I'd guess they are looking for a slot CB that better fits into the scheme better. They probably wanted DRC to take a pay cut that would have kept him for just a little bit more than his dead cap hit which would have basically just given them a really cheap depth player in both the slot and outside (and possibly at safety).
I suppose they tried to trade him. I hope they did anyway. There's a chance he still comes back at a lower salary, only if nobody picks him up of course.
He will be in demand and while he may not get $8M, he will get more than what Giants offered him in a rework (I am guessing). Sad. I really like him and think he still has something left. Looking increasingly like they will either draft a franchise QB or trade back and accumulate picks. Make you wonder about the Ogletree trade.
He will be in demand and while he may not get $8M, he will get more than what Giants offered him in a rework (I am guessing). Sad. I really like him and think he still has something left. Looking increasingly like they will either draft a franchise QB or trade back and accumulate picks. Make you wonder about the Ogletree trade.
Not really. They need a LB. Ogletree is young. He will fit in with the rebuild.
with his contract. I'm not crazy about letting him go, but also acknowledge other teams have let him walk too, so there are probably some locker room factors that play into this as well. If so, I am glad they are serious about addressing that.
Will be interesting to see if they can get through to Apple and get him to be a team guy.
This is a business decision - this move had to be made Â
We need to re-apply that $6.5mm elsewhere. He will find another job in the league and get paid but we're not good enough to allocate that much money to a player playing on a pitch count.
target Patrick Robinson. I also don’t think Cockrell is a good bet to be back here.
Why? I honestly get that sense as well, but I don't have any facts to base it on.
Robinson is one of the better slot CB's in the NFL, and while he'll likely get a raise this year it will almost definitely be significantly lower than DRC's cap number. He made the minimum last year. Ranking the Top Slot Defenders of 2017 Season - ( New Window )
Jerry isn't stopping them from going after any OL, same with Harris and Ray Ray Armstrong. I expect we'll here something re: Marshall in the next few days.
DRC staying may have impacted what they do in FA so that's why they had to decide what they thought he was worth and see if he'll take the pay cut now.
Of all the scenarios... I did not expect this. He will be missed.
+1.
After the suspension last year, he was one of the few that made effort, especially the plays where JPP, and the Apple dogged it on the short pass that turned into a long TD.
Hopefully becomes back, cheaper.... doubt it.
The price of the new culture ; but, change happens.
Good luck DRC.
Of all the scenarios... I did not expect this. He will be missed.
+1.
After the suspension last year, he was one of the few that made effort, especially the plays where JPP, and the Apple dogged it on the short pass that turned into a long TD.
Hopefully becomes back, cheaper.... doubt it.
The price of the new culture ; but, change happens.
Good luck DRC.
Pat Traina: Looking at DRC's stats--I had to do a double take. 1 pass defensed in 2017, down from 21 the year prior (yes, there was a position switch involved). Zero INTs for 1st time since 2011. He also started 5 games, down from the 9 he started in 2016.
It makes sense now why they offered the option of a pay cut or release.
Gettleman is going to look at age and look at the reality that while technically the Giants should try to rebuild and win, this is not a 1 year turn around. Not with a 37 year old QB. Time to get younger.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
RE: Obvious ones are less time sensitive since they don't effect FA pans Â
Jerry isn't stopping them from going after any OL, same with Harris and Ray Ray Armstrong. I expect we'll here something re: Marshall in the next few days.
DRC staying may have impacted what they do in FA so that's why they had to decide what they thought he was worth and see if he'll take the pay cut now.
Yea I guess but wouldn't cutting those 3 guys and saving ~6mil between the 3 of them equate to cutting DRC.
Pat Traina: Looking at DRC's stats--I had to do a double take. 1 pass defensed in 2017, down from 21 the year prior (yes, there was a position switch involved). Zero INTs for 1st time since 2011. He also started 5 games, down from the 9 he started in 2016.
It makes sense now why they offered the option of a pay cut or release.
Always better to let a player go a year too early than a year too late.
Gettleman is going to look at age and look at the reality that while technically the Giants should try to rebuild and win, this is not a 1 year turn around. Not with a 37 year old QB. Time to get younger.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
I agree with everything you say, except why "...let Eli keep the team competitive?"
Mediocre and drafting 16th ain't a great way to go.
Eli gives us little -- if any -- chance to get back to the Super Bowl.
Much prefer our #2 QB draft choice become an immediate starter and that the Giants find Eli another team that might benefit from his remaining skill-set.
You're not going to find a veteran CB worth starting that is going to cost less than the $6.5mil DRC was due to make. The Giants better have good plan for the secondary, because right now this move doesn't make much sense.
but that tweet from Pat is an eye opener. He really fell off a cliff. He was 2nd team All Pro in 2016. I think the hand wringing is misplaced, this roster is a mess and it's going to take a rebuild. There's no quick fix here.
RE: RE: Panthers fans warned us about these type of moves with Gettleman Â
At a tough position. It sucks when guys like JPP are making what they make after having a less than zero impact season and we can’t pay a good corner 6 million dollars.
