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NFT: JD Martinez to the Red Sox

adamg : 2/19/2018 5:47 pm
Per Heyman and Pedro Gomez
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RE: Absolutely horrendous contract by the Sox  
BigBlue4You09 : 2/19/2018 7:37 pm : link
In comment 13836435 Shecky said:
Quote:
Owners bend players over until spring training. Then cave anyway. Unreal lol.


You’re joking right? Boras asked for $210 million. It could end up only being 2/50 for the Sox in his prime.
RE: Wow...  
BigBlue4You09 : 2/19/2018 7:39 pm : link
In comment 13836513 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
5 year deal for a 30 year old who happens to be one of the best hitters in the game??? Looks like a steal next to the Stanton contract.


It’s a complete steal UGH. Boras failed big time
RE: How the hell is that a bad contract?  
Tuckrule : 2/19/2018 7:59 pm : link
In comment 13836459 redwhiteandbigblue said:
Quote:
5 years $110 million for a guy who had the highest slugging %in MLB? 45 HR's in 119 games which had NEVER been accomplished, not even the roided up Bonds. They front loaded a lousy $3 mil. extra for the next 2 years.AND they stuck to their guns with a 5 year max. contract.

Sounds pretty damn good to me.


Good post and i didn’t know that homerun fact. Remarkable.
Whatever  
terz22 : 2/19/2018 8:08 pm : link
Red Sox don't scare me one bit. Yankees division to lose.
...  
christian : 2/19/2018 8:45 pm : link
It's a fine contract if he produces at peak production for 2 years - at that point he'll clearly opt.

Or the last 150 games were an outlier, he'll be nearly 33 years old and gladly ride out the 3/75 has left on the deal.
RE: Absolutely horrendous contract by the Sox  
arcarsenal : 2/19/2018 8:47 pm : link
In comment 13836435 Shecky said:
Quote:
Owners bend players over until spring training. Then cave anyway. Unreal lol.


Mystifying comment.

This is anything but "horrendous"
MLB Network  
MookGiants : 2/19/2018 8:47 pm : link
a few weeks ago showed some statistics that Martinez swing is a bad fit in fenway.

Good hitter, but hits to the opposite field more than anything basically and in Fenway a handful of his home runs will turn to outs
He's a big bat  
arniefez : 2/19/2018 9:04 pm : link
He should help them a lot. But he's a DH and Hanley is a DH. Should be a fun summer.
Incorrect info.  
redwhiteandbigblue : 2/19/2018 9:20 pm : link
Of 45 home runs in 2017, 11 hit to LF and another 12 hit to Left center or dead center. Many of the remaining 22hr's were hit to right center. Bottom line, he hits to all fields.He is also a .303 hitter.

Bash the Sox deal all you want but in the end it is a very good deal. From 2015-2017, here is the comparison to Stanton:


BA- Martinez .296, Stanton .265
HR-Martinez -105, Stanton 113
RBI-Martinez-274, Stanton 273
Slugging %-Martinez-.580, Stanton .590
OBP-Martinez .363, Stanton .354

OPS-Martinez .943, Stanton .933

Actually fairly equal accept Martinez has a significantly higher BA. Very interesting.

Oh and for those who will use the argument that Martinez had better protection than Stanton, Actually, not entirely correct. Last year Cabrera had a terrible year and Upton had 28 he's and Castellanos had 22 hr's. Stanton on the other hand had Ozuna with 37 HR's and Bour with 25 HR's.
I'm good with the guy the Yankees got  
arniefez : 2/19/2018 9:24 pm : link
JD is a very good bat. The stats you posted are out of context but it doesn't matter. Both teams are better than last year.
I’ll be in the minority  
Shecky : 2/19/2018 9:27 pm : link
But stick with my bad signing comment
RE: Incorrect info.  
MookGiants : 2/19/2018 9:33 pm : link
In comment 13836598 redwhiteandbigblue said:
Quote:
Of 45 home runs in 2017, 11 hit to LF and another 12 hit to Left center or dead center. Many of the remaining 22hr's were hit to right center. Bottom line, he hits to all fields.He is also a .303 hitter.

