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The Giants announced they have re-signed John Greco.

bumpsinthenight : 2/21/2018 11:52 am
per Patricia Trania Twitter
The Giants announced they have re-signed John Greco. - ( New Window )
Good depth signing  
montanagiant : 2/21/2018 11:56 am : link
.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 11:58 am : link
Re-signing a 33-year old guard?

Makes little sense to me.
Need talent, depth, and competition  
JonC : 2/21/2018 12:00 pm : link
it's got to start somewhere.
RE: ...  
blueblood : 2/21/2018 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13838011 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Re-signing a 33-year old guard?

Makes little sense to me.


but last year everyone wanted a 36 year old tackle in Whitworth.

question is.. what is the contract.. how much.. how long.. could be a depth signing only..
RE: Need talent, depth, and competition  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13838016 JonC said:
Quote:
it's got to start somewhere.


Not here. A 33-year old guard who couldn't seriously challenge the group of schlubs we had last year?

Not serving as a cheerleader here for moves that don't make much sense.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:04 pm : link
Dan Duggan correctly points out that Greco played for Shurmur in Cleveland.
Have to think  
Breeze_94 : 2/21/2018 12:05 pm : link
this is a sign that John Jerry is gone?

Greco is solid as depth.
Not that this signing has anything to do with it  
Chris684 : 2/21/2018 12:05 pm : link
But I think it's pretty fair to assume Pugh is outta here.

Other than Flowers being provided another opportunity, perhaps on the right side, I have no idea who is part of the starting OL next season.
ehh  
superspynyg : 2/21/2018 12:06 pm : link
as long as its for the vet min. Hopefully this gets Jerry off the roster.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:09 pm : link
Tom Rock‏Verified account @TomRock_Newsday

John Greco played for both Giants HC Pat Shurmur (2011,12) and Giants OL coach Hal Hunter (2016) in Cleveland.
RE: ...  
robbieballs2003 : 2/21/2018 12:09 pm : link
In comment 13838011 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Re-signing a 33-year old guard?

Makes little sense to me.


Makes perfect sense to me. We cannot have everything perfect in one year. It takes time. This is a great move to me. He is solid depth and a good locker room guy. He knows Shurmur. We need the right type of guys on this team. He fits what Gettleman wants. He is a stop gap that gives us another year or so to get younger. And getting younger doesn't mean much if it is the wrong people.
He may get cut  
PaulN : 2/21/2018 12:10 pm : link
No need to get upset over this signing.
I'll wait to see the contract details  
Emil : 2/21/2018 12:12 pm : link
before forming a final opinion

But on the surface, it makes sense to keep Greco around as a backup Guard. Played for Shurmur in Cleveland and could be helpful as the new regime tries to change the locker room. It's worth noting that the OL chemistry (Bobby Hart) was almost as big of a problem as the DB chemistry.

If this is a vet minimum signing then I've got no problem with it. There are enough holes on this offensive line for young talent to come in and take advantage of opportunities.
RE: RE: ...  
Brown Recluse : 2/21/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 13838038 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13838011 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Re-signing a 33-year old guard?

Makes little sense to me.



Makes perfect sense to me. We cannot have everything perfect in one year. It takes time. This is a great move to me. He is solid depth and a good locker room guy. He knows Shurmur. We need the right type of guys on this team. He fits what Gettleman wants. He is a stop gap that gives us another year or so to get younger. And getting younger doesn't mean much if it is the wrong people.


To quote The JonC, "robbie - on target"
robbieballs2003  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:12 pm : link
We're talking about a lineman who both the Browns and Saints recently cut.
I assume that it's for close to the league minimum for his  
yatqb : 2/21/2018 12:13 pm : link
years of service, so he'd be an easy cut if he doesn't make the opening roster.
RE: ...  
Emil : 2/21/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13838036 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Tom RockVerified account @TomRock_Newsday

John Greco played for both Giants HC Pat Shurmur (2011,12) and Giants OL coach Hal Hunter (2016) in Cleveland.


Greco might be here to help mentor young players. He no doubt knows what his value is. Could be a good, if unspectacular signing.
RE: robbieballs2003  
robbieballs2003 : 2/21/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13838046 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We're talking about a lineman who both the Browns and Saints recently cut.


So?
Depth signing  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/21/2018 12:17 pm : link
No problem with it so long as it is cheap.
I'm not pressing any panic buttons about this  
OdellBeckhamJr : 2/21/2018 12:21 pm : link
let the new GM work his Gettlemagic
robbieballs2003  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:21 pm : link
He's not very good. And he's near the end of the line.

