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NFT: NYR Trade Holden to Bruins: - trade deadline thread

pjcas18 : 2/20/2018 12:21 pm
Holden to BOS for a 3rd round pick and a minor league defenseman.

Quote:

New York Rangers
& #8207;Verified account @NYRangers
6m6 minutes ago

OFFICIAL: #NYR have acquired defenseman Rob OGara and a third round pick in the 2018 NHL Draft from the Boston Bruins in exchange for Nick Holden.
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Imagine what might happen  
bigbluehoya : 2/23/2018 3:35 pm : link
If you went away for months...or years....
What does this mean?  
pjcas18 : 2/23/2018 3:41 pm : link
sounded pretty straight forward. is it the salary cap?

Quote:

John Shannon
‏Verified account @JSportsnet
48s49 seconds ago

Just talked to someone who said of the Brassard deal "The league hasn't weighed in on it yet, this one is a complex one."
I don't know  
MetsAreBack : 2/23/2018 3:54 pm : link
But what does 'other cap related elements' mean?

Yeah brassard has another year on his deal and centers return more than wings especially this year. Also keep in mind we don't know what playoff teams Nash has on his NTC limiting his market.

Hopefully we get a one ... but might be two twos.... whoever gets him is going to be very very pleased in may. Guaranteed 10 goal playoff. Rinse. Repeat.
The cap related  
ManningLobsItBurressAlone : 2/23/2018 3:57 pm : link
element ended up being Ian Cole.

So the deal in full ended up being 2018 1st, Gustavsson, and Ian Cole with OTT retaining 18% of the contract.

I would imagine any sort of league hold up would have to do with salary cap ramifications for the Pens. I believe they are right up against it.
From Josh Yoke of the Athletic  
Rover : 2/23/2018 3:57 pm : link
Quote:
However, the Rangers badly wanted a defensive prospect. The Penguins have wonderful goaltending prospects and a couple of quality forward prospects, namely Daniel Sprong. However, they're relatively thin in terms of top-tier blue line prospects, which made such a trade possibility a poor match.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: I don't know  
Victor in CT : 2/23/2018 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13840745 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
But what does 'other cap related elements' mean?

Yeah brassard has another year on his deal and centers return more than wings especially this year. Also keep in mind we don't know what playoff teams Nash has on his NTC limiting his market.

Hopefully we get a one ... but might be two twos.... whoever gets him is going to be very very pleased in may. Guaranteed 10 goal playoff. Rinse. Repeat.


10 goals? Is that Rick Nash or some other Nash? :-)

but seriously, I'm skeptical of getting a # 1 for Nash. He's one of the all time playoff gaggers, scores at less that half the rate he does in the regular season.

To date, he avgs .414 GPG in the reg season, .195 GPG in the playoffs.
.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/23/2018 4:11 pm : link
...  
BrettNYG10 : 2/23/2018 4:12 pm : link
Isn't Brassard a better asset than Nash or am I wrong?

I'd be surprised if Nash doesn't fetch a #1. But the Brassard deal dampens my optimism that we can get much more.
RE: RE: I don't know  
Greg from LI : 2/23/2018 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13840766 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
but seriously, I'm skeptical of getting a # 1 for Nash. He's one of the all time playoff gaggers, scores at less that half the rate he does in the regular season.

To date, he avgs .414 GPG in the reg season, .195 GPG in the playoffs.


He can still be quite valuable for a team that's not relying on him as a primary scoring option, though, because he's so versatile. A contender could park him on the third line and feel confident of getting good all-around play and he can contribute to special teams. And, if he got hot and starts potting a bunch of goals, then that's just a bonus.
I want to laugh at that, Brett  
Greg from LI : 2/23/2018 4:17 pm : link
Because it IS funny.

On the other hand, fuck Pittsburgh and anyone who cheers for them
RE: ...  
ManningLobsItBurressAlone : 2/23/2018 4:30 pm : link
In comment 13840772 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Isn't Brassard a better asset than Nash or am I wrong?

I'd be surprised if Nash doesn't fetch a #1. But the Brassard deal dampens my optimism that we can get much more.


For sure. Nash is just a rental, while Pittsburgh has Brassard for next year as well.

Yes, that pick is gonna end up 25-30, but Gustavsson is a good goaltending prospect, and Ian Cole they should be able to flip to another team for further picks.

I think Nash will definitely return some value, maybe not quite what's expected, but he's a solid 3 zone player, that plays all phases.
RE: ...  
arcarsenal : 2/23/2018 4:32 pm : link
In comment 13840772 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Isn't Brassard a better asset than Nash or am I wrong?

