Why are you assuming he retires? I would assume just the opposite. Did Brady retire when he turned 40? Did Brees? Did Favre? The only reason Peyton did was because his arm was completely shot.
This is why it's so important for the Giants to draft a QB with the #2 pick if there is one worthy of the pick. If they don't, Eli will have them by the balls in 2020, when QBs are routinely making 30+M/year.
And Webb sucks?.One word if they don't have a very early pick in 2020.....Screwed.
Theyre not screwed. They can move up as far as they need to if their guy is there. Teams do it all the time.
Nope. The new NFL rules say that after the 2018 draft, no QBs can be added to a team...ever. So, if we don’t get one, any one in this draft, we are screwed.
RE: RE: So you're saying Giants don't draft a QB in 2018 and 2019? Â
Nope. The new NFL rules say that after the 2018 draft, no QBs can be added to a team...ever. So, if we don’t get one, any one in this draft, we are screwed.
I read that somewhere too.
RE: RE: RE: So you're saying Giants don't draft a QB in 2018 and 2019? Â
And Webb sucks?.One word if they don't have a very early pick in 2020.....Screwed.
Theyre not screwed. They can move up as far as they need to if their guy is there. Teams do it all the time.
Nope. The new NFL rules say that after the 2018 draft, no QBs can be added to a team...ever. So, if we don’t get one, any one in this draft, we are screwed.
A lot of assumptions. So Webb sucks we don't take one in the next two years and we 're banking on FA? Ok good. Oh and we can move up as far as we want to in 2020? LOL. I guess I'm hoping our long term answer is coming before 2020.
Mr. Vax ..I thought you said we'd be relying on Geno Smiths Â
But there is no mention of Big Ben, Phillip Rivers, Even Brees who is older and Brady being done.
I’m in the draft a QB camp but it’s not because Eli will retire it’s because in 2yrs I don’t want to resign him, and i’d Like the new guy to have time to learn from him.
I also like Webb, but the position is too important to play wait and see with him. If he is that good he will beat out the new guy or be traded.
RE: Really no worries. Because if we don't draft a QB Â
Davis Webb can lead the Giants for years to come and they don't need a QB
or
Davis Webb is just a good backup and they need to replace Eli and so they draft a QB this year.
Going by the OP's question, to me it means the Giants completely screwed up. I'm not sure what to do then. In that case, it's up to the leadership of the team (GM, coach etc) to fix it and since we are completely clueless as to how they will respond, it's a tough question to answer.
is now in the game manager stage of his career. Can you win with him? Yes. Can he carry a team? No. That is the reality of Eli. He should have been bench last season once it was a lost season....at bare minimum you let him start and once it was apparent we were not winning you yank him for WEBB. Not Geno that was just plain stupid.
Now if the GM and HC really dont think Webb has it you draft a QB. If you do then you get he OLs (FA and draft) you need them no matter what Eli, Rookie QB, Web FA etc. However getting a stud RB (Barkley) helps Eli, Webb, a FA QB or a rookie. So with that even if you dont go QB now or next year it means we suck have cap room and a good draft pick so we are back here with a lot clearer picture. Now I am assuming the OL is better the RB game is better and OBJ, Shep and EE are doing well ... we just suck at QB with a decent D.
So all in all yup gambling would suck looking short term BUT we are in a place of total despair and no hope ... no if Gettleman has Reese like luck with the draft and/or FA it is bad no matter what.
new versions of Keenum and Foles and Garrappolo and others, the way the Giants got Kerry Collins and made it to the Super Bowl.
I'm not against taking a QB at #2, but I dont think Eli should be on a short leash either.
I am really liking this draft. Of course picking 2 overall makes it more interesting. Like most, I'm not 100% sold on the QBs, but sold enough that I wouldnt mind the Giants making an investment with their first pick. Wouldn't mind Barkley, wouldnt mind Chubb, wouldnt even mind Nelson. A lot of good choices, and with the new personnel department it's anyone's guess who they will pick, and that of course has a lot to do with who the Browns take at 1.
Exciting times.
between Simms and Manning was brutal. Collins did ok for a bit, but not having a QB is why you see teams like the Browns, Jets, Etc.. in the same position every draft. Eli was great but he has been declining, and Beckham made him seem a lot better than he was. He was missing some really open throws this year and the last few.
