Lots of talk good & bad about OBJ and his coming big pay day. For me it's easy to see his worst game as the week after the boat trip and the debacle in Green Bay.
Trying to nail down Beckham's best game that represents his will to win is a little tougher choice for me. Oct. 16th 2016 Baltimore Ravens at New York Giants.
Giants ball, 4th quarter, 3rd down with 4 to go at the NYG 31. 1:43 left on the game clock. Eli finds Donnell in great position to get that first down and Eli hits him with a well thrown pass. Donnell with his large size is certain to get that 1st down. Except it doesn't happen. With a defender closing in on him, Donnell runs out of bounds a yard short of the sticks!!!
At this point, fans want Donnell's head on a stick. Now it's 4th and 1 with 1:43 to go. What happens?
| (No Huddle, Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short middle to 13-O.Beckham for 66 yards, TOUCHDOWN. |
That play, OBJ's 2nd TD that day showed me what he is willing to do for his team to win. Giants win 27-23.
Anyone have a better game in mind that may be a better defining game?
Unfortunately, Beckham's stigma right now is he is an outstanding talent with a diva attitude who doesn't seem to make much of an impact on the team's W-L record.
That game, the Green Bay game and the dog piss game are certainly ones to show why he should be traded. I just tried to cite a game that showed he is worth a re-sign and shows just how much skill he has.
+1...my favorite Beckham game thus far.
Good post and I agree. Was one of the craziest games I've ever seen.
But, what is his defining moment? Imo, that is easy. It was the game against Dallas where he caught the ball behind his head with 3 fingers while having enough body control to stay in bounds and fight off the DB who interfered him. That was his defining moment/game.
Unfortunately, Beckham's stigma right now is he is an outstanding talent with a diva attitude who doesn't seem to make much of an impact on the team's W-L record.
I know this isn't necessarily your opinion - I just hate the argument re: W/L's
Outside of the QB position, how many guys in this league can leverage wins and losses on their own as single entities?
Football is so much about being the sum of parts. I can go down the list of some of the best players in the league who aren't QB's and probably say the same about them.
If we decide that Beckham doesn't have enough impact on wins and losses, can't we do the same for anyone else? Eventually, there's no one left.
Lastly, I think the idea that Beckham doesn't have a positive impact on the record is very much false.
He was pretty much the largest reason why we won several games last year... BAL, DAL, CLE, DET, etc. He made game-changing plays in all of those games.
The offense has been absolutely horrendous without him on the field.
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probably the best one to pick.
Unfortunately, Beckham's stigma right now is he is an outstanding talent with a diva attitude who doesn't seem to make much of an impact on the team's W-L record.
I know this isn't necessarily your opinion - I just hate the argument re: W/L's
Outside of the QB position, how many guys in this league can leverage wins and losses on their own as single entities?
Football is so much about being the sum of parts. I can go down the list of some of the best players in the league who aren't QB's and probably say the same about them.
If we decide that Beckham doesn't have enough impact on wins and losses, can't we do the same for anyone else? Eventually, there's no one left.
Lastly, I think the idea that Beckham doesn't have a positive impact on the record is very much false.
He was pretty much the largest reason why we won several games last year... BAL, DAL, CLE, DET, etc. He made game-changing plays in all of those games.
The offense has been absolutely horrendous without him on the field.
Couldn't agree more, and why I hate the "big time WR's don't win Super Bowls" argument.
Sure maybe they haven't that often, but why? What else was that team missing? Is it Calvin Johnson's fault Detroit couldn't put together a winner around him? Julio's fault the coaching staff and defense pissed away a 25 point lead? Randy Moss' fault the defense gave up a TD after he scored the game winning one.
Football isn't tennis or even basketball. Way too much goes into it.
Agree to disagree. He is not a luxury, he is a phenom, one of the best players in the entire NFL. I have posted it enough, look at Eli's career numbers when targeting Beckham vs. targeting anyone else in his career. It is a 30 point difference in passer rating.
He is a completely game changing talent. Who in the NFL is trading away superstar WRs in their prime? AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, Dez, Antonio Brown, etc. all got monster deals to stay with the teams that drafted them. You can argue all you want that none of them have ever won a Superbowl, it was not their fault.