But hell yeah! Great signing!
RE: robbieballs2003  
robbieballs2003 : 2/21/2018 12:24 pm : link
In comment 13838062 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
He's not very good. And he's near the end of the line.

But hell yeah! Great signing!


Have you seen our OL over the past 6 or so years? This is a good depth signing. Nobody is saying you should be doing cartwheels. There is a difference between you originally saying you don't understand it and now saying it is not a great signing.
robbieballs2003  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:26 pm : link
Let me think? Hmmmm... Yes, I do believe I've seen our offensive line in the last six years.

However, my crystal ball tells me that John Greco is not likely to be part of the solution moving forward. Call me crazy.
FYI...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:26 pm : link
front page update with re-signing of Greco and cutting of Ishaq Williams (old news)...
Giants Re-Sign Guard John Greco, Cut Linebacker Ishaq Williams - ( New Window )
RE: robbieballs2003  
bigbluescot : 2/21/2018 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13838062 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
He's not very good. And he's near the end of the line.

But hell yeah! Great signing!


It's not a great signing, but there's a certain logic in it depending on the contract. If it's a vet minimum (maybe with a very small signing fee) 1 year deal then it's essentially a camp signing of a vet (regardless of how limited he is) who knows the offensive system and has familiarity with the Oline coaching.

If he's somehow gotten a multi year deal then it's far more questionable.
RE: robbieballs2003  
Brown Recluse : 2/21/2018 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13838062 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
He's not very good. And he's near the end of the line.

But hell yeah! Great signing!


If he's not very good and he's near the end of the line, then he'll either get cut in camp or sit on the bench. How is either scenario a bad one?
I'm curious if Gettleman goes back to his plans in 2000  
Matt in SGS : 2/21/2018 12:28 pm : link
when the Giants focused on rebuilding the OL using veterans as stopgaps to stabilize the line to allow the offense to work and buy more time to bring in younger players. Gettleman came to the Giants as a scout in 1998 and was pro personnel director starting in 1999. The Giants offensive line that started in 1999 was Oben, Petitgout, Brian Williams, Stone, and Gragg.

By 2000, when the Giants went to the Super Bowl, the Giants had reshaped the OL. Only Stone stayed in his spot. Petitgout was moved over to right tackle. And the Giants signed Glenn Parker and Lomas Brown, who started on the left side. Brian Williams unfortunately got hurt and the Giants brought in Dusty Ziegler.

The point is, the Giants used 40% of their line on what you would call "cagey veterans" at the end of their career and squeezed 2 years out of them while they developed some young OL who were undrafted free agents and slotted them in (Seubert, Bober, and Whittle specifically). Guys who in the end were very similar to what Gettleman produced in Norwell years later in Carolina.

Gettleman knows he needs to upgrade the OL and pretty much told everyone as much. Going after Norwell makes sense as an instant splash. But bringing in/back guys like Greco to hold the fort for a year or so while they rebuild the talent below from this draft / UDFA class and next years as well would be very similar to what Gettleman helped do with Brown and Parker 18 years ago.
Brown Recluse  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:28 pm : link
I guess I'd just rather give one of the 90 available roster spots to a younger player, even an undrafted one.
Matt in SGS  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:30 pm : link
No doubt we are going to have to spend as much as 1/3 to 1/2 of our OL spots on less than ideal veterans. Why? Because really good OL's don't usually hit free agency, and relatively speaking, we won't have as much cap room as most teams.

So look for 3, 4, maybe 5 veterans on this team that are "meh". But Greco is a player who I thought was considering retirement at one point.
RE: Brown Recluse  
Brown Recluse : 2/21/2018 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13838079 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I guess I'd just rather give one of the 90 available roster spots to a younger player, even an undrafted one.


This signing doesn't mean those aren't still plausible alternatives.
RE: Brown Recluse  
Gman11 : 2/21/2018 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13838079 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I guess I'd just rather give one of the 90 available roster spots to a younger player, even an undrafted one.
You'd change your tune when all the OL are injured and they have to go with a turnstile like Biznowatti or a guy like him. Greco is going to be a reserve. I don't see where it's anything to get hyper over.
33 doesn't seem too old for a depth signing.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/21/2018 12:34 pm : link
What's the fuss?
RE: Matt in SGS  
UberAlias : 2/21/2018 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13838081 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
No doubt we are going to have to spend as much as 1/3 to 1/2 of our OL spots on less than ideal veterans. Why? Because really good OL's don't usually hit free agency, and relatively speaking, we won't have as much cap room as most teams.