Question, and one that most posters on this board refuse to answer or out and out want to ignore and want to pretend that (1) Eli has 5 years left (2) Davis Webb ascends from below average college qb to a NFL superstar (3) for the first time in NFL history, the qb position is no longer an important part of an NFL franchise and/or (4) the Giants can simply trade up in a future draft for a qb who may or may not exist with a team that may or may not want to trade with the Giants.
However, the most likely scenario facing this franchise is that none of the above things are true, and to ignore the qb position this year in a strong qb draft with a number 2 pick would be a monumental failure on the part of the New regime. As Giants fans, we should all be fully skeptical of the staff until they prove themselves. Unfortunately this franchise has made so many bad decisions over the past half decade, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Here is an area where they can endear themselves back to fans, selecting the right qb at 2 and not kicking the decision down the road and using manning as a cop out.
But there is no mention of Big Ben, Phillip Rivers, Even Brees who is older and Brady being done.
I’m in the draft a QB camp but it’s not because Eli will retire it’s because in 2yrs I don’t want to resign him, and i’d Like the new guy to have time to learn from him.
I also like Webb, but the position is too important to play wait and see with him. If he is that good he will beat out the new guy or be traded.
There's plenty of mention of Roethlisberger. He's talked about his own retirement as recently as this year. Also, Brady and Brees have been better players. They can decline a bit from age and still be quite good.
Question, and one that most posters on this board refuse to answer or out and out want to ignore and want to pretend that (1) Eli has 5 years left (2) Davis Webb ascends from below average college qb to a NFL superstar (3) for the first time in NFL history, the qb position is no longer an important part of an NFL franchise and/or (4) the Giants can simply trade up in a future draft for a qb who may or may not exist with a team that may or may not want to trade with the Giants.
However, the most likely scenario facing this franchise is that none of the above things are true, and to ignore the qb position this year in a strong qb draft with a number 2 pick would be a monumental failure on the part of the New regime. As Giants fans, we should all be fully skeptical of the staff until they prove themselves. Unfortunately this franchise has made so many bad decisions over the past half decade, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Here is an area where they can endear themselves back to fans, selecting the right qb at 2 and not kicking the decision down the road and using manning as a cop out.
Your second paragraph is spot on - well said. The way the fake GM hunt took place was insulting. Once Mara inexplicably brought in that oaf Accorsi, it was a fait accompli - Gettleman the GM.
The spell Accorsi has over Mara is worthy of a book..
Question, and one that most posters on this board refuse to answer or out and out want to ignore and want to pretend that (1) Eli has 5 years left (2) Davis Webb ascends from below average college qb to a NFL superstar (3) for the first time in NFL history, the qb position is no longer an important part of an NFL franchise and/or (4) the Giants can simply trade up in a future draft for a qb who may or may not exist with a team that may or may not want to trade with the Giants.
However, the most likely scenario facing this franchise is that none of the above things are true, and to ignore the qb position this year in a strong qb draft with a number 2 pick would be a monumental failure on the part of the New regime. As Giants fans, we should all be fully skeptical of the staff until they prove themselves. Unfortunately this franchise has made so many bad decisions over the past half decade, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Here is an area where they can endear themselves back to fans, selecting the right qb at 2 and not kicking the decision down the road and using manning as a cop out.
