The Ogletree trade is just another sign, IMO, that the Giants are not taking a QB 2nd overall. Instead, they are focusing on putting the best possible roster around Eli Manning.
Teams who are taking a young QB usually don't trade draft picks to acquire players who are in the prime of their career. This is a win-now move, and I feel like the #2 pick will also be a win-now move rather than taking a rookie QB who is going to sit on the bench.
IMO, the pick is either going to be Barkley, Chubb, or possibly a trade down to 5 or 6 to grab Nelson, who likely won't come off the board until the Bucs pick otherwise.
I'm sure some will say this is an overreaction, but everything being reported by the media and said by the Giants brass has been that they won't take a QB.
Now, they move a 32 year old CB to FS instead of getting rid of him to clear cap space to sign younger players, and they trade 2 draft picks for a 26 year old LB who can help them immediately.
Agreed but I think it will be less likely if the Norwell rumors turn out to be true.
Then, I think it comes down to Barkley or Bradley Chubb.
Pretty sure we can rule out a trade down for Edmunds/Roquan
I think Denver at 5 is a real opportunity. No chance we trade with the Jets
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They'd get an absolute haul.
Agreed but I think it will be less likely if the Norwell rumors turn out to be true.
Then, I think it comes down to Barkley or Bradley Chubb.
Pretty sure we can rule out a trade down for Edmunds/Roquan
They need probably 3 new starters on the line. Nelson and Norwell could play together.
I would not trade back to 6. I would trade back to 4th then trade back to 6th after that. You could get a kings ransom. and be ready to rebuild this team and compete this year.
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In comment 13853937 Jon in NYC said:
Agreed - so many unknowns though. Cleveland could
Take Nelson at 4 - then who would we draft ?
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They'd get an absolute haul.
Agreed but I think it will be less likely if the Norwell rumors turn out to be true.
Then, I think it comes down to Barkley or Bradley Chubb.
Pretty sure we can rule out a trade down for Edmunds/Roquan
They need probably 3 new starters on the line. Nelson and Norwell could play together.
Sorry I should have phrased that better- but everything they've said has been hinting towards keeping Eli and building around him/not taking a QB.
-We believe Eli has years left
-That game vs. Philly was not a mirage
-We want to draft a hall of fame caliber player at #2
-We are going to take the best player available
-We graded Davis Webb out highly, we liked him in the 2017 NFL draft
The question is do they like Nelson enough to sacrifice their ability to add to their roster. I don't think of the colts as an offensive lineman away from being fixed.
I've heard a ton of people saying Chubb is the guy they should draft
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This would be news.
Sorry I should have phrased that better- but everything they've said has been hinting towards keeping Eli and building around him/not taking a QB.
-We believe Eli has years left
-That game vs. Philly was not a mirage
-We want to draft a hall of fame caliber player at #2
-We are going to take the best player available
-We graded Davis Webb out highly, we liked him in the 2017 NFL draft
If you believe what any team is talking about in their press conferences around draft and free agency.
Which, I think is kind of a mistake. The media also reported that there was going to be an effort to hide their intentions more effectively.
Now, could he play better in a different scheme. Hells yes, but this doesn’t scream the writings on the wall.
draft QB
And you think this means Barkley, trade down or Nelson/Chubb
Well. Woundnt they have devalued their trade position by ruling out QB in the media? The Jets & Broncos could sit tight at 6 guaranteed to get 1 of tbe 4 and Giants passing and Browns taking only 1?
Wouldnt they habe also tipped off Browns to take Barkley at 1?
Wouldnt they be hurting 2 of their potential moves?
OR maybe media is clueless as they were on HC who had Wilks and then Patricia as the guy?
draft QB
And you think this means Barkley, trade down or Nelson/Chubb
Well. Woundnt they have devalued their trade position by ruling out QB in the media? The Jets & Broncos could sit tight at 6 guaranteed to get 1 of tbe 4 and Giants passing and Browns taking only 1?
Wouldnt they habe also tipped off Browns to take Barkley at 1?
Wouldnt they be hurting 2 of their potential moves?
OR maybe media is clueless as they were on HC who had Wilks and then Patricia as the guy?
This is just my feeling- I really don't see a QB at #2 as of now. Maybe they really like Darnold- and if he falls past the Browns they take him, but if I were a betting man I'd wager that they go in another direction other than QB with the 2nd pick
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IND is going to go hard after Nelson?
The question is do they like Nelson enough to sacrifice their ability to add to their roster. I don't think of the colts as an offensive lineman away from being fixed.
Agreed. I also don't think this trade will affect what we do in the draft. It was just about getting a good player at a position of need at a very fair price.
DG says, "I like proven commodities for a mid-round and late round pick, John", and Jints Central pulls the trigger. Probably sees a younger Thomas Davis...
So I'm not sure there is a win now approach underneath this...I think there is an add-more-talent approach...
DG says, "I like proven commodities for a mid-round and late round pick, John", and Jints Central pulls the trigger. Probably sees a younger Thomas Davis...
