McShay: Gap between top 2 QB's and rest for "a lot" of teams

on these quarterbacks are all over the map. Impossible to predict anything

one for Allen and one for Hackenberg. A nice one-two bench combo.

In comment 13854672 Sy'56 said:

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on these quarterbacks are all over the map. Impossible to predict anything

I'm shocked that Rosen isn't the consensus #1. I really can't see any glaring negatives about his game.

Rosen's 2 concussions and a throwing shoulder injury don't concern you??

least of them all.

...is represented by CAA. And not just because it rhymes.

To do this for a living and have Allen over Rosen.

On who the top guy is comes from agents and pr. If they can get there guy in the top q.b. converstion by positive pr and negative or against the rest of the group - there stands to be a lot of money made. Even if there guy isn’t picked first - everyone know know the guy they picked is one of the top guys - doesn’t mean it’s true. I think the agents have more to do with where the top kids are drafted then we give credit for.

In comment 13854681 Dave said:

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Rosen's 2 concussions and a throwing shoulder injury don't concern you??

Concussions, yes - shoulder no, you can't throw the ball like he does if the shoulder is bad. Even the concussions are a bit ludicrous since we don't know if any of the others had them, too.

In comment 13854672 Sy'56 said:

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on these quarterbacks are all over the map. Impossible to predict anything

what's your gut telling your right now about what Cleveland does at #1 and NYG at #2?

depends on perspective.

Rosen = Pocket Passer, Tall but a little light
Darnold = A little Tony Romo, a little Dan Marino, Perfect Size
Allen = Big Ben like, raw, Perfect Size
Mayfield = Russell Wilson Like, hopefully not Johnny like
Jackson = RGIII or Vick Like
Rudolph = Carson Palmer Like

never seen such a selection before.
That doesn't even include 2nd tier guys like Silver, Lauletta, White.

With all these constant changes and comparisons, to me, it seems like there just isn’t a great elite QB in this draft.

I do remember the year Manning was drafted there were arguments too but that felt more like arguing about 3 elite guys versus 4-5 flawed guys like now.

The battle for Danny Wuerffel begins

right now.

In comment 13854705 rasbutant said:

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depends on perspective. Rosen = Pocket Passer, Tall but a little light Darnold = A little Tony Romo, a little Dan Marino, Perfect Size Allen = Big Ben like, raw, Perfect Size Mayfield = Russell Wilson Like, hopefully not Johnny like Jackson = RGIII or Vick Like Rudolph = Carson Palmer Like never seen such a selection before. That doesn't even include 2nd tier guys like Silver, Lauletta, White.

You do know Rosen came in heavier than Darnold and only 11 lbs and one inch less than Allen?

In comment 13854681 Dave said:

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Rosen's 2 concussions and a throwing shoulder injury don't concern you??

Nearly every football player alive has had 2 concussions. No, it doesn't bother me. And the shoulder thing was nothing.

His film is worlds better than any of these guys.

even the most ardent fan boys need to realize that there are things to love and things to worry about with every one of these prospects. If you really think your guy is a can't miss, you are the one with the bias.

"a little light"...there's a bunch of absolutely ridiculous and fake narratives out there about Rosen that it has gotten to be pretty much a joke. He is 6'4, 225 and is not slight in frame at all.

In comment 13854717 Mike from Ohio said:

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even the most ardent fan boys need to realize that there are things to love and things to worry about with every one of these prospects. If you really think your guy is a can't miss, you are the one with the bias.

Did I say Rosen was can't miss?

Darnold and Allen are the "cleaner" of the 4.

of misinformation out there. Lots of smoke because there are so many options. Other than the Reese run Giants, there isn't a team that wants their intentions known.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the Giants board and we won't know what that looks like until the end of April.

In comment 13854705 rasbutant said:

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depends on perspective. Rosen = Pocket Passer, Tall but a little light Darnold = A little Tony Romo, a little Dan Marino, Perfect Size Allen = Big Ben like, raw, Perfect Size Mayfield = Russell Wilson Like, hopefully not Johnny like Jackson = RGIII or Vick Like Rudolph = Carson Palmer Like never seen such a selection before. That doesn't even include 2nd tier guys like Silver, Lauletta, White.

