with ample quote from Harvey, Callaway and Eiland. Basically that Callaway and Eiland convinced Sandy not to trade Harvey because they thought they could work with him. They watched his tape last year and liked how the ball was coming out late in the season.
Harvey also said last year his right shoulder was weaker than his left, and that now it is much stronger. Its not uncommon to read this stuff in ST, and I seriously doubt we will see the Harvey of old, but if they can get something from him, it could be an interesting year. Matt Harvey A Lot Left in the Tank - ( New Window )
Of fWAR from 4 vets this offseason (2017). Thats before you even get into the returns of Thor, Familia, ect. I have a hard time envisioning this team being less than a 80 win team.
RE: Strength in numbers. That's a good way to play the starting pitcher
game. I'm warming up to the Vargas signing since this, as was said, is his second year after TJ.
I worry he clogs a spot and blocks a more upside play but hes been basically a league average pitcher since 2010. Likening him to Colon is fair I think. He likely does give us some innings. Its not the worst move. I was much more excited about some of other moves but its all good.
FWIW, I love Matt Harvey - I think you guys know that. I've been one of his biggest fans. So, when I mentioned him earlier, it wasn't to say I look at he and Wheeler the same way.
I personally have always felt that Harveys persona was good for the team, not bad.
But when he sucks on the mound, it's a different ballgame.
That said, I do understand why he's rubbed people the wrong way at times.
I'm rooting for him - I'd love to see him get back to the old Matt this year. It would be HUGE for us. Not counting on it, but it would make such a big difference.
I think that gets lost in the Fab 5 stuff and the unrealistic expectations some Mets fans had. If Harvey did bounce back to say... 2015 levels... The Mets would have something nobody else has and we would be a major threat in the postseason.
The 51s are likely going to have a pretty interesting pen over 2018
Tyler Bashlor, Callahan, Rhame, Drew Smith, possibly Bautista eventually. Thats some serious heat. I honestly think Sewald might have to go back to AAA. There isnt much room if some of the SP have to go there.
because it really blocks someone like wheeler/montero/matz/lugo/gsellman from flourishing. I understand preventing injury, but I agree with some of the other posters that that money could have been better served on an addison reed type, while signing someone like bartolo (or actually bartolo himself) to a minor league deal. Heck the anibal sanchez signing made more sense.
I also don't really understand the Bruce signing either
I don't like Conforto in CF, and Nimmo is the only Met I see as a breakout candidate and he's blocked now. I think we could have spent the money on bruce/vargas instead on an arietta/darvish contract and then traded harvey for another need.
I am however positive about the immense depth of this team.
I think he is such a great fit for the top of the order/leadoff hitter. If he played 2B, I'd be psyched, but he's a 4th outfielder. Heard some scouts compare him to Michael Brantley - elite plate discipline, improving power, decent outfielder. Just a good baseball player.
Mets need another lefty, especially a guy with a good curve. Advanced metrics just can't account for the positive effect a guy like Vargas can have as a change of pace on hard throwing RHP like Thor, Degrom and Harvey. This move has Omar written all over it.
I also like adding depth guys. Last season was wrecked when Thor went down and Mets were pulling guys off the street to start. Vargas is a classic quality 4/5th starter who might not shut down the opponent but keeps you in games and gives the team a chance to win.
I think he is such a great fit for the top of the order/leadoff hitter. If he played 2B, I'd be psyched, but he's a 4th outfielder. Heard some scouts compare him to Michael Brantley - elite plate discipline, improving power, decent outfielder. Just a good baseball player.
Nimmo hit .227 at Vegas last year and he is always injured.
With MDD back in the fold, Nimmo might not be on the team after Conforto comes back.
Another one Im keeping my eye on this week as a surprise. Bautista, the kid we got for Reed. Dont know if he can pitch. Havent even seen him throw a BP. But walking by early AM warmups. Literally just lined up having a catch to loosen up. His whip, WOW, it jumped. Just a warmup, didnt recognize him (wearing warmup shirt, so no name or number) but I had to stop to watch for a minute. Hes unique looking so figured out it was him. But I will certainly be going out of my way to see him throw the next few weeks. Huge grain of salt though.
what happens with Nimmo when conforto comes back. Not even just this year, but the next 2-3 years given the commitment we have to the big three (bruce, conforto, cespedes?) not to mention lagares
some fluff but a lot of really good stats on his changeup and his pitching style, but a couple particular quotes bolded below part caught my eye. I really like that this offseason they added players known for being tough competitors.
