I don’t care about QB’s when a player like Barkley is available. We can get a QB later. We have a QB and we drafted another last year. You don’t pass up on special players like Barkley to take a chance on an overrated QB class.
But glosses over the major issue with Barkley. He is a tip toe behind the line running back. I never liked those type of guys. It can work...see LeVeon Bell, but I prefer the straight ahead guy.
But I do fear if the Giants pick him, with Eli near the end of his Giants tenure, the team could become like the old Lions with Barry Sanders. Those old Lions teams could certainly run the ball, but they didn't have a QB that could carry them to the promise land. Eli probably has one or two years left with the team, and Davis Webb is a big unknown. I would rather have a franchise QB than a franchise RB. The Giants have already shown twice they can win a SB without a hall of fame RB (although Jacobs and Bradshaw were very good)
I don’t care about QB’s when a player like Barkley is available. We can get a QB later. We have a QB and we drafted another last year. You don’t pass up on special players like Barkley to take a chance on an overrated QB class.
We can also get a RB later. What an odd post.
The QB class isn’t overrated. IMO there’s so many good proscpects that you are hearing negatives in order to separate the top 4 or 5 guys.
you cannot win in this league without a top QB. I dont want to hear about Trend Dilfer. He had a defense that won the SB for them.
We are going to need a QB very soon and we most likely will not be picking this close to the top again (we hope). When you look around the league, teams can find a RB and can get by with guys and win with them. Plus, this has become a running back by committee league.
We should take a QB first. If we dont take a QB then fine. If we chose an OL or a defensive player at the #2 spot then I would have a problem with that.
If you have a competent OC, and an o-line who can at least identify and obstruct their opponent for more than a fraction of a second, then
the combination of SB, OBJ, EE, and Manning on the field together should be a nightmare scenario for the opposition. The Giants should average at least one game turning TD per game.
Take them away and you still have Ellison and Shepard to keep the chains moving.
with the best of the QB class, I can see them taking Barkley. Not a guard, no matter how wonderful he may be.
However, as the film's host stated, the Giants will need to have at least an average Oline for Barkley to be successful. Else, the same thing that happened to David Wilson will happen to Barkley. Caught in the back field again and again.
I don’t care about QB’s when a player like Barkley is available. We can get a QB later. We have a QB and we drafted another last year. You don’t pass up on special players like Barkley to take a chance on an overrated QB class.
We can also get a RB later. What an odd post.
The QB class isn’t overrated. IMO there’s so many good proscpects that you are hearing negatives in order to separate the top 4 or 5 guys.
The only thing odd would be passing up a special player like Barkley just to get a plug-in type of RB later in the draft. You don't do that. Thats not how you build winning teams. You take BPA and it is clearly Barkley.
RE: As much as I like the idea of taking Barkley.. Â
you cannot win in this league without a top QB. I dont want to hear about Trend Dilfer. He had a defense that won the SB for them.
We are going to need a QB very soon and we most likely will not be picking this close to the top again (we hope). When you look around the league, teams can find a RB and can get by with guys and win with them. Plus, this has become a running back by committee league.
We should take a QB first. If we dont take a QB then fine. If we chose an OL or a defensive player at the #2 spot then I would have a problem with that.
We have a QB. We have one that has won and, according the GM, has not shown that he has declined considerably. He's got 2 years left on his contract. We can take a QB later as in not this year and try to win with the combo of Eli, Barkley, OBJ, Sheppard, Engram. Add to that a defense that is 1 year removed from being very good.
I'm sorry the whole point is to win is it not? This franchise has been hurt by having empty drafts....drafts where the players don't stay on the roster. We don't need another one where the QB will sit 1 maybe 2 years. Draft the home run special player NOW.
Factor a healthy Manning already here, and the fact that QBs do not have to be taken top 2 (see Brady, Brees, Wilson, Cousins) and your logic is flawed.
Any of the 5 QBs bandied about for our pick are just as much busts waiting to happen as they are francise QBs.
Barkley could very well end up being the best player in the draft and all the QBs could be average at best, never leading their teams to a title.
Conversely, you could have Josh Allen become the next John Elway and win multiple championships, and Barkley still being great but obviously not great enough to pass on the next Elway.
The only scenario in which Barkley fails is catastrophic injury. But, like the video says, he's a slam-dunk on a 4-foot rim, you can't miss.
The only way you don't take him is if you believe that a QB that is available at your pick is a franchise QB capable of winning an MVP and winning a Super Bowl. If you think you have that guy available at your pick, take him over Barkley.
If you don't believe in that QB, you take Barkley. The only wrong answer is taking another player other than a QB or Barkley, or missing on the QB you take.
If you take a QB and he busts, not only do you have a high pick QB bust on your hands, which sucks, but you also have to watch Barkley absolutely tear up the NFL on another team, which sucks even more.
There is no, "you have to take Barkley," or "you have to take a QB." You can do either and it can work. There will be other QBs, and there will be other RBs. But if you pass over Barkley, the QB you take must be a franchise QB. Because Barkley is absolutely a HOF-level talent.
Banking on Eli at this stage of his career would be Â
foolish. They need to strongly consider one of the top 2 guys otherwise we’ll be back in the Kent Graham, Danny Kannel, Dave Brown era of Giant Football in 2019! Drafting a RB at #2 would be stupid regardless of talent. Get a good Oline together and we’ll have a good running game. Hell, Darkwa had 751 yards last year behind that mess of an Oline! This team isn’t one player away from a Super Bowl either. I just think it would be an extremely dumb move to draft a RB at #2.
RE: Banking on Eli at this stage of his career would be Â
foolish. They need to strongly consider one of the top 2 guys otherwise we’ll be back in the Kent Graham, Danny Kannel, Dave Brown era of Giant Football in 2019! Drafting a RB at #2 would be stupid regardless of talent. Get a good Oline together and we’ll have a good running game. Hell, Darkwa had 751 yards last year behind that mess of an Oline! This team isn’t one player away from a Super Bowl either. I just think it would be an extremely dumb move to draft a RB at #2.
This is the silliest thing I've read. Are you serious? Orleans Darkwa???????!!!!! Give me a break. How did Dallas' RB's do this year when Zeke went down even though they still have the great oline? They did ok but it wasn't Zeke level. We are talking about special players. Zeke made Dak Prescott look like a competent, possibly SB type of QB. How did he look without Zeke? Like what he is...average.
You can win without a Brady for crying out loud the guy who won the SB this year was Nick friggin Foles. 2 years before that it was a much lesser version of Peyton Manning who was basically just handing the ball off. You're telling me Eli can't do what Peyton did? Give me a break. All of those teams had other great components of their team. The Eagles this year just had a very good all around team. The Broncos had a very good defense. You can't tell me that adding Barkley to Eli, OBJ, Sheppard, Engram doesn't make them a top 10 if not top 5 offense.
Of course all of this is predicated on a decent, not great, just decent productive oline which has to be done regardless of the pick.
As far as running from scrimmage, good route runner for screens or longer in the secondary where he can score from any place on the field. Has to be respected by any defense big time. Will free up our very good receiving corps as well. If we go for a franchise QB fine but Barkley looks like franchise RB to me.
Barkley could very well end up being the best player in the draft and all the QBs could be average at best, never leading their teams to a title.
Conversely, you could have Josh Allen become the next John Elway and win multiple championships, and Barkley still being great but obviously not great enough to pass on the next Elway.
