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BBI Draft Chat with Great Blue North Draft Report

Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/8/2018 12:49 pm
Colin Lindsay and Pigskin Paul Guillemette of the GBNDR would like BBIers to start posting their questions now.

For those unfamiliar with the Great Blue North Draft Report, check out the link to their site below. Both Colin and Paul grew up Giants fans so they bring that to the table as well.


Great Blue North Draft Report - ( New Window )
Q: Will the Giants  
mrvax : 3/8/2018 12:50 pm : link
take a QB with the 2nd pick of the draft? If so, which one?
Who will the Giants take at #2?  
Big Rick in FL : 3/8/2018 12:51 pm : link
Thanks for doing this!!
Who  
AcidTest : 3/8/2018 12:52 pm : link
are some sleeper prospects the Giants should consider in rounds four and five?

Thanks for doing this!
Would you expand the "can't miss" players in the draft  
yatqb : 3/8/2018 12:53 pm : link
beyond Barkley and Nelson, and if so, who would you include in that list?

Thanks for doing this Colin!
What is your read on possible defensive alignment changes  
UberAlias : 3/8/2018 12:54 pm : link
And do you see any targets who might fit what they are looking to do?

Thanks!
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/8/2018 12:54 pm : link
What's your take on the value of Bradley Chubb? Overrated or a legitimate top-5 type of player?
Thanks Colin  
floridagiantsfan : 3/8/2018 12:58 pm : link
What OL and especially OT prospects do you think will be available in the 2nd or 3rd round for the Giants. Assuming they take either Barkley or a QB in round 1.
Thanks Colin  
Kevin in CT : 3/8/2018 1:00 pm : link
Thoughts on Jaleel Scott the WR from New Mexico State?
Why were people so wrong about Chance Warmack and Trent Richardson?  
Milton : 3/8/2018 1:02 pm : link
Is there reason to believe that Nelson's and Barkley's glowing reviews are any more reliable than the reviews Warmack and Richardson were receiving prior to the draft?
I see a lot of posts on BBI about what DG or Shurmur are looking for  
UberAlias : 3/8/2018 1:02 pm : link
But there is one very important POV I almost never see mentioned around here. Mara seems to be the forgotten man in the equation here, and I'm not at all convinced he's hands off on a franchise altering decision such as the #2 pick. He did give the word to start looking at the young QBs last year, let's not forget, and also signed off on sitting Eli.

What is your read on Mara's potential influence on what the team does @2?
Hi Colin!  
Jay in Toronto : 3/8/2018 1:03 pm : link
There are usually 'strengths' in the draft. I am under the impression that this year it's RBs, CBs and QBs. Anything else.

How else would you characterize this draft in terms of depth, quality etc?

TIA
IS there too much hype with Quenton Nelson  
Andy in Boston : 3/8/2018 1:04 pm : link
Or is he the real deal?
Who's most likely going to be this year's Andrew Norwell?  
DlineDominance : 3/8/2018 1:04 pm : link
Late round or undrafted OL that Gettlemen finds that can make an impact right away.
Colin  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/8/2018 1:06 pm : link
You’ve been very consistantly saying that the QB value in this draft is being undervalued by us fans, and that NFL FOs seethem differently than we do valuewise. Also that the Giants spot is more likely the spot for a QB, and that sound management says given the Giants personnel that’s what the # 2 pick calls for.

During the combine have you heard anything that either confirms this or shakes your stated position up in any way?
Is a mid to late round receiver to eventually go along side Odell  
UberAlias : 3/8/2018 1:09 pm : link
In the cards, and if so, who are some names we should keep an eye on?
Hey Colin  
jvm52106 : 3/8/2018 1:13 pm : link
it's been awhile. A lot of folks are against taking Nelson at #2. Forgetting the #2 spot at the moment and only focusing on Nelson, where would you rank him as a Guard coming out of college in any of the previous 5, 10 or longer years? Is he a potential 10 year all-pro in the NFL?
The draft  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 1:14 pm : link
Afternoon: Great to be back on one of my favorite stops on the pre-draft process. A couple of notes. I am going to be joined by my partner in crime Pigskin Paul Guillemette. We are going to try and braek it down with Paul taking the questions related to specific players and I will try and deal with the purely related Giants questions.

Also because we don't get paid for this - other than the pure enjoyment of chatting with you folks - we would appreciate it if folks are at the site (gbnreport.com) that they click an ad or two if there is something that interests them.

Otherwise, fire away!!
Colin, thank you for doing this  
Emil : 3/8/2018 1:14 pm : link
Two questions

1. Assuming the Giants stay at #2, other than a QB, which players meet the nexus of appropriate value and need for the Giants.

2. With the addition of Ogeltree, and lets assume the Giants add another Guard FA. Even though teams draft players, not positions, can you name the positions you feel the Giants should or would be inclined to address with what is only 5 picks at the moment.

