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Decision for Eli

GeoMan999 : 2/24/2018 10:21 am
I keep thinking about his End game. Let’s say the Giants draft a QB, but with Eli in 2018 improve greatly (including the offense) and they go 8-8 and are trending up. They keep him and they make the playoffs in 2019 with a solid run.

Eli has to be thinking about this scenario and what the Giants would do. The Chiefs traded their QB in that situation. Eli has a no trade clause, but would another team take him on at 39?

Would the Giants really sit Rosen or Darnold for three years? Would the Giants cut Eli if he and the offense were really trending up?
I don’t think it’s a hard decision  
The_Boss : 2/24/2018 10:30 am : link
IF they draft, say, Rosen or Darnold.
I’m not expecting a competitive year at all. What I think happens is when the hierarchy feels the season is over, they’ll hand things over to the rookie and Eli will have played his last game in NY. The team proceeds to finish 5-11 or 6-10. They then cut him in the spring of 2019. Football is a business and it can be heartless. Eli knows this day is coming.
2020  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 2/24/2018 10:31 am : link
He would be a free agent, no?
I think we should  
joeinpa : 2/24/2018 10:32 am : link
Be pleased that Eli gets his team back this season and a chance to prove he can still do it.

But hard to see a scenario where Giants draft a quarterback at #2 and sit him for two years.



RE: 2020  
The_Boss : 2/24/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 13841260 CoughlinHandsonHips said:
Quote:
He would be a free agent, no?


Yes but they can cut him after next year and not get skull fucked with the cap and dead $$.
i really wish they would try and trade Eli  
GiantsFan84 : 2/24/2018 10:41 am : link
would be best for everyone
There is no decision to be made  
Chip : 2/24/2018 10:51 am : link
he has 2 years left on his contract and he will remain a Giant through next season. He will not play for the Vikings or the Jets like Favre. If we do draft one of the QBs they can learn under Eli like Rogers did with Favre over the next 2 seasons and like Eli if it is not going well in 2019 then one of the kids can take over. Salary cap wise it works out perfectly regarding Beckham. Eli's contract will be gone while Odells is kicking in. It would be shocking if that scerario doesn't play out.
RE: i really wish they would try and trade Eli  
djstat : 2/24/2018 11:09 am : link
In comment 13841273 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
would be best for everyone
ELI HAS NO TRADE CLAUSE.
RE: RE: i really wish they would try and trade Eli  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/24/2018 11:13 am : link
In comment 13841296 djstat said:
Quote:
In comment 13841273 GiantsFan84 said:


Quote:


would be best for everyone

ELI HAS NO TRADE CLAUSE.

So did Giancarlo Stanton. Players with NTCs do get traded.
The idea that a 37 year old QB will be trending up  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/24/2018 11:22 am : link
after two seasons of decline, is wishful thinking. The idea that the upward trend will happen or continue at age 38 or 39 is beyond wishful thinking.

Eli is not going to play forever. This is not a scenario that anyone needs to get too worried about, IMO. He watched his brother suffer through multiple neck surgeries and finish out his career as a shell of himself; I don't see Eli wanting to go down that path. I think there's a 50/50 shot Eli retires after the 2018 season, and an even higher likelihood that he retires after 2019.

If the Giants take a QB at #2, there's going to be enormous pressure to get him on the field. Could he sit for one year? Definitely. Two? Maybe, but it starts to get less likely. Beyond Eli's current contract (which also means extending or re-signing Eli while other star players are going to start to need to be re-signed)? The chances of that are so infinitesimal that it's almost crazy to suggest.
Look here is how it works.  
Giant John : 2/24/2018 11:42 am : link
No one knows better than Eli that he can’t play forever. His contract ends after the 2019 season. If the Giants want to trade him before that it will be because they have someone better to replace him with. Knowing that Eli will either approve a trade or sit his contract. After 2019 I think he retires but that’s his decision.
RE: The idea that a 37 year old QB will be trending up  
M.S. : 2/24/2018 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13841312 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
after two seasons of decline, is wishful thinking. The idea that the upward trend will happen or continue at age 38 or 39 is beyond wishful thinking.

Eli is not going to play forever. This is not a scenario that anyone needs to get too worried about, IMO. He watched his brother suffer through multiple neck surgeries and finish out his career as a shell of himself; I don't see Eli wanting to go down that path. I think there's a 50/50 shot Eli retires after the 2018 season, and an even higher likelihood that he retires after 2019.

