but based only on some quick browsing online, Rams fans don't seem very upset that he's gone. A lot of them were upset with his play, mainly all the missed tackles. I liked him coming out of college but haven't seen much of him on the Rams so I'm neutral on the trade assuming it's not a huge cap hit. But Bettcher must see something in him and the way he would fit in the defense and I'm happy about that. Draft pick wise, they didn't give up much. The cap is the main concern with this trade.
Do teams need to have a minimum number of picks in each draft? The goal is to acquire talent, not bodies.
The Giants are rebuilding. They seem to want to turn over the roster quite a bit to get "professional football players" and "hog mollies" that fit what the new GM and coaches are trying to do. In that situation, you want picks. It's not like they have a loaded roster and are trying to fill a single weak spot. They have plenty of needs.
No way in round 1
Sy'56 : 3/8/2013 9:40 am : link
He is NOT a run defender. He can't take on blocks. His effort isn't always there. Not a physical presence.
I imagine Bettcher plans to use him like he previously used Buchanon in Arizona, kind of a LB/S hybrid role.
No way in round 1
Sy'56 : 3/8/2013 9:40 am : link
He is NOT a run defender. He can't take on blocks. His effort isn't always there. Not a physical presence.
I imagine Bettcher plans to use him like he previously used Buchanon in Arizona, kind of a LB/S hybrid role.
I agree. At 6'3" 235 he's built more like a big safety anyway
About hiring Gettleman at first but that all changed a few days later when he cut hart and fired Ross. This guy is a completely different GM then Reese and I love it. Reese would never ever made a trade like this never.
Rams in a pinch and need to create cap room...what a difference having a GM ready to act and take advantage. Locking down a good new starting LB before free agency and the draft. Love it.
No way in round 1
Sy'56 : 3/8/2013 9:40 am : link
He is NOT a run defender. He can't take on blocks. His effort isn't always there. Not a physical presence.
I imagine Bettcher plans to use him like he previously used Buchanon in Arizona, kind of a LB/S hybrid role.
I agree. At 6'3" 235 he's built more like a big safety anyway
Pretty sure Ogletree played safety in college, right? Point being, he fits what modern LBs are evolving into
Ogletree will be playing behind Snacks and Tomlinson vs. Donald and Brockers. While Donald is arguably the best DT in football he is a at his best penetrating the OL where Snacks and Tomlinson tie up OL keeping the LB's relatively clean.
No way in round 1
Sy'56 : 3/8/2013 9:40 am : link
He is NOT a run defender. He can't take on blocks. His effort isn't always there. Not a physical presence.
I imagine Bettcher plans to use him like he previously used Buchanon in Arizona, kind of a LB/S hybrid role.
I agree. At 6'3" 235 he's built more like a big safety anyway
Pretty sure Ogletree played safety in college, right? Point being, he fits what modern LBs are evolving into
I think you are right. To me, this move has Bettcher written all over it. It's the chess piece he needs.
I'd take an Ogletree (or plug in any established veteran even if he's only league average) over any pick after a 2nd round pick.
Just for reference, this is the success of a ten year study of draft picks by position and "success" was very easily defined as "starting more than half their games".
When I see these numbers for 4th and 6th round picks, and I see fans fret the Giants only have 5 picks and no 6th or 7th round pick. SO WHAT? The odds of hitting on those picks are remote, the odds of the player being at least decent is likely. Trade away.
And no don't trade down to accumulate more useless picks just to have more picks. That's a stupid strategy.
Quote:
Historic Success Chart
The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters:
1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)
2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)
3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)
4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)
5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)
6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)
7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)
Actually. Ogletree played inside last year and was there through the transition from the 4-3 to Wade Phillips' 3-4. This is a money move I think, Donald has to be paid and the Rams have tagged one DB and another that is hitting UFA.
If anyone hasn't looked at the BBI discussion on Ogletree vs. Arthur Brown, it's worth a look and a chuckle. Arthur WHO you may ask? The Arthur Brown many clamored as being the superior LB to Ogletree in the 2013 draft. The Arthur Brown who has 20 career tackles, is a street free agent and has been on 4 teams in 5 years. THAT Arthur Brown.
is basically a 5th.. the 6 carries little weight. This is great value. NYG got this deal because the Rams are backed against the cap with important pieces in need of new contracts.
