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Scouts in the Org

Jay in Toronto : 2/19/2018 10:34 am
I know the focus has been on Reese and to some extent Ross.

I hope (and expect) that scouts' recommendations are also tracked and evaluated by teams.

On another thread there was a story of an argument on whether to pick Barber or Hilliard in Round one. It would be great to analyse the track records of the two scouts (including recommended picks that were not taken).

I imagine teams do this, but alas we fans don't have access. I'm not sure that we even have access to turnover in scouts. That would be another clue.
I expect that any capable GM assesses the reports that each  
yatqb : 2/19/2018 10:40 am : link
scout produces, and "self-scouts" his scouting department in the years following a draft. If not the GM is negligent.
Re: Scouts:  
old man : 2/19/2018 10:56 am : link
First, yatqb is right; you need to evaluate your staff, as in any operation, to see if they are meeting the needs/requirements of their job.
Second, on the subject of scouting: I know that DG changed the evaluation methodology; but did they fire/ add any to the scouting staff? I would have thought he would bring in a body+ he was confident in to somewhat manage the scout staff under the new process to make sure they evaluated properly plus that manager could do some sampling comparative scouting on the same players to see how HE sees a player to evaluate the staff scout so everyone is pulling in the same direction.
Scouts typically get fired  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/19/2018 11:09 am : link
after the draft and new scouts are brought in at that time. So I will not be surprised if that happens.
Im sure  
Dankbeerman : 2/19/2018 11:27 am : link
a lot can change based on what they are told to look for. the guys have been working the whole season but the new guys came in late. you cant go back and see something new but your grades can be affected by what is deamed important.

your changing the analysis not the stats
RE: Im sure  
Rocky369 : 2/19/2018 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13836048 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:
your changing the analysis not the stats

that is the correct take on this.
My understanding is DG  
Jay in Toronto : 2/19/2018 12:14 pm : link
Wants to move from a regional to a national/positional approach.

RE: My understanding is DG  
mrvax : 2/19/2018 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13836106 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
Wants to move from a regional to a national/positional approach.


I'm curious to know if teams have scouts that specialize in just a few positions.
Nespotism and Cronyism  
Giants1956 : 2/19/2018 1:20 pm : link
How much does that play into scout selections of the Giants.

It would be interesting to see who in the past scouts
have recommended to be ignored by GM, Coach or Ownership
Shore  
Jay in Toronto : 2/19/2018 2:23 pm : link
Are you sure there is a large yearly turnover in scouts? I was under a different impression.

Be interested in reading an analysis of different models of how scouring departments are organized and evaluated among different teams.
RE: Scouts typically get fired  
old man : 2/19/2018 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13836031 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
after the draft and new scouts are brought in at that time. So I will not be surprised if that happens.


Thanks. I had somehow forgotten that.
Eye  
Dragon : 2/20/2018 1:31 am : link
Of the beholder does not change I like player A, no matter what form or format you ask me to fill out I’m not going to start linking player B, more. This is going to be a DG draft because he has no one to use as a trusted advisor.
RE: Re: Scouts:  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/20/2018 1:36 am : link
In comment 13836024 old man said:
Quote:
First, yatqb is right; you need to evaluate your staff, as in any operation, to see if they are meeting the needs/requirements of their job.
Second, on the subject of scouting: I know that DG changed the evaluation methodology; but did they fire/ add any to the scouting staff? I would have thought he would bring in a body+ he was confident in to somewhat manage the scout staff under the new process to make sure they evaluated properly plus that manager could do some sampling comparative scouting on the same players to see how HE sees a player to evaluate the staff scout so everyone is pulling in the same direction.


That's part of Gettleman's job, to make determinations based on their information and evaluate them. He is quite literally their manager.
Jay  
Milton : 2/20/2018 2:30 am : link
I tried to find the story on the argument, but didn't have any luck. I'll keep looking, but the closest story I could find is linked below.
Quote:
The Giants needed a running back and they had internal discussions about taking Barber with their first-round pick, the seventh pick over all. But they had a poor group of wide receivers, and Fassel and Ernie Accorsi, the assistant general manager at that time, lobbied General Manager George Young to pass on Barber in the first round and select Ike Hilliard. Fassel stood outside the war room and made his case to Young: we need Hilliard, he argued, and besides, there aren't many teams looking for running backs in the first round.
Quote:
In retrospect, Barber said, ''I'm glad I got drafted where I got drafted. If I had been a first-rounder, I don't think my mind-set would have been the same. I think my ego would have been out of control. Every rookie is like that. They have that mentality -- 'Hey, I'm a first-round pick, I'm the best thing since sliced bread.' I knew I was going to have to work from then on.''

from NYT - ( New Window )
Here's a blurb from another article...  
Milton : 2/20/2018 2:41 am : link
Quote:
It began with a heated discussion on draft day in 1997 about whether the Giants should take receiver Ike Hilliard or Barber with the seventh pick. Most in the room liked both players. The question was whether Barber, a Virginia product, would be available in the second round.

No way, some scouts said. But Fassel believed there was a chance he would last until the 36th overall pick, figuring that because Barber was 5-10, 193 pounds, some teams would shy away, believing he lacked the size to be an every-down back. "That's usually a pretty good rule of thumb," general manager Ernie Accorsi said. "But you cannot prototype Tiki, because he's Tiki."

Had Accorsi been in charge, he likely would have traded up from the
second round to get Barber. But George Young did not do that sort of thing.
Giants scouting  
jbeintherockies : 2/20/2018 9:18 am : link
The Giants are one of the few teams to employ both their own scouting department and an outside scouting service. I assume they compare notes regularly to see if they are way off on anyone.

I, too, think more staff changes are coming once the off-season concludes. Mr. Gettleman will be evaluating more than potential draft picks and free agents.

RE: Giants scouting  
UberAlias : 2/20/2018 8:37 pm : link
In comment 13836830 jbeintherockies said:
Quote:
The Giants are one of the few teams to employ both their own scouting department and an outside scouting service. I assume they compare notes regularly to see if they are way off on anyone.

I, too, think more staff changes are coming once the off-season concludes. Mr. Gettleman will be evaluating more than potential draft picks and free agents.
. One of the few? I’m pretty sure most teams subscribe to outside services.
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