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FWIW: PFF Compares Rosen to Manning and Winston

gidiefor : Mod : 2/14/2018 11:08 pm
....For What It's Worth


Incredible Accuracy Mixed with Head Scratching Throws - ( New Window )
Eli has never been as accurate or mechanically sound as Rosen  
The_Boss : 2/14/2018 11:18 pm : link
I also think Darnold is a lot closer to Eli when you think about the “WTF was that?” sort of turnovers. That being said, I’d be quite content with either of the 2 at 2.
RE: Eli has never been as accurate or mechanically sound as Rosen  
allstarjim : 2/14/2018 11:21 pm : link
In comment 13832935 The_Boss said:
Quote:
I also think Darnold is a lot closer to Eli when you think about the “WTF was that?” sort of turnovers. That being said, I’d be quite content with either of the 2 at 2.


Watch Darnold's Stanford game.
Will Darnold be Eli Manning  
SHO'NUFF : 2/14/2018 11:25 pm : link
with speed?
Will Darnold be Eli Manning  
mrvax : 2/14/2018 11:36 pm : link
but just a different person?
To be honest  
NYG07 : 2/14/2018 11:36 pm : link
I am incredibly intrigued by all 3 of Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield. They all have their flaws but they all also have big time potential. I do believe the Giants will take one of those 3 at 2.

Rosen is the prototype pocket NFL QB. But injuries and lack of mobility are a concern. Darnold is the gun slinger who makes poor decisions but potentially the highest upside. Mayfield is the hot head who is the most accurate. If he were 2 inches taller I think he would be hands down the highest rated prospect. It is going to be a fun couple of months heading into the draft.

And for the Allen fans, yes I intentionally left him out. I have a huge issue with his completion % in college translating to the NFL.
RE: RE: Eli has never been as accurate or mechanically sound as Rosen  
The_Boss : 2/14/2018 11:41 pm : link
In comment 13832938 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 13832935 The_Boss said:


Quote:


I also think Darnold is a lot closer to Eli when you think about the “WTF was that?” sort of turnovers. That being said, I’d be quite content with either of the 2 at 2.



Watch Darnold's Stanford game.


I watched that game live in December. He was great, no doubt. But, like Eli, he ran hot and cold last season at USC. I could be wrong, but I think Rosen is the safer bet to be more consistent from game to game and year to year. I love Eli and all he’s accomplished, but let’s be frank: most of us were concerned which Eli was showing up on a week to week basis. His inconsistency definitely played a significant role in why this team usually fell somewhere between 8/9 wins most years (and significantly worse over the last 5 years). Maybe getting more consistently good qb play will find the team winning 11 games or more on a regular basis? I don’t want to worry about my QB the next 12-15 years like I have with Eli. I think Rosen is the guy who will alleviate that concern.
Darnold responds after throwing an INT  
est1986 : 2/14/2018 11:41 pm : link
Couple times I have seen a WTF Eli INT early in the game but then he bounces right back and does some amazing stuff. Creative avoiding the rush, good anticipation, can make some ‘wow’ throws and he can make something out of nothing.
From NFLDraftScout.com (Rob Rang)  
Milton : 2/15/2018 12:06 am : link
Quote:
COMPARES TO:Hall of Fame's Dan Marino, Dolphins - Comparing anyone to arguably the greatest passer in NFL history is obviously lofty praise but Rosen's quick release, velocity and ball placement on passes to all areas of the field is exceedingly rare.
The one thing I don't get  
allstarjim : 2/15/2018 12:20 am : link
Is why Darnold keeps getting this "poor decisions" or "turnover-prone" label but Rosen is this polished passer that doesn't get the same level of criticism.

There are INTs that Rosen has thrown that I can't understand why he would make that decision. Watch Mark Schofield's YouTube video on Rosen's INTs. The one in the 3rd quarter of the Memphis game is a total mental breakdown. Like, wtf are you doing kind of throw.

The 4th quarter INT against Stanford...just lobs it up to no one...safety comes over and picks it off. And he threw this one from a totally clean pocket.