Quote:
Armed with a lower release point, the gift of health and an unyielding intensity, a trait hardened over a decade in the majors, Vargas has wreaked havoc on opposing hitters, recording a 12-3 record and a league-leading 2.62 ERA in the first half.
Quote:
The first full season coming off of Tommy John, I felt like a baby deer trying to walk, Duffy says. Vargy woke up out of bed and hes an All-Star.
In a room of veterans, they talk about Vargas supreme confidence and methodical approach. They call him The Doctor, a nod to his clinical nature. Yet the conversation often turns to his most potent weapon: the change-up.
Its one of, if not, the best change-up in the game, Royals starter Jason Hammel says.
Vargas pitched about 25 starts to a 2.5 ERA last year. He was very good and kept his team in almost every one of those games. Just like Colon, when his stuff is off he gets crushed. He had 6 games where teams just lit him up. He doesnt throw hard so this makes sense to me. I feel like we are just going to have to accept those games where he doesnt have it and embrace the greater whole.
Vargas pitched about 25 starts to a 2.5 ERA last year. He was very good and kept his team in almost every one of those games. Just like Colon, when his stuff is off he gets crushed. He had 6 games where teams just lit him up. He doesnt throw hard so this makes sense to me. I feel like we are just going to have to accept those games where he doesnt have it and embrace the greater whole.
Except Colon signed a minor league deal with Texas and gets $1.75M if he makes the major league roster.
Vargas gets $8M per each of the next two seasons no matter what. Plus possibly more with incentives.
So if they're the same guy, someone should have just signed Colon.
Sometimes people say money is irrelevant, but if you read a lot of tweets from beat writers or even some of DMM's posts he says Mets were interested in player x but declined or couldn't agree to a trade or contract because of $$$. So it may matter more than some of us know.
And I'm not saying I'm opposed to the Vargas signing, but saying he's Colon doesn't make the deal look better.
Vargas pitched about 25 starts to a 2.5 ERA last year. He was very good and kept his team in almost every one of those games. Just like Colon, when his stuff is off he gets crushed. He had 6 games where teams just lit him up. He doesnt throw hard so this makes sense to me. I feel like we are just going to have to accept those games where he doesnt have it and embrace the greater whole.
Except Colon signed a minor league deal with Texas and gets $1.75M if he makes the major league roster.
Vargas gets $8M per each of the next two seasons no matter what. Plus possibly more with incentives.
So if they're the same guy, someone should have just signed Colon.
Sometimes people say money is irrelevant, but if you read a lot of tweets from beat writers or even some of DMM's posts he says Mets were interested in player x but declined or couldn't agree to a trade or contract because of $$$. So it may matter more than some of us know.
And I'm not saying I'm opposed to the Vargas signing, but saying he's Colon doesn't make the deal look better.
I think Z meant that Vargas is Colon when he originally signed with the Mets.
and if that's the case I agree with you as I said since Colon signed for a fraction of what Vargas did.
Though Atlanta paid Colon 12.5M for 2017 just a year ago, so not sure how you can say the Mets signing Vargas to an 8M deal is horrific unless you think the Braves signing Colon last year was worse than horrific. And Vargas is 10 years younger than Colon.
I am clearly saying the Vargas signing mirrors the Colon signing from a few years ago. Colon is currently finished. Im not likening Vargas to a dead guy. lol.
Though Atlanta paid Colon 12.5M for 2017 just a year ago, so not sure how you can say the Mets signing Vargas to an 8M deal is horrific unless you think the Braves signing Colon last year was worse than horrific. And Vargas is 10 years younger than Colon.
I thought it was an okay move at the time as Colon was coming off a solid season. It turned out to be arguably the worst FA signing of last year as Colon was clearly finished and he obviously wasn't the innings eater/mentor that he was expected to be. Colon was coming off a season with 191 IP and a 3.43 ERA.
I think he is such a great fit for the top of the order/leadoff hitter. If he played 2B, I'd be psyched, but he's a 4th outfielder. Heard some scouts compare him to Michael Brantley - elite plate discipline, improving power, decent outfielder. Just a good baseball player.
Nimmo is t being blocked. Hes like to be your opening day CF and leading off
Vargas is more insurance for Matz than anyone else.