Ogletree will be playing behind Snacks and Tomlinson vs. Donald and Brockers. While Donald is arguably the best DT in football he is a at his best penetrating the OL where Snacks and Tomlinson tie up OL keeping the LB's relatively clean.
Exactly
As I said earlier, one of the reasons his PFF grade slipped. The Rams scheme shifted dramatically last year. Ogeltree is not an edge guy in the 3-4, not big enough and he's too small to MLB in a scheme that asks the DTs to penetrate.
Giants fans should be pleased with the idea of the four starting LBs potentially being OV, Ogletree, BJ Goodson, and Kennard. And that list still has room for improvement.
@PatKirwanRFN
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really like Ogeltree to the Giants-7mil roster due 3/16 time to convert it to a signing bonus and getting 5.25 cal space back
@PatKirwanRFN
5m5 minutes ago
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really like Ogeltree to the Giants-7mil roster due 3/16 time to convert it to a signing bonus and getting 5.25 cal space back
picks if Pugh and/or Richburg sign elsewhere, especially at the inflated $$s being bandied about? Anybody know for sure? If so, that almost makes this a freebie.
picks if Pugh and/or Richburg sign elsewhere, especially at the inflated $$s being bandied about? Anybody know for sure? If so, that almost makes this a freebie.
Comp picks are figured out after the season. So any comp picks for Pugh and Richburg would be figured out after 2018 season for the 2019 draft.
picks if Pugh and/or Richburg sign elsewhere, especially at the inflated $$s being bandied about? Anybody know for sure? If so, that almost makes this a freebie.
Good question - could be offset by FAs we sign, right?
Thinking Moneybacker here. He certainly is not an outside LB in a 3-4.
Bettcher will be multiple.
Sy'56 : 3/8/2013 9:40 am : link
He is NOT a run defender. He can't take on blocks. His effort isn't always there. Not a physical presence.
I imagine Bettcher plans to use him like he previously used Buchanon in Arizona, kind of a LB/S hybrid role.
Justin Pugh.
Quote:
No way in round 1
Sy'56 : 3/8/2013 9:40 am : link
He is NOT a run defender. He can't take on blocks. His effort isn't always there. Not a physical presence.
I imagine Bettcher plans to use him like he previously used Buchanon in Arizona, kind of a LB/S hybrid role.
I agree. At 6'3" 235 he's built more like a big safety anyway
Ooof! Lots of people on that thread high on Arthur Brown as a better LB than Ogletree.
We got a 2019 7th round pick and one hell of a LB. Abrams will figure out the cap stuff.
This is a good move by Gettlemen. I do think this increases our chances of trading back a little and picking up some picks.
Rams in a pinch and need to create cap room...what a difference having a GM ready to act and take advantage. Locking down a good new starting LB before free agency and the draft. Love it.
Quote:
In comment 13853789 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
No way in round 1
Sy'56 : 3/8/2013 9:40 am : link
He is NOT a run defender. He can't take on blocks. His effort isn't always there. Not a physical presence.
I imagine Bettcher plans to use him like he previously used Buchanon in Arizona, kind of a LB/S hybrid role.
I agree. At 6'3" 235 he's built more like a big safety anyway
Pretty sure Ogletree played safety in college, right? Point being, he fits what modern LBs are evolving into
So if I like this trade, then you know its a real good day... ; )
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In comment 13853802 AcesUp said:
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In comment 13853789 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
No way in round 1
Sy'56 : 3/8/2013 9:40 am : link
He is NOT a run defender. He can't take on blocks. His effort isn't always there. Not a physical presence.
I imagine Bettcher plans to use him like he previously used Buchanon in Arizona, kind of a LB/S hybrid role.
I agree. At 6'3" 235 he's built more like a big safety anyway
Pretty sure Ogletree played safety in college, right? Point being, he fits what modern LBs are evolving into
I think you are right. To me, this move has Bettcher written all over it. It's the chess piece he needs.