Bash the Sox deal all you want but in the end it is a very good deal. From 2015-2017, here is the comparison to Stanton:


BA- Martinez .296, Stanton .265
HR-Martinez -105, Stanton 113
RBI-Martinez-274, Stanton 273
Slugging %-Martinez-.580, Stanton .590
OBP-Martinez .363, Stanton .354

OPS-Martinez .943, Stanton .933

Actually fairly equal accept Martinez has a significantly higher BA. Very interesting.

Oh and for those who will use the argument that Martinez had better protection than Stanton, Actually, not entirely correct. Last year Cabrera had a terrible year and Upton had 28 he's and Castellanos had 22 hr's. Stanton on the other hand had Ozuna with 37 HR's and Bour with 25 HR's.


So he hit the same amount of home runs to opposite field as he did center or left field, in other words it's not incorrect info from MLB. His 22 home runs will not come anywhere near that total playing in Fenway park half of his games. They didn't just pull it out of their ass. He hits to the opposite field more than he does any other single part of the field, not the best combo for a right handed hitter in fenway
They've both in the Majors since 2011...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 2/19/2018 9:34 pm : link
why only use numbers the past 3 seasons?
RE: They've both in the Majors since 2011...  
MookGiants : 2/19/2018 9:36 pm : link
In comment 13836610 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
why only use numbers the past 3 seasons?


Because 3 years fits his argument, entire career doesnt

He also thinks he hits to the opposite field more than anything is incorrect info despite the stats he used actually showing it's correct info, he hits to opposite field more than he hits to any other field
The last 2 years  
old man : 2/19/2018 9:50 pm : link
They tried to turn good contact hitters , the 4 Bs, into HR hitters, under Chili Davis, and each hit 25-40 points under their hitting average.
Instead of playing small ball to win games, those 4 became HR whores with ownership approval. Now they have a small ball manager, and Hanley the Waste so they had to go out and get a bat to cover him.
They did -0- to help their rotation or their bullpen. The Yanks should own mind them h2h and I wouldn't be surprised if they finish 3rd in the Division, they had to sign Nunez for 2nd until a busted up Pedroia comes back, they have nothing in their pipeline, and now have another dick in the locker room.
Cora will take the whipping for it.
Yanks are safe from them.
RE: RE: They've both in the Majors since 2011...  
christian : 2/19/2018 10:06 pm : link
In comment 13836612 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 13836610 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


why only use numbers the past 3 seasons?



Because 3 years fits his argument, entire career doesnt

He also thinks he hits to the opposite field more than anything is incorrect info despite the stats he used actually showing it's correct info, he hits to opposite field more than he hits to any other field


LOL so basically with 250 fewer ABs over a cherry picked stretch Stanton has equal to or greater power #s?

What point is this making?
RE: The last 2 years  
BigBlue4You09 : 2/19/2018 10:11 pm : link
In comment 13836625 old man said:
Quote:
They tried to turn good contact hitters , the 4 Bs, into HR hitters, under Chili Davis, and each hit 25-40 points under their hitting average.
Instead of playing small ball to win games, those 4 became HR whores with ownership approval. Now they have a small ball manager, and Hanley the Waste so they had to go out and get a bat to cover him.
They did -0- to help their rotation or their bullpen. The Yanks should own mind them h2h and I wouldn't be surprised if they finish 3rd in the Division, they had to sign Nunez for 2nd until a busted up Pedroia comes back, they have nothing in their pipeline, and now have another dick in the locker room.
Cora will take the whipping for it.
Yanks are safe from them.


