“New York Giants: Josh Allen. It could be Darnold or Josh Rosen too, obviously.
Much smarter NFLers than I told me in the last few days they think GM Dave Gettleman will pass on a quarterback to fill another major need at number two overall, and I don’t doubt it.
But the Giants have a 37-year-old quarterback who has been average at best for the past six years, and I don’t see New York passing on a good quarterback crop when the chance to get the next long-termer is there. Allen’s the kind of big, strong, developmental player (though his accuracy could be a big issue) who would be a good pupil under Manning and Pat Shurmur for the next couple of years. Or less...”
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In comment 13836003 Britt in VA said:
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game, a QB may be secondary in the plan.
Just looking at it from all sides.
If that what you believe the philosophy will be --"everything on offense going to go through the run", then yes, perhaps a QB could be secondary in the plans. That's very 1980s, but possible.
It seems to be a model that's circling back around in the NFL.
I'm beginning to wonder if colleges will every produce them again with any regularity.
I'm beginning to wonder if colleges will every produce them again with any regularity.
College spread offenses give the NFL not ready for prime time QBs and offensive linemen.
Since we can't see the Giants rookie QB evaluations, I think we are all just guessing on what we feel is best for the team.
Yeah, well when Barkley throws up 30 reps of 225 on the bench press, power cleans 405, and then runs a 4.3 40, he may very well solidify his spot as best player in the draft.
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what I do know is that since Andrew Luck, I haven't really seen a true old fashioned can't miss "franchise QB" come out of the draft.
I'm beginning to wonder if colleges will every produce them again with any regularity.
College spread offenses give the NFL not ready for prime time QBs and offensive linemen.
Since we can't see the Giants rookie QB evaluations, I think we are all just guessing on what we feel is best for the team.
Definitely guessing, but I'm also basing my guess off of piecing together Gettleman's comments thus far.
Gotcha
Cleveland would get pick 2 and our 5th rounder
NYG would get pick 4, 33, 35 and Clevelands 4th rounder.
The only way I see Gettlemen trading out of the pick is if Cleveland takes Darnold number 1. I believe he is the QB they want, otherwise a trade back is the way to build this team. I think Nelson, Barkley and Chubb rank higher than the other QB's.
Imagine NYG drafting Nelson in round 1, then having picks 33,34 and 35 would be insane.
I'd like to live in this fantasy land where we get a haul like this.
Mara knows Eli is on his way out. That's why he allowed him to be benched last year. They hired a guy whose known for working well & developing QBs. Nothing points in the direction of drafting a position other than QB.
Peter King may not be always right but he always states whether he's espousing an opinion or when he's stating something as fact. And that alone places him higher than most of the hacks out there who write a 2 page article that is nothing more than bullshit disguised as journalism.
And King is not always wrong.
Sold.
Cleveland would get pick 2 and our 5th rounder
NYG would get pick 4, 33, 35 and Clevelands 4th rounder.
The only way I see Gettlemen trading out of the pick is if Cleveland takes Darnold number 1. I believe he is the QB kthey want, otherwise a trade back is the way to build this team. I think Nelson, Barkley and Chubb rank higher than the other QB's.
Imagine NYG drafting Nelson in round 1, then having picks 33,34 and 35 would be insane.
DGs trades in Carolina were always productive in providing a starter, or solid backup. While I doubt Dorsey would make that trade(Sashi Brown might have), but if it did go down, it could provide an incredible haul, or flexibility to maybe use 2 of the 3 to get back into rd 1 for somebody specifically at 31(31 and the SF 42 for the 34+35; YK lil Bill) or higher.
Keep pushing the false narrative that Rosen is disliked by his teammates.
Do you honestly think that Buffalo is going to trade four 1st round picks and a 2nd this year for the #2 pick?
Just looking at it from all sides.
I agree; hand off left, pass, hand off right: hand off up the middle, hand off right, swing pass. Don't need a QB that can throw bombs, just one with ability to throw touch passes and quick outs and over the middles to our receiving corps as it is, working in more passes to Ellison also. Maybe get that Jacobs clone from UTexas and go Thunder & Lightening again.
Let's say Darnold goes to CLE at #1 and is off the board...
Rosen- concussions, personality issues. Might be off the Giants draft board due to his issues. Nice pure pocket passer but he is the least mobile of the first round QB's. The best thing Rosen has going for him is that he is pro-ready and taylor made for the NFL, he can step in right away and be solid as a rookie. But the Giants don't need a guy who can play right now at the QB position.
Mayfield- 6'0, may rub some people as cocky/arrogant. Alcohol related arrest. Former walk-on. Big 12 spread offense QB. Will his play style adapt to the NFL? Even if you like him, is he worth the #2 overall pick?
