This roster is so thin that getting rid of him and going for the full rebuild would be my preference. I love Eli, but if he waived his no trade clause I'd trade him, because this team is quite a ways from a SB contender, and I'd prefer to suffer for a few more years with the hope that we could draft high again next year and rebuild the whole roster.
We'd recoup about $10M this year against the cap (but have $12M in dead cap costs) and would have $17M more cap space next offseason.
Eli is obviously not part of our future, so IMO it would be time to cut bait if he'd be willing to waive the no trade and we found a team interested in him.
(I know this has been beaten to death, but I was looking over the roster again, and I can't identify any other players who might be possible trade bait given their cap hits and/or talent level. We really are thin!)
Imagine the optimism around here going into the 2019 season with a new franchise QB and all that cap room not to mention another potential early 1st round pick in the 10-15 range.
The new GM and new HC are arguing otherwise.
Well said.
6-10 is close to Gettlman's nowhere scenario of 7-9 to 9-7, where you tread water and never become a top team. Get worse in order to get better. And let Webb and a drafted QB fight it out to be our new leader.
It's always nice to hear from my fans.
Sometimes I think the world's going to hell in a hand basket, and then I get responses like this. It warms my heart.
lol. You somehow managed to make that seem like it's no big deal. They've been chasing those things for 5 years.
...I'm with you 100% on this.
I much prefer this team enter 2018 sans Eli.
Would love to trade him and make him happy with another team.
Start fresh, start with a new QB and move on from there.
Imagine the optimism around here going into the 2019 season with a new franchise QB and all that cap room not to mention another potential early 1st round pick in the 10-15 range.
From your mouth to God's ears.
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2 offensive lineman a running back and a couple of linebackers and solid QBs play and this team is back in the playoffs cut the shit !
lol. You somehow managed to make that seem like it's no big deal. They've been chasing those things for 5 years.
Yup. And more depth at CB, a starting FS, another WR to play opposite OBJ, and perhaps some defensive ends who fit the 3-4 scheme better. Other than that we're set.
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It's always nice to hear from my fans.
Sometimes I think the world's going to hell in a hand basket, and then I get responses like this. It warms my heart.
the eli cultists have thin skin.
The restructuring of the Giants will not truly take on momentum until we have a changing of the guard at starting QB...
they took the cue from mike francesa and then the ny sports media pilled on.
As a life-long supporter of the minority opinion, i hear you loud and clear...
And what about his most recent performance makes you think Eli has 2 solid years left?
The resident BBI pro Eli lynch mob will harp on one decent game effort in a years to attest his "elite" status. It is always everybody else (Coughlin, Gilbride, Reese, Ross etc) fault.
The bottom line is that 37 year old Eli is not part of Giants' future. I have this sinking feeling that they are mortgaging the franchise's future to appease Eli.
Again, I appreciate Eli achievements but I love our team. Go Giants!!
What happens is that our rookie QB has 7 less games to develop into his new job, and we lose another season in fixing this team...
The resident BBI pro Eli lynch mob will harp on one decent game effort in a years to attest his "elite" status. It is always everybody else (Coughlin, Gilbride, Reese, Ross etc) fault.
The bottom line is that 37 year old Eli is not part of Giants' future. I have this sinking feeling that they are mortgaging the franchise's future to appease Eli.
Again, I appreciate Eli achievements but I love our team. Go Giants!!
Which “decent” game are you referring to? The Home Philly game? Ok, he played well, but does anyone remember the brutal INT he threw which totally turned the tide in that game in Philly’s favor?
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You encapsulated my thoughts so succinctly. Eli has been done for years. I respect and applaud him for being a Giant great. He is done, though.
The resident BBI pro Eli lynch mob will harp on one decent game effort in a years to attest his "elite" status. It is always everybody else (Coughlin, Gilbride, Reese, Ross etc) fault.
The bottom line is that 37 year old Eli is not part of Giants' future. I have this sinking feeling that they are mortgaging the franchise's future to appease Eli.
Again, I appreciate Eli achievements but I love our team. Go Giants!!
Which “decent” game are you referring to? The Home Philly game? Ok, he played well, but does anyone remember the brutal INT he threw which totally turned the tide in that game in Philly’s favor?
how about the horror show in az the following week,eli was brutal.
The OL is a problem but let's face it - they have no starting RB, their LBs are non-descript (even with Ogletree), and the DBs are a mystery. Jenkins quit last year, Apple is a headcase, Thompson was not the ballhawk he was advertised, and Collins needs to focus back on football instead of being the locker room leaker
The game before he lit up Philly the defending Champs. After they lost all their WR they changed the game plan to not have Eli drop back so much so he wouldn't get killed and because he had nobody to throw to.
It's easy to point at a 36 year old QB and blame him for our 5 years of non playoff football. Simpletons can do that 7 days a week. He hasn't been perfect but trading him away and starting a rookie QB next year our record will be 4-12 if we are lucky.
Ten Ton Hammer : 7:43 pm : link : reply
to move on, it went out the window when the fans went thermonuclear because he was sat down for one game and they erected billboards shaming the franchise.
The fans would not have objected, to see Webb out there in the fourth quarter of the Rams, SF, Cardinal, or Cowboy games....being 1-6, and OBj done, Webb should have had 2nd string snaps in the two weeks of the bye......to trot out Geno Smith was a huge mistake.....this team's possible future did not include Geno Smith....It was handled wrong....Mac obviously lost it, if he thought he was going to get away with that....
As for Eli, I brought up this possibility months ago.....if this team is not ready to win in the playoffs, we are just delaying the inevitable......this organization has lived with the mindset that we are only one or two players away from another run.......and while it is too early to tell, it looks like that attitude has not changed......so what if we don't have one efficient starting OLMan......so what if we don't have a #2 WR.......so what if we don't have a RB that scares the opposition.......so what if we have two DE's who have not lived up to their contract....so what if we only have one legitimate linebacker on the roster at this moment.....No FS.....the CB position is in flux......and the drop off in talent to backups is, like an abyss....
Can this team win and make the playoffs? Maybe....with a weak schedule...if we don't have one single injury to a starter.....if the new regime doesn't have growing pains....if we can pull a miracle and create in 0ne year, what Seven years couldn't do, create an OL that can pass block, convert short yardage runs, and god, am I asking too much, can actually run a screen.....and we have have to get get the breaks.....man we were snake bit all last year....
I see growing pains and maybe 6-10, 7-9 season.....and what does that accomplish? Not much....we are just delaying the inevitable, if we keep Eli......I'd rather see him traded(with his permission)/released, to play on a team that can utilize whatever talents he has left, and gives him a chance at another ring.....with him off the roster this year, we save over 20M to rebuild with,over the next two years.....we do not need a 22M mentor.