Lots of changes in LA.
I'd take an Ogletree (or plug in any established veteran even if he's only league average) over any pick after a 2nd round pick.
Just for reference, this is the success of a ten year study of draft picks by position and "success" was very easily defined as "starting more than half their games".
When I see these numbers for 4th and 6th round picks, and I see fans fret the Giants only have 5 picks and no 6th or 7th round pick. SO WHAT? The odds of hitting on those picks are remote, the odds of the player being at least decent is likely. Trade away.
And no don't trade down to accumulate more useless picks just to have more picks. That's a stupid strategy.
Quote:
Historic Success Chart
The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters:
1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)
2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)
3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)
4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)
5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)
6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)
7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)
+1
You know what I meant
If anyone hasn't looked at the BBI discussion on Ogletree vs. Arthur Brown, it's worth a look and a chuckle. Arthur WHO you may ask? The Arthur Brown many clamored as being the superior LB to Ogletree in the 2013 draft. The Arthur Brown who has 20 career tackles, is a street free agent and has been on 4 teams in 5 years. THAT Arthur Brown.
Very good trade for Gettleman.
Exactly
As I said earlier, one of the reasons his PFF grade slipped. The Rams scheme shifted dramatically last year. Ogeltree is not an edge guy in the 3-4, not big enough and he's too small to MLB in a scheme that asks the DTs to penetrate.
Giants fans should be pleased with the idea of the four starting LBs potentially being OV, Ogletree, BJ Goodson, and Kennard. And that list still has room for improvement.
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@PatKirwanRFN
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really like Ogeltree to the Giants-7mil roster due 3/16 time to convert it to a signing bonus and getting 5.25 cal space back
Lots of changes in LA.
Quinn didn't fit their new scheme either. The Rams had paid a lot for good defensive talent that ended up not fitting Wade Philips scheme.
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@PatKirwanRFN
5m5 minutes ago
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really like Ogeltree to the Giants-7mil roster due 3/16 time to convert it to a signing bonus and getting 5.25 cal space back
Genius
Ogletree tackled Odell late, out of bounds and Odell threw the ball at him, starting everything
I'm the president of the Odell hater fan club but I don't think that means anything. That was a long time ago.
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something that Reese would never, ever do. Take a sure thing at LB instead of a shot in the dark in rounds 4-6.
Reese would trade the picks to move up to take some scrub a little bit earlier
Ryan Nassib if I recall
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in the trade for KC's Marcus Peters. They also tagged Joyner.
Lots of changes in LA.
Quinn didn't fit their new scheme either. The Rams had paid a lot for good defensive talent that ended up not fitting Wade Philips scheme.
Donald doesnt really fit the scheme either. But the guys so good it didnt matter.
Who are the outside LBers?
Who are the outside LBers?
Probably Vernon and JPP. Maybe Kennard.
So they got him for a sixth. Teams don't dump good players for a compensatory 4th and a sixth.
Comp picks are figured out after the season. So any comp picks for Pugh and Richburg would be figured out after 2018 season for the 2019 draft.
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The 4th rounder they traded is the company pick
So they got him for a sixth. Teams don't dump good players for a compensatory 4th and a sixth.
Better players have been traded for less.
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The 4th rounder they traded is the company pick
So they got him for a sixth. Teams don't dump good players for a compensatory 4th and a sixth.
I thought you couldn't trade compensatory picks. Did the rule change?
Good question - could be offset by FAs we sign, right?
Quote:
In comment 13853820 cjac said:
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The 4th rounder they traded is the company pick
So they got him for a sixth. Teams don't dump good players for a compensatory 4th and a sixth.
Better players have been traded for less.
Like who? Not sarcasm, trying to think of an example.
Quote:
In comment 13853820 cjac said:
Quote:
The 4th rounder they traded is the company pick
So they got him for a sixth. Teams don't dump good players for a compensatory 4th and a sixth.
I thought you couldn't trade compensatory picks. Did the rule change?
It did.