So look for 3, 4, maybe 5 veterans on this team that are "meh". But Greco is a player who I thought was considering retirement at one point.
According to Sy's review, he played well in the Skins game. I doubt they are committing anything to him.
The only problem with signing aging veterans as backups occurs when  
Ivan15 : 2/21/2018 12:37 pm : link
they have to start.

Okay for a game or two until they end up starting for half a season.
RE: Matt in SGS  
Matt in SGS : 2/21/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13838081 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
No doubt we are going to have to spend as much as 1/3 to 1/2 of our OL spots on less than ideal veterans. Why? Because really good OL's don't usually hit free agency, and relatively speaking, we won't have as much cap room as most teams.

So look for 3, 4, maybe 5 veterans on this team that are "meh". But Greco is a player who I thought was considering retirement at one point.


Eric,

I agree with you, it is what it is. The Giants are almost forced to overpay for a Norwell to upgrade the talent. And what they are likely figuring out is that an old veteran OL is better than sticking a young fringe project out there to get exposed (Bobby Hart) while they rebuild the talent via the draft and UDFA. Let guys develop first similar to Rich Suebert and go from there instead of throwing OL out there before they are ready and killing the entire offense.
RE: The only problem with signing aging veterans as backups occurs when  
Matt in SGS : 2/21/2018 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13838099 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
they have to start.

Okay for a game or two until they end up starting for half a season.


We said that about Lomas Brown and Glenn Parker too.
Really hes going to be  
NikkiMac : 2/21/2018 12:41 pm : link
The reserve guard if he has anything left , he played well when he got the opportunity last season and at the end in the last game against the Skins

Hes a hog mollie good signing imo
Matt  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:41 pm : link
So Norwell is our Stone. We still need our Parker and Thomas.
Gettleman  
Phil in LA : 2/21/2018 12:44 pm : link
Helped put together the 2000 and 2004 lines. This certainly looks like one of those signings. Lets see what else they do.
RE: RE: Need talent, depth, and competition  
AcidTest : 2/21/2018 12:45 pm : link
In comment 13838020 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13838016 JonC said:


Quote:


it's got to start somewhere.



Not here. A 33-year old guard who couldn't seriously challenge the group of schlubs we had last year?

Not serving as a cheerleader here for moves that don't make much sense.


Tend to agree. Must be because of his connection to Shurmur. Maybe Jerry is gone.
Matt good point...  
Chris684 : 2/21/2018 12:45 pm : link
Gettleman may go that route. I do think Shurmur is going to be in his ear talking about how quickly in o-line can be rebuilt.

Minnesota's 2016 oline was a revolving door.

Norwell + 1 premium draft pick totally changes this o-line. But I have a feeling you are going to see a cluster OL draft for NYG.
Matt  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:46 pm : link
Where I really agree with you is where you say, "It is what it is."

But this is the problem that Reese/Ross left us. When you constantly screw up in the draft, you have to overcompensate in free agency. Sometimes it works out (Damon Harrison) but sometimes it really backfires (the two DE contracts are not looking good right now). And then the more you overpay on free agents, the more limited you are moving forward.

"It is what it is" is accurate, but what a mess!
Amazing how many people  
Breeze_94 : 2/21/2018 12:46 pm : link
are losing their mind over signing a depth guy at guard
RE: Matt  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:47 pm : link
In comment 13838112 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
So Norwell is our Stone. We still need our Parker and Thomas.


(Brown, not Thomas)
RE: Amazing how many people  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13838121 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
are losing their mind over signing a depth guy at guard


Who is losing their mind? So someone doesn't agree with a move and that equates with "losing their mind"? Strange.
We  
AcidTest : 2/21/2018 12:51 pm : link
signed him in November of last year. Nobody else wanted him before then. I thought he would retire as well.
RE: robbieballs2003  
Keith : 2/21/2018 12:54 pm : link
In comment 13838046 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We're talking about a lineman who both the Browns and Saints recently cut.


The Saints have a really good OL, IMO.
I'm sure it's  
Pete in MD : 2/21/2018 12:55 pm : link
just a vet minimum contract.