This team is not going to do it, in one or two years.....it's time to make the hard decisions, and start the rebuild......if by some chance, Cleveland takes Barkley first, then we have the choice of the best QB, for the future of the NY Football Giants......and if we don't think any of them are worth the second pick, then entertain the thought of trading down, to get more players.....and if that means we have to suck another year, so be it.....it's time we draft and acquire players who can play......I want a team that we can build on, not one year wonder's against a weak schedule......
I don't know if Eli is a year too late or too early. To me, MacAdoo was so so awful everyone deserves a slight pass
But...regardless of what happens going forward, for absolutely right now, with no good look at Webb, with no knowledge of how they would evaluate the possible QB's and no FA successes or failures and no draft day trade offers or not to even begin to evaluate....of course the right decision and the right FO thing to say is that Eli has 2 years.
Its right and its reality right now.
But what if after 3 weeks of FA, all the 2-4 good or even marginal possible OL improvements, all the logical 2-4 RB improvements or the 1-2 WR besides Marshall alternatives go to the other 31 teams? And no other LB or FS upgrade comes our way?
Then is trading Eli for some of the many many parts we need such a bad idea? Its definitely a sad sad day when Eli hangs them up...but it is going to happen
Guys...we don't have any any any proven NFL average OL. Its a decent bet that Pugh and Richburg want to leave.
I like spring and new guys and hope and everyone reaching their potential and no one getting hurt or sliding backwards. Its a rite of spring. Its what it means to be a fan.
I just like actual playoff winning seasons a lot more
He is clearly in decline. If you don't see that after having watched the last two years than I don't know what to tell you. You all have this vision of Gettleman magically putting the Eagles offensive line in front of him. He is going to be even worse next year than he was last year.
I am fine with them keeping him this year, provided they take
A QB at 2 and let him take the reigns either mid season or in 2019. But if they truly believe they can still build a team around Eli for one more run, then we are in trouble.
I'll go with their opinion and not the arm chair GM's on here...
I'd like to think that treating the best QB in our history with some dignity - to admittedly repay the class he has shown over the years- is the right thing to do. If he can play at an above average level that is what we do- and honor his remaining contract.
Beyond that is open - but we will fulfill our obligations as he has done.
If he can't play at that level - fine - but he gets at least 1 yr more to prove that .
stop stating he isn't in decline. I don't believe that's accurate either...
The backlash by the media and the fans during Geno Gate shook him to the core. It was so bad he had to call his football muse - Ernie Accorsi - to help restore order.
So Ernie ordered Eli to untouchable status and brought in his old boy DG. And Mara nodded approvingly...
So just because the Giants are moving forward with Eli it is a foregone conclusion he is going to miraculously turn his play around and be great next year?
Also, stop calling us anti Eli. We are just pro Giants and think it is time to move on. I don't hate Eli and I never did. I used to defend him to no end. But he is not the same player he used to be, and if he is going to eat a huge chunk of the Giant's cap space then he needs to be much better than he has been the last two years.
Not in decline? He was worse in 2016 than he was in 2015. He was way worse in 2017 than he was in 2016. That is called a decline. I know you want to continue to make excuses for him but at what point should you demand a $22M QB elevates his teammates?
If he was a franchise QB who would be around for the next decade he'd be part of the long term solution for the team and untouchable. But he's not, and we need a ton. So getting his $ off the cap, getting more picks, AND losing as many games as possible, will only help us down the line.
Bill, I agree. As was said in Shawshank, "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best thing". And I want spring to come sooner than it likely will if we keep Eli.
A solid running game,
A pass-catching TE,
A set of playmakers at receivers,
A QB-friendly offensive system,
and a great defense, such as the one that never gave up more than 20 points in any of Eli’s 8 career playoff victories.
Did I miss something? These are really not too much to ask for, right? Many QBs in today’s NFL would need a lot more to be successful.
A solid running game,
A pass-catching TE,
A set of playmakers at receivers,
A QB-friendly offensive system,
and a great defense, such as the one that never gave up more than 20 points in any of Eli’s 8 career playoff victories.
Did I miss something? These are really not too much to ask for, right?
Many QBs in today’s NFL would need a lot more to be successful.
May as well throw in special teams. He’s going to need a great punter to bail him out of poor field position and a dependable FG kicker to get points when Eli can’t punch it in for six...
Then our “franchise QB” will have everything in place to just be one of the 22 starters trying to contribute to a winning team.
The rest of the league knew this, the rest of the league realized how out of depth they both were, how utterly clueless and desperate they became as the season wore on. There were decisions made by both that had nothing to do with making the Giants a better team and everything to do with saving their asses. This was the single worst example of CYA at any cost that the NFL has seen in years. And while Mara may escape the rightful indignation towards himself to a large degree the fact still remains that he is also culpable in this perfect storm of a disaster. The other 31 teams understand that they realized that the talent played below expectations because of the leadership at the top. The cancers that developed were a result of players mimicking the same CYA aspect the HC and GM were guilty of.
These two were failures in every single area that describes their job and the rest of the NFL knows this. This roster is much better then what their record showed. Sure there are areas that need a complete overhaul (O-Line) and others that have question marks where none existed before (DB's, WR's) but we now have fucking grown-ups in charge, knowledgeable deeply experienced Football people who also realize how bad things were last season but understand there is a workable core that needs some foundation work and might just shock the rest of the league with some right moves.
Let them do their work
I think many on BBI are discounting the "McAdoo/Reese Effect"
The backlash by the media and the fans during Geno Gate shook him to the core. It was so bad he had to call his football muse - Ernie Accorsi - to help restore order.
So Ernie ordered Eli to untouchable status and brought in his old boy DG. And Mara nodded approvingly...
You know reading your posts over time I have come to the conclusion you must be either 12 years old or living in a fantasy world...
I like this post, and a sensible response, rather than a "fuck you" response.
I'd prefer to move on as well, but, I'm trusting getts and rest of decision makers on going about next year and future.
Thing is, if they did trade eli and other moves, if the direction, they could really parlay this draft into abundance of picks not only for this draft but future drafts, which would really set them up good flow of talent down the line.
If anything, it should be an interesting time here for the giants.
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But Mara won't ever let this happen. He's all in on Eli now more than ever.
The backlash by the media and the fans during Geno Gate shook him to the core. It was so bad he had to call his football muse - Ernie Accorsi - to help restore order.
So Ernie ordered Eli to untouchable status and brought in his old boy DG. And Mara nodded approvingly...
You know reading your posts over time I have come to the conclusion you must be either 12 years old or living in a fantasy world...
Mock away my friend. Mock away.
