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Dilfer: Giants have their QB of future in Webb

ryanmkeane : 3/6/2018 1:03 pm
Dilfer feels UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen would be the most optimal fit for the Giants if general manager Dave Gettleman wanted to go that route in Round 1, but doesn’t necessary agree that New York must select a quarterback.

Rather, Dilfer says, the Giants already their Eli Manning heir on the roster in the form of 2017 third-round pick Davis Webb.

“I think they have their future quarterback,” Dilfer told NJ Advance Media. “Given enough time and given that they have a two-time Super Bowl champion to bridge a couple years to integrate that guy in.

“Giving Davis a year or two more to develop and learn the ropes and kind of establish himself in the locker room and play well in preseason, it helps your team. Now you don’t have to go overpay at the position, or draft and roll the dice.”

Dilfer also believes the Giants are in good shape with Manning, who has already been named the team’s starter in 2018 and potentially beyond.

“I really like the combination of Eli and Davis Webb,” Dilfer said. “I might be on an island there, but I think Eli still has a lot of good stuff in the tank. Especially considering so much of this game now is from the neck up. Eli has plenty of talent, plenty of juice. He just needs more answers to the test. He needs to be able to win the game intellectually as much as physically. I think this system will allow him to do that.”

I agree with Dilfer at this point in time, and I'm in the "Barkley, or trade back if he's gone" camp.
Dilfer on Webb - ( New Window )
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New regime in place  
EddieNYG : 3/6/2018 1:06 pm : link
I don't think Davis Webb is going to determine if they pass on a QB.

They will pass on a QB if they don't like any of the QBs.

I don't see how they can't like any of the top 3 guys.
RE: New regime in place  
ryanmkeane : 3/6/2018 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13852189 EddieNYG said:
Quote:
I don't think Davis Webb is going to determine if they pass on a QB.

People keep saying that...but how would that be the case if they like Webb a lot?

If they like Webb a lot and think he can be a franchise type QB in 2 years...why would they still draft a QB?
It's definitely a gamble to place the future of the organization  
nyjuggernaut2 : 3/6/2018 1:09 pm : link
in Webb's hands. But at the same time, it's a gamble taking a QB at #2 and hoping he becomes the franchise QB one day. Just have to trust the front office on this one whichever way they decide to go.
RE: RE: New regime in place  
EddieNYG : 3/6/2018 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13852191 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13852189 EddieNYG said:


Quote:


I don't think Davis Webb is going to determine if they pass on a QB.



People keep saying that...but how would that be the case if they like Webb a lot?

If they like Webb a lot and think he can be a franchise type QB in 2 years...why would they still draft a QB?

They could really like Webb.

But it's a tough sell to me to pass on Darnold, Allen or Rosen because of Davis Webb.

I think some fans just want Barkley so badly that they're rationalizing not taking a QB anyway they can.

It would be foolish to pass on a QB picking at 2 with a 37 year old QB other than you don't like any of them.

If they trade out of 2, and the QB picked at 2 becomes an All-Pro, I guarantee you the people complaining the loudest would be the same ones who are hoping for a trade down now.
Eddie  
ryanmkeane : 3/6/2018 1:14 pm : link
if we didn't have Webb, or Webb was an undrafted free agent, there's no way that anyone here would be clamoring for Barkley. Webb was a 3rd round pick with a high grade from a lot of teams, or so it seems. He checks all the boxes you want as far as leadership, IQ, love for the game, work ethic. He has a ridiculous arm to boot, and is now going to be coached by Shurmur and Shula. Shula made David Garrard look like a pro bowler.
RE: RE: New regime in place  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/6/2018 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13852191 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13852189 EddieNYG said:


Quote:


I don't think Davis Webb is going to determine if they pass on a QB.



People keep saying that...but how would that be the case if they like Webb a lot?

If they like Webb a lot and think he can be a franchise type QB in 2 years...why would they still draft a QB?