If you put any stock in PFF, he was the highest rated o-lineman on the roster last year.
It is what it is  
JonC : 2/21/2018 12:56 pm : link
and the new regime won't likely be able to upgrade the OL in optimal fashion in one offseason.

There's going to be stopgaps, vets who still need to earn a roster spot over young prospects, and plenty of turnover will occur.
RE: robbieballs2003  
Dodge : 2/21/2018 12:57 pm : link
In comment 13838062 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
He's not very good. And he's near the end of the line.

But hell yeah! Great signing!


Do you often say Hell yeah! and Great signing! when the Giants add depth players?

Jeeze.
RE: RE: Matt  
Matt in SGS : 2/21/2018 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13838125 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13838112 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


So Norwell is our Stone. We still need our Parker and Thomas.



(Brown, not Thomas)


Yes, agreed, right now those guys aren't on the roster. The X factor remains the draft however. Who is to say they don't find their next Chris Snee in the 2nd round?
My guess is that the Giants will monitor those veteran cuts and bring in guys on short deals and slot them in. If you find another Snee early on, you can bank on them starting day 1. Else, if they are drafting a guy late and/or signing UDFA, don't make the same mistake and put them out there as they have done the past few years. Not everyone is David Diehl.
Our O line was better at the end of the season with him playing  
Chip : 2/21/2018 1:05 pm : link
Definitely a stop gap player which you need when you are replacing most of the OL. Pugh and richburg should be gone and we need to draft at least 3 OL. Someone has to be the leader in the position room.
RE: RE: The only problem with signing aging veterans as backups occurs when  
Brown Recluse : 2/21/2018 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13838110 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 13838099 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


they have to start.

Okay for a game or two until they end up starting for half a season.



We said that about Lomas Brown and Glenn Parker too.


Lomas Brown didn't play here for very long but he's one of my all time favorite free agent signings. If I remember correctly, he had some serious back issues and he played his ass off. He was hungry. There was one play I'll always remember, I wish I could remember who the defensive player was...but that guy jumped up to try and bat down a pass and Lomas knocked him right no his ass.
Eric  
Bill2 : 2/21/2018 1:08 pm : link
it is a big mess right now.

This could get corrected and improved but right now that's the future. Right now, there may not be any single deserving NFL OL starter at any position on the current roster.
Brown Recluse  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 1:10 pm : link
Both Parker and Brown played their butts off and performed well. Brown really tweaked his back in the NFC Championship Game if I recall.

That said, both Parker and Brown got their asses kicked in the Super Bowl. If I recall correctly, much the pressure Collins had in his face came at the expense of those two.
Camp Fodder  
Dnew15 : 2/21/2018 1:10 pm : link
can be signed in Feb too...
RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13838169 Bill2 said:
Quote:
it is a big mess right now.

This could get corrected and improved but right now that's the future. Right now, there may not be any single deserving NFL OL starter at any position on the current roster.


It's going to be a huge mess if Shurmur and his new OL coach say, "I don't want Flowers on this team."

I'm not saying that is going to happen, but it it does, we're facing an almost insurmountable task of cobbling together a viable OL in one offseason (Yes, I know the Vikings did it, but that's exceptionally rare).
Flowers isn't even the weakest link on the OL now  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/21/2018 1:15 pm : link
If you can improve the rest of it, you can get by, I think. He wasn't the worst lineman on the team last season. Just identify what he can do best. It's probably not 'pass protection'.
Eric....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/21/2018 1:19 pm : link
....but didn't Greco perform at a high level in the Giants' Dirty Dancing Super Bowl commercial? Don't underestimate the importance of that!
RE: Flowers isn't even the weakest link on the OL now  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 1:20 pm : link
In comment 13838179 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
If you can improve the rest of it, you can get by, I think. He wasn't the worst lineman on the team last season. Just identify what he can do best. It's probably not 'pass protection'.


Much depends on how much we take Shurmur at his word.

Publicly, Shumur said team culture is exceptionally important and he won't tolerate football players who are not passionate about the game and HATE losing.

If you take him for his word, he is going to dump players who he thinks are not committed to the game.

Is Flowers one of those?

Objectively speaking, Flowers started off the season playing like crap, really settled down for the bulk of the middle of the season, and then began to fall apart late again.
RE: Eric....  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 1:20 pm : link
In comment 13838187 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
....but didn't Greco perform at a high level in the Giants' Dirty Dancing Super Bowl commercial? Don't underestimate the importance of that!