We have a lot of holes but to me this just creates another one. If you really like Apple (I’m not sure how that’s possible, but ok) then keeping DRC would give you 3 decent to good CBS which is the minimum. I agree that the whole team sucked but this just doesn’t make sense to me.
Gettleman is going to look at age and look at the reality that while technically the Giants should try to rebuild and win, this is not a 1 year turn around. Not with a 37 year old QB. Time to get younger.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
I agree with everything you say, except why "...let Eli keep the team competitive?"
Mediocre and drafting 16th ain't a great way to go.
Eli gives us little -- if any -- chance to get back to the Super Bowl.
Much prefer our #2 QB draft choice become an immediate starter and that the Giants find Eli another team that might benefit from his remaining skill-set.
I think you're not totally understanding how bad Eli was last season, WR's or not. He couldn't throw deep, intermediate, or short (even swing passes at the LOS). None of that is likely to improve at age 37. Eli or not, this is a 5/6 win team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Panthers fans warned us about these type of moves with Gettleman Â
This is one of the worst teams in the league. Why would we want it kept together?
Baby ... bath water. Yeah. Just because a TEAM has a bad year doesn't mean every piece of that team needs to go. That is just ridiculous.
One bad year? This team has been a shot show since 2012
And the prior year we had a great defense and went 11-5 and he played awesome. You missed the part and are focusing on the wrong part. But keep trying.
RE: Panthers fans warned us about these type of moves with Gettleman Â
must be more locker room motivated. He is pretty solid.
I don’t like it either, but I’m not so sure it is locker room related. I think the Giants tried to renegotiate his cap number, and both parties couldn’t come to an agreement.
RE: RE: Panthers fans warned us about these type of moves with Gettleman Â
This is one of the worst teams in the league. Why would we want it kept together?
Agree. This team needs a serious rebuild. Horrible OL and LBs. Bad RBs. An aging QB. They have several good players at other positions, but they’re in no position to compete with their current roster.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Panthers fans warned us about these type of moves with Gettleman Â
This is one of the worst teams in the league. Why would we want it kept together?
Baby ... bath water. Yeah. Just because a TEAM has a bad year doesn't mean every piece of that team needs to go. That is just ridiculous.
One bad year? This team has been a shot show since 2012
And the prior year we had a great defense and went 11-5 and he played awesome. You missed the part and are focusing on the wrong part. But keep trying.
How about 2014 15 and last year??? Please the defense played a soft ass schedule in 2016 against some awful teams like the browns rams bears ravens bengals those offenses were terrible that year. Wht happen in the steeler and packer games that year we couldn’t make a dam stop. Defense was overrated in 2016 don’t care what anyone says
What does all that have to do with DRC? He has played well other than last year and last year was a shit show. Yes, the team hasn't played well in years but that isn't the point. The point is that he has played well and we sucked last year. Just because of that doesn't mean he has to go along with everybody else. GoTerps' comment was why should we care if anybody stays. My comment was that the baby doesn't need to be thrown out with the bathwater. It is a simple concept to understand. Cherry picking one piece of my post is just ridiculous on your end. He was an all-pro player in 2016 after switching to a new position because Apple couldn't handle it so he was being a team player and succeeded in that role. Also, releasing him just creates another hole to fill. Imo, $6.48 mil is a good value for what he brings to the table. I will give Gettleman the benefit of the doubt here because he has been doing some good stuff so far but I wouldn't have done this. I would have found money elsewhere.
Gettleman is going to look at age and look at the reality that while technically the Giants should try to rebuild and win, this is not a 1 year turn around. Not with a 37 year old QB. Time to get younger.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
I agree with everything you say, except why "...let Eli keep the team competitive?"
Mediocre and drafting 16th ain't a great way to go.
Eli gives us little -- if any -- chance to get back to the Super Bowl.
Much prefer our #2 QB draft choice become an immediate starter and that the Giants find Eli another team that might benefit from his remaining skill-set.
I think you're not totally understanding how bad Eli was last season, WR's or not. He couldn't throw deep, intermediate, or short (even swing passes at the LOS). None of that is likely to improve at age 37. Eli or not, this is a 5/6 win team.
He couldn't throw deep, intermediate or short? How did he did throw for 3,500 yards, 19 TDs, and had a QB rating of 80 while playing without his starting WRs?
For real. They like to point to the aberration that was 2016, but that D looked better playing some bad offenses. This team reverted back to the bad team it was from 2013, 2014 and 2015 last season.
Gettleman is going to look at age and look at the reality that while technically the Giants should try to rebuild and win, this is not a 1 year turn around. Not with a 37 year old QB. Time to get younger.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
Was the cancer on the team it started when he didn’t like Goodson telling him what to do ..... good riddance probably wanted to be released anyway knowing there are other teams with a lot of cap space always gets hurt after a tackle adios pal .....
I said last niht that I thought the time DRC would have to decide would be short.
I didn't think Gettleman was in a negotiating mood.
Take it or leave it.
Who's next, and what will their posture be after witnessing this transaction?
I'm suprised we couldn't at least get back a 6th round pick for him Â
His deal wasn't bad for a starting corner. A little more than a year ago they named him 2nd team all-pro. Until I see where the money goes/who the money goes to, this is a bad move IMO. Solder and Norwell need to be brought in.