So I'm not sure there is a win now approach underneath this...I think there is an add-more-talent approach...
This seems likely to me.
Was I dreaming or were the Giants not 0-5 with the full roster healthy? This is a terrible team with an old aging qb and we will regret not taking a qb when for the next decade we are scrambling looking for qb
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This would be news.
Sorry I should have phrased that better- but everything they've said has been hinting towards keeping Eli and building around him/not taking a QB.
-We believe Eli has years left
-That game vs. Philly was not a mirage
-We want to draft a hall of fame caliber player at #2
-We are going to take the best player available
-We graded Davis Webb out highly, we liked him in the 2017 NFL draft
The game vs Philly was not a mirage? Did DG watch the tape of the following game in AZ? Or we only count games where eli has a lot of yards? Eli in that game had 68 passing yards late in the 4th quarter vs a terrible AZ team
+2. I don't see how this telegraphs anything else the Giants do in FA or the draft. Except we now have one less whole to fill
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They'd get an absolute haul.
Agreed but I think it will be less likely if the Norwell rumors turn out to be true.
Then, I think it comes down to Barkley or Bradley Chubb.
Pretty sure we can rule out a trade down for Edmunds/Roquan
Agreed. I don't think they draft Nelson if they sign Norwell.
I think it's Barkley at 2 if he's there but if he's gone, I think a trade back to either 4 or 5 and they'd go Fitzpatrick if they sign Norwell, Nelson if they don't.
Right... just like Philly would never win a title ever let alone in 2017.
Save me this crap. Teams surprise all the time. literally... all the time. Fans always say never and then quietly go away when never actually happens.
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considering they're not winning a championship this year.
Right... just like Philly would never win a title ever let alone in 2017.
Save me this crap. Teams surprise all the time. literally... all the time. Fans always say never and then quietly go away when never actually happens.
Sorry to break it to you but the Giants are not winning another SB with Eli at qb....Good luck thinking that this will happen....unless the Giants build a HOF team around him and ask him to hand the ball off....ALA PEYTON Manning last year...How are those Broncos doing now?
I actually think they should if there is a guy they really like and believe in
this trade doesn't indicate some kind of long term or short term plan. Calm down lol.
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reality is the Giants where not as bad as they played last year. They lost the entire wr core. The oline will be fixed this year and the defense was not that bad. Hell people where saying the Giants would be in the Superbowl.
Was I dreaming or were the Giants not 0-5 with the full roster healthy? This is a terrible team with an old aging qb and we will regret not taking a qb when for the next decade we are scrambling looking for qb
Agreed. I am extremely skeptical of this franchise. Collectively, this team has not made many good decisions since 2012. Why are we all giving them the benefit of the doubt right now? They should have to endear themselves back to us. To start, the sham GM search should tip us all off that this is more business as usual for this team. They've made the playoffs, what, twice in the past 10 years?
Building around a 37 year old declining qb will set this franchise back far more than being wrong on a qb at 2. I hope that this is not the mind set, because we could end up in a endless loop of a qb search, similar to post Simms.
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In comment 13853962 Dave in Hoboken said:
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considering they're not winning a championship this year.
Right... just like Philly would never win a title ever let alone in 2017.
Save me this crap. Teams surprise all the time. literally... all the time. Fans always say never and then quietly go away when never actually happens.
Sorry to break it to you but the Giants are not winning another SB with Eli at qb....Good luck thinking that this will happen....unless the Giants build a HOF team around him and ask him to hand the ball off....ALA PEYTON Manning last year...How are those Broncos doing now?
What?
No. This is clearly a sign that the Giants are building around Eli. And they have no shot with Eli by the way have you seen the broncos lately??
Ps the broncos did actually win a super bowl with a broken down Peyton. Yeah.
"We're not drafting a QB" -- Barkley fan
This is what I want, or Chubb at 6. Looks like a safe bet one or the other would be available.
The extra 2’s would let the Giants hit on value at need spots.
The Reese regime left OL and LB completely neglected to the noticement of absoluteky everyone and their brother.
The Boss CEO move is to come in and immediately address OL and LB
Norwell will be the FA move and they went trade route on LB
Who did you plagiarize?
Barkley
Darnold or Rosen
Trade down:
Chubb
Nelson
One of these 5 has to be a Giant by the end of draft day 1.
I hope it’s either Barkley straight up or Nelson via trade down.
I couldn't resist.
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IND is going to go hard after Nelson?
Don't know why I didn't think of that. If Luck comes back they must protect him
There's always the chance that the Browns go with Darnold and we pass on Barkley for Rosen. Then the Colts have Barkley fall into their laps.
Here is mine DG was clearly talking about Rosen's interview. Definitely going QB at 2 and it will b e Rosen because we need "Smart" players.....This is not sarcasm, I thought we were going Barkley but I am now convinced the will be Rosen. DG was talking in code :)
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In comment 13853937 Jon in NYC said:
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They'd get an absolute haul.
Agreed but I think it will be less likely if the Norwell rumors turn out to be true.
Then, I think it comes down to Barkley or Bradley Chubb.