But let me remind you of this six day span last year at Jints Central:
Eli stands in front of his locker crying after being unceremoniously benched, a defiant coach has a press conference telling the world everyone is on board with the benching and ending of Eli’s streak, Geno is inextricably announced as the starter, Mara is AWOL, the media and the fans go into a frenzy, Geno plays and there are endless shots of Eli on the sidelines, there are rumors of a fan revolt for the Dallas game, Mara fires McAdoo, Mara crawls out of his bunker and has hastily prepared press conference where he looks as uncomfortable as a human being can look, Accorsi is summoned to Jints Central to “consult”, Reese is fired, the world awaits the white smoke from Jints Central for the next GM, in the most predictable act ever, Mara hires Accorsi’s buddy Dave Gettleman...
Indeed, I’m living in fantasy land...
I was totally okay with sitting him last year. They weren't going anywhere and weren't sure what they had behind him. no running game, wr corps decimated with injuries - why leave him in there to take a chance on getting him injured in meaningless games?
And I think we have to wait and see what O-Line they add and equally if not more important - what can they do with the palyers they have now. bit of a puzzle - OLine is the problem but they played fairly well in both game against Eagles - arguably best DLine in the league.
Eli is clearly near end of his career. But, I'm of the mind that we get the remaining quality years out of him while setting up an orderly transition. And he only has two years left on contract anyway.
about 1/4 of the roster are guaranteed gone. And, there will be a few more. FA has not even started yet and there is the draft. That is not even counting the 10-15 rookies who will be contending for jobs - 4-6 of them prety much guaranteed.
All together that is about 1/3 of the roster. Some of you act like by not cutting Eli = they will be standing pat. again, that argument makes no sense to me.
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In comment 13857010 bw in dc said:
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But Mara won't ever let this happen. He's all in on Eli now more than ever.
The backlash by the media and the fans during Geno Gate shook him to the core. It was so bad he had to call his football muse - Ernie Accorsi - to help restore order.
So Ernie ordered Eli to untouchable status and brought in his old boy DG. And Mara nodded approvingly...
You know reading your posts over time I have come to the conclusion you must be either 12 years old or living in a fantasy world...
Mock away my friend. Mock away.
But let me remind you of this six day span last year at Jints Central:
Eli stands in front of his locker crying after being unceremoniously benched, a defiant coach has a press conference telling the world everyone is on board with the benching and ending of Eli’s streak, Geno is inextricably announced as the starter, Mara is AWOL, the media and the fans go into a frenzy, Geno plays and there are endless shots of Eli on the sidelines, there are rumors of a fan revolt for the Dallas game, Mara fires McAdoo, Mara crawls out of his bunker and has hastily prepared press conference where he looks as uncomfortable as a human being can look, Accorsi is summoned to Jints Central to “consult”, Reese is fired, the world awaits the white smoke from Jints Central for the next GM, in the most predictable act ever, Mara hires Accorsi’s buddy Dave Gettleman...
Indeed, I’m living in fantasy land...
You forgot he's innacurate and throws high and got OBJ and the rest of his receivers injured...
What a novel and rational comment. What are you doing here?
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In comment 13857010 bw in dc said:
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But Mara won't ever let this happen. He's all in on Eli now more than ever.
The backlash by the media and the fans during Geno Gate shook him to the core. It was so bad he had to call his football muse - Ernie Accorsi - to help restore order.
So Ernie ordered Eli to untouchable status and brought in his old boy DG. And Mara nodded approvingly...
You know reading your posts over time I have come to the conclusion you must be either 12 years old or living in a fantasy world...
Mock away my friend. Mock away.
But let me remind you of this six day span last year at Jints Central:
Eli stands in front of his locker crying after being unceremoniously benched, a defiant coach has a press conference telling the world everyone is on board with the benching and ending of Eli’s streak, Geno is inextricably announced as the starter, Mara is AWOL, the media and the fans go into a frenzy, Geno plays and there are endless shots of Eli on the sidelines, there are rumors of a fan revolt for the Dallas game, Mara fires McAdoo, Mara crawls out of his bunker and has hastily prepared press conference where he looks as uncomfortable as a human being can look, Accorsi is summoned to Jints Central to “consult”, Reese is fired, the world awaits the white smoke from Jints Central for the next GM, in the most predictable act ever, Mara hires Accorsi’s buddy Dave Gettleman...
Indeed, I’m living in fantasy land...
eli benched himself,mike francesa went nuts,the sports media followed up with the pile on and in the aftermath mara got cold feet and gave eli a 10% stake in the franchise.
Told ya. You refused to listen to logic and reason :)
However, I’m also fine with the idea to commit to Eli for the next 3 years and throw away the last 2 years as utter incompetence. Look at the Saints model. Get Eli a legit RB & build the line through FA. Webb is developmental and he gets a few more years under Eli.
I’m not half assing it. Make a decision either way & commit to it. It makes no sense paying Eli & a rookie 2nd pick QB.
However, I’m also fine with the idea to commit to Eli for the next 3 years and throw away the last 2 years as utter incompetence. Look at the Saints model. Get Eli a legit RB & build the line through FA. Webb is developmental and he gets a few more years under Eli.
I’m not half assing it. Make a decision either way & commit to it. It makes no sense paying Eli & a rookie 2nd pick QB.
you want to commit another 3yrs to eli in which he will be 40,he was mediocre at 35. that is not a good plan.
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There needs to be a plan. If the Giants take a QB at 2, there will be massive outcry to start him as soon as things go south. It will be last year all over again. If this is the intention, I’d move on from Eli now.
However, I’m also fine with the idea to commit to Eli for the next 3 years and throw away the last 2 years as utter incompetence. Look at the Saints model. Get Eli a legit RB & build the line through FA. Webb is developmental and he gets a few more years under Eli.
I’m not half assing it. Make a decision either way & commit to it. It makes no sense paying Eli & a rookie 2nd pick QB.
you want to commit another 3yrs to eli in which he will be 40,he was mediocre at 35. that is not a good plan.
Fine. Let’s move on now then. We have a new coach, the 2nd pick in the draft in what is considered a QB strong class. I have zero issue with this.
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In comment 13857354 Sean said:
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There needs to be a plan. If the Giants take a QB at 2, there will be massive outcry to start him as soon as things go south. It will be last year all over again. If this is the intention, I’d move on from Eli now.
However, I’m also fine with the idea to commit to Eli for the next 3 years and throw away the last 2 years as utter incompetence. Look at the Saints model. Get Eli a legit RB & build the line through FA. Webb is developmental and he gets a few more years under Eli.
I’m not half assing it. Make a decision either way & commit to it. It makes no sense paying Eli & a rookie 2nd pick QB.
you want to commit another 3yrs to eli in which he will be 40,he was mediocre at 35. that is not a good plan.