The only scenario in which Barkley fails is catastrophic injury. But, like the video says, he's a slam-dunk on a 4-foot rim, you can't miss.
The only way you don't take him is if you believe that a QB that is available at your pick is a franchise QB capable of winning an MVP and winning a Super Bowl. If you think you have that guy available at your pick, take him over Barkley.
If you don't believe in that QB, you take Barkley. The only wrong answer is taking another player other than a QB or Barkley, or missing on the QB you take.
If you take a QB and he busts, not only do you have a high pick QB bust on your hands, which sucks, but you also have to watch Barkley absolutely tear up the NFL on another team, which sucks even more.
There is no, "you have to take Barkley," or "you have to take a QB." You can do either and it can work. There will be other QBs, and there will be other RBs. But if you pass over Barkley, the QB you take must be a franchise QB. Because Barkley is absolutely a HOF-level talent.
This is why if I'm DG I take Barkley. Why? First he's talked about how he doesn't want to be in QB hell. Second, he's said publicly he still believes Eli has it. Third, he's talked about how missing on a pick this high sets your franchise back 5 years. Fourth, he has said his philosophy is running the ball and being good within the trenches.
All of that taken together are you willing to risk your job, reputation, the franchise you work for on a QB that MAY be good one day and who won't start for at least a year? To me if you look at it logically its too risky to take a QB. The right move based on this info is Barkley. He has off the chart skills. He is a great human being off and on the field. The only criticism I've heard of him is he tends to tippy toe sometimes. This guy gives you the best chance out of anyone to be a sure hit.
If you love the QB, you take the QB. Period. End of discussion. Don't talk to me about winning with this guy or that guy or bla bla bla. I don't care. If you love the QB, YOU TAKE THE QB.
Why? Because good or great QBs help you win. OF course you CAN win with an average QB. You can always win with an average LT. Or an average WR. Or an average RB.
Try and keep up, I know this is tough, but wrap your head around this....it's easier to win when you have a GREAT QB.
Thanks.
RE: RE: As much as I like the idea of taking Barkley.. Â
you cannot win in this league without a top QB. I dont want to hear about Trend Dilfer. He had a defense that won the SB for them.
We are going to need a QB very soon and we most likely will not be picking this close to the top again (we hope). When you look around the league, teams can find a RB and can get by with guys and win with them. Plus, this has become a running back by committee league.
We should take a QB first. If we dont take a QB then fine. If we chose an OL or a defensive player at the #2 spot then I would have a problem with that.
We have a QB. We have one that has won and, according the GM, has not shown that he has declined considerably. He's got 2 years left on his contract. We can take a QB later as in not this year and try to win with the combo of Eli, Barkley, OBJ, Sheppard, Engram. Add to that a defense that is 1 year removed from being very good.
I'm sorry the whole point is to win is it not? This franchise has been hurt by having empty drafts....drafts where the players don't stay on the roster. We don't need another one where the QB will sit 1 maybe 2 years. Draft the home run special player NOW.
foolish. They need to strongly consider one of the top 2 guys otherwise we’ll be back in the Kent Graham, Danny Kannel, Dave Brown era of Giant Football in 2019! Drafting a RB at #2 would be stupid regardless of talent. Get a good Oline together and we’ll have a good running game. Hell, Darkwa had 751 yards last year behind that mess of an Oline! This team isn’t one player away from a Super Bowl either. I just think it would be an extremely dumb move to draft a RB at #2.
This is the silliest thing I've read. Are you serious? Orleans Darkwa???????!!!!! Give me a break. How did Dallas' RB's do this year when Zeke went down even though they still have the great oline? They did ok but it wasn't Zeke level. We are talking about special players. Zeke made Dak Prescott look like a competent, possibly SB type of QB. How did he look without Zeke? Like what he is...average.
You can win without a Brady for crying out loud the guy who won the SB this year was Nick friggin Foles. 2 years before that it was a much lesser version of Peyton Manning who was basically just handing the ball off. You're telling me Eli can't do what Peyton did? Give me a break. All of those teams had other great components of their team. The Eagles this year just had a very good all around team. The Broncos had a very good defense. You can't tell me that adding Barkley to Eli, OBJ, Sheppard, Engram doesn't make them a top 10 if not top 5 offense.
Of course all of this is predicated on a decent, not great, just decent productive oline which has to be done regardless of the pick.
You’re kidding me right?! Silly? And so you would rather draft a RB and go into next year with who knows at QB?! You’re using Nick Foles as an excuse not to draft a QB, but a RB? Talk about silly! Do you really think QB is less important then a RB in the grand scheme of things? Actually, the Dallas Running game prior to adding Elliot was not bad either...poor choice,they had a 1,000 rusher behind a good Oline. Average doesn’t cut it. You think drafting a good RB and putting him behind a porous Oline will help your team? Talk about ridiculous comment!
On the other hand, I don’t think a Matt Ryan or M Stafford type QB is unreasonable a projection for top QBs (Rosen Darnold) in this draft either, especially given the coaching and ability to learn under Eli. Barring getting too cute, they’ll get a franchise building player here.
Eli hasn't won a fucking thing since 2011. That's a long time. Again, simple. He might still have something left, but see point 1, he's old. Even the most ardent of his supporters would agree that projecting anything more than 2-3 more good years from Eli is a stretch.
So, we've concluded that Eli is old. We've concluded that even with all the crap around him, Eli hasn't exactly elevated this team to anything special lately.
Lastly, if you LOVE the QB in this draft...you know the rest.
Simple. It only gets complicated if you don't love the QB or you out think things and even then it's a BPA situation at 2. If you don't love the QB but love Barkley? Duh. Guess who the Giants should draft..
If there weren't any intriguing QBs in this draft the Giants wouldn't have to do anything. And if the Giants don't think these QBs are worth much, they won't pick one at #2.
I think the Giants will take a QB but no one knows anything right now.
On the other hand, I don’t think a Matt Ryan or M Stafford type QB is unreasonable a projection for top QBs (Rosen Darnold) in this draft either, especially given the coaching and ability to learn under Eli. Barring getting too cute, they’ll get a franchise building player here.
Getting to cute would be trading down into the 20's with Buffalo IMO. There is like 6 really good prospects in this draft excluding the QB's (Barkley, Nelson, Chubb, Fitzpatrick, Edmunds, Roquan) the rest of them have questions marks. If you trade into the 20's, you get more picks, but you are no longer dealing with a "sure thing" prospect so there is a higher bust potential.
I say the Giants stick at 2 and grab a franchise changing player
Thats not the way it works. QBs move up teams draft boards Â
because they need one, not because they think they are BAP. They cannot pass up an opportunity to land a franchise-changing asset at the most important position on the team.
This is a fairly easy decision if you look at the facts:
- newly inserted GM and Coach
- aging immobile QB who they have no ties with
- good QB draft
- chance to pick no worse than the #2 QB on your board
I don’t care about QB’s when a player like Barkley is available. We can get a QB later. We have a QB and we drafted another last year. You don’t pass up on special players like Barkley to take a chance on an overrated QB class.
We can also get a RB later. What an odd post.
The QB class isn’t overrated. IMO there’s so many good proscpects that you are hearing negatives in order to separate the top 4 or 5 guys.
