The Record reports the 49ers are "pushing" for free agent OG Andrew Norwell.
Norwell has been strongly linked to the Giants, but the cap-flush 49ers appear ready to make a splash this spring. What we know for sure is that Norwell will not be back in Charlotte.
ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 7m
Many think Andrew Norwell will join the Giants; the 49ers reportedly are trying to prevent that from happening https://t.co/T6Pxn8WdtZ
If Norwell if just too expesive, Spain is a guy I would take here in a heartbeat. TEN may not be able to throw more money in to that OL, and this guy has been a top 6 OG in the NFL the past 2 years. I have some agent-contacts and they all think he is going to be a RFA.
TEN will have the right to match the offer, but they have to allocate money elsewhere.
If Norwell if just too expesive, Spain is a guy I would take here in a heartbeat. TEN may not be able to throw more money in to that OL, and this guy has been a top 6 OG in the NFL the past 2 years. I have some agent-contacts and they all think he is going to be a RFA.
TEN will have the right to match the offer, but they have to allocate money elsewhere.
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
If Norwell is as good as people on here seem to believe, then I can't imagine we don't get outbid for him by some team with much more cap flexibility than we have. So, I am planning on this not happening, but who knows.
I think we will get outbid for his services. I also think if I had the chance to play for the Niners or the Giants, I would go Niners just because their franchise is in way better shape right now with some upside.
We'd talk to Pugh about a return and a position switch to center. He's light for a RT and not enough of a bull at OG but if he moved to the pivot, I think we'd have a great start to rebuilding the OL. He's big for a center, he won't take as much punishment and he's a bright player who I think could easily anchor the OL as a center.
We'd talk to Pugh about a return and a position switch to center. He's light for a RT and not enough of a bull at OG but if he moved to the pivot, I think we'd have a great start to rebuilding the OL. He's big for a center, he won't take as much punishment and he's a bright player who I think could easily anchor the OL as a center.
We'd talk to Pugh about a return and a position switch to center. He's light for a RT and not enough of a bull at OG but if he moved to the pivot, I think we'd have a great start to rebuilding the OL. He's big for a center, he won't take as much punishment and he's a bright player who I think could easily anchor the OL as a center.
That's a great idea, actually.
Except that you have to stay healthy to anchor the OL.
Does that mean they have soured in OJ Howard? Maybe we dodged a bullet there. I for one was clamoring for him last April and when he started to fall, I really thought we were going to trade up and get him. He was definitely the most polished TE going into the draft last year.
We'd talk to Pugh about a return and a position switch to center. He's light for a RT and not enough of a bull at OG but if he moved to the pivot, I think we'd have a great start to rebuilding the OL. He's big for a center, he won't take as much punishment and he's a bright player who I think could easily anchor the OL as a center.
yea, it would be great to have pugh playing center for 8-12 games a season (the only OL position he's never played)
Does that mean they have soured in OJ Howard? Maybe we dodged a bullet there. I for one was clamoring for him last April and when he started to fall, I really thought we were going to trade up and get him. He was definitely the most polished TE going into the draft last year.
I don't think so. They use both players on the field at the same time frequently. Brate is more commonly used as the receiving TE, however, with Howard used more often as a blocker. Which is odd to me given Howard's exceptional speed.
We'd talk to Pugh about a return and a position switch to center. He's light for a RT and not enough of a bull at OG but if he moved to the pivot, I think we'd have a great start to rebuilding the OL. He's big for a center, he won't take as much punishment and he's a bright player who I think could easily anchor the OL as a center.
The idea makes sense from a football standpoint, but someone is probably going to be wiling to pay him like a OT and my guess is that it'll be beyond what we're willing to.
I think he's gone.
Is signing Norwell the key to our draft flexibility?
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
SF has $70M in cap space. They can outbid Gmen if they choose
They can, but unless they want to blow the current benchmark for $ on a guard out of the water the money is going to be the same as the Giants can offer. It'll come down to where he wants to sign.
Does that mean they have soured in OJ Howard? Maybe we dodged a bullet there. I for one was clamoring for him last April and when he started to fall, I really thought we were going to trade up and get him. He was definitely the most polished TE going into the draft last year.
I don't think so. They use both players on the field at the same time frequently. Brate is more commonly used as the receiving TE, however, with Howard used more often as a blocker. Which is odd to me given Howard's exceptional speed.