I'd be surprised if Nash doesn't fetch a #1. But the Brassard deal dampens my optimism that we can get much more.


He is because of the extra year - but worse players than Nash have fetched 1's as rentals and there's no reason why we shouldn't be getting that for him.

If we can't even get a 1 for Nash, I think Gorton is doing a bad job.
Boston  
pjcas18 : 2/23/2018 5:43 pm : link
radio (98.5) twitter poll:

Quote:

James Stewart
‏Verified account @IAmJamesStewart
30m30 minutes ago

If you're the Bruins, would you trade a package highlighted by DeBrusk, Carlo and this year's first round pick (if the Bruins make the Cup final) for Mats Zuccarello and Ryan McDonagh?


55% of Bruins fans say no (out of 1000 votes)

I think they're crazy. I do that in a heartbeat. I like DeBrusk, Carlo was great, but has been scuffling, and a 1st round pick is a 1st round pick.
Id be furious if the rangers  
bigbluehoya : 2/23/2018 7:35 pm : link
Accepted that deal, and Im wide open to trading one or both players. But that price is absolutely laughable.
Well... welcome back Kid K tonight  
MetsAreBack : 2/23/2018 8:29 pm : link
blood clots are some scary shit, great to see him out there. Not sure why they have him back this year if they're trying to tank but whatever. Go Wild.
this is a complicated trade  
pjcas18 : 2/23/2018 9:26 pm : link
Quote:

David Pagnotta
‏ @TheFourthPeriod
1m1 minute ago

Trade details:

To PIT:
C Derick Brassard
F Vincent Dunn
F Tobias Lindberg
2018 3rd RD pick (OTT)

To VGK:
RW Ryan Reaves
2018 4th RD pick (VAN via PIT)
Retain 40% of Brassard cap hit

To OTT:
2018 1st RD pick (PIT)
2019 3rd RD pick (PIT)
D Ian Cole
G Filip Gustavsson
Vegas is quickly becoming one of my most hated franchises  
MetsAreBack : 2/23/2018 10:33 pm : link
First they are gifted every teams 3rd line center or wing and 2nd pair damn.

Now this. What the fuck is in this deal for them ? Is it some weird IOU for fleury? A 4th round pick and a goon is worth $2 million (actually more than that since they pick up some this year too) Wtf. Why does Pittsburgh keep having other teams pick up their tab for good players - kessel now this. Isn't Crosby playing at literally half his fucking market value enough already?
Yeah this makes zero sense for Vegas  
Kyle in NY : 2/23/2018 11:25 pm : link
What is the point of this deal for them? Fuckin Penguins
.  
arcarsenal : 2/24/2018 1:45 am : link
I really think we have a shot of getting into the top 5 here.

Detroit is only a point behind us with 2 in hand - MTL and EDM are 5 pts back with 2 games in hand.

Falling behind OTT/VAN will probably not happen, and there's no chance we'll fall behind BUF/ARZ - but there's a very good chance that DET/MTL/EDM can pass us.

We have 20 games left - I truly do not see us winning more than 4-5 of them.

The players we are putting out there now are AWFUL. The Rangers look like an olympic team from a country with zero hockey background. We don't score, we can't defend - this team does nothing well now with our best players either shelved or about to be traded.

We'll be lucky to win 5 more games. I don't think we will.

Just keep losing!
RE: Vegas is quickly becoming one of my most hated franchises  
bigbluehoya : 2/24/2018 7:36 am : link
In comment 13841041 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
First they are gifted every teams 3rd line center or wing and 2nd pair damn.

Now this. What the fuck is in this deal for them ? Is it some weird IOU for fleury? A 4th round pick and a goon is worth $2 million (actually more than that since they pick up some this year too) Wtf. Why does Pittsburgh keep having other teams pick up their tab for good players - kessel now this. Isn't Crosby playing at literally half his fucking market value enough already?


Not sure if I believe it, but I saw some stuff on Twitter that VGK did it to keep Brassard in the east. Evidently there was a deal with a WC team if the numbers with Pit didnt fit.
Well that's fucking stupid if true  
MetsAreBack : 2/24/2018 8:51 am : link
.
Anyway the next week is critical to our tank / lottery position  
MetsAreBack : 2/24/2018 9:56 am : link
Head to heads with Detroit (home and they are on a back to back), Vancouver and Edmonton. It's critical we lose all 3 of these preferably in regulation. I still don't understand how the fuck Edmonton is in this conversation.

Not sure why Kreider is back. It seems like it's ahead of schedule off an internal surgery and may just end up moving us back in the draft.