Thank you. Big GBN fan!
It was reported that DG was brought changes to the grading scale  
UberAlias : 3/8/2018 1:14 pm : link
I sense it might be something that elevates the priority of on the field performance relative to H/W/S type athleticism, but that is just a guess. Do you have any insights into what those changes might be and how they could potentially impact who we draft?
Colin  
JoeyBigBlue : 3/8/2018 1:15 pm : link
Any 3rd or 4th round Dlineman flying under the radar? I think it’s imperative we rebuild the lines. We don’t have much depth behind the starters and it really hurt us last year as guys were gassed often. Who in your opinion can be a really good pass rusher from Day 1?
Being that we need Olinemen.......  
Simms11 : 3/8/2018 1:18 pm : link
Who do you think the Giants will draft? Do you think Nelson could be taken at #2 in the draft?
How much are Josh Allen's measurables over-valuing him?  
David B. : 3/8/2018 1:19 pm : link
I've read opinions that he's more likely to be like Jake Locker than Carson Wentz. He's almost the same size as Wentz, but Allen seems green as hell, and a ways away from being ready to play. Then there's his accuracy issues (which Wentz didn't have) which historically, few QBs ever fix. How many reads is he making at the college level? In the highlight footage I've seen, he takes off and runs a lot (for yards -- not to extend plays with his arm, like Darnold) which makes me nervous with any QB, but especially someone as tall and lanky as he is.

I understand the appeal of his measurables, but he doesn't look like the best, second, or even 3rd QB prospect to me. Yet people like Mayock are rating him that way. What are they -- and you -- seeing beyond the measurables.


Thoughts on  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/8/2018 1:24 pm : link
Tim Settle and Wyatt Teller as prospects?
To QB or not to QB  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 1:25 pm : link
It is going to be a really interesting run up to the draft and while we never like to say never, certainly my sense is that the Giants will take one of the QBs with the #2 pick. Its simply what teams with a 37-year old QB coming off back-to-back years in which he's been rated in the 20s in passing efficiency. In fact, to me its an exciting time because the Giants are in position if they get the right guy they could be putting themselves in a position where they could have another 10 year run where they are legit contenders.

Which guy is the right guy of course is the $64K question. Its a really interesting year for QBs. You have 4 guys who are really talented; indeed, each one in their own way has something of a 'wow' factor. The problem of course is that all 4 also have a major issue and until they actually get to the pros one isn't going to know how it all plays out. The odds are that 2 of the 4 end up being really good pros and two don't. And the sad fact is that no one - not Mel Kiper, not Mike Mayock, not Bill Belichek, not Ted Wolf - can tell with anymore accuracy than a monkey throwing darts at a dart board which ones will be stars or which ones will go bust.

In the end I suspect the decision may come down to Shurmur indication which guy he'd be the most comfortable working with, but its still a roll of the dice.

In fact, there are no sure things when it comes to the draft. Whether the Giants take one of the QBs or a Barkley or a Nelson or a Chub b they'll be rolling the dice.
Connor Williams question for Paul  
Rick in Dallas : 3/8/2018 1:27 pm : link
Is Connor Williams considered a LT or RT by scouts?
Is he a consideration for Giants in second round?
Colin. Thanks for doing this  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/8/2018 1:32 pm : link
What seperates the top QBs in this draft from your perspective and as Gettleman indicated how do they stack up against the second pick historically?
Colin: If Cleveland drafts Barkley, which teams desperate for a QB  
idinkido : 3/8/2018 1:32 pm : link
can offer the best trade packages for the Giants to consider?
how bout jamarco jones or kolton miller  
Dave : 3/8/2018 1:32 pm : link
not for plug and play day one, but 2nd, or 3rd rd? starter potential in your opinion?
Big D questions  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 1:34 pm : link
Good question Uber. I personally think the Giants can bounce back next year but the key is more the D playing like it did in 2016 than simply upgrading the OL. I say that because there is a lot of talent on D they just didn't play well in 2017. I am also excited about Bettch running the D as he loves pressure whereas the past two admins with the Giants played it much more conservatively. That said it will be interesting to see how Bettch plays it this year. The front 7 guys are all basically 4-3 guys who one could fit into a 3-4 but it would be an awkward fit at times altho truth be told I would love to see what would happen if Bettch used JPP the way he used Chandler Jones last year. One real possibility though is that if the Giants are indeed going to a 3-4 they take an edge rusher like Harold Landry with the 34th pick.