The throw that troubles me the most about Rosen is the third quarter INT against Colorado. This is not a terribly difficult throw. And Schofield focused on him not moving the safety but I think he misses the mark. It's just a really, really bad throw. He had plenty of time. And this is where I wonder when he needs to get that extra juice on the ball, or power it down the field, that maybe he doesn't have it. Perhaps his shoulder wasn't right. Because he had all the time, he steps into the throw, and a throw that needs to be over the shoulder towards the sideline and deep is under thrown and to the inside of the field and an easy pick for the safety. He throws that ball just 42 yards in the air. Weak sauce. Darnold makes that throw sleepwalking. If that's a 50-55 yard throw toward the sideline it's a big play and perhaps a TD. And that's one of the throws that really make me question if Rosen has all the tools. That was a noodle-armed throw and it's not just a little off, it's a good 10 yards off and placed on the wrong shoulder anyway.

The 2nd INT against 'Zona...I am not seeing the juice. That's a power arm throw that doesn't seem to have the power.

And the problem I have is that many of these throws aren't under duress. They are clean pocket misses.

I have no problem with criticism of some of Darnold's throws. But he could put it downfield 55 yards on his man on the outside. I think all Rosen has is 50 yards on a straight line downfield. From what I've seen so far. And if you're going to knock Darnold for being a guy that makes bad throwing decisions, you have to do the same with Rosen.

Because you know, I don't see Rosen making the plays Darnold does when protection breaks down. Darnold makes a lot of plays out of nothing.
RE: RE: Eli has never been as accurate or mechanically sound as Rosen  
Breeze_94 : 2/15/2018 12:29 am : link
In comment 13832938 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 13832935 The_Boss said:


Quote:


I also think Darnold is a lot closer to Eli when you think about the “WTF was that?” sort of turnovers. That being said, I’d be quite content with either of the 2 at 2.



Watch Darnold's Stanford game.


Also check out the Colorado game for Darnold. Some of the best QB tape you'll see.
RE: The one thing I don't get  
Breeze_94 : 2/15/2018 12:34 am : link
In comment 13832958 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Is why Darnold keeps getting this "poor decisions" or "turnover-prone" label but Rosen is this polished passer that doesn't get the same level of criticism.

There are INTs that Rosen has thrown that I can't understand why he would make that decision. Watch Mark Schofield's YouTube video on Rosen's INTs. The one in the 3rd quarter of the Memphis game is a total mental breakdown. Like, wtf are you doing kind of throw.

The 4th quarter INT against Stanford...just lobs it up to no one...safety comes over and picks it off. And he threw this one from a totally clean pocket.

The throw that troubles me the most about Rosen is the third quarter INT against Colorado. This is not a terribly difficult throw. And Schofield focused on him not moving the safety but I think he misses the mark. It's just a really, really bad throw. He had plenty of time. And this is where I wonder when he needs to get that extra juice on the ball, or power it down the field, that maybe he doesn't have it. Perhaps his shoulder wasn't right. Because he had all the time, he steps into the throw, and a throw that needs to be over the shoulder towards the sideline and deep is under thrown and to the inside of the field and an easy pick for the safety. He throws that ball just 42 yards in the air. Weak sauce. Darnold makes that throw sleepwalking. If that's a 50-55 yard throw toward the sideline it's a big play and perhaps a TD. And that's one of the throws that really make me question if Rosen has all the tools. That was a noodle-armed throw and it's not just a little off, it's a good 10 yards off and placed on the wrong shoulder anyway.

The 2nd INT against 'Zona...I am not seeing the juice. That's a power arm throw that doesn't seem to have the power.

And the problem I have is that many of these throws aren't under duress. They are clean pocket misses.

I have no problem with criticism of some of Darnold's throws. But he could put it downfield 55 yards on his man on the outside. I think all Rosen has is 50 yards on a straight line downfield. From what I've seen so far. And if you're going to knock Darnold for being a guy that makes bad throwing decisions, you have to do the same with Rosen.

