That’s what ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay thinks at least. McShay said Wednesday he believes USC’s Sam Darnold and Wyoming’s Josh Allen are now viewed by many NFL teams as a cut above UCLA’s Josh Rosen and Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield. McShay has Allen going to the Jets with the sixth pick in his latest mock draft.
“If Darnold’s off the board, I can’t speak for the Jets right now, they’re probably still in their decision-making process, but I think [Allen] would fit the climate that they’re going to have to play in for a portion of the year,” McShay said in a conference call with reporters, “and I think for a lot of teams it’s become a little bit of a separation with Darnold and Allen at the top and then maybe Baker and Rosen a slight notch below. That doesn’t mean that’s for all teams. Certainly there are varying views on this year’s quarterback class.”
Link - (
New Window )
His physical abilities are through the roof and seems totally clean otherwise. He is going to surprise.
I agree. Been saying this for months.
I’m with you. He had a good offensive line to boot. I just don’t see it with him. He’s got the arm and throws a beautiful ball. That’s where it starts and ends. Allen reminds me of Big Ben. Same knocks coming out. Weakcompetiton anf accuracy problems. Hmmmm sure seemed to work well for Pitt. Give me allen or darnold. I want no part of man child mayfield and fragile josh(channeling my inner trump nicknames)
Quote:
least of them all.
He’s got the arm and throws a beautiful ball. That’s where it starts and ends.
Which, coincidentally, is where it starts and ends for NFL QBs.
At least the Giants have Manning and Webb. They have QB's. Some teams like NY Jets and Arizona have basically nothing. Even the Browns have Kizer, which isn't saying much.
So a 37 year old declining qb and an unknown 3rd round lottery ticket equate to something? Most teams have a Webb. The Giants are in need of a qb like many other teams in the league now. The days of not caring about the qb position are quickly coming to a close for our team.
Quote:
on these quarterbacks are all over the map. Impossible to predict anything
I'm shocked that Rosen isn't the consensus #1. I really can't see any glaring negatives about his game.
Don't believe the hype...
Again though, lets say the Giants did have Rosen clearly above the rest, or any team for that matter, why would they make that known? The fact that there is so much ambiguity around the league on the QB rankings only helps teams hide their true rankings.
Again though, lets say the Giants did have Rosen clearly above the rest, or any team for that matter, why would they make that known? The fact that there is so much ambiguity around the league on the QB rankings only helps teams hide their true rankings.
Carve out Jints Central for a moment. I think McShay is fairly dialed in. So I would imagine he's connected with a significant sample to make his statement. Unless there is collusion going on between GMS - which would be quite unusual ;) - I have to think this is the opinion du jour for this QB class...
If #1 goes to Barkley, they can trade (including with Cleveland) with all those teams coveting one of the two or if Giants are sold on Rosen, they take him.
To have 4 QB's as top of the first round talents is a lot of QB's and makes this QB class one of the best in recent years, and possibly the best since the Eli, River, and Big Ben draft class of 2004, I don't feel that is an over statement.
It could turn out to look a whole lot worse in 10 years, but it could possible be one of the all time greatest QB classes in NFL history too. So to even think this is not a good year to draft a QB, is pretty crazy. The Giants may not draft a QB, and may not live to regret that decision either, but I think this QB class will turn out to be a very good one and some teams are going to be very happy.
He is.
See here - ( New Window )
I think it's the "rich kid" narrative that is driving what you've identified in your post.
I've heard a number of radio talk show hosts say, essentially, that rich kids don't want to play football badly enough because its not their way to a better life", or some other bullshit like that.
This narrative is being used to knock Rosen.
Quote:
...is represented by CAA.
He is.
The height doesn't worry me- he's over 6'0. He is an inch and a half shorter than Rodgers, and Trubisky, who are both exactly 6'2. Is being the size of the tip of your pointer finger smaller really that much of a deterrent?