You're not going to find a veteran CB worth starting that is going to cost less than the $6.5mil DRC was due to make. The Giants better have good plan for the secondary, because right now this move doesn't make much sense.
Unless DRC is a locker room problem. If he's isn't
I'd have kept him for one more year. There must be big
plans in FA. I presume there is going to be 2 major
FA's.
It was time to move on.
6.5M extra in cap space.
Use 8M for 2 CBs and We will be just fine at the CB position.
With Wing and now DRC gone and Ogletree 7M roster bonus turing into signing bonus the Giants should have 26.7million in cap space. Enough to give Norwell 13M and Solder 10.
this is business and Eagles are proof that you don't need an amazing secondary to be dominate defense. You need a dominate Dline like the Giants had in the past as well to beat the Pats. Great Dline make the secondary better. So with that said, draft Chubb:)
Is Eli now just being kept for a 1-year transition to the next QB? Because it seems like they are starting to blow this up.
May be. Mara after the debacle, then Mara, DG, and Shurmur committed to Eli for 2018, with no such verbal commitment to '19.
Barring another early crash and burn,its a wait and see thereafter, and possibly that day of a management business decision us Eliaphiles dread may be upon us then.
Barring a tradition meltdown by ownership and grabbing my guy Mayfield, no other QB excites me; that said, I'm thinking #2 will be a QB pick.
if they think there's a franchise QB available to them in the draft (or FA) they would be stupid to pass them up.
At the same time, they would be stupid to cut Eli or not start him if he's the best option available to them.
Both of these things can coexist. You can build a team by adding the best players possible for the future and continue to give Eli Manning first crack as starter. One doesn't prohibit the other right now. Cutting DRC is much more a vote of confidence for Eli Apple getting a chance under this new regime than having anything to do with Eli Manning.
A vote of confidence for Apple is a whole different animal Â
Is Eli now just being kept for a 1-year transition to the next QB? Because it seems like they are starting to blow this up.
Marshall is likely next, which adds yet another need. Creating more roster holes doesnt mesh with talking about being close.
If they think the players they are cutting are overpaid then it does. Their money can be invested in more productive players. Especially when you consider new regimes tend to have turnover with holdovers who may not be good fits for new schemes. DRC fits that category.
Also the biggest things Gettleman and Shurmur have talked about improving - running the football, stopping the run. DRC and Marshall free up more than $10m to reinvest in doing exactly that.
RE: A vote of confidence for Apple is a whole different animal Â
. Granted DG has said ad nauseum that everyone has a clean slate but this would be a gamble.
Though I suppose it may not be since they really can't cut him without taking a punch in the gut.
Apple and DRC are both outside CB's. DRC has already said he's going to look to go back outside wherever he signs. Reading the writing on the wall with the position switch talk, they knew they had 3 guys for 2 spots. I don't like Apple because he seems like a loser and it's rare that a player's instincts can get better. I think DRC is a better player and better teammate. But he saves more money and he's 10 years older so I get choosing Apple over him. Making the opposite move may have been better in the short term but it would have reduced the amount of money saved to reinvest in the trenches and obviously would have had a shorter shelf life. Unless another team was willing to give up a high pick for Apple, but I doubt that's the case.
RE: Man there are people really kidding themselves about what this team is Â
but a hard move because of the position he plays. The reality is this- he is a person of low character and can't be relied on. Whether being a pussy about an injury (see 2016 playoff game) or last years attitude problem, you can't go to war with this guy. That's why he is gone. That is why gutless Brad Wing is gone. And in the end that is why there is ZERO chance of OBJ getting a big contract with us. No chance. Will never happen. We should trade him- but Gettleman may think it is too destabilizing. Believe me though, if the right trade offer comes along, he won't be a Giant either. Thank God.
You're not going to find a veteran CB worth starting that is going to cost less than the $6.5mil DRC was due to make. The Giants better have good plan for the secondary, because right now this move doesn't make much sense.
Unless DRC is a locker room problem. If he's isn't
I'd have kept him for one more year. There must be big
plans in FA. I presume there is going to be 2 major
FA's.
Expcept he didn’t start last year and was benched for Apple the year before at times and in the playoffs. DB’s of average skill are plentiful as free agent rookies or veterans. If Jenkins can still play and apple is at least adequate, i’m 100% comfortable with team going with cheaper options for roster. Defoe is e backs are always getting hurt. Almost as risky as paying runningbacks or linebackers
Reports that her sources told her at the combine that we should expect Gettleman to make a run on CBs during FA and the draft. Looks like he’ll have to now.
Also, he did the same in Carolina.
Fitzpatrick has got to be on the short list, right?
RE: RE: Man there are people really kidding themselves about what this team is Â
.
Truth. But you Never know what can be rebuilt by adding tough hard working system players cheaper than the divas that infested this current roster. They could be competitive quickly or stink for 20 years.
Yup. And that's why ownership was right to clean house rather than have Reese and co continue in win now mode.
Reports that her sources told her at the combine that we should expect Gettleman to make a run on CBs during FA and the draft. Looks like he’ll have to now.
Also, he did the same in Carolina.