Actually it is a very stupid hypothetical because it assumes a lot of facts without providing any basis for the facts. First, Shurmur has proven in the NFL that he can tailor the offense to the QB who he has running the scheme. Second, if you look at Davis Webb's college numbers from 2016 to Josh Rosen's they are similar. Both had a completion percentage within 1% of each other and Webb had 11 more TD's and 2 more INT's. So Davis Webb is a below average college QB and Josh Rosen is a strong QB in a strong QB draft? 1999 was expected to be a new "Year of the QB" with Tim Couch-Donovan McNabb-Akili Smith drafted 1-2-3 and Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown also drafted in the Top 12. What if it is 2020 and our 1st Round QB from 2018 is not significantly better than Davis Webb? Hell, look at Washington Redskins with Kirk Cousins supplanting RGIII or Gus Frerotte supplanting Heath Shuler. What if this team still has plenty of holes because rather than using our first round pick om a legitimate upgrade over what we currently have we shoehorned a QB? I am not saying that we should just ignore the QB position over the next two drafts, but I dispute the premise that one has to be drafted in the first round of 2018 even if the Giants feel that there is no QB that really is much better than Davis Webb at #2 overall
Just when did all of the QBs available in this draft Â
Question, and one that most posters on this board refuse to answer or out and out want to ignore and want to pretend that (1) Eli has 5 years left (2) Davis Webb ascends from below average college qb to a NFL superstar (3) for the first time in NFL history, the qb position is no longer an important part of an NFL franchise and/or (4) the Giants can simply trade up in a future draft for a qb who may or may not exist with a team that may or may not want to trade with the Giants.
However, the most likely scenario facing this franchise is that none of the above things are true, and to ignore the qb position this year in a strong qb draft with a number 2 pick would be a monumental failure on the part of the New regime. As Giants fans, we should all be fully skeptical of the staff until they prove themselves. Unfortunately this franchise has made so many bad decisions over the past half decade, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Here is an area where they can endear themselves back to fans, selecting the right qb at 2 and not kicking the decision down the road and using manning as a cop out.
Actually it is a very stupid hypothetical because it assumes a lot of facts without providing any basis for the facts. First, Shurmur has proven in the NFL that he can tailor the offense to the QB who he has running the scheme. Second, if you look at Davis Webb's college numbers from 2016 to Josh Rosen's they are similar. Both had a completion percentage within 1% of each other and Webb had 11 more TD's and 2 more INT's. So Davis Webb is a below average college QB and Josh Rosen is a strong QB in a strong QB draft? 1999 was expected to be a new "Year of the QB" with Tim Couch-Donovan McNabb-Akili Smith drafted 1-2-3 and Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown also drafted in the Top 12. What if it is 2020 and our 1st Round QB from 2018 is not significantly better than Davis Webb? Hell, look at Washington Redskins with Kirk Cousins supplanting RGIII or Gus Frerotte supplanting Heath Shuler. What if this team still has plenty of holes because rather than using our first round pick om a legitimate upgrade over what we currently have we shoehorned a QB? I am not saying that we should just ignore the QB position over the next two drafts, but I dispute the premise that one has to be drafted in the first round of 2018 even if the Giants feel that there is no QB that really is much better than Davis Webb at #2 overall
And here comes the fans citing college stats a proof Webb was a legit college qb. Can't make this stuff up. Stats are near meaningless in college. You couldn't have made a worse point.
RE: I thought of Bridgewater too, but Keenum can handle Shurmer’s offense Â
(2) Davis Webb ascends from below average college qb to a NFL superstar
Explain exactly how Davis Webb was a "below average college QB"? 2016 - 4,300 yds on 62% completion, 37 TD's. If that is below average, I'd love to see what an average QB can do!
I don't know what bug crawled up your ass about Davis Webb, but your hatred of him is becoming pathological. It's OK, just take deep breaths.
I agree that NYG should go out and get a QB, because yes, we don't know, nor should we expect that Webb becomes a starting caliber NFL QB, but they should do that only if they feel one of the guys available is worth it. The last thing they should do is force the pick, and use a premium pick on a QB who isn't the guy. Either way, misrepresenting Davis Webb's college career isn't helpful. I don't know, I'm a Giants fan, I'm rooting for the guy.
What is your proof, beyond conjecture, that there is a superstar QB in this draft capable of succeeding Eli? I don't see a sure thing in this crop. Right now I think Mayfield may end up the best of the Top 3 (Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield) but he is not without flaws due to height, some questionable decisionmaking unrelated to football, and coming from an offense that allowed him plenty of time and usually not many reads. Josh Rosen is the Justin Pugh of QB's. He will play at an above average level when he plays, but can't be counted on to provide you an entire 16 game season. For all of the talk about making multiple reads on each play, you do not always have that luxury in the NFL. I wonder if he has that clock in his head that all good QB's have. If he doesn't, does he turn into David Carr? Let's not forget that when Carr actually had an OL in front of him he looked like a very good NFL QB. Sam Darnold I believe has more upside than Rosen, but has a lower floor. If you take him you really do need to redshirt him this year. Rosen turning into shell-shocked David Carr, Darnold busting, and Mayfield not reaching his potential are all just as possible as Eli sucking, Webb never doing anything, the Giants not drafting a QB in 2018 or 2019, and not having a plan in place after Eli.