Considering that TE's like Rhett Ellison can be had for half the cost, looks like Giants did the right thing going for Engram
Maybe thats the case, but they used their first round pick on him last year to be a blocking TE? Looking at OJs stats he did have 6 TDs on only 26 receptions. They just backed up the brinx truck for Evans.
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
If Norwell is as good as people on here seem to believe, then I can't imagine we don't get outbid for him by some team with much more cap flexibility than we have. So, I am planning on this not happening, but who knows.
The Giants don't typically engage in bidding wars, but the highest paid guard in the league is something like ~$14m against the cap annually (That's base + bonuses, not base salary). It's affordable. Unless a team wants to wildly reshape the market for Guards and start offering them midlevel QB money I wouldn't worry too much about getting outbid.
It's more about what situation he likes better.
RE: Is signing Norwell the key to our draft flexibility?
Maybe thats the case, but they used their first round pick on him last year to be a blocking TE? Looking at OJs stats he did have 6 TDs on only 26 receptions. They just backed up the brinx truck for Evans.
And they use both players. It's not a referendum on Howard at this point. You shouldn't judge any player off of one year, particularly their rookie year. With how they use Brate (slot and outside at times), there is room for both players to thrive in that offense.
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
SF has $70M in cap space. They can outbid Gmen if they choose
They can, but unless they want to blow the current benchmark for $ on a guard out of the water the money is going to be the same as the Giants can offer. It'll come down to where he wants to sign.
What, are you going to follow me around and debate each of my post today? Simple economics, there are limited number of quality FA OL this year, and a number of teams with a lot of cap space. Someone will outbid the Giants if they want him bad enough. We saw the same in each of the last two seasons with FA OL. But once again, thank you for sharing.
Jordan Raanan
Verified account @JordanRaanan
2m2 minutes ago
Giants focus at the start of free agency is on Panthers guard Andrew Norwell, per source. They're optimistic about their chances of landing the All Pro guard. It will not be cheap though.
Jordan Raanan
Verified account @JordanRaanan
2m2 minutes ago
Giants focus at the start of free agency is on Panthers guard Andrew Norwell, per source. They're optimistic about their chances of landing the All Pro guard. It will not be cheap though.
Good. Top player, young, productive, huge position of need. Makes too much sense.
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
SF has $70M in cap space. They can outbid Gmen if they choose
They can, but unless they want to blow the current benchmark for $ on a guard out of the water the money is going to be the same as the Giants can offer. It'll come down to where he wants to sign.
What, are you going to follow me around and debate each of my post today? Simple economics, there are limited number of quality FA OL this year, and a number of teams with a lot of cap space. Someone will outbid the Giants if they want him bad enough. We saw the same in each of the last two seasons with FA OL. But once again, thank you for sharing.
I'm really not tracking who I'm responding to with every post. Short of a wild overpay that stuns the league, there are realistic expectations of what a top Guard gets on the market.
It's not going to be a massive jump from what we've seen over the past few years. We're seeing interior offensive linemen be paid more over the past few seasons and I'm sure they're keenly aware of that when they made their plan. It's probably why the previous GM chose not to pursue top linemen.
So, again, barring a team doing something shocking and stupid, the Giants likely expect that they'll have to make Norwell this year's highest-paid linemen in order to sign him. You can usually make a guess of what it'll cose based on the structure of the last guy who was paid the most.
Right now it's Kevin Zeitler, who signed for 5/60, with an annual cap hit average of $12m.
The year before, Osemele signed a deal that averaged $11.7.
If Norwell signs a deal that averages anywhere near 15-16m, it would be a massive shock.
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
SF has $70M in cap space. They can outbid Gmen if they choose
They can, but unless they want to blow the current benchmark for $ on a guard out of the water the money is going to be the same as the Giants can offer. It'll come down to where he wants to sign.
What, are you going to follow me around and debate each of my post today? Simple economics, there are limited number of quality FA OL this year, and a number of teams with a lot of cap space. Someone will outbid the Giants if they want him bad enough. We saw the same in each of the last two seasons with FA OL. But once again, thank you for sharing.
Ha, considering you responded to me first on the other thread this would be exactly one thread I responded to you. Hardly following you. And not coincidentally, they were both about the salary cap which I'm particularly interested in.
What does outbid mean to you in terms of actual $? In other words, if the Giants are willing to play at the 5/65mm range - what do you think SF would have to offer to outbid the Giants to the point where the Giants couldn't match due to the cap?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I read this as Norwell camp
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
SF has $70M in cap space. They can outbid Gmen if they choose
They can, but unless they want to blow the current benchmark for $ on a guard out of the water the money is going to be the same as the Giants can offer. It'll come down to where he wants to sign.