If we can get to the final 16 games - 10 against this division with most playing for something - at 60 points or less we've got a good shot at top 4-5
According to tankathon.com  
NYerInMA : 2/24/2018 1:56 pm : link
Rangers have a 6.7% chance of getting the #1 pick as of today. Approx. 21% chance of top 3.
2018 NHL Draft Lottery Simulator - ( New Window )
Top 5 seems do-able.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/24/2018 2:12 pm : link
I'm really doubtful they can get to third, though.
Garth gonna Garth  
KWhite2250 : 2/24/2018 3:17 pm : link
Trades a 3rd rd pick for Brandon Davidson who was waived by oilers 3 months ago.
RE: Vegas is quickly becoming one of my most hated franchises  
Mike in NY : 2/24/2018 4:18 pm : link
In comment 13841041 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
First they are gifted every teams 3rd line center or wing and 2nd pair damn.

Now this. What the fuck is in this deal for them ? Is it some weird IOU for fleury? A 4th round pick and a goon is worth $2 million (actually more than that since they pick up some this year too) Wtf. Why does Pittsburgh keep having other teams pick up their tab for good players - kessel now this. Isn't Crosby playing at literally half his fucking market value enough already?


They have a bunch of cap space so essentially they get Reaves and a 4th rounder for helping out. Not to mention it keeps Brassard in the Eastern Conference.
RE: Garth gonna Garth  
Mike in NY : 2/24/2018 4:20 pm : link
In comment 13841497 KWhite2250 said:
Quote:
Trades a 3rd rd pick for Brandon Davidson who was waived by oilers 3 months ago.


Waived by Montreal. 2019 3rd Round pick. He is a warm body with size. Would rather see what he has than Denis Seidenberg. What is infuriating is Nick "-33" Leddy. The Islanders have D-men who are in double digits on the positive side of the +/- ledger so how the hell is Nick Leddy so low?
Davidson  
pjcas18 : 2/24/2018 4:55 pm : link
is garbage, but 3rd round picks aren't much in reality. NYI D is garbage too though so maybe he can help.

Evander Kane being held out, Plekanec being held out (rumors of Plekanec to Winnipeg heating up).

big night tonight with 10 games on the schedule.
.  
pjcas18 : 2/24/2018 8:39 pm : link
Quote:

Darren Dreger
‏Verified account @DarrenDreger
20s20 seconds ago

Bruins busy with the Leafs in game, but Boston definitely has interest in Rick Nash. Can they make the cap work? Ongoing discussions.
Watchig MTL vs TB  
pjcas18 : 2/24/2018 8:57 pm : link
I feel like TB could really use McDonagh. Another quote on Nash to the B's.

Quote:

David Pagnotta
‏ @TheFourthPeriod
45s45 seconds ago

Bruins don't have much salary cap space. Rangers would need to retain a chunk of Nash's contract, and that alone might still be tough to pull off. #nomore3waysplease
.  
pjcas18 : 2/24/2018 9:04 pm : link
Quote:

HabsLinks
‏ @HabsLinks
1m1 minute ago

Friedman on HNIC: "I think the belief is Pacioretty wants to go."
1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
HabsLinks
‏ @HabsLinks
41s41 seconds ago

Kypreos follows this up by saying that the LA Kings are pushing hard for Pacioretty. Says #Habs have asked for guys like Tanner Pearson / Tyler Toffoli in return.
Nash to Boston  
Carl in CT : 2/24/2018 9:07 pm : link
Rumors are heating up.
Obviously the Nash  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2018 1:00 pm : link
trade is mentioned in it's own thread. I'd be slightly disappointed as a Rangers fan with the return. Spooner doesn't crack the Rangers top 6 (depending who they retain), Beleskey is an AHL player, but a 1st is a 1st, so I woukdn't complain too much.


I do like Lindgren a lot though, MTL has his brother Charlie (a goalie), Ryan reminds me a little of McAvoy. Not quite as smooth, but certainly a young upgrade over the current Rangers D (I'd have him over Pionk an Deangelo right now).

Other trades:
Plekanec to TOR (rumored to be returning to MTL this off-season), for a 2nd and some spare change.

Letestu from EDM to the Blue Jackets (I think this for CBJ)

Aberg from NSH to EDM

NSH gets a 4th - I believe the above was a 3-team trade.

Activity heating up, one thing I read is under no circumstances is Lundqvist going anywhere and he's starting tonight vs DET.

I'm not sure I'd trade McDonagh  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2018 1:31 pm : link
I know people get caught up in a rebuild, but he's got another year left and who do you replace him with?

rebuild or retool?