Arguably the high point of the 2017 season.
What does Flem think of this?  
est1986 : 2/21/2018 1:22 pm : link
Just kidding... the only way this is a good move is if it some how leads to the cutting of John Jerry... seriously.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/21/2018 1:24 pm : link
60+ comments on a John Greco thread?

Wowzas.
He's a veteran, backup, hog Mollie.  
old man : 2/21/2018 1:28 pm : link
Quite likely, just 1 of 90 for the moment, who can work with the young hogmollies on techniques and bringing them up to speed in the Shurmurs/ Hunter system.
That's the summary...oh, and likely moves John Jerry to Oakland with New house or Cindy and the best RT in the NFL to restore the best right side of an OL the NFL has ever seen ;-).
RE: .  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13838198 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
60+ comments on a John Greco thread?

Wowzas.


Well, we have a way to before we get into Bitcoin discussion numbers.
John Greco  
Big_Pete : 2/21/2018 1:49 pm : link
I think Greco is a solid depth guy and experienced veteran competition.

We should not overlook the fact that Hal Hunter coached Greco in 2016 so maybe he will help the transition to the new regime.

I also think Greco could be used to help mentor and provide leadership for our llargelt young. That could be particularly valuable should Pugh, Richburg and Fluker find greener pastures elsewhere.

I see the Greco as a cheap way of stabilising the Oli e depth ahead of free agency who at the very leasy will add value in training camp

RE: ...  
jvm52106 : 2/21/2018 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13838011 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Re-signing a 33-year old guard?

Makes little sense to me.


Cheap and a veteran... Can't have all cheap undrafted FA's...
RE: RE: Flowers isn't even the weakest link on the OL now  
Percy : 2/21/2018 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13838189 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13838179 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


If you can improve the rest of it, you can get by, I think. He wasn't the worst lineman on the team last season. Just identify what he can do best. It's probably not 'pass protection'.



Much depends on how much we take Shurmur at his word.

Publicly, Shumur said team culture is exceptionally important and he won't tolerate football players who are not passionate about the game and HATE losing.

If you take him for his word, he is going to dump players who he thinks are not committed to the game.

Is Flowers one of those?

Objectively speaking, Flowers started off the season playing like crap, really settled down for the bulk of the middle of the season, and then began to fall apart late again.

Flowers may not have been the weakest link, but surely he's been the most disappointing player on the OL.
Kind of what I'm expecting  
AcesUp : 2/21/2018 1:52 pm : link
One big splash signing, I'm hoping it's Norwell, these bottom of the roster vet types, a premium draft pick and maybe 1-2 mid-level last contract FAs (Sullivan, an LT cap casualty, etc). I actually see this line getting older in 2018 to stop the bleeding while they slowly rebuild at the same time.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/21/2018 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13838218 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13838198 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


60+ comments on a John Greco thread?

Wowzas.



Well, we have a way to before we get into Bitcoin discussion numbers.


Touche!
Eric  
Thegratefulhead : 2/21/2018 1:54 pm : link
Isn't it about time you write something now that all the coaches are hired and we are bout hit free agency. Take all the things Gettleman, Shurmur and Mara have said and put it all in one place with your outlook on what that means and what free agency/draft you think or hope looks like for the Gmen in 2018. Anyways I am interested in your take, you write well.
RE: RE: Amazing how many people  
jvm52106 : 2/21/2018 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13838127 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13838121 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


are losing their mind over signing a depth guy at guard



Who is losing their mind? So someone doesn't agree with a move and that equates with "losing their mind"? Strange.


I will say you do seem more upset about this than I would expect. He might not even make the team but a veteran who knows the coach and the system that will be installed is very important.
I really don't get the  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2018 1:58 pm : link
frustration over possibly getting Norwell. Despite the fact that Reese fucked up the OL...isn't getting one of the best interior lineman in the NFL a good thing? It's not like we are strapped for cash. We can afford this guy, and he's a pro bowler, and our OL sucks. What is the issue here?
My greatest concern with this signing is...  
BLUATHRT : 2/21/2018 1:59 pm : link
how does the FO view the crop of FA and draft eligible lineman, that they prioritized making this move? I know it's low hanging fruit, but would seem you'd wait to see what else you could tun over before making a move for a guy that wasn't going to be high on any one else's priority list.
RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13838244 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Isn't it about time you write something now that all the coaches are hired and we are bout hit free agency. Take all the things Gettleman, Shurmur and Mara have said and put it all in one place with your outlook on what that means and what free agency/draft you think or hope looks like for the Gmen in 2018. Anyways I am interested in your take, you write well.