What, are you going to follow me around and debate each of my post today? Simple economics, there are limited number of quality FA OL this year, and a number of teams with a lot of cap space. Someone will outbid the Giants if they want him bad enough. We saw the same in each of the last two seasons with FA OL. But once again, thank you for sharing.
Ha, considering you responded to me first on the other thread this would be exactly one thread I responded to you. Hardly following you. And not coincidentally, they were both about the salary cap which I'm particularly interested in.
What does outbid mean to you in terms of actual $? In other words, if the Giants are willing to play at the 5/65mm range - what do you think SF would have to offer to outbid the Giants to the point where the Giants couldn't match due to the cap?
I have no idea where DG will draw the line, as this is the Giants first off-season with him at the helm. The old regime seem to resist grossly overpaying for O-lineman and consequently was only able to sign Fluker in recent seasons, even though the team was in great need on the OL.
We'd talk to Pugh about a return and a position switch to center. He's light for a RT and not enough of a bull at OG but if he moved to the pivot, I think we'd have a great start to rebuilding the OL. He's big for a center, he won't take as much punishment and he's a bright player who I think could easily anchor the OL as a center.
The only problem with that is with his short arms he might not be physically capable of moving the ball from the ground to his taint. He might continually snap the ball directly in his nuts.
The only problem with that is with his short arms he might not be physically capable of moving the ball from the ground to his taint. He might continually snap the ball directly in his nuts.
I truly wasn't expecting a comment like this. Way to win the Monday. Hilarious.
Am I off base for thinking that's outrageous and a terrible move for Cincinnati?
The terrible move is letting their All-Pro LT Whitworth walk away. They thought the young depth was ready to take over. Now, they have to double down on the mistake and get Glenn.
Matt Maiocco (@MaioccoNBCS)
3/12/18, 4:51 PM
In keeping with their advertised prudent approach, I dont envision the #49ers extending too far for free-agent guard Andrew Norwell. He is considered the top guy at that spot on the open market and can be expected to become the highest-paid guard in the league.
reaching out to Drew Brees. That would be interesting.
Correction it was the Viikings.
Cardinals and any other team that needs a QB should be calling Condon. If a team is prepared to back up the Brinks truck for Cousins, those same teams should be doing the same to Brees. Perhaps the length of the contract terms won't be the same, but the yearly salary should be. Brees is a first-ballot HOF'er. It is the Saints fault for letting it get to this point. Now, they should have to compete for Brees services on the open market the same as any other team. Brees playing pitch and catch with Larry Fitz with David Johnson toting the rock? -Yes, Please.
Kent Somers (@kentsomers)
3/12/18, 5:00 PM
Cardinals have interest in G Andrew Norwell but not at an exorbitant number. And someone is likely to give him something exorbitant.
Matt Maiocco (@MaioccoNBCS)
3/12/18, 4:51 PM
In keeping with their advertised prudent approach, I dont envision the #49ers extending too far for free-agent guard Andrew Norwell. He is considered the top guy at that spot on the open market and can be expected to become the highest-paid guard in the league.
I find this hard to believe after trading for and signing Jimmy G, extending Goodwin, signing Sherman, etc.
HORRIBLE trade by Cincy IMO. The price for trading up in round 1, especially to the 12th pick from the 20's, is usually an additional 1st rounder(Houston, KC last year). They got an overpriced 29 year old OT who is slightly above average with injury concerns. They should have gotten both picks 21 and 22 IMO.
Maybe, but Cincy has a starting LT AND the 23rd (or 24th)
Are positioning themselves to possibly trade up for a QB. Dropping from 12 into the top 10 is much more palatable than dropping from the 20's.
How about the Giants trade the 2 to Buffalo for picks 12, 22, 53 and 55?
I'm going to need more than that. Perhaps, 12, 22, 53, 55 + Peterman + a Day 2 pick next year. And that is only if the NYG powers that be are sold on the notion that Webb is a solid QB prospect w/ Peterman as a viable backup (or the reverse I suppose).
HORRIBLE trade by Cincy IMO. The price for trading up in round 1, especially to the 12th pick from the 20's, is usually an additional 1st rounder(Houston, KC last year). They got an overpriced 29 year old OT who is slightly above average with injury concerns. They should have gotten both picks 21 and 22 IMO.