Quote:
Aaron Portzline
‏Verified account @Aportzline
2h2 hours ago

Sense around the league is that #NYR will likely unload D Ryan McDonagh before market for #CBJ Jack Johnson picks up. No guarantee #CBJ trade him, even if he remains unsigned. Very fluid situation; could go either way.
To me at least  
jv : 2/25/2018 1:37 pm : link
Trading McDonagh indicates a full commitment to the idea of a rebuild instead of reverting to more of a retool.
I don't think the Devils are done  
Stu11 : 2/25/2018 1:37 pm : link
I think they'd love to upgrade on D. not a vet depth guy, the already sit Mueller and have Santini in the minors. More like using those type guys and packaging them for a D upgrade.
RE: To me at least  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2018 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13842097 jv said:
Quote:
Trading McDonagh indicates a full commitment to the idea of a rebuild instead of reverting to more of a retool.


definitely IMO too, but then I'd trade Hank too.
Hank  
Giantfootball025 : 2/25/2018 1:42 pm : link
has earned the right to tell NYR no though imo. If he realizes its his last year and he wants to be traded for a shot at the cup then I think thats the only way Hank is moved. It will be on his terms.
I'd keep McDonagh unless they get a great offer  
Kyle in NY : 2/25/2018 1:45 pm : link
But NYR seem to have made the decision to move on. I understand the logic with a new contract coming up. I just wish they'd been this logical when Girardi and Staal were coming up for new deals.
I think they would love to trade Hank  
jv : 2/25/2018 1:45 pm : link
Hank keeps reiterating that he will not waive the NMC and will only play hockey in NY. Hes earned it but I cant imagine wanting to get shelled every night for the rest of your contract with all hopes of winning a Stanley Cup gone
I get the Rangers approach  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2018 1:51 pm : link
I mean they were a better team than Ottawa last year and could easily have been playing for a cup, so they really couldn't go full rebuild while they still have contention expectations.

And in the process of doing this they managed to add 4 (so far) 1st round picks and the first two look like solid pieces to potential HR's.

It's hard to rebuild when you're a contender, but so far hard to argue with Gorton's results. He's got 2 centers in the wings. Needs some D.
Preds  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2018 3:55 pm : link
look like they're making a run, adding some sandpaper here. Not sure Bollig was the best option though, I don't think he's been in the NHL for a couple years.

Cost the preds a 6th round pick.

Quote:

Nashville Predators
‏Verified account @PredsNHL
1m1 minute ago

Trade: #Preds acquire forward Brandon Bollig and goaltender Troy Grosenick from #SJSharks.
.  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2018 3:58 pm : link
Quote:

Bob McKenzie
‏Verified account @TSNBobMcKenzie
46s46 seconds ago

As expected, CAN Olympian Chris Kelly has agreed to terms on a contract for the balance of this season with ANA. It will be worth $1.25M pro rated plus bonuses.


Also, reported on another thread the Bruins signed Brian Gionta. Not sure why, he looked cooked in the Olympics. Against lesser competition, but in fairness he was also playing with lesser competition.

Bergeron is in a walking boot, but I think I read he's day to day with an LBI. So I doubt Gionta is related to that.
Further to my comment on  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2018 6:25 pm : link
2nd round NHL picks that I posted above.

The Canadiens have 4 2nd round picks this year (so far) in addition to their 1st round pick so below is a tweet from a habs beat writer about NHL success in those draft spots (not MTL success, but overall NHL success (which is obviously variable in definition).

Quote:

Brian Wilde
‏ @BWildeRecrutes
2m2 minutes ago

Habs Draft Spots and NHL success rate at that spot.

5th=95%
36th=30%
38th=30%
56th=15%
57th=15%

2nd rounders much harder to land than ppl think.
From 2013, theres only one regular in NHL. Lehkonen.
Devils advocate....  
MetsAreBack : 2/26/2018 9:58 am : link
yeah, 2nd and 3rd rounders certainly take more time to develop and like any sport the hit rate is a lot lower... but 2013 cut-off seems a little short sighted considering for lots of these 17-18 year olds, you're waiting until year 4 (this year) to see a return.

2011 NHL draft - 2nd round - was tremendous. Kucherov, Jenner, Gibson, Saad, Granlund, Edmundson. Other guys turning in decent careers - Ritchie, Rask, etc.
RE: Devils advocate....  
pjcas18 : 2/26/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 13842605 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
yeah, 2nd and 3rd rounders certainly take more time to develop and like any sport the hit rate is a lot lower... but 2013 cut-off seems a little short sighted considering for lots of these 17-18 year olds, you're waiting until year 4 (this year) to see a return.