I think, if they believe that Webb is the guy, we should hope he emerges sooner than two years from now. Otherwise, he'll only have one year left on his rookie deal which is problematic on two fronts: for one thing, it means they'll have essentially thrown away the benefit of having a young QB and being able to build a roster around his lower salary; secondly, they'll have to make a long-term decision on Webb with only one year of live game experience and without a safety net.

It would be great if Webb was the next franchise QB and he's already drafted and the succession plan is already in place. But it's really just wishful thinking at this point, whether that comes from talking heads like Dilfer or other Giants fans directly. Neither Gettleman nor Shurmur have any reason but to sing his praises at this point, but just remember that the entire league (including the Giants) passed on Webb twice, and nothing since then has provided a reason for anyone to feel more confident about Webb than they should about any other 3rd round pick (and I'm speaking about 3rd round picks in general, not even referencing Reese's abysmal draft record with that round).

It's not impossible that Webb becomes the Giants' next QB. But it's wildly optimistic to depend on it.
Should have played him  
Rflairr : 3/6/2018 1:17 pm : link
And the new regime would have something to go on
I know it hasn't been long and it's probably not  
Beezer : 3/6/2018 1:19 pm : link
one of the first 7 things the new head coach has looked at, but has there been any noise at all, even a peep, about the coach and Webb getting together at all? Webb working out together at the facility? Eli working with his big #2 at Rutgers made me wonder where Webb is ... and if he's around the facility at all.
RE: Should have played him  
BamaBlue : 3/6/2018 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13852219 Rflairr said:
Quote:
And the new regime would have something to go on


+1 Unfortunately, we are where we are.
RE: Eddie  
EddieNYG : 3/6/2018 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13852213 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
if we didn't have Webb, or Webb was an undrafted free agent, there's no way that anyone here would be clamoring for Barkley. Webb was a 3rd round pick with a high grade from a lot of teams, or so it seems. He checks all the boxes you want as far as leadership, IQ, love for the game, work ethic. He has a ridiculous arm to boot, and is now going to be coached by Shurmur and Shula. Shula made David Garrard look like a pro bowler.


Again, rationalize it all day long. At the end of the day, this is a new regime who didn't pick Webb. They may like him. They may not. But Webb was considered a PROJECT. Yes, we have Eli for 2 more years so their is time.

But I can't get past the fact that the Giants are picking at #2 and their are 3 QBs who can be had without giving up the farm. Passing up on that because of Webb is foolish, IMO.
Unfortunately...  
bw in dc : 3/6/2018 1:25 pm : link
I think Dilfer's thinking has spread like a virus at Jints Central - led by Mara. And there is no immunization.
Dilfer's thought process: "If I could win a SB anyone can"  
Victor in CT : 3/6/2018 1:27 pm : link
He's a project. Sometime's project turn out ok. Mostly they don't. Romo is the exception not the rule.
If we don't take a QB @ #2  
GiantsLaw : 3/6/2018 1:29 pm : link
we should to trade down and secure another 2019 1st rd pick. This would give us ammunition to move up next year if we have to.
I am on record as wanting to bring in Wilks  
Chris684 : 3/6/2018 1:31 pm : link
but I am confident in Shurmur and now that he is here. Don't we want to give him the opportunity to earn his money?

Half of BBI pointed to his work with Case Keenum as the reason why we should bring him here. Now that we have a blank canvas in the form of an unknown but talented 3rd round pick from last year, everyone writes him off? No one wants to see what Webb and Shurmur can do?
RE: Unfortunately...  
UConn4523 : 3/6/2018 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13852241 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I think Dilfer's thinking has spread like a virus at Jints Central - led by Mara. And there is no immunization.


