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| .... “I had a conversation with Mr. Gettleman and kind of told him how I felt and my abilities as a quarterback,” Webb said last week after a throwing session with a group of college players preparing for the draft. “I think there are enough people around the facility that believe in me and believe in my work ethic and believe in my ability to play quarterback one day for this franchise. “I want them to know that I’m here to be the best teammate possible and work very hard. I know we have a high pick in the draft. But nobody really knows but two people -- that is coach Shurmur and Mr. Gettleman. So there can be a lot of guessing and stuff like that.” .... |
Moreover, people need to remember how Davis Webb's stock rose before last year's draft. I submit for your consideration this lengthy CBS Sports article on Davis Webb:
From April 17, 2017 - ( New Window )
Here's to hoping Webb grades out similar to or better than the draftee QBs.
All that said, the objective best case scenario for the Giants is that they don't have to pick a quarterback and Webb is able to take over for Eli effectively.
I still think it's better than even odds we leave that draft with Darnold.
Here's to hoping Webb grades out similar to or better than the draftee QBs.
I think the pinball machine offense scenario is:
1) Draft Barkley
2) Trade back up into the first round and draft Lamar Jackson
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to roll with Eli & Webb, can you imagine the effect on the offense? With an improved Oline and Barkley, I really see the scoreboard lighting up like a pinball machine.
Here's to hoping Webb grades out similar to or better than the draftee QBs.
I think the pinball machine offense scenario is:
1) Draft Barkley
2) Trade back up into the first round and draft Lamar Jackson
Keep in mind what you said about having 1-2 backup QBs similar to Jackson- they don't grow on trees. But the addition of both Jackson and Barkley would really be nothing short of amazing. And fun.
You will have failed.
And if you pass on Darnold and he turns out to be a franchise QB and Webb turns out like most 3rd round QBs then you will have failed as well. Failure is always an option.
Webb not only did not play in the regular season, but he hardly practiced in training camp or played in the preseason.
If you go into the draft saying you are comfortable with Eli and Webb moving forward, you are taking a huge gamble.
(That all said, I'm rooting for Webb and like everything about him.)
I agree, well said. It's a huge gamble.
*Webb is a hot name with some of the people I get to talk with…and others think he won’t ever be a starter. Nobody denies the talent, but he has a ways to go. I’ve watched every game of his from 2016 and he does the same things week in and week out that bother me. He has to completely change his game and while I think it is possible, it’s simply unlikely.
Upside Pro Comparison: Brock Osweiler – CLE
He was never given a chance to show anything.
I don't know how the Giants skip on a QB at #2 and feel comfortable with Web based on the above.
The concerning thing to me is, he works very hard and yet "he does the same thing week in and week out".
Webb seems like a great guy and I love his work ethic, but I don't want "Brock Osweiler" starting for the Giants....
If so, it wasn't enough to beat out Geno Smith for the back up QB position. It wasn't enough to even be in the active game roster until the season finale.
I wonder if both the coach and GM have asked Eli's opinion about Webb. If only because how much they have worked together. They do seem to spend a lot of off season time working out.
My issue with going somewhere other than, for example, Rosen or Darnold at 2 is if Webb proves to not be the guy, then the NYG are F'ed at QB moving past Eli. If/when top guys come out, the NYG likely won't be 3 win bad and would then need to sell off the farm to move up into position to acquire a guy down the road.
Webb checks a lot of boxes and the intangibles are near top notch. Let's see what he has.
If Webb checks so many boxes, why did he fall into the 3rd round?
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of Webb), then you've blown the draft. Even if you can trade Darnold for a pick, you'll never get the return of a #2 pick in the draft. And yeah, that probably means a Barkley level player).
You will have failed.
And if you pass on Darnold and he turns out to be a franchise QB and Webb turns out like most 3rd round QBs then you will have failed as well. Failure is always an option.
This latter scenario would be a MUCH BIGGER FAILURE.
The type of failure the Cleveland Browns have repeated. How many high 1st round QBs have they passed on because they already drafted Joe Blow in the late first or 2nd a year or 2 before?
I think it's crazy to put all our eggs in the basket of a 3rd round pick who didn't play a down last year. If he fails, it will set us back for years.
QB is WAY too important to screw around with. When you have a QB you can fill in the rest of the roster, but if you don't have a QB, you don't have shit.
Yeah sure sometimes you can get one in later rounds, but the odds go down significantly. You shouldn't count on it. Look at the teams that have been looking for YEARS!
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In comment 13839043 Bill L said:
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of Webb), then you've blown the draft. Even if you can trade Darnold for a pick, you'll never get the return of a #2 pick in the draft. And yeah, that probably means a Barkley level player).
You will have failed.