Fine. Let’s move on now then. We have a new coach, the 2nd pick in the draft in what is considered a QB strong class. I have zero issue with this.
i concur doctor.
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In comment 13857354 Sean said:
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There needs to be a plan. If the Giants take a QB at 2, there will be massive outcry to start him as soon as things go south. It will be last year all over again. If this is the intention, I’d move on from Eli now.
However, I’m also fine with the idea to commit to Eli for the next 3 years and throw away the last 2 years as utter incompetence. Look at the Saints model. Get Eli a legit RB & build the line through FA. Webb is developmental and he gets a few more years under Eli.
I’m not half assing it. Make a decision either way & commit to it. It makes no sense paying Eli & a rookie 2nd pick QB.
you want to commit another 3yrs to eli in which he will be 40,he was mediocre at 35. that is not a good plan.
Fine. Let’s move on now then. We have a new coach, the 2nd pick in the draft in what is considered a QB strong class. I have zero issue with this.
I think you’d do just as well, and probably better, in bringing Bridgewater on board.
1What are your goals for the New York Giants?
2) by when do you want them accomplished?
3) What is your proposed plan for the New York Giants?
4) What actions could accelarate item 1 and 2 above?
Not feelings about those questions...concrete logical actions
1What are your goals for the New York Giants?
2) by when do you want them accomplished?
3) What is your proposed plan for the New York Giants?
4) What actions could accelarate item 1 and 2 above?
Not feelings about those questions...concrete logical actions
Bill, my thoughts are....
Rebuild the core of the team. Regain control of both lines of scrimmage through rebuilding the offensive line and and establishing a strong running game.
I think this could be turned around quickly with some thrifty moves this offseason. Signing Norwell and potentially another veteran to put in between existing pieces on the line and add cohesion could improve the line greatly, and quickly.
Personally, I would draft Barkley, but if he wasn't available I'd also be happy with Nelson for the reason I stated above. Norwell and Nelson would be an incredible haul towards controlling the offensive LOS. Norwell and Barkley would be equally impressive.
As for Eli, I would draft a pro style/ready QB in a later round, 2nd or after. I personally believe that recent draft history shows these players have a lot more impact and are ready to play/contribute earlier than highly touted spread offense QB's. Let Davis Webb and this draft pick QB duel it out in training camp for number 2 on the depth chart.
Eli starts, and one of two things happens. The team gets turned around quickly and they have success, at which point Eli will start again the following season and an evaluation will be made on the situation in the last year of his contract, or the team struggles and the coach decides to make a change mid season from Eli to whomever has won the opportunity to step in between Davis Webb and future QB.
I do believe there is talent on this team, and I do believe that any team in the NFL can go from worst to first in a single offseason.
Superbowl
ASAP
Restock the following positions with average or above talent through FA and the draft in this order of priority:
OL
RB
WR2
LB
FS
CB
See answer to question 3.
The plan is simple, the execution less so. But that's why DG gets paid the big bucks.
The Giants already accomplished my original number 1 and 2 tasks which were fire Reese and fire McAdoo.
I do think they can pull it off and I think Eli deserves another shot. He threw behind that shit line for years without ever throwing them or Reese under the bus.
Let him swing for the fences this year with a legit line. If he strikes out, then I'll get behind scrapping him.
But to me a good runnning game requires 4 new lineman, one more blocking TE, someone other than marshal so the safeties have to play further back and 2 new rb...and a QB who is a threat enough that you have to defend back and the sidelines.
Seriously. And it may need 5 new lineman.
Meanwhile that has to be done while adding to the defense and a punter and kicker.
Again, how close to the goal we are is going to be much better handicapped in 5 weeks.
And although it is true that a team can go from bad to a good record exposed in the playoffs in one year is is also very true that a team can bump along bad to mediocre for a decade or two.
The fans of teams that showed a flash record of 9 and 7 admidst years of rationalizing hopa hopa are the largest segment of NFL fans.
To me, the goal is not a good year. To me the goal is escape velocity.
Sorry i watched the late 60s and all of the seventies
In fact, I truly believe the leave is cycling back around to this model, along with spread concepts because colleges are not producing pro style qb's anymore. It's all about the system.
Exactly.
Imagine the optimism around here going into the 2019 season with a new franchise QB and all that cap room not to mention another potential early 1st round pick in the 10-15 range.
Right on.
Did Eli?
So what does that "yes" mean to me? He's the starting QB until the moment a better option comes along. A 20 or 21 year old Andrew Luck/Carson Wentz might be a better option. Another NFL team offering a 1st or 2nd round pick might lead to a better option. He's certainly getting up there in age where they need to actively have their eyes open to both scenarios, but this desire to move on from him is strange. I might be wrong but I don't think the Steelers fans or Charger fans are as desperate to get rid of his contemporaries Rivers/Big Ben.
And with all of that said, as much as the starting QB is the most important position in all sports, even Aaron Rodgers would have a tough time leading this Giant roster to wins if they don't improve their play in the trenches. They need to get better running the football, stopping the run and rushing the passer no matter who the QB is. So to answer the questions above posted by Bill, that's where my focus would be. Improve the flaws of the entire roster and actively search for young QB's. Those 2 things can happen independently of wishing away the best qb in franchise history. I do not think it's out of the question that a good offseason and solid health luck can lead to another playoff appearance like 2016.
I don't think anyone is advocating overpaying a very short term move as many wanted with a 34 year old Andrew Whitworth last year or as they did with Brandon Marshall. The most "win now" move I've seen anyone endorse is signing Nate Solder, who is the same age Shaun O'hara was when he signed with the Giants.
I've always been an Eli defender and loyalist, but all good things come to an end, and sometimes it's better to do this a year early than a year late. Well, imo we're already beyond that point with Eli.
I don't doubt that with a rebuilt OL and LB corps we might play around .500 ball next year with Eli at the helm. But that doesn't get us near the promised land. Only by giving our kid QB(s) a chance to play and grow do we accomplish that. We'd have to tolerate losing a LOT of games for a year or two, but at the end of that time we might be quite a talented, young team.
Keeping Eli just suspends that type of growth. And I love Eli. But facts are facts.
Montana, I agree with your assessments of McAdoo and Reese, but the roster is awful right now. Let's hope for the best in FA and the draft.
Time to start that clock.
Jimmy Googs : 3/9/2018 7:50 pm : link : reply
because it means you took the unpopular albeit rational view that sometimes it gets worse before it gets better.
It is the thought that it is a rational decision. We don't gain any equity by getting rid of Eli, especially if the return isn't decent. We actually will have dead money when just a year from now we can trade or release him without a significant cap impact.
Whenever there's pushback on removing Eli, it is getting to the point that people who defend eli are the ones getting shouted down - and frankly, it is less of a defense of Eli and more that it just doesn't make sense to move him.