If the Giants take a QB at #2, there's going to be enormous pressure to get him on the field. Could he sit for one year? Definitely. Two? Maybe, but it starts to get less likely. Beyond Eli's current contract (which also means extending or re-signing Eli while other star players are going to start to need to be re-signed)? The chances of that are so infinitesimal that it's almost crazy to suggest.

Well played, Sir!
Gatorade  
cosmicj : 2/24/2018 12:03 pm : link
You said it. Good post.
Even Montana finished his career with another team  
superspynyg : 2/24/2018 12:08 pm : link
It’s no shame. Give Eli 2018 and 2019 if he does well and then move on.
RE: The idea that a 37 year old QB will be trending up  
jestersdead : 2/24/2018 12:08 pm : link
In comment 13841312 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
after two seasons of decline, is wishful thinking. The idea that the upward trend will happen or continue at age 38 or 39 is beyond wishful thinking.

Eli is not going to play forever. This is not a scenario that anyone needs to get too worried about, IMO. He watched his brother suffer through multiple neck surgeries and finish out his career as a shell of himself; I don't see Eli wanting to go down that path. I think there's a 50/50 shot Eli retires after the 2018 season, and an even higher likelihood that he retires after 2019.

If the Giants take a QB at #2, there's going to be enormous pressure to get him on the field. Could he sit for one year? Definitely. Two? Maybe, but it starts to get less likely. Beyond Eli's current contract (which also means extending or re-signing Eli while other star players are going to start to need to be re-signed)? The chances of that are so infinitesimal that it's almost crazy to suggest.


2 season decline? Its been 1 year decline and its clearly based on the offensive scheme. His numbers in 2014, 2015 and 2016 were very good
RE: RE: The idea that a 37 year old QB will be trending up  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/24/2018 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13841364 jestersdead said:
Quote:
In comment 13841312 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


after two seasons of decline, is wishful thinking. The idea that the upward trend will happen or continue at age 38 or 39 is beyond wishful thinking.

Eli is not going to play forever. This is not a scenario that anyone needs to get too worried about, IMO. He watched his brother suffer through multiple neck surgeries and finish out his career as a shell of himself; I don't see Eli wanting to go down that path. I think there's a 50/50 shot Eli retires after the 2018 season, and an even higher likelihood that he retires after 2019.

If the Giants take a QB at #2, there's going to be enormous pressure to get him on the field. Could he sit for one year? Definitely. Two? Maybe, but it starts to get less likely. Beyond Eli's current contract (which also means extending or re-signing Eli while other star players are going to start to need to be re-signed)? The chances of that are so infinitesimal that it's almost crazy to suggest.



2 season decline? Its been 1 year decline and its clearly based on the offensive scheme. His numbers in 2014, 2015 and 2016 were very good

Yes, two season decline. 2016 was worse than 2015, and 2017 was worse than 2016. That's two consecutive seasons of decline. See how that works?
Trending up  
GeoMan999 : 2/24/2018 12:33 pm : link
Gettlemen and Shurmer will be trying hard for the offense to be trending up over the next few years and I think its likely that will happen. Eli will definitely be thinking that. There is a very good chance that a 37/38 year old Eli will flourish.....my opinion.

Otherwise, they should move on asap.

Love Eli  
giantstock : 2/24/2018 1:14 pm : link
But I wouldn't sign him this year unless it is real cheap which he would probably never go for.
IMO  
mrvax : 2/24/2018 1:41 pm : link
This will be Eli's final season as a Giant. Either Webb or a draft pick will start in 2019.

Will Eli play elsewhere? It's up to him. He can probably go to a team who only needs him for a year.
RE: RE: RE: The idea that a 37 year old QB will be trending up  
RetroJint : 2/24/2018 1:50 pm : link
In comment 13841370 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13841364 jestersdead said:


Quote:


In comment 13841312 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


after two seasons of decline, is wishful thinking. The idea that the upward trend will happen or continue at age 38 or 39 is beyond wishful thinking.

Eli is not going to play forever. This is not a scenario that anyone needs to get too worried about, IMO. He watched his brother suffer through multiple neck surgeries and finish out his career as a shell of himself; I don't see Eli wanting to go down that path. I think there's a 50/50 shot Eli retires after the 2018 season, and an even higher likelihood that he retires after 2019.

If the Giants take a QB at #2, there's going to be enormous pressure to get him on the field. Could he sit for one year? Definitely. Two? Maybe, but it starts to get less likely. Beyond Eli's current contract (which also means extending or re-signing Eli while other star players are going to start to need to be re-signed)? The chances of that are so infinitesimal that it's almost crazy to suggest.