How is Darnold the "Perfect Size" when he is half inch shorter than Rosen and 5 lbs lighter yet Rosen is "a little light"?

"a little Dan Marino"...Marino had near perfect mechanics and an absolute rocket for an arm. Darnold's arm strength is probably the worst of the 4.

In comment 13854722 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 13854717 Mike from Ohio said: Quote: even the most ardent fan boys need to realize that there are things to love and things to worry about with every one of these prospects. If you really think your guy is a can't miss, you are the one with the bias. Did I say Rosen was can't miss?

Can't miss may have been the wrong phrase. What I intended to say was that it is pretty clear none of these prospects have separated themselves from the pack.

In comment 13854712 section125 said:

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In comment 13854705 rasbutant said: Quote: depends on perspective. Rosen = Pocket Passer, Tall but a little light Darnold = A little Tony Romo, a little Dan Marino, Perfect Size Allen = Big Ben like, raw, Perfect Size Mayfield = Russell Wilson Like, hopefully not Johnny like Jackson = RGIII or Vick Like Rudolph = Carson Palmer Like never seen such a selection before. That doesn't even include 2nd tier guys like Silver, Lauletta, White. You do know Rosen came in heavier than Darnold and only 11 lbs and one inch less than Allen?

Nope i didn't know that. Wasn't trying to knock him, i think he's the best prospect in the draft.

But based on what I do know I would prefer Rosen or Mayfield to Darnold/Allen.

In comment 13854713 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 13854681 Dave said: Quote: Rosen's 2 concussions and a throwing shoulder injury don't concern you?? Nearly every football player alive has had 2 concussions. No, it doesn't bother me. And the shoulder thing was nothing. His film is worlds better than any of these guys.

Maybe 10 years ago that would matter, but now, you have to worry about protocol and not being able to hide it. We are talking about fines, lawsuits, etc not to mention the missed games.

For that not to concern a team would be the definition of negligence.

Hit me Josh,I'm open

But am starting to really warm to idea that we will wind up with either him or Darnold. No bad option there.

is part of the problem. It is one thing deciding on drafting a QB because there are only a couple worth a 1st round pick, but to have so many guys that are very different from each other is adding to the confusion IMO. Add to the fact that there are a good number of free agent QB's as well and the decision making process is that much more difficult.

At least the Giants have Manning and Webb. They have QB's. Some teams like NY Jets and Arizona have basically nothing. Even the Browns have Kizer, which isn't saying much.

People are sleeping on this guy due to completion % and competition.

His physical abilities are through the roof and seems totally clean otherwise. He is going to surprise.

In comment 13854693 GiantsAlwaysAndForever said:

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To do this for a living and have Allen over Rosen.

Great line.

Allen is super strong but is SO inaccurate.

I'm a Rosen guy all the way if his medicals check out. And cleaning/shaving the labrum is no big deal typically, but they have MRIs to check that.

In comment 13854770 Chris684 said:

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People are sleeping on this guy due to completion % and competition. His physical abilities are through the roof and seems totally clean otherwise. He is going to surprise.

Not if he cannot complete passes. I think if he was a 60% or greater completion percentage guy, yes he'd be #1. But I think him being against lower level competition and still being at only 57% is a problem.

I dont understand is why it seams like there is a genuine smear campaign against Rosen in the national media. Bad teammate, slight of frame, pocket passer who lacks athleticism, and injury concerns. Every former teammate of his raves about him, he's bigger there Darnold and matched him in athletic tests, he threw at the combine and showed no ill effect of shoulder injury. That knocks off the majority of the supposed flaws that would stop him from being a top pick, just leaving the concussion concern. So by all means, if you want to knock him down by the concussion concerns go ahead, but so many people keep regurgitating these negatives as facts. I'm not saying the concussions are anything to scoff at, but it seems like there is a concerted effort by the media to throw crap against the wall for creating negatives around him.