The only thing odd would be passing up a special player like Barkley just to get a plug-in type of RB later in the draft. You don't do that. Thats not how you build winning teams. You take BPA and it is clearly Barkley.
No it CLEARLY isn’t. You have your preference and that’s fine, but you arent making any sense on this thread. The draft is deep at RB, the position with the shortest shelf life in the NFL. There’s plenty of ways to build a team - drafting a RB at 2 overall generally isn’t the best way to go about doing that and I’m certainly not passing up on our QB of the future to take that risk.
RE: As much as I like the idea of taking Barkley.. Â
you cannot win in this league without a top QB. I dont want to hear about Trend Dilfer. He had a defense that won the SB for them.
That is just false.
Mark Rypien
Hoss
Brad Johnson
Joe Flacco
Each one of these guys had a defense that was one of the main reasons they won.
Some could even throw Simms in there in 86. He had a fantastic playoff run and great last 3 games. His season before that was nothing more than mediocre. The defence kept them in most of the games He was being boo'd on a weekly basis until Parcells tapped into that competitive edge that Simms had in week 12 that gave him that boost and confidence to play like the champion he was.
Not every team is going to have a Brady, Rodgers, The Manning Brothers, or a Brees.
I think Barkley can immediately make any team that much better. Cannot say that about many.
The only QB that scares me is Rosen. I have heard all the health pro and against arguments. The negatives just out weight the positives for me personally. Taking a guy with a history and is one good hit away from becoming a noodle is just a huge flag for me. Yes it could be the same for anyone. However any concussion history makes that much worse.
I don’t care about QB’s when a player like Barkley is available. We can get a QB later. We have a QB and we drafted another last year. You don’t pass up on special players like Barkley to take a chance on an overrated QB class.
We can also get a RB later. What an odd post.
The QB class isn’t overrated. IMO there’s so many good proscpects that you are hearing negatives in order to separate the top 4 or 5 guys.
The only thing odd would be passing up a special player like Barkley just to get a plug-in type of RB later in the draft. You don't do that. Thats not how you build winning teams. You take BPA and it is clearly Barkley.
No it CLEARLY isn’t. You have your preference and that’s fine, but you arent making any sense on this thread. The draft is deep at RB, the position with the shortest shelf life in the NFL. There’s plenty of ways to build a team - drafting a RB at 2 overall generally isn’t the best way to go about doing that and I’m certainly not passing up on our QB of the future to take that risk.
What you're not understanding is that a lot of it is a crap shoot. No one can tell me tell me that ANY of these QB's are sure hits and you can't tell me that the HB's that can be taken later are going to be any better than Orleans Darkwa. But based on chances of success it is CLEAR that Barkley has the best chance of being a special player. None of the other guys can say that.
We are going to learn so much about this new Regime Â
and go after a QB later at #4. Unless they see one of these guys as a can't miss franchise guy and are afraid we take him at #2 or trade the pick to someone else who surely will.
and go after a QB later at #4. Unless they see one of these guys as a can't miss franchise guy and are afraid we take him at #2 or trade the pick to someone else who surely will.
I can’t see the Browns passing again on a QB, especially after last year. How many years are they going to try the plug and play at the most important position. They take the guy the like at #1
I'd be shocked if the Browns take a RB #1 overall Â
and I agree with the commentator of the footage. Cleveland does not have a QB, not for a long time, and they almost have no choice. It doesn’t look like they are making a run for Cousins. They can’t mess this up and take Barkley at 1 and not have their best chance at their franchise QB at #4. The difference between Cleveland and New York is that Cleveland does not have a quarterback and New York does. You can say all you want that Eli is old; however, remember the pitiful lines he had to play behind since 2011 and that line in 2011 was not that great either. Barkley is likely the safest pick in this draft. He will produce the biggest impact for the Giants, if drafted, and make the whole team better with his presence. I am in the camp of getting Darnold, but I think it’s not going to happen. Darnold will go to Cleveland and the Giants will have a choice between Rosen, Mayfield, and Allen, which in my opinion, have more question marks than Darnold. If the Giants think otherwise, I cannot complain. DG has a very good track record with evaluating talent. The Giants can’t afford to pass up on taking a player like Barkley just to fill a major position at QB with lesser impact and talent, unless they think the QB is a franchise.
is a great prospect, but he has turned into a BBI legend without ever playing an NFL snap.
I've watched this build and build over the last month, and it's reached ridiculous heights of stupidity if now you're calling this QB class "overrated" based on...well nothing really, no evidence, just your raging boner for Barkley.
but we are picking #2 overall and there's a very high likelihood that DG will think one of these QB's can be our future. You don't pass that up for a running back, any running back. Their shelf life is too small and coming back from any big injury at that position is incredibly difficult. Just a ton of risk when you will also need a QB as early as 2019, possibly sooner.
All the "don't take a QB just to take one" talk should be reserved for drafts with terrible QB prospects like in 2013.
is a great prospect, but he has turned into a BBI legend without ever playing an NFL snap.
I've watched this build and build over the last month, and it's reached ridiculous heights of stupidity if now you're calling this QB class "overrated" based on...well nothing really, no evidence, just your raging boner for Barkley.
is a great prospect, but he has turned into a BBI legend without ever playing an NFL snap.
I've watched this build and build over the last month, and it's reached ridiculous heights of stupidity if now you're calling this QB class "overrated" based on...well nothing really, no evidence, just your raging boner for Barkley.
are cant miss types they ALL have questions and issues you can make a case for taking or not taking any of them based on scheme,injury,physical tools or maturity/red flags
they already have a red shirted webb waiting in the wings and eli can play well enough to win the trophy again if they surround him with a better OL and weapons/defence sure if they feel any of those guys are franchise QB's i have no problem with them doing that but many of us are questioning if ANY of those guys are that guy or not
they already have OBJ,engram and shepard you add barkley to that and teams will have to decide if they flood the box and stop barkley or play heavy coverage and stop the pass you can further muddy the waters using heavy play action to keep the defence off balance.
you do that a QB like wilson or prescott makes you a contender ,guys who dont give the ball away especially if the defence doesnt keep shipping easy scores as they have for several years now you can do that with webb or a later round QB or free agent like both the eagles and vikings did with foles and keenum this season you dont necessarily need a "franchise" QB if you have the supporting cast in place
barkley/OBJ is far better than zeke/bryant
the new DC has some pieces to build around especially if they can turn apple around and add another CB and can finally scheme to stop the TE shredding them that spags has had such issues with that means adding another passrusher and finally finding the QB of the defence they havent had since pierce to call the shots goodson can be that guy if he stays healthy ,kennard has some flashes maybe a new scheme makes him better too add some new talent at LB and/or another passrusher the defence can rebound quicker than many think too or they could need a full on rebuild could go either way
gettleman sounds like he feels the giants can rebound fast with a few tweaks/upgrades rather than the full on rebuild
if you feel they need a full rebuild then you draft a QB or trade back and stockpile resources
you could fix the OL in free agency if you add a joe thomas or jason peters who are likely released shortly and add a guard like norwell,shift flowers over to the right side be it guard or tackle,bring back one of richburg or jones at centre,and one of wheeler or bisnowaty fills the other spot on the right side with flowers and you are then drafting future depth at OL not needing instant starters you reach for year 1 as resse did with flowers
the new coach also uses alot of 2 TE sets that will allow them to make better use of ellison and adams than mac has done and give them some help with the OL further lessening the need there slightly too and makes engram the defacto number 2 receiver in his new offence you can then cut marshall and veeren and pughs salary and save some cap space as well to pay for the OL free agents plus a paycut for eli or a few restructures that make players incentives for playing time and results they have more cap space than is instantly obvious
there is no black and white right and wrong answers here. there are multiple ways they can approach it but they need to have a clear plan and follow it properly.if they decide a full rebuild is in order and one of the QB's is the answer you can do that,if you think you can retool and add some smart FA players at the right spots you can go that way too.