Fitzpatrick has got to be on the short list, right?
Why move a fine safety to corner? If he were a cover man, he'd have been one in Saban's defense.
Is Eli now just being kept for a 1-year transition to the next QB? Because it seems like they are starting to blow this up.
Blow what up? This team is essentially the Hindenburg, blowing up something that's on fire doesn't really make it worse. The team and culture got bad in a hurry, this is a positive move.
But this season>postseason is just like the election last year. Leading up to it everybody became a political analyst and started following the news and breaking down decisions with their newly contrived political dogmas. I couldnt WAIT for it to be over because of that sorta like it felt like an eternity waiting for the Giants season to end. Now that the election is over, it is even worse with both sides fighting each other and labeling each other as _______. Now that the season is over, and despite getting exactly what we wanted (Mac and Reese both gone and a high draft pick with potentially all of the potential QB options OR the best draft prospect in over a decade available when we pick, we are wringing our hands over a 31 y/o CB who is coming off a down year who didnt accept a pay cut.
Jesus fucking Christ, come back to Earth. This was not a good team. Only one team had a worse record than ours. There has to be a reckoning.
Don't see how anyone can answer that question until we know who is in line to replace Eli. Webb, maybe. A draft choice in 2018 perhaps but there is no clear picture until DG makes it clear to all of us.
He still has ALL-PRO ability, but this is a "one year early rather than one year too late move", AND it's a "shot over the bow" signal to anybody else who has shown any sign of "dragging their ass".
I would forcefully disagree that this is a nod of confidence for Apple. This guy's a full-blow neurotic who has never shown 1st round type performance either in college or the pros. He's on a thin thread.
If anything it's an acknowledgement that Cockrell may the answer (at a lot cheaper price).
It’s a piece but we need to see rest of the puzzle. I do wish they could have gotten something for him in a deal though. Who knows if that was explored.
Not many 32 year old slot CB's are worth $8.5M... Â
But this season>postseason is just like the election last year. Leading up to it everybody became a political analyst and started following the news and breaking down decisions with their newly contrived political dogmas. I couldnt WAIT for it to be over because of that sorta like it felt like an eternity waiting for the Giants season to end. Now that the election is over, it is even worse with both sides fighting each other and labeling each other as _______. Now that the season is over, and despite getting exactly what we wanted (Mac and Reese both gone and a high draft pick with potentially all of the potential QB options OR the best draft prospect in over a decade available when we pick, we are wringing our hands over a 31 y/o CB who is coming off a down year who didnt accept a pay cut.
Jesus fucking Christ, come back to Earth. This was not a good team. Only one team had a worse record than ours. There has to be a reckoning.
Kind of what a discussion board does.
I have a feeling we fans have continually overrated DRC... Â
...it seems that every year there have been whispers that he would be released and this year it finally happened. In fact, you can go all the way back to when the Giants first signed him to a contract that was for far less money than he was predicted to get at the outset of free agency that year. It's as if the fans (myself included) and media are seeing one guy while management and coaches are seeing another.
But Isaiah Oliver, Mike Hughes, Jaire Alexander, and Carlton Davis could all be in the mix with the 34th pick. And there are some interesting CBs to choose from well into Day 3. It's not a bad year for CB.
RE: Man there are people really kidding themselves about what this team is Â
...it seems that every year there have been whispers that he would be released and this year it finally happened. In fact, you can go all the way back to when the Giants first signed him to a contract that was for far less money than he was predicted to get at the outset of free agency that year. It's as if the fans (myself included) and media are seeing one guy while management and coaches are seeing another.
It’s a cap issue not a talent issue. If it was a talent issue they wouldn’t have asked him to take a pay cut. They would’ve just cut him.
DRC stunk last year. I don't care what he did 2-3 years ago. If they let Cockrell walk...that's a reason to be upset...not getting rid of DRC and saving significant $$$.
RE: RE: I have a feeling we fans have continually overrated DRC... Â
It’s a cap issue not a talent issue. If it was a talent issue they wouldn’t have asked him to take a pay cut. They would’ve just cut him.
Without knowing what kind of pay cut they were asking him to accept, you really can't say that for sure. Time will tell when we see how much money DRC gets on the open market and how much the Giants spend on his replacement.
So true...the lack of pass rush with this team (especially rushing 4 guys) is hard to believe. An edge rusher is just as important as fixing the Oline.
Struggled last year and some maturity issues exposed. However, he has talent.
When you have a shaky coaching regime - the flaws get exposed quicker. They get a decent pass rush - and some off season head clearing - I think he'll be okay.
Gettleman is going to look at age and look at the reality that while technically the Giants should try to rebuild and win, this is not a 1 year turn around. Not with a 37 year old QB. Time to get younger.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
This.
This idea that we are a couple of players away is laughable.
DRC stunk last year. I don't care what he did 2-3 years ago. If they let Cockrell walk...that's a reason to be upset...not getting rid of DRC and saving significant $$$.
Pretty sure his level of play and the dissension in the locker room were hand in hand. DRC loved being a Giant and played hard when called upon. Show some fucking class.
Talent aside, he has poor instincts. Cannot remember seeing a cornerback with less instincts as far as looking back for the ball or taking poorer angles. Mechanics can be corrected, instincts rarely.