You’re a homer at its finest, give real Yankee fans a bad name.
Oops.  
redwhiteandbigblue : 2/19/2018 10:20 pm : link
Forgot Mook is the expert on all things sports. My bad. Of course he knows all about Fenway. Not worth arguing with the self proclaimed guru of all. Over and out.
RE: I’ll be in the minority  
Bill L : 2/19/2018 10:31 pm : link
In comment 13836602 Shecky said:
Quote:
But stick with my bad signing comment
i don’t know if it’s a bad signing or not. Nobody does. I’d also say that *any* signing for any player is good or bad only when viewed retrospectively, and this is no different.

But what your comment *was* was the the Sox caved to Boras. As a few of us said, that’s not an accurate comment since he signed for much less than Boras promised and pretty much in line with the Sox initial offer. It’s more like Boras did the caving; the reality is that Boras misjudged the market originally and then had to bring things in line.
As a Sox fan, I’d rather have Stanton.  
Bill L : 2/19/2018 10:34 pm : link
But a positive for the JDM signing is that it didn’t cost the Sox anything. They stay under the luxury tax penalty and don’t lose draft position, they don’t give up players, they don’t lose the ability to extend their younger guys, and they give their thin farm system a bit of time to refresh. I also don’t think it takes them out of the running for next year where the actual marquee players will be on the market.
I also think JDM improves their offense  
Bill L : 2/19/2018 10:35 pm : link
So I wouldn’t buy into the attempts to diminish him too much. He’s a good hitter, no matter where he plays.
So for Mooks sake I guess I  
redwhiteandbigblue : 2/19/2018 10:36 pm : link
Can only compare stats for a career? I was merely comparing it to RECENT history. And the comparison was factual. And in no way did I say he does not hit to the opposite field. I said he hits to ALL fields. Mook get over yourself. Others have opinions and yours is not gospel. Unbelievable.
You're just a moron  
MookGiants : 2/19/2018 10:48 pm : link
who came here and said "incorrect info" when it clearly was NOT incorrect info, when half of your homers go to the opposite field and double either Center or left, you're clearly much more of an opposite field hitter than you are anything.

MLB Network didn't pull the stats or home run charts out of their ass. It was factual data. Not "incorrect" info.

MLB Network does great stuff with the #'s and analytics  
Stu11 : 2/20/2018 12:35 am : link
I would take it with a little grain of salt when talking about Fenway. That park is so ridiculously quirky with its cracks and crevices and jut outs. It will be interesting to see how he does there and if he can keep this ridiculous mid career explosion up. Nice to see the free agent/trade dominoes finally starting to fall.
It's a decent contract...  
Dunedin81 : 2/20/2018 5:01 am : link
And he's a much-needed bat. They should be a good team this year, but they have limited flexibility to add pieces, and unless they get extraordinary health out of that rotation it's got some huge question marks. An injury to Sale or TJS for Price and they're almost in Baltimore territory as a team that has to put up 7 or 8 to win. They do have a pen though.
RE: ...  
Matt M. : 2/20/2018 6:42 am : link
In comment 13836582 christian said:
Quote:
It's a fine contract if he produces at peak production for 2 years - at that point he'll clearly opt.

Or the last 150 games were an outlier, he'll be nearly 33 years old and gladly ride out the 3/75 has left on the deal.
How would the last 150 games be an outlier? He's been one of the best hitters in the game for a few years now.
Hey Mook.  
redwhiteandbigblue : 2/20/2018 6:49 am : link
Stick it up your arse. I have been on BBI for many years and you are far and away the biggest a-hole on here. Can't remember seeing a post of yours when someone provided an opposing viewpoint that you didn't berate then or insult them.

You post like you are 12 years old. Grow the hell up. You sir are the moron.
JD Martinez to the Red Sox...  
M.S. : 2/20/2018 6:53 am : link
...that's a very nice pick up for the BoSox. Can't slice it any other way.
Martinez is a big time slugger. But he's older and with a much  
Heisenberg : 2/20/2018 7:37 am : link
shorter track record than Stanton. And he's a bad OFer, while Stanton is decent in the field.

I would not trade Stanton for Martinez, even with Stanton being owed more money.

And it means that the Sox have to figure out where to put Hanley, who is a bad defender anywhere you put him.