Re Eric's question about Chubb; I had my doubts about him until he ran in the mid 4-6 range at the combine. So yeah he's a legit top 5 guy but he's also a protoype 4-3 DE; indeed, if one was tempted to go that way with the #1 pick then maybe Tremaine Edmunds or Marcus Davenport would be better fits.
Kolton Miller  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 1:35 pm : link
Great athlete, which we saw at Combine, but may be a work in progress for a year or more. Reminds me a lot of Nate Solder of NE. JAMRCO not so much. May end up inside at OG lie Pugh did.
Connor Williams  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 1:37 pm : link
His athleticism indicates he can play LT, but his arm length and wingspan is less than ideal. Very good numbers at Combine. G-Men could try him on LT side of formation.
How would you take the RBs off the board,  
yatqb : 3/8/2018 1:39 pm : link
and do you think that Hines would be a nice 4th rounder as a 3rd down back and returner?
Chubb  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 1:40 pm : link
I lke Chubb, but I do not see him as elite. I would also say the GIants have a lot more needs than another DL at Pick 2. How about that RB?
OL etc  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 1:40 pm : link
FlaGiants: Don't think I am breaking any news saying that the interior OL is really deep this year and one would think the Giants will get a shot at one of Wynn, Hernandez, Price or Daniels at #2. And there could very well be several decent OT candidates in the 3rd such as O'Neill, Brandon Parker, Jamarco Jones and mabe even Tyrell Crosby. The other possibility is that if one of the OTs like McGlinchey, Connor Williams and/or Kolton Miller are there in the 20s they make a move up from 34.
Colin, appreciate the insight...  
Keith : 3/8/2018 1:42 pm : link
My question is regarding Rosen and his injury history. Without the injury red flag, I think he would be the clear cut top QB to draft, but obviously that isn't the case. Can you speak on the level of concern regarding his injury history? Is it something teams overlook or is it something that makes them rethink drafting him?
Why do guys bust  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 1:43 pm : link
Milton: As I said in the intro who knows why some guys make it and some don't. It is indeed a crapshoot. My theory is that the key variable is 'can players play the game at the speed the NFL game is played at' and one is only going to know that when they actually get on an NFL field. And its not just the running speed but the ability to process and react in milliseconds to a ton of info coming at you.
Connor Williams  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 1:44 pm : link
If he is there when Giants pick in Round 2 I would tae him in a heart beat. The new leadership has to decide if this is a patch job to get back to Play-Offs or a massive rebuild. If you are keeping ELI then it's patch time.
Ownership  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 1:46 pm : link
Uber again: One constant one sees on the BBI (and I go back to before it was even the BBI) is that folks want someone to blame. Thw fact is the Giants have really good ownership. The owners do not interfere in football personnel decisions. They might sign off if the Giants thought about trading up or down but I doubt that Mara will have any impact at all on the actual player they select.
Lamar Jackson seems to be one of the most  
Keith : 3/8/2018 1:47 pm : link
polarizing players in this draft. Some think he's destined to be a star, some think he's best suited as a WR. Curious to hear your thoughts on Jackson, curious to hear what you guys think of him and curious to know what you guys are hearing about him around the league.
Why do guys bust?  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 1:47 pm : link
Often FBI has a lot to do with guys not being able to make the transition to pro game. Talented players with athleticism but not too many smarts often can't get it especially on O. Desire and heart are also big factors.
JACKSON/QB  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 1:50 pm : link
HE'S NOWHERE near being an NFL level passer, and that's after 3 years of starting. I'm also a bit skeptical of his intelligence level as a QB. He's not Dak Prescott or Watson in that regard IMO. Plus the Petrino QB tree in the NFL is pretty naked. As Casserly always says, let someone else tae the chance, not me.
so of the 4 best QBs (all with issues)  
GiantNatty : 3/8/2018 1:51 pm : link
which do you like best? how do you rank them?
Depth ...  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 1:51 pm : link
Jay: I think you hit the nail on the head re the strengths of this year's draft. There's real strength and depth at RB, CB and the interior OL; I would also add in the 3-4 type edge rushers. All good news for the Giants. On the other hand its weak at OT, WR and 4-3 DEs. And while its not the way NFL types think, the fact is that you can get RBs who can do a lot of what a barkley would give you in rounds 2-3-4. Same with Nelson and the OGs. On the other hand, your not getting much at QB outside the top 10.
I'm surprised we went this long  
Keith : 3/8/2018 1:54 pm : link
without mentioning Barkley! He's the hot topic around these parts. People are saying that he's the best Rb prospect in over a decade. Someone recently said that he's the only guy with a perfect score. What do you guys think about Barkley? Where would you rank him amongst the recent RB draft picks?
WYATT & SETTLE  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 1:56 pm : link
SETTLE reminds me of HANINS, which is both praise and concern. He looked pretty sloppy at Combine. I am intrigued right now on Mr. Teller. I need to watch more game tape. He really looked solid at SR Bowl. THen he tested very well at Combine. He's an Interior OL starter potentially, with OT back-up potential. Still a 34th Rounder to me, but be might be moving up.
More to QB or not to QB  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 1:57 pm : link
Gidie: Took a while to get to this. Right now we don't really know what the Giants are thinking about the QBs and I am really intrigued to see w how they handle the various QB pro days coming up in the next two weeks, but what we do know is that there is a pretty good consensus around the NFL that Darnold, Rosen and Allen are legit top 5 types with Mayfield a little further back.

