tons of athletes have confidence in themselves even if their results don't necessarily match up with their opinions. Lots of team officials have cited Wheeler's work ethic and positive attitude and he's been through a lot in his career with injuries and such. If I were him I'd want to start too, so what's the BFD?
but his stuff projects to be better than Vargas' stuff.
So if somehow Wheeler can finally stay healthy (like Matz and Harvey) it's better for the Mets than if Vargas is the 5th starter.
Quote:
...Wheeler boasts a plus fastball that sits comfortably in the mid-90s and will scrape 98 on occasion. Due to his smooth, fluid arm action and explosive delivery, the pitch tends to jump on opposing hitters—especially right-handed hitters. Wheeler also utilizes a two-seam fastball that comes in a few ticks softer than the four-seam and features late arm-side run.....Wheeler's best offering—other than the fastball that is—is a curveball in the upper-70s that’s an absolute hammer with a big shape, tight spin and downer bite...Rosenbaum's not alone here. Everyone geeks out about Wheeler's curveball, including Parks. He agreed that Wheeler's Uncle Charlie is a plus offering, and that it has the potential to be a "true [seven] pitch." That's out of eight, meaning it's a darn good one.
that was before Wheeler made his MLB debut, what happened?
He blew out his elbow in ST 2015 & had complications in rehab in 16/17 Â
Yeah, something about Wheeler has always rubbed me the wrong way.
I like that he's confidence but he has this aura of entitlement like he's some big shot when in reality, he's proven virtually nothing at the MLB level.
Harvey has been a dick at times, too - but Matt Harvey has been an elite SP in this league before. Wheeler has not.
tons of athletes have confidence in themselves even if their results don't necessarily match up with their opinions. Lots of team officials have cited Wheeler's work ethic and positive attitude and he's been through a lot in his career with injuries and such. If I were him I'd want to start too, so what's the BFD?
He's a dummy with a huge ego. He openly admits he doesn't believe in advanced numbers.
Yeah, something about Wheeler has always rubbed me the wrong way.
I like that he's confidence but he has this aura of entitlement like he's some big shot when in reality, he's proven virtually nothing at the MLB level.
Harvey has been a dick at times, too - but Matt Harvey has been an elite SP in this league before. Wheeler has not.
I always liked Wheeler, he has ability and seems like a good guy, just not the alpha personality like Thor/Harvery. His 1 full year (2014) was solid and I remember things starting to click for him in that second half. Just no idea what he is now after 3 seasons of injuries.
"I don't want to piss anybody off but, honestly, I don't like it," he said. "Teams are starting to be more analytical these days. So I hate to say that numbers don't lie because I don't like analytics all that much but I'm not the boss here. I really can't control it. They know where I stand on that."
his rep is not that all. He's considered quite cocky with an inflated self worth. Warthen and Wheeler did not see eye to eye and Wheeler wasn't even particularly close with the other pitchers. Maybe that will change but just because Harvey has the "rep" Wheeler is not considered a plus guy himself.
weird how last year the word came out they might see Wheeler as a reliever and suddenly he brought up how he didn't think he could do it because of arm soreness, strange timing, very strange.
his rep is not that all. He's considered quite cocky with an inflated self worth. Warthen and Wheeler did not see eye to eye and Wheeler wasn't even particularly close with the other pitchers. Maybe that will change but just because Harvey has the "rep" Wheeler is not considered a plus guy himself.
That could be I certainly don't have an inside info. Just the stories reporters have written about him through the years and he didn't seem like a bad guy. I remember he specifically talked about wanting to stay a Met (prior to the WS run when it wasn't the most popular thing to say) and help this team win when his name was dangled for Gomez and prior to the Cespedes trade. Just saying he never seemed like a guy who was a public problem.
weird how last year the word came out they might see Wheeler as a reliever and suddenly he brought up how he didn't think he could do it because of arm soreness, strange timing, very strange.
LOL. Based on all evidence we've seen, his arm doesn't seem up to being able to handle 200 IP as a stater! Being an RP might be the only for him to have an MLB career.
don't even know that Matt Harvey is a particularly "bad" guy. The bartenders at a local bar all talked him up as down to earth and nice but his public persona is what it is so that's what we all accept. I'm not defending Matt Harvey either. Just saying if you keep it away from the writers it's not going to be reported "meh Wheeler is cocky and thinks he's better than he is". I mean even Jose Reyes crap.. he had nude pictures leaked online of him and a mistress, hitting his wife was above and beyond but part of it is kissing the writers asses. Piss off the wrong writer and your dirty laundry is out for everyone to see. Even King David Wright passed out drunk at an SJU party years ago and the writers knew about it. Nobody cared.