Have you seen Vargas' splits vs lefties, not sure why Vargas would be insurance for Matz, he (Vargas) likely knocked Wheeler to the pen once the rotation settles in to 5-men (assuming health).
Vargas is more insurance for Matz than anyone else.
Have you seen Vargas' splits vs lefties, not sure why Vargas would be insurance for Matz, he (Vargas) likely knocked Wheeler to the pen once the rotation settles in to 5-men (assuming health).
Not because hes a lefty. Its because hes the least likely of these guys to stay healthy
not just bc he was a pirate with a lot of innings on his arm, but also bc his performance the last 2 years has gone backwards even though his numbers are still decent. His HR rate each of the last 2 years jumped up around 15% when his career average was previously below 9%. When he pitched in the 8th or 9th inning last year (35 innings) he allowed 18 earned runs (including 7 homers in the 9th inning). At the price he signed for it's a good gamble, and not to sound like a broken record but i'd have much preferred Reed.
not just bc he was a pirate with a lot of innings on his arm, but also bc his performance the last 2 years has gone backwards even though his numbers are still decent. His HR rate each of the last 2 years jumped up around 15% when his career average was previously below 9%. When he pitched in the 8th or 9th inning last year (35 innings) he allowed 18 earned runs (including 7 homers in the 9th inning). At the price he signed for it's a good gamble, and not to sound like a broken record but i'd have much preferred Reed.
I think it was really 9th innings where he struggled - I don't think we ever would have had him pitching there.
He had a 1.35 ERA in the 8th inning this past season (albeit, smallish sample of just over 13 IP)
He pitched quite well for LA. Again, only 20 total innings - but his numbers were much better there than in PIT before being dealt.
not just bc he was a pirate with a lot of innings on his arm, but also bc his performance the last 2 years has gone backwards even though his numbers are still decent. His HR rate each of the last 2 years jumped up around 15% when his career average was previously below 9%. When he pitched in the 8th or 9th inning last year (35 innings) he allowed 18 earned runs (including 7 homers in the 9th inning). At the price he signed for it's a good gamble, and not to sound like a broken record but i'd have much preferred Reed.
I think it was really 9th innings where he struggled - I don't think we ever would have had him pitching there.
He had a 1.35 ERA in the 8th inning this past season (albeit, smallish sample of just over 13 IP)
He pitched quite well for LA. Again, only 20 total innings - but his numbers were much better there than in PIT before being dealt.
Yeah I wouldn't have hated the signing because you're right, he rarely would have been in at the end of the game and he probably would have been a solid 7th inning option - I'd just prefer more upside if they're going to spend on a veteran reliever at this point.
Vargas is more insurance for Matz than anyone else.
Have you seen Vargas' splits vs lefties, not sure why Vargas would be insurance for Matz, he (Vargas) likely knocked Wheeler to the pen once the rotation settles in to 5-men (assuming health).
Not because hes a lefty. Its because hes the least likely of these guys to stay healthy
Maybe, not sure about that though, the competition for least healthy Mets starting pitcher is fierce.
As a depth guy he's fine. He's a good option to pinch hit and pinch run at the end of the game, he can play multiple positions and he supposedly has a good relationship with Rosario. It's not completely inconceivable that he'd be a better option at 2nd than Cabrera now since he might be the best leadoff guy on the team.
The Giants have signed P Tony Watson to a 2 year $7 million deal.
The Twins have signed P Anibal Sanchez to a 1 year $2.5 million deal.
OF Rajai Davis signed a minor league deal with Cleveland.
Cards sign RP Jason Motte to a minor league deal.
I believe MLB is going to take a look at that Watson contract, beat writers/national baseball reporters saying it's structured this way to avoid luxury tax (kind of like the NFL likely to be earned incentives IMO that teams used to add to avoid/adjust the timing of some cap hits)
So it sounds more like a 2 year $14M contract insured against injury I guess or a 3 year $21M deal.
Quote:
Jon HeymanVerified account @JonHeyman
watson gets 9M guarantee that could become 21M with escalators, as @jcrasnick said. some envisioned higher guarantee but with 55 games each year the escalators max out, and the durable watson has 67-plus games last 6 years. so good chance for 21M. #SFGiants
Anyone with a brain would take a 4.23 FIP Harvey this year. I mean he was in the mix for worst SP in baseball last season.
