It was time to move on.
6.5M extra in cap space.
Use 8M for 2 CBs and We will be just fine at the CB position.
With Wing and now DRC gone and Ogletree 7M roster bonus turing into signing bonus the Giants should have 26.7million in cap space. Enough to give Norwell 13M and Solder 10.
this is business and Eagles are proof that you don't need an amazing secondary to be dominate defense. You need a dominate Dline like the Giants had in the past as well to beat the Pats. Great Dline make the secondary better. So with that said, draft Chubb:)
Is Eli now just being kept for a 1-year transition to the next QB? Because it seems like they are starting to blow this up.
May be. Mara after the debacle, then Mara, DG, and Shurmur committed to Eli for 2018, with no such verbal commitment to '19.
Barring another early crash and burn,its a wait and see thereafter, and possibly that day of a management business decision us Eliaphiles dread may be upon us then.
Barring a tradition meltdown by ownership and grabbing my guy Mayfield, no other QB excites me; that said, I'm thinking #2 will be a QB pick.
if they think there's a franchise QB available to them in the draft (or FA) they would be stupid to pass them up.
At the same time, they would be stupid to cut Eli or not start him if he's the best option available to them.
Both of these things can coexist. You can build a team by adding the best players possible for the future and continue to give Eli Manning first crack as starter. One doesn't prohibit the other right now. Cutting DRC is much more a vote of confidence for Eli Apple getting a chance under this new regime than having anything to do with Eli Manning.
A vote of confidence for Apple is a whole different animal Â
Is Eli now just being kept for a 1-year transition to the next QB? Because it seems like they are starting to blow this up.
Marshall is likely next, which adds yet another need. Creating more roster holes doesnt mesh with talking about being close.
If they think the players they are cutting are overpaid then it does. Their money can be invested in more productive players. Especially when you consider new regimes tend to have turnover with holdovers who may not be good fits for new schemes. DRC fits that category.
Also the biggest things Gettleman and Shurmur have talked about improving - running the football, stopping the run. DRC and Marshall free up more than $10m to reinvest in doing exactly that.
RE: A vote of confidence for Apple is a whole different animal Â
. Granted DG has said ad nauseum that everyone has a clean slate but this would be a gamble.
Though I suppose it may not be since they really can't cut him without taking a punch in the gut.
Apple and DRC are both outside CB's. DRC has already said he's going to look to go back outside wherever he signs. Reading the writing on the wall with the position switch talk, they knew they had 3 guys for 2 spots. I don't like Apple because he seems like a loser and it's rare that a player's instincts can get better. I think DRC is a better player and better teammate. But he saves more money and he's 10 years older so I get choosing Apple over him. Making the opposite move may have been better in the short term but it would have reduced the amount of money saved to reinvest in the trenches and obviously would have had a shorter shelf life. Unless another team was willing to give up a high pick for Apple, but I doubt that's the case.
RE: Man there are people really kidding themselves about what this team is Â
but a hard move because of the position he plays. The reality is this- he is a person of low character and can't be relied on. Whether being a pussy about an injury (see 2016 playoff game) or last years attitude problem, you can't go to war with this guy. That's why he is gone. That is why gutless Brad Wing is gone. And in the end that is why there is ZERO chance of OBJ getting a big contract with us. No chance. Will never happen. We should trade him- but Gettleman may think it is too destabilizing. Believe me though, if the right trade offer comes along, he won't be a Giant either. Thank God.
You're not going to find a veteran CB worth starting that is going to cost less than the $6.5mil DRC was due to make. The Giants better have good plan for the secondary, because right now this move doesn't make much sense.
Unless DRC is a locker room problem. If he's isn't
I'd have kept him for one more year. There must be big
plans in FA. I presume there is going to be 2 major
FA's.
Expcept he didn’t start last year and was benched for Apple the year before at times and in the playoffs. DB’s of average skill are plentiful as free agent rookies or veterans. If Jenkins can still play and apple is at least adequate, i’m 100% comfortable with team going with cheaper options for roster. Defoe is e backs are always getting hurt. Almost as risky as paying runningbacks or linebackers
Reports that her sources told her at the combine that we should expect Gettleman to make a run on CBs during FA and the draft. Looks like he’ll have to now.
Also, he did the same in Carolina.
Fitzpatrick has got to be on the short list, right?