I truly believe there are posters who think Eli is the #1 problem on the team. And yet we're told that the take on trading him is rational? It isn't, no matter ho many times people try to post that it is.
Imo, the operative words are not Eli this or Eli that but rather: " being open"
Cutting him would result in a dead cap hit of 12.5 million.
We need a veteran QB on the roster next year. They're not just going to throw a rookie out there, or Davis Webb, week 1. Look around the league.... Look at the QB's making around 10 million per year (the difference between Manning's dead cap hit and actual cap hit).
Mike Glennon, Chicago, $14 million
Jay Cutler, Miami, $10 million
Tyrod Taylor, Buffalo, $9.7 million
Jameis Winston, Tampa Bay, $6.9 million
Marcus Mariota, Tennessee, $6.6 million
Blake Bortles, Jacksonville, $6.57 million
Josh McCown, N.Y. Jets, $6.5 million
So what's a better value to you to start next year?
Eli Manning at 22 million, or one of the above guys as 12.5 million (dead money) plus their salary?
Either way, you're going to have about 20 million in cap space allotted to the starting QB position.
Bang for buck, Eli is more valuable playing for us next year than anything we'd get in return for him, for multiple reasons.
We now have weekly trade eli threads that posture he needs to be off the roster for the team to move forward or that a newly drafted QB should come right in (or worse yet, have Webb take over while the new guy gets acclimated). And people call that a rational discussion.
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And enjoy the potty mouth comments coming your way
Jimmy Googs : 3/9/2018 7:50 pm : link : reply
because it means you took the unpopular albeit rational view that sometimes it gets worse before it gets better.
It is the thought that it is a rational decision. We don't gain any equity by getting rid of Eli, especially if the return isn't decent. We actually will have dead money when just a year from now we can trade or release him without a significant cap impact.
Whenever there's pushback on removing Eli, it is getting to the point that people who defend eli are the ones getting shouted down - and frankly, it is less of a defense of Eli and more that it just doesn't make sense to move him.
I truly believe there are posters who think Eli is the #1 problem on the team. And yet we're told that the take on trading him is rational? It isn't, no matter ho many times people try to post that it is.
look who just showed up,the little boy in the eli manning pajamas.
If you read my comment and picture me in Manning pajamas, then you match the mental picture I have of you being a fucking ignorant asswipe.
Good job.
If you think Eli has value for the Giants then you probably should think he has value for other teams so take the pick(s) to help balance the dead money. I don't think he does so I would go with the outright release based on how the Draft should proceed.
There may be dead money but there is also a lot of wasted salaries being paid on the team while we continue to struggle on Offense and delay the inevitable...
If you read my comment and picture me in Manning pajamas, then you match the mental picture I have of you being a fucking ignorant asswipe.
Good job.
that is funny,well played.
The stupid is strong around here. Least of my concern is a two time SB winning QB under 40 with almost a 0 injury history.
An outright release is probably the worst option that can be taken. But then again having the stance that eli has no value to the team isn't really a very good opinion either.
Creating dead money is never a good idea. It's not even an OK idea. All it does is literally create a $12M hole.
You act as if this should prevent coming to grips on how teams restructure...
Rosen seems to be the only QB that might have a shot to step in quickly. The others would most likely be better served to sit a year as the backup.
I'm not advocating Eli is going to be here 4-6 more years. I'm just saying there are few positives on moving him. Hardly any benefit to doing it this year UNLESS a team makes an incredible offer (and Eli agrees). Next year becomes much easier and cap friendly to move him, either via trade or release.
You keep talking about coming to grips. What is there to come to grips about? Here is how negligent it would be to create dead money. You could have Eli serve as the backup for this year if the staff feels he is a liability and we'd still be better off capwise.
This isn't about restructuring. You can restructure a number of ways. We seemingly disagree on this, but "restructuring" using Eli as the starter this year is likely both the most rational and the most prudent way to do so.
Nevertheless keep paying him and giving him roster bonuses while the Offense flounders is becoming the norm...
I go back and forth on that. The NFL is certainly morphing into an environment where it's more baptism by fire for these young QBs - get in right away and play. And there is more than enough good results to say that works...
Nothing beats real game experience.
On the other hand, some guys just need time to adapt and being exposed early is the worst decision. It's just figuring out what the best formula is for that QB.
Lately, I'm going with the vogue move - play the QB right away...
That's reality. That's a fact. You can waste your time with hypothetical trade and cut discussions, but the odds highly favor Manning being the starting QB.
That's reality. That's a fact. You can waste your time with hypothetical trade and cut discussions, but the odds highly favor Manning being the starting QB.
go collect your prize,the end.
Now back to your chairs and prepare for the mediocrity!
Ok thx, I’ll mentally prepare.
Giants are taking a qb, be prepared.
If it's about advancing the team's goal of becoming relevant for the next decade I'm in disagreement.
yatqb : 1:04 pm : link : reply
Loyalty to a man who has given us so much is admirable.
If it's about advancing the team's goal of becoming relevant for the next decade I'm in disagreement.
If you want to advance the team's goal of relevance, that can easily be done with Eli as QB this year and then moving on. What's being pointed out several times is if we move away from him creating a dead cap space, that isn't beneficial.
There are very few good reasons to not have Eli on the roster this year. That isn't about loyalty or even an eye to him being awesome - it is the expectation that he's the best QB on the roster, even if one is drafted.
Imo, any trade talk prior to having seeing Webb and whoever in spring training, if not preseason, is far down the list of useful.
Honestly, first step in my head is seeing where we are after FA and after our round one slot of the draft.
It is possible that someplace in later round one a team who needs a QB but does not like the remaining QBs takes a run at seeing where we are on ELi.
Maybe. But thats only possible for us after so many FA permutations and what ifs that we could as reasonably talk about a Brady for Eli swap and how it would invigorate both and cement their legacies.
Lets start that thread?
But we'll have already faced the furor about getting rid of Eli, AND hopefully have gained some draft picks or young players in a trade of him.
Same reason why playing Webb would have been a better choice than Geno last year to the extent the decision was to bench Eli. So the development of Webb and the decision makers around him got some intell on him.
But because there is optimism at 0-0 record Eli should naturally start game 1 in 2018? And when the optimism becomes questionable at 2-5 the Giants should start thinking, maybe now? And then what happens when we hit 4 - 8...is it time?
So under your scenario, Eli still must be the better QB because the backup hasn't played a snap...so why sit Eli?
Isn't he better? Since that is the only thing that matters...
Nick foles
Blake bottles
Were the three starting qbs in the championship games. Eli is better than all of them and some of those teams were dreadful in 2016.
