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NFT: Mets sign Jason Vargas.

ZGiants98 : 2/16/2018 10:49 am
Meh.
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Major league  
Jay on the Island : 2/16/2018 10:51 am : link
or minor league deal?
It's  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2018 10:51 am : link
fine if it's for 1 year, hopefully the AWFUL second half was fatigue.
Major league  
ZGiants98 : 2/16/2018 10:51 am : link
2 year deal.
I guess that guarantees Wheeler  
ZGiants98 : 2/16/2018 10:52 am : link
Is moving to the pen. Cant see Vargas going to the pen.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/16/2018 10:54 am : link
Eh.

He was outstanding the first three months.

Through June, he had a 2.22 ERA in just over 100 IP.

6.66 ERA from then on. Woof.
Gotta  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2018 10:54 am : link
hope Vargas is your Colon... stuff not impressive but gets the job done. Second half was beyond bad so that's a bit scary.
CU  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2018 10:56 am : link
grades as excellent, FB WELL below average. People keep citing Eiland.. but... Eiland was with him for the 6.66 second half era so kind of a dumb argument.
Positives..  
ZGiants98 : 2/16/2018 10:57 am : link
Hes worked with Eilland. He was coming off Tommy John so maybe he did tire down the stretch. I would have preferred we went with our in house options first but I guess depth and stuff...
I would have a completely different approach if I was in charge  
Chris684 : 2/16/2018 10:59 am : link
as most of us probably would. But looking at the way the Mets operate, they probably didnt have a bad offseason. A lot of this is probably due to the fact that the MLB market came to them, but regardless, they look like a team that's improved on paper.

Whether or not they can contend will depend on the health of the pitching staff and Cespedes.
He was one of the worst pitchers  
Metnut : 2/16/2018 10:59 am : link
in the league down the stretch last year. Surprised they gave up a 2 year deal.

On the bright side, he started the year lights out and his stuff was actually good, so it wasn't just good luck. Seems like a guy who might be better suited as a swing man whose work load should be kept down.
RE: Positives..  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2018 11:00 am : link
In comment 13834452 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Hes worked with Eilland. He was coming off Tommy John so maybe he did tire down the stretch. I would have preferred we went with our in house options first but I guess depth and stuff...


Again the Eiland stuff seems like a strange argument (not taking a shot at you) just.. he was AWFUL for 15 starts second half, Eiland was there. If anything the argument could be made "Eiland couldn't fix him so that's a concern". A better argument/hope would be fatigue.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/16/2018 11:00 am : link
Don't love the player - but it doesn't really bug me to give the rotation a little more insurance/depth.

Hopefully between Jake, Thor, Harvey, Matz, Wheeler, Lugo, Gsellman, and Vargas we can come up with a pretty good 5 man rotation.

A couple of those guys will get hurt. A couple will underperform. So, we'll probably need all of 'em.
Another year removed from TJS  
Chris684 : 2/16/2018 11:04 am : link
and maybe jumping from AL to NL can help as well.
2 yrs/ $16M  
Metnut : 2/16/2018 11:05 am : link
His overall ERA last year was 4.16 but his xFIP was 4.94, so maybe he did get a bit lucky. His 2017 6.71 K/9 and 2/91 BB/9 isn't really good either.
RE: Another year removed from TJS  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2018 11:06 am : link
In comment 13834464 Chris684 said:
Quote:
and maybe jumping from AL to NL can help as well.


Had TJ going on 3 years ago, I highly doubt there is any change stuff wise at 35.
Would the Mets go with a 6 man rotation to start the season?  
NYG27 : 2/16/2018 11:07 am : link
Keep the arms fresh, spread innings over 6 guys and then if/when injuries occur, think about going back to a 5 man rotation.
I would've rather used this money  
Metnut : 2/16/2018 11:08 am : link
and not made the Ramos deal (using that money too) and gone after a better reliever. We'd also have another prospect had we done that.
RE: Would the Mets go with a 6 man rotation to start the season?  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2018 11:13 am : link
In comment 13834468 NYG27 said:
Quote:
Keep the arms fresh, spread innings over 6 guys and then if/when injuries occur, think about going back to a 5 man rotation.


It should be considered but the issue is that Callaway has hinted at 8 in the pen. 14 pitchers = no way.
Right approach  
Shecky : 2/16/2018 11:15 am : link
I get it, but still against this move. Prefer several scrap headers. But heres the lefty rotation and bullpen insurance. Price is certainly right.