only the coaches know what they have in webb at this point we can only guess until we see him play in a real game with the starters they may not need a QB at all with that number 2 as it stands or he could be another nassib that sticks on the roster for the entirety of his rookie contract and never plays a serious down so lets not talk absolutes of right and wrong as we just dont know how much of last year was mac losing the locker room and how much of it was talent
and for the record that reference to LT for tomlinson always grated with me the only LT will only ever be Lawrence Taylor
RE: So, how would you prefer the Giants Draft sequence to go... Â
Cleveland takes Barkley at #1 and we have the top QB pick to barter. Think DG/ Abrams will be able to handle this scenario no matter how it goes. Multiple picks etc. or trade down to a team wants one of these QBs. or take one our selves.
Barkley at #1. Those that mock this are crazy. Because the only thing better than getting your franchise QB is getting your franchise QB AND a talent like Saquon Barkley to pair him with.
If the Browns are successful in doing this, and they get a great QB, they will fix that team for a long time and be contenders, as soon as 2019, potentially as soon as this season if they use their other picks very well and the defense builds on last season.
The likelihood is that the Colts will sit at #3 and take a non-QB, probably Chubb, possibly Nelson. They could trade down to a QB-needy team, or the Browns could just trade up to them, which they have the ammo to do, one spot to avoid another team jumping them.
If the Browns take Barkley, and do not have Darnold as their #1 QB on their board, they will likely get the QB they covet the most because the Giants would almost assuredly take Darnold in that scenario. Or perhaps they have two QBs graded the same or very, very close together. It could make sense in that situation to know that you will get your guy AND Barkley. If however, the Browns have a true conviction for only 1 QB to lead their team and be their franchise QB, then you take that guy at #1. This is going to be a fun draft for Cleveland Browns' fans.
is if they are comfortable going to plan C or D at the most post important position in sports. Giants are taking a QB and it’s quite possible someone trades up woth the Colts at 3 to take a QB.
It’s an extremely risky way to go about drafting, and I find it very hard to believe they would have 3 or 4 QBs all graded almost evenly despite all of them offering different qualities and styles.
In any case, I hope it happens. It would allow us to draft our #1 player. Also, I don’t think the Colts take Barkley either so Cleveland could still get him at 4.
is if they are comfortable going to plan C or D at the most post important position in sports. Giants are taking a QB and it’s quite possible someone trades up woth the Colts at 3 to take a QB.
It’s an extremely risky way to go about drafting, and I find it very hard to believe they would have 3 or 4 QBs all graded almost evenly despite all of them offering different qualities and styles.
In any case, I hope it happens. It would allow us to draft our #1 player. Also, I don’t think the Colts take Barkley either so Cleveland could still get him at 4.
Browns aren't making the mistaking of selecting the top QB with their first overall pick after passing the last two years, it's just not going to happen again. Especially with a new GM this draft.
are cant miss types they ALL have questions and issues you can make a case for taking or not taking any of them based on scheme,injury,physical tools or maturity/red flags
they already have a red shirted webb waiting in the wings and eli can play well enough to win the trophy again if they surround him with a better OL and weapons/defence sure if they feel any of those guys are franchise QB's i have no problem with them doing that but many of us are questioning if ANY of those guys are that guy or not
they already have OBJ,engram and shepard you add barkley to that and teams will have to decide if they flood the box and stop barkley or play heavy coverage and stop the pass you can further muddy the waters using heavy play action to keep the defence off balance.
you do that a QB like wilson or prescott makes you a contender ,guys who dont give the ball away especially if the defence doesnt keep shipping easy scores as they have for several years now you can do that with webb or a later round QB or free agent like both the eagles and vikings did with foles and keenum this season you dont necessarily need a "franchise" QB if you have the supporting cast in place
barkley/OBJ is far better than zeke/bryant
the new DC has some pieces to build around especially if they can turn apple around and add another CB and can finally scheme to stop the TE shredding them that spags has had such issues with that means adding another passrusher and finally finding the QB of the defence they havent had since pierce to call the shots goodson can be that guy if he stays healthy ,kennard has some flashes maybe a new scheme makes him better too add some new talent at LB and/or another passrusher the defence can rebound quicker than many think too or they could need a full on rebuild could go either way
gettleman sounds like he feels the giants can rebound fast with a few tweaks/upgrades rather than the full on rebuild
if you feel they need a full rebuild then you draft a QB or trade back and stockpile resources
you could fix the OL in free agency if you add a joe thomas or jason peters who are likely released shortly and add a guard like norwell,shift flowers over to the right side be it guard or tackle,bring back one of richburg or jones at centre,and one of wheeler or bisnowaty fills the other spot on the right side with flowers and you are then drafting future depth at OL not needing instant starters you reach for year 1 as resse did with flowers
the new coach also uses alot of 2 TE sets that will allow them to make better use of ellison and adams than mac has done and give them some help with the OL further lessening the need there slightly too and makes engram the defacto number 2 receiver in his new offence you can then cut marshall and veeren and pughs salary and save some cap space as well to pay for the OL free agents plus a paycut for eli or a few restructures that make players incentives for playing time and results they have more cap space than is instantly obvious
there is no black and white right and wrong answers here. there are multiple ways they can approach it but they need to have a clear plan and follow it properly.if they decide a full rebuild is in order and one of the QB's is the answer you can do that,if you think you can retool and add some smart FA players at the right spots you can go that way too.
only the coaches know what they have in webb at this point we can only guess until we see him play in a real game with the starters they may not need a QB at all with that number 2 as it stands or he could be another nassib that sticks on the roster for the entirety of his rookie contract and never plays a serious down so lets not talk absolutes of right and wrong as we just dont know how much of last year was mac losing the locker room and how much of it was talent
and for the record that reference to LT for tomlinson always grated with me the only LT will only ever be Lawrence Taylor
is if they are comfortable going to plan C or D at the most post important position in sports. Giants are taking a QB and it’s quite possible someone trades up woth the Colts at 3 to take a QB.
It’s an extremely risky way to go about drafting, and I find it very hard to believe they would have 3 or 4 QBs all graded almost evenly despite all of them offering different qualities and styles.
In any case, I hope it happens. It would allow us to draft our #1 player. Also, I don’t think the Colts take Barkley either so Cleveland could still get him at 4.
Browns aren't making the mistaking of selecting the top QB with their first overall pick after passing the last two years, it's just not going to happen again. Especially with a new GM this draft.
That is my thought as well. They also have a solid running game and could just as easily take Chubb at 4 even if Barkley is there. They let up over 400 points last year, and pairing Chubb with Garrett could be huge. They can also take Fitzpatrick.
The Browns were 6th in rushing yards per attempt last year - they are just behind a ton because their QB's stink and their defense is always on the field. Tons of ways to look at it but I don't think its any lock they would even take Barkley at 4.