And if you pass on Darnold and he turns out to be a franchise QB and Webb turns out like most 3rd round QBs then you will have failed as well. Failure is always an option.
This latter scenario would be a MUCH BIGGER FAILURE.
The type of failure the Cleveland Browns have repeated. How many high 1st round QBs have they passed on because they already drafted Joe Blow in the late first or 2nd a year or 2 before?
I think it's crazy to put all our eggs in the basket of a 3rd round pick who didn't play a down last year. If he fails, it will set us back for years.
Unless we suck again next year and are picking in the top 5 again next off-season.
My biggest issue... and I've seen it repeatedly stated on this site dozens of times... is those saying 'We won't be picking this high again!'. Why not? None of us expected to be picking this high THIS off-season. Point being, none of us know what the future holds. We all HOPE that we won't be picking this high again for another 30 years... but not one person here can guarantee we won't be right back here this time next year arguing which QB to take since we're AGAIN picking in the top 5.
The knock on him was that he needed to develop and wouldn't be ready last year.
Presumably, he has developed. He may not be ready this year but he is a different QB to some degree than the one that walked into camp last year.
He may not be good enough but that is also true of everyone that people are salivating about right now.
Webb checks a lot of boxes and the intangibles are near top notch. Let's see what he has.
It's nice to know i'm not the only one with a gut feeling on Webb. I've seen a lot of respected posters on here rightfully point to the fact that he was taken as a project. They are right about that, but they also seem to write him off because of that fact.
Every time I hear about this kid from the press it's nothing but positive stuff about having the right attitude/work ethic. If you have the right makeup mentally and can throw the ball and read a defense then all that is left is to develop yourself. Lets see if he can.
People seem to be saying its a disaster if Rosen/Darnold bust so Giants should pick X.
News flash- hey can bust too
Barkley can bust. Nelson can bust, Chubb can bust. Every single player in this draft can bust.
You can trade down and get extra picks and they all can bust. Browns havent nailed their trade downs. Rams didnt make out well from RG3 trade down.
Its the 2 pick. If we blow it, its a disaster. No matter what position we draft. No guarantees, Every player can bust.
I get a kick out of arm chair fans...even knowledgeable ones, who are so sure about this guy or that guy. The Giants will make the right decision. The #2 pick is no place to take a flyer.
So who are the QBs coming out for 2019 fellas ?
Furthermore, most people even so-called experts thought our roster was good enough last year to compete at least for playoffs, even possibly SB. The main problems last year were horrible coaching/playcalling and OL. Those issues can be corrected pretty quickly.
I don't think there's any way they come close to drafting this high next year and hopefully not for a LONG time. And even if we did, there's no guarantee there will be a QB worth drafting.
History shows there have been plenty of years when there were NO franchise QBs. There appear to be at least 2 this year. We should not pass up this opportunity, imo.
The knock on him was that he needed to develop and wouldn't be ready last year.
Presumably, he has developed. He may not be ready this year but he is a different QB to some degree than the one that walked into camp last year.
He may not be good enough but that is also true of everyone that people are salivating about right now.
I am of the firm conviction that you can only adequately judge a QB by real game action, and most preferably, in games that count.
The Giants have ZERO idea on the professional level of how Webb will handle an offense down by 4 points with 2 minutes to go in the game. Hell, they have no idea how he can handle an offense playing the Cleveland Browns up by 30 points. The point is, one of the major screw ups last year was not getting Webb ready to play at least some games.
You're looking at it the wrong way. It's not, lets draft a QB because Webb is an unknown. It's....Webb is an unknown, that shouldn't prevent us from drafting a QB that we believe can be a franchise QB.
why is competition good at EVERY position except the MOST IMPORTANT position?
Why should we just assume a 3rd round pick is our future franchise QB and just hand him the job with no competition?
Is it because Reese did such a great f*cking job with 3rd round picks? Is it because 3rd round QBs have such a great track record of success?
DG, Shurm and Shula weren't here last year, how would they know so much more about Webb than they do Darnold?
So a few people in house know a little more about Webb than they do a couple much higher regarded prospects, we should just give him the job?
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last year is laughable. And they clearly know a lot more about him than any of the QBs in the draft.
The knock on him was that he needed to develop and wouldn't be ready last year.
Presumably, he has developed. He may not be ready this year but he is a different QB to some degree than the one that walked into camp last year.
He may not be good enough but that is also true of everyone that people are salivating about right now.
I am of the firm conviction that you can only adequately judge a QB by real game action, and most preferably, in games that count.
The Giants have ZERO idea on the professional level of how Webb will handle an offense down by 4 points with 2 minutes to go in the game. Hell, they have no idea how he can handle an offense playing the Cleveland Browns up by 30 points. The point is, one of the major screw ups last year was not getting Webb ready to play at least some games.