We're in a weird spot right now. I've seen a number of the beat writers generate space-filler articles because they have to, but there isn't much to discuss right now.

Because the Giants were forced to wait on Shumur (and Patricia and McDaniels), everything got pushed back by weeks. Then Shurmur had to wait until the OC spot got settled.

Right now, my understanding (based on public and private material) is that Shurmur and his staff are hunkered down evaluating everything. Because we have a new GM and new head coach with a team that was one of the worst in team history, I think it is very difficult to anticipate what is going to happen. I think free agency could be very wild. Not as exciting as 2005 or 2016 with all of the big names, but just in terms of sheer numbers and who stays and who goes. The discussion on draft on the other hand will get tedious. There are only so many players in discussion for the #2 spot and we will continue to see daily threads on the same player. (Thoughts will evolve but the names will be the same so many people will get burned out on those discussions).

I will do a free agent preview in a week or so but it will mainly point out the serious roster issues and related opportunities and/or problems.
jvm52106  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 2:08 pm : link
I'm not upset. But I don't see the upside on this. I could swear I read a blurb at the end of the season that this guy was considering retiring. I guarantee that 95 percent of Giants fans don't even know who John Greco is. If this was a guy who we added last year who ended up starting a couple of games and did decently, maybe I could bringing him back until someone beat him out in camp/preseason. But this is a guy who didn't even start for our injury-plagued and talent-deficient offensive line. And again, he's going to be 33 next month. We can bring 90 players into the offseason program. This re-signing doesn't make much sense to me.

Now if John Greco comes in and ends up being a valuable starter or back-up, I'll gladly eat my words. What he does bring is versatility. He can play center, guard, and tackle.
I'll be that guy  
Sy'56 : 2/21/2018 2:11 pm : link
He was decent for us in his limited time.
RE: I really don't get the  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 2:15 pm : link
In comment 13838250 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
frustration over possibly getting Norwell. Despite the fact that Reese fucked up the OL...isn't getting one of the best interior lineman in the NFL a good thing? It's not like we are strapped for cash. We can afford this guy, and he's a pro bowler, and our OL sucks. What is the issue here?


I don't think our salary cap position is as rosy as some think. We have a ton of unsigned players (many of whom won't be re-signed). But once you start signing/re-signing players, available cap space evaporates quickly. We've got some serious $$$ invested in the QB, DL, and DB positions. (WR too although I expect we'll part ways with Marshall and probably Harris).

If we sign Norwell, and I expect we'll make a serious run at him, we're going to over-pay. That's OK. But you have to be careful with how many of those over-pay contracts are on the roster. Eli is vastly overpaid right now. So are both our DE's. You have guys like John Jerry and Rhett Ellison making serious coin. Beckham's contract is going to be a killer.
RE: I'll be that guy  
Big_Pete : 2/21/2018 2:15 pm : link
In comment 13838266 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
He was decent for us in his limited time.


That sums it up nicely Sy
RE: I'll be that guy  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 2:17 pm : link
In comment 13838266 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
He was decent for us in his limited time.


I was waiting for Sy. I remember his comments from one of his reviews.
RE: RE: I really don't get the  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2018 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13838270 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:


If we sign Norwell, and I expect we'll make a serious run at him, we're going to over-pay. That's OK. But you have to be careful with how many of those over-pay contracts are on the roster. Eli is vastly overpaid right now. So are both our DE's. You have guys like John Jerry and Rhett Ellison making serious coin. Beckham's contract is going to be a killer.

Good points...if Norwell was on the other side of 30 I would say it would be an interesting decision. Being that he's 26 and just getting to his prime, I think it's a slam dunk move. Eli most likely coming off the books after this year or next, and i have a feeling that the DEs will restructure or possibly be a cap casualty eventually. Gettleman and Shurmur are pretty much dead set on fixing this OL. If they don't land Norwell, it'll be a pretty big blow to that plan.
One thing  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 2:22 pm : link
to keep in mind with Greco, is he has played a little center. So as posted above with John Jerry, this could be a more telling move if the Giants have come to some conclusions about Richburg and/or Jones.
ryanmkeane  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 2:23 pm : link
In more ways than one (Matt's comments above), the Norwell situation is similar to Ron Stone back in the late 1990s.
hopefully this signing plus offseason additions to come...  
Torrag : 2/21/2018 2:26 pm : link
...signifies the end of the John Jerry era.
From age ability wise it doesn't make sense but....  
edavisiii : 2/21/2018 2:26 pm : link
He could serve as a mentor to the young lineman. Even if he gets cut at the end of camp, they probably think it would be good to have him in the meeting room. Knows the system and the coaches. Might serve as a 1/2 player, 1/2 coach during camp and if the injury bug hits, you never know.
Not concerned (yet)  
Gross Blau Oberst : 2/21/2018 2:40 pm : link
When Grecco makes the final 53 man roster, then I will be concerned.