His play-style actually reminds me a bit of Aaron Rodgers, and his arm strength looks well above average to me. I saw him chuck one 65 yards in the air and hit the WR in stride for a TD vs Texas.
His play-style doesn't worry me either- the NFL is trending towards QB's who can move around and make plays outside of the structure of the play. He had no problem playing behind and seeing over an NFL sized OL at Oklahoma.
If we are going QB, I'd like him or Darnold.
I've heard a number of radio talk show hosts say, essentially, that rich kids don't want to play football badly enough because its not their way to a better life", or some other bullshit like that.
This narrative is being used to knock Rosen.
Cris Carter, I mentioned yesterday, was pushing this narrative. Did say, however, offspring from a father who played in the NFL - like Mannings, Matthews, Slater, etc - had a better chance to do well because they were exposed to the culture and knew the work required...
(To be fair, he mentioned his own son, who is currently in the CFL, for likely not making it to the NFL because of his cozy, plush upbringing.)
The height doesn't worry me- he's over 6'0. He is an inch and a half shorter than Rodgers, and Trubisky, who are both exactly 6'2. Is being the size of the tip of your pointer finger smaller really that much of a deterrent?
His play-style actually reminds me a bit of Aaron Rodgers, and his arm strength looks well above average to me. I saw him chuck one 65 yards in the air and hit the WR in stride for a TD vs Texas.
His play-style doesn't worry me either- the NFL is trending towards QB's who can move around and make plays outside of the structure of the play. He had no problem playing behind and seeing over an NFL sized OL at Oklahoma.
If we are going QB, I'd like him or Darnold.
When I watch clips, he reminds me of Russell Wilson.
It boggles my mind that the pro Rosen crowd so easily dismisses Rosen’s multiple game missing concussions in 2017. When his family’s wealth and his father’s occupation as neuro/spine surgeon are factored in Rosen having a long NFL career (a shorter career is one of the arguments against Barkley) seems very unlikely.
Rosen is probably the only “throw the remote” pick the Giants could make at 2nd overall (or even after a trade down).
Quote:
People are sleeping on this guy due to completion % and competition.
His physical abilities are through the roof and seems totally clean otherwise. He is going to surprise.
Oh ffs, no one is "sleeping" on Allen, he's clearly highly rated, just not on BBI. His completion % is a legitimate concern, not even 60% in a pretty poor conference isn't confidence inspiring.
Strange how the poor play of his receivers is ignored. His completion % (adjusted for drops) is > 70%.
I also find it odd that people keep harping on his size when his measurables don't seem to reflect that at all.
The thing I like better about Darnold is the mobility
It boggles my mind that the pro Rosen crowd so easily dismisses Rosen’s multiple game missing concussions in 2017. When his family’s wealth and his father’s occupation as neuro/spine surgeon are factored in Rosen having a long NFL career (a shorter career is one of the arguments against Barkley) seems very unlikely.
Rosen is probably the only “throw the remote” pick the Giants could make at 2nd overall (or even after a trade down).
Hopefully when you throw the remote it bounces off the tv and hits you in the face.
Big Ben whiner has heart? No, it worked out for Pitt because of Top 5 defenses every year (in his early years).
Quote:
People are sleeping on this guy due to completion % and competition.
His physical abilities are through the roof and seems totally clean otherwise. He is going to surprise.
Not if he cannot complete passes. I think if he was a 60% or greater completion percentage guy, yes he'd be #1. But I think him being against lower level competition and still being at only 57% is a problem.
If you put Allen on UCLA he's a 65% passer at least. The 57% completion percentage stat doesn't have anything to do with his actual accuracy, which is very good.
Darnold & Allen are CAA
Rosen is Athletes First
Mayfield is with a smaller group in Colorado
How does refusing to throw end up being a plus?
How does refusing to throw end up being a plus?
I heard Mayock on WFAN today and he said there's not only concern about his past injury history but also concern about him holding up going forward vs pro talent.