Question, and one that most posters on this board refuse to answer or out and out want to ignore and want to pretend that (1) Eli has 5 years left (2) Davis Webb ascends from below average college qb to a NFL superstar (3) for the first time in NFL history, the qb position is no longer an important part of an NFL franchise and/or (4) the Giants can simply trade up in a future draft for a qb who may or may not exist with a team that may or may not want to trade with the Giants.
However, the most likely scenario facing this franchise is that none of the above things are true, and to ignore the qb position this year in a strong qb draft with a number 2 pick would be a monumental failure on the part of the New regime. As Giants fans, we should all be fully skeptical of the staff until they prove themselves. Unfortunately this franchise has made so many bad decisions over the past half decade, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Here is an area where they can endear themselves back to fans, selecting the right qb at 2 and not kicking the decision down the road and using manning as a cop out.
Actually it is a very stupid hypothetical because it assumes a lot of facts without providing any basis for the facts. First, Shurmur has proven in the NFL that he can tailor the offense to the QB who he has running the scheme. Second, if you look at Davis Webb's college numbers from 2016 to Josh Rosen's they are similar. Both had a completion percentage within 1% of each other and Webb had 11 more TD's and 2 more INT's. So Davis Webb is a below average college QB and Josh Rosen is a strong QB in a strong QB draft? 1999 was expected to be a new "Year of the QB" with Tim Couch-Donovan McNabb-Akili Smith drafted 1-2-3 and Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown also drafted in the Top 12. What if it is 2020 and our 1st Round QB from 2018 is not significantly better than Davis Webb? Hell, look at Washington Redskins with Kirk Cousins supplanting RGIII or Gus Frerotte supplanting Heath Shuler. What if this team still has plenty of holes because rather than using our first round pick om a legitimate upgrade over what we currently have we shoehorned a QB? I am not saying that we should just ignore the QB position over the next two drafts, but I dispute the premise that one has to be drafted in the first round of 2018 even if the Giants feel that there is no QB that really is much better than Davis Webb at #2 overall
And here comes the fans citing college stats a proof Webb was a legit college qb. Can't make this stuff up. Stats are near meaningless in college. You couldn't have made a worse point.
At least he made an attempt to back up his point with something other than hot air.
He can chuck it 75 yards, he can move, he has the size, he has the desire. When you look at similar articles from this years' Qb class, do they really look that much better? I am PISSED he did not start multiple games last year. Fucking stupid. Webb Article - ( New Window )
Anyone who witnessed. like me, the Graham/Kanell/Brown years at QB Â
really doesn't want to go through that again. For context, imagine being excited about being able to sign a former first-round QB because he's rumored to be a drunk racist. Fun times.
And Gettleman is totally right about "QB Hell," which is being bad enough not to go to the playoffs but good enough not to be able to draft high enough to get a QB. What you're left doing is what the Jets have been doing for years: drafting guys in the mid rounds, hoping they've found Tom Brady. How has that worked out?
The draft is always a crap shoot. However, the Giants have been presented a rare opportunity: a high draft pick in a draft with perceived high QB value. If the Giants braintrust believes that one of these guys can be a franchise QB for 10 years, they have to draft him. Unless they believe that Davis Webb is that guy. To believe Davis Webb is that guy, you also have to believe the Giants found a player the other 31 teams did not (and that the former regime, who just got fired, found him).
surprised if they do not pick a quarterback. Given their unusually high draft position and Eli's age, I just don't think they're going to pass up this opportunity to get a quarterback. However, this is all based on the assumption that they think one of the available quarterbacks is worthy of a number 2 overall pick
RE: Anyone who witnessed. like me, the Graham/Kanell/Brown years at QB Â
really doesn't want to go through that again. For context, imagine being excited about being able to sign a former first-round QB because he's rumored to be a drunk racist. Fun times.