In comment 13854770 Chris684 said:

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People are sleeping on this guy due to completion % and competition. His physical abilities are through the roof and seems totally clean otherwise. He is going to surprise.

Oh ffs, no one is "sleeping" on Allen, he's clearly highly rated, just not on BBI. His completion % is a legitimate concern, not even 60% in a pretty poor conference isn't confidence inspiring.

every other QB out there. I know, concussions ad stuff but that couldn't possibly make that kind of difference especially over Allen who has major warts as a passer.

I would suspect the other QBs have had pass concussions, too. Athletes in many sports have suffered concussions from mostly teen years on.

The shoulder injury itself is a non-issue for me. Minor, soft tissue injury, that's it. He also had an albow thing back in HS which is a non issue, but the fact that he's had 2 soft tissue injuries tells me that he may just be susceptible which is a concern. Obviously the concussions are a concern too. It's something that I'm sure the Giants are looking at very closely.

In comment 13854770 Chris684 said:

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People are sleeping on this guy due to completion % and competition. His physical abilities are through the roof and seems totally clean otherwise. He is going to surprise.

I agree. Been saying this for months.

In comment 13854683 Miamijints said:

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least of them all.

I’m with you. He had a good offensive line to boot. I just don’t see it with him. He’s got the arm and throws a beautiful ball. That’s where it starts and ends. Allen reminds me of Big Ben. Same knocks coming out. Weakcompetiton anf accuracy problems. Hmmmm sure seemed to work well for Pitt. Give me allen or darnold. I want no part of man child mayfield and fragile josh(channeling my inner trump nicknames)

and that's Darnold or L.Jax

because of something that can't be measured. Heart. Say what you want about Ben Roethlisberger, but the dude is a gamer and has a ton of heart. You can't just compare 2 guys situations and expect them to turn out the same. That's not how things work.

In comment 13854819 Tuckrule said:

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In comment 13854683 Miamijints said: Quote: least of them all. He’s got the arm and throws a beautiful ball. That’s where it starts and ends.

Which, coincidentally, is where it starts and ends for NFL QBs.

In comment 13854768 Rjanyg said:

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is part of the problem. It is one thing deciding on drafting a QB because there are only a couple worth a 1st round pick, but to have so many guys that are very different from each other is adding to the confusion IMO. Add to the fact that there are a good number of free agent QB's as well and the decision making process is that much more difficult. At least the Giants have Manning and Webb. They have QB's. Some teams like NY Jets and Arizona have basically nothing. Even the Browns have Kizer, which isn't saying much.

So a 37 year old declining qb and an unknown 3rd round lottery ticket equate to something? Most teams have a Webb. The Giants are in need of a qb like many other teams in the league now. The days of not caring about the qb position are quickly coming to a close for our team.

we view it this way.

In comment 13854675 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 13854672 Sy'56 said: Quote: on these quarterbacks are all over the map. Impossible to predict anything I'm shocked that Rosen isn't the consensus #1. I really can't see any glaring negatives about his game.

Don't believe the hype...

that there is real concern, as there should be, about Rosen's medical history. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense to me to say there is this noteworthy gap from Allen/Darnold to the others. Rosen's throwing skills are just too pronounced...

In comment 13854887 bw in dc said:

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that there is real concern, as there should be, about Rosen's medical history. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense to me to say there is this noteworthy gap from Allen/Darnold to the others. Rosen's throwing skills are just too pronounced...

Again though, lets say the Giants did have Rosen clearly above the rest, or any team for that matter, why would they make that known? The fact that there is so much ambiguity around the league on the QB rankings only helps teams hide their true rankings.

I think McShay is off on this.

Watching all of them play, Rosen is the only one I've seen who can consistently fit the ball into any window the NFL-level accuracy.

In comment 13854893 Keith said:

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Again though, lets say the Giants did have Rosen clearly above the rest, or any team for that matter, why would they make that known? The fact that there is so much ambiguity around the league on the QB rankings only helps teams hide their true rankings.

Carve out Jints Central for a moment. I think McShay is fairly dialed in. So I would imagine he's connected with a significant sample to make his statement. Unless there is collusion going on between GMS - which would be quite unusual ;) - I have to think this is the opinion du jour for this QB class...

especially if they don't want any either of them at #2.