Is Eli now just being kept for a 1-year transition to the next QB? Because it seems like they are starting to blow this up.
Eli’s agent was smart to put in no trade clause because if I was GM I would have tried to trade him then get a bridge QB to transition to rookie somebody nobody has much allegiance to instead of another possible Eli PR nightmare if Eli and the team flounder early next season
The signing of Ogletree leans you in one direction, and the DRC cut leans you in another...
Not really. They won’t to win more. And if you can add two FA OL instead of 1 by cutting DRC is it a really bad move? We need to wait an see but If he can’t play starter snaps why pay him starter money? He hasn’t played as a starter in 2 years. Perfect example was vs Green Bay in the playoffs. Je got hurt early and IMO it really affected the D. This is no different than if they don’t re-sign Pugh. Never mind the cluster fuck the secondary became . He was part of that meltdown. Maybe not all of his making but the hysteria over cutting him seems a bit out of proportion when looking at his snaps, age and the situation
People seem to love analytics and often swear by them until a guy they like is cut. An aging vet whose career here was filled w all kinds of dings and small Nagging injuries whose snaps had to be controlled is released. How can anyone be surprised or confused?
People here wanted Belichick back and this is exactly what he would do and when he does it no ever accuses him of not wanting to win.
because they have the boundary as a helper, thus Apple was plugged in outside to help him adjust to the NFL game. The added bonus was playing slot reduced DRC's reps at a time where he was getting banged up on the wrong side of 30, and it was part of the friction with the coaches.
This is the first move since Gettleman got here that I don't get.
.
What’s isn’t there or get? He’s physically incapable of playing more than part time. Always dinged up. Hasn’t been a starter for two years. Find a 3rd CB who plays that little anywhere in the NFL. And his salary won’t be 8-9 million.
at 8.5 is more valuable than both Marshall and Harris combined for less money. Plus there's no reason to assume DRC would strictly be a slot CB. Apple is a basket case leaving you in a desperate position and likely an area where the Giants will now have to overpay to replace the "overpaid" DRC.
DRC - ( New Window )
I'd guess they are looking for a slot CB that better fits into the scheme better. They probably wanted DRC to take a pay cut that would have kept him for just a little bit more than his dead cap hit which would have basically just given them a really cheap depth player in both the slot and outside (and possibly at safety).
He could come back at the Giants' price , if there's little interest
Not really. They need a LB. Ogletree is young. He will fit in with the rebuild.
Will be interesting to see if they can get through to Apple and get him to be a team guy.
Why? I honestly get that sense as well, but I don't have any facts to base it on.
Doubt Apple has much trade value.
Quote:
target Patrick Robinson. I also don’t think Cockrell is a good bet to be back here.
Why? I honestly get that sense as well, but I don't have any facts to base it on.
Robinson is one of the better slot CB's in the NFL, and while he'll likely get a raise this year it will almost definitely be significantly lower than DRC's cap number. He made the minimum last year.
Ranking the Top Slot Defenders of 2017 Season - ( New Window )
Dwayne Harris, Ray-Ray Armstrong, John Jerry, and at the very least reducing Marshall to a vet min base salary
Agreed.
Cockrell was solid last year, but he is not ideal for Bettcher's scheme. He runs a lot of Press-man coverage while Cockrell is best in a zone scheme.
Robinson is a better fit coming from Jim Schwartz scheme which is similar to Bettcher which is likely the reason he may be a target
DRC staying may have impacted what they do in FA so that's why they had to decide what they thought he was worth and see if he'll take the pay cut now.
+1.
After the suspension last year, he was one of the few that made effort, especially the plays where JPP, and the Apple dogged it on the short pass that turned into a long TD.
Hopefully becomes back, cheaper.... doubt it.
The price of the new culture ; but, change happens.
Good luck DRC.
+1.
After the suspension last year, he was one of the few that made effort, especially the plays where JPP, and the Apple dogged it on the short pass that turned into a long TD.
Hopefully becomes back, cheaper.... doubt it.
The price of the new culture ; but, change happens.
Good luck DRC.
I think he's going to be hard to replace.
It makes sense now why they offered the option of a pay cut or release.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
DRC staying may have impacted what they do in FA so that's why they had to decide what they thought he was worth and see if he'll take the pay cut now.
Yea I guess but wouldn't cutting those 3 guys and saving ~6mil between the 3 of them equate to cutting DRC.
It makes sense now why they offered the option of a pay cut or release.
Unless its $$ for Nor well since they were almost at -0- with the AO deal and a 9M draft reserve needed.
Aaron Colvin is another intriguing name IMO, but he may be pricey because of his age.
...and so is Eli.
BFD DRC CAP SAVE.
Eli
If they're giving Apple another shot, they have 2 outside CB's. Hard to pay a 31 year old that much money to not even play his ideal position.
We'll see what they do but as speculated above my guess is that Bettcher has a different type of player in mind for the slot role.
Unless its $$ for Nor well since they were almost at -0- with the AO deal and a 9M draft reserve needed.
Now at ~20mil, could get to ~30mil by cutting Marshall, Jerry, Harris, Armstrong.