And right now Allen may be the key. I had a couple of NFL guys I know tell me even before the combine to paraphrase "don't sleep on Josh Allen" If a team is patient and has a good QB coach he has a huge ceiling.
Yeah, but  
David B. : 3/8/2018 1:58 pm : link
what's his floor?
BARKLEY  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 1:59 pm : link
Best RB in a while. Even better than EZEIEL IMO. People look at his rushing numbers from last season, but forget that the PSU OL was mediocre at best. Name me a Penn State OL. He's leaps and bonds better than my No.2 guy GUICE. If he's there at 2 the Giants need to grad him, then get the best OL in Round 2 still left. ELI will be grateful
Who  
AcidTest : 3/8/2018 2:01 pm : link
are some day three sleepers the Giants should consider?

Also, what do you think of Kurt Benkert?

Thanks to both of you for doing this?
Wow, so it appears as you two are as divided on  
Keith : 3/8/2018 2:02 pm : link
what the Giants should do as bbi is. Colin says QB, Paul says Barkley.
LAULETTA  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 2:03 pm : link
Nobody asked yet but if GIANTS get BARKLEY, then CONNOR WILLIAMS, I would suggest some consideration be given to KYLE LAULETTA in Round 3. WHat I saw in Mobile in Lauletta was a small school kid with big time talent and size. 2 years of tutoring behind ELI and he's ready to start.
Colin  
ryanmkeane : 3/8/2018 2:04 pm : link
what's the likelihood of Giants passing on Barkley if they believe Eli transitioning to Webb down the road is the best scenario?
Just would like a brief opinion on a few guys if possible  
est1986 : 3/8/2018 2:06 pm : link
OT -Desmond Harrison - University of West Georgia
DT - B.J. Hill - North Carolina State Univeristy
RB - Martez Carter - Grambling State University?

Thanks for doing this.
RE: LAULETTA  
jvm52106 : 3/8/2018 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13855232 PigskinPaul said:
Quote:
Nobody asked yet but if GIANTS get BARKLEY, then CONNOR WILLIAMS, I would suggest some consideration be given to KYLE LAULETTA in Round 3. WHat I saw in Mobile in Lauletta was a small school kid with big time talent and size. 2 years of tutoring behind ELI and he's ready to start.


Arm strength seems like a major concern here.
Any thoughts on whether Mason Rudolph  
David B. : 3/8/2018 2:07 pm : link
might be available at the top of the 2nd round?
Even more To WB or not to QB  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 2:07 pm : link
I hate to mention my own QB rating (I had Leaf over Peyton!!), but right now if I had a choice it would 1) Rosen; 2) Allen; 3) Darnold; 4) Baker. Put on tape of Rosen and the accuracy and anticipation just jump off the page; best pure arm I have seen in a while, plus he's a better athlete than he's given credit for. I don't get the sense that teams are all that concerned about his concussions (heck if they took everyone off their boards who'd ever had one they'd be pretty thin boards.) The bigger issue is how committed he is to the game; I sense that people are less concerned about it going forward, but it's an issue especially when the other guys are gym rats with great football intangibles.

As I mentioned earlier Allen could be the wild card here. The question for Shumur et al will be are his accuracy and anticipation issues coachable.
Sleepers  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 2:09 pm : link
Not so sure if we have sleepers anymore these days, but i get your point. IF they are serious about rebuilding that LB group, which I think they should be, I'd try to figure out how long they can wait and still draft OREN BURKS OF VANDY. Real Deal IMO. But he's starting to get attention lately. A also luv Tyler Conklin as aTE candidate. Avonte Maddox/CB/PITT has Nickel Back potential in my eyes. Real sleeper for me is DB DAVID CRUIKSHANK. He looked solid at both Combine and Shrine Venue.
The Browns  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 2:11 pm : link
Of course, what the Giants ultimately do with the #2 pick will be very dependent on what the Browns do at #1. There is a lot of media buzz that they could take Barkley at one and get their QB at #4, but from what I see that's mostly media/fan buzz (just as I suspect most of the buzz of Barkley to the Giants is). Football people believe that the Browns will be taking a QB at #1 and take their chances with #4. If they don't get Barkley there will still be some great players and witg all those picks they can get 2-3 backs in later rounds.
thanks, Colin  
GiantNatty : 3/8/2018 2:11 pm : link
for your work and your response. I have Rosen #1 as well. I think his passing abilities are as good as they come, especially at 20 years old. He' also very smart, which I think most coaches will like a lot. Like Milton, I'm hopeful he's the guy.
Mason Rudolph  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 2:11 pm : link
No doubt in my mind he's Round 2, but I just don't like his lac of mobility in today's NFL. When ELI and Brady are gone the pocket-bound area of QB may be just about over.
So back to my original question  
David B. : 3/8/2018 2:12 pm : link
Quote:
are his accuracy and anticipation issues coachable.


