Richburg and Pugh/New Oline

.

In comment 13834531 Rflairr said:

Quote:

.

No thanks. Can’t stay healthy and has been terrible for 2 seasons in a row.

"Reasonable Plan to point our OL in the right direction"

Joey in VA described Richburg perfectly: hhe's John Jerry. And let someone else overpay for Pugh's 10 games of mediocrity per season.

Will look to sign a low to medium level free agent OL in addition to Norwell. He loves hidden gems.

one who has not been impressed with Richburgh since his first 2 seasons? Whenever he has played the past couple of year there is constant pressure up the middle. I actually think Brett Jones is the BETTER player.

In comment 13834554 Josh in the City said:

Quote:

one who has not been impressed with Richburgh since his first 2 seasons? Whenever he has played the past couple of year there is constant pressure up the middle. I actually think Brett Jones is the BETTER player.

get in line after me. As long as he is C they will never have a clean pocket.

In comment 13834533 BigBlueDownTheShore said:

Quote:

In comment 13834531 Rflairr said: Quote: . No thanks. Can’t stay healthy and has been terrible for 2 seasons in a row.

Ignore Rflairr, he posts unpopular opinions just to incite a reaction. It's usually one sentence long, Guerilla style trolling.

In comment 13834554 Josh in the City said:

Quote:

one who has not been impressed with Richburgh since his first 2 seasons? Whenever he has played the past couple of year there is constant pressure up the middle. I actually think Brett Jones is the BETTER player.

I didn't see it after his first season let alone his 2nd

was it took until mid season for the brain trust to figure out the most effective line combination. And they didn't do it willingly, it took injuries for it to happen.

center. He can certainly be upgraded, but in a year where we are getting pieces of the puzzle together on the O-line, he can certainly fill in as a cheaper option.

DG
Shurmur
DG + Shurmur
Hunter
Shurmur + Hunter
DG+Shurmur+Hunter
???

Of course I got ‘killed’ here flon BBI for saying it...

After playing well at center for just a single season he has been as bad as any of our OL this year and last year...

In comment 13834619 NYRiese said:

Quote:

DG Shurmur DG + Shurmur Hunter Shurmur + Hunter DG+Shurmur+Hunter ???

Maybe he goes to guard and we draft a RT. Flowers is going to be here at least one more season. He isn't going to ride the bench. He's apart of the equation right now.

Richburg has never really been given a fair shake with the Guards he has been paired up with. When Fluker got into the lineup, Richburg was no longer in it with a concussion. Previous to that, hes had the weak John Jerry next to him, and Pugh in and out of the lineup to his left.

In order to succeed, I truly think in order for Richburg to succeed, he needs to be next to a powerful guard (i.e. Norwell. Would have been nice to see what he could have done next to Fluker, but that fell through.

In comment 13834657 gmen9892 said:

Quote:

Richburg has never really been given a fair shake with the Guards he has been paired up with. When Fluker got into the lineup, Richburg was no longer in it with a concussion. Previous to that, hes had the weak John Jerry next to him, and Pugh in and out of the lineup to his left. In order to succeed, I truly think in order for Richburg to succeed, he needs to be next to a powerful guard (i.e. Norwell. Would have been nice to see what he could have done next to Fluker, but that fell through.

SO then you just line up a DT right over him and blow him back. He's too weak. He's physically overmatched.

In comment 13834657 gmen9892 said:

Quote:

Richburg has never really been given a fair shake with the Guards he has been paired up with. When Fluker got into the lineup, Richburg was no longer in it with a concussion. Previous to that, hes had the weak John Jerry next to him, and Pugh in and out of the lineup to his left. In order to succeed, I truly think in order for Richburg to succeed, he needs to be next to a powerful guard (i.e. Norwell. Would have been nice to see what he could have done next to Fluker, but that fell through.

Fluker is exactly what he was last year a backup. He is not some fantastic gem guard. He's good depth. What he brings in the run game he lacks in the pass game. He is not an answer, to the guard position.