Nick foles
Blake bottles
Were the three starting qbs in the championship games. Eli is better than all of them and some of those teams were dreadful in 2016.
The 2017 Eli is better than the 2017 Keenum, Bottles, and the Super Bowl-winning Foles??
So Eli is better than the Super Bowl MVP! Oh yes, that must be true because our beloved Eli has won it twice while this little lucky bastard Nick Fole has only won it once!! Plus, we all see that Foles had a great defense to rely on while poor Eli had to carry his no-good defense to the titles, big difference.
Nostalgia
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than those 3 guys last year?
Nostalgia
And the same mentality/motive that prompted some BBIers to cry that the Giants organization has somehow “wronged” the beloved Eli, that we Giants fans “don’t deserve Eli”, and a beat-writer to bestow the 2011 Eli the absurdly laughable title of “the reigning best quarterback on earth.”
Jimmy Googs : 1:48 pm : link : reply
is simply wasting time. Every game he starts and snap he takes just "punts" the overall betterment of the team down the road further and further. So the team around the QB should try to develop but don't touch that position?
It isn't wasting time to groom a successor. Throwing a rookie to the wolves will often fail as much as it succeeds, and even recent examples are all over the board. Guys like Wentz and Prescott succeeded. Kizer, Brissett, Goff, and Huntley failed. It would be like saying having Kurt Warner taking snaps punted the overall development of the team, when the exact opposite impact happened.
It really seems that some posters believe that Eli isn't just mediocre, but one of the worst QB's in the league. That's what this boils down to. And believing that would indicate Eli was the reason the team failed and not a system that was complete shit. Based on what a lot of great football analysts have said, I'll believe Mac's system blew. On many levels.
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In comment 13857763 Jimmy Googs said:
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than those 3 guys last year?
Nostalgia
And the same mentality/motive that prompted some BBIers to cry that the Giants organization has somehow “wronged” the beloved Eli, that we Giants fans “don’t deserve Eli”, and a beat-writer to bestow the 2011 Eli the absurdly laughable title of “the reigning best quarterback on earth.”
There is a lot of stupidity in this fan base, and in pro sports in general.
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Playing Eli because he may be the best QB on the roster next year
Jimmy Googs : 1:48 pm : link : reply
is simply wasting time. Every game he starts and snap he takes just "punts" the overall betterment of the team down the road further and further. So the team around the QB should try to develop but don't touch that position?
It isn't wasting time to groom a successor. Throwing a rookie to the wolves will often fail as much as it succeeds, and even recent examples are all over the board. Guys like Wentz and Prescott succeeded. Kizer, Brissett, Goff, and Huntley failed. It would be like saying having Kurt Warner taking snaps punted the overall development of the team, when the exact opposite impact happened.
It really seems that some posters believe that Eli isn't just mediocre, but one of the worst QB's in the league. That's what this boils down to. And believing that would indicate Eli was the reason the team failed and not a system that was complete shit. Based on what a lot of great football analysts have said, I'll believe Mac's system blew. On many levels.
And for me it's not about Eli being horrible, it's about advancing a young QB's development AND getting a higher draft choice in the next year or two.
His team led the league in drops. His teammates suffered horrid injuries in preseason and regular season. His online sucked. And played for an inept coach.
I understand that crapping on Eli is easy cause the team was terrible, but if you don’t think he can play anymore,you’re my bias on Eli than even me.
No. You're supposed to not even try and never draft another QB again in memory of Eli Manning.
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and then coach him up. But if you don't get a new QB, Eli sure isn't gonna be the savior over the long haul, so what do you do then?
No. You're supposed to not even try and never draft another QB again in memory of Eli Manning.
Or pick a qb with the second pick and start Eli. If season goes awry then bring in the rookie.
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and then coach him up. But if you don't get a new QB, Eli sure isn't gonna be the savior over the long haul, so what do you do then?
No. You're supposed to not even try and never draft another QB again in memory of Eli Manning.
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In comment 13857864 yatqb said:
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and then coach him up. But if you don't get a new QB, Eli sure isn't gonna be the savior over the long haul, so what do you do then?
No. You're supposed to not even try and never draft another QB again in memory of Eli Manning.
who said to never draft a qb?
Who said not to? There are plenty of people on this very board saying not to..
That's reality. That's a fact. You can waste your time with hypothetical trade and cut discussions, but the odds highly favor Manning being the starting QB.
Who cares Britt? We all know Eli will be starting week 1 next year. Does that mean without a doubt it is the right decision? The offensive line is going to be just as terrible next year as it has been for 5 years, even if they sign Norwell and draft a couple guys.
You, like many others are just terrified of life after Eli Manning. We want the Giants to draft a QB to help us win for the next 12 years, not 2018.
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In comment 13857873 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 13857864 yatqb said:
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and then coach him up. But if you don't get a new QB, Eli sure isn't gonna be the savior over the long haul, so what do you do then?
No. You're supposed to not even try and never draft another QB again in memory of Eli Manning.
who said to never draft a qb?
Who said not to? There are plenty of people on this very board saying not to..
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In comment 13857884 Bill L said:
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In comment 13857873 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 13857864 yatqb said:
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and then coach him up. But if you don't get a new QB, Eli sure isn't gonna be the savior over the long haul, so what do you do then?
No. You're supposed to not even try and never draft another QB again in memory of Eli Manning.
who said to never draft a qb?
Who said not to? There are plenty of people on this very board saying not to..
to true at all. People are saying use the #2 for something different. Not to never draft a QB. Heck, even the goats are looking at the Harvard guy. Unlikely for at #2
Not all, but some aren't too far away from that opinion. I agree with others in here (and on here) that I'd rather rebuild for the next decade rather than go year by year just because Eli is in the latter stages of his career. Life for the Giants does exist past Eli Manning (or anyother great Giant in Giants history).
But we do have the opportunity with that window to get the best *talent* each year, so either we transition to a better an than this group (by draft or FA) or build the team up to an extent where even a decent QB can be successful. And if, with Eli, we actually win a ton because of bringing in the best talent, while apparently many here will gnash their teeth, I for sure won’t complain.
But we do have the opportunity with that window to get the best *talent* each year, so either we transition to a better an than this group (by draft or FA) or build the team up to an extent where even a decent QB can be successful. And if, with Eli, we actually win a ton because of bringing in the best talent, while apparently many here will gnash their teeth, I for sure won’t complain.
They've been attempting to do this for the last 6 years and it's netted the Giants exactly one playoff berth and elimination in the first round. But if people love the same exactly failing approach every year, so be it.
Another “we let him down”!!!! Poor Eli!!!! And this “we had a dynasty in the making” delusion is as laughable as that “in 2011 Eli was the reigning best QB on earth” statement.