Yes, the Giants do whatever Trent Dilfer says...
If they pass  
UESBLUE : 3/6/2018 1:34 pm : link
on one of the shiny new toys in favor of a guy who couldnt see the field ahead of Geno Smith they better be right. Or this new regime will be gone in a cpl yrs...
Webb  
Tony in Tampa : 3/6/2018 1:38 pm : link
Since no one has seen him play in an NFL game, I just don't understand why so many seem to feel that Webb will be as good as the QBs in this draft as opposed to being Ryan Nassib.

With all the detailed analysis of every single draftable college football player: What are the chances that Webb turns out to be this hidden gem from 2017 draft vs just another guy?
Opinions are like assholes  
superspynyg : 3/6/2018 1:45 pm : link
Everyone has one and only some stink. I would be happy if Webb was the future. That opens up a whole lot of possibilities for the Giants.
RE: If they pass  
Alan in Toledo : 3/6/2018 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13852268 UESBLUE said:
Quote:
on one of the shiny new toys in favor of a guy who couldnt see the field ahead of Geno Smith they better be right. Or this new regime will be gone in a cpl yrs...


Geno Smith's summons was McAdoo's call -- and hasn't McAdoo been completely discredited?
RE: Should have played him  
superspynyg : 3/6/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13852219 Rflairr said:
Quote:
And the new regime would have something to go on


Stupidity and lack of common sense

That’s why a)Reese and McAdoo had to go and b) Spags was not really considered for HC.
RE: Webb  
Knee of Theismann : 3/6/2018 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13852272 Tony in Tampa said:
Quote:
Since no one has seen him play in an NFL game, I just don't understand why so many seem to feel that Webb will be as good as the QBs in this draft as opposed to being Ryan Nassib.

With all the detailed analysis of every single draftable college football player: What are the chances that Webb turns out to be this hidden gem from 2017 draft vs just another guy?


Webb was definitely higher-rated than Nassib. He could have gone in the 2nd round but fell to the Giants in the 3rd. Nassib was a 4th rounder and I think went right where he was graded. I'm pretty sure the Giants knew he was a backup when they took him, whereas Webb was selected to be groomed behind Eli. I think it was also known that Webb would need a couple years to sit which is why he wasn't higher rated, so it just happened to be an ideal fit for the Giants with Eli still being only 36 and apparently playing at a high level in 2016. I don't think Webb will ever be an all-pro, but with the right development and the right system and the right players around him I think he could win football games.
RE: They will pass on a QB if they don't like any of the QBs.  
Trainmaster : 3/6/2018 2:04 pm : link
+1

I’d like them to go Barkley, but if those who get paid to run the Giants feel one of these 2018 QBs is worth the 2nd overall, they should go for it. I just hope it’s not Rosen.

The comarison is not Webb vs. the 2018 QBs  
Pork Chop : 3/6/2018 2:07 pm : link
It's Webb + Barkley vs the 2018 QBs. I don't know anything about anything, but I am leaning toward not wanting a QB with #2.
RE: RE: If they pass  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/6/2018 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13852283 Alan in Toledo said:
Quote:
In comment 13852268 UESBLUE said:


Quote:


on one of the shiny new toys in favor of a guy who couldnt see the field ahead of Geno Smith they better be right. Or this new regime will be gone in a cpl yrs...



Geno Smith's summons was McAdoo's call -- and hasn't McAdoo been completely discredited?

Fair point. Here's the counterpoint: Davis Webb was a Jerry Reese 3rd round pick -- and hasn't Reese been completely discredited?
Chubb in the second  
Sec 103 : 3/6/2018 2:10 pm : link
. Never have to many DEs
RE: The comarison is not Webb vs. the 2018 QBs  
GFAN52 : 3/6/2018 2:15 pm : link
In comment 13852315 Pork Chop said:
Quote:
It's Webb + Barkley vs the 2018 QBs. I don't know anything about anything, but I am leaning toward not wanting a QB with #2.