It's a good deal for the Sox though. They finally have a hitter that's scary when he comes up. Ever since Papi retired, they haven't had that at all.
RE: As a Sox fan, I’d rather have Stanton.  
Shecky : 2/20/2018 7:51 am : link
In comment 13836648 Bill L said:
Quote:
They stay under the luxury tax penalty.


???
RE: RE: ...  
bigbluehoya : 2/20/2018 8:19 am : link
In comment 13836737 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 13836582 christian said:


Quote:


It's a fine contract if he produces at peak production for 2 years - at that point he'll clearly opt.

Or the last 150 games were an outlier, he'll be nearly 33 years old and gladly ride out the 3/75 has left on the deal.

How would the last 150 games be an outlier? He's been one of the best hitters in the game for a few years now.


It wouldn’t be crazy if the last 150-Game stretch ended up being the best stretch of his career. And that’s not really a slight...those are absolutely eye-popping numbers.

Overall, I think what Christian was alluding to was the element of wrong-way risk in the contract structure....if he produces bigtime, you’re either losing him or giving him a big raise in 2 years. If he doesn’t produce, you’re stuck for 3 years at $20M+.

Personally, I think the Sox did pretty well here, unfortunately. They needed the bat bigtime.
Even if this last season was an outlier(he was on 80+ HR pace!),  
Keith : 2/20/2018 8:34 am : link
he's still a fantastic hitter that puts up great numbers. He's a fantastic hitter, I don't think anyone can argue that. However, the biggest red flag is his availability.

He averages about 110 games per season over his 7 year career. He's played 1 full season over that span. Over the last 4 seasons, he played 1 full season and every other season played about 120 games. He also made it clear that he doesn't want to DH either.

Great hitter, one of the best in baseball, but he will get hurt many times over that 5 year contract.

this is only  
Rory : 2/20/2018 9:05 am : link
a bad signing if he gets hurt which he is semi-injury prone.

However the Redsox have already indicated they will mitigate that chance by making him exclusive to being a DH.

AL East will be a beast this year.

If I'm Tampa Balt or Toronto I say get ready to punt by ASB.
No "semi"  
Keith : 2/20/2018 9:10 am : link
they don't get more injury prone than Martinez. He's missed 40+ games in 6 of his 7 seasons.

I also thought that he made it clear that he will not sign to be a DH. He expects to play the field. Did that change?
RE: RE: As a Sox fan, I’d rather have Stanton.  
Bill L : 2/20/2018 9:38 am : link
In comment 13836758 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13836648 Bill L said:


Quote:


They stay under the luxury tax penalty.



???
Not sure what you don't understand.
RE: Martinez is a big time slugger. But he's older and with a much  
Bill L : 2/20/2018 9:41 am : link
In comment 13836751 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
shorter track record than Stanton. And he's a bad OFer, while Stanton is decent in the field.

I would not trade Stanton for Martinez, even with Stanton being owed more money.

And it means that the Sox have to figure out where to put Hanley, who is a bad defender anywhere you put him.

It's a good deal for the Sox though. They finally have a hitter that's scary when he comes up. Ever since Papi retired, they haven't had that at all.
Hanley isn't a hporrible 1B. But Moreland is a former GG guy so he will be there too. I figure, that they will platoon (RHP/LHP) and on those days Hanley plays, Moreland will be a late-inning defensive replacement. There's also a positive in this in the sense that Hanely needs a certain number of ABs because he has a vesting option for next year. Given his age and rate of production decrease, the Sox now have an out on his contract because Hanley will lose enough Abs to JDM and Moreland so as not to have his option vest.
RE: No  
Bill L : 2/20/2018 9:44 am : link
In comment 13836812 Keith said:
Quote:
they don't get more injury prone than Martinez. He's missed 40+ games in 6 of his 7 seasons.