If you agree these exist, WHY is Allen ahead of Darnold on your board? (I totally get that Rosen is 1 and I agree)
Nelson  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 2:16 pm : link
Andy re Nelson: No doubt he's a really good prospect, but I wish he had run at the combine. My suspicion is he's more a 5.35 type guy and if so is probably stuck at OG. The other thing is he is primarily a superior drive blocker who is only an 'adequate' pass blocker. He's just not that athletic and I just don't see him as an option at #2. I also don't think that Nelson brings to the table in getting you closer to being a championship contender is much more than marginally different than that of the guys you are likely to see in the 2nd round.
Hill, Carter &Harrison  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 2:16 pm : link
HILLis the bets of these 3. He's a nice big body who can move. Will stop the run and pressure the pocket inside. 3rd Round. HARRISON is a great athlete, but really raw as OT. I'd draft him but not until Round 5, which will likely be too late. He can't help you for at best a couple seasons. I thin Carter is too slight and with only average speed & quickness. I might sign him as URFA.
RUDOLPH  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 2:19 pm : link
He's a smart kid, with a good arm, but again really limited mobility. He's coachable I think, but because he can't escape pocket he's likely to get sacked a lot or try to extend plays and throw too many INT. Sounds just like ELI on a bad day doesn't it.
BENKERT  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 2:24 pm : link
I am sorry to say I just don't thin BENKERT has the arm or athleticism to do much in the NFL. And that hurts me to say cause he's had a fairly tough life and has persevered. He really looked solid most of the 2017 season. He has limited back-up potential for NFL. When he's good he's O, but when he's overmatched he's a mistake machine.
Changes in the draft process  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 2:26 pm : link
Good question Uber about how the draft process will play out under the new regime. I think the measurables stuff with Reese is overstated. The Giants grades were always based primarily on the grades from the scouts who were grading primarily productivity. The changes I have heard about seem to be mostly related to a) the way the Giants set up their board and b) ultimately how they organize their scouts regionally and nationally. They may also weight things slightly differently but the whole draft process is something that has evolved for decades across the league and its hard to see how much there is to actually change.

Where we might see some change is that suspect DG will be more proactive in deciding on picks. Reese actually never made the picks; under him the Giants process was very collegial with decisons made by consensus in the room, whereas listening to DG I get the sense thathe may be prepared to make the ultimate decision personnaly.

And while everyone in the room will cheer, the fact is that if one actually compares the Panthers drafts 2013-2017 with the Giants drafts in the same period there isn't really much difference in outcomes. The draft issues the Giants had under Reese really occurred largely 2010-2012. But time will tell
Ownership  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 2:28 pm : link
At the risk of raising a lot if fan ire at a Giants website, so to speak, I'd like to comment on an earlier comment from someone on how the Giants ownership doesn't meddle much. I think that is not totally true anymore. I thin the team has somewhat become a Mara family nepotism organization. Nepotism brings with it potential incest, and that is never a good thing. Stealing really good talent from other organizations is not a taboo, incest is.
Who are your favorite WRs in this draft?  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/8/2018 2:32 pm : link
Seems like it's not a strong draft for them, and all the ones available have their limits.
Great insights guys—  
UberAlias : 3/8/2018 2:33 pm : link
Really glad you did this!
Draft projection  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 2:34 pm : link
Late me make the general observation that this upcoming Draft is very deep with NFL caliber players, but once we get past the top 12-15 the sure things get scarce. Expect a run for 5-6 QB in Round 1 which is one or two too many. I found Gettleman to be kind of a blah pick to run the organization, but it did not surprise me. We're back to the fact that John Mara doesn't think outside the box IMO. Mr. Tisch doesn't know a whole lot about football, and is content if his check shows up and he gets on the TV camera with some regularity so he can remind everyone that the Giants are owned by two families not one.
To QB or not to QB part X  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 2:36 pm : link
Keith: Truth be told Paul and I have never talked about the #2 pick, but I had a feeling he might think that way. And I believe one can certainly make the case that the Giants go that way. I don't believe they do because even if Barkley turns out to be the best back in the NFL since Jimmy Brown, you are still going to need to find a QB to be legit championship contender down the road. And the fact is that the QBs available at #2 are likely going to be far and away the best prospects at the position that the Giants are going to see any time soon. On the other hand, there are all kinds of ways to upgrade at RB that just aren't there at QB.

The other part of the equation is where Eli is at. Obviously, there were issues along the OL that will need to be addressed whoever the QB is going forward and there were real issues at WR with the injuries last year, but almost everything I heard from withing the Giants org the past couple of years was that Eli just wasn't playing very well.