That's true. It's also absolutely true about the guys at the top of the draft. Where we might disagree is whether there is more risk in the guy you have had in your camp or the one who is initially higher rated but you've only had interviews with. There are no sure things in the NFL other than that most teams end the season unhappy.
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And I'm not sure any of the 2018 QBs are worth taking with him in mind. If one of them jumped off the grade sheet, then you push Webb to the side a bit. But I don't see that being the case, so might as well use #2 to pick a premium talent at another position, compete with Eli for 2018, and let Webb show what he progressed on in training camp/preseason.
Webb checks a lot of boxes and the intangibles are near top notch. Let's see what he has.
Why are flip flopping on Webb. You have said many times that you do not think he will amount to anything more then a backup QB.
And the gap between him and the guys in the draft isn't big enough to use the #2 pick on a QB. As of now, Mayfield may be the only one I consider at 2. Hate to put it this way...but lets see if NYG got lucky with Webb and use that #2 spot on a premium talent elsewhere.
One of them, Foles, might not even be a starter again next year.
But we should pass up this golden opportunity to draft high a potential franchise QB in what most consider a strong QB draft...
because we drafted a guy towards the end of the 3rd round last year.
1. None of the top rated QBs jump off the paper as a can't miss prospect. So therefore, they may not be the best value at #2.
2. Giants have a lot of holes to fill and need more impact players, whether offense or defense. (BPA?)
3. Davis Webb has been part of the organization for a year and at the very least has shown the arm strength and intangibles you would like from an NFL QB.
4. Considering all those factors, maybe QB @ #2 is not the best bet, maybe QB in rounds 2-4 is better.
I also have a question. You may not have gotten to him yet, but what are your thoughts on Mike White? I think he has upside.
That is pretty much it.
Gun to my head, Webb won't become a star QB. I think he will be a career backup/solid guy. A la Nick Foles?
But I am willing to see what he has this year, pass on a QB (not definite yet) and take #2, go with a premium talent elsewhere. And yes, Barkley is my guy.
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to roll with Eli & Webb, can you imagine the effect on the offense? With an improved Oline and Barkley, I really see the scoreboard lighting up like a pinball machine.
Here's to hoping Webb grades out similar to or better than the draftee QBs.
I think the pinball machine offense scenario is:
1) Draft Barkley
2) Trade back up into the first round and draft Lamar Jackson
It is mind boggling to me how people do not see this as the best scenario period! I doubt we would even have to trade back thanks to Polian's ridiculous analysis of LJ. Jackson would have a minimum of a year maybe 2 years to develop. LJ, SB, EE, SS and OBJ!?!?! I dare anyone to explain to me how you would stop that combination. Especially with a HC that knows how to get the best out his QB. Sick.
If the Giants don't see a significant difference in skills between Webb and the top QB's this year, then it makes a ton of sense to pass on the QB and take someone like Barkley.
Personally, if I'm the Browns. I take Barkley no. 1, and then take my shot at whichever QB might be left at 4 if no one is jumping off the page.
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But I read your stance as follows:
1. None of the top rated QBs jump off the paper as a can't miss prospect. So therefore, they may not be the best value at #2.
2. Giants have a lot of holes to fill and need more impact players, whether offense or defense. (BPA?)
3. Davis Webb has been part of the organization for a year and at the very least has shown the arm strength and intangibles you would like from an NFL QB.
4. Considering all those factors, maybe QB @ #2 is not the best bet, maybe QB in rounds 2-4 is better.
I also have a question. You may not have gotten to him yet, but what are your thoughts on Mike White? I think he has upside.
That is pretty much it.
Gun to my head, Webb won't become a star QB. I think he will be a career backup/solid guy. A la Nick Foles?
But I am willing to see what he has this year, pass on a QB (not definite yet) and take #2, go with a premium talent elsewhere. And yes, Barkley is my guy.
So let’s say they draft Barkley. And they still finish 5-11 or 6-10 and again inside the top 10. Webb plays a little later in the year and is underwhelming. Do the NYG commit to him in 2019? Or do they then go all in on a QB at the top of the draft? And, speaking of 2019, at this point last winter, most of us knew Darnold and Rosen were going to be draft eligible for 2018. Is 2019 a bad QB year?
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But I read your stance as follows:
1. None of the top rated QBs jump off the paper as a can't miss prospect. So therefore, they may not be the best value at #2.
2. Giants have a lot of holes to fill and need more impact players, whether offense or defense. (BPA?)
3. Davis Webb has been part of the organization for a year and at the very least has shown the arm strength and intangibles you would like from an NFL QB.
4. Considering all those factors, maybe QB @ #2 is not the best bet, maybe QB in rounds 2-4 is better.
I also have a question. You may not have gotten to him yet, but what are your thoughts on Mike White? I think he has upside.