RE: How about those Indiana and Rutgers highlights? Â
Unfortunately I think the Browns are gonna take him at
#1 , having the 4th pick they will get a top QB no one really knows if this class is like the Manning draft or
maybe 3 average starters and a boom or bust pick .
Having two game breakers like OBJ and Barkley defenses will
not be able to load the line especially with Engram who
had a heck of a rookie season and will get better .
I have no problem bringing back Marshal not ready to write
him off . Fix the O-line add some vet LB's and possibly use
the #2 pick on a LB .
Rosen I don't like his frame some have said he has a bit
of an attitude great arm not all that accurate .
Darnold another USC QB this guy had 20 career fumbles is
that true ?
Cleveland needs a QB it's anybodys guess who they select and when . I will be bummed if they take Barkley and if so
does that foce us to take a QB or do we trade down .
If for whatever reason the Giants are not in love with whomever is left . is anyone outside of Barkley or the
QB's worth taking ? I wouldn't doubt they trade down .
is on par with Tomlinson, or a comparable skill set to Elliott, you have to take him at #2. There will be a quarterback available at the top of the second round. Take him there and you have 2 very promising young quarterbacks in your organization.
Build the O-line from FA (hoping for 2 outside of Fluker).
Draft accordingly the rest of the way. LB, Edge/DE, OL, whoever is the best player of that lot as the draft winds down through.
Maybe try to see about a FA WR, as well.
I'd be really happy with a draft/off-season that looked something like that.
Think Barkley has OJ Simpson type speed and moves Â
and he can catch the FB which OJ could not. If OJ could have done that he would have the best but still think he was anyway. Definitely a game changer in our powerful WR offense. Get him and and OL, we are playoffs bound next year. IMO.
Barkley is going to get a lot of touches because of his route running and pass catching ability. Look what Kamara, Gurley and Bell do for their teams. If Gettleman signs Norwell and finds us the next Norwell. Engram, OBJ, Barkley and Shepard could become a thing of beauty.
Well, LT was a LB, so I'm not sure it's apples to apples, but I think he was a better LB than Peterson was a RB.
Calling Tomlinson "LT" is blasphemy. :)
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better than AP???
Well, LT was a LB, so I'm not sure it's apples to apples, but I think he was a better LB than Peterson was a RB.
Calling Tomlinson "LT" is blasphemy. :)
+1,000,000,000,000,000.
I would never question anyone's Giants allegiance, but seriously. There's only one LT!
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better than AP???
Well, LT was a LB, so I'm not sure it's apples to apples, but I think he was a better LB than Peterson was a RB.
Calling Tomlinson "LT" is blasphemy. :)
100% agreed!
We can also get a RB later. What an odd post.
The QB class isn’t overrated. IMO there’s so many good proscpects that you are hearing negatives in order to separate the top 4 or 5 guys.
We are going to need a QB very soon and we most likely will not be picking this close to the top again (we hope). When you look around the league, teams can find a RB and can get by with guys and win with them. Plus, this has become a running back by committee league.
We should take a QB first. If we dont take a QB then fine. If we chose an OL or a defensive player at the #2 spot then I would have a problem with that.
Who was the last "special" guard in college to be drafted?
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there are only 2 special players in this draft, Barkley & Nelson. If we have an opportunity to select one it would be stupid not to.
Who was the last "special" guard in college to be drafted?
Zack Martin
If you have a competent OC, and an o-line who can at least identify and obstruct their opponent for more than a fraction of a second, then
the combination of SB, OBJ, EE, and Manning on the field together should be a nightmare scenario for the opposition. The Giants should average at least one game turning TD per game.
Take them away and you still have Ellison and Shepard to keep the chains moving.
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In comment 13836009 Miamijints said:
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there are only 2 special players in this draft, Barkley & Nelson. If we have an opportunity to select one it would be stupid not to.
Who was the last "special" guard in college to be drafted?
Zack Martin
Redskins took Scherff at pick#5 in 2015.
However, as the film's host stated, the Giants will need to have at least an average Oline for Barkley to be successful. Else, the same thing that happened to David Wilson will happen to Barkley. Caught in the back field again and again.
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I don’t care about QB’s when a player like Barkley is available. We can get a QB later. We have a QB and we drafted another last year. You don’t pass up on special players like Barkley to take a chance on an overrated QB class.
We can also get a RB later. What an odd post.
The QB class isn’t overrated. IMO there’s so many good proscpects that you are hearing negatives in order to separate the top 4 or 5 guys.
The only thing odd would be passing up a special player like Barkley just to get a plug-in type of RB later in the draft. You don't do that. Thats not how you build winning teams. You take BPA and it is clearly Barkley.
We are going to need a QB very soon and we most likely will not be picking this close to the top again (we hope). When you look around the league, teams can find a RB and can get by with guys and win with them. Plus, this has become a running back by committee league.
We should take a QB first. If we dont take a QB then fine. If we chose an OL or a defensive player at the #2 spot then I would have a problem with that.
We have a QB. We have one that has won and, according the GM, has not shown that he has declined considerably. He's got 2 years left on his contract. We can take a QB later as in not this year and try to win with the combo of Eli, Barkley, OBJ, Sheppard, Engram. Add to that a defense that is 1 year removed from being very good.
I'm sorry the whole point is to win is it not? This franchise has been hurt by having empty drafts....drafts where the players don't stay on the roster. We don't need another one where the QB will sit 1 maybe 2 years. Draft the home run special player NOW.
Round 1: Saquon Barkeley
Round 2: Some other non-QB position player
OR
Round 1: Either Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold
Round 2: Ronald Jones; RB; USC
Guys... I'm taking scenario two every single damn time. Not even close.
If they feel that they need to do full on rebuild and that this will take 2-3 off seasons to fix the talent issue, then I want the QB at #2 overall.
Any of the 5 QBs bandied about for our pick are just as much busts waiting to happen as they are francise QBs.
Barkley could very well end up being the best player in the draft and all the QBs could be average at best, never leading their teams to a title.
Conversely, you could have Josh Allen become the next John Elway and win multiple championships, and Barkley still being great but obviously not great enough to pass on the next Elway.
The only scenario in which Barkley fails is catastrophic injury. But, like the video says, he's a slam-dunk on a 4-foot rim, you can't miss.
The only way you don't take him is if you believe that a QB that is available at your pick is a franchise QB capable of winning an MVP and winning a Super Bowl. If you think you have that guy available at your pick, take him over Barkley.
If you don't believe in that QB, you take Barkley. The only wrong answer is taking another player other than a QB or Barkley, or missing on the QB you take.
If you take a QB and he busts, not only do you have a high pick QB bust on your hands, which sucks, but you also have to watch Barkley absolutely tear up the NFL on another team, which sucks even more.
There is no, "you have to take Barkley," or "you have to take a QB." You can do either and it can work. There will be other QBs, and there will be other RBs. But if you pass over Barkley, the QB you take must be a franchise QB. Because Barkley is absolutely a HOF-level talent.
This is the silliest thing I've read. Are you serious? Orleans Darkwa???????!!!!! Give me a break. How did Dallas' RB's do this year when Zeke went down even though they still have the great oline? They did ok but it wasn't Zeke level. We are talking about special players. Zeke made Dak Prescott look like a competent, possibly SB type of QB. How did he look without Zeke? Like what he is...average.