One can hope that he bounces back - and I'll be the happiest guy in the room - but at 37 it just isn't something you can count on or plan for.
I love the tag team style of todays chat!  
Dave : 3/8/2018 2:37 pm : link
Colin, thanks for coming again, and for bringing your buddy, and Paul thanks for coming!
RE: Draft projection  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/8/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13855285 PigskinPaul said:
Quote:
Late me make the general observation that this upcoming Draft is very deep with NFL caliber players, but once we get past the top 12-15 the sure things get scarce. Expect a run for 5-6 QB in Round 1 which is one or two too many. I found Gettleman to be kind of a blah pick to run the organization, but it did not surprise me. We're back to the fact that John Mara doesn't think outside the box IMO. Mr. Tisch doesn't know a whole lot about football, and is content if his check shows up and he gets on the TV camera with some regularity so he can remind everyone that the Giants are owned by two families not one.


I’m hoping at least 6 QBs in the first round. It makes our 2nd round pick much more valuable
should NYG consider USC RB Jones?  
Dave : 3/8/2018 2:42 pm : link
can he help the passing game enough for Shurmer?
Darnold  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 2:44 pm : link
Somebody (Ry; Keith) asked why we have Darnold #3; the simple answer is almost I dunno! Fact is I go back and forth on all of these kinds. I guess I see Darnold as being a little too scattered in terms of his mechanics, decision-making and playing style and I worry more than the other guys that that kind of stuff isn't as coachable as their issues. I also just see Rosen and Allen - if they play to their physical potentials - as having higher ceilings.


In the end, though it doesn't matter what I think (and why I am always very hesitant to make such rankings) what matters is what the Giants think and that's all I really care about.
Great  
AcidTest : 3/8/2018 2:47 pm : link
stuff. Love it!
2nd round  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 2:49 pm : link
Dave et al: Frustrating thing about this draft for the Giants is that they only have one second round pick. Fact is there goin got be some very good interior OL at that point, some very good edge rushers and some very good RBs but you can only take one (although some will still be available at #65. And certainly I would think that a RB like USC's Jones who is very fast would be on their short list at #34. One other RB I would mention for the 3-4 round range is Kalen Ballage who is a really good receiver also with pretty good speed.
More on the 2nd rounder  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 2:53 pm : link
Really good point Gidie! Given that I suspect the Giants will take a QB at #2 to me their 'first-round' pick is really #34. And if 5-6 QBs do come off the board in the opening round, then whatever position they do ultimately target you really want to get a first round quality guy. And I think I've said it before but the guy I really like is UGA's Wynn who likely won't last to #34, but ....
QB Class  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 2:55 pm : link
Let me add that I think the Top 4 (Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Mayfield) all have starting NFL potential. I'll bet two of them become Franchise QB. But they are different and all will need some TLC and patience. I will tell you that I had he very strong impression leaving the SR Bowl that the long term favorite to excel was JOSH ALLEN. And in reality his size and big arm are the biggest reasons why. I would also tell you that the other he showed in Mobile was some humility and PMA. Ad I do not think it was fake. But if i were Cleveland I'd try to sign one of the VFA and take the best guy left after Round 1. And BTW Browns don't give up on KIZER just yet.
Pigskin  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 2:55 pm : link
Just reread Eric's intro and a small correction which might give some context to Paul's comments. I am a Giants fan going on 61 years. Paul is not. I let me tell you who he cheers for (if he actually cheers for anyone) but I know its not the Giants so he doesn't have those blinders.
Top 3  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 2:57 pm : link
So to summarize I see BARLEY, CONNOR WILLIAMS & LAULETTA for the G-Men, with a little luck, and I like OGLETREE coming to the Big Apple!

Thanks for letting me in. Now I gotta run and pick-up my grand kids from school. Duty calls.
|Cheers Pigskin
GMen  
PigskinPaul : 3/8/2018 3:00 pm : link
I did start my luv of football with watching the Giants every Sunday back when Connerly, Gifford, Huff and the boys were the best team in football history, per Chris Schenkel.
Thanks Guys  
mrvax : 3/8/2018 3:01 pm : link
.
Last thought  
Colin@gbn : 3/8/2018 3:03 pm : link
One last point I wanted to make today. And its been fun guys! Great questions. And it relates to the difference between fans and NFL personnel people. Fans tend to desperately want their team to get better and so want their picks to stick so they think about about 'safe' picks tend to concentrate a lot on the negatives. On the other hand NFL tend to be more driven by the desire to build a championship team. That means you have to be the 1 out of 32 so they tend to look more for upside. Just something to think about
Great stuff guys,  
Keith : 3/8/2018 3:03 pm : link
thank you.
Do you think the Giants would trade down  
Reale01 : 3/8/2018 3:04 pm : link
How far down could they go and still get an impact player in round 1? Seems like they could do a lot of good if they were able to accumulate 2nd round picks.

Thank you for your time and expertise
Thanks a lot to both Colin and Grandpa Pigskin  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/8/2018 3:11 pm : link
Very stimilating conversation guys. We appreciate your contributions to our delinquency
If the Giants go QB...  
Chris684 : 3/8/2018 3:11 pm : link
Josh Allen makes a ton of sense for them given their HC's area of expertise, his physical ability/mobility, and where they are as an organization (near but not quite at the end) with Eli.