In comment 13834712 BigBlueDownTheShore said:

Quote:

In comment 13834657 gmen9892 said: Quote: Richburg has never really been given a fair shake with the Guards he has been paired up with. When Fluker got into the lineup, Richburg was no longer in it with a concussion. Previous to that, hes had the weak John Jerry next to him, and Pugh in and out of the lineup to his left. In order to succeed, I truly think in order for Richburg to succeed, he needs to be next to a powerful guard (i.e. Norwell. Would have been nice to see what he could have done next to Fluker, but that fell through. Fluker is exactly what he was last year a backup. He is not some fantastic gem guard. He's good depth. What he brings in the run game he lacks in the pass game. He is not an answer, to the guard position.

I never said he was the answer, but he was a strong guard that helped in the run game. Shaun O'Hara was not a strong Center either, but he had Snee next to him. That helped him with the bigger DTs he had to handle.

Holy Crap God No...are you blind? He stinks, gets blown up at the PoA regularly. Jones is already the better player and the separation was growing as he got more playing time. Richburg is a bust.

Goodbye to Richburg and Pugh. They just aren't good enough.

And Flowers shouldn't be one of them. He need to be tried at guard where quickness won't be as much of an issue.

In comment 13834531 Rflairr said:

Quote:

.

Why? He is AWFUL

In comment 13834554 Josh in the City said:

Quote:

one who has not been impressed with Richburgh since his first 2 seasons? Whenever he has played the past couple of year there is constant pressure up the middle. I actually think Brett Jones is the BETTER player.

I have not thought much of him ever, but in year 3 and 4 if you watch our lines interior he has no pop off the ball. Lousy driver and just not good play. The head injury to keep him out 12 weeks? Means he needs to retire

Is better spent at the LB position and then use the draft to hammer OL.

had one good year. He stinks

that we desperately need to rid this site of is this stupid idea that a player would somehow be better for us if they had better players next to them. I've never understood WTF would make someone think that way. It's really ridiculous.

Jones is better then Richburg, another horrendous Jerry Reese pick. It wasn't a wide receiver so he whiffed once again.

That was run out at the end of the season was just as good as the line that started the season. Why would you pay a nickel for Pugh or Richburg when there was literally no drop-off when they were gone?

That is actually good news in a sense, it made it clear that they were lousy players, or at best highly over rated players. Pugh was good at one time, but injuries ended whatever he was going to be. Now you want to take a chance on him improving, he can't stay on the field, no way do you pay big money for that, you have to be out of your mind to pay either of those guys.

Don't get too excited about Flowers either, maybe he can be serviceable, but he was a 10th pick and will always be diluted into thinking he is a good player and will want more money then he is worth, he stays on the field, that is the good part, he plays bad, that is the bad part. Time to move on from horrible offensive line play, you only do that when you get rid of the horrible players making the line horrible, pretty simple equation.

at this moment in time, we do not have one viable starter on this OL....and this is all going to be fixed in one season?

In comment 13834942 Doomster said:

Quote:

at this moment in time, we do not have one viable starter on this OL....and this is all going to be fixed in one season?

I don't think it will be.

While I think we need to QB if we think one of the guys at the top is a franchise QB, I'm not 100% all in on it - if we think Barkley is a HoF RB.

The reason is because I think this team will be picking top 5 or worse again next year. We can't fix the OL in one offseason where FA pickings are slim and the draft seems to be weak on OL. Gettleman can't just summon guys from the ether.

The reason people think teams can turn around quickly in the NFL these days is because most teams indeed have 6-10 to 10-6 talent that can swing based on a player here or there, a play here or there. A few teams are superior to that level and a few teams are inferior. We're one of the inferior ones right now. The roster is a mess.

...at all. The guy can't stay healthy - period. The perception of how good he is based on being compared to the rest of this O-Line, which makes some think he is good. Face it - he's the King of Dipshits, which on top of his health risks - make him grossly overrated here.

Richburg I could see since he hasn't been good in 2 years. He might need to take a 1 year deal. Because of the market and his versatility, Pugh will likely have some suitors and there is no way I'd commit any sort of meaningful contract towards a guy who is always hurt, not really a difference maker when he plays, and has had some criticisms of how serious he is about football. I won't deny he could put it together, but I wouldn't risk the money to find out.

Whatever the $ difference, it's worth landing Solder or Norwell. Neither guy misses games. Both have played for winning teams and will bring the type of serious mentality this team needs more of. It's not the Pats nature to spend big on a 30 year old and Carolina doesn't have a ton of cap room, so hopefully, 1 of them can be pried loose.