Harvey also said last year his right shoulder was weaker than his left, and that now it is much stronger. Its not uncommon to read this stuff in ST, and I seriously doubt we will see the Harvey of old, but if they can get something from him, it could be an interesting year.
Matt Harvey A Lot Left in the Tank - ( New Window )
I worry he clogs a spot and blocks a more upside play but hes been basically a league average pitcher since 2010. Likening him to Colon is fair I think. He likely does give us some innings. Its not the worst move. I was much more excited about some of other moves but its all good.
Season will still come down to key pieces like Thor returning to health and the maturation of guys like Rosario IMO.
I personally have always felt that Harveys persona was good for the team, not bad.
But when he sucks on the mound, it's a different ballgame.
That said, I do understand why he's rubbed people the wrong way at times.
I'm rooting for him - I'd love to see him get back to the old Matt this year. It would be HUGE for us. Not counting on it, but it would make such a big difference.
2.) deGrom
3.) Harvey
4.) Matz
5.) Vargas
Familia
Swarzak
Ramos
Blevins
2nd LOOGY not yet here
Wheeler
Montero
AAA rotation
Gsellman
Lugo
Flexen
Oswalt
Molina/Knapp
Suddenly the AAA team doesnt look too bad. No Wilks, Pills, or Millones this year.
I am however positive about the immense depth of this team.
Mets need another lefty, especially a guy with a good curve. Advanced metrics just can't account for the positive effect a guy like Vargas can have as a change of pace on hard throwing RHP like Thor, Degrom and Harvey. This move has Omar written all over it.
I also like adding depth guys. Last season was wrecked when Thor went down and Mets were pulling guys off the street to start. Vargas is a classic quality 4/5th starter who might not shut down the opponent but keeps you in games and gives the team a chance to win.
Not saying it clicked, but I would not be surprised to see him break out this year.
Nimmo hit .227 at Vegas last year and he is always injured.
With MDD back in the fold, Nimmo might not be on the team after Conforto comes back.
(Lol, autocorrect above)
You mean without Conforto, right?
So:
Ces
Lagares
Bruce
Nimmo?
FLores, Cespedes, Bruce can all be DHs at times
In a room of veterans, they talk about Vargas supreme confidence and methodical approach. They call him The Doctor, a nod to his clinical nature. Yet the conversation often turns to his most potent weapon: the change-up.
Its one of, if not, the best change-up in the game, Royals starter Jason Hammel says.
Small changes turned Jason Vargas, a Tommy John survivor, into a frontline starter - ( New Window )
FLores, Cespedes, Bruce can all be DHs at times
True but that goes with most teams in the NL.
Except Colon signed a minor league deal with Texas and gets $1.75M if he makes the major league roster.
Vargas gets $8M per each of the next two seasons no matter what. Plus possibly more with incentives.
So if they're the same guy, someone should have just signed Colon.
Sometimes people say money is irrelevant, but if you read a lot of tweets from beat writers or even some of DMM's posts he says Mets were interested in player x but declined or couldn't agree to a trade or contract because of $$$. So it may matter more than some of us know.
And I'm not saying I'm opposed to the Vargas signing, but saying he's Colon doesn't make the deal look better.
Quote:
Vargas pitched about 25 starts to a 2.5 ERA last year. He was very good and kept his team in almost every one of those games. Just like Colon, when his stuff is off he gets crushed. He had 6 games where teams just lit him up. He doesnt throw hard so this makes sense to me. I feel like we are just going to have to accept those games where he doesnt have it and embrace the greater whole.
Except Colon signed a minor league deal with Texas and gets $1.75M if he makes the major league roster.
Vargas gets $8M per each of the next two seasons no matter what. Plus possibly more with incentives.
So if they're the same guy, someone should have just signed Colon.
Sometimes people say money is irrelevant, but if you read a lot of tweets from beat writers or even some of DMM's posts he says Mets were interested in player x but declined or couldn't agree to a trade or contract because of $$$. So it may matter more than some of us know.
And I'm not saying I'm opposed to the Vargas signing, but saying he's Colon doesn't make the deal look better.
I think Z meant that Vargas is Colon when he originally signed with the Mets.
and if that's the case I agree with you as I said since Colon signed for a fraction of what Vargas did.