Because you know, I don't see Rosen making the plays Darnold does when protection breaks down. Darnold makes a lot of plays out of nothing.


eh being able to throw the ball 60 yards in the air is overrated. Eli hasn't been able to do that for 4 or 5 years now. Peyton couldn't do it for the last several years of his career. It's a nice thing to have in your arsenal, but not necessary. That being said- I've seen Rosen throw the ball 60+ yards in the air and hit a receiver in stride several times. He is not lacking arm strength at all. He can throw the deep post, throw the deep out on a line, and thread the needle over the middle. His velocity is great. Tight spiral that cuts through the air and jumps out of his hand. Couple that with a quick release, and great ball placement, and he is the best thrower of the football in this class.
To be honest  
Breeze_94 : 2/15/2018 12:40 am : link
I worry more about Darnold throwing the deep ball than I do Rosen.

With Darnold, the ball seems to hang in the air a bit allowing the defenders to make a play. He seems to max out around 55 yards, which is fine, but not elite by any means. Not that it is the most important attribute, like I said in the post above.

But Darnolds deep ball- it seems like he really needs to get a lot into the throw and put a ton of air under it at times. His Pac 12 Championship game vs Stanford- he left one deep ball to an open receiver short (about 53-54 yards in the air) allowing the DB to almost make an INT. Then, a few plays later, has a receiver streaking down the sideline wide open and uncorks a deep ball with everything he has- ball goes 54-55 yards in the air, receiver has to wait on it and make a catch while going to the ground, preventing him from scoring an easy TD (Although he was down at the 1). Just looking at Darnolds game films, he doesn't seem to be as natural of a deep ball thrower as Rosen is, but he is way more effective than Rosen while throwing on the run/making plays with his feet. I also think he has some untapped potential in his arm- he needs to work on his base (footwork is sloppy, doesn't step into his throws and needs to tighten up his core/tuck his front arm) so that he can get more into his throws when he has a clean pocket.
Were it not for the concussions, shoulder and personality questions  
Phil in LA : 2/15/2018 12:54 am : link
I'd have Rosen above Darnold, but Darnold seems cleaner, coachable, like a great kid, and able to make those clutch Eli type throws that won us 2 SB's. Whoever we do take, will improve under Shurmur and Shula.
I admittedly have not watched much  
chopperhatch : 2/15/2018 1:06 am : link
Of either play in college. But what I have seen is that while both have the gifts to be great, Darnold has mobility, that stone faced filler look about him as well as he seems that he will be eager to learn from Eli for at least a year. Sam has all the tools and I dont think his mistakes are from jitters as much as he wants to/feels he needs to be great all thetime and immediately. I think when he has guys like Shep, ODB, Engram to throw to and gets a run game, he is going to be lethal. He has the ice cold assassin of Eli in him, the talent of maybe Rodgers and could be one of the great ones.

Yea, he could bust. Rosen could get another concussion in October. But this guy just screams to me that he is the guy. Clean medical. Mobile. Arm. Head. And while he doesnt know it yet, he is going to want to be up there with the greats.

Please oh please let me root for him on Sundays.
Funny  
Giantfan in skinland : 2/15/2018 1:08 am : link
Was listening to the move the sticks podcast this am (Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks) and they compared Darnold to Winston.
Breeze_94  
allstarjim : 2/15/2018 2:38 am : link
I did see a couple of throws to the middle of the field in which Rosen throws it between 55-60 yards. By the way, Darnold can chuck it 60 yards. He throws one against Stanford. About 1:14 left in the 2nd quarter, just before the half, he flings it from his 19, caught by Mitchell at the plus 27 yard line. That's 54 yards in the air...except he throws it from the opposite hash to the numbers on the other side of the field. And that means that ball goes at least 60 yards in the air.

