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I wish that we could trade Eli.

yatqb : 3/9/2018 7:16 pm
This roster is so thin that getting rid of him and going for the full rebuild would be my preference. I love Eli, but if he waived his no trade clause I'd trade him, because this team is quite a ways from a SB contender, and I'd prefer to suffer for a few more years with the hope that we could draft high again next year and rebuild the whole roster.

We'd recoup about $10M this year against the cap (but have $12M in dead cap costs) and would have $17M more cap space next offseason.

Eli is obviously not part of our future, so IMO it would be time to cut bait if he'd be willing to waive the no trade and we found a team interested in him.

(I know this has been beaten to death, but I was looking over the roster again, and I can't identify any other players who might be possible trade bait given their cap hits and/or talent level. We really are thin!)
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Eli isn't the #1 problem. But replacing the QB as soon as possible  
Jimmy Googs : 3/10/2018 12:23 pm : link
should be the #1 goal of the Giants.

If you think Eli has value for the Giants then you probably should think he has value for other teams so take the pick(s) to help balance the dead money. I don't think he does so I would go with the outright release based on how the Draft should proceed.

There may be dead money but there is also a lot of wasted salaries being paid on the team while we continue to struggle on Offense and delay the inevitable...
RE: Another  
sundayatone : 3/10/2018 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13857594 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
gem of a post by sundayatone.

If you read my comment and picture me in Manning pajamas, then you match the mental picture I have of you being a fucking ignorant asswipe.

Good job.


that is funny,well played.
But but but Eli is in steep decline  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/10/2018 12:27 pm : link
Start young Geno Smith and we 11-5!

The stupid is strong around here. Least of my concern is a two time SB winning QB under 40 with almost a 0 injury history.
You..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/10/2018 12:28 pm : link
act as if the dead money is no big deal.

Quote:
I don't think he does so I would go with the outright release based on how the Draft should proceed.


An outright release is probably the worst option that can be taken. But then again having the stance that eli has no value to the team isn't really a very good opinion either.

Creating dead money is never a good idea. It's not even an OK idea. All it does is literally create a $12M hole.
But what's rational is to waste 1 - 2 more seasons  
Jimmy Googs : 3/10/2018 12:29 pm : link
playing a QB that is taking us nowhere while he clogs up starting time from the next guy that may...
RE: You..  
Jimmy Googs : 3/10/2018 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13857602 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
act as if the dead money is no big deal.


You act as if this should prevent coming to grips on how teams restructure...
If you move..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/10/2018 12:35 pm : link
Eli next year, how is that wasting 1-2 years of a QB's development?

Rosen seems to be the only QB that might have a shot to step in quickly. The others would most likely be better served to sit a year as the backup.

I'm not advocating Eli is going to be here 4-6 more years. I'm just saying there are few positives on moving him. Hardly any benefit to doing it this year UNLESS a team makes an incredible offer (and Eli agrees). Next year becomes much easier and cap friendly to move him, either via trade or release.
Well...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/10/2018 12:39 pm : link
I take that stance because it should be that way:

Quote:
You act as if this should prevent coming to grips on how teams restructure...


You keep talking about coming to grips. What is there to come to grips about? Here is how negligent it would be to create dead money. You could have Eli serve as the backup for this year if the staff feels he is a liability and we'd still be better off capwise.

This isn't about restructuring. You can restructure a number of ways. We seemingly disagree on this, but "restructuring" using Eli as the starter this year is likely both the most rational and the most prudent way to do so.
I think he can be designated a post June 1 cut  
Jimmy Googs : 3/10/2018 12:44 pm : link
which would split the dead money over 2 years which is very doable. It wouldn't create money to use until after Free Agency is over, but there are usually still guys unsigned at the time if still see some value and want to spend, or you save some of it for the inevitable usage during the season when we put 20 guys on IR.

Nevertheless keep paying him and giving him roster bonuses while the Offense flounders is becoming the norm...



RE: But what's rational is to waste 1 - 2 more seasons  
bw in dc : 3/10/2018 12:44 pm : link
In comment 13857607 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
playing a QB that is taking us nowhere while he clogs up starting time from the next guy that may...


I go back and forth on that. The NFL is certainly morphing into an environment where it's more baptism by fire for these young QBs - get in right away and play. And there is more than enough good results to say that works...

Nothing beats real game experience.

On the other hand, some guys just need time to adapt and being exposed early is the worst decision. It's just figuring out what the best formula is for that QB.

Lately, I'm going with the vogue move - play the QB right away...
Here's what people need to come to grips with....  
Britt in VA : 3/10/2018 12:57 pm : link
Eli Manning will be the starting QB for the New York Giants in 2018.