Though Atlanta paid Colon 12.5M for 2017 just a year ago, so not sure how you can say the Mets signing Vargas to an 8M deal is horrific unless you think the Braves signing Colon last year was worse than horrific. And Vargas is 10 years younger than Colon.
Though Atlanta paid Colon 12.5M for 2017 just a year ago, so not sure how you can say the Mets signing Vargas to an 8M deal is horrific unless you think the Braves signing Colon last year was worse than horrific. And Vargas is 10 years younger than Colon.
I thought it was an okay move at the time as Colon was coming off a solid season. It turned out to be arguably the worst FA signing of last year as Colon was clearly finished and he obviously wasn't the innings eater/mentor that he was expected to be. Colon was coming off a season with 191 IP and a 3.43 ERA.
Yup. And likely the lead off hitter too
Nimmo is t being blocked. Hes like to be your opening day CF and leading off
Have you seen Vargas' splits vs lefties, not sure why Vargas would be insurance for Matz, he (Vargas) likely knocked Wheeler to the pen once the rotation settles in to 5-men (assuming health).
Quote:
Vargas is more insurance for Matz than anyone else.
Have you seen Vargas' splits vs lefties, not sure why Vargas would be insurance for Matz, he (Vargas) likely knocked Wheeler to the pen once the rotation settles in to 5-men (assuming health).
Not because hes a lefty. Its because hes the least likely of these guys to stay healthy
The Twins have signed P Anibal Sanchez to a 1 year $2.5 million deal.
OF Rajai Davis signed a minor league deal with Cleveland.
Cards sign RP Jason Motte to a minor league deal.
Agreed, I expected him to get double that.
I think it was really 9th innings where he struggled - I don't think we ever would have had him pitching there.
He had a 1.35 ERA in the 8th inning this past season (albeit, smallish sample of just over 13 IP)
He pitched quite well for LA. Again, only 20 total innings - but his numbers were much better there than in PIT before being dealt.
Quote:
not just bc he was a pirate with a lot of innings on his arm, but also bc his performance the last 2 years has gone backwards even though his numbers are still decent. His HR rate each of the last 2 years jumped up around 15% when his career average was previously below 9%. When he pitched in the 8th or 9th inning last year (35 innings) he allowed 18 earned runs (including 7 homers in the 9th inning). At the price he signed for it's a good gamble, and not to sound like a broken record but i'd have much preferred Reed.
I think it was really 9th innings where he struggled - I don't think we ever would have had him pitching there.
He had a 1.35 ERA in the 8th inning this past season (albeit, smallish sample of just over 13 IP)
He pitched quite well for LA. Again, only 20 total innings - but his numbers were much better there than in PIT before being dealt.
Yeah I wouldn't have hated the signing because you're right, he rarely would have been in at the end of the game and he probably would have been a solid 7th inning option - I'd just prefer more upside if they're going to spend on a veteran reliever at this point.
Quote:
In comment 13835207 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Vargas is more insurance for Matz than anyone else.
Have you seen Vargas' splits vs lefties, not sure why Vargas would be insurance for Matz, he (Vargas) likely knocked Wheeler to the pen once the rotation settles in to 5-men (assuming health).
Not because hes a lefty. Its because hes the least likely of these guys to stay healthy
Maybe, not sure about that though, the competition for least healthy Mets starting pitcher is fierce.
As a depth guy he's fine. He's a good option to pinch hit and pinch run at the end of the game, he can play multiple positions and he supposedly has a good relationship with Rosario. It's not completely inconceivable that he'd be a better option at 2nd than Cabrera now since he might be the best leadoff guy on the team.
The Twins have signed P Anibal Sanchez to a 1 year $2.5 million deal.
OF Rajai Davis signed a minor league deal with Cleveland.
Cards sign RP Jason Motte to a minor league deal.
I believe MLB is going to take a look at that Watson contract, beat writers/national baseball reporters saying it's structured this way to avoid luxury tax (kind of like the NFL likely to be earned incentives IMO that teams used to add to avoid/adjust the timing of some cap hits)
So it sounds more like a 2 year $14M contract insured against injury I guess or a 3 year $21M deal.
watson gets 9M guarantee that could become 21M with escalators, as @jcrasnick said. some envisioned higher guarantee but with 55 games each year the escalators max out, and the durable watson has 67-plus games last 6 years. so good chance for 21M. #SFGiants