And Gettleman is totally right about "QB Hell," which is being bad enough not to go to the playoffs but good enough not to be able to draft high enough to get a QB. What you're left doing is what the Jets have been doing for years: drafting guys in the mid rounds, hoping they've found Tom Brady. How has that worked out?
The draft is always a crap shoot. However, the Giants have been presented a rare opportunity: a high draft pick in a draft with perceived high QB value. If the Giants braintrust believes that one of these guys can be a franchise QB for 10 years, they have to draft him. Unless they believe that Davis Webb is that guy. To believe Davis Webb is that guy, you also have to believe the Giants found a player the other 31 teams did not (and that the former regime, who just got fired, found him).
At least we're having fun.
How many times did teams pass on Tom Brady? That is not to say that every QB after the first round is Tom Brady. Davis Webb may well be the next Giovanni Carmazzi. The key for me is how do they perceive the 2018 QB crop versus Davis Webb. Even if they do not see any as a franchise QB, if any of the three are perceived as significantly better than Webb then I would not be against the pick. The issue I have is that players like Barkley or Nelson are signficantly better than the players they would replace and are not available in Free Agency except at significant cost. We need talent throughout the roster and I don't want to pass on that to shoehorn a specific position.
There are alot of intangibles/possibilities that cannot be predicted over the next two years. The following hypotheticals exist:
1) Eli's contract is up. Do we resign him given that he has been exemplary as a top-tier QB over the past two years (i.e., 2018-2019). Eli obviously has more in the tank....... given this premise.
2) Eli is done and we have to consider whether Davis Webb is the real thing.
3) Given #3 premise, Eli has retired and we have considerably more cap (room) money to sign a FA QB. There might be one out there who Shurmur can turn into another Keenum if Davis Webb is not the answer.
4) If Davis Webb is not the answer, then maybe the answer is in the 2019 or 2020 college draft.
5) Davis Webb is the answer!!!!!!!!!!!!
5) In any of these scenarios, it is clear that the Giants do NOT need to draft a QB at #2 in 2018. The only way the Giants draft a QB this year is if they trade down and obtain a number of picks and Jackson or Rudolph is available with a 2nd Rd. pick.
This is why it's so important for the Giants to draft a QB with the #2 pick if there is one worthy of the pick. If they don't, Eli will have them by the balls in 2020, when QBs are routinely making 30+M/year.
Theyre not screwed. They can move up as far as they need to if their guy is there. Teams do it all the time.
Quote:
And Webb sucks?.One word if they don't have a very early pick in 2020.....Screwed.
Theyre not screwed. They can move up as far as they need to if their guy is there. Teams do it all the time.
Nope. The new NFL rules say that after the 2018 draft, no QBs can be added to a team...ever. So, if we don’t get one, any one in this draft, we are screwed.
I read that somewhere too.
Quote:
In comment 13851428 Blue21 said:
Quote:
And Webb sucks?.One word if they don't have a very early pick in 2020.....Screwed.
Theyre not screwed. They can move up as far as they need to if their guy is there. Teams do it all the time.
Nope. The new NFL rules say that after the 2018 draft, no QBs can be added to a team...ever. So, if we don’t get one, any one in this draft, we are screwed.
A lot of assumptions. So Webb sucks we don't take one in the next two years and we 're banking on FA? Ok good. Oh and we can move up as far as we want to in 2020? LOL. I guess I'm hoping our long term answer is coming before 2020.
I’m in the draft a QB camp but it’s not because Eli will retire it’s because in 2yrs I don’t want to resign him, and i’d Like the new guy to have time to learn from him.
I also like Webb, but the position is too important to play wait and see with him. If he is that good he will beat out the new guy or be traded.
or
Davis Webb is just a good backup and they need to replace Eli and so they draft a QB this year.
Going by the OP's question, to me it means the Giants completely screwed up. I'm not sure what to do then. In that case, it's up to the leadership of the team (GM, coach etc) to fix it and since we are completely clueless as to how they will respond, it's a tough question to answer.