Allen- he is clean off the field, has all of the traits you are looking for. Incredible arm, good athleticism, great size. But, he is not accurate, has not been productive, and played against weak competition. Against top competition, he struggled. Although, he was one of the most improved players over the week at the senior bowl so maybe he is coachable. But, perhaps the Giants look at him as too much of a gamble to take at #2?
Basically, I feel like the QB decision will come down to Allen or Rosen, and I'm not confident the Giants will take either of those 2.
I'm beginning to wonder if colleges will every produce them again with any regularity.
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what I do know is that since Andrew Luck, I haven't really seen a true old fashioned can't miss "franchise QB" come out of the draft.
I'm beginning to wonder if colleges will every produce them again with any regularity.
It is odd, I agree. Wentz looked the part before injury. Other than that no one looks very special.
Coming into the draft there were several of questions about Wentz. He was not considered a sure thing by any means. The sure things like Luck, Mannings, etc are becoming increasingly rare.
I was not a fan of Goff, I will admit I was very wrong, but I do like Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield more than any of the QB's in last year's draft.
Mara knows Eli is on his way out. That's why he allowed him to be benched last year. They hired a guy whose known for working well & developing QBs. Nothing points in the direction of drafting a position other than QB.
PK is far out of touch with his NFL sources.
Unless those people were Jerry Reese and Ben McAdoo.
There are so many position players I'd rather build around than Mariota and Winston.
Give me a great player rather than being tied at the hip to a QB like Mariota or Winston for the next 5-10 years.
Here's the issue on a qb. If Eli plays well next year, and they win, there not cutting him and the number 2 pick in the draft would then sit for 2 years. That doesn't work in today's football. Kids have to play.
The giants, imo, trade the pick to bills for 21 and 22 this year and there 1 next year. Here's why. They have 3 of the top 33 picks this year and can try to win right away. They also have protection if there wrong. Here's how. If there bad they have there own high pick next year plus the bills number 1 if they need a qb.
I think logically that makes the most sense because if eli plays well he won't b cut and this org feels they will win next year.
I also expect them to be aggressive in free agency as fyi
(1) Eli Manning has several years left as a qb and last year was aberrational. Despite the fact that the Giants haven't been anything close to a playoff team 4 of the last 5 seasons, where he is the common denominator.
(2) Eli Manning can still be a productive qb if he has a great team around him. Despite the fact that he takes up so much of the cap space that they won't be able to get much more impact talent on the roster, especially given the poor drafting over the past decade.
(3) There is no flawless John Elway type prospect in this draft, despite the fact that the overwhelming consensus is that this is the best qb draft in years with two high end prospects.
(4) The NFL is moving toward a running game style 80s offense again, despite the fact that there is no discernible evidence of this and given that the rules now favor a passing oriented offense.
(5) The Giants can trade up to number 1 or 2 anytime they want in the next 2 drafts, despite next year looking to be a historically weak class and the fact the that it's extremely difficult to trade in any given year, and overall it's a very poor qb strategy.
If I were a betting man, I'll say that this time next the ones who didn't want Darnold and/or Rosen will be on here screaming that we had another mediocre season and both of those guys look like franchise qbs.
It's just so simple to find a franchise qb in this league that we can pass up on that opportunity this year. I'll say there's a 0% chance the Giants walk away without one of Darnold/Rosen this draft.
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Cleveland wants to come out if this draft with the best QB in the draft and maybe also get the best player in the draft in Barkley. Here is a possible trade that could work:
Cleveland would get pick 2 and our 5th rounder
NYG would get pick 4, 33, 35 and Clevelands 4th rounder.
The only way I see Gettlemen trading out of the pick is if Cleveland takes Darnold number 1. I believe he is the QB they want, otherwise a trade back is the way to build this team. I think Nelson, Barkley and Chubb rank higher than the other QB's.
Imagine NYG drafting Nelson in round 1, then having picks 33,34 and 35 would be insane.
I'd like to live in this fantasy land where we get a haul like this.
You say " fantasy land " but the reality is that Cleveland is a team with less needs than NYG and a shit ton of picks. They need quality over quantity. Their O Line is better than ours. They have a good young defense. After a Starting Vet QB ( McCarron ? ), a future QB ( Darnold ) and a stud RB, they could go in any direction. They would still have the last pick in round 2 and the firs pick in round 3. If they want Darnold AND Barkley it would cost them and they may think giving up 4 picks to get both players and receiving the 2nd pick in round 5 is a fair trade.