You can win without a Brady for crying out loud the guy who won the SB this year was Nick friggin Foles. 2 years before that it was a much lesser version of Peyton Manning who was basically just handing the ball off. You're telling me Eli can't do what Peyton did? Give me a break. All of those teams had other great components of their team. The Eagles this year just had a very good all around team. The Broncos had a very good defense. You can't tell me that adding Barkley to Eli, OBJ, Sheppard, Engram doesn't make them a top 10 if not top 5 offense.
Of course all of this is predicated on a decent, not great, just decent productive oline which has to be done regardless of the pick.
Barkley could very well end up being the best player in the draft and all the QBs could be average at best, never leading their teams to a title.
Conversely, you could have Josh Allen become the next John Elway and win multiple championships, and Barkley still being great but obviously not great enough to pass on the next Elway.
The only scenario in which Barkley fails is catastrophic injury. But, like the video says, he's a slam-dunk on a 4-foot rim, you can't miss.
The only way you don't take him is if you believe that a QB that is available at your pick is a franchise QB capable of winning an MVP and winning a Super Bowl. If you think you have that guy available at your pick, take him over Barkley.
If you don't believe in that QB, you take Barkley. The only wrong answer is taking another player other than a QB or Barkley, or missing on the QB you take.
If you take a QB and he busts, not only do you have a high pick QB bust on your hands, which sucks, but you also have to watch Barkley absolutely tear up the NFL on another team, which sucks even more.
There is no, "you have to take Barkley," or "you have to take a QB." You can do either and it can work. There will be other QBs, and there will be other RBs. But if you pass over Barkley, the QB you take must be a franchise QB. Because Barkley is absolutely a HOF-level talent.
This is why if I'm DG I take Barkley. Why? First he's talked about how he doesn't want to be in QB hell. Second, he's said publicly he still believes Eli has it. Third, he's talked about how missing on a pick this high sets your franchise back 5 years. Fourth, he has said his philosophy is running the ball and being good within the trenches.
All of that taken together are you willing to risk your job, reputation, the franchise you work for on a QB that MAY be good one day and who won't start for at least a year? To me if you look at it logically its too risky to take a QB. The right move based on this info is Barkley. He has off the chart skills. He is a great human being off and on the field. The only criticism I've heard of him is he tends to tippy toe sometimes. This guy gives you the best chance out of anyone to be a sure hit.
If you love the QB, you take the QB. Period. End of discussion. Don't talk to me about winning with this guy or that guy or bla bla bla. I don't care. If you love the QB, YOU TAKE THE QB.
Why? Because good or great QBs help you win. OF course you CAN win with an average QB. You can always win with an average LT. Or an average WR. Or an average RB.
Try and keep up, I know this is tough, but wrap your head around this....it's easier to win when you have a GREAT QB.
Thanks.
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you cannot win in this league without a top QB. I dont want to hear about Trend Dilfer. He had a defense that won the SB for them.
We are going to need a QB very soon and we most likely will not be picking this close to the top again (we hope). When you look around the league, teams can find a RB and can get by with guys and win with them. Plus, this has become a running back by committee league.
We should take a QB first. If we dont take a QB then fine. If we chose an OL or a defensive player at the #2 spot then I would have a problem with that.
We have a QB. We have one that has won and, according the GM, has not shown that he has declined considerably. He's got 2 years left on his contract. We can take a QB later as in not this year and try to win with the combo of Eli, Barkley, OBJ, Sheppard, Engram. Add to that a defense that is 1 year removed from being very good.
I'm sorry the whole point is to win is it not? This franchise has been hurt by having empty drafts....drafts where the players don't stay on the roster. We don't need another one where the QB will sit 1 maybe 2 years. Draft the home run special player NOW.
Thanks again.
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foolish. They need to strongly consider one of the top 2 guys otherwise we’ll be back in the Kent Graham, Danny Kannel, Dave Brown era of Giant Football in 2019! Drafting a RB at #2 would be stupid regardless of talent. Get a good Oline together and we’ll have a good running game. Hell, Darkwa had 751 yards last year behind that mess of an Oline! This team isn’t one player away from a Super Bowl either. I just think it would be an extremely dumb move to draft a RB at #2.
This is the silliest thing I've read. Are you serious? Orleans Darkwa???????!!!!! Give me a break. How did Dallas' RB's do this year when Zeke went down even though they still have the great oline? They did ok but it wasn't Zeke level. We are talking about special players. Zeke made Dak Prescott look like a competent, possibly SB type of QB. How did he look without Zeke? Like what he is...average.
You can win without a Brady for crying out loud the guy who won the SB this year was Nick friggin Foles. 2 years before that it was a much lesser version of Peyton Manning who was basically just handing the ball off. You're telling me Eli can't do what Peyton did? Give me a break. All of those teams had other great components of their team. The Eagles this year just had a very good all around team. The Broncos had a very good defense. You can't tell me that adding Barkley to Eli, OBJ, Sheppard, Engram doesn't make them a top 10 if not top 5 offense.
Of course all of this is predicated on a decent, not great, just decent productive oline which has to be done regardless of the pick.
You’re kidding me right?! Silly? And so you would rather draft a RB and go into next year with who knows at QB?! You’re using Nick Foles as an excuse not to draft a QB, but a RB? Talk about silly! Do you really think QB is less important then a RB in the grand scheme of things? Actually, the Dallas Running game prior to adding Elliot was not bad either...poor choice,they had a 1,000 rusher behind a good Oline. Average doesn’t cut it. You think drafting a good RB and putting him behind a porous Oline will help your team? Talk about ridiculous comment!
Eli is 37. That's OLD for the NFL. Simple.
Eli hasn't won a fucking thing since 2011. That's a long time. Again, simple. He might still have something left, but see point 1, he's old. Even the most ardent of his supporters would agree that projecting anything more than 2-3 more good years from Eli is a stretch.
So, we've concluded that Eli is old. We've concluded that even with all the crap around him, Eli hasn't exactly elevated this team to anything special lately.
Lastly, if you LOVE the QB in this draft...you know the rest.
Simple. It only gets complicated if you don't love the QB or you out think things and even then it's a BPA situation at 2. If you don't love the QB but love Barkley? Duh. Guess who the Giants should draft..
Not if you don't love the QB.
If there weren't any intriguing QBs in this draft the Giants wouldn't have to do anything. And if the Giants don't think these QBs are worth much, they won't pick one at #2.
I think the Giants will take a QB but no one knows anything right now.
If the Giants are building to win in 2018, he's the obvious pick.
I'm all for it if Cleveland takes the franchise QB I like, Darnold, at #1.
Getting to cute would be trading down into the 20's with Buffalo IMO. There is like 6 really good prospects in this draft excluding the QB's (Barkley, Nelson, Chubb, Fitzpatrick, Edmunds, Roquan) the rest of them have questions marks. If you trade into the 20's, you get more picks, but you are no longer dealing with a "sure thing" prospect so there is a higher bust potential.
I say the Giants stick at 2 and grab a franchise changing player
This is a fairly easy decision if you look at the facts:
- newly inserted GM and Coach
- aging immobile QB who they have no ties with
- good QB draft
- chance to pick no worse than the #2 QB on your board
easy choice...