Plus, I think they will re-stucture Ogletree and prorate his bonus over 4 years, saving another 5.25 mil.
So- the best case scenario for the cap is almost 36mil.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
I agree with everything you say, except why "...let Eli keep the team competitive?"
Mediocre and drafting 16th ain't a great way to go.
Eli gives us little -- if any -- chance to get back to the Super Bowl.
Much prefer our #2 QB draft choice become an immediate starter and that the Giants find Eli another team that might benefit from his remaining skill-set.
This is one of the worst teams in the league. Why would we want it kept together?
Quote:
god this sucks.
This is one of the worst teams in the league. Why would we want it kept together?
Baby ... bath water. Yeah. Just because a TEAM has a bad year doesn't mean every piece of that team needs to go. That is just ridiculous.
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In comment 13858626 OdellBeckhamJr said:
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god this sucks.
This is one of the worst teams in the league. Why would we want it kept together?
Baby ... bath water. Yeah. Just because a TEAM has a bad year doesn't mean every piece of that team needs to go. That is just ridiculous.
One bad year? This team has been a shot show since 2012
We have a lot of holes but to me this just creates another one. If you really like Apple (I’m not sure how that’s possible, but ok) then keeping DRC would give you 3 decent to good CBS which is the minimum. I agree that the whole team sucked but this just doesn’t make sense to me.
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Gettleman is going to look at age and look at the reality that while technically the Giants should try to rebuild and win, this is not a 1 year turn around. Not with a 37 year old QB. Time to get younger.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
I agree with everything you say, except why "...let Eli keep the team competitive?"
Mediocre and drafting 16th ain't a great way to go.
Eli gives us little -- if any -- chance to get back to the Super Bowl.
Much prefer our #2 QB draft choice become an immediate starter and that the Giants find Eli another team that might benefit from his remaining skill-set.
I think you're not totally understanding how bad Eli was last season, WR's or not. He couldn't throw deep, intermediate, or short (even swing passes at the LOS). None of that is likely to improve at age 37. Eli or not, this is a 5/6 win team.
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In comment 13858630 Go Terps said:
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In comment 13858626 OdellBeckhamJr said:
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god this sucks.
This is one of the worst teams in the league. Why would we want it kept together?
Baby ... bath water. Yeah. Just because a TEAM has a bad year doesn't mean every piece of that team needs to go. That is just ridiculous.
One bad year? This team has been a shot show since 2012
And the prior year we had a great defense and went 11-5 and he played awesome. You missed the part and are focusing on the wrong part. But keep trying.
He is going to be 32 in April and he’s not worth what he was making. I love what Gettleman is doing it’s about time we had a GM with balls!!!!!
I don’t like it either, but I’m not so sure it is locker room related. I think the Giants tried to renegotiate his cap number, and both parties couldn’t come to an agreement.
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god this sucks.
This is one of the worst teams in the league. Why would we want it kept together?
Agree. This team needs a serious rebuild. Horrible OL and LBs. Bad RBs. An aging QB. They have several good players at other positions, but they’re in no position to compete with their current roster.
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In comment 13858643 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 13858630 Go Terps said:
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In comment 13858626 OdellBeckhamJr said:
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god this sucks.
This is one of the worst teams in the league. Why would we want it kept together?
Baby ... bath water. Yeah. Just because a TEAM has a bad year doesn't mean every piece of that team needs to go. That is just ridiculous.
One bad year? This team has been a shot show since 2012
And the prior year we had a great defense and went 11-5 and he played awesome. You missed the part and are focusing on the wrong part. But keep trying.
How about 2014 15 and last year??? Please the defense played a soft ass schedule in 2016 against some awful teams like the browns rams bears ravens bengals those offenses were terrible that year. Wht happen in the steeler and packer games that year we couldn’t make a dam stop. Defense was overrated in 2016 don’t care what anyone says
The more changes to the roster the better.
Hate this move.
No regime, big changes.
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god this sucks.
This is one of the worst teams in the league. Why would we want it kept together?
Because DRC is still a game changer.
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god this sucks.
He is going to be 32 in April and he’s not worth what he was making. I love what Gettleman is doing it’s about time we had a GM with balls!!!!!
I guarantee if we extended him today you'd be raving about the move.
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In comment 13858626 OdellBeckhamJr said:
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god this sucks.
He is going to be 32 in April and he’s not worth what he was making. I love what Gettleman is doing it’s about time we had a GM with balls!!!!!
I guarantee if we extended him today you'd be raving about the move.
He’s 32 + on a bad team. That’s an equation that should result in a cap casualty 10 out of 10 times.
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In comment 13858563 Matt in SGS said:
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Gettleman is going to look at age and look at the reality that while technically the Giants should try to rebuild and win, this is not a 1 year turn around. Not with a 37 year old QB. Time to get younger.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
I agree with everything you say, except why "...let Eli keep the team competitive?"
Mediocre and drafting 16th ain't a great way to go.
Eli gives us little -- if any -- chance to get back to the Super Bowl.
Much prefer our #2 QB draft choice become an immediate starter and that the Giants find Eli another team that might benefit from his remaining skill-set.