Now if the GM and HC really dont think Webb has it you draft a QB. If you do then you get he OLs (FA and draft) you need them no matter what Eli, Rookie QB, Web FA etc. However getting a stud RB (Barkley) helps Eli, Webb, a FA QB or a rookie. So with that even if you dont go QB now or next year it means we suck have cap room and a good draft pick so we are back here with a lot clearer picture. Now I am assuming the OL is better the RB game is better and OBJ, Shep and EE are doing well ... we just suck at QB with a decent D.
So all in all yup gambling would suck looking short term BUT we are in a place of total despair and no hope ... no if Gettleman has Reese like luck with the draft and/or FA it is bad no matter what.
I'm not against taking a QB at #2, but I dont think Eli should be on a short leash either.
I am really liking this draft. Of course picking 2 overall makes it more interesting. Like most, I'm not 100% sold on the QBs, but sold enough that I wouldnt mind the Giants making an investment with their first pick. Wouldn't mind Barkley, wouldnt mind Chubb, wouldnt even mind Nelson. A lot of good choices, and with the new personnel department it's anyone's guess who they will pick, and that of course has a lot to do with who the Browns take at 1.
Exciting times.
However, the most likely scenario facing this franchise is that none of the above things are true, and to ignore the qb position this year in a strong qb draft with a number 2 pick would be a monumental failure on the part of the New regime. As Giants fans, we should all be fully skeptical of the staff until they prove themselves. Unfortunately this franchise has made so many bad decisions over the past half decade, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Here is an area where they can endear themselves back to fans, selecting the right qb at 2 and not kicking the decision down the road and using manning as a cop out.
I’m in the draft a QB camp but it’s not because Eli will retire it’s because in 2yrs I don’t want to resign him, and i’d Like the new guy to have time to learn from him.
I also like Webb, but the position is too important to play wait and see with him. If he is that good he will beat out the new guy or be traded.
There's plenty of mention of Roethlisberger. He's talked about his own retirement as recently as this year. Also, Brady and Brees have been better players. They can decline a bit from age and still be quite good.
However, the most likely scenario facing this franchise is that none of the above things are true, and to ignore the qb position this year in a strong qb draft with a number 2 pick would be a monumental failure on the part of the New regime. As Giants fans, we should all be fully skeptical of the staff until they prove themselves. Unfortunately this franchise has made so many bad decisions over the past half decade, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Here is an area where they can endear themselves back to fans, selecting the right qb at 2 and not kicking the decision down the road and using manning as a cop out.
Your second paragraph is spot on - well said. The way the fake GM hunt took place was insulting. Once Mara inexplicably brought in that oaf Accorsi, it was a fait accompli - Gettleman the GM.
The spell Accorsi has over Mara is worthy of a book..
However, the most likely scenario facing this franchise is that none of the above things are true, and to ignore the qb position this year in a strong qb draft with a number 2 pick would be a monumental failure on the part of the New regime. As Giants fans, we should all be fully skeptical of the staff until they prove themselves. Unfortunately this franchise has made so many bad decisions over the past half decade, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Here is an area where they can endear themselves back to fans, selecting the right qb at 2 and not kicking the decision down the road and using manning as a cop out.
Actually it is a very stupid hypothetical because it assumes a lot of facts without providing any basis for the facts. First, Shurmur has proven in the NFL that he can tailor the offense to the QB who he has running the scheme. Second, if you look at Davis Webb's college numbers from 2016 to Josh Rosen's they are similar. Both had a completion percentage within 1% of each other and Webb had 11 more TD's and 2 more INT's. So Davis Webb is a below average college QB and Josh Rosen is a strong QB in a strong QB draft? 1999 was expected to be a new "Year of the QB" with Tim Couch-Donovan McNabb-Akili Smith drafted 1-2-3 and Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown also drafted in the Top 12. What if it is 2020 and our 1st Round QB from 2018 is not significantly better than Davis Webb? Hell, look at Washington Redskins with Kirk Cousins supplanting RGIII or Gus Frerotte supplanting Heath Shuler. What if this team still has plenty of holes because rather than using our first round pick om a legitimate upgrade over what we currently have we shoehorned a QB? I am not saying that we should just ignore the QB position over the next two drafts, but I dispute the premise that one has to be drafted in the first round of 2018 even if the Giants feel that there is no QB that really is much better than Davis Webb at #2 overall
We should be kicking up our heels that we have some good choices in a year where we can take advantage of the opportunity to replace Eli.