Absolutely has the ideal personality you want in your ace. Period. End of story. Don’t have to like it, and opposing team usually won’t.
Maine on the other hand...
Matt Harvey legit believes in himself. Some of these guys talk a big game. It doesn't mean Harvey will ever bounce back (I don't believe he will) but his body let him down. Mentally he could have been a true great.
I read the quotes but I'm trying not to buy into them Â
where Matt Harvey says he feels there is no reason he can't be as good as he ever was.
It’s not just him. Boras, Eilland, and Callaway are all saying similar stuff. To be fair we were told he wouldn’t be 100% healthy last year until June and he had no offseason to prepare like he normally would. I also feel like visually he would start out hitting 95 in the first inning but would be totally gassed by the 5th throwing 92/91. I think it was a conditioning issue as well. I’m cautiously optimistic but obviously not expecting anything yet. Alex Cobb had TOS and Tommy John and made it back. It’s possible.
That's where I just personally have to put on the brakes Â
and it's not to say the reports aren't true. It's just me.
if you remember last year I thought no way can the Mets have injuries anything like 2016, but yet 2017 was probably worse - I predicted 95 wins for the Mets.
So while I love to hear it, Harvey is possibly the first home grown Mets pitcher since Gooden I thought had electric stuff. a true potential ace/perennial cy young candidate.
DeGrom doesn't maybe get the credit he deserves because he does too, but Harvey came first and made a much younger debut, was a CT native, he had people dreaming.
Now, I'm less than cautiously optimistic, I'm not quite pessimistic, but I expect nothing.
where Matt Harvey says he feels there is no reason he can't be as good as he ever was.
It’s not just him. Boras, Eilland, and Callaway are all saying similar stuff. To be fair we were told he wouldn’t be 100% healthy last year until June and he had no offseason to prepare like he normally would. I also feel like visually he would start out hitting 95 in the first inning but would be totally gassed by the 5th throwing 92/91. I think it was a conditioning issue as well. I’m cautiously optimistic but obviously not expecting anything yet. Alex Cobb had TOS and Tommy John and made it back. It’s possible.
Alex Cobb has not been the same pitcher. 2013-2014 3.29 FIP, after his 2 injuries (last 34 starts) 4.32 FIP. We'd all take that from Harvey but that's not exactly "making it back" in terms of what we would want from Matt Harvey
I meant make it back to acceptable baseball standards Â
with ample quote from Harvey, Callaway and Eiland. Basically that Callaway and Eiland convinced Sandy not to trade Harvey because they thought they could work with him. They watched his tape last year and liked how the ball was coming out late in the season.
Harvey also said last year his right shoulder was weaker than his left, and that now it is much stronger. It’s not uncommon to read this stuff in ST, and I seriously doubt we will see the Harvey of old, but if they can get something from him, it could be an interesting year. Matt Harvey “A Lot Left in the Tank” - ( New Window )
Of fWAR from 4 vets this offseason (2017). That’s before you even get into the returns of Thor, Familia, ect. I have a hard time envisioning this team being “less” than a 80 win team.
RE: Strength in numbers. That's a good way to play the starting pitcher Â
game. I'm warming up to the Vargas signing since this, as was said, is his second year after TJ.
I worry he clogs a spot and blocks a more upside play but he’s been basically a league average pitcher since 2010. Likening him to Colon is fair I think. He likely does give us some innings. It’s not the worst move. I was much more excited about some of other moves but it’s all good.
FWIW, I love Matt Harvey - I think you guys know that. I've been one of his biggest fans. So, when I mentioned him earlier, it wasn't to say I look at he and Wheeler the same way.
I personally have always felt that Harveys persona was good for the team, not bad.
But when he sucks on the mound, it's a different ballgame.
That said, I do understand why he's rubbed people the wrong way at times.
I'm rooting for him - I'd love to see him get back to the old Matt this year. It would be HUGE for us. Not counting on it, but it would make such a big difference.
I think that gets lost in the “Fab 5” stuff and the unrealistic expectations some Mets fans had. If Harvey did bounce back to say... 2015 levels... The Mets would have something nobody else has and we would be a major threat in the postseason.