Please enlighten me to what "back to being the Giants" means.
The ones that signed Josh Brown? The ones that gave Tito Wooten a contract extension after multiple domestic abuse arrests?
People need to stop letting their view of Odell Beckham Jr. the person cloud their view of Odell Beckham Jr. the player.
The person is, by all accounts, a pretty darn good guy anyway - beloved by his teammates, has friends all over the league, a family man, no legal issues, etc.
But I get it - some of the "optics" rub some of the old school guys the wrong way. He's a little immature.
But this stuff has very little bearing on the impact the player has on the field.
If Beckham had the personality of Eli Manning - how many of you "signing him would be a huge mistake" people would still be saying that? My guess is.... none.
If you don't like the guy as a person, that's your right (though I find it a bit petty, personally) - but once you start factoring that into how you view the player, it's hard to take seriously.
There has never been a stronger endorsement for the Giants signing OBJ to a long-term deal than PaulN suggesting that they shouldn't.
This is truly spectacular. You've outdone yourself, which is no easy feat.
And to an extent, you can't really separate Beckham the player from Beckham the "person", since his immaturity routinely costs them 15 yards. Granted from most accounts his on-field immaturity doesn't transfer over to off-field immaturity as he is well respected as a teammate, works his a$$ off, stays out of legal trouble, and has helped raise money for good causes.
Insightful.
Aren't they like a sub .200 team without him over his career?
Family man?
Best player on the field in every game he's played in?
I swear some of you guys would line up to wipe his ass.
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Aren’t the NYG a sub .500 team when Beckham is on the field over the course of his career?
Aren't they like a sub .200 team without him over his career?
21-26 (.45) with Beckham
5-12 (.29) without Beckham
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Aren’t the NYG a sub .500 team when Beckham is on the field over the course of his career?
Insightful.
Truth hurts? Beckham is an incredible talent who, let’s be real, has shined in a (mostly) losing culture since the day he stepped onto the field as a professional. You know what a real “defining game” is? LT in New Orleans playing with one arm.
And Landon Collins too. In fact, Eli is only eight games above .500 for his career - not even one game per season! Get rid of all of them. Brilliant thought.
Here's the reality: with OBJ in the lineup over the past four years, the Giants have a .404 winning percentage; when he's out, they have a .294 winning percentage.
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Aren’t the NYG a sub .500 team when Beckham is on the field over the course of his career?
And Landon Collins too. In fact, Eli is only eight games above .500 for his career - not even one game per season! Get rid of all of them. Brilliant thought.
Here's the reality: with OBJ in the lineup over the past four years, the Giants have a .404 winning percentage; when he's out, they have a .294 winning percentage.
Can you look at my post again and let me know where I said to get rid of any player. I’ll wait....
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Aren’t the NYG a sub .500 team when Beckham is on the field over the course of his career?
And Landon Collins too. In fact, Eli is only eight games above .500 for his career - not even one game per season! Get rid of all of them. Brilliant thought.
Here's the reality: with OBJ in the lineup over the past four years, the Giants have a .404 winning percentage; when he's out, they have a .294 winning percentage.
giants#1's numbers earlier in the thread are correct. I counted the 9 losses they had without him this past season in the "with" total (instead of the 4 losses they actually had).
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In comment 13833833 The_Boss said:
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Aren’t the NYG a sub .500 team when Beckham is on the field over the course of his career?
And Landon Collins too. In fact, Eli is only eight games above .500 for his career - not even one game per season! Get rid of all of them. Brilliant thought.
Here's the reality: with OBJ in the lineup over the past four years, the Giants have a .404 winning percentage; when he's out, they have a .294 winning percentage.
Can you look at my post again and let me know where I said to get rid of any player. I’ll wait....
So your post was just pointless then?
vs. CAR 16
vs. WASH 16
vs. DAL 17
vs. BAL 17
Doubling down does you no favors.
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In comment 13833854 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13833833 The_Boss said:
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Aren’t the NYG a sub .500 team when Beckham is on the field over the course of his career?
And Landon Collins too. In fact, Eli is only eight games above .500 for his career - not even one game per season! Get rid of all of them. Brilliant thought.