I guess this is similar to those who said that weren’t any Olineman worth taking at 23 last year. Yet, other teams seemed to differ...
Quote:
Question, and one that most posters on this board refuse to answer or out and out want to ignore and want to pretend that (1) Eli has 5 years left (2) Davis Webb ascends from below average college qb to a NFL superstar (3) for the first time in NFL history, the qb position is no longer an important part of an NFL franchise and/or (4) the Giants can simply trade up in a future draft for a qb who may or may not exist with a team that may or may not want to trade with the Giants.
However, the most likely scenario facing this franchise is that none of the above things are true, and to ignore the qb position this year in a strong qb draft with a number 2 pick would be a monumental failure on the part of the New regime. As Giants fans, we should all be fully skeptical of the staff until they prove themselves. Unfortunately this franchise has made so many bad decisions over the past half decade, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Here is an area where they can endear themselves back to fans, selecting the right qb at 2 and not kicking the decision down the road and using manning as a cop out.
Actually it is a very stupid hypothetical because it assumes a lot of facts without providing any basis for the facts. First, Shurmur has proven in the NFL that he can tailor the offense to the QB who he has running the scheme. Second, if you look at Davis Webb's college numbers from 2016 to Josh Rosen's they are similar. Both had a completion percentage within 1% of each other and Webb had 11 more TD's and 2 more INT's. So Davis Webb is a below average college QB and Josh Rosen is a strong QB in a strong QB draft? 1999 was expected to be a new "Year of the QB" with Tim Couch-Donovan McNabb-Akili Smith drafted 1-2-3 and Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown also drafted in the Top 12. What if it is 2020 and our 1st Round QB from 2018 is not significantly better than Davis Webb? Hell, look at Washington Redskins with Kirk Cousins supplanting RGIII or Gus Frerotte supplanting Heath Shuler. What if this team still has plenty of holes because rather than using our first round pick om a legitimate upgrade over what we currently have we shoehorned a QB? I am not saying that we should just ignore the QB position over the next two drafts, but I dispute the premise that one has to be drafted in the first round of 2018 even if the Giants feel that there is no QB that really is much better than Davis Webb at #2 overall
And here comes the fans citing college stats a proof Webb was a legit college qb. Can't make this stuff up. Stats are near meaningless in college. You couldn't have made a worse point.
You want Keenum playing at MetLife in December? Good luck with that.
Explain exactly how Davis Webb was a "below average college QB"? 2016 - 4,300 yds on 62% completion, 37 TD's. If that is below average, I'd love to see what an average QB can do!
I don't know what bug crawled up your ass about Davis Webb, but your hatred of him is becoming pathological. It's OK, just take deep breaths.
I agree that NYG should go out and get a QB, because yes, we don't know, nor should we expect that Webb becomes a starting caliber NFL QB, but they should do that only if they feel one of the guys available is worth it. The last thing they should do is force the pick, and use a premium pick on a QB who isn't the guy. Either way, misrepresenting Davis Webb's college career isn't helpful. I don't know, I'm a Giants fan, I'm rooting for the guy.
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In comment 13851657 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Question, and one that most posters on this board refuse to answer or out and out want to ignore and want to pretend that (1) Eli has 5 years left (2) Davis Webb ascends from below average college qb to a NFL superstar (3) for the first time in NFL history, the qb position is no longer an important part of an NFL franchise and/or (4) the Giants can simply trade up in a future draft for a qb who may or may not exist with a team that may or may not want to trade with the Giants.
However, the most likely scenario facing this franchise is that none of the above things are true, and to ignore the qb position this year in a strong qb draft with a number 2 pick would be a monumental failure on the part of the New regime. As Giants fans, we should all be fully skeptical of the staff until they prove themselves. Unfortunately this franchise has made so many bad decisions over the past half decade, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Here is an area where they can endear themselves back to fans, selecting the right qb at 2 and not kicking the decision down the road and using manning as a cop out.