If #1 goes to Barkley, they can trade (including with Cleveland) with all those teams coveting one of the two or if Giants are sold on Rosen, they take him.

This season there are 4 top QB's, top of the first round QB's, that is a lot for a season. If we just think back a couple of years when Wentz and Goff were at the top, there were not any others in their class and they were not viewed as can't miss prospects and were not viewed any better then these top four guys are now.

To have 4 QB's as top of the first round talents is a lot of QB's and makes this QB class one of the best in recent years, and possibly the best since the Eli, River, and Big Ben draft class of 2004, I don't feel that is an over statement.

It could turn out to look a whole lot worse in 10 years, but it could possible be one of the all time greatest QB classes in NFL history too. So to even think this is not a good year to draft a QB, is pretty crazy. The Giants may not draft a QB, and may not live to regret that decision either, but I think this QB class will turn out to be a very good one and some teams are going to be very happy.

Not River, sorry.

In comment 13854687 Milton said:

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...is represented by CAA. And not just because it rhymes.

He is.
See here - ( New Window )

There’s basically a different opinion on everyone in this draft except maybe Barkley. And even with all the scouts and various NFL pros and media and even players saying that Barks is cant miss he could still flame out. You do your homework and then you throw the dice I just hope the football gods are smiling on Big Blue on draft day.

In comment 13854787 Steve in Greenwich said:

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I dont understand is why it seams like there is a genuine smear campaign against Rosen in the national media. Bad teammate, slight of frame, pocket passer who lacks athleticism, and injury concerns. Every former teammate of his raves about him, he's bigger there Darnold and matched him in athletic tests, he threw at the combine and showed no ill effect of shoulder injury. That knocks off the majority of the supposed flaws that would stop him from being a top pick, just leaving the concussion concern. So by all means, if you want to knock him down by the concussion concerns go ahead, but so many people keep regurgitating these negatives as facts. I'm not saying the concussions are anything to scoff at, but it seems like there is a concerted effort by the media to throw crap against the wall for creating negatives around him.

I think it's the "rich kid" narrative that is driving what you've identified in your post.

I've heard a number of radio talk show hosts say, essentially, that rich kids don't want to play football badly enough because its not their way to a better life", or some other bullshit like that.

This narrative is being used to knock Rosen.

In comment 13854946 dpassen1 said:

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In comment 13854687 Milton said: Quote: ...is represented by CAA. He is.

Ding ding ding! And there you have it. Allen and Darnold are both represented by CAA. Rosen and Mayfield are not.

Mayfield has a ton of zip on a pretty good arm, but what sets him apart is his accuracy (significantly better than Allen) and his quick feet (significantly better than Rosen).

The height doesn't worry me- he's over 6'0. He is an inch and a half shorter than Rodgers, and Trubisky, who are both exactly 6'2. Is being the size of the tip of your pointer finger smaller really that much of a deterrent?

His play-style actually reminds me a bit of Aaron Rodgers, and his arm strength looks well above average to me. I saw him chuck one 65 yards in the air and hit the WR in stride for a TD vs Texas.

His play-style doesn't worry me either- the NFL is trending towards QB's who can move around and make plays outside of the structure of the play. He had no problem playing behind and seeing over an NFL sized OL at Oklahoma.

If we are going QB, I'd like him or Darnold.

In comment 13854967 Hammer said:

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I've heard a number of radio talk show hosts say, essentially, that rich kids don't want to play football badly enough because its not their way to a better life", or some other bullshit like that. This narrative is being used to knock Rosen.

Cris Carter, I mentioned yesterday, was pushing this narrative. Did say, however, offspring from a father who played in the NFL - like Mannings, Matthews, Slater, etc - had a better chance to do well because they were exposed to the culture and knew the work required...

(To be fair, he mentioned his own son, who is currently in the CFL, for likely not making it to the NFL because of his cozy, plush upbringing.)