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In comment 13835985 Zepp said:
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I don’t care about QB’s when a player like Barkley is available. We can get a QB later. We have a QB and we drafted another last year. You don’t pass up on special players like Barkley to take a chance on an overrated QB class.
We can also get a RB later. What an odd post.
The QB class isn’t overrated. IMO there’s so many good proscpects that you are hearing negatives in order to separate the top 4 or 5 guys.
The only thing odd would be passing up a special player like Barkley just to get a plug-in type of RB later in the draft. You don't do that. Thats not how you build winning teams. You take BPA and it is clearly Barkley.
No it CLEARLY isn’t. You have your preference and that’s fine, but you arent making any sense on this thread. The draft is deep at RB, the position with the shortest shelf life in the NFL. There’s plenty of ways to build a team - drafting a RB at 2 overall generally isn’t the best way to go about doing that and I’m certainly not passing up on our QB of the future to take that risk.
That is just false.
Mark Rypien
Hoss
Brad Johnson
Joe Flacco
Each one of these guys had a defense that was one of the main reasons they won.
Some could even throw Simms in there in 86. He had a fantastic playoff run and great last 3 games. His season before that was nothing more than mediocre. The defence kept them in most of the games He was being boo'd on a weekly basis until Parcells tapped into that competitive edge that Simms had in week 12 that gave him that boost and confidence to play like the champion he was.
Not every team is going to have a Brady, Rodgers, The Manning Brothers, or a Brees.
I think Barkley can immediately make any team that much better. Cannot say that about many.
The only QB that scares me is Rosen. I have heard all the health pro and against arguments. The negatives just out weight the positives for me personally. Taking a guy with a history and is one good hit away from becoming a noodle is just a huge flag for me. Yes it could be the same for anyone. However any concussion history makes that much worse.
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In comment 13836001 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13835985 Zepp said:
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I don’t care about QB’s when a player like Barkley is available. We can get a QB later. We have a QB and we drafted another last year. You don’t pass up on special players like Barkley to take a chance on an overrated QB class.
We can also get a RB later. What an odd post.
The QB class isn’t overrated. IMO there’s so many good proscpects that you are hearing negatives in order to separate the top 4 or 5 guys.
The only thing odd would be passing up a special player like Barkley just to get a plug-in type of RB later in the draft. You don't do that. Thats not how you build winning teams. You take BPA and it is clearly Barkley.
No it CLEARLY isn’t. You have your preference and that’s fine, but you arent making any sense on this thread. The draft is deep at RB, the position with the shortest shelf life in the NFL. There’s plenty of ways to build a team - drafting a RB at 2 overall generally isn’t the best way to go about doing that and I’m certainly not passing up on our QB of the future to take that risk.
What you're not understanding is that a lot of it is a crap shoot. No one can tell me tell me that ANY of these QB's are sure hits and you can't tell me that the HB's that can be taken later are going to be any better than Orleans Darkwa. But based on chances of success it is CLEAR that Barkley has the best chance of being a special player. None of the other guys can say that.
Are they in win-now mode or do they draft for the future?
Do they take BPA or do they place a stronger emphasis on positional value?
Win-now/BPA= Barkley, maybe Chubb or Nelson
Future/Positional value= QB
Such a stupid conversation. I’m bowing out of this one.
I think he is that special also
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In comment 13836025 est1986 said:
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In comment 13836009 Miamijints said:
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there are only 2 special players in this draft, Barkley & Nelson. If we have an opportunity to select one it would be stupid not to.
Who was the last "special" guard in college to be drafted?
Zack Martin
Redskins took Scherff at pick#5 in 2015.
He Played Left Tackle in College...
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In comment 13836009 Miamijints said:
Quote:
there are only 2 special players in this draft, Barkley & Nelson. If we have an opportunity to select one it would be stupid not to.
Who was the last "special" guard in college to be drafted?
Zack Martin
He Played Left Tackle in College...
I can’t see the Browns passing again on a QB, especially after last year. How many years are they going to try the plug and play at the most important position. They take the guy the like at #1
Which is exactly why the Browns could do it.
I've watched this build and build over the last month, and it's reached ridiculous heights of stupidity if now you're calling this QB class "overrated" based on...well nothing really, no evidence, just your raging boner for Barkley.
very dynamic player --
All the "don't take a QB just to take one" talk should be reserved for drafts with terrible QB prospects like in 2013.
I've watched this build and build over the last month, and it's reached ridiculous heights of stupidity if now you're calling this QB class "overrated" based on...well nothing really, no evidence, just your raging boner for Barkley.
I've watched this build and build over the last month, and it's reached ridiculous heights of stupidity if now you're calling this QB class "overrated" based on...well nothing really, no evidence, just your raging boner for Barkley.
Talk to Sy. He may disagree with you.
There is no other LT, and to any Giants fan that EVER refers to LADANIAN TOMLINSON as "LT" you should go hide in a hole for a day.
And FWIW, I think Barkley could be better than Tomlinson, but I see him more as a power type runner as opposed to a slasher like Tomlinson was.
they already have a red shirted webb waiting in the wings and eli can play well enough to win the trophy again if they surround him with a better OL and weapons/defence sure if they feel any of those guys are franchise QB's i have no problem with them doing that but many of us are questioning if ANY of those guys are that guy or not
they already have OBJ,engram and shepard you add barkley to that and teams will have to decide if they flood the box and stop barkley or play heavy coverage and stop the pass you can further muddy the waters using heavy play action to keep the defence off balance.
you do that a QB like wilson or prescott makes you a contender ,guys who dont give the ball away especially if the defence doesnt keep shipping easy scores as they have for several years now you can do that with webb or a later round QB or free agent like both the eagles and vikings did with foles and keenum this season you dont necessarily need a "franchise" QB if you have the supporting cast in place
barkley/OBJ is far better than zeke/bryant
the new DC has some pieces to build around especially if they can turn apple around and add another CB and can finally scheme to stop the TE shredding them that spags has had such issues with that means adding another passrusher and finally finding the QB of the defence they havent had since pierce to call the shots goodson can be that guy if he stays healthy ,kennard has some flashes maybe a new scheme makes him better too add some new talent at LB and/or another passrusher the defence can rebound quicker than many think too or they could need a full on rebuild could go either way
gettleman sounds like he feels the giants can rebound fast with a few tweaks/upgrades rather than the full on rebuild
if you feel they need a full rebuild then you draft a QB or trade back and stockpile resources
you could fix the OL in free agency if you add a joe thomas or jason peters who are likely released shortly and add a guard like norwell,shift flowers over to the right side be it guard or tackle,bring back one of richburg or jones at centre,and one of wheeler or bisnowaty fills the other spot on the right side with flowers and you are then drafting future depth at OL not needing instant starters you reach for year 1 as resse did with flowers
the new coach also uses alot of 2 TE sets that will allow them to make better use of ellison and adams than mac has done and give them some help with the OL further lessening the need there slightly too and makes engram the defacto number 2 receiver in his new offence you can then cut marshall and veeren and pughs salary and save some cap space as well to pay for the OL free agents plus a paycut for eli or a few restructures that make players incentives for playing time and results they have more cap space than is instantly obvious
there is no black and white right and wrong answers here. there are multiple ways they can approach it but they need to have a clear plan and follow it properly.if they decide a full rebuild is in order and one of the QB's is the answer you can do that,if you think you can retool and add some smart FA players at the right spots you can go that way too.
only the coaches know what they have in webb at this point we can only guess until we see him play in a real game with the starters they may not need a QB at all with that number 2 as it stands or he could be another nassib that sticks on the roster for the entirety of his rookie contract and never plays a serious down so lets not talk absolutes of right and wrong as we just dont know how much of last year was mac losing the locker room and how much of it was talent
and for the record that reference to LT for tomlinson always grated with me the only LT will only ever be Lawrence Taylor
Round 1: Saquon Barkeley
Round 2: Some other non-QB position player
OR
Round 1: Either Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold
Round 2: Ronald Jones; RB; USC
Guys... I'm taking scenario two every single damn time. Not even close.