Actually it is a very stupid hypothetical because it assumes a lot of facts without providing any basis for the facts. First, Shurmur has proven in the NFL that he can tailor the offense to the QB who he has running the scheme. Second, if you look at Davis Webb's college numbers from 2016 to Josh Rosen's they are similar. Both had a completion percentage within 1% of each other and Webb had 11 more TD's and 2 more INT's. So Davis Webb is a below average college QB and Josh Rosen is a strong QB in a strong QB draft? 1999 was expected to be a new "Year of the QB" with Tim Couch-Donovan McNabb-Akili Smith drafted 1-2-3 and Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown also drafted in the Top 12. What if it is 2020 and our 1st Round QB from 2018 is not significantly better than Davis Webb? Hell, look at Washington Redskins with Kirk Cousins supplanting RGIII or Gus Frerotte supplanting Heath Shuler. What if this team still has plenty of holes because rather than using our first round pick om a legitimate upgrade over what we currently have we shoehorned a QB? I am not saying that we should just ignore the QB position over the next two drafts, but I dispute the premise that one has to be drafted in the first round of 2018 even if the Giants feel that there is no QB that really is much better than Davis Webb at #2 overall
And here comes the fans citing college stats a proof Webb was a legit college qb. Can't make this stuff up. Stats are near meaningless in college. You couldn't have made a worse point.
At least he made an attempt to back up his point with something other than hot air.
Webb Article - ( New Window )
And Gettleman is totally right about "QB Hell," which is being bad enough not to go to the playoffs but good enough not to be able to draft high enough to get a QB. What you're left doing is what the Jets have been doing for years: drafting guys in the mid rounds, hoping they've found Tom Brady. How has that worked out?
The draft is always a crap shoot. However, the Giants have been presented a rare opportunity: a high draft pick in a draft with perceived high QB value. If the Giants braintrust believes that one of these guys can be a franchise QB for 10 years, they have to draft him. Unless they believe that Davis Webb is that guy. To believe Davis Webb is that guy, you also have to believe the Giants found a player the other 31 teams did not (and that the former regime, who just got fired, found him).
At least we're having fun.
And Gettleman is totally right about "QB Hell," which is being bad enough not to go to the playoffs but good enough not to be able to draft high enough to get a QB. What you're left doing is what the Jets have been doing for years: drafting guys in the mid rounds, hoping they've found Tom Brady. How has that worked out?
The draft is always a crap shoot. However, the Giants have been presented a rare opportunity: a high draft pick in a draft with perceived high QB value. If the Giants braintrust believes that one of these guys can be a franchise QB for 10 years, they have to draft him. Unless they believe that Davis Webb is that guy. To believe Davis Webb is that guy, you also have to believe the Giants found a player the other 31 teams did not (and that the former regime, who just got fired, found him).
At least we're having fun.
How many times did teams pass on Tom Brady? That is not to say that every QB after the first round is Tom Brady. Davis Webb may well be the next Giovanni Carmazzi. The key for me is how do they perceive the 2018 QB crop versus Davis Webb. Even if they do not see any as a franchise QB, if any of the three are perceived as significantly better than Webb then I would not be against the pick. The issue I have is that players like Barkley or Nelson are signficantly better than the players they would replace and are not available in Free Agency except at significant cost. We need talent throughout the roster and I don't want to pass on that to shoehorn a specific position.
1) Eli's contract is up. Do we resign him given that he has been exemplary as a top-tier QB over the past two years (i.e., 2018-2019). Eli obviously has more in the tank....... given this premise.
2) Eli is done and we have to consider whether Davis Webb is the real thing.
3) Given #3 premise, Eli has retired and we have considerably more cap (room) money to sign a FA QB. There might be one out there who Shurmur can turn into another Keenum if Davis Webb is not the answer.
4) If Davis Webb is not the answer, then maybe the answer is in the 2019 or 2020 college draft.
5) Davis Webb is the answer!!!!!!!!!!!!
5) In any of these scenarios, it is clear that the Giants do NOT need to draft a QB at #2 in 2018. The only way the Giants draft a QB this year is if they trade down and obtain a number of picks and Jackson or Rudolph is available with a 2nd Rd. pick.