In comment 13854984 Breeze_94 said:

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Mayfield has a ton of zip on a pretty good arm, but what sets him apart is his accuracy (significantly better than Allen) and his quick feet (significantly better than Rosen). The height doesn't worry me- he's over 6'0. He is an inch and a half shorter than Rodgers, and Trubisky, who are both exactly 6'2. Is being the size of the tip of your pointer finger smaller really that much of a deterrent? His play-style actually reminds me a bit of Aaron Rodgers, and his arm strength looks well above average to me. I saw him chuck one 65 yards in the air and hit the WR in stride for a TD vs Texas. His play-style doesn't worry me either- the NFL is trending towards QB's who can move around and make plays outside of the structure of the play. He had no problem playing behind and seeing over an NFL sized OL at Oklahoma. If we are going QB, I'd like him or Darnold.

When I watch clips, he reminds me of Russell Wilson.

Actually, I think of Rosen more as “A little Tony Romo” as in the Tony Romo that gets hurt a lot and misses a lot of games.

It boggles my mind that the pro Rosen crowd so easily dismisses Rosen’s multiple game missing concussions in 2017. When his family’s wealth and his father’s occupation as neuro/spine surgeon are factored in Rosen having a long NFL career (a shorter career is one of the arguments against Barkley) seems very unlikely.

Rosen is probably the only “throw the remote” pick the Giants could make at 2nd overall (or even after a trade down).

In comment 13854789 Joey in VA said:

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In comment 13854770 Chris684 said: Quote: People are sleeping on this guy due to completion % and competition. His physical abilities are through the roof and seems totally clean otherwise. He is going to surprise. Oh ffs, no one is "sleeping" on Allen, he's clearly highly rated, just not on BBI. His completion % is a legitimate concern, not even 60% in a pretty poor conference isn't confidence inspiring.

Strange how the poor play of his receivers is ignored. His completion % (adjusted for drops) is > 70%.

is the best passer from what I've seen.

I also find it odd that people keep harping on his size when his measurables don't seem to reflect that at all.

The thing I like better about Darnold is the mobility

In comment 13855008 Trainmaster said:

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Actually, I think of Rosen more as “A little Tony Romo” as in the Tony Romo that gets hurt a lot and misses a lot of games. It boggles my mind that the pro Rosen crowd so easily dismisses Rosen’s multiple game missing concussions in 2017. When his family’s wealth and his father’s occupation as neuro/spine surgeon are factored in Rosen having a long NFL career (a shorter career is one of the arguments against Barkley) seems very unlikely. Rosen is probably the only “throw the remote” pick the Giants could make at 2nd overall (or even after a trade down).

Hopefully when you throw the remote it bounces off the tv and hits you in the face.

I think he is too prone to throwing mistakes. He is the kind of QB who can beat another team or beat his own team.

In comment 13854845 Keith said:

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because of something that can't be measured. Heart. Say what you want about Ben Roethlisberger, but the dude is a gamer and has a ton of heart. You can't just compare 2 guys situations and expect them to turn out the same. That's not how things work.

Big Ben whiner has heart? No, it worked out for Pitt because of Top 5 defenses every year (in his early years).

has been a great pro QB. This is not really debatable. I know there are many on this board that are so in love with Eli that in pains them to give credit to better QBs.

Some guys let their biases and hatreds bleed into their opinions so you just have to dismiss them altogether. It's ridiculous. You can hate Big Ben as a person all you want, but you cannot deny how good of a pro he has been.

biggest strength can also be a weakness...guy wants to make something out of nothing on every single play. Which speaks to his competitiveness...but sometimes it's a really bad outcome. I think this is a pretty easy issue to fix. Just run and do crazy things less.

In comment 13854785 section125 said:

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In comment 13854770 Chris684 said: Quote: People are sleeping on this guy due to completion % and competition. His physical abilities are through the roof and seems totally clean otherwise. He is going to surprise. Not if he cannot complete passes. I think if he was a 60% or greater completion percentage guy, yes he'd be #1. But I think him being against lower level competition and still being at only 57% is a problem.