That's reality. That's a fact. You can waste your time with hypothetical trade and cut discussions, but the odds highly favor Manning being the starting QB.
Yat, you don’t deserve some of these responses.  
Keith : 3/10/2018 12:58 pm : link
It’s a reasonable thought. Unless Eli has a huge year(highly doubtful), I expect him to be moved sometime before next season when our new QB that we are drafting at 2 takes over. The worst thing the giants could do is draft for the short term. Gotta get one of these blue chip qb prospects.
RE: Here's what people need to come to grips with....  
sundayatone : 3/10/2018 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13857666 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Eli Manning will be the starting QB for the New York Giants in 2018.

That's reality. That's a fact. You can waste your time with hypothetical trade and cut discussions, but the odds highly favor Manning being the starting QB.


go collect your prize,the end.
Agree Brit. As you can see, I am struggling coming to grips with  
Jimmy Googs : 3/10/2018 12:59 pm : link
that bad fact...
Drafting a QB at 2 isn't a lock, either.  
Britt in VA : 3/10/2018 1:01 pm : link
Sure they may do it, but they may not. Hope some of you guys are prepared for that.
El Presidente of the EFC...  
bw in dc : 3/10/2018 1:01 pm : link
has spoken - no more debate on Eli.

Now back to your chairs and prepare for the mediocrity!
I'll take that.  
Britt in VA : 3/10/2018 1:02 pm : link
.
RE: Drafting a QB at 2 isn't a lock, either.  
Keith : 3/10/2018 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13857679 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Sure they may do it, but they may not. Hope some of you guys are prepared for that.


Ok thx, I’ll mentally prepare.

Giants are taking a qb, be prepared.
For those who want us to keep Eli for loyalty's sake, I applaud you.  
yatqb : 3/10/2018 1:04 pm : link
Loyalty to a man who has given us so much is admirable.

If it's about advancing the team's goal of becoming relevant for the next decade I'm in disagreement.
It's not about loyalty  
Britt in VA : 3/10/2018 1:09 pm : link
it's the best option for the New York Giants next year, and they see it that way as well.
Giants have been plenty loyal to Eli.  
Keith : 3/10/2018 1:10 pm : link
He’s been paid handsomely as a giant. We’ve always taken care of him. He’s been a great giant in and off the field and represented himself and the organization well. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s a perfect time to start the transition.
Has there even..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/10/2018 1:21 pm : link
been people here claiming Eli should stay out of loyalty?

Quote:
For those who want us to keep Eli for loyalty's sake, I applaud you.
yatqb : 1:04 pm : link : reply
Loyalty to a man who has given us so much is admirable.

If it's about advancing the team's goal of becoming relevant for the next decade I'm in disagreement.


If you want to advance the team's goal of relevance, that can easily be done with Eli as QB this year and then moving on. What's being pointed out several times is if we move away from him creating a dead cap space, that isn't beneficial.

There are very few good reasons to not have Eli on the roster this year. That isn't about loyalty or even an eye to him being awesome - it is the expectation that he's the best QB on the roster, even if one is drafted.
FMIC  
Bill2 : 3/10/2018 1:23 pm : link
Of course.

Imo, any trade talk prior to having seeing Webb and whoever in spring training, if not preseason, is far down the list of useful.

Honestly, first step in my head is seeing where we are after FA and after our round one slot of the draft.

It is possible that someplace in later round one a team who needs a QB but does not like the remaining QBs takes a run at seeing where we are on ELi.

Maybe. But thats only possible for us after so many FA permutations and what ifs that we could as reasonably talk about a Brady for Eli swap and how it would invigorate both and cement their legacies.

Lets start that thread?
FMIC, that $12M a sunk cost already.  
yatqb : 3/10/2018 1:41 pm : link
We SAVE $10M against the cap, and if we land a crappy vet to play for 6 games before we let our kid QB take the reins, we're about even cap-wise.

But we'll have already faced the furor about getting rid of Eli, AND hopefully have gained some draft picks or young players in a trade of him.
And Britt, I'd argue that it shouldn't be about next year,  
yatqb : 3/10/2018 1:42 pm : link
but the decade following it.
Playing Eli because he may be the best QB on the roster next year  
Jimmy Googs : 3/10/2018 1:48 pm : link
is simply wasting time. Every game he starts and snap he takes just "punts" the overall betterment of the team down the road further and further. So the team around the QB should try to develop but don't touch that position?

Same reason why playing Webb would have been a better choice than Geno last year to the extent the decision was to bench Eli. So the development of Webb and the decision makers around him got some intell on him.

But because there is optimism at 0-0 record Eli should naturally start game 1 in 2018? And when the optimism becomes questionable at 2-5 the Giants should start thinking, maybe now? And then what happens when we hit 4 - 8...is it time?

So under your scenario, Eli still must be the better QB because the backup hasn't played a snap...so why sit Eli?

Isn't he better? Since that is the only thing that matters...