My wish list for the start of their draft is in this order:

Take Nelson after a slight trade drown (4-5 range).
Take Barkley at 2.
Take Allen at 2.
Thanks Colin & Paul  
JonC : 3/8/2018 3:40 pm : link
!
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/8/2018 3:43 pm : link
Thanks guys!

Colin, I saw in Paul's bio that he grew up watching the Giants so I thought he was a Giants fan.
RE: If the Giants go QB...  
Rjanyg : 3/8/2018 3:45 pm : link
In comment 13855350 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Josh Allen makes a ton of sense for them given their HC's area of expertise, his physical ability/mobility, and where they are as an organization (near but not quite at the end) with Eli.

My wish list for the start of their draft is in this order:

Take Nelson after a slight trade drown (4-5 range).
Take Barkley at 2.
Take Allen at 2.


I think I feel the same way Chris.

I was originally thinking Darnold at the QB but at this point Allen seems to have the bigger upside. Rosen seems to be the guy that could start sooner.

I would prefer these scenarios in this order:

1. trade back with Cleveland to 4, pick up 2 - 2nd round picks and a 4th. Draft Nelson. Get a pass rushing LB, OT prospect and a RB in round 2 ( Landry, Crosby, Michel )

2. Take Barkley at 2

3. Take Allen at 2
All you guys with the  
allstarjim : 3/8/2018 4:32 pm : link
thought of trading down to 4-6 and drafting Nelson, why don't we just trade down to 11-15 and draft McGlinchey? Do you think that a good OG is going to make us any better than a good LT?

So I think the answer I will get will be related to HOW good Nelson is vs McGlinchey. But the latter is being a little overshadowed. He is very, very good and could solve LT for a long time for the OL. And the return would be much, much better.

I just think if you're going to trade down for an OL, get a LOT back...trade farther back. Because like Colin said, a great OG isn't going to get you that much closer to being a championship team.
Jim you answered your own question  
Chris684 : 3/8/2018 4:37 pm : link
Nelson is thought of as a HOF caliber prospect and the best, if not second best collegiate prospect for 2018 so grabbing him at 4 or 5 is massive value.

The trickiest part of that scenario is obviously Nelson being available at 4 or 5 as people seem to be overlooking the fact that the Colts have a currently injured top QB who has not had and needs an O-line just as bad if not more than our QB does.
RE: Jim you answered your own question  
allstarjim : 3/8/2018 5:20 pm : link
In comment 13855477 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Nelson is thought of as a HOF caliber prospect and the best, if not second best collegiate prospect for 2018 so grabbing him at 4 or 5 is massive value.

The trickiest part of that scenario is obviously Nelson being available at 4 or 5 as people seem to be overlooking the fact that the Colts have a currently injured top QB who has not had and needs an O-line just as bad if not more than our QB does.


Yes but HOF guards don't win you Super Bowls. Just ask Steve Hutchinson. And don't come back to me with "what about Alan Faneca, though?" My point is, I'm good with a trade down, but if we're doing it to target an OL, come down a little more, get the LT cornerstone, and get a GREAT haul in return, not just a good one.
RE: Jim you answered your own question  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/8/2018 5:23 pm : link
In comment 13855477 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Nelson is thought of as a HOF caliber prospect and the best, if not second best collegiate prospect for 2018 so grabbing him at 4 or 5 is massive value.

The trickiest part of that scenario is obviously Nelson being available at 4 or 5 as people seem to be overlooking the fact that the Colts have a currently injured top QB who has not had and needs an O-line just as bad if not more than our QB does.


If you believe Colin's post on Nelson above, then the question being asked makes a lot of sense.
Agree to disagree  
Chris684 : 3/8/2018 5:24 pm : link
Why do I want to target a trade where I get a lesser player? I want the best football players I can acquire period.

Nelson is top 2 in the country.
The idea that we may be  
jvm52106 : 3/8/2018 5:50 pm : link
in a quick rebuild and try and win with Eli 2 year window makes me think the QB of choice will be Josh Allen and not Darnold or Rosen.

Allen will be the one who benefits the most from sitting and if you know you are thinking 2 years down the line, you can still find reps for Webb to showcase him as a possible item next off season.

Big strong armed QB's who can move are hard to find. Rosen's concussions scare me. Darnold and his turnovers and less than 2 full years of work scares me.

I think Josh Allen ends up being the guy.
I can't fathom anyone believing for a second  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/8/2018 6:51 pm : link
that people believe "win now, two year window" is a thing. Did we not watch the playoffs? Are we not past the denial stage after witnessing the Eagles be an excellent team from start to finish and be built for long term success?