I also thought that he made it clear that he will not sign to be a DH. He expects to play the field. Did that change?
Whatever he wanted, he went for the money. If he went to AZ, which was hisonly other offer, he would have played OF but made less $$. He too the $$. In Boston he will primarily DH. Maybe not exclusively. Cora seems committed to regular rest days for all of his position players (which was a big issue with Farrell last year, especially for young guys like Bogaerts and Betts). The thought is that when Bradley rests in CF, Benintendi will slide over and JDM will play LF. Maybe also when Benintendi rests too. So, he will play som eOF, but it will be pretty sparingly. That I would think lowers the injury risk.
5/110 represents the Red Sox bending Boras over  
mfsd : 2/20/2018 9:50 am : link
The risk of course is last season was classic peak in contract year performance from Martinez (guys have a funny way of staying healthier and producing when free agency is coming up).

But after that god awful Price contract, Sox did pretty well here.

I actually think the AL East as a whole will be worse...it’s getting back to the two horse Yanks/Sox race. I think Baltimore, Toronto and Tampa all suck this year
great deal except he's a bad fit for Fenway. He's a RH hitter  
Victor in CT : 2/20/2018 10:19 am : link
who's power is to the opposite field, mainly right center. Should be a lot of fly ball outs for him that were dingers last year.
it's a good signing  
Greg from LI : 2/20/2018 10:22 am : link
Might be a little pain at the end if he declines quickly, but the term is relatively short and they desperately needed a slugger. He may not be a perfect fit for them, and I seriously doubt he slugs anywhere near .690 again, but they're improved.
RE: RE: Was up in MA a week ago...  
Victor in CT : 2/20/2018 10:23 am : link
In comment 13836509 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 13836506 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Never seen people so blase about the Sox & baseball in general. No 'Pitchers & catchers report in ___ days!' It was more Pats & Celtics talk. Man, I remember being in NE & all anyone talked about was the Sox, regardless of the date. It doesn't feel like that anymore.



They lost their identity and fire when the Red Sox started winning titles.


Same thing happened after the Rangers won the Cup. If anybody remembers back that far. :-)
RE: great deal except he's a bad fit for Fenway. He's a RH hitter  
BigBlue4You09 : 2/20/2018 10:50 am : link
In comment 13836924 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
who's power is to the opposite field, mainly right center. Should be a lot of fly ball outs for him that were dingers last year.


2017 spray chart over Fenway...





RE: RE: Martinez is a big time slugger. But he's older and with a much  
Heisenberg : 2/20/2018 11:42 am : link
In comment 13836859 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13836751 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


shorter track record than Stanton. And he's a bad OFer, while Stanton is decent in the field.

I would not trade Stanton for Martinez, even with Stanton being owed more money.

And it means that the Sox have to figure out where to put Hanley, who is a bad defender anywhere you put him.

It's a good deal for the Sox though. They finally have a hitter that's scary when he comes up. Ever since Papi retired, they haven't had that at all.

Hanley isn't a hporrible 1B. But Moreland is a former GG guy so he will be there too. I figure, that they will platoon (RHP/LHP) and on those days Hanley plays, Moreland will be a late-inning defensive replacement. There's also a positive in this in the sense that Hanely needs a certain number of ABs because he has a vesting option for next year. Given his age and rate of production decrease, the Sox now have an out on his contract because Hanley will lose enough Abs to JDM and Moreland so as not to have his option vest.


Hanley's not horrible. He is a bad 1B glove though, which is somewhat surprising considering he used to be a shortstop. Like I said, good get for the Sox to add a much needed big bat to the lineup.
He won't play in enough games to make a difference  
Stan in LA : 2/20/2018 2:49 pm : link
Yawn...
Red Sox trying to keep up with the Yankees.  
Ryan in Albany : 2/20/2018 3:11 pm : link
Back to the tense rivalry and hating the redsocks. Back to normal. LOVE IT! Here's to crushing their hopes and trampling their dreams for the next 10 years.
it would be cool if the 21st century repeats the pattern of the 20th.  
Victor in CT : 2/20/2018 3:24 pm : link
The Sox had all the titles up unitl 1918, then the Yankees dominated them for 80+ years.