2 season decline? Its been 1 year decline and its clearly based on the offensive scheme. His numbers in 2014, 2015 and 2016 were very good


Yes, two season decline. 2016 was worse than 2015, and 2017 was worse than 2016. That's two consecutive seasons of decline. See how that works?

GD: From Eli’s perspective , he has the dink & dunk down to the extent where he’s really not taking that much punishment . He’s very healthy. I was watching an old Raider-Chiefs game from the 80s on You Tube. Kenney, the Chiefs’ Q , was getting the shit beat out of him: With the rule changes, that’s not allowed to happen, anymore. Guys still get hurt-sure. Soft tissue pops. Bones break, especially in winter when the playing surface is hard . But , unlike his brother, Eli has yet to incur one truly significant injury playing for the Giants.

My preferred course of action is that they draft his successor at 2, wait for the first 3-game losing streak, then make the change . But guys who remain close generationally to the Giants’ decision makers, like Peter King, hear that Gettleman is going to build up, build around Eli. I think it’s insane. Regardless of how many weapons you surround him with , and how many Tony Bosellis you place in front of him, Eli is still going to face dirty pockets . Shurmur mentioned this when he said “teams want to kill our QB. “. And they still will.
Why not......  
Blue Angel : 2/24/2018 2:14 pm : link
Draft Barkley if possible then, let Eli and Webb battle it out in training camp and I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED that Webb will win the starting QB spot!
RE: Why not......  
mrvax : 2/24/2018 2:28 pm : link
In comment 13841462 Blue Angel said:
Quote:
Draft Barkley if possible then, let Eli and Webb battle it out in training camp and I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED that Webb will win the starting QB spot!


I'd be shocked if Webb won out. In a happy way.
this is why you take barkley at 2  
msh : 2/24/2018 2:37 pm : link
you do what the cowboys did with zeke make barkley the focus running the ball and short passes/screens until the defence needs to pull a safety out of coverage to stop it and when they do play action the ball deep to OBJ,against single coverage thats a miss match they can take advantage of

then use manning until they think webb is ready if you want to draft a QB in round 2 say rudolph or jackson for a bit of insurance then fine and as a second round QB it wont cause the same pressure to play them that a number 2 pick will. if
manning doesnt show that 2017 was down to mac and that lack of proper play calling then you can revisit what you do with manning next offseason his cap number does mean he is likely gone after next season as they need that cap space to extend OBJ and collins

until they sign or draft a #2 WR to replace marshall as lets be honest he was done thats why the jets cut him not because of his cap numbers you use engram as your number 2 WR as he is the biggest of the giants WR as it stands moving him around the formation to get the best match/mismatch they can with ellison used as the inline TE to support the blocking that mac never dealt with even thou the OL was a mess

with all those tactic they dont need to find the next manning to carry the team it was always a problem they put way to much pressure on manning's shoulders over his tenure
they won or lost on his play alone

as several teams have shown eagles,vikings,cowboys,jags etc you can win and be more consistant if you have the running game and a steady QB
that just needs to keep the defence honest makes a play here and there and with the running game you are more often facing 3rd and 1-3 yards and doesnt turn the ball over which was always an issue with eli thou mostly when his receivers didnt run the correct route more than many realise

This is why you don't take Barkley  
giantstock : 2/24/2018 3:39 pm : link
Even though the Cowboys had a super offensive line they've still gone nowhere. They've gone nowhere because they have a mediocre QB.

You can always find mediocre RB's and still win championships. Can't be good for sustained time without a very good QB.

Keep Dreaming  
Bruner4329 : 2/24/2018 4:24 pm : link
I love the comments that somehow after 8 games they will replace Eli with either Darnold or Rosen. Neither one is ready to play at this level. Darnold is at least a year if not longer. he has a total of under 30 games at the college level.
RE: Keep Dreaming  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/24/2018 4:32 pm : link
In comment 13841523 Bruner4329 said:
Quote:
Neither one is ready to play at this level.


According to who?

Back to the OP....  
Jimmy Googs : 2/24/2018 4:56 pm : link
that would be a good situation to have now wouldn't it...an improving team and a highly touted prospect on the bench.

My guess is a smart GM/Head Coach would have to evaluate the improved play of the Offense and whether Eli was contributing to it or holding it back. To the extent it is the latter, you would likely see Eli cut loose in favor of the #2 pick or Webb if still around.

Unlikely you will see an improved Offense though without improved QB play.

And imv, you are unlikely to see improved QB with Eli heading in the wrong direction with his abilities and age...