That's assuming Barkley doesn't go to the Browns with the first pick.
If there is a QB the Giants like they should take him  
Rudy5757 : 3/6/2018 2:22 pm : link
Webb is an unknown no matter how much the organization liked him. If you think any of them is worthy of a top pick pull the trigger. If Webb does develop you have a trade chip. If Webb develops and the other QB doesnt you still have a QB. This team is going to need a QB very soon and we will hopefully not be in a top 5 position to get one.

The only reason to pass on a QB this year is if they feel none of them are any good. The GM does not have the advantage of seeing Webb 1st hand to make the call. There may be others in the org who say he is the real deal but if my job was on the line I would want to make a more educated decision. Webb was a 3rd round pick so some teams with QB needs passed on him 3 times for some reason. If I am the GM I evaluate the draft as if I don't have a QB of the future and draft by that strategy.
If they like Webb it sure would be nice to  
KWALL2 : 3/6/2018 2:22 pm : link
draft Barkley or Chubb and give it one more shot at a run with Eli.
I think  
joeinpa : 3/6/2018 2:29 pm : link
those opposed to a quarterback at #2 are of the "immediate gratification crowd"

It would be great if Webb were the guy. But to bank on that when you are in a position that has only come to the Giants twice in 37 years, and not get a quarterback from a class that until recently was considered a very good crop, seems a colossal mistake.

If Webb turns out to be the guy, and Darnold or Rosen or Webb, also turn out to be the guy....I'd say that is a great scenario.


I trust Gettleman. If they pass on a quarterback, it will be because they don't think they are a correct value for that pick.

I don't believe it will because they have a conviction that Webb is the next guy.
joe  
ryanmkeane : 3/6/2018 2:32 pm : link
if they have conviction that Webb is the guy, it would be really stupid to draft a QB.
Totally agree  
TMS : 3/6/2018 2:34 pm : link
with your conclusions. Barkley or trade down for a lot of picks which could include Nelson or Chubb and a lot of other pieces. Great post
Every guy on the Giants  
chuckydee9 : 3/6/2018 2:37 pm : link
making the decisions this time around was involved in the 2017 draft and they all passed on Webb 3 times.. trust me no one other than media who want to look relevant at this time of the year thinks highly of him to draft over a quality QB this time around.. if any of the QBs available standout to DG or PS then they will take him.. because no one whose job is on the line really thinks highly of Webb..
RE: RE: RE: New regime in place  
Bill L : 3/6/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13852214 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13852191 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


In comment 13852189 EddieNYG said:


Quote:


I don't think Davis Webb is going to determine if they pass on a QB.



People keep saying that...but how would that be the case if they like Webb a lot?

If they like Webb a lot and think he can be a franchise type QB in 2 years...why would they still draft a QB?


I think, if they believe that Webb is the guy, we should hope he emerges sooner than two years from now. Otherwise, he'll only have one year left on his rookie deal which is problematic on two fronts: for one thing, it means they'll have essentially thrown away the benefit of having a young QB and being able to build a roster around his lower salary; secondly, they'll have to make a long-term decision on Webb with only one year of live game experience and without a safety net.

It would be great if Webb was the next franchise QB and he's already drafted and the succession plan is already in place. But it's really just wishful thinking at this point, whether that comes from talking heads like Dilfer or other Giants fans directly. Neither Gettleman nor Shurmur have any reason but to sing his praises at this point, but just remember that the entire league (including the Giants) passed on Webb twice, and nothing since then has provided a reason for anyone to feel more confident about Webb than they should about any other 3rd round pick (and I'm speaking about 3rd round picks in general, not even referencing Reese's abysmal draft record with that round).