Is it not very very painfully obvious by now that, instead of “a dynasty in the making”, the last 15 year’s of Giants football has been consistently mediocre — a grand total of 8 games above .500 over Eli’s entire career — highlighted by a total of about 8 weeks in which the team managed to catch lightning in a bottle and bring home two two trophies.
Nobody can question the legitimacy of the two titles in the Eli era, but judging from the other 14.5 years of his career besides those 8 playoff weeks, it’s also safe and no shame to conclude that the number one contributor was luck.
Nobody can question the legitimacy of the two titles in the Eli era, but judging from the other 14.5 years of his career besides those 8 playoff weeks, it’s also safe and no shame to conclude that the number one contributor was luck.
It brings a tear to my eye reading your commentary. One of the few who really gets it. Don’t let the bastards grind you down!
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id argue that we can’t dismiss the new sheriff in town aspect of this.
That's fine. But new sheriff or not, he can't defeat Father Time re: Eli.
So no matter what we do this year, the OL will suck? Well, alrighty then.
We've been saying all of this for the past 6 seasons. Hell, alot of people advocting for Eli didn't even start to be critical of Reese up until this past season, very conveniently.
Where it gets interesting is next year, especially if you believe (like I do) that the Giants are capable of having a successful 2018 season. How successful that season is will impact what happens with Eli. It shouldn't be a foregone conclusion that drafting Rosen with the #2 overall pick means Eli has only one year left with the team.
If things are clicking, the Giants are winning, and Super Bowl aspirations are realistic, I have no problem with continuing with Eli in 2019 and having Rosen and Webb spend another year on the bench. But there's also something very, very attractive about shedding the $17M he is due 2019 (in salary and bonus money) and handing the keys to Rosen regardless of what kind of season Eli and the Giants have in 2018.
It's worth paying attention to what happens with Bortles in Jacksonville. He is due $16M in salary in 2019, so if he were to have a bad year, the Jaguars might see the value in dumping him and adding Eli via trade (so they subtract $16M and add $17M). Unfortunately Eli's no-trade clause puts a huge crimp in this plan. If he and the Jaguars know that short of a trade, the Giants will be forced to release him, why agree to a trade?
But the Giants wouldn't be altogether without leverage under this circumstance, especially if it is believed by Eli and Coughlin that the Giants are fully prepared to go into the 2019 with Eli as the starter (and that would only be the case if Eli and the Giants had a good year) and the Jags would have to be offering Eli an extension (otherwise Eli would be content to play out his contract with the Giants). A long shot? Definitely. But it's possible. Just barely.
p.s.--Credit to Tom Condon for putting together a contract that leaves the Giants with very little leverage to trade Eli. The no-trade clause alone isn't an impossible hurdle, but coupled it with a $5M roster bonus due just three days into the new league year, it leaves the Giants with only the tiniest of leverage to pull off a trade.
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Playing Eli because he may be the best QB on the roster next year
Jimmy Googs : 1:48 pm : link : reply
is simply wasting time. Every game he starts and snap he takes just "punts" the overall betterment of the team down the road further and further. So the team around the QB should try to develop but don't touch that position?
It isn't wasting time to groom a successor. Throwing a rookie to the wolves will often fail as much as it succeeds, and even recent examples are all over the board. Guys like Wentz and Prescott succeeded. Kizer, Brissett, Goff, and Huntley failed. It would be like saying having Kurt Warner taking snaps punted the overall development of the team, when the exact opposite impact happened.
It really seems that some posters believe that Eli isn't just mediocre, but one of the worst QB's in the league. That's what this boils down to. And believing that would indicate Eli was the reason the team failed and not a system that was complete shit. Based on what a lot of great football analysts have said, I'll believe Mac's system blew. On many levels.
Its my view and that doesn't make it false so careful with your comments please. I can easily go off how shortsighted your comments are as to how to groom QBs that don't get snaps or gametime or anything.
Bottom line is maturation of the QB and the coaches development of that player require him to play...case closed. Every game that he does not, pushes that process further down the line. I can find a hundred examples that fit into that bell curve while you use examples that fit the edges (and btw - how is Goff a failure??)
And if throwing somebody to the wolves succeeds as much as you say it fails, then lets move on with someone else as you saw what it is doing to Eli.
And if Giant games are going to be compared to playing Offense against wolves, what the hell are we doing letting a 38 year old guy continue to try and compete against that with his declining skills, eyes dropping toward a rush and no mobility? Eli has shown he cannot lift that Offense up for the past several years.
And maybe some posters need to start realizing Eli isn't even mediocre anymore, and that he is dropping into the bottom half of the league at his position. And even if you want to argue mediocre...boy, that's quite the bar we set debating over him starting for our team...
But we do have the opportunity with that window to get the best *talent* each year, so either we transition to a better an than this group (by draft or FA) or build the team up to an extent where even a decent QB can be successful. And if, with Eli, we actually win a ton because of bringing in the best talent, while apparently many here will gnash their teeth, I for sure won’t complain.
And what makes you think we can win a ton by bringing in talent around Eli?
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And I know many here resent the hell out of that.
But we do have the opportunity with that window to get the best *talent* each year, so either we transition to a better an than this group (by draft or FA) or build the team up to an extent where even a decent QB can be successful. And if, with Eli, we actually win a ton because of bringing in the best talent, while apparently many here will gnash their teeth, I for sure won’t complain.
And what makes you think we can win a ton by bringing in talent around Eli?
I’m not saying don’t move on. I’m saying that this ain’t the crop to do it with*because* you have (maybe not depending on clevelands first choice) a unique opportunity its to get a superstar. I also think that we committed to Eli for two years and can get what we pass on this year within the next two years (quality-wise) so use that opportunity to get all the other pieces optimized first.
You need to credit Eli himself as much as anyone else for this wonderful contract. Wonderful, in terms of both number and structure. Wonderful, from Eli’s perspective. Remember Condon structured Peyton’s last contract with the Colts similarly to give him the unconditional freedom he wanted.
Let me repeat, starting from their first day in the NFL which now spans two full decades, every action the Manning brother took was to maximize their own personal interest. Nothing wrong with it at all, and often times — but not always, especially toward the end of one’s career — their own interests aligned with the tean’s interests and delighted us fans. We fans should never ever confuse Mannings’s top priority in their decision-making.
The roster bonus is of very little consequence as it relates to a barrier to a trade (and certainly nothing close the absolute block that a NTC creates). Just look at how many trades have already been agreed to, and the league year doesn't begin for another four days. If Eli were willing (or wanting) to be traded, the roster bonus presents absolutely no obstacle at all - none.
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p.s.--Credit to Tom Condon for putting together a contract that leaves the Giants with very little leverage to trade Eli. The no-trade clause alone isn't an impossible hurdle, but coupled it with a $5M roster bonus due just three days into the new league year, it leaves the Giants with only the tiniest of leverage to pull off a trade.