Now waiting for someone to bitch about the Mets bringing back another former Met lol
Looking at his game logs in 2017  
NYG27 : 2/16/2018 11:17 am : link
He hit a rough patch from July 5th to Sept 5th, where he had a 8+ ERA over those two months.

Although he was able to bounce back from that and won 4 straight games in Sept where he pitched 22.1 innings, gave up only 16 hits and only allowed 5 ERs.

So he did have a mini self correction from an awful second half to close out the year.
14 pitchers can't be done.  
Metnut : 2/16/2018 11:18 am : link
13 is stretching it bigtime and also unlikely. That being said, the Mets need to keep the innings down on these arms and the trend in modern baseball and the math says to use the pen earlier and earlier.

If you think that the starters are Lagares, Cespedes, Bruce, AGonz, Cabrera, Rosario, Frazier, TDA. Then your bench is Nimmo, Reyes, Plawecki, Flores, Smith. That's 13 guys right there and you can only have 12 pitchers then. Flores would have to look like a real OF this spring to even consider something like that.
Shecky  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2018 11:24 am : link
would know more than me but someone indicated to me the Mets actually prefered Nunez to Frazier but Nunez had some health red flags and the Mets weren't going there again.
Vargas splits vs lefties  
Metnut : 2/16/2018 11:26 am : link
are pretty bad, so don't expect him to be helpful as a lefty/lefty bullpen matchup guy. He actually did better vs righties last year.
RE: Shecky  
arcarsenal : 2/16/2018 11:28 am : link
In comment 13834486 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
would know more than me but someone indicated to me the Mets actually prefered Nunez to Frazier but Nunez had some health red flags and the Mets weren't going there again.


I like Nunez the hitter much better than Frazier - but I think it's important to bring some defense here and Frazier does that well.

Frazier is a little too far in the mold of the hitter that I wish the Mets would get away from and Nunez is the kind I wish they'd gravitate more towards - but there hasn't been enough emphasis placed on defense recently and that's important.

So, I'm okay with Frazier - especially at the price/term. Not a big commit at all and he should be a good clubhouse guy.
Hes done such a horrible job building  
Rflairr : 2/16/2018 11:28 am : link
The farm system that you have to sign someone like this.

The good thing is, the Eiland connection. So he knows whatever was going on in the second half
Another  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 11:36 am : link
ex-Met.

At least Frazier, A-Gone, and Swarzak didn't ever play for the Mets or I'd seriously think Sandy is trolling everyone.
Such a typical Mets move. Gross.  
PhiPsi125 : 2/16/2018 11:42 am : link
Overpay for an old, post-TJ, awful, ex-Met pitcher. Literally the worst out of any option. Right up Sandys alley.

80%
Dom Smith  
Csonka : 2/16/2018 11:50 am : link
Dom has to tear it up this spring to come north. I think they'll start him in AAA.

Vargas is an ok #5. We'll see who's healthy come April.
Not sure when he'll be ready  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 11:52 am : link
but this would be a move that seems more fitting of what the Mets should be doing.

2 years for Vargas? I'd rather roll the dice with Montero, Lugo, Gsellman, and Wheeler for the 5th rotation spot/long man especially with Vargas' lefty splits.

Quote:

Jeff Passan
‏Verified account @JeffPassan
17h17 hours ago

There were 17 teams at Tim Lincecums workout today, and most had him at 91-93 mph with more strikes than expected. A number of teams are hoping Lincecum is willing to consider a multi-inning or potentially late-game relief role where his fastball-changeup combination can thrive.
RE: Another  
Shecky : 2/16/2018 11:52 am : link
In comment 13834502 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
ex-Met.


Annnnndddddd
We have a winner ;)
RE: RE: Another  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 13834519 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13834502 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


ex-Met.



Annnnndddddd
We have a winner ;)


well technically I didn't bitch about it. hard not to observe it though.

I'd bitch more about Vargas being awful than being an ex-Met, though again, hard not to acknowledge the number of ex-mets signed this year is uncanny.
RE: Such a typical Mets move. Gross.  
Rflairr : 2/16/2018 11:59 am : link
In comment 13834509 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
Overpay for an old, post-TJ, awful, ex-Met pitcher. Literally the worst out of any option. Right up Sandys alley.