Grecco could just be a transition player through training camp, as part of the adjustment to the Shurmur schemes.

If Grecco make the 53 man roster and is considered "Key" depth, then it will be time to worry.

Until then, the team is just filling out the bottom end of the roster until Free Agency and the draft arrive. Bodies are needed for minicamps too.
RE: jvm52106  
GiantTuff1 : 2/21/2018 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13838264 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I'm not upset. But I don't see the upside on this. I could swear I read a blurb at the end of the season that this guy was considering retiring. I guarantee that 95 percent of Giants fans don't even know who John Greco is. If this was a guy who we added last year who ended up starting a couple of games and did decently, maybe I could bringing him back until someone beat him out in camp/preseason. But this is a guy who didn't even start for our injury-plagued and talent-deficient offensive line. And again, he's going to be 33 next month. We can bring 90 players into the offseason program. This re-signing doesn't make much sense to me.

Now if John Greco comes in and ends up being a valuable starter or back-up, I'll gladly eat my words. What he does bring is versatility. He can play center, guard, and tackle.


So what if he was considering retirement at one point.

Nick Foles was.

Larry Fitzgerald for the past several seasons.

When you get into your 30s thoughts like this run through your mind, but if he signed the contract you know he is committed to seeing it through. That's what matters.

And I whole heartedly agree with Matt that veterans, even if declined, are better than never-have-been projects who can completely non-start an entire offense. I'd rather have guys who have done it and hope they can turn it up enough like Lomas Brown and Glenn Party did.
GiantTuff1  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 3:03 pm : link
I think you are getting into odd territory when you start comparing John Greco to Larry Fitzgerald.
Eric  
afann : 2/21/2018 3:25 pm : link
Just because Greco didnt play over our crap OL doesnt mean they were better. Do you think you think the old coaching staff was any good at evaluating players? I mean BM wanted Geno over Eli. They were reluctant to try different players on the OL.
I find all these discussions about the OL  
Reb8thVA : 2/21/2018 3:35 pm : link
incredibly frustrating because last year at draft time we could see where all this was heading. Its just a gnawing reminder of how poorly this organization was run the last 5-6 years.



RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/21/2018 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13838358 afann said:
Quote:
Just because Greco didnt play over our crap OL doesnt mean they were better. Do you think you think the old coaching staff was any good at evaluating players? I mean BM wanted Geno over Eli. They were reluctant to try different players on the OL.


afann... No it doesn't. But if you combine that with the fact that he was cut twice recently, including by the Browns and well past his prime, the odds on him being part of the solution to this line are a bit long in my opinion.

I guess I didn't realize there were so many Giants fans praying we'd re-sign John Greco.
People keep mentioning  
Gman11 : 2/21/2018 3:54 pm : link
Greco mentoring the younger players. I don't know about that. He's not a superstar that is never in jeopardy of being cut. In a business as cut throat as the NFL, if I'm him I don't know if I'm going to mentor some kid who's going to put me out of a job.
Not impressed. They should have went after his brother  
ThatLimerickGuy : 2/21/2018 4:09 pm : link
RE: RE: Eric....  
M.S. : 2/21/2018 4:21 pm : link
In comment 13838191 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13838187 Emlen'sGremlins said:


Quote:


....but didn't Greco perform at a high level in the Giants' Dirty Dancing Super Bowl commercial? Don't underestimate the importance of that!



Arguably the high point of the 2017 season.

It WAS the highpoint of the season!
Kirwan said he spoke with one of Greco's coaches  
Racer : 2/21/2018 4:44 pm : link
at a 'previous stop' (had to be Bob Wylie at Cleveland in 2016) who was 'unhappy with management for not wanting to keep him. Tough guy, you can trust him, quality depth.'