Looking back  
dep026 : 3/10/2018 1:52 pm : link
Case Keenum
Nick foles
Blake bottles

Were the three starting qbs in the championship games. Eli is better than all of them and some of those teams were dreadful in 2016.
What makes you think Eli was playing a higher level  
Jimmy Googs : 3/10/2018 1:56 pm : link
than those 3 guys last year?
RE: Looking back  
LAXin : 3/10/2018 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13857754 dep026 said:
Quote:
Case Keenum
Nick foles
Blake bottles

Were the three starting qbs in the championship games. Eli is better than all of them and some of those teams were dreadful in 2016.


The 2017 Eli is better than the 2017 Keenum, Bottles, and the Super Bowl-winning Foles??

So Eli is better than the Super Bowl MVP! Oh yes, that must be true because our beloved Eli has won it twice while this little lucky bastard Nick Fole has only won it once!! Plus, we all see that Foles had a great defense to rely on while poor Eli had to carry his no-good defense to the titles, big difference.
RE: What makes you think Eli was playing a higher level  
Default : 3/10/2018 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13857763 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
than those 3 guys last year?


Nostalgia
RE: RE: What makes you think Eli was playing a higher level  
LAXin : 3/10/2018 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13857772 Default said:
Quote:
In comment 13857763 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


than those 3 guys last year?



Nostalgia


And the same mentality/motive that prompted some BBIers to cry that the Giants organization has somehow “wronged” the beloved Eli, that we Giants fans “don’t deserve Eli”, and a beat-writer to bestow the 2011 Eli the absurdly laughable title of “the reigning best quarterback on earth.”
Again..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/10/2018 2:36 pm : link
this isn't true:

Quote:
Playing Eli because he may be the best QB on the roster next year
Jimmy Googs : 1:48 pm : link : reply
is simply wasting time. Every game he starts and snap he takes just "punts" the overall betterment of the team down the road further and further. So the team around the QB should try to develop but don't touch that position?


It isn't wasting time to groom a successor. Throwing a rookie to the wolves will often fail as much as it succeeds, and even recent examples are all over the board. Guys like Wentz and Prescott succeeded. Kizer, Brissett, Goff, and Huntley failed. It would be like saying having Kurt Warner taking snaps punted the overall development of the team, when the exact opposite impact happened.

It really seems that some posters believe that Eli isn't just mediocre, but one of the worst QB's in the league. That's what this boils down to. And believing that would indicate Eli was the reason the team failed and not a system that was complete shit. Based on what a lot of great football analysts have said, I'll believe Mac's system blew. On many levels.
RE: RE: RE: What makes you think Eli was playing a higher level  
Default : 3/10/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13857776 LAXin said:
Quote:
In comment 13857772 Default said:


Quote:


In comment 13857763 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


than those 3 guys last year?



Nostalgia



And the same mentality/motive that prompted some BBIers to cry that the Giants organization has somehow “wronged” the beloved Eli, that we Giants fans “don’t deserve Eli”, and a beat-writer to bestow the 2011 Eli the absurdly laughable title of “the reigning best quarterback on earth.”


There is a lot of stupidity in this fan base, and in pro sports in general.
RE: Again..  
Matt M. : 3/10/2018 2:39 pm : link
In comment 13857798 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
this isn't true:



Quote:


Playing Eli because he may be the best QB on the roster next year
Jimmy Googs : 1:48 pm : link : reply
is simply wasting time. Every game he starts and snap he takes just "punts" the overall betterment of the team down the road further and further. So the team around the QB should try to develop but don't touch that position?



It isn't wasting time to groom a successor. Throwing a rookie to the wolves will often fail as much as it succeeds, and even recent examples are all over the board. Guys like Wentz and Prescott succeeded. Kizer, Brissett, Goff, and Huntley failed. It would be like saying having Kurt Warner taking snaps punted the overall development of the team, when the exact opposite impact happened.

It really seems that some posters believe that Eli isn't just mediocre, but one of the worst QB's in the league. That's what this boils down to. And believing that would indicate Eli was the reason the team failed and not a system that was complete shit. Based on what a lot of great football analysts have said, I'll believe Mac's system blew. On many levels.
Thank you. I agree 100%
Goff didn't fail. He suffered growing pains and becmae a top QB  
yatqb : 3/10/2018 2:43 pm : link
the next year because he'd gotten that earlier experience.

And for me it's not about Eli being horrible, it's about advancing a young QB's development AND getting a higher draft choice in the next year or two.
Winning games is wasting time???  
Bill L : 3/10/2018 3:01 pm : link
We should move on to getting a new QB purely so we can say we have a new QB. I think people forget what the purpose,of this whole thing is.
Winning two more games, if it means going 6-10 vs. 4-12, doesn't  
yatqb : 3/10/2018 3:04 pm : link
advance the future at all, Bill.
Eli was 5th in the NFL  
dep026 : 3/10/2018 3:05 pm : link
in catchable passes. If you don’t understand what that means., look it up.