Here's the reality: with OBJ in the lineup over the past four years, the Giants have a .404 winning percentage; when he's out, they have a .294 winning percentage.
Can you look at my post again and let me know where I said to get rid of any player. I’ll wait....
So your post was just pointless then?
No. It was based on FACT, just like 99.9999% of what I post on this site.
Family man?
Best player on the field in every game he's played in?
I swear some of you guys would line up to wipe his ass.
Eli's first playoff game was terrible. Guess we should have never signed him then.
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In comment 13833858 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13833854 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13833833 The_Boss said:
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Aren’t the NYG a sub .500 team when Beckham is on the field over the course of his career?
And Landon Collins too. In fact, Eli is only eight games above .500 for his career - not even one game per season! Get rid of all of them. Brilliant thought.
Here's the reality: with OBJ in the lineup over the past four years, the Giants have a .404 winning percentage; when he's out, they have a .294 winning percentage.
Can you look at my post again and let me know where I said to get rid of any player. I’ll wait....
So your post was just pointless then?
No. It was based on FACT, just like 99.9999% of what I post on this site.
A random fact presented without directional conclusion is pointless. And I think it was pretty obvious what you were implying, but are now walking it back because you didn't expect that their record was so much worse without OBJ than it is with him.
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In comment 13833861 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13833858 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13833854 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13833833 The_Boss said:
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Aren’t the NYG a sub .500 team when Beckham is on the field over the course of his career?
And Landon Collins too. In fact, Eli is only eight games above .500 for his career - not even one game per season! Get rid of all of them. Brilliant thought.
Here's the reality: with OBJ in the lineup over the past four years, the Giants have a .404 winning percentage; when he's out, they have a .294 winning percentage.
Can you look at my post again and let me know where I said to get rid of any player. I’ll wait....
So your post was just pointless then?
No. It was based on FACT, just like 99.9999% of what I post on this site.
A random fact presented without directional conclusion is pointless. And I think it was pretty obvious what you were implying, but are now walking it back because you didn't expect that their record was so much worse without OBJ than it is with him.
The hell are you talking about? I’m not walking anything back. Nor am
I implying anything. I didn’t expect them to be so much worse without him?? You’re joking right? I’ve said since the Minnesota game in that outdoor stadium when they got beaten pretty soundly without Beckham that they’re essentially unwatchable when he’s out. They’re bad without him. They’re god awful without him. Either way, he’s been part of a losing culture.
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In comment 13833868 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13833861 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13833858 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13833854 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13833833 The_Boss said:
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Aren’t the NYG a sub .500 team when Beckham is on the field over the course of his career?
And Landon Collins too. In fact, Eli is only eight games above .500 for his career - not even one game per season! Get rid of all of them. Brilliant thought.
Here's the reality: with OBJ in the lineup over the past four years, the Giants have a .404 winning percentage; when he's out, they have a .294 winning percentage.
Can you look at my post again and let me know where I said to get rid of any player. I’ll wait....
So your post was just pointless then?
No. It was based on FACT, just like 99.9999% of what I post on this site.
A random fact presented without directional conclusion is pointless. And I think it was pretty obvious what you were implying, but are now walking it back because you didn't expect that their record was so much worse without OBJ than it is with him.
The hell are you talking about? I’m not walking anything back. Nor am
I implying anything. I didn’t expect them to be so much worse without him?? You’re joking right? I’ve said since the Minnesota game in that outdoor stadium when they got beaten pretty soundly without Beckham that they’re essentially unwatchable when he’s out. They’re bad without him. They’re god awful without him. Either way, he’s been part of a losing culture.
** they’re bad with him. God awful without **
2015 - 32nd
2016 - 10th
2017 - 31st
Is Beckham "part of the losing culture" or is it damn near impossible to win football games with a horrendous defense?
2015 - 32nd
2016 - 10th
2017 - 31st
Is Beckham "part of the losing culture" or is it damn near impossible to win football games with a horrendous defense?
Yeah he is. So is Eli. So is Collins. So is Pugh. So has everyone really, since mid season of 2012. That includes the ownership and front office. Yeah they had a fluke season in 2016, but the trend has been quite the opposite.