The 51s are likely going to have a pretty interesting pen over 2018 Â
Tyler Bashlor, Callahan, Rhame, Drew Smith, possibly Bautista eventually. That’s some serious heat. I honestly think Sewald might have to go back to AAA. There isn’t much room if some of the SP have to go there.
because it really blocks someone like wheeler/montero/matz/lugo/gsellman from flourishing. I understand preventing injury, but I agree with some of the other posters that that money could have been better served on an addison reed type, while signing someone like bartolo (or actually bartolo himself) to a minor league deal. Heck the anibal sanchez signing made more sense.
I also don't really understand the Bruce signing either Â
I don't like Conforto in CF, and Nimmo is the only Met I see as a breakout candidate and he's blocked now. I think we could have spent the money on bruce/vargas instead on an arietta/darvish contract and then traded harvey for another need.
I am however positive about the immense depth of this team.
I think he is such a great fit for the top of the order/leadoff hitter. If he played 2B, I'd be psyched, but he's a 4th outfielder. Heard some scouts compare him to Michael Brantley - elite plate discipline, improving power, decent outfielder. Just a good baseball player.
Mets need another lefty, especially a guy with a good curve. Advanced metrics just can't account for the positive effect a guy like Vargas can have as a change of pace on hard throwing RHP like Thor, Degrom and Harvey. This move has Omar written all over it.
I also like adding depth guys. Last season was wrecked when Thor went down and Mets were pulling guys off the street to start. Vargas is a classic quality 4/5th starter who might not shut down the opponent but keeps you in games and gives the team a chance to win.
I think he is such a great fit for the top of the order/leadoff hitter. If he played 2B, I'd be psyched, but he's a 4th outfielder. Heard some scouts compare him to Michael Brantley - elite plate discipline, improving power, decent outfielder. Just a good baseball player.
Nimmo hit .227 at Vegas last year and he is always injured.
With MDD back in the fold, Nimmo might not be on the team after Conforto comes back.
Another one I’m keeping my eye on this week as a surprise. Bautista, the kid we got for Reed. Don’t know if he can pitch. Haven’t even seen him throw a BP. But walking by early AM warmups. Literally just lined up having a catch to loosen up. His whip, WOW, it jumped. Just a warmup, didn’t recognize him (wearing warmup shirt, so no name or number) but I had to stop to watch for a minute. He’s unique looking so figured out it was him. But I will certainly be going out of my way to see him throw the next few weeks. Huge grain of salt though.
So if somehow Wheeler can finally stay healthy (like Matz and Harvey) it's better for the Mets than if Vargas is the 5th starter.
that was before Wheeler made his MLB debut, what happened?
I like that he's confidence but he has this aura of entitlement like he's some big shot when in reality, he's proven virtually nothing at the MLB level.
Harvey has been a dick at times, too - but Matt Harvey has been an elite SP in this league before. Wheeler has not.
He's a dummy with a huge ego. He openly admits he doesn't believe in advanced numbers.
I like that he's confidence but he has this aura of entitlement like he's some big shot when in reality, he's proven virtually nothing at the MLB level.
Harvey has been a dick at times, too - but Matt Harvey has been an elite SP in this league before. Wheeler has not.
I always liked Wheeler, he has ability and seems like a good guy, just not the alpha personality like Thor/Harvery. His 1 full year (2014) was solid and I remember things starting to click for him in that second half. Just no idea what he is now after 3 seasons of injuries.
Vargas in 2017 = 18
Wheelers career WAR is about HALF of Vargas in 2017 alone lol
Vargas in 2017 = 18
I am not defending Wheeler just pointing out that W-L record for pitchers is the worst stat in determining a pitchers worth.
That could be I certainly don't have an inside info. Just the stories reporters have written about him through the years and he didn't seem like a bad guy. I remember he specifically talked about wanting to stay a Met (prior to the WS run when it wasn't the most popular thing to say) and help this team win when his name was dangled for Gomez and prior to the Cespedes trade. Just saying he never seemed like a guy who was a public problem.
Jeffy probably also adds the cost of sunflower seeds and Gatorade to their payroll numbers.
LOL. Based on all evidence we've seen, his arm doesn't seem up to being able to handle 200 IP as a stater! Being an RP might be the only for him to have an MLB career.