2011 NHL draft - 2nd round - was tremendous. Kucherov, Jenner, Gibson, Saad, Granlund, Edmundson. Other guys turning in decent careers - Ritchie, Rask, etc.


Fair, I posted this in the Grabner trade thread and it was off the top of my head (I don't know every single one of these guys. Point was that 2nd round is maybe a 10 - 15% chance of a player becoming an NHL regular. And that's the 2nd round.

5 all-stars since 2009 from the 2nd round by my count.

Quote:
2012:
Pontus Aberg (LW)
Colton Sissons (C)

both on NSH, and both barely NHL regulars at 24 years old. Neither are stars

2013:
Artturi Lehkonen (LW) (and this is a stretch)

2014:
None (too soon)

So I'll go back a little:

2011:
Boone Jenner (C)
John Gibson (G)
Brandon Saad (LW)
Markus Granland (C) (on his 2nd team)
Victor Rask (C)
Joel Edmundson (D)
William Karlsson (C) - where did this year's success come from?

Nikita Kucherov (F) *** Home Run

2010:
Justin Faulk (D)
Devante Smith-Pelly (RW)
Ryan Spooner (C)
Tyler Toffoli (RW)


2009:
Ryan O"Reilly (C)
Kyle Clifford (LW)
Jakob Silfverberg (RW)
Robin Lehner (G)
Brian Dumolin (D)
Richard Panik (LW)
Dmitry Orlov (D)
Tomas Tatar (C)

basically you have about a 10% chance of a 2nd round pick making the NHL as a regular player IMO, these are all off my scans of the draft results, I don't know every player, so I made the best guess I could. It's possible I missed someone.

five all-stars I believe, since 2009 from the 2nd round.

If you go back to 2007 you can get PK Subban and 2008 you can get Roman Josi, but not much more by going back more.
Are there players Gordon feels are the "core" of the future?  
baadbill : 2/26/2018 10:41 am : link
Gordon said "everyone is on the table". In theory that is always true. Wayne Gretsky at his prime could have been bought if a franchise offered its entire drafts for the next decade (being facetious here to make a point).

So the statement "everyone is on the table" is a non-statement because, in theory, everyone is always on the table depending upon the offer. However, the actual reality is obviously different than theory. In reality, are there current players Gordon considers to be the "core of the future"? If so, who?
(and which are "definite core" and which are one level below as "likely core")?

-----------------------------
Filip Chytil
Lias Andersson
Alexandar Georgiev
-----------------------------

Pavel Buchnevich
Brady Skjei

-----------------------------
Mika Zibanejad
Chris Kreider
J.T. Miller
Jimmy Vesey

On my list, I listed them in the sequence in which I believe they represent core value moving forward. In other words, the top three are Chytil-Andersson-Georgiev. Next Buchnevich-Skjei. And then Zibanejad-Kreider-Miller-Vesey.

That's only 9 players (1 goalie and 1 D). Are there others that you believe are (in reality) safe and considered by Gordon to be part of the future? Are there players in my groupings you believe are, in reality, not part of the future core?


Hayes would be in that last tier  
MetsAreBack : 2/26/2018 12:07 pm : link

you've also got a bunch of guys with 2-3 years left on their deals too -- most if not all of these guys that are likely immovable.

Staal
Smith
Shattenkirk
Lundqvist
now Beleskey

...but no doubt we need to get lucky in this upcoming lottery and i honestly think their plan is to aim for a top 5 pick next draft too.

Which is why i'm fine bringing on bad contracts (accompanied by picks) with ~two years left on their deals with teams up against their caps or otherwise looking to save money on bad deals (Florida is always a team looking to shed payroll)

From there, you can start to rebuild. So the question becomes, do you keep that third tier of players you listed around hoping to be contributing members coming out of this rebuild in 3 years? I'm also not sure that all of them can be retained under the cap. I'm fine dealing some of them this summer.

My main concern is Sather won't let this rebuild run its proper course and will rush to put out a marketable product sooner rather than later - dooming us to more of the same 'good but not good enough' that has plagued this building for 30 years.
Georgiev is not first tier  
Greg from LI : 2/26/2018 12:12 pm : link
Shestyorkin will be Hank's successor, not Georgiev.

On the big club, I don't think anyone is untouchable. Buchnevich would be the closest to it.
RE: Georgiev is not first tier  
baadbill : 2/26/2018 3:55 pm : link
In comment 13842777 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Shestyorkin will be Hank's successor, not Georgiev.

On the big club, I don't think anyone is untouchable. Buchnevich would be the closest to it.


Greg, I confused Georgiev with Shestyorkin. I hadn't read anything about Georgiev being called up and just assumed he must be the Russian successor to Hank.
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