If the Browns are successful in doing this, and they get a great QB, they will fix that team for a long time and be contenders, as soon as 2019, potentially as soon as this season if they use their other picks very well and the defense builds on last season.
The likelihood is that the Colts will sit at #3 and take a non-QB, probably Chubb, possibly Nelson. They could trade down to a QB-needy team, or the Browns could just trade up to them, which they have the ammo to do, one spot to avoid another team jumping them.
If the Browns take Barkley, and do not have Darnold as their #1 QB on their board, they will likely get the QB they covet the most because the Giants would almost assuredly take Darnold in that scenario. Or perhaps they have two QBs graded the same or very, very close together. It could make sense in that situation to know that you will get your guy AND Barkley. If however, the Browns have a true conviction for only 1 QB to lead their team and be their franchise QB, then you take that guy at #1. This is going to be a fun draft for Cleveland Browns' fans.
It’s an extremely risky way to go about drafting, and I find it very hard to believe they would have 3 or 4 QBs all graded almost evenly despite all of them offering different qualities and styles.
In any case, I hope it happens. It would allow us to draft our #1 player. Also, I don’t think the Colts take Barkley either so Cleveland could still get him at 4.
It’s an extremely risky way to go about drafting, and I find it very hard to believe they would have 3 or 4 QBs all graded almost evenly despite all of them offering different qualities and styles.
In any case, I hope it happens. It would allow us to draft our #1 player. Also, I don’t think the Colts take Barkley either so Cleveland could still get him at 4.
Browns aren't making the mistaking of selecting the top QB with their first overall pick after passing the last two years, it's just not going to happen again. Especially with a new GM this draft.
they already have a red shirted webb waiting in the wings and eli can play well enough to win the trophy again if they surround him with a better OL and weapons/defence sure if they feel any of those guys are franchise QB's i have no problem with them doing that but many of us are questioning if ANY of those guys are that guy or not
they already have OBJ,engram and shepard you add barkley to that and teams will have to decide if they flood the box and stop barkley or play heavy coverage and stop the pass you can further muddy the waters using heavy play action to keep the defence off balance.
you do that a QB like wilson or prescott makes you a contender ,guys who dont give the ball away especially if the defence doesnt keep shipping easy scores as they have for several years now you can do that with webb or a later round QB or free agent like both the eagles and vikings did with foles and keenum this season you dont necessarily need a "franchise" QB if you have the supporting cast in place
barkley/OBJ is far better than zeke/bryant
the new DC has some pieces to build around especially if they can turn apple around and add another CB and can finally scheme to stop the TE shredding them that spags has had such issues with that means adding another passrusher and finally finding the QB of the defence they havent had since pierce to call the shots goodson can be that guy if he stays healthy ,kennard has some flashes maybe a new scheme makes him better too add some new talent at LB and/or another passrusher the defence can rebound quicker than many think too or they could need a full on rebuild could go either way
gettleman sounds like he feels the giants can rebound fast with a few tweaks/upgrades rather than the full on rebuild
if you feel they need a full rebuild then you draft a QB or trade back and stockpile resources
you could fix the OL in free agency if you add a joe thomas or jason peters who are likely released shortly and add a guard like norwell,shift flowers over to the right side be it guard or tackle,bring back one of richburg or jones at centre,and one of wheeler or bisnowaty fills the other spot on the right side with flowers and you are then drafting future depth at OL not needing instant starters you reach for year 1 as resse did with flowers
the new coach also uses alot of 2 TE sets that will allow them to make better use of ellison and adams than mac has done and give them some help with the OL further lessening the need there slightly too and makes engram the defacto number 2 receiver in his new offence you can then cut marshall and veeren and pughs salary and save some cap space as well to pay for the OL free agents plus a paycut for eli or a few restructures that make players incentives for playing time and results they have more cap space than is instantly obvious
there is no black and white right and wrong answers here. there are multiple ways they can approach it but they need to have a clear plan and follow it properly.if they decide a full rebuild is in order and one of the QB's is the answer you can do that,if you think you can retool and add some smart FA players at the right spots you can go that way too.
only the coaches know what they have in webb at this point we can only guess until we see him play in a real game with the starters they may not need a QB at all with that number 2 as it stands or he could be another nassib that sticks on the roster for the entirety of his rookie contract and never plays a serious down so lets not talk absolutes of right and wrong as we just dont know how much of last year was mac losing the locker room and how much of it was talent
and for the record that reference to LT for tomlinson always grated with me the only LT will only ever be Lawrence Taylor
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is if they are comfortable going to plan C or D at the most post important position in sports. Giants are taking a QB and it’s quite possible someone trades up woth the Colts at 3 to take a QB.
It’s an extremely risky way to go about drafting, and I find it very hard to believe they would have 3 or 4 QBs all graded almost evenly despite all of them offering different qualities and styles.
In any case, I hope it happens. It would allow us to draft our #1 player. Also, I don’t think the Colts take Barkley either so Cleveland could still get him at 4.
Browns aren't making the mistaking of selecting the top QB with their first overall pick after passing the last two years, it's just not going to happen again. Especially with a new GM this draft.
That is my thought as well. They also have a solid running game and could just as easily take Chubb at 4 even if Barkley is there. They let up over 400 points last year, and pairing Chubb with Garrett could be huge. They can also take Fitzpatrick.
The Browns were 6th in rushing yards per attempt last year - they are just behind a ton because their QB's stink and their defense is always on the field. Tons of ways to look at it but I don't think its any lock they would even take Barkley at 4.
You asked for this before. I posted before. But here you go again.
Barkley vs. Indiana - ( New Window )
yards created - ( New Window )
#1 , having the 4th pick they will get a top QB no one really knows if this class is like the Manning draft or
maybe 3 average starters and a boom or bust pick .
Having two game breakers like OBJ and Barkley defenses will
not be able to load the line especially with Engram who
had a heck of a rookie season and will get better .
I have no problem bringing back Marshal not ready to write
him off . Fix the O-line add some vet LB's and possibly use
the #2 pick on a LB .
of an attitude great arm not all that accurate .
Darnold another USC QB this guy had 20 career fumbles is
that true ?
Cleveland needs a QB it's anybodys guess who they select and when . I will be bummed if they take Barkley and if so
does that foce us to take a QB or do we trade down .
If for whatever reason the Giants are not in love with whomever is left . is anyone outside of Barkley or the
QB's worth taking ? I wouldn't doubt they trade down .
Build the O-line from FA (hoping for 2 outside of Fluker).
Draft accordingly the rest of the way. LB, Edge/DE, OL, whoever is the best player of that lot as the draft winds down through.
Maybe try to see about a FA WR, as well.
I'd be really happy with a draft/off-season that looked something like that.