Barring something unexpected  
old man : 2/24/2018 5:10 pm : link
2018 is Eli's year to start, 2019 likely as well, unless a QB is drafted, and develops so rapidly in the FOs eyes, that they will have to make the unpleasant decision.
Eli is a realist, he knows the spirit may be willing, but the flesh weak.Especially at 39 and without the TB non-steroid steroids/nutrition/regimen(any are all of those).
RE: Barring something unexpected  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/24/2018 5:15 pm : link
In comment 13841540 old man said:
Quote:
2018 is Eli's year to start, 2019 likely as well, unless a QB is drafted, and develops so rapidly in the FOs eyes, that they will have to make the unpleasant decision.
Eli is a realist, he knows the spirit may be willing, but the flesh weak.Especially at 39 and without the TB non-steroid steroids/nutrition/regimen(any are all of those).

Develops so rapidly? Sitting a QB drafted #2 overall for a full season is already on the more conservative side of the developmental timeline. You think it would be a rapid development for a #2 overall pick to be legitimately pushing to start by his second season? In what world is that rapid?

And I hope that our front office doesn't approach things like fans and worry about how pleasant or unpleasant a personnel decision may be.
...  
christian : 2/24/2018 5:20 pm : link
I just hope the GM and coach have enough clout to bench team Manning without the pants shitting, crying and pops going to the media, if the team is eliminated.
RE: RE: Keep Dreaming  
Bruner4329 : 2/24/2018 5:26 pm : link
In comment 13841526 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13841523 Bruner4329 said:


Quote:


Neither one is ready to play at this level.



According to who?

Go back and watch some of the games this past year. Start with Darnold against ND. Looked horrible.
20/28 for 229 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/24/2018 5:35 pm : link
isn't horrible. What was horrible is the thing that was playing QB for notre dame in the same game.
RE: RE: RE: Keep Dreaming  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/24/2018 5:39 pm : link
In comment 13841554 Bruner4329 said:
Quote:
In comment 13841526 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13841523 Bruner4329 said:


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Neither one is ready to play at this level.



According to who?



Go back and watch some of the games this past year. Start with Darnold against ND. Looked horrible.

When he completed 20 of 28 passes (71.4%) for 229 yards with 2 TDs and 1 INT on the road against an archrival that was 5-1 and had only lost, by one point, to the eventual NC runner up at that point?

If that's horrible, he should be fine.

Imagine if he went 17 for 32 (53.1%) for 145 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT, with three drives that stalled out inside the 10, at home against Arkansas? What would you think about that QB? It would be a miracle if that guy would ever have been ready to play in the NFL.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: ...  
NikkiMac : 2/24/2018 6:01 pm : link
In comment 13841549 christian said:
Quote:
I just hope the GM and coach have enough clout to bench team Manning without the pants shitting, crying and pops going to the media, if the team is eliminated.


Eliminated ? I’m pulling him if we are 0-3 I don’t want to sit through a season like the last do you ?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Keep Dreaming  
Bruner4329 : 2/24/2018 6:04 pm : link
In comment 13841559 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13841554 Bruner4329 said:


Quote:


In comment 13841526 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13841523 Bruner4329 said:


Quote:


Neither one is ready to play at this level.



According to who?



Go back and watch some of the games this past year. Start with Darnold against ND. Looked horrible.


When he completed 20 of 28 passes (71.4%) for 229 yards with 2 TDs and 1 INT on the road against an archrival that was 5-1 and had only lost, by one point, to the eventual NC runner up at that point?

If that's horrible, he should be fine.

Imagine if he went 17 for 32 (53.1%) for 145 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT, with three drives that stalled out inside the 10, at home against Arkansas? What would you think about that QB? It would be a miracle if that guy would ever have been ready to play in the NFL. Link - ( New Window )


Didn,t watch the game I guess. He made 2 crucial turnovers in first half with INT and Fumble. Game was 28-0 at half. His stats all came when game was out of reach. Final score 49-14. You need to look at more than just numbers.
RE: 20/28 for 229 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT  
Bruner4329 : 2/24/2018 6:06 pm : link
In comment 13841557 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
isn't horrible. What was horrible is the thing that was playing QB for notre dame in the same game.