Pretty sure we can rule out a trade down for Edmunds/Roquan
Agreed. I don't think they draft Nelson if they sign Norwell.
I think it's Barkley at 2 if he's there but if he's gone, I think a trade back to either 4 or 5 and they'd go Fitzpatrick if they sign Norwell, Nelson if they don't.
This will be the scenario. You take the best player available at #2. If Barkley is there, you can bet DG will take him. How many running backs of past #1-3 draft positions are of the same caliber of Barkley?? IF he's still there, you can't let that pass you by. I think CLE will take him #1 overall though, he's more of a sure thing than the QB's are....
They know Eli is short timer and need a long term solution. Plus, they need a "cheap" QB in a couple of years so they can afford OBJ and Collins.
The Chiefs used two #1s and a 3 to draft a QB who sat on the bench all last year. The Chiefs were a playoff team. The Giants only need to use one #1 to get their QB of the future.
The Giants had almost no LBrs on the team. They want to be competitive and made this move. The newD coordinator actually uses LBrs in his defense. Big deal that they gave a couple of day 3 picks.
I can see them drafting QB at 2 while trying to make a run this year. Eli's contract is extremely vulnerable next year, there are cap savings there. This could easily be part of the plan for a seamless transition. If the team is performing well and makes sense to part with Eli, you hand the young QB the reigns to an ascending team. If the bottom falls out, it is now possible to move on from Eli, OV, JPP and even Ogletree clearing out significant cap room. You at least have your QB of the future st this point. I'm not saying that this is their plan, but it is a scenario that makes sense if you look at the way these contracts are constructed.
What do you think would be done differently that would tell you we are drafting a qb?
I really have a hard time thinking that the Giants trading their bonus 4th round pick they didn't even know they were getting two weeks ago is a statement of their plan. It's a really minimal trade.
Was LB a need? Is getting a proven commodity for that need for only a 4th round unproven pick smart? Are contracts always re-negotiated in later years?
If yes to those, WTF does that have to do with Eli?
A compensatory 4th is for all intents and purposes a fifth round draft pick.
This. What was that stat again? Beckkham is the only Giant who would absolutely have started for last year's Eagles?
I think you have issues understanding what a stat is
Passing on a QB doesn't plunge the team into the stone age, I think it puts them in that miserable 6-10 to 8-8 gray area unless they sell off everyone of value and tank to draft high again, which I don't think they have ever done or want to do.
Whenever Eli moves on, if they don't draft a QB, you're looking at a period of time where they fill the job with whatever floats onto the free agent market at QB.
That's really not an appealing option. Kirk Cousins is the most appealing Free Agent QB to hit the market in a really long time, and I can't imagine anyone here would be okay with that. I wouldn't want to have to give that guy $100m.
Or it shows that they're are going to take a QB because they need to get Elis money off the books after 2018.
Short of them signing Cousins or Keenum no free agency move affects them taking a QB 2.
beltchers system requires a couple of flexible 4-3/3-4 switch capable LB's to make it work ogletree and possibly kennard could be the guys that make that possible
if they want another QB they could take rudolph in round 2 who i like better than any of the 1st round guys at 2 your not planing on starting anyone but eli next season so a second pick isnt best used there a game changer year 1 is more likely barkley,chubb and fitzpatrick and maybe nelson or brown after a slight move back then get guice or michel maybe with one of the other second round picks a move back nets them assuming barkley is gone elsewhere of course
i dont think the team has been anything but open about the fact they view eli as the guy right now and are hoping for a ransom too good to pass for a team that does want one of the top draft picks at QB and is willing to pay big to get them
Cleveland takes Barkley......Giants almost have to pick qb here, for the future......however, if a Mike Ditka GM, is on the phone, you have to listen......
And as we all know, all in all, it's just another brick in the wall....
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This would be news.
Sorry I should have phrased that better- but everything they've said has been hinting towards keeping Eli and building around him/not taking a QB.
-We believe Eli has years left
-That game vs. Philly was not a mirage
-We want to draft a hall of fame caliber player at #2
-We are going to take the best player available
-We graded Davis Webb out highly, we liked him in the 2017 NFL draft
The thing is, all of these so-called hints are exactly the same things you'd expect a team that is dead set on drafting a QB to say. There is nothing to be gleaned from any of the quotes or hints or anything else coming out, because there is really no other message you should be expecting to hear from the team regardless of their intentions.
What did the Giants do when Eli was a wet nosed 2nd year QB? They went on a spending spree in the 05 offseason.
You guys are reaching.
Gettleman has made it clear that he wants to end the leaks and he doesn't want their intentions broadcast across the league. Putting 2 and 2 together is telling me that he's trying ot throw teams off the scent.
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They'd get an absolute haul.
I think Denver at 5 is a real opportunity. No chance we trade with the Jets
I certainly hope we don’t rule out a trade because it’s the Jets. That would be mind numbing lay stupid.
p.s.--Nada!
This is a step to correct this blatant oversight by adding the best LB we've put on the field since Antonio Pierce.