You need to credit Eli himself as much as anyone else for this wonderful contract. Wonderful, in terms of both number and structure. Wonderful, from Eli’s perspective. Remember Condon structured Peyton’s last contract with the Colts similarly to give him the unconditional freedom he wanted.
Let me repeat, starting from their first day in the NFL which now spans two full decades, every action the Manning brother took was to maximize their own personal interest. Nothing wrong with it at all, and often times — but not always, especially toward the end of one’s career — their own interests aligned with the tean’s interests and delighted us fans. We fans should never ever confuse Mannings’s top priority in their decision-making.
It's not a coincidence that the Manning brothers are #1 and #2 in career NFL earnings. Eli's already #2 and will surpass Peyton for the top spot next season.
unlikely...time to turn over the position
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p.s.--Credit to Tom Condon for putting together a contract that leaves the Giants with very little leverage to trade Eli. The no-trade clause alone isn't an impossible hurdle, but coupled it with a $5M roster bonus due just three days into the new league year, it leaves the Giants with only the tiniest of leverage to pull off a trade.
The roster bonus is of very little consequence as it relates to a barrier to a trade (and certainly nothing close the absolute block that a NTC creates).
unlikely...time to turn over the position
Yup. Well put Jimmy.
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In comment 13857945 Milton said:
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p.s.--Credit to Tom Condon for putting together a contract that leaves the Giants with very little leverage to trade Eli. The no-trade clause alone isn't an impossible hurdle, but coupled it with a $5M roster bonus due just three days into the new league year, it leaves the Giants with only the tiniest of leverage to pull off a trade.
The roster bonus is of very little consequence as it relates to a barrier to a trade (and certainly nothing close the absolute block that a NTC creates).
The roster bonus forces the Giants to make a decision on Eli by the third day of the league year, so it removes an important piece of leverage in the form of time. If the $17M due Eli was all salary, the Giants could hold onto him all the way up until September before releasing him. Any team that desires his services is surely going to want him sooner rather than later.
I'll repeat - look at how many trades have been agreed to before the league year even started. The only thing it removes is the late preseason injury-inspired trade (a la Sam Bradford to the Vikings in 2016). But Eli's NTC already accomplishes that - if he's going to waive it, it would almost certainly be conditional with very limited destinations that he'd reserve the right to approve.
The roster bonus creates absolutely zero incremental obstacle to trading Eli. None.
The roster bonus creates absolutely zero incremental obstacle to trading Eli. None.
Of course it’s not a coincident. When you are #1 and #2 in the all-time list of something enviable in the world of professional sports, it could not possibly have happened by accident, it could not possibly have happened with the kind of “I don’t really worry about it. I just do my job on the field and those things will take care of themselves” laidback attitude, even if he sincerely talked/acted that way when the camera was on.
It happened, only because the player who achieved it fiercely wanted it to happen, never missing an opportunity to get more, and consistently over a long 15, 20-year periods. That is true for the #1 all-time passer, all-time rusher, all-time playoff winner, and course in Manning brothers’s case, the all-time #1 and #2 money-earners.
I'm not sure how that can be the case. When he leaves, they will need a quarterback.
The quarterback that's going to be appealing to you, the kind of QB that you've said isn't there this season, that player doesn't fall outside of the top five. If you're going to go through all the process of making the team better when you know your current QB is already pushing 40, what you will end up with is a decent team that doesn't have a QB and won't be in a position to draft the one that satisfies your impression of what a top QB should appear to be.
And even that plan assumes there's a top quarterback coming down the pipeline. That isn't a given. There isn't one available every year.
The alternative is to try to piece things together by signing a veteran free agent to a massive deal, and available veteran quarterbacks look like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jake Delhomme and Kirk Cousins.
Surely you jest. Bridgewater has a very underwhelming arm which eliminates some key throws. He pushes the ball more than he throws it.
Then there is the issue of him coming off spaghetti knee surgery. He truly one hit away from becoming a college assistant coach. And he wasn’t mobile in the first place...
I can’t think of a QB less designed for what we need...
Whoa...that's nuts.
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Whoa...that's nuts.
Nor is it a plan...more like a prayer.
28 games started, 28 touchdowns, 22 INTs, and a devastating knee injury that scared off the team that drafted him and kept him out of football for two seasons. It's weird that you'd be okay with this.
Lot a of assumptions without proof.
Lot a of assumptions without proof.
Of course it does. What else do you need to see with Eli to give you pause...
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Rebuilding starts with Webb or number 2pick.
Lot a of assumptions without proof.
Of course it does. What else do you need to see with Eli to give you pause...
A healthy and performing cast. A competent coaching staff.
Again take a qb 2. Let Eli start. If team Ian doing well, keep him in there. If we go 0-4 or 1-5, pull him.
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In comment 13858211 dep026 said:
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Rebuilding starts with Webb or number 2pick.
Lot a of assumptions without proof.
Of course it does. What else do you need to see with Eli to give you pause...
A healthy and performing cast. A competent coaching staff.
Again take a qb 2. Let Eli start. If team Ian doing well, keep him in there. If we go 0-4 or 1-5, pull him.
Can't argue with that concept. Other than I expect it too happen therefore I would preempt it with a change before it happens...
2. Injuries early on
3. Eli didnt play well to start
4. His supporting cast was one of the worst in the league.
5. We were clearly outcoached.
Now I know a lot of people wanted Webb, but he was clearly not ready. Throwing him into the fire when he was not NFL ready with a poor team is not the answer. Actually, it is more detrimental. If you look at his workout videos with his trainer, you still see a lot of flaws with footwork. Not getting deep enough on drops, gather step on timing routes, high throws, etc.... he was basically relearning the position.
NBow if the Giants think he is the goods, then dont take a QB at 2 and take Nelson. If Eli starts off slow, then put Webb in there.
There was no harm playing Eli almost every game last year. And there will be no harm at least starting him next year. We all know father time is comign to an end, but he deserves the chance going in for one last shot with good coaching and a healthy team.
The offense sucked in 2016.....It was an illusion with OBj taking short passes to the house....
last season, the offense was decimated....Eli either had to hold onto the ball too long, or force throws for the same reason....no one could get open....
But let's face it, at this point in time, Eli is only as good as the line in front of him....it will take a miracle for this OL to come together in a short time....
The offense sucked in 2016.....It was an illusion with OBj taking short passes to the house....
last season, the offense was decimated....Eli either had to hold onto the ball too long, or force throws for the same reason....no one could get open....
But let's face it, at this point in time, Eli is only as good as the line in front of him....it will take a miracle for this OL to come together in a short time....