Agreed. As someone said, the mistake was letting Whitworth go. This just compounds that mistake. It looks desperate. But it does get Buffalo a lot closer to one of the "big three" QBs.
Are positioning themselves to possibly trade up for a QB. Dropping from 12 into the top 10 is much more palatable than dropping from the 20's.
How about the Giants trade the 2 to Buffalo for picks 12, 22, 53 and 55?
I'm going to need more than that. Perhaps, 12, 22, 53, 55 + Peterman + a Day 2 pick next year. And that is only if the NYG powers that be are sold on the notion that Webb is a solid QB prospect w/ Peterman as a viable backup (or the reverse I suppose).
Your proposed trade is more than the Giants sent for Eli Manning.
I'd consider it an upset if they didn't. They shipped their starting QB off and opted to move up in the first instead of acquiring an extra 2nd from the Bengals. The Giants will have options at the second pick.
We'd talk to Pugh about a return and a position switch to center. He's light for a RT and not enough of a bull at OG but if he moved to the pivot, I think we'd have a great start to rebuilding the OL. He's big for a center, he won't take as much punishment and he's a bright player who I think could easily anchor the OL as a center.
I remember that he took snaps at C in Senior Bowl practice and told the Sirius guys he was comfortable with it. Always wondered since he's the 'versatility guy' that he never worked there for NYG.
Are positioning themselves to possibly trade up for a QB. Dropping from 12 into the top 10 is much more palatable than dropping from the 20's.
How about the Giants trade the 2 to Buffalo for picks 12, 22, 53 and 55?
I'm going to need more than that. Perhaps, 12, 22, 53, 55 + Peterman + a Day 2 pick next year. And that is only if the NYG powers that be are sold on the notion that Webb is a solid QB prospect w/ Peterman as a viable backup (or the reverse I suppose).
Your proposed trade is more than the Giants sent for Eli Manning.
And? They'd be trading from #12 to #2. Not #4 to #1. And presumably they're not taking a player who doesn't want to go to the Giants. There's no way they can get away with just trading their two present 1s to get in the top 2.
reaching out to Drew Brees. That would be interesting.
Correction it was the Viikings.
Mentioned on the previous thread that Broncos' fans are on the alert on this. Brees has the same agent (Tom Condon) as Peyton Manning, and Elway knows Condon very well.
Would have thought the Saints' would have a solid gentleman's agreement in place but, if not, Cousins has some competition.
I'd take Guice, Vander Esch, and potentially have a top 10 pick next year.
I think you still need a 2nd rounder this year to do the deal.
On the points scale, yes the 12th, 22nd, and next year's first works, but I still need another pick this year to give up #2 and potentially the top QB in this draft.
I'd take Guice, Vander Esch, and potentially have a top 10 pick next year.
I think you still need a 2nd rounder this year to do the deal.
On the points scale, yes the 12th, 22nd, and next year's first works, but I still need another pick this year to give up #2 and potentially the top QB in this draft.
I agree. I almost included their second 2, but I was being conservative because I tend to get a bit excited about trade down potential. I think we're in a position of enormous strength right now. Especially for a team like the Bills looking to sneak into the top...
Are positioning themselves to possibly trade up for a QB. Dropping from 12 into the top 10 is much more palatable than dropping from the 20's.
How about the Giants trade the 2 to Buffalo for picks 12, 22, 53 and 55?
I'm going to need more than that. Perhaps, 12, 22, 53, 55 + Peterman + a Day 2 pick next year. And that is only if the NYG powers that be are sold on the notion that Webb is a solid QB prospect w/ Peterman as a viable backup (or the reverse I suppose).
Your proposed trade is more than the Giants sent for Eli Manning.
No its not. Key aspect of my trade as oppose to the Eli trade is that this trade takes NYG out of the QB picture in terms of replacing Eli. Its not like we're moving to 4. We're moving to 12.
I'd take Guice, Vander Esch, and potentially have a top 10 pick next year.
I think you still need a 2nd rounder this year to do the deal.
On the points scale, yes the 12th, 22nd, and next year's first works, but I still need another pick this year to give up #2 and potentially the top QB in this draft.
I agree. I almost included their second 2, but I was being conservative because I tend to get a bit excited about trade down potential. I think we're in a position of enormous strength right now. Especially for a team like the Bills looking to sneak into the top...
Not just the Bills. There are two or three teams between the Giants and Bills picks that want a QB and don't want to be leaped-frogged.