I feel the complete opposite of you. I think Darnold has easy power, and when he throws the fastball, it just comes out with more life, and he can do it from off-platforms, which I don't see from Rosen. The first TD against Penn State in the bowl game last year, Darnold throws a 31 yard pass on the move, splitting the safeties in a tight and window for a touchdown, an off-platform throw requiring zip and he just throws a strike. You can see that throw, it's the very first TD of the game against Penn State. Please show me one play like that from Rosen. Maybe it's out there and I just need to see him do it. Heck, I'm wrong from time to time. But I see Darnold make those kinds of throws routinely.
Another pass against Colorado  
allstarjim : 2/15/2018 2:55 am : link
Fell incomplete but 58 yards in the air.
RE: Breeze_94  
Milton : 2/15/2018 3:33 am : link
In comment 13832971 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Please show me one play like that from Rosen. Maybe it's out there and I just need to see him do it.
Throwing on the move isn't Rosen's strength, but here's a pretty good throw he makes moving to his left. There are also some pretty damn good throws that follow in the video, but they are all from within the pocket.
Cued up to the relevant time marker.... - ( New Window )
RE: Breeze_94  
Milton : 2/15/2018 3:45 am : link
In comment 13832971 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Please show me one play like that from Rosen. Maybe it's out there and I just need to see him do it.
Check out the below video on Rosen's vertical game...
Especially the first throw off his back foot with pressure in his face - ( New Window )
Allstarjim and Breeze -  
Diver_Down : 2/15/2018 6:01 am : link
In comment 13832960 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
In comment 13832938 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 13832935 The_Boss said:


Quote:


I also think Darnold is a lot closer to Eli when you think about the “WTF was that?” sort of turnovers. That being said, I’d be quite content with either of the 2 at 2.



Watch Darnold's Stanford game.



Also check out the Colorado game for Darnold. Some of the best QB tape you'll see.


Which game would you suggest to watch where Sammy treats the ball like a game of bocci? Because in the Cotton Bowl, he was able to pad his season total turnovers to 22. Despite his abnormally large head, he has doll hands that lack grip strength.
If Darnold was so "coachable" then why hasnt  
twostepgiants : 2/15/2018 6:57 am : link
Anyone fixed these mechanics & footwork issues that are suppossedly so easy to fix?

If Rosen has so many "personality issues" ie difficult to coach then why does he have such perfect mechanics & footwork?

Those arent the type of gifts one is born with. They need to be learned & mastered.
RE: To be honest  
NikkiMac : 2/15/2018 7:43 am : link
In comment 13832944 NYG07 said:
Quote:
I am incredibly intrigued by all 3 of Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield. They all have their flaws but they all also have big time potential. I do believe the Giants will take one of those 3 at 2.

Rosen is the prototype pocket NFL QB. But injuries and lack of mobility are a concern. Darnold is the gun slinger who makes poor decisions but potentially the highest upside. Mayfield is the hot head who is the muost accurate. If he were 2 inches taller I think he would be hands down the highest rated prospect. It is going to be a fun couple of months heading into the draft.

And for the Allen fans, yes I intentionally left him out. I have a huge issue with his completion % in college translating to the NFL.



I wouldn’t sleep on Allen either...NFL receivers will catch the ball something he lacked a lot at Wyoming ...... And I wouldn’t sleep on Mason Rudolph either..... anyway let’s hope they all go in the first round better for Gmen
The QB reports I am making for BBI  
Sy'56 : 2/15/2018 7:46 am : link
Rosen and Eli are woefully similar
RE: The QB reports I am making for BBI  
Joey in VA : 2/15/2018 7:54 am : link
In comment 13833008 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Rosen and Eli are woefully similar
I assume you mean awfully?
RE: The QB reports I am making for BBI  
Diver_Down : 2/15/2018 7:55 am : link
In comment 13833008 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Rosen and Eli are woefully similar


We can only hope.
Manning Scouting Report - ( New Window )
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/15/2018 8:12 am : link
what the hell does this mean??

Quote:
The QB reports I am making for BBI
Sy'56 : 7:46 am : link : reply
Rosen and Eli are woefully similar


Unless Rosen is a statue like Eli but then can't throw the ball or make plays, I'm not sure why it would be phrased negatively.