In this century, Boston has 3 titles to the Yanks 1, and here we are in 2018. Should be fascinating.
RE: it would be cool if the 21st century repeats the pattern of the 20th.  
Heisenberg : 2/20/2018 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13837320 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
The Sox had all the titles up unitl 1918, then the Yankees dominated them for 80+ years.

In this century, Boston has 3 titles to the Yanks 1, and here we are in 2018. Should be fascinating.


Sox ownership is too smart to have an 80 year drought again. Unfortunately :)
RE: RE: it would be cool if the 21st century repeats the pattern of the 20th.  
Greg from LI : 2/20/2018 3:42 pm : link
In comment 13837324 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13837320 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


The Sox had all the titles up unitl 1918, then the Yankees dominated them for 80+ years.

In this century, Boston has 3 titles to the Yanks 1, and here we are in 2018. Should be fascinating.



Sox ownership is too smart to have an 80 year drought again. Unfortunately :)


Eh....they're in decent shape, but they're clearly behind the Yankees both today and in the future. The Sawx farm system has been largely emptied while the Yankees continue to have a top 5 system.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
christian : 2/20/2018 3:45 pm : link
In comment 13836773 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 13836737 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 13836582 christian said:


Quote:


It's a fine contract if he produces at peak production for 2 years - at that point he'll clearly opt.

Or the last 150 games were an outlier, he'll be nearly 33 years old and gladly ride out the 3/75 has left on the deal.

How would the last 150 games be an outlier? He's been one of the best hitters in the game for a few years now.



It wouldn’t be crazy if the last 150-Game stretch ended up being the best stretch of his career. And that’s not really a slight...those are absolutely eye-popping numbers.

Overall, I think what Christian was alluding to was the element of wrong-way risk in the contract structure....if he produces bigtime, you’re either losing him or giving him a big raise in 2 years. If he doesn’t produce, you’re stuck for 3 years at $20M+.

Personally, I think the Sox did pretty well here, unfortunately. They needed the bat bigtime.


I was responding to the poster pointing out how historic his 2017 season was - should have noted 119 games, not 150 (which is another story).

Last year by many measures is an outlier in OBP, OPS+ and projected HRs per AB. He had a remarkable season.

If he continues that productivity in the next 2 years, he's obviously opting. Even if he returns to his career means he's still likely opting.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
Matt M. : 2/20/2018 4:38 pm : link
In comment 13837344 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 13836773 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


In comment 13836737 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 13836582 christian said:


Quote:


It's a fine contract if he produces at peak production for 2 years - at that point he'll clearly opt.

Or the last 150 games were an outlier, he'll be nearly 33 years old and gladly ride out the 3/75 has left on the deal.

How would the last 150 games be an outlier? He's been one of the best hitters in the game for a few years now.



It wouldn’t be crazy if the last 150-Game stretch ended up being the best stretch of his career. And that’s not really a slight...those are absolutely eye-popping numbers.

Overall, I think what Christian was alluding to was the element of wrong-way risk in the contract structure....if he produces bigtime, you’re either losing him or giving him a big raise in 2 years. If he doesn’t produce, you’re stuck for 3 years at $20M+.

Personally, I think the Sox did pretty well here, unfortunately. They needed the bat bigtime.



I was responding to the poster pointing out how historic his 2017 season was - should have noted 119 games, not 150 (which is another story).

Last year by many measures is an outlier in OBP, OPS+ and projected HRs per AB. He had a remarkable season.

If he continues that productivity in the next 2 years, he's obviously opting. Even if he returns to his career means he's still likely opting.
Got it. Yes, last season is an outlier in terms of the total production. But, over the last 4 seasons, when healthy, he has still been one of the top hitters in the game. Not an 80 HR pace, but a healthy pace none the less. He is a very good hitter who will improve the Sox offense. The Sox got a good deal here. How good depends on his health.
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