It's not impossible that Webb becomes the Giants' next QB. But it's wildly optimistic to depend on it.
NO matter which we go or which rationalization we use, it's wishful thinking for all of us.
RE: Every guy on the Giants  
TMS : 3/6/2018 2:42 pm : link
In comment 13852353 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
making the decisions this time around was involved in the 2017 draft and they all passed on Webb 3 times.. trust me no one other than media who want to look relevant at this time of the year thinks highly of him to draft over a quality QB this time around.. if any of the QBs available standout to DG or PS then they will take him.. because no one whose job is on the line really thinks highly of Webb..
How do you know what their opinion of Webb is ? Everything I read is that it is positive, Stop the BS.
If they love one of the QBs who's available to them at 2  
David B. : 3/6/2018 2:49 pm : link
They take him. PERIOD. Webb has nothing to do with it. As DG said, "you can't have too many good players at a position," and he said that when he was specifically asked about QBs at 2 in the draft. If they end up with two young guys that both look good, they'll have a commodity for trading later.

And as Mayock said, "If they DON'T love one of the QBs who's available to them, they look at Barkley, Chubb" -- or trading down.

Until then, anyone like Dilfer, Raanan or whoever says or writes that they know what the Giants are thinking in regard to this should be laughed at and mocked mercilessly.

And the Giants should give away NOTHING about what they're thinking. Let's hope they have a tighter ship this year, because I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns were open for business on trades for the 1. Regardless of who the Browns (or whoever) take first, the Giants SHOULD be able to get a player THEY LOVE at 2.
RE: RE: RE: New regime in place  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/6/2018 2:51 pm : link
Quote:
I think some fans just want Barkley so badly that they're rationalizing not taking a QB anyway they can.


Ding ding ding
The  
ryanmkeane : 3/6/2018 2:52 pm : link
"you can't have too many good players at a position" really doesn't apply to QB.
RE: RE: Every guy on the Giants  
chuckydee9 : 3/6/2018 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13852358 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 13852353 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


making the decisions this time around was involved in the 2017 draft and they all passed on Webb 3 times.. trust me no one other than media who want to look relevant at this time of the year thinks highly of him to draft over a quality QB this time around.. if any of the QBs available standout to DG or PS then they will take him.. because no one whose job is on the line really thinks highly of Webb..

How do you know what their opinion of Webb is ? Everything I read is that it is positive, Stop the BS.


As I mentioned they all passed on him 3 times at least.. When everyone was looking forward to having a future QB play snaps in a meaningless season.. both his HCs couldn't bring him to take a snap.. Actions speak much louder than words.. there is nothing to like there.. may be in 2-3 more years.. but no one right now knows anything about him..
I'm as bullish about Webb as most anyone,  
Section331 : 3/6/2018 3:01 pm : link
but I fail to see how this administration would have enough intel on him to decide that they won't take a QB in the draft. Sure, they may like what they've seen and/or heard, but I don't see how they could decide their future at the position based on that.

As I've said all along, if the Giants don't take a QB at 2, it won't be because they have faith in Davis Webb, it will be because they don't have faith in any of the guys available.
Compare  
Thegratefulhead : 3/6/2018 3:11 pm : link
Webb Rosen Darnold Allen Mayfield
arm
accuracy
production
Character
health
size
athleticism
turnovers

How would you rank them?
Dilfer is getting $$$  
HoustonGiant : 3/6/2018 3:14 pm : link
From the Giants to spread the misinformation.
chucky  
ryanmkeane : 3/6/2018 3:14 pm : link
just because you pass on someone and then eventually take them, doesn't mean that player can't turn out to be really good. I fail to see what you are getting at with that.

The Giants passed on Victor Cruz in all 7 rounds.
Our new coach is largely responsible for the reigning Super Bowl MVP  
glowrider : 3/6/2018 3:16 pm : link
and the other NFC Championship QB/Offense. I think these guys will just key off the Browns. If Cle takes the RB, we get the QB of our choice. If they take a QB, we prob take the RB unless they truly are buying into one of the QBs. I do not think a trade back is happening simply because the top player in the draft is NOT a QB and we will walk away either with the top QB or the best player in the draft. Don't overthink it here.

Shurmur and Shula know QBs and have PROVEN to develop them. Eli has two more years. Webb on a rookie contract with no wasted space on Geno. QBs clearly don't need to be Tom Brady to win anymore. These offenses are something else.