RE: RE: Man there are people really kidding themselves about what this team is Â
.
Truth. But you Never know what can be rebuilt by adding tough hard working system players cheaper than the divas that infested this current roster. They could be competitive quickly or stink for 20 years.
Yup. And that's why ownership was right to clean house rather than have Reese and co continue in win now mode.
Reports that her sources told her at the combine that we should expect Gettleman to make a run on CBs during FA and the draft. Looks like he’ll have to now.
Also, he did the same in Carolina.
Fitzpatrick has got to be on the short list, right?
Why move a fine safety to corner? If he were a cover man, he'd have been one in Saban's defense.
Is Eli now just being kept for a 1-year transition to the next QB? Because it seems like they are starting to blow this up.
Blow what up? This team is essentially the Hindenburg, blowing up something that's on fire doesn't really make it worse. The team and culture got bad in a hurry, this is a positive move.
But this season>postseason is just like the election last year. Leading up to it everybody became a political analyst and started following the news and breaking down decisions with their newly contrived political dogmas. I couldnt WAIT for it to be over because of that sorta like it felt like an eternity waiting for the Giants season to end. Now that the election is over, it is even worse with both sides fighting each other and labeling each other as _______. Now that the season is over, and despite getting exactly what we wanted (Mac and Reese both gone and a high draft pick with potentially all of the potential QB options OR the best draft prospect in over a decade available when we pick, we are wringing our hands over a 31 y/o CB who is coming off a down year who didnt accept a pay cut.
Jesus fucking Christ, come back to Earth. This was not a good team. Only one team had a worse record than ours. There has to be a reckoning.
Don't see how anyone can answer that question until we know who is in line to replace Eli. Webb, maybe. A draft choice in 2018 perhaps but there is no clear picture until DG makes it clear to all of us.
He still has ALL-PRO ability, but this is a "one year early rather than one year too late move", AND it's a "shot over the bow" signal to anybody else who has shown any sign of "dragging their ass".
I would forcefully disagree that this is a nod of confidence for Apple. This guy's a full-blow neurotic who has never shown 1st round type performance either in college or the pros. He's on a thin thread.
If anything it's an acknowledgement that Cockrell may the answer (at a lot cheaper price).
It’s a piece but we need to see rest of the puzzle. I do wish they could have gotten something for him in a deal though. Who knows if that was explored.
Not many 32 year old slot CB's are worth $8.5M... Â
But this season>postseason is just like the election last year. Leading up to it everybody became a political analyst and started following the news and breaking down decisions with their newly contrived political dogmas. I couldnt WAIT for it to be over because of that sorta like it felt like an eternity waiting for the Giants season to end. Now that the election is over, it is even worse with both sides fighting each other and labeling each other as _______. Now that the season is over, and despite getting exactly what we wanted (Mac and Reese both gone and a high draft pick with potentially all of the potential QB options OR the best draft prospect in over a decade available when we pick, we are wringing our hands over a 31 y/o CB who is coming off a down year who didnt accept a pay cut.
Jesus fucking Christ, come back to Earth. This was not a good team. Only one team had a worse record than ours. There has to be a reckoning.
Kind of what a discussion board does.
I have a feeling we fans have continually overrated DRC... Â
...it seems that every year there have been whispers that he would be released and this year it finally happened. In fact, you can go all the way back to when the Giants first signed him to a contract that was for far less money than he was predicted to get at the outset of free agency that year. It's as if the fans (myself included) and media are seeing one guy while management and coaches are seeing another.
But Isaiah Oliver, Mike Hughes, Jaire Alexander, and Carlton Davis could all be in the mix with the 34th pick. And there are some interesting CBs to choose from well into Day 3. It's not a bad year for CB.
RE: Man there are people really kidding themselves about what this team is Â
...it seems that every year there have been whispers that he would be released and this year it finally happened. In fact, you can go all the way back to when the Giants first signed him to a contract that was for far less money than he was predicted to get at the outset of free agency that year. It's as if the fans (myself included) and media are seeing one guy while management and coaches are seeing another.
It’s a cap issue not a talent issue. If it was a talent issue they wouldn’t have asked him to take a pay cut. They would’ve just cut him.
DRC stunk last year. I don't care what he did 2-3 years ago. If they let Cockrell walk...that's a reason to be upset...not getting rid of DRC and saving significant $$$.