Seems to be a feeling out there he gets hurt too easy and it's just a matter of time before he goes down in the NFL. Thinking is it would be sooner rather than later, and there are big concerns about him being able to withstand the hits he'd take in the pocket.
Quote:
that there is real concern, as there should be, about Rosen's medical history. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense to me to say there is this noteworthy gap from Allen/Darnold to the others. Rosen's throwing skills are just too pronounced...
I heard Mayock on WFAN today and he said there's not only concern about his past injury history but also concern about him holding up going forward vs pro talent.
Seems to be a feeling out there he gets hurt too easy and it's just a matter of time before he goes down in the NFL. Thinking is it would be sooner rather than later, and there are big concerns about him being able to withstand the hits he'd take in the pocket.
I admit, despite being a fan of his, that feels legitimate. Last full season he played was his frosh year. Missed significant time last year with the shoulder and this year with the concussion. Investing in a prospect who may not be able to stay upright is not good ROI potential...
Quote:
Investing in a prospect who may not be able to stay upright is not good ROI potential...
Every time they sign a check in the NFL they are investing in someone who may not be able to stay upright. No guts, no glory.
I wasn't trying to draw you out, but had a feeling you may pop up on this... ;)
But not all prospects and their medical characteristics are creates equal. And therein lies the rub with Mr. Rosen...
But not all prospects and their medical characteristics are creates equal. And therein lies the rub with Mr. Rosen...
If there was another QB prospect as good as Rosen, but without the same injury history, I would prefer him over Rosen. But it would have to be that close for Rosen's injuries to be enough to drop him below any of the others.
I'm reminded of the legal question: what's worse, letting a guilty guy go free or convicting an innocent man? And the easy answer is: convicting the innocent man, because not only have you convicted an innocent man, but the guilty guy is still on the loose. So it is with comparing Rosen to the other top QBs. Rosen may be more likely to struggle with injuries than the others, but it's not as if the others are immune to injury. On the other hand, Rosen is the only one of the four who is already able to do everything the NFL will demand of him. There are no leaps of faith required with him.
Is it possible that a team like the Giants or jets or broncos spun up a tale about rosen? "Not popular with teammates" - just seems weird to me. Who even cares.
I wish I could remember his exact words, but in 1997 Miami Dolphins HC Jimmy Johnson said he wouldn't want to spend a 1st round pick on a guy like Yatil Green (Univ. of Miami) because of his history of injuries. So sure enough he drafts Green with his first round pick (#15 overall). And what happens?
Quote:
In comment 13855650 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Investing in a prospect who may not be able to stay upright is not good ROI potential...
Every time they sign a check in the NFL they are investing in someone who may not be able to stay upright. No guts, no glory.
I wasn't trying to draw you out, but had a feeling you may pop up on this... ;)
But not all prospects and their medical characteristics are creates equal. And therein lies the rub with Mr. Rosen...
At this point Rosen could rob Milton at gun point while one of his family members and Milton would still defend Rosen being his favorite draft prospect. Its as bad as Terps and Jackson. Is beyond old, but whatever.
If there was another QB prospect as good as Rosen, but without the same injury history, I would prefer him over Rosen. But it would have to be that close for Rosen's injuries to be enough to drop him below any of the others.
But then I think about it in this way - maybe the medical concern is the blessing in disguise for Jints Central. And they are in the perfect spot because Cleveland has enough doubt about Rosen - both with the medical and personality - that they have wiped him off their board. So Rosen will just be sitting there at #2, daring us to take him. Daring us to take this big risk with this big reward upside. If we do, and Rosen hits, then the Cleveland QB jinx continues - Wentz to Watson to Rosen...
What a situation for Gettleman and his first draft at Jints Central. A chance to impact the organization for a decade - good or bad...
LOL, whatever Keefe. I didn't say he wasn't a good pro. I said he has no heart.