RE: I can't fathom anyone believing for a second  
Go Terps : 3/8/2018 7:41 pm : link
In comment 13855615 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
that people believe "win now, two year window" is a thing. Did we not watch the playoffs? Are we not past the denial stage after witnessing the Eagles be an excellent team from start to finish and be built for long term success?


Yup. Been a problem with this team for years.
RE: Jim you answered your own question  
bw in dc : 3/8/2018 8:02 pm : link
In comment 13855477 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Nelson is thought of as a HOF caliber prospect and the best, if not second best collegiate prospect for 2018 so grabbing him at 4 or 5 is massive value.



Out of curiosity, how is Nelson considered a HoF caliber prospect? He looks good on the video but it's a helluva leap - not saying you are making it here (yet) - to think blocking fellow D1 college talent, and mostly dominating it, means that will convey to the pro level. There is just as good of a chance that Nelson has actually peaked and he's only dominant at the college level...
RE: I can't fathom anyone believing for a second  
Jimmy Googs : 3/8/2018 8:20 pm : link
In comment 13855615 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
that people believe "win now, two year window" is a thing. Did we not watch the playoffs? Are we not past the denial stage after witnessing the Eagles be an excellent team from start to finish and be built for long term success?


Easy on the "built for long term success" stuff...the ball bounces funny for teams year-to-year (except the Patriots). Injuries, game-changing plays, complacency, etc are all factors that dramatically sway team fortunes.
This was  
mattyblue : 3/8/2018 9:59 pm : link
an absolutely excellent read. Thank you very much to Colin, Paul, Eric and anyone else involved in making this happen. It’s great every year and I always look forward to it
RE: RE: I can't fathom anyone believing for a second  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/8/2018 10:12 pm : link
In comment 13855697 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13855615 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


that people believe "win now, two year window" is a thing. Did we not watch the playoffs? Are we not past the denial stage after witnessing the Eagles be an excellent team from start to finish and be built for long term success?




Easy on the "built for long term success" stuff...the ball bounces funny for teams year-to-year (except the Patriots). Injuries, game-changing plays, complacency, etc are all factors that dramatically sway team fortunes.


But the pieces are there. Obviously health is always a concern for anyone, but they have everything they need to continue being excellent for that same two year window people are imagining for us.

We don't even beat the eagles when they suck.
We don't beat the Eagles because of a lot of reasons  
Jimmy Googs : 3/8/2018 10:20 pm : link
Point still the same that teams go up and down, sometimes to extremes, in the NFL each year.
Thank you all! Great insights.....wonderful read!  
George from PA : 3/8/2018 10:28 pm : link
So QB 123......makes sense. I wish I knew where Webb compares to these guys?

Barkley will be tempting.....in away, I wish Cleveland must have the 1st 2 picks....so we get our QB at 4. And some extra 2nd rounders
What in the hell is a 40 yard dash going to tell anyone about  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/9/2018 12:14 am : link
an offensive lineman?
RE: What in the hell is a 40 yard dash going to tell anyone about  
Diver_Down : 3/9/2018 5:58 am : link
In comment 13855801 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
an offensive lineman?


The 40 for OL is far more telling than just speed between point A and B. The initial 10 yard split is an indicator of their ability to pull or to get out on a screen. Running a screen is difficult if you don't have anyone blocking. Also, the overall physique of a player is on display. All the scouts understand that these are big men so they are looking for a male model. But they expect to see a player who is solid. If they see the ass and thighs all jiggly with sugar tits swaying to and fro, they might question the player's commitment to the gym. Overall, it is one more piece of information to help them arrive at their decision.
RE: BENKERT  
bw in dc : 3/9/2018 8:11 am : link
In comment 13855270 PigskinPaul said:
Quote:
I am sorry to say I just don't thin BENKERT has the arm or athleticism to do much in the NFL. And that hurts me to say cause he's had a fairly tough life and has persevered. He really looked solid most of the 2017 season. He has limited back-up potential for NFL. When he's good he's O, but when he's overmatched he's a mistake machine.


You can question Benkert’s decision making because it just drives you nuts. The guy is the king of the bird-dog...

But I’m not buying this lack of arm comment. Based on what? He can really drive the ball with velocity. It’s the skill that has kept him on draft boards.
RE: RE: BENKERT  
allstarjim : 3/10/2018 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13855863 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13855270 PigskinPaul said:


Quote:


I am sorry to say I just don't thin BENKERT has the arm or athleticism to do much in the NFL. And that hurts me to say cause he's had a fairly tough life and has persevered. He really looked solid most of the 2017 season. He has limited back-up potential for NFL. When he's good he's O, but when he's overmatched he's a mistake machine.



You can question Benkert’s decision making because it just drives you nuts. The guy is the king of the bird-dog...

But I’m not buying this lack of arm comment. Based on what? He can really drive the ball with velocity. It’s the skill that has kept him on draft boards.


I've said he doesn't have an NFL arm for awhile now. Seems like a below-average NFL arm from everything I've seen of him.
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