That is pretty much it.
Gun to my head, Webb won't become a star QB. I think he will be a career backup/solid guy. A la Nick Foles?
But I am willing to see what he has this year, pass on a QB (not definite yet) and take #2, go with a premium talent elsewhere. And yes, Barkley is my guy.
Sy, thank you.
I will be very interested in your final QB rankings. I am getting the sense that because all the QBs have their warts, even the top ones, that there is not going to be a dramatic drop-off between the top tier and the next level.
I don't completely agree with those who say you have to take a QB at #2 because it's not often the Giants have a pick this high. I would say, you have to pick a franchise altering player at #2 because it's not often you pick this high. A swing and a miss at #2 is terrible for the franchise. You have to go in with the conviction that you are picking the player you expect to be a star player for you.
Call me crazy, but given the evolution of offense that is now seeping into the pros from the college ranks, I'm not sure the franchise QB position is going to look the same as it has previously nor mean quite as much. Not that having your Peyton Mannings or Tom Bradys doesn't give you a better chance to win, but we may find that the gap closes between the top tier and the next level of "good" QBs.
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In comment 13839112 mrvax said:
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to roll with Eli & Webb, can you imagine the effect on the offense? With an improved Oline and Barkley, I really see the scoreboard lighting up like a pinball machine.
Here's to hoping Webb grades out similar to or better than the draftee QBs.
I think the pinball machine offense scenario is:
1) Draft Barkley
2) Trade back up into the first round and draft Lamar Jackson
It is mind boggling to me how people do not see this as the best scenario period! I doubt we would even have to trade back thanks to Polian's ridiculous analysis of LJ. Jackson would have a minimum of a year maybe 2 years to develop. LJ, SB, EE, SS and OBJ!?!?! I dare anyone to explain to me how you would stop that combination. Especially with a HC that knows how to get the best out his QB. Sick.
I'm not a Lamar Jackson fan exactly, but I think this idea has merit. I have no doubt Shurmur and Shula could get a lot out of his skillset. Also, if you fix his footwork, you fix his accuracy problems.
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In comment 13839073 Emil said:
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But I read your stance as follows:
1. None of the top rated QBs jump off the paper as a can't miss prospect. So therefore, they may not be the best value at #2.
2. Giants have a lot of holes to fill and need more impact players, whether offense or defense. (BPA?)
3. Davis Webb has been part of the organization for a year and at the very least has shown the arm strength and intangibles you would like from an NFL QB.
4. Considering all those factors, maybe QB @ #2 is not the best bet, maybe QB in rounds 2-4 is better.
I also have a question. You may not have gotten to him yet, but what are your thoughts on Mike White? I think he has upside.
That is pretty much it.
Gun to my head, Webb won't become a star QB. I think he will be a career backup/solid guy. A la Nick Foles?
But I am willing to see what he has this year, pass on a QB (not definite yet) and take #2, go with a premium talent elsewhere. And yes, Barkley is my guy.
So let’s say they draft Barkley. And they still finish 5-11 or 6-10 and again inside the top 10. Webb plays a little later in the year and is underwhelming. Do the NYG commit to him in 2019? Or do they then go all in on a QB at the top of the draft? And, speaking of 2019, at this point last winter, most of us knew Darnold and Rosen were going to be draft eligible for 2018. Is 2019 a bad QB year?
I think when you get in to that many "if's"....you are playing a dangerous game. Too many things can and will happen.
Focus on 2018, go from there.
Link - ( New Window )
Rosen is another one, great mechanics, fluid player, smart QB, competitive and well rounded but may take too many chances and the shoulder and concussions have to worry you at #2. He's got a smaller frame than you want in someone that tall and durability has been an issue.
Mayfield is the best player of the QBs but the off the field blips and the height may be enough to scare teams off from rolling the dice that high. The NFL doesn't usually buck trends when drafting, the personnel folks are like a skittish pack of deer, one sound and they all take off in the same direction. Mayfield may be the 2nd best or 3rd best player in this draft but he probably slides because he's a hair over 6-0 and he has those dopey blotches on his resume.
For a team that has done almost nothing right for a few years, we absolutely have to hit on this pick. Eli Apple and Erick Flowers look like busts at 10 and 9 which is woeful given how rarely we've picked that high. Now we have the 2nd pick and we cannot roll the dice. I've been on the Barkley train from day one, I still think he goes first and this is all moot but if Cleveland doesn't take him we almost have to. I would actually even consider Nelson at 2, if he's as good as he looks he could be a Larry Allen type of dominator on the OL. I'd sign up for that at #2 but I would not sign up for a QB who may or not have it and has too many question marks in the grading process.
Way too early for any talk like that