I'm one of the biggest Eli Manning supporters, but I'm also objective. He's not the qb he once was. He's aging, and doesn't generate the same type of power in throws he once did, that's why his deep ball has become so inconsistent. It's just part of aging, it's very rare to a qb his age to win a super bowl in this league. I also think there is nothing wrong with one of the top qbs sitting behind manning for 1 year.
If this draft is just about next year or even the year after, it's a short sighted view that could lead the Giants into a never ending spiral of looking for the next franchise qb. Just consider 2004, the Giants had a qb in his prime who they let walk away for Eli. Why should this be different? I know we all have sentimental attachment to Manning, I get it I really do. But we're not being objective if we're saying he has "a lot" of good football left.
After all, do we all really want to be in the position of shelling out 150m for a mediocre Kirk Cousins type qb in 2 seasons or worse, trading away several draft picks just to get to the pick they have today in 2 seasons? And then if that qb fails, we not only have a first round pick invested but several other picks? If you're ok with that roll the dice with Manning and Webb and then don't complain when we are back in 1994-2003.
With that in mind, I realize Eli is now 37. How often will the Giants pick at or near the top of the draft? If they really like a QB at #2, you take him. If not, go to plan B. (Barkley).
So, yes, I have no problem with taking a qb #2 and sitting him for two years while Eli plays out the string. If Eli gets hurt or goes off the cliff, you've got someone who can step in. If you don't do it, you pray you're right that Eli has three or 4 years left in him because next year is a weak qb class and who knows after that or whether you will be in a position to pick a top qb in any event.
It's still the most important position.
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If the giants agreed w you. Eli would be gone already. He can still play. Your wrong. Many people in the league feel he has good football left. Here's the point. If you go qb at #2. Are you prepared for him to sit for 2 years. If you are great but if your not just consider what I said. What if your wrong and the giants do rebound next year? Eli won't be cut. Keep all this in mind. Weather u like it or not
Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 seasons. Tom Brady sat the first year and only played the second due to Bledsoe's injury.
So, yes, I have no problem with taking a qb #2 and sitting him for two years while Eli plays out the string. If Eli gets hurt or goes off the cliff, you've got someone who can step in. If you don't do it, you pray you're right that Eli has three or 4 years left in him because next year is a weak qb class and who knows after that or whether you will be in a position to pick a top qb in any event.
It's still the most important position.
Tom Brady was a 6th rounder with no expectations
Breeze_94 : 2/19/2018 11:55 am : link : reply
that the pick will not be a QB.
Let's say Darnold goes to CLE at #1 and is off the board...
Rosen- concussions, personality issues. Might be off the Giants draft board due to his issues. Nice pure pocket passer but he is the least mobile of the first round QB's. The best thing Rosen has going for him is that he is pro-ready and taylor made for the NFL, he can step in right away and be solid as a rookie. But the Giants don't need a guy who can play right now at the QB position.
Mayfield- 6'0, may rub some people as cocky/arrogant. Alcohol related arrest. Former walk-on. Big 12 spread offense QB. Will his play style adapt to the NFL? Even if you like him, is he worth the #2 overall pick?
Allen- he is clean off the field, has all of the traits you are looking for. Incredible arm, good athleticism, great size. But, he is not accurate, has not been productive, and played against weak competition. Against top competition, he struggled. Although, he was one of the most improved players over the week at the senior bowl so maybe he is coachable. But, perhaps the Giants look at him as too much of a gamble to take at #2?
Basically, I feel like the QB decision will come down to Allen or Rosen, and I'm not confident the Giants will take either of those 2.
If Barkley is gone then look to move down a few spots and still come away with a blue chip talent . Worst case scenario would be a deal with Buffalo but we could get
multiple picks and fill a lot of spots .
By then, QBs will be getting $30M+/year. Do you tag Eli for $30M? Do you re-sign him to a four year deal? Do you say, okay now it's time to see what Davis Webb can do in the last year of his four year rookie contract? It'll be interesting to see what kind of contract Drew Brees signs with the Saints. Brees just turned 39, which is the age Eli will be when his current contract expires.
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With taking both of Buffalo's #1s, their 2019 and 2020 #1s, and this year's #2 for our #1 in order for them to draft a dude with a concussion history that isn't terribly well liked by his teammates.
Keep pushing the false narrative that Rosen is disliked by his teammates.
Getting 4 1s from Buffalo seems really high (would be nice). They have Indy and Denver to go after as well in the top 5.
p.s.--I do have a history of sleepwalking, so keep that in mind for future occurrences.
And i dont agree with you on the Brees situation. It is not like ours at all unless of course you missed watching him play QB in the second half of the Minnesota playoff game. He has plenty in the tank. Go watch the key 4th down throw to the sideline for instance. New Orleans with him still playing at a high level and several great drafts in a row should be a favorite next year.