RE: RE: I have a feeling we fans have continually overrated DRC... Â
It’s a cap issue not a talent issue. If it was a talent issue they wouldn’t have asked him to take a pay cut. They would’ve just cut him.
Without knowing what kind of pay cut they were asking him to accept, you really can't say that for sure. Time will tell when we see how much money DRC gets on the open market and how much the Giants spend on his replacement.
So true...the lack of pass rush with this team (especially rushing 4 guys) is hard to believe. An edge rusher is just as important as fixing the Oline.
Struggled last year and some maturity issues exposed. However, he has talent.
When you have a shaky coaching regime - the flaws get exposed quicker. They get a decent pass rush - and some off season head clearing - I think he'll be okay.
Gettleman is going to look at age and look at the reality that while technically the Giants should try to rebuild and win, this is not a 1 year turn around. Not with a 37 year old QB. Time to get younger.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
This.
This idea that we are a couple of players away is laughable.
DRC stunk last year. I don't care what he did 2-3 years ago. If they let Cockrell walk...that's a reason to be upset...not getting rid of DRC and saving significant $$$.
Pretty sure his level of play and the dissension in the locker room were hand in hand. DRC loved being a Giant and played hard when called upon. Show some fucking class.
Talent aside, he has poor instincts. Cannot remember seeing a cornerback with less instincts as far as looking back for the ball or taking poorer angles. Mechanics can be corrected, instincts rarely.
Is Eli now just being kept for a 1-year transition to the next QB? Because it seems like they are starting to blow this up.
Eli’s agent was smart to put in no trade clause because if I was GM I would have tried to trade him then get a bridge QB to transition to rookie somebody nobody has much allegiance to instead of another possible Eli PR nightmare if Eli and the team flounder early next season
6.5M extra in cap space.
Use 8M for 2 CBs and We will be just fine at the CB position.
With Wing and now DRC gone and Ogletree 7M roster bonus turing into signing bonus the Giants should have 26.7million in cap space. Enough to give Norwell 13M and Solder 10.
Next up should be Brandon Marshall...
Agree.
And Crockrell has a longer shelf life. DRC is only going to be here, max, one more year.
And if you actually consider next year a rebuilding year..... I'm ok with it.
Yup. And unless JPP has a rebirth, he'll get the same treatment next year
May be. Mara after the debacle, then Mara, DG, and Shurmur committed to Eli for 2018, with no such verbal commitment to '19.
Barring another early crash and burn,its a wait and see thereafter, and possibly that day of a management business decision us Eliaphiles dread may be upon us then.
Barring a tradition meltdown by ownership and grabbing my guy Mayfield, no other QB excites me; that said, I'm thinking #2 will be a QB pick.
Marshall is likely next, which adds yet another need. Creating more roster holes doesnt mesh with talking about being close.
At the same time, they would be stupid to cut Eli or not start him if he's the best option available to them.
Both of these things can coexist. You can build a team by adding the best players possible for the future and continue to give Eli Manning first crack as starter. One doesn't prohibit the other right now. Cutting DRC is much more a vote of confidence for Eli Apple getting a chance under this new regime than having anything to do with Eli Manning.
Though I suppose it may not be since they really can't cut him without taking a punch in the gut.
Quote:
Is Eli now just being kept for a 1-year transition to the next QB? Because it seems like they are starting to blow this up.
Marshall is likely next, which adds yet another need. Creating more roster holes doesnt mesh with talking about being close.
If they think the players they are cutting are overpaid then it does. Their money can be invested in more productive players. Especially when you consider new regimes tend to have turnover with holdovers who may not be good fits for new schemes. DRC fits that category.
Also the biggest things Gettleman and Shurmur have talked about improving - running the football, stopping the run. DRC and Marshall free up more than $10m to reinvest in doing exactly that.
Though I suppose it may not be since they really can't cut him without taking a punch in the gut.
Apple and DRC are both outside CB's. DRC has already said he's going to look to go back outside wherever he signs. Reading the writing on the wall with the position switch talk, they knew they had 3 guys for 2 spots. I don't like Apple because he seems like a loser and it's rare that a player's instincts can get better. I think DRC is a better player and better teammate. But he saves more money and he's 10 years older so I get choosing Apple over him. Making the opposite move may have been better in the short term but it would have reduced the amount of money saved to reinvest in the trenches and obviously would have had a shorter shelf life. Unless another team was willing to give up a high pick for Apple, but I doubt that's the case.