Someone could offer that King's ransom to the Giants
Believing that Buffalo could make that same move if they don't.. Denver and Jets have to be fearful of the Bills jumping them now. I can almost guarentee someone moves up to get one of NY's pick at 2, Indy's pick at 3 or Cleveland's pick at 4.
Bills are now 12. Probably want to get into top 11 to get get one of top 4 QBs. I think 12 is too far for #Giants to trade down
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
If they can do something to get to 6th (Jets pick)
Bills are now 12. Probably want to get into top 11 to get get one of top 4 QBs. I think 12 is too far for #Giants to trade down
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Im sorry. This is a Ryan Dunleavy tweet in response to Schefter
Bills are now 12. Probably want to get into top 11 to get get one of top 4 QBs. I think 12 is too far for #Giants to trade down
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Good, and it should be. No way should we move all the way to 12. Not when we have chance to grab once in lifetime player.
If Dave G fails in free agency, I won't be confident at all in what he is going to do in the draft with the 2nd pick. In other words, he better get his guy Norwell or it may end up the first of many mistakes this fucking guy makes. Get it done Gettlemen.
If Dave G fails in free agency, I won't be confident at all in what he is going to do in the draft with the 2nd pick. In other words, he better get his guy Norwell or it may end up the first of many mistakes this fucking guy makes. Get it done Gettlemen.
That seems ridiculous to me. There are teams with a huge monetary advantage over us w/re to the cap. If they bid some exorbitant amount for Norwell We might not want or be able to match that.
I'd be disappointed, as Norwell is an important get for us, but I'm not gonna give up on DG or our future with him over one deal he couldn't land when we weren't competing on even terms.
If Norwell if just too expesive, Spain is a guy I would take here in a heartbeat. TEN may not be able to throw more money in to that OL, and this guy has been a top 6 OG in the NFL the past 2 years. I have some agent-contacts and they all think he is going to be a RFA.
TEN will have the right to match the offer, but they have to allocate money elsewhere.
If Dave G fails in free agency, I won't be confident at all in what he is going to do in the draft with the 2nd pick. In other words, he better get his guy Norwell or it may end up the first of many mistakes this fucking guy makes. Get it done Gettlemen.
That's a bit ridiculous. The Giants don't have a lot of cap room to work with this year as DG walked into a less than ideal situation. He is still working on signing the best available FA offensive linemen but he is competing with teams with much more cap room.
Down to 12 in a draft thats top heavy with possibly 6 studs who will all be gone by then. No fucking thanks
Yeah, but we can have two 1st round picks instead of 1. Who needs a stud player as long as you have a bunch of picks. Did Brown's real well when they did it.
Down to 12 in a draft thats top heavy with possibly 6 studs who will all be gone by then. No fucking thanks
Yeah, but we can have two 1st round picks instead of 1. Who needs a stud player as long as you have a bunch of picks. Did Brown's real well when they did it.
Really? Last time I checked, the Browns have 1 win in 2 years. Real successful...
Down to 12 in a draft thats top heavy with possibly 6 studs who will all be gone by then. No fucking thanks
Yeah, but we can have two 1st round picks instead of 1. Who needs a stud player as long as you have a bunch of picks. Did Brown's real well when they did it.
Really? Last time I checked, the Browns have 1 win in 2 years. Real successful...
Lol. I was kidding if you couldn't tell. I do not want to move anywhere. Only argument should be is If we pick a qb or Barkley, not on how far we should move. Stay where we are.
The Texans are rumored to be close with former Chiefs guard Zach Fulton. The deal reportedly is in the 7 million per season range. Fulton is a guy I wanted the Giants to sign but at that price no thanks. I assume that Chris Hubbard will get at least that much now if true.
Because acculmiating picks is the cool thing to do
But this team lacks blue chip talent. As I said yesterday, if Eli was 5 years younger then I move down and get more picks but at this time it would be a real shame If we can't come away with our qb of future.
We don't pick #2 often. Stay there and try to grab your next qb for 10 years. Don't get cute or in two years we will be in same position as bills are today.
RE: Because acculmiating picks is the cool thing to do
But this team lacks blue chip talent. As I said yesterday, if Eli was 5 years younger then I move down and get more picks but at this time it would be a real shame If we can't come away with our qb of future.
We don't pick #2 often. Stay there and try to grab your next qb for 10 years. Don't get cute or in two years we will be in same position as bills are today.