That should be taken into consideration.
You  
AcidTest : 3/6/2018 3:17 pm : link
don't refuse to take a QB at #2 because of Webb. You do it because none are worth the #2 pick.
RE: Compare  
Section331 : 3/6/2018 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13852410 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Webb Rosen Darnold Allen Mayfield
arm
accuracy
production
Character
health
size
athleticism
turnovers

How would you rank them?


I'll play!

Arm - Allen, Webb, Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield
Accuracy - Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, Webb, Allen
Production - Mayfield, Rosen, Webb, Darnold, Allen
Character - Webb, Allen, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield
Health - No concerns other than Rosen
Size - Allen, Webb, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield
Athleticism - Allen, Mayfield, Webb, Darnold, Rosen
TO's - Mayfield, Rosen, Webb, Darnold, Allen
Last year some of the Giants defensive players  
Rjanyg : 3/6/2018 3:31 pm : link
were saying that the Giants don't need to draft a QB because they felt Webb was doing a great job. They have seen more of Webb than any of us and the Giants have film of his practice reps. It's not like a 3rd round pick is a late round pick.

None of us know what the Giants truly think about Webb.

Maybe the Giants defense knows what we need to know.
RE: RE: Every guy on the Giants  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/6/2018 3:32 pm : link
In comment 13852358 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 13852353 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


making the decisions this time around was involved in the 2017 draft and they all passed on Webb 3 times.. trust me no one other than media who want to look relevant at this time of the year thinks highly of him to draft over a quality QB this time around.. if any of the QBs available standout to DG or PS then they will take him.. because no one whose job is on the line really thinks highly of Webb..

How do you know what their opinion of Webb is ? Everything I read is that it is positive, Stop the BS.

There is absolutely no benefit to having anything but glowing reviews come out about Webb. If they want to draft a QB, praising Webb helps mask their intentions. If they don't have a conviction about any of the QBs in this draft, praising Webb helps his confidence. If they are confident in Webb as their future QB, then of course they're going to praise him - why would they say anything negative?

I'm not saying that their praise is necessarily some sort of smokescreen, but I don't think you can draw any conclusion at all about it since there is not a scenario at all where they'd say anything but overwhelmingly positive things about Webb. It's the appropriate answer in all potential scenarios, so it means absolutely nothing.

If you think the front office and/or coaching staff has some sort of obligation to make sure you know how they honestly feel about anything as they lead up to the draft, you're just being naive.
If Eli was getting "benched", told to sit the second half, whatever  
TommytheElephant : 3/6/2018 3:33 pm : link
Then Webb should have been out there vs. Oakland
RE: Every guy on the Giants  
section125 : 3/6/2018 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13852353 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
making the decisions this time around was involved in the 2017 draft and they all passed on Webb 3 times.. trust me no one other than media who want to look relevant at this time of the year thinks highly of him to draft over a quality QB this time around.. if any of the QBs available standout to DG or PS then they will take him.. because no one whose job is on the line really thinks highly of Webb..


Gettleman had Newton, why would he draft a QB? Shurmur had Bradford and Bridgewater, why would he need a QB?

Think before you post.
RE: RE: Compare  
GFAN52 : 3/6/2018 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13852425 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13852410 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


Webb Rosen Darnold Allen Mayfield
arm
accuracy
production
Character
health
size
athleticism
turnovers

How would you rank them?



I'll play!

Arm - Allen, Webb, Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield
Accuracy - Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, Webb, Allen
Production - Mayfield, Rosen, Webb, Darnold, Allen
Character - Webb, Allen, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield
Health - No concerns other than Rosen
Size - Allen, Webb, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield
Athleticism - Allen, Mayfield, Webb, Darnold, Rosen
TO's - Mayfield, Rosen, Webb, Darnold, Allen


Nicely done. One little quibble on size, Rosen is bigger than Darnold.
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