80%


He just proves over and over that hes a GM that has no plan.
Second half be damned.  
Beezer : 2/16/2018 12:02 pm : link
18 wins.

Who won 18 for the Mets last year?

Nothing sexy and yeah, a risk. But I'm not getting discounted tickets if the Mets were to sign him for 1 year. So ...

LET'S GO!!!

Hope springs eternal, bitches!
Sandy throwing shit on the wall again  
Canton : 2/16/2018 12:03 pm : link
hoping it sticks.
Lol PJ  
Shecky : 2/16/2018 12:03 pm : link
Just playing with you.
RE: Lol PJ  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13834532 Shecky said:
Quote:
Just playing with you.


Well knock it off. LOL.

Do you hear any Mets interest in Lincecum?

FWIW Wheeler is pissed about the Vargas signing. Maybe it motivates him to reach the potential of the top 10 prospect he was. If it does, it's worth the 8M IMO.

I dont hate this move at all  
gmen9892 : 2/16/2018 12:12 pm : link
In a perfect world, we are getting less than 25 starts out of this guy. I am not going to make too much about it. He is a vet and just another arm to slot into the 3-5 spots if he is on his game. If not, he is a backup up and a 6th starter.

Now if they can cap the offseason off with another Loogy, I think this team is ready to compete. Health is going to be the determining factor as always, but I feel as though they are equipped at most spots to handle a decent amount of injury luck.
Random thoughts  
Shecky : 2/16/2018 12:19 pm : link
VERY relaxed spring. No rushing. No hustling. Nice steady pace. Tons of breaks. A TON of teaching going on. Smaller groups roatating. Players stay together.

Thor looks completely different body wise, which we were told he would. A lot more athletic in PFPs. Matz looks fuller, more mature. Wheeler looks entitled, like he just expects to be great. When the three of them are together you can just look at Thor and know hes a beast. Matz is intense. Zack is just... different.

TDA a lot of time at 2b. Not a position change like I joked last night. Just keeping him fresh. Theme for everyone early in Camp.

Conforto doing a lot of work, looking good.
Bruce is like the proud dad leading the group. Really taking a completely different approach to his leadership role, dramatic difference.
Nimmo always looked a little intimidated. Ive always said he is too soft to be great. Too content. Now seems relaxed - expect a high floor from him at this point. Legates has looked awesome a few times in past springs, so Im hesitant to tout him.

Don smith might have secretly won a $500mm lotto jackpot this offseason. I have never seen someone smile and laugh so much during practices. Ever. And that includes Jose in his youth. Jose and Wrights smiles are more genuine, but man the kid is happy this spring.

Speaking of smiles. Man is it relaxed here. Lots of vets. Everyone going about there biz. Something to prove. Quiet confidence. Everywhere.

Plawecki - leading candidate for gold glove, silver slugger and MVP at this point. Possible Cy Young candidate too. In all seriousness, Mets felt comfy enough this offseason to never seriously consider Lucroy, an unthinkable thing any other offseason.

CEs is a beast. Slimmed down beast. And clearly prefers to be in the background - which he seems to have found a bit better this year.

Speaking of background. Look in the corner of the players lot. Who brought a little boat with them to spring training

JP still wanders around aimlessly like hes actually important. Omar keeps popping up in corners talking to people. And sandy is very clearly in charge. While Fred just sits in his golf cart with his body guard and enjoys the best time of the baseball year. Unfortunately the shithead son arrives eventually...

Not sure which lefty it was, I know Nimmo was in the group hitting with Dom. But someone was hitting absolute BOMBS to RF on the main field late in yesterdays practice.
RE: Random thoughts  
arcarsenal : 2/16/2018 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13834552 Shecky said:
Quote:
VERY relaxed spring. No rushing. No hustling. Nice steady pace. Tons of breaks. A TON of teaching going on. Smaller groups roatating. Players stay together.

Thor looks completely different body wise, which we were told he would. A lot more athletic in PFPs. Matz looks fuller, more mature. Wheeler looks entitled, like he just expects to be great. When the three of them are together you can just look at Thor and know hes a beast. Matz is intense. Zack is just... different.

TDA a lot of time at 2b. Not a position change like I joked last night. Just keeping him fresh. Theme for everyone early in Camp.

Conforto doing a lot of work, looking good.
Bruce is like the proud dad leading the group. Really taking a completely different approach to his leadership role, dramatic difference.
Nimmo always looked a little intimidated. Ive always said he is too soft to be great. Too content. Now seems relaxed - expect a high floor from him at this point. Legates has looked awesome a few times in past springs, so Im hesitant to tout him.