Agreed, the Browns have accumulated picks over the past few years and that hasn't worked out well for them. This team is in position to get it's next franchise QB without giving up multiple assets to move up in the draft as they did with Eli.
But it requires you to believe that this team is a few rookies away from mattering, and that Eli, who will finish the 2018 season at age 38, has enough years and ability left that it's worth dealing with another 3 win season that they'll have to have to get their next QB.
Has today been BORING. I didnt expect 10 signings throughout the NFL but we usually hear about 2-3 that are essentially done deals across the league. A real Debbie downer today.
Has today been BORING. I didnt expect 10 signings throughout the NFL but we usually hear about 2-3 that are essentially done deals across the league. A real Debbie downer today.
There's a lot of teams with money. It makes things drag out longer.
That makes sense. I didnt think a Kirk or Norwell would be signed. I more or less expected a Trumaine Johnson, Allen Robinson types to be close to deals.
Has today been BORING. I didnt expect 10 signings throughout the NFL but we usually hear about 2-3 that are essentially done deals across the league. A real Debbie downer today.
There's a lot of teams with money. It makes things drag out longer.
Well that, and the fact that FA doesn't start until Weds. Today only start the "legal tampering" window.
I think it is possible that the Bills try and move their 12th pick into the top ten before they go after the Giants, Colts or Broncos picks. I am not crazy about going down to 12, but if we could have two first round picks and a whole other windfall, I would feel better at a 7,8,9 with the potential players available.
That all being said, I want Barkley after watching his clips. I used to watch any Lion game I could just to see Barry Sanders. I loved Tiki's great years from a pure entertainment standpoint. If we can fix the oline and have Beckham, Barkly, Engram, that may just amazingly fun to watch.
If Dave G fails in free agency, I won't be confident at all in what he is going to do in the draft with the 2nd pick. In other words, he better get his guy Norwell or it may end up the first of many mistakes this fucking guy makes. Get it done Gettlemen.
+1..
Reese left this franchise in as poor a situation as the good situation EA left for him.
Poor/very poor draft selections in general...devoid of talent across the OL and LB...expensive FA contracts due to poor drafting and therefore somewhat cap strapped in a poor FA market with few standouts at positions of need and with our competition in better position to outbid us...and only 5 picks.
This is not a 1 draft...2 draft fix...and our 1 of likely 2 marketable commodities (jackrabbit the other) is a headcase in maybe alittle trouble and even if innocent is a sell low commodity right now.
Norwell is a dream that maybe comes true...but if not maybe that 13/14M can yield 2-3 position players> what we have.
DG is a GM...not a miracle worker....Stay calm.
That's a bit ridiculous. The Giants don't have a lot of cap room to work with this year as DG walked into a less than ideal situation. He is still working on signing the best available FA offensive linemen but he is competing with teams with much more cap room.
Strong chance that McGlinchey is a RT in the NFL, so that's not necessarily relevant.
I strongly disagree. McGlinchey has very good feet and I expect he will be a good LT in the NFL. I think he can play both, and he may start on the right side, but eventually he'll make his career as a LT. Really good player. Best OT I've studied in this draft so far.
Giants are on to plan B on the oline. They have to fix that unit, especially if Eli is the starter this year.
I know this position is not popular with everyone here. But maybe you pursue Solder, sign Sitton, and draft OL in round one. Denver is less desperate than they were yesterday and dont have to move up. Still might. But you can draft Nelson at 2 or trade with the Jets or even Buffalo and still get McGlichney. I wouldnt rule out trading with Buffalo. The boat load of picks would help fix this team for the long haul without stressing the cap.
Is a great grab for KC. Wonder what the numbers look like.
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Final terms of the #Chiefs expected deal for WR Sammy Watkins: 3 years, $48M with $30M fully guaranteed at signing, sources say.
Giants are on to plan B on the oline. They have to fix that unit, especially if Eli is the starter this year.
I know this position is not popular with everyone here. But maybe you pursue Solder, sign Sitton, and draft OL in round one. Denver is less desperate than they were yesterday and dont have to move up. Still might. But you can draft Nelson at 2 or trade with the Jets or even Buffalo and still get McGlichney. I wouldnt rule out trading with Buffalo. The boat load of picks would help fix this team for the long haul without stressing the cap.
I wanted Norwell here so we could have a proven OL piece to build around. But in the end, there are good Guards in free agency like Sitton maybe Jensen. The best thing about Norwell was he was entering him prime years. I have hope DG will find some pieces and maybe since we didn't spend so much on one player.