If the Giants would have pulled off that game I think the narrative surrounding Odell Beckham changes completely. He was the single biggest reason for the Giants comeback - the Josh Norman stuff would have either been a complete after thought or seen as an example of his competitive drive.
Let’s see what happens with that foot injury.
The guy is great as is no reason to exaggerate. Was he the best player on the field in the playoff game? How about that Vikings game where he might as well not have played? Dude's great but let's not pretend he's elite every game. No one is.
Unfortunately, Beckham's stigma right now is he is an outstanding talent with a diva attitude who doesn't seem to make much of an impact on the team's W-L record.
I don't know, Eric, he certainly made a W-L impact in 2016.
Let’s see what happens with that foot injury.
Who is offering this?
I love when fans just make up trade offers that don't exist.
People need to stop letting their view of Odell Beckham Jr. the person cloud their view of Odell Beckham Jr. the player.
The person is, by all accounts, a pretty darn good guy anyway - beloved by his teammates, has friends all over the league, a family man, no legal issues, etc.
But I get it - some of the "optics" rub some of the old school guys the wrong way. He's a little immature.
But this stuff has very little bearing on the impact the player has on the field.
If Beckham had the personality of Eli Manning - how many of you "signing him would be a huge mistake" people would still be saying that? My guess is.... none.
If you don't like the guy as a person, that's your right (though I find it a bit petty, personally) - but once you start factoring that into how you view the player, it's hard to take seriously.
Agree wholeheartedly. He's a good kid (emphasis on the kid) and a phenomenal talent. He should be a Giant for life.
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The pile of turd he dropped on Lambeau Field.
Family man?
Best player on the field in every game he's played in?
I swear some of you guys would line up to wipe his ass.
Eli's first playoff game was terrible. Guess we should have never signed him then.
Not to mention completely underwhelming first playoff performances by guys like Jerry Rice or Antonio Brown.
Marvin Harrison, anyone? 3 catches on 10 targets in his first playoff game back in 1996.
Terrell Owens? 1 catch, 7 yards.
There is a massive sample size of Beckham being an elite player - better than the vast majority of guys who play his position.
But it makes the guys who hate him feel better to harp on one of the rare games he played in and had little impact and act like it's some indication that he can't show up in a big spot.
Anybody remember Eli Manning's first playoff against Carolina??
Who cares...a lot of players have played poorly in their first playoff game. Eli was awful against Carolina in 2005, yet has two historically great playoff runs..
I am going to leave this here...courtesy of Gatorade Dunk for doing his homework on the comparison between Eli and OBJ vs Matt Ryan and Julio Jones...
Eli Manning career stats as of week 2 2017:
Targeting Beckham: 63%, 35-7 TD-INT, 111.4 passer rating
Targeting anyone else: 59.5%, 285-209 TD/INT, 79.9 passer rating
I took a look at Matt Ryan & Julio Jones to give us a point of reference:
Non-Julio: 67.4%; 125-57 TD-INT; 94.42 rating; 7.02 Y/A; 10.42 Y/C
Tgt-Julio: 63.2%; 43-18 TD-INT; 102.96 rating; 9.79 Y/A; 15.48 Y/C
So the variance for Ryan between when he throws to Jones vs. other receivers isn't nearly as significant as it is for Manning w/ Beckham (8 pts vs. 30).
You cannot just dismiss this. Odell has proven that he is so great that he himself can elevate the QB and offense. Trading him makes no sense. You will never get value in return for a player of his caliber.
Here's to hoping we go 14-2 every year from here on out and there is never a reason for all the bullshit. But you BETTER believe when things go south, so will his attitude and performance. It is sad, but the reality of the situation. Just like LeBron, his individual accolades trump the thoughts of a team achievement, and that is all that is important to these guys. Unfortunately in the NFL it is a lot easier to shut down superstars with a team effort than it is in the NBA. I really don't want to trade him because thats when he will get it and light the NFL on fire, but jesus I don't like prima donnas, and he is FOR SURE the biggest one in the NFL, not sure it is even up for debate.
Also before we get the whole "old man yelling at the clouds" comments, I'm 30. I love Beckham, if he was in Pittsburgh or really anywhere else the last two years, he probably would have caught 120 balls each year. But he is bad for the locker room, I don't give A FUCK if his teammates love him.