Don smith might have secretly won a $500mm lotto jackpot this offseason. I have never seen someone smile and laugh so much during practices. Ever. And that includes Jose in his youth. Jose and Wrights smiles are more genuine, but man the kid is happy this spring.

Speaking of smiles. Man is it relaxed here. Lots of vets. Everyone going about there biz. Something to prove. Quiet confidence. Everywhere.

Plawecki - leading candidate for gold glove, silver slugger and MVP at this point. Possible Cy Young candidate too. In all seriousness, Mets felt comfy enough this offseason to never seriously consider Lucroy, an unthinkable thing any other offseason.

CEs is a beast. Slimmed down beast. And clearly prefers to be in the background - which he seems to have found a bit better this year.

Speaking of background. Look in the corner of the players lot. Who brought a little boat with them to spring training

JP still wanders around aimlessly like hes actually important. Omar keeps popping up in corners talking to people. And sandy is very clearly in charge. While Fred just sits in his golf cart with his body guard and enjoys the best time of the baseball year. Unfortunately the shithead son arrives eventually...

Not sure which lefty it was, I know Nimmo was in the group hitting with Dom. But someone was hitting absolute BOMBS to RF on the main field late in yesterdays practice.


Thanks for these tidbits, Sheck.

Nice to get a bit of a temp check early on. Interesting stuff.
Shecky  
Metnut : 2/16/2018 12:35 pm : link
great post. Thanks so much for sharing that!

Glad to see the Conforto looks alright. Hopefully it'll go well when he starts swinging. I actually like our OF depth. Am a fan of both Lagares and Nimmo.
Thanks Shecky  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 12:37 pm : link
good stuff.
So what happens  
CMicks3110 : 2/16/2018 12:55 pm : link
to Wheeler, Lugo, Gsellman, Montero - all in the pen?
Do Lugo and Gsellman have options?  
spike : 2/16/2018 1:00 pm : link
Someone ought to be the 6-7 inning guy
the confusing thing to me about Vargas is they preferred him to Reed  
Eric on Li : 2/16/2018 1:08 pm : link
I am absolutely shocked that with the money and years equal they wouldn't have rathered bring back the guy who was one of the top setup man in baseball for them the past 2 years...

Re: Vargas, he is what is. He'll give them innings. I haven't looked at the calendar but I'm sure there will be a way to get everyone a turn in the rotation if they are pitching well enough to deserve it. I like that the pitching coach has familiarity with him. Like that he's a lefty. If he can do what Colon did and just give them a couple solid starts for every clunker that will help.

Also great post Shecky.
RE: the confusing thing to me about Vargas is they preferred him to Reed  
Rory : 2/16/2018 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13834609 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I am absolutely shocked that with the money and years equal they wouldn't have rathered bring back the guy who was one of the top setup man in baseball for them the past 2 years...

Re: Vargas, he is what is. He'll give them innings. I haven't looked at the calendar but I'm sure there will be a way to get everyone a turn in the rotation if they are pitching well enough to deserve it. I like that the pitching coach has familiarity with him. Like that he's a lefty. If he can do what Colon did and just give them a couple solid starts for every clunker that will help.

Also great post Shecky.


Reed wasn't going to stay here with Familia and Ramos on the roster. He wants to close and has a better chance in Minnesota setting up for Rodney whos unstable
RE: Do Lugo and Gsellman have options?  
Shecky : 2/16/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13834599 spike said:
Quote:
Someone ought to be the 6-7 inning guy

Yes. Not montero
Wah  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2018 1:35 pm : link
wah for Wheeler. Unlikeable guy with inflated self worth.
RE: So what happens  
Rflairr : 2/16/2018 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13834591 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
to Wheeler, Lugo, Gsellman, Montero - all in the pen?


Gsellman to Vegas, where he belongs. His arrogance bothers me. He acts like hes somehow owed a spot. Didnt pitch well until they humbled him last season
RE: Wah  
spike : 2/16/2018 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13834637 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
wah for Wheeler. Unlikeable guy with inflated self worth.


He 's always guaranteed to pitch 5 innings AT BEST.
Wheeler  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2018 1:48 pm : link
"When I'm healthy, I know I'm just as good as anybody out there." lol when was this?
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