It's probably time to stop parroting outdated axioms
We are a 3-13 team with a 37 year old qb. I love Eli, but trying to rebuild for him with an overpaid guard and a drafting Barkley is stupid. It is time to go out there and draft a new qb and rebuild the line over the next year or two with successsful draft picks. Hopefully, this puts to bed any thoughts of a quick rebuild.
That this will prevent us from going QB round 1. We have no linemen. I was all aboard the Qb train. So for those looking to pass on Qb, what is the plan for our future there?
Pissed off that Reese left our line like this. We had the perfect opportunity to setup one qb to another like 49ers, packers, colts. Doesn't happen often and now we're fucked from doing that.
We are a 3-13 team with a 37 year old qb. I love Eli, but trying to rebuild for him with an overpaid guard and a drafting Barkley is stupid. It is time to go out there and draft a new qb and rebuild the line over the next year or two with successsful draft picks. Hopefully, this puts to bed any thoughts of a quick rebuild.
That this will prevent us from going QB round 1. We have no linemen. I was all aboard the Qb train. So for those looking to pass on Qb, what is the plan for our future there?
Pissed off that Reese left our line like this. We had the perfect opportunity to setup one qb to another like 49ers, packers, colts. Doesn't happen often and now we're fucked from doing that.
They can still very easily take a QB at 2 with or without Norwell. Its not like he was going to single handedly revamp the play of the entire unit. Secure the QB, then worry about whos going to block for him especially since Eli will be starting in 2018 and technically could also be in 2019
DG didn't overpay for Norwell. Instead of getting stuck in major contracts, focus on picking up players with good value.
JPP and Vernon come to mind.
Those two contracts are very different from signing a 26 year old all pro to a long term deal.
Signing JPP to a long term deal coming off that injury was the questionable move. Paying Vernon on potential and projecting his future years on advanced metric stats was the gamble.
of Case Keenum an indictment of the QB's in this draft? Or just a desire to not go into a rebuild?
They have to insulate themselves against the chance of not getting a QB.
The year Seattle got Russell Wilson was the same year they threw a ton of money at a free agent QB from Green Bay.
RE: RE: This is going to be unfair to say but fuck it
If Dave G fails in free agency, I won't be confident at all in what he is going to do in the draft with the 2nd pick. In other words, he better get his guy Norwell or it may end up the first of many mistakes this fucking guy makes. Get it done Gettlemen.
Yeah, it's Gettlemen's fault that NJ has ridiculous income tax rates and cost of living.
Norwell's take home pay will be over 1 million dollars higher for the same salary if he goes to Jax vs. NJ. Plus he can live in a beautiful mansion on the beach about 20 minutes from the stadium and be set for life. And there's the weather. It will be upper 60s today in Jax..
I guess that's all Gettlemen's fault.
Living in a more expensive state is something the Giants
have always had to deal with when trying to get players. It's never been used an excuse before.
Just because it's never been used doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And maybe you didn't notice the other factors I mentioned. Maybe a beautiful mansion on the beach 20 minutes from work and nicer weather doesn't sound good to you..
Also, when they say it's not about the money, it's about the money. Over 6 million dollars difference in take home pay over 5 years and lower cost of housing and living isn't insignificant.
RE: Living in a more expensive state is something the Giants
have always had to deal with when trying to get players. It's never been used an excuse before.
Just because it's never been used doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And maybe you didn't notice the other factors I mentioned. Maybe a beautiful mansion on the beach 20 minutes from work and nicer weather doesn't sound good to you..
Also, when they say it's not about the money, it's about the money. Over 6 million dollars difference in take home pay over 5 years and lower cost of housing and living isn't insignificant.
Of course the issue exists, they've probably had to pay a guy a bit more to be competitive with states that allow players to keep more of what they earn.
If the team wanted a player, that shouldn't be any kind of barrier to a deal. My point is that that problem shouldn't catch them by surprise.
of course it won't catch them by surprise, but even if you just consider the money, we would have to pay 14.5 million per year to be competitive with 13.3. How much outrage would there be if we did that?
Then you add the other factors and it's a hard sell. Coughlin knows firsthand of how a beautiful mansion on the beach and nice weather can make a wife happy. He never sold his mansion after being fired by Jax years ago. Happy wife, happy life.