We should have took Morgan Moses

That all falls squarely in the lap of the incompetent GM who was long overdue for termination. Pugh should be a goner. He tells a good story from Wednesday through Friday in the media and, if he’s not sidelined, he’s about as pedestrian as they come on for roughly 8-10 Sunday’s a season. Richburg is just plain bad. I remember Sy’56 saying as far back as 2 seasons ago that he thought he shouldn’t be looked upon as the answer at C, citing he looked better his first year because he was the recipient of a lot of help from the OG’s. One on one and he was exposed. Sy was dead on. Both should move on. Now, Gettleman has to rebuild the entire unit from scratch. You’re not getting 5 starters in one offseason. I do think we can secure 2 long term answers tho this spring: Norwell (OG) in FA and Price (C) at the top of round 2. If they get extremely fortunate, maybe Wheeler can be an answer at one of the OT’s, leaving 2 spots to fill in the spring of 2019. Make no mistake, there is a lot of work that must be done.

In comment 13835051 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

Richburg I could see since he hasn't been good in 2 years. He might need to take a 1 year deal. Because of the market and his versatility, Pugh will likely have some suitors and there is no way I'd commit any sort of meaningful contract towards a guy who is always hurt, not really a difference maker when he plays, and has had some criticisms of how serious he is about football. I won't deny he could put it together, but I wouldn't risk the money to find out. Whatever the $ difference, it's worth landing Solder or Norwell. Neither guy misses games. Both have played for winning teams and will bring the type of serious mentality this team needs more of. It's not the Pats nature to spend big on a 30 year old and Carolina doesn't have a ton of cap room, so hopefully, 1 of them can be pried loose.

Where have you heard/read/seen than Pugh is not serious about football?

In comment 13835051 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

Whatever the $ difference, it's worth landing Solder or Norwell. Neither guy misses games. Both have played for winning teams and will bring the type of serious mentality this team needs more of. It's not the Pats nature to spend big on a 30 year old and Carolina doesn't have a ton of cap room, so hopefully, 1 of them can be pried loose.

Except in 2015, when Solder landed on IR in week 6 and Norwell missed 3 games with a hamstring injury.

Neither one has Pugh's injury history, that's true. But there's no reason to say "neither guy misses games" when it's absolutely not accurate.

if affordable . Both showed some good stuff since they have been here. Pugh's versatility is valuable and Richburg could improve as well in a new scheme and rooster. Now for the trifecta can Flowers find a place to play? Hate to lose his size, attitude and desire to get better. Guard maybe. Optimistic with DG here now.

In comment 13834835 Since1965 said:

Quote:

And Flowers shouldn't be one of them. He need to be tried at guard where quickness won't be as much of an issue.

This is ABSOLUTELY false- and I have no idea where people get these ideas.

OG must have good footwork and good handplacement. Both are some of Flowers biggest weaknesses. He is actually a prototypical RT. He is strong, actually has a good initial punch and is large and hard to get around.

What also helps Flowers is that at OT, if you are beat, you can carry or push the man outside past the play. At OG, if you are beat, the play is over. Quickness DOES matter inside. If you are struggling to get your footing- as Flowers does on occasion, you are beat. If you can't get your hands on the man, you are beat. If you can't slide quickly to pick up the interior blitz, you are beat.

Flowers may get beat at OT by speed rushers, but as long as he holds the inside position, he can still force them outside the play- which doesn't happen at OG.

The Giants need to move Flowers to RT, and focus on finding 3 new interior OL. Bring in an aging vet at LT to compete with Wheeler.

Especially Richburg, who is not even as good as Jones.

Pugh is above replacement level when healthy but he’s not a healthy player.

These two were part of the reason we had a bottom 3 OL in 2016-17.

I think some of you are so used to bad OL play you’ve forgotten what good OL look like. Not an insult - it tends to happen to fans who watch game after game of bad play at a position.

We can and will do better.