I think you're not totally understanding how bad Eli was last season, WR's or not. He couldn't throw deep, intermediate, or short (even swing passes at the LOS). None of that is likely to improve at age 37. Eli or not, this is a 5/6 win team.
He couldn't throw deep, intermediate or short? How did he did throw for 3,500 yards, 19 TDs, and had a QB rating of 80 while playing without his starting WRs?
Can’t figure it out. They just cut one of their best players. A team with a lot of holes to fill. Just created another.
Guess they don’t dare ask Eli to take the pay cut.
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In comment 13858654 13ODB said:
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In comment 13858626 OdellBeckhamJr said:
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god this sucks.
He is going to be 32 in April and he’s not worth what he was making. I love what Gettleman is doing it’s about time we had a GM with balls!!!!!
I guarantee if we extended him today you'd be raving about the move.
He’s 32 + on a bad team. That’s an equation that should result in a cap casualty 10 out of 10 times.
Should have traded him, he's going to earn more than $6.5M/year on his next team.
For real. They like to point to the aberration that was 2016, but that D looked better playing some bad offenses. This team reverted back to the bad team it was from 2013, 2014 and 2015 last season.
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Are we trying to win next year or rebuild?
Can’t figure it out. They just cut one of their best players. A team with a lot of holes to fill. Just created another.
Guess they don’t dare ask Eli to take the pay cut.
Best player?
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
I Agree with this
I didn't think Gettleman was in a negotiating mood.
Take it or leave it.
Who's next, and what will their posture be after witnessing this transaction?
Unless DRC is a locker room problem. If he's isn't
I'd have kept him for one more year. There must be big
plans in FA. I presume there is going to be 2 major
FA's.
Pretty sure they know what they are doing and why they are doing it.
Agreed. I also agree with Sammo85 that he's not coming back. Best wishes.
Pretty sure they know what they are doing and why they are doing it.
I think that remains to be seen. It's not like this franchise is on a run of good decisions.
6.5M extra in cap space.
Use 8M for 2 CBs and We will be just fine at the CB position.
With Wing and now DRC gone and Ogletree 7M roster bonus turing into signing bonus the Giants should have 26.7million in cap space. Enough to give Norwell 13M and Solder 10.
Next up should be Brandon Marshall...
Agree.
And Crockrell has a longer shelf life. DRC is only going to be here, max, one more year.
And if you actually consider next year a rebuilding year..... I'm ok with it.
Yup. And unless JPP has a rebirth, he'll get the same treatment next year
May be. Mara after the debacle, then Mara, DG, and Shurmur committed to Eli for 2018, with no such verbal commitment to '19.
Barring another early crash and burn,its a wait and see thereafter, and possibly that day of a management business decision us Eliaphiles dread may be upon us then.
Barring a tradition meltdown by ownership and grabbing my guy Mayfield, no other QB excites me; that said, I'm thinking #2 will be a QB pick.
Marshall is likely next, which adds yet another need. Creating more roster holes doesnt mesh with talking about being close.
At the same time, they would be stupid to cut Eli or not start him if he's the best option available to them.
Both of these things can coexist. You can build a team by adding the best players possible for the future and continue to give Eli Manning first crack as starter. One doesn't prohibit the other right now. Cutting DRC is much more a vote of confidence for Eli Apple getting a chance under this new regime than having anything to do with Eli Manning.
Though I suppose it may not be since they really can't cut him without taking a punch in the gut.
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Is Eli now just being kept for a 1-year transition to the next QB? Because it seems like they are starting to blow this up.
Marshall is likely next, which adds yet another need. Creating more roster holes doesnt mesh with talking about being close.
If they think the players they are cutting are overpaid then it does. Their money can be invested in more productive players. Especially when you consider new regimes tend to have turnover with holdovers who may not be good fits for new schemes. DRC fits that category.
Also the biggest things Gettleman and Shurmur have talked about improving - running the football, stopping the run. DRC and Marshall free up more than $10m to reinvest in doing exactly that.
Though I suppose it may not be since they really can't cut him without taking a punch in the gut.
Apple and DRC are both outside CB's. DRC has already said he's going to look to go back outside wherever he signs. Reading the writing on the wall with the position switch talk, they knew they had 3 guys for 2 spots. I don't like Apple because he seems like a loser and it's rare that a player's instincts can get better. I think DRC is a better player and better teammate. But he saves more money and he's 10 years older so I get choosing Apple over him. Making the opposite move may have been better in the short term but it would have reduced the amount of money saved to reinvest in the trenches and obviously would have had a shorter shelf life. Unless another team was willing to give up a high pick for Apple, but I doubt that's the case.
Yup. And that's why ownership was right to clean house rather than have Reese and co continue in win now mode.
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You're not going to find a veteran CB worth starting that is going to cost less than the $6.5mil DRC was due to make. The Giants better have good plan for the secondary, because right now this move doesn't make much sense.
Unless DRC is a locker room problem. If he's isn't
I'd have kept him for one more year. There must be big
plans in FA. I presume there is going to be 2 major
FA's.