You make it sound like eli is a bad comparison for any QB coming out. We aren't talking about a QB who is "woefully" deficient in skills other than his scrambling.
Loving  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 2/15/2018 8:20 am : link
Eli drilling that Eagles fan!
The one pick he threw in the Memphis game  
jeff57 : 2/15/2018 8:22 am : link
when he threw across his body and the field was terrible. But over all, the guy makes all the throws.
RE: The QB reports I am making for BBI  
jeff57 : 2/15/2018 8:24 am : link
In comment 13833008 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Rosen and Eli are woefully similar


He does remind me of Eli in a lot of ways. Both good and bad. But I'll take 2 more super bowls.
They all have flaws and they all have risks  
Bill L : 2/15/2018 8:25 am : link
which is why I have a tough time believing that these are Andrew Luck guys as opposed to forcing a pick of best QB of a lot because, hey, it's a QB. That's not what I want as compensation for having an awful team.
Darnold vs Rosen  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 2/15/2018 8:26 am : link
I understand the interest in Darnold, and I would not be unhappy if we drafted him. I just think Rosen is the more talented passer. The idea that he is not athletic is ridiculous. He has the footwork to be successful as a pocket passer and the necessary speed to scramble effectively when he has to. The fact that Rosen does not scramble often but hangs in the pocket behind that terrible OL is a plus in my opinion. He knows how to throw under pressure. In contrast, Baker Mayfield throws under pressure about once a game. 90% of the time Mayfield throws over the middle to a wide open WR from an extraordinarily clean pocket.

If all three are on the board, I'm taking Rosen.
When reading comparisons of QBs to Eli, consistency is pretty big.  
Ivan15 : 2/15/2018 8:46 am : link
We can all agree, Eli is very inconsistent from game to game and even from play to play.

Most of the fan base accepts that inconsistency and has traded it for 2 SUper Bowls that few QBs could have pulled off. So if winning Super Bowls every 5-7 years is your primary goal, which QB steps up in “the big game?”
trade down a few spots  
Dave : 2/15/2018 9:03 am : link
this team needs too many players to not add picks, imo
RE: They all have flaws and they all have risks  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/15/2018 9:05 am : link
In comment 13833028 Bill L said:
Quote:
which is why I have a tough time believing that these are Andrew Luck guys as opposed to forcing a pick of best QB of a lot because, hey, it's a QB. That's not what I want as compensation for having an awful team.


No professional analyst has tried to say they're andrew luck type prospects. That doesn't mean they're not very legitimate QB prospects though. Andrew Luck was considered to be a generational QB prospect.
Comparisons of QBs  
Archer : 2/15/2018 9:09 am : link
I think that most of the negative commentary on the QBs is myopic.

You can pick apart any player. If you focus on the bad plays "you will not see the forest through the trees".

There are no perfect QBs, they are all projects in development.

What we can do is to see what the player does particularly well. What is his skill set. Is there room for improvement, and are the problems correctable.

I have watched a lot of college football and seen the top QBs play multiple times. I do not have a preference at this time. I like all of the top three QBs and I expect that the Giants will do their research and develop a hierarchy.

Accuracy  
Archer : 2/15/2018 9:17 am : link
I read the article about Rosen and I have one observation.

In watching Rosen and Allen, their receivers dropped an inordinate amount of passes. Passes that were perfectly thrown but were dropped and in some instances turned into interceptions.

In Rosen's case this seemed to occur on the long throws.
I wish that in the accuracy analysis they had a dropped pass factor
Analysts  
David B. : 2/15/2018 10:43 am : link
absolutely HATE when QBs "take chances" and it turns into picks. And to a degree, so do fans.

OTOH, Coaches hate picks and dumb decisions, but coaches do NOT want franchise QBs to "play safe." The best QBs of all time -- ALL of them threw boatloads of picks. Gunslinger types like Favre, and surgical types like Marino. They both threw loads of picks. They never seem to get degraded for that.

Parcells famously told Simms to "don't be afraid to take chances . . . and let it rip." I am certain Eli has been told similar things during his career. These guys are trying to WIN GAMES and make things happen in the moment. They're not worrying about creating wonderful personal statistics to review at the end of a season. They'd all rather throw 3 picks in a game they WIN than none in a game they lose.

