chewy crust, a couple times when my family has been in Burlington, VT or Portsmouth, NH we ate at a place called American Flatbread (Burlington) or the Flatbread company (Portsmouth, NH). All supposed to be locally sourced/organic ingredients, on a crispy flat crust, and it's decent for what it is, and some people may prefer that.

there was an American Flatbread in Manhattan, but it didn't last.

When outside the New Haven area I'd go there.
RE: I've only eaten  
sundayatone : 2/14/2018 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13832338 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
at John's on Bleeker in NY and it wasn't awful, I thought the dough was chewier and too much cheese, but I've eaten way worse pizza, in fact the 5 years I lived in Northern Virginia I didn't eat a pizza close to as good as that one from John's.

When I lived in NoVa everyone there kept saying "you need to go this place" and I'd go and it would be terrible, frozen crust pizza or just bad in general.

and John's isn't the best in NY from what I hear, but it's not close to New Haven.

if you don't like chewy crust, a couple times when my family has been in Burlington, VT or Portsmouth, NH we ate at a place called American Flatbread (Burlington) or the Flatbread company (Portsmouth, NH). All supposed to be locally sourced/organic ingredients, on a crispy flat crust, and it's decent for what it is, and some people may prefer that.

there was an American Flatbread in Manhattan, but it didn't last.

When outside the New Haven area I'd go there.


bleecker st pizza across the st from johns,grab n go,thank me later.
What happened to that Sallys' pizza?  
GiantFilthy : 2/14/2018 2:49 pm : link
Is it sick?
I prefer Boboli pizza.  
Ryan in Albany : 2/14/2018 2:53 pm : link
.
RE: What happened to that Sallys' pizza?  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2018 2:59 pm : link
In comment 13832403 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
Is it sick?


It appears to be only half made
RE: What happened to that Sallys' pizza?  
pjcas18 : 2/14/2018 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13832403 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
Is it sick?


That's how their pizza looks, tastes great though. Here are some more:

RE: BigBlue  
bigblue12 : 2/14/2018 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13832183 Young Elijah said:
Quote:
I did a lot of research on the ovens heres my takes. The Blackstone is the easiest to manage/use if you dont want a super portable oven. For beginners the Roccbox is tough bc you have spin the pizza and I have found that almost all pies get overcooked on it bc there is so much heat coming the back burner.

The blackstones rotating floor makes it super easy. There's videos on my IG link actually you can see.

I also suggest this bc of price. You can find the blackstone for around $250 (I am actually selling mine if interested ;) so I can upgrade to wood-fired) whereas the Roccbox is double that - with less surface area as well.

If you are willing to drop $500, I would get the Uuni pro - much more versatile, bigger, and same portability.

Filthy where in the south are you located? Some of the best most authentic pizza I have had was in Atlanta - Pizza Antico. Amazing food, you wont look at Neapolitan the same. Pizza Antico - ( New Window )


I originally was going to get the Uuni, but the more I read about the roccbox and people who switched to it and their satisfaction. The thing about the Blackstone I have rad is that the motor burns out. Still mulling it over, but the Blackstone does seem to be a really good value.
Link - ( New Window )
So burning the hell out of the crust is part of the experience, huh?  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2018 3:13 pm : link
I'll pass
RE: So burning the hell out of the crust is part of the experience, huh?  
pjcas18 : 2/14/2018 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13832457 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I'll pass

it's delicious. and they don't burn the hell out of it there is usually a slight char.

a slight char?  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2018 3:48 pm : link
All around the crust in the pic you posted looks pretty black to me.
That char tastes damn fine though.  
giantsfaninphilly : 2/14/2018 3:55 pm : link
...
Char on thicker pizza is good  
UConn4523 : 2/14/2018 3:57 pm : link
but on very thin Neapolitan pizza it’s all you taste. I’ll reference Motorinos again where all I tasted was chewy char which sucked ass.
RE: RE: My wife gave me the Uuni3 for Christmas.  
smshmth8690 : 2/14/2018 4:01 pm : link
In comment 13832236 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13832232 smshmth8690 said:


Quote:


Can't wait to give it try. I also have the Big Green Egg, and while friends of mine have had great success, I can't seem to get the hang of it. The Uuni looks like it's an easier operation.



Report back on the uuni. I looked into it, I mean 90 seconds for a pizza in a 900 degree oven sounds perfect for what I'd like to do. Only complaints I've seen are that the bottom either doesn't get hot enough or retain heat well enough so the crust isn't done at the same time the toppings are or it's not done enough.

Would love to hear your results.


Will do. I've read where you have to let the stone heat up for 20-30 minutes to make sure the bottom cooks. Hopefully I'll get to use it this weekend.
RE: Char on thicker pizza is good  
giantsfaninphilly : 2/14/2018 4:14 pm : link
In comment 13832553 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but on very thin Neapolitan pizza it’s all you taste. I’ll reference Motorinos again where all I tasted was chewy char which sucked ass.


I'll defer the nuances of charring to the guys that live in places where you can get consistently good pizza. I live in the Philly burbs and it's almost all mediocre out here. There's only one place near me that has wood-fired and compared to everything else it's orgasmic.
RE: gidiefor if youre ever in cali stop by this guys spot  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/14/2018 7:05 pm : link
In comment 13832316 Young Elijah said:
Quote:
I learned a lot from his videos and want to take a trip out west to see him up close. His gluten free pies look the best ive seen. Gluten Free - ( New Window )


Thank you for posting that -- maybe there's hope after all -- there were actually a bunch of videos on the right that were equally interesting and gave me a few ideas -- hey I'm excited -- Pizza!!!!
French clay really retains the heat I’m told.  
mattlawson : 2/14/2018 10:28 pm : link
Neapolitan pizza is::

1) cooked for 90 seconds - 2 minutes

2) a wood fired oven

3) high gluten flour helps

4) 850 degrees

I don’t know what to tell you beyond that. Make your own oven out of cinder blocks and French clay. Some of the best pizza I’ve had is that way.
Young Elijah  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/22/2018 7:07 pm : link
I did it! I went from that guys video in Cal - to the Italian chefs with you tube videos on the side - and found Caputo's Gluten free pizza flour and the steel stone.

I made my first gluten free pizza tonite from scratch and it was awesome --- amazing texture I never thought I'd have again -- I am in heaven. Haven't eaten real pizza since being diagnosed with Celiac's Disease six years ago. I'm a guy who grew up in Brooklyn the land of real pizza. It's a Jones that goes all the way back to my childhood.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!
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