His team led the league in drops. His teammates suffered horrid injuries in preseason and regular season. His online sucked. And played for an inept coach.

I understand that crapping on Eli is easy cause the team was terrible, but if you don’t think he can play anymore,you’re my bias on Eli than even me.
RE: Winning two more games, if it means going 6-10 vs. 4-12, doesn't  
Bill L : 3/10/2018 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13857852 yatqb said:
Quote:
advance the future at all, Bill.
yeah, I don’t think picking any of these guys simply to say you did changes that equation for a very long time.
You're right, Bill. You've got to pick the right guy  
yatqb : 3/10/2018 3:11 pm : link
and then coach him up. But if you don't get a new QB, Eli sure isn't gonna be the savior over the long haul, so what do you do then?
We’d be much better off  
Bill L : 3/10/2018 3:11 pm : link
Building the team up and then picking up a Bridgewater or even a McCarron. Those guys are there every off-saesonand the guys even at the top of this draft are there every draft. The other alternative, is wait for a Peyton and tank like crazy.
RE: You're right, Bill. You've got to pick the right guy  
Dave in Hoboken : 3/10/2018 3:14 pm : link
In comment 13857864 yatqb said:
Quote:
and then coach him up. But if you don't get a new QB, Eli sure isn't gonna be the savior over the long haul, so what do you do then?


No. You're supposed to not even try and never draft another QB again in memory of Eli Manning.
RE: RE: You're right, Bill. You've got to pick the right guy  
dep026 : 3/10/2018 3:16 pm : link
In comment 13857873 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13857864 yatqb said:


Quote:


and then coach him up. But if you don't get a new QB, Eli sure isn't gonna be the savior over the long haul, so what do you do then?



No. You're supposed to not even try and never draft another QB again in memory of Eli Manning.


Or pick a qb with the second pick and start Eli. If season goes awry then bring in the rookie.
RE: RE: You're right, Bill. You've got to pick the right guy  
Bill L : 3/10/2018 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13857873 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13857864 yatqb said:


Quote:


and then coach him up. But if you don't get a new QB, Eli sure isn't gonna be the savior over the long haul, so what do you do then?



No. You're supposed to not even try and never draft another QB again in memory of Eli Manning.
who said to never draft a qb?
In fact we drafted a qb  
Bill L : 3/10/2018 3:20 pm : link
Just last year in fact. Who complained? Anyone?
RE: RE: RE: You're right, Bill. You've got to pick the right guy  
Dave in Hoboken : 3/10/2018 3:23 pm : link
In comment 13857884 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13857873 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13857864 yatqb said:


Quote:


and then coach him up. But if you don't get a new QB, Eli sure isn't gonna be the savior over the long haul, so what do you do then?



No. You're supposed to not even try and never draft another QB again in memory of Eli Manning.

who said to never draft a qb?


Who said not to? There are plenty of people on this very board saying not to..

Lol  
Keith : 3/10/2018 3:24 pm : link
Bridewater. Giants are drafting a qb and he will sit behind Eli. If we suck, he may see the field next year. If Eli regains form and we win games, maybe he plays one more year. Better off with bridewater lol.
RE: Here's what people need to come to grips with....  
NYG07 : 3/10/2018 3:24 pm : link
In comment 13857666 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Eli Manning will be the starting QB for the New York Giants in 2018.

That's reality. That's a fact. You can waste your time with hypothetical trade and cut discussions, but the odds highly favor Manning being the starting QB.


Who cares Britt? We all know Eli will be starting week 1 next year. Does that mean without a doubt it is the right decision? The offensive line is going to be just as terrible next year as it has been for 5 years, even if they sign Norwell and draft a couple guys.

You, like many others are just terrified of life after Eli Manning. We want the Giants to draft a QB to help us win for the next 12 years, not 2018.
Sacrilege clown. Eli ranks  
TMS : 3/10/2018 3:30 pm : link
up with the best Giants of all time. He never lets us down, we let him down same as we did with TC. We had a dynasty in the making but were stuck with an arogant incompetent GM and the people he brought in (Ross). Blame the weak Maras for this as much as anybody.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You're right, Bill. You've got to pick the right guy  
Bill L : 3/10/2018 3:32 pm : link
In comment 13857889 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13857884 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 13857873 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13857864 yatqb said:


Quote:


and then coach him up. But if you don't get a new QB, Eli sure isn't gonna be the savior over the long haul, so what do you do then?



No. You're supposed to not even try and never draft another QB again in memory of Eli Manning.

who said to never draft a qb?



Who said not to? There are plenty of people on this very board saying not to..
to true at all. People are saying use the #2 for something different. Not to never draft a QB. Heck, even the goats are looking at the Harvard guy. Unlikely for at #2
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