I have seen probably 4 or 5 separate shots that seemed like PR shots with Thor, DeGrom, Harvey and Matz and I kept wondering, no Wheeler?
Maine on the other hand...
It almost cemented his status as a NY icon
Maine on the other hand...
Matt Harvey legit believes in himself. Some of these guys talk a big game. It doesn't mean Harvey will ever bounce back (I don't believe he will) but his body let him down. Mentally he could have been a true great.
It’s not just him. Boras, Eilland, and Callaway are all saying similar stuff. To be fair we were told he wouldn’t be 100% healthy last year until June and he had no offseason to prepare like he normally would. I also feel like visually he would start out hitting 95 in the first inning but would be totally gassed by the 5th throwing 92/91. I think it was a conditioning issue as well. I’m cautiously optimistic but obviously not expecting anything yet. Alex Cobb had TOS and Tommy John and made it back. It’s possible.
if you remember last year I thought no way can the Mets have injuries anything like 2016, but yet 2017 was probably worse - I predicted 95 wins for the Mets.
So while I love to hear it, Harvey is possibly the first home grown Mets pitcher since Gooden I thought had electric stuff. a true potential ace/perennial cy young candidate.
DeGrom doesn't maybe get the credit he deserves because he does too, but Harvey came first and made a much younger debut, was a CT native, he had people dreaming.
Now, I'm less than cautiously optimistic, I'm not quite pessimistic, but I expect nothing.
Quote:
where Matt Harvey says he feels there is no reason he can't be as good as he ever was.
It’s not just him. Boras, Eilland, and Callaway are all saying similar stuff. To be fair we were told he wouldn’t be 100% healthy last year until June and he had no offseason to prepare like he normally would. I also feel like visually he would start out hitting 95 in the first inning but would be totally gassed by the 5th throwing 92/91. I think it was a conditioning issue as well. I’m cautiously optimistic but obviously not expecting anything yet. Alex Cobb had TOS and Tommy John and made it back. It’s possible.
Alex Cobb has not been the same pitcher. 2013-2014 3.29 FIP, after his 2 injuries (last 34 starts) 4.32 FIP. We'd all take that from Harvey but that's not exactly "making it back" in terms of what we would want from Matt Harvey
Anyone with a brain would take a 4.23 FIP Harvey this year. I mean he was in the mix for worst SP in baseball last season.
Harvey also said last year his right shoulder was weaker than his left, and that now it is much stronger. It’s not uncommon to read this stuff in ST, and I seriously doubt we will see the Harvey of old, but if they can get something from him, it could be an interesting year.
Matt Harvey “A Lot Left in the Tank” - ( New Window )
I worry he clogs a spot and blocks a more upside play but he’s been basically a league average pitcher since 2010. Likening him to Colon is fair I think. He likely does give us some innings. It’s not the worst move. I was much more excited about some of other moves but it’s all good.
Season will still come down to key pieces like Thor returning to health and the maturation of guys like Rosario IMO.
I personally have always felt that Harveys persona was good for the team, not bad.
But when he sucks on the mound, it's a different ballgame.
That said, I do understand why he's rubbed people the wrong way at times.
I'm rooting for him - I'd love to see him get back to the old Matt this year. It would be HUGE for us. Not counting on it, but it would make such a big difference.
2.) deGrom
3.) Harvey
4.) Matz
5.) Vargas
Familia
Swarzak
Ramos
Blevins
2nd LOOGY not yet here
Wheeler
Montero
AAA rotation
Gsellman
Lugo
Flexen
Oswalt
Molina/Knapp
Suddenly the AAA team doesn’t look too bad. No Wilks, Pills, or Millones this year.
I am however positive about the immense depth of this team.
Mets need another lefty, especially a guy with a good curve. Advanced metrics just can't account for the positive effect a guy like Vargas can have as a change of pace on hard throwing RHP like Thor, Degrom and Harvey. This move has Omar written all over it.
I also like adding depth guys. Last season was wrecked when Thor went down and Mets were pulling guys off the street to start. Vargas is a classic quality 4/5th starter who might not shut down the opponent but keeps you in games and gives the team a chance to win.
Not saying it clicked, but I would not be surprised to see him break out this year.
Nimmo hit .227 at Vegas last year and he is always injured.
With MDD back in the fold, Nimmo might not be on the team after Conforto comes back.
(Lol, autocorrect above)