Would rather spend the money on plus players (at any position) and roll the dice with UDFA over guys like Richburg and Pugh

In comment 13835189 rich in DC said:

Quote:

In comment 13834835 Since1965 said: Quote: And Flowers shouldn't be one of them. He need to be tried at guard where quickness won't be as much of an issue. This is ABSOLUTELY false- and I have no idea where people get these ideas. OG must have good footwork and good handplacement. Both are some of Flowers biggest weaknesses. He is actually a prototypical RT. He is strong, actually has a good initial punch and is large and hard to get around. What also helps Flowers is that at OT, if you are beat, you can carry or push the man outside past the play. At OG, if you are beat, the play is over. Quickness DOES matter inside. If you are struggling to get your footing- as Flowers does on occasion, you are beat. If you can't get your hands on the man, you are beat. If you can't slide quickly to pick up the interior blitz, you are beat. Flowers may get beat at OT by speed rushers, but as long as he holds the inside position, he can still force them outside the play- which doesn't happen at OG. The Giants need to move Flowers to RT, and focus on finding 3 new interior OL. Bring in an aging vet at LT to compete with Wheeler.

Good post

In comment 13835151 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 13835051 Eric on Li said: Quote: Richburg I could see since he hasn't been good in 2 years. He might need to take a 1 year deal. Because of the market and his versatility, Pugh will likely have some suitors and there is no way I'd commit any sort of meaningful contract towards a guy who is always hurt, not really a difference maker when he plays, and has had some criticisms of how serious he is about football. I won't deny he could put it together, but I wouldn't risk the money to find out. Whatever the $ difference, it's worth landing Solder or Norwell. Neither guy misses games. Both have played for winning teams and will bring the type of serious mentality this team needs more of. It's not the Pats nature to spend big on a 30 year old and Carolina doesn't have a ton of cap room, so hopefully, 1 of them can be pried loose. Where have you heard/read/seen than Pugh is not serious about football?

2 places. I know a few people who went to Syracuse with him, including former roomates who lived with him after he was drafted, and he was a frequent partier even during the season. I'd heard a bunch of those stories as recently as training camp 2016. The 2nd place is in all the interviews the ex-giants have given (Snee/Diehl/Ohara/Banks) where multiple have made similar points that the entire line needed to take their jobs more seriously, while specifically pointing out that wasn't just a shot just at Flowers, in conjunction with quotes along the lines of "guys need to learn how to play through nagging injuries" - which by process of elimination pretty much has to be about him since Flowers/Richburg often played through injuries.

In comment 13835321 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 13835151 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 13835051 Eric on Li said: Quote: Richburg I could see since he hasn't been good in 2 years. He might need to take a 1 year deal. Because of the market and his versatility, Pugh will likely have some suitors and there is no way I'd commit any sort of meaningful contract towards a guy who is always hurt, not really a difference maker when he plays, and has had some criticisms of how serious he is about football. I won't deny he could put it together, but I wouldn't risk the money to find out. Whatever the $ difference, it's worth landing Solder or Norwell. Neither guy misses games. Both have played for winning teams and will bring the type of serious mentality this team needs more of. It's not the Pats nature to spend big on a 30 year old and Carolina doesn't have a ton of cap room, so hopefully, 1 of them can be pried loose. Where have you heard/read/seen than Pugh is not serious about football? 2 places. I know a few people who went to Syracuse with him, including former roomates who lived with him after he was drafted, and he was a frequent partier even during the season. I'd heard a bunch of those stories as recently as training camp 2016. The 2nd place is in all the interviews the ex-giants have given (Snee/Diehl/Ohara/Banks) where multiple have made similar points that the entire line needed to take their jobs more seriously, while specifically pointing out that wasn't just a shot just at Flowers, in conjunction with quotes along the lines of "guys need to learn how to play through nagging injuries" - which by process of elimination pretty much has to be about him since Flowers/Richburg often played through injuries.

So you're FOS. Got it. Thanks.

In comment 13834531 Rflairr said:

Quote:

.

At what cost? One good year his 2nd. . And if you want to say the last two he’s been injured then why re-sign him u less it’s on the cheap. He’s another a guy who can’t stay healthy. Borderline starter every year but his second IMO

In comment 13834585 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

Quote:

In comment 13834533 BigBlueDownTheShore said: Quote: In comment 13834531 Rflairr said: Quote: . No thanks. Can’t stay healthy and has been terrible for 2 seasons in a row. Ignore Rflairr, he posts unpopular opinions just to incite a reaction. It's usually one sentence long, Guerilla style trolling.

The new ChrisR?

three if you include Flowers. To be lost if this happens. Hope they can be salvaged by this new regime. Any wonder DG was hired and the others were terminated.