Expcept he didn’t start last year and was benched for Apple the year before at times and in the playoffs. DB’s of average skill are plentiful as free agent rookies or veterans. If Jenkins can still play and apple is at least adequate, i’m 100% comfortable with team going with cheaper options for roster. Defoe is e backs are always getting hurt. Almost as risky as paying runningbacks or linebackers
Also, he did the same in Carolina.
Fitzpatrick has got to be on the short list, right?
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Truth. But you Never know what can be rebuilt by adding tough hard working system players cheaper than the divas that infested this current roster. They could be competitive quickly or stink for 20 years.
Yup. And that's why ownership was right to clean house rather than have Reese and co continue in win now mode.
Also, he did the same in Carolina.
Fitzpatrick has got to be on the short list, right?
Why move a fine safety to corner? If he were a cover man, he'd have been one in Saban's defense.
Jesus fucking Christ, come back to Earth. This was not a good team. Only one team had a worse record than ours. There has to be a reckoning.
He still has ALL-PRO ability, but this is a "one year early rather than one year too late move", AND it's a "shot over the bow" signal to anybody else who has shown any sign of "dragging their ass".
I would forcefully disagree that this is a nod of confidence for Apple. This guy's a full-blow neurotic who has never shown 1st round type performance either in college or the pros. He's on a thin thread.
If anything it's an acknowledgement that Cockrell may the answer (at a lot cheaper price).
11 interceptions in his first 3 years with us but none last year... He was our best defender in 2014 and 2015 and he made the all-pro team in 2016..
Next knowledgeable post you make ... will be your first
Jesus fucking Christ, come back to Earth. This was not a good team. Only one team had a worse record than ours. There has to be a reckoning.
Kind of what a discussion board does.
you ain't kidding Terps. This team has had 5 bad years out of 6 and people are crying about cutting an aging high $$ CB.
It’s a cap issue not a talent issue. If it was a talent issue they wouldn’t have asked him to take a pay cut. They would’ve just cut him.
Without knowing what kind of pay cut they were asking him to accept, you really can't say that for sure. Time will tell when we see how much money DRC gets on the open market and how much the Giants spend on his replacement.
Hope we can still trade Apple for some line help or picks.
Pretty sure they know what they are doing and why they are doing it.
It's almost as if BBI is a collective of different people with differing ideas and opinions.
All the money they tied up at DE - nowhere close to decent return on their investment.
When you have a shaky coaching regime - the flaws get exposed quicker. They get a decent pass rush - and some off season head clearing - I think he'll be okay.
If the Giants go QB at #2, then the answer is, "Sir, yes Sir!"
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BBI frets after the change occurs
Pretty sure they know what they are doing and why they are doing it.
It's almost as if BBI is a collective of different people with differing ideas and opinions.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
This.
This idea that we are a couple of players away is laughable.
Pretty sure his level of play and the dissension in the locker room were hand in hand. DRC loved being a Giant and played hard when called upon. Show some fucking class.
There will be others let go: Hart (already gone), Pugh, Richburg, Darkwa, Marshall, Fluker, Wynn, Bromley, Casillas, Herzlich (possible), maybe Berhe.
Biggest question, IMO, which OL are salvageable. More sepcifically, which OL do the new staff view as talented enough to provide value.
Eli’s agent was smart to put in no trade clause because if I was GM I would have tried to trade him then get a bridge QB to transition to rookie somebody nobody has much allegiance to instead of another possible Eli PR nightmare if Eli and the team flounder early next season
And, you have to help him with pass rush.
Hope we can still trade Apple for some line help or picks.
Trading him would cost cap space. There's really nothing you can do with him.
Don't understand why he didn't replace Apple as outside corner after Apple lost the Eagle game with two blatant PI calls.
Of no use to second guess the front office.
To paraphrase Parcells, the front office is as good as the team's record says it is.
Let the new guys make their personnel calls and we'll see what the result is.
Not really. They won’t to win more. And if you can add two FA OL instead of 1 by cutting DRC is it a really bad move? We need to wait an see but If he can’t play starter snaps why pay him starter money? He hasn’t played as a starter in 2 years. Perfect example was vs Green Bay in the playoffs. Je got hurt early and IMO it really affected the D. This is no different than if they don’t re-sign Pugh. Never mind the cluster fuck the secondary became . He was part of that meltdown. Maybe not all of his making but the hysteria over cutting him seems a bit out of proportion when looking at his snaps, age and the situation
People seem to love analytics and often swear by them until a guy they like is cut. An aging vet whose career here was filled w all kinds of dings and small Nagging injuries whose snaps had to be controlled is released. How can anyone be surprised or confused?
People here wanted Belichick back and this is exactly what he would do and when he does it no ever accuses him of not wanting to win.
So cut Harrison too?
This is the first move since Gettleman got here that I don't get.
It's not complex.
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we can go 3-13 without him and save the cap hit.
So cut Harrison too?
This is the first move since Gettleman got here that I don't get.
What’s isn’t there or get? He’s physically incapable of playing more than part time. Always dinged up. Hasn’t been a starter for two years. Find a 3rd CB who plays that little anywhere in the NFL. And his salary won’t be 8-9 million.
likely done here .. Good Luck to him .....
releasing Cromartie and keeping Apple now thats a ballsy decision....