Guys with laser arms like Rosen ARE going to take chances based on their confidence in their arm skills. And this is exactly what good coaches want them to do. That why you get these guys in the first place. The price for that is going to be some picks, but as long as their decisions aren't too boneheaded.
If there’s a desire for more RPO in our offense,  
Simms11 : 2/15/2018 10:51 am : link
which appears to be the newest fad, then Rosen’s not your guy. With that said, he’s very much like Eli in that respect, but he throws a much better ball then Eli. Eli’s thrown ducks 🦆 through his whole career. What amazes me is that Eli’s ducks normally get to the right spot! Anyway, Rosen having that comparison is not a bad thing. Biggest concern for me is not even the medicals, but Rosen’s desire to be the best, an NFL Champ. He may not even have that starving desire that DG and Shurmur talk about. Mayfield is that guy IMO.
RE: If Darnold was so  
allstarjim : 2/15/2018 10:54 am : link
In comment 13832991 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Anyone fixed these mechanics & footwork issues that are suppossedly so easy to fix?

If Rosen has so many "personality issues" ie difficult to coach then why does he have such perfect mechanics & footwork?

Those arent the type of gifts one is born with. They need to be learned & mastered.


Darnold doesn't need to be fixed. He can just get only better. But what he does with the ball can't be taught.
Sign me up  
adamg : 2/15/2018 11:01 am : link
For Eli 2.0
RE: RE: Breeze_94  
allstarjim : 2/15/2018 12:47 pm : link
In comment 13832975 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13832971 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Please show me one play like that from Rosen. Maybe it's out there and I just need to see him do it.

Throwing on the move isn't Rosen's strength, but here's a pretty good throw he makes moving to his left. There are also some pretty damn good throws that follow in the video, but they are all from within the pocket. Cued up to the relevant time marker.... - ( New Window )


That is a good throw, I've seen some of these...this is a 14 yard pass that goes about 17 yards in the air. He also put it into a tight window. Again, good throw. I don't think it's a good answer to the TD throw I described that was nearly double the distance on the throw and on the money between defenders. It's the difference between good and special. I was looking for something from Rosen on par. The other throw you linked, the throw against Washington off his back foot, is the best throw I think I've seen Rosen make. That's a 44-yard throw off the back foot to the sideline from the opposite hash and he puts it on his man. That's a great, great throw.

I want to see more great throws from him from an unsteady platform, or under duress. I see Darnold make a lot of plays in those situations, big, game-changing plays, whereas lesser QBs take the sack, turn the ball over, or just throw it away. When I watch Rosen make plays, it's almost always from a clean pocket with a steady platform. I don't think he's going to get a lot of that in the NFL. If he does, he'll be pretty good.
RE: RE: They all have flaws and they all have risks  
Bill L : 2/15/2018 12:54 pm : link
In comment 13833075 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13833028 Bill L said:


Quote:


which is why I have a tough time believing that these are Andrew Luck guys as opposed to forcing a pick of best QB of a lot because, hey, it's a QB. That's not what I want as compensation for having an awful team.



No professional analyst has tried to say they're andrew luck type prospects. That doesn't mean they're not very legitimate QB prospects though. Andrew Luck was considered to be a generational QB prospect.
That's actually my rationale for choosing Barkley. He *is* one. As opposed to JAQB
I'm sure if Barkley is as good as his hype we'll all be happy.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/15/2018 12:58 pm : link
I have no conditions for what the #2 pick should be other than it should be the most talented player. I'll root for whomever.

But quarterbacks are more important than runningbacks, and the only way the Giants are in position to get one in the future is to have another season like 2017.

It's a Catch-22  
Bill L : 2/15/2018 1:01 pm : link
because if they commit to the QB position, instead of talent, then they actually will be back in that position.
RE: From NFLDraftScout.com (Rob Rang)  
Stan in LA : 2/15/2018 1:02 pm : link
In comment 13832955 Milton said:
Quote:


Quote:


COMPARES TO:Hall of Fame's Dan Marino, Dolphins - Comparing anyone to arguably the greatest passer in NFL history is obviously lofty praise but Rosen's quick release, velocity and ball placement on http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.phppasses to all areas of the field is exceedingly rare.