If you put Allen on UCLA he's a 65% passer at least. The 57% completion percentage stat doesn't have anything to do with his actual accuracy, which is very good.

McShay is CAA

Darnold & Allen are CAA

Rosen is Athletes First

Mayfield is with a smaller group in Colorado

How does the only QB who did not throw at the combine move up the Draft rankings when the others throwing all had what many are saying impressive combines?

How does refusing to throw end up being a plus?

In comment 13855548 montanagiant said:

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How does the only QB who did not throw at the combine move up the Draft rankings when the others throwing all had what many are saying impressive combines? How does refusing to throw end up being a plus?

Especially when he craps the bed in the athletic testing.

In comment 13854887 bw in dc said:

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that there is real concern, as there should be, about Rosen's medical history. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense to me to say there is this noteworthy gap from Allen/Darnold to the others. Rosen's throwing skills are just too pronounced...

I heard Mayock on WFAN today and he said there's not only concern about his past injury history but also concern about him holding up going forward vs pro talent.

Seems to be a feeling out there he gets hurt too easy and it's just a matter of time before he goes down in the NFL. Thinking is it would be sooner rather than later, and there are big concerns about him being able to withstand the hits he'd take in the pocket.

In comment 13855623 Eman11 said:

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In comment 13854887 bw in dc said: Quote: that there is real concern, as there should be, about Rosen's medical history. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense to me to say there is this noteworthy gap from Allen/Darnold to the others. Rosen's throwing skills are just too pronounced... I heard Mayock on WFAN today and he said there's not only concern about his past injury history but also concern about him holding up going forward vs pro talent. Seems to be a feeling out there he gets hurt too easy and it's just a matter of time before he goes down in the NFL. Thinking is it would be sooner rather than later, and there are big concerns about him being able to withstand the hits he'd take in the pocket.

I admit, despite being a fan of his, that feels legitimate. Last full season he played was his frosh year. Missed significant time last year with the shoulder and this year with the concussion. Investing in a prospect who may not be able to stay upright is not good ROI potential...

In comment 13855650 bw in dc said:

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Investing in a prospect who may not be able to stay upright is not good ROI potential...

Every time they sign a check in the NFL they are investing in someone who may not be able to stay upright. No guts, no glory.

In comment 13855658 Milton said:

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In comment 13855650 bw in dc said: Quote: Investing in a prospect who may not be able to stay upright is not good ROI potential... Every time they sign a check in the NFL they are investing in someone who may not be able to stay upright. No guts, no glory.

I wasn't trying to draw you out, but had a feeling you may pop up on this... ;)

But not all prospects and their medical characteristics are creates equal. And therein lies the rub with Mr. Rosen...

In comment 13855662 bw in dc said:

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But not all prospects and their medical characteristics are creates equal. And therein lies the rub with Mr. Rosen...

That's surely true, so it becomes about probabilities based on history and specifics. My estimation is that it isn't as fragile as some make him out to be. And he only just turned 21 last month, so we can expect him to get at least a little bigger and stronger after a year in the weight program. Phil Simms struggled with injuries early in his career but after adding a little more muscle and padding through weight training (and perhaps becoming a little wiser) managed to avoid injury for quite awhile. Same with Tiki Barber. I don't think Rosen's injury history places him in bubble boy territory just yet.

If there was another QB prospect as good as Rosen, but without the same injury history, I would prefer him over Rosen. But it would have to be that close for Rosen's injuries to be enough to drop him below any of the others.

I'm reminded of the legal question: what's worse, letting a guilty guy go free or convicting an innocent man? And the easy answer is: convicting the innocent man, because not only have you convicted an innocent man, but the guilty guy is still on the loose. So it is with comparing Rosen to the other top QBs. Rosen may be more likely to struggle with injuries than the others, but it's not as if the others are immune to injury. On the other hand, Rosen is the only one of the four who is already able to do everything the NFL will demand of him. There are no leaps of faith required with him.