On 2/21 I can deal with some more of that even if he's 33. Get pissed when nobody is behind him on the depth chart of the final 53.
Greco  
Dragon : 2/21/2018 4:51 pm : link
This is the kind of move made after FA and the draft not to impressed with any of the roster moves made so far point.
I think this is a smart re-sign  
adamg : 2/21/2018 4:51 pm : link
Cheap quality depth
RE: Greco  
arcarsenal : 2/21/2018 6:55 pm : link
In comment 13838468 Dragon said:
Quote:
This is the kind of move made after FA and the draft not to impressed with any of the roster moves made so far point.


Can we have dorgan back and get rid of you permanently?

How many teams have made roster moves in the last 3 weeks that have "impressed" you?

The real FA signings haven't even fucking started yet.

Good lord.
A first.  
XBRONX : 2/21/2018 7:32 pm : link
the word quality in a sentence mentioning Greco.
I like the signing  
mrvax : 2/21/2018 7:33 pm : link
if it's vet minimum. He's a plug-in backup guard for a year.
Let's look it like this  
DavidinBMNY : 2/21/2018 9:11 pm : link
Greco exhibits the qualities Shurmer/Gettleman want. They know him. The OL coach knows him.

He has the makeup and he has experience.

If he's a 16 game starter for us, that's a bad smell.

As a depth player who can challenge for a spot on the roster and hopefully be a spot starter he's ok.

There isn't a glut of OL talent out there and those folks aren't free until Mid March anyway.

Is there someone we could actually sign right now from another team who is better?

Let's hope Fluker is next.
RE: jvm52106  
jbeintherockies : 2/21/2018 9:11 pm : link
In comment 13838264 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I'm not upset. But I don't see the upside on this.

What have we learned? Because of the reduced practice time that teams have since the new collective bargaining agreement veteran offensive linemen are more valuable.

He is a serviceable, experienced offensive lineman. You need those. This signing reminds me of the Grey Ruegamer signing back in 2006.

Eric you sound panicked. Never  
section125 : 2/21/2018 10:00 pm : link
"heard" you like this. It's February. Greco is one of 90 guys. If someone better comes along, he can be let go. Right now he is an NFL caliber player, lower caliber maybe, but still someone who can play in the NFL.
You still need 90 guys by training camp and I guarantee you they will have a 4th QB who is a camp arm only, and just like there will be several camp OL/OG. All fill in practice time but ultimately will be let go. Whether they sign now or June is irrelevant.

Now just for shits and giggles, just because somebody was let go by Cleveland doesn't mean the are a bad player because Cleveland wouldn't know a good player if it hit them in the face.

And BTW, the oline at the end of the year was playing better than earlier in the year with 4 and 5 different players. Greco was one of them.
What Matt SGS said  
HomerJones45 : 2/21/2018 11:31 pm : link
there are going to be a bushel of OL acquired- rookies, UDFA, draft picks, over-the-hill vets, other teams' cuts- in the hopes we can sift through the bushel and come up with five that can start.
RE: Brown Recluse  
Milton : 2/22/2018 4:57 am : link
In comment 13838079 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I guess I'd just rather give one of the 90 available roster spots to a younger player, even an undrafted one.
Until there is a draft, there isn't an available roster spot for a drafted prospect let alone an undrafted one. I'm guessing Greco signed for the vet minimum including the subsidy (and at this point there is no reason to believe anything other than that). This is a non-story.
RE: Eric you sound panicked. Never  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/22/2018 7:45 am : link
In comment 13838701 section125 said:
Quote:
"heard" you like this. It's February. Greco is one of 90 guys. If someone better comes along, he can be let go. Right now he is an NFL caliber player, lower caliber maybe, but still someone who can play in the NFL.
You still need 90 guys by training camp and I guarantee you they will have a 4th QB who is a camp arm only, and just like there will be several camp OL/OG. All fill in practice time but ultimately will be let go. Whether they sign now or June is irrelevant.

Now just for shits and giggles, just because somebody was let go by Cleveland doesn't mean the are a bad player because Cleveland wouldn't know a good player if it hit them in the face.

And BTW, the oline at the end of the year was playing better than earlier in the year with 4 and 5 different players. Greco was one of them.


Not sure how being disappointed in a roster move equates with "panic"... methinks your are reading far too much into my comments. I simply don't understand this roster move unless Greco has more in the tank than the last three coaching staffs he played for let on.
Backups are backups for a reason  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/22/2018 9:09 am : link
because they're not good enough to start. I don't really see what there is to be disappointed about. They weren't going to sign Josh Sitton yesterday.
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