Yup. And that's why ownership was right to clean house rather than have Reese and co continue in win now mode.
Quote:
You're not going to find a veteran CB worth starting that is going to cost less than the $6.5mil DRC was due to make. The Giants better have good plan for the secondary, because right now this move doesn't make much sense.
Unless DRC is a locker room problem. If he's isn't
I'd have kept him for one more year. There must be big
plans in FA. I presume there is going to be 2 major
FA's.
Expcept he didn’t start last year and was benched for Apple the year before at times and in the playoffs. DB’s of average skill are plentiful as free agent rookies or veterans. If Jenkins can still play and apple is at least adequate, i’m 100% comfortable with team going with cheaper options for roster. Defoe is e backs are always getting hurt. Almost as risky as paying runningbacks or linebackers
Also, he did the same in Carolina.
Fitzpatrick has got to be on the short list, right?
Quote:
.
Truth. But you Never know what can be rebuilt by adding tough hard working system players cheaper than the divas that infested this current roster. They could be competitive quickly or stink for 20 years.
Yup. And that's why ownership was right to clean house rather than have Reese and co continue in win now mode.
Also, he did the same in Carolina.
Fitzpatrick has got to be on the short list, right?
Why move a fine safety to corner? If he were a cover man, he'd have been one in Saban's defense.
Jesus fucking Christ, come back to Earth. This was not a good team. Only one team had a worse record than ours. There has to be a reckoning.
He still has ALL-PRO ability, but this is a "one year early rather than one year too late move", AND it's a "shot over the bow" signal to anybody else who has shown any sign of "dragging their ass".
I would forcefully disagree that this is a nod of confidence for Apple. This guy's a full-blow neurotic who has never shown 1st round type performance either in college or the pros. He's on a thin thread.
If anything it's an acknowledgement that Cockrell may the answer (at a lot cheaper price).
11 interceptions in his first 3 years with us but none last year... He was our best defender in 2014 and 2015 and he made the all-pro team in 2016..
Next knowledgeable post you make ... will be your first
Jesus fucking Christ, come back to Earth. This was not a good team. Only one team had a worse record than ours. There has to be a reckoning.
Kind of what a discussion board does.
you ain't kidding Terps. This team has had 5 bad years out of 6 and people are crying about cutting an aging high $$ CB.
It’s a cap issue not a talent issue. If it was a talent issue they wouldn’t have asked him to take a pay cut. They would’ve just cut him.
Without knowing what kind of pay cut they were asking him to accept, you really can't say that for sure. Time will tell when we see how much money DRC gets on the open market and how much the Giants spend on his replacement.
Hope we can still trade Apple for some line help or picks.
Pretty sure they know what they are doing and why they are doing it.
It's almost as if BBI is a collective of different people with differing ideas and opinions.
All the money they tied up at DE - nowhere close to decent return on their investment.
When you have a shaky coaching regime - the flaws get exposed quicker. They get a decent pass rush - and some off season head clearing - I think he'll be okay.
If the Giants go QB at #2, then the answer is, "Sir, yes Sir!"
Quote:
BBI frets after the change occurs
Pretty sure they know what they are doing and why they are doing it.
It's almost as if BBI is a collective of different people with differing ideas and opinions.
If I'm the Giants, I'm going QB, let Eli keep the team competitive while they groom his successor, but if you aren't a core player and you are nearing or on the wrong side of 30, they should be cleared out.
This.
This idea that we are a couple of players away is laughable.
Pretty sure his level of play and the dissension in the locker room were hand in hand. DRC loved being a Giant and played hard when called upon. Show some fucking class.
There will be others let go: Hart (already gone), Pugh, Richburg, Darkwa, Marshall, Fluker, Wynn, Bromley, Casillas, Herzlich (possible), maybe Berhe.
Biggest question, IMO, which OL are salvageable. More sepcifically, which OL do the new staff view as talented enough to provide value.
Eli’s agent was smart to put in no trade clause because if I was GM I would have tried to trade him then get a bridge QB to transition to rookie somebody nobody has much allegiance to instead of another possible Eli PR nightmare if Eli and the team flounder early next season