Then there is only a 34%chance of fail instead of a 93.4% chance by drafting just one if you go by all these draft experts research and talking

That for years teams have floated or planted rumors about players in the draft? Nothing insane but little harmless "glitches" about a player in hopes of getting that player to slip to them in the draft? For years we hear little stories during draft build up about players that end up never being validated or verified. This guy likes to party or is nuts off the field or that guy hates the east coast: Some end up true, some don't. For years we hear this shit and never remember the ones that go nowhere. We only remember the ones that were true.

Is it possible that a team like the Giants or jets or broncos spun up a tale about rosen? "Not popular with teammates" - just seems weird to me. Who even cares.

In comment 13855754 djm said:

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That for years teams have floated or planted rumors about players in the draft? Nothing insane but little harmless "glitches" about a player in hopes of getting that player to slip to them in the draft? For years we hear little stories during draft build up about players that end up never being validated or verified. This guy likes to party or is nuts off the field or that guy hates the east coast: Some end up true, some don't. For years we hear this shit and never remember the ones that go nowhere. We only remember the ones that were true.

I wish I could remember his exact words, but in 1997 Miami Dolphins HC Jimmy Johnson said he wouldn't want to spend a 1st round pick on a guy like Yatil Green (Univ. of Miami) because of his history of injuries. So sure enough he drafts Green with his first round pick (#15 overall). And what happens?

Quote:

On the very first day of training camp, Green tore his quadriceps muscles, anterior cruciate ligament and cartilage in his right knee. Green came back the next year and again tore the same ACL in training camp. In his third and only season playing, 1999, he played in 9 games catching 18 passes for 234 yards and no touchdowns. After three years and a total of 10 surgeries on his right knee, he was cut by the Dolphins after the 1999 year was and signed by the New York Jets, but never played a down and was cut during the season. After missing the entire 2000 season, he signed with the Oakland Raiders in 2001 but was cut during preseason.

In comment 13855662 bw in dc said:

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In comment 13855658 Milton said: Quote: In comment 13855650 bw in dc said: Quote: Investing in a prospect who may not be able to stay upright is not good ROI potential... Every time they sign a check in the NFL they are investing in someone who may not be able to stay upright. No guts, no glory. I wasn't trying to draw you out, but had a feeling you may pop up on this... ;) But not all prospects and their medical characteristics are creates equal. And therein lies the rub with Mr. Rosen...

At this point Rosen could rob Milton at gun point while one of his family members and Milton would still defend Rosen being his favorite draft prospect. Its as bad as Terps and Jackson. Is beyond old, but whatever.

In comment 13855691 Milton said:

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That's surely true, so it becomes about probabilities based on history and specifics. My estimation is that it isn't as fragile as some make him out to be. And he only just turned 21 last month, so we can expect him to get at least a little bigger and stronger after a year in the weight program. Phil Simms struggled with injuries early in his career but after adding a little more muscle and padding through weight training (and perhaps becoming a little wiser) managed to avoid injury for quite awhile. Same with Tiki Barber. I don't think Rosen's injury history places him in bubble boy territory just yet. If there was another QB prospect as good as Rosen, but without the same injury history, I would prefer him over Rosen. But it would have to be that close for Rosen's injuries to be enough to drop him below any of the others.

Look, if he didn't have the medical issues, Rosen is unequivocally the #1 pick. I think he'd be considered better than Goff and a more athletic Peyton Manning. But without that clearance, it's a major issue...

But then I think about it in this way - maybe the medical concern is the blessing in disguise for Jints Central. And they are in the perfect spot because Cleveland has enough doubt about Rosen - both with the medical and personality - that they have wiped him off their board. So Rosen will just be sitting there at #2, daring us to take him. Daring us to take this big risk with this big reward upside. If we do, and Rosen hits, then the Cleveland QB jinx continues - Wentz to Watson to Rosen...

What a situation for Gettleman and his first draft at Jints Central. A chance to impact the organization for a decade - good or bad...

In comment 13855215 Keith said:

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Some guys let their biases and hatreds bleed into their opinions so you just have to dismiss them altogether. It's ridiculous. You can hate Big Ben as a person all you want, but you cannot deny how good of a pro he has been.

LOL, whatever Keefe. I didn't say he wasn't a good pro. I said he has no heart.