Yeah imagine if he had played well. ND only won by 49-14 score.
This really isn't all that complex.  
Dave on the UWS : 2/24/2018 6:15 pm : link
Eli's contract for 2018 makes it necessary for him to stay. Thus he is the starter for this year. When Shurmur means he is rebuilding around Eli he's referring to the fact that Eli is the starter for THIS year. His contract after this year means he can be cut at any time. The top QBs from this year will greatly benefit from sitting for a year. It all fits together very well. Whether Eli is traded or retires will be up to him. But I can't see a scenario where he is the starter in 2019.
Eli is going to be the QB this year  
UberAlias : 2/24/2018 7:05 pm : link
After that, they are smart to play the best QB on the roster, whoever that may be.
Still think  
mrvax : 2/24/2018 7:26 pm : link
that once the Giants are eliminated, it's a good time to get your backup QB some work if he's never played before. No sense in playing a Geno Smith type though. I know TC wouldn't do it but I would.
Cutting Eli  
Spirit of '86 : 2/24/2018 7:53 pm : link
The business reality of cutting Eli after 2018 is only $6.2 million of dead cap $. Have to think either Webb or the #2 pick will start in 2019 and they will build the OL and LB groups as much as possible in the next two years.
RE: The idea that a 37 year old QB will be trending up  
twostepgiants : 2/24/2018 9:19 pm : link
In comment 13841312 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
after two seasons of decline, is wishful thinking. The idea that the upward trend will happen or continue at age 38 or 39 is beyond wishful thinking.

Eli is not going to play forever. This is not a scenario that anyone needs to get too worried about, IMO. He watched his brother suffer through multiple neck surgeries and finish out his career as a shell of himself; I don't see Eli wanting to go down that path. I think there's a 50/50 shot Eli retires after the 2018 season, and an even higher likelihood that he retires after 2019.

If the Giants take a QB at #2, there's going to be enormous pressure to get him on the field. Could he sit for one year? Definitely. Two? Maybe, but it starts to get less likely. Beyond Eli's current contract (which also means extending or re-signing Eli while other star players are going to start to need to be re-signed)? The chances of that are so infinitesimal that it's almost crazy to suggest.



I agree with every word of this post
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Keep Dreaming  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/24/2018 9:38 pm : link
In comment 13841574 Bruner4329 said:
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In comment 13841559 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13841554 Bruner4329 said:


Quote:


In comment 13841526 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13841523 Bruner4329 said:


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Neither one is ready to play at this level.



According to who?



Go back and watch some of the games this past year. Start with Darnold against ND. Looked horrible.


When he completed 20 of 28 passes (71.4%) for 229 yards with 2 TDs and 1 INT on the road against an archrival that was 5-1 and had only lost, by one point, to the eventual NC runner up at that point?

If that's horrible, he should be fine.

Imagine if he went 17 for 32 (53.1%) for 145 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT, with three drives that stalled out inside the 10, at home against Arkansas? What would you think about that QB? It would be a miracle if that guy would ever have been ready to play in the NFL. Link - ( New Window )



Didn,t watch the game I guess. He made 2 crucial turnovers in first half with INT and Fumble. Game was 28-0 at half. His stats all came when game was out of reach. Final score 49-14. You need to look at more than just numbers.

Well, I suppose that settles it. One game is definitely a satisfactory sample size. Good thing we didn't apply the same standard to Eli after the Minnesota game in 2007.

Do better next time.
It boggles my mind,  
Doomster : 2/25/2018 12:00 am : link
that you keep Eli.....he is an average QB, with no OL in front of him, and no running game....

We may approach 8-8 and miss the playoffs....what does that accomplish?

With the Bortles signing, that is one less team available in the Eli Sweepstakes....I don't think the Giants would get much for him, if he waved the no trade clause, unless it became a conditional pick and he had a good year with a new team that could protect him....

The only option is to designate him a june first cut, and save 10M this season and 10M next season......this is a min 2 year rebuild and Eli is not going to lead this team to the promise land this year.....you suck another year, get another high pick and make your move in 2019....

Start the inevitable RIGHT NOW!
Do we really need to release Eli and free up $10M?  
Jimmy Googs : 2/25/2018 8:35 am : link
And what would we do with it....waste it on an O-lineman and a Linebacker or a halfway decent slot corner?

nah...
Wow. Mark cuban’s got nothing on some of you  
Bill L : 2/25/2018 9:10 am : link
..
Decision for Eli  
Jim in NH : 2/25/2018 9:34 am : link
Look, I go back to being 6 years old watching Charlie Conerly.

Eli Manning has been trending down for four years and there is no non-emotional reason to expect him to improve. His career in NY is essentially over.

That having been said, quarterbacks are made not drafted, I expect the Giants to draft Barkley at #2, draft a QB Gettleman likes in rounds 3-6 and then to see what Webb can do.
And yet  
GeoMan999 : 2/25/2018 10:12 am : link
When it comes time to predict our record this year a lot of you will say we will have a very good record. Not all. That is after a good draft and free agency period. So there is a disconnect.

It will be very interesting to see how it plays out. Somewhere Phil Simms is smiling.
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