^^^^^^^^^^
This.
RE: It's a Catch-22  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/15/2018 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13833481 Bill L said:
Quote:
because if they commit to the QB position, instead of talent, then they actually will be back in that position.


I don't think that's an accurate look at the top of the QB class this year.
I think that we're seeing or reading different things  
Bill L : 2/15/2018 1:09 pm : link
but I am biased in favor of the game-breaker, even if he's not a QB
I don't mean to imply that you are not  
Bill L : 2/15/2018 1:11 pm : link
I mean that if you do add premium points to the qb position, then the margin of difference can't be extreme. Based on the current info, and that's speaking more about Barkley than the QB's, I think that is a tough sell.
RE: LOL..  
Stan in LA : 2/15/2018 7:57 pm : link
In comment 13833016 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
what the hell does this mean??



Quote:


The QB reports I am making for BBI
Sy'56 : 7:46 am : link : reply
Rosen and Eli are woefully similar



Unless Rosen is a statue like Eli but then can't throw the ball or make plays, I'm not sure why it would be phrased negatively.

You make it sound like eli is a bad comparison for any QB coming out. We aren't talking about a QB who is "woefully" deficient in skills other than his scrambling.


If that means he's similar to a Hall of Fame QB with 2 Super Bowl MVP's, sign me up!
RE: I'm sure if Barkley is as good as his hype we'll all be happy.  
santacruzom : 2/16/2018 6:47 pm : link
In comment 13833477 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:

But quarterbacks are more important than runningbacks, and the only way the Giants are in position to get one in the future is to have another season like 2017.


I'm not so sure about that. There are quite a few teams who have very good quarterbacks and didn't have to languish in the bottom 5 repeatedly to get them.
Alternatively, we could end up being the Browns  
Bill L : 2/16/2018 7:04 pm : link
.
RE: RE: I'm sure if Barkley is as good as his hype we'll all be happy.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/16/2018 7:14 pm : link
In comment 13834907 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 13833477 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:



But quarterbacks are more important than runningbacks, and the only way the Giants are in position to get one in the future is to have another season like 2017.




I'm not so sure about that. There are quite a few teams who have very good quarterbacks and didn't have to languish in the bottom 5 repeatedly to get them.


There are exceptions to every rule, of course. I don't think you can bank on something like a great QB prospect being mis-evaluated by the whole league such as what happened with Russell and Rodgers.

To the guy asking about INTs  
Big Rick in FL : 2/16/2018 8:42 pm : link
The reason why people don't question Rosen's INTs like they do Darnold's is because it's stuff Rosen had to do to win, because him team sucked. He had to force throws when his team was down. He had to make plays because his WRs/TEs didn't help him out. Nor did his defense. They are mistakes he doesn't really make in a game that UCLA was winning.


Darnold has some horrible INTs/Fumbles lost no matter the score of the game. His INTs are a lot of the time down to bad mechanics as opposed to forcing INTs. Darnold's supporting cast & defense was much better yet he still turned the ball over a ton.
RE: To the guy asking about INTs  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/16/2018 9:08 pm : link
In comment 13834944 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
The reason why people don't question Rosen's INTs like they do Darnold's is because it's stuff Rosen had to do to win, because him team sucked. He had to force throws when his team was down. He had to make plays because his WRs/TEs didn't help him out. Nor did his defense. They are mistakes he doesn't really make in a game that UCLA was winning.


Darnold has some horrible INTs/Fumbles lost no matter the score of the game. His INTs are a lot of the time down to bad mechanics as opposed to forcing INTs. Darnold's supporting cast & defense was much better yet he still turned the ball over a ton.


To further this point
Quote:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/josh-rosen?id=2560059
Completed 63 percent of his passes when blitzed in 2017. Accuracy totals negatively impacted by 31 receiver drops this year.
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