I don't know if Norwell's married, but who wouldn't want a mansion on the beach 20 min from work?
we draft the qb, let Eli play with this offensive line this year, and rebuild the offensive line in this draft and next year's draft and the pass the reigns to the new qb. It is an ugly way to treat Eli, a player that I idolize, but this is a business. Whoever thought paying 15 million for a freaking guard was the answer to a 3-13 team should have their head reexamined. We were an awful football team and would have been whether Odell was injured or not. We might have had 5 wins instead of three. Our roster needs a total overhaul except at the DL and WR/TE positions +Jenkins and Collins. If you can't accept that or we hired a 67 year old GM who wants to win now than shame on you and shame on us. There is a right way to do things and a wrong way, I pray we don't chose the wrong way.
for giving Cousins that massive deal. The only thing I can think of for doing it is the taxes. They had to overpay to get him at a normal rate post tax.
people are not going to come here with similar offers from better teams. We were bad last year and will be bad this year coming up, we just got to build through the draft and add the pieces in FA when that foundation is built and we have money to spend. I think people tended to overrate our situation. Draft a franchise QB and get the ball rolling on our rebuild.
RE: When you are 3-13 without a ton of money to spend
people are not going to come here with similar offers from better teams. We were bad last year and will be bad this year coming up, we just got to build through the draft and add the pieces in FA when that foundation is built and we have money to spend. I think people tended to overrate our situation. Draft a franchise QB and get the ball rolling on our rebuild.
If we are going to be bad next year there is no reason to start a 37 year old QB.
people are not going to come here with similar offers from better teams. We were bad last year and will be bad this year coming up, we just got to build through the draft and add the pieces in FA when that foundation is built and we have money to spend. I think people tended to overrate our situation. Draft a franchise QB and get the ball rolling on our rebuild.
If we are going to be bad next year there is no reason to start a 37 year old QB.
We see interest in soldier but its going to get pricey fast.
I also like the the kid Fulton from kc- solid player on the line
I like Fulton too but yesterday it was reported that the Texans were interested in him and we willing to pay him 7 million per season which is way too much. I hope they can come away with Hubbard, John Sullivan, and perhaps Jack Mewhort on a contract with an option after year one.
Intention is not to rebuild. Lets see how free agency and the draft play out before making any declarations
If ownership's intention is not to rebuild, than I don't need to see how FA and the draft play out, I know my answer--this will be a colossal failure. We have had losing season 4 of the last 5 years and were 3-13 last year. This has not been a successful franchise and we are not 2-4 players away from competing. We have no depth, we have no OL, we had the 31st ranked defense last year, we lack really a safety and a CB, and we have a QB who is 37. If ownership this is something that can be fixed by FA and the draft we are in a whole heep of trouble.
20 million isn't enough cap space to compete with some teams for the top name Free Agents. Too many holes to fill to throw big money at a couple of positions. When Kennard is getting 6 mil per, you know things are pricey.
RE: Ownership is the most clueless I've seen since before George Young
20 million isn't enough cap space to compete with some teams for the top name Free Agents. Too many holes to fill to throw big money at a couple of positions. When Kennard is getting 6 mil per, you know things are pricey.
6 million per doesn't mean 6 million against the cap
Drew Brees gets $25/million/year and with $20 million guaranteed over two years and freekin Kirk Cousins gets $28 million fully guaranteed for three years
Drew Brees gets $25/million/year and with $20 million guaranteed over two years and freekin Kirk Cousins gets $28 million fully guaranteed for three years
Minnesota just got farther away from the Super Bowl.
How did they get farther? They upgraded at quarterback and everyone is coming back from last year
"Everyone is coming back from last year" is not how the NFL works.
Cousins is a JAG, and the Vikings just went from a position of power at QB (Bradford, Bridgewater, Keenum for $22M combined and no commitment beyond 2017) to putting all their eggs in the basket of a guy that couldn't beat the Giants (with nothing to play for) at home to make the playoffs in 2016.
You aren't winning shit with Cousins as your quarterback, and you certainly aren't winning anything with him for $84 million in guaranteed money.
They've opened up Pandora's box with Cousins' signing
Drew Brees gets $25/million/year and with $20 million guaranteed over two years and freekin Kirk Cousins gets $28 million fully guaranteed for three years
it boggles the mind
well one is 29 the other is 39
RE: They've opened up Pandora's box with Cousins' signing
Josh Kline, G - This is the guy I really want. I think he's a better scheme fit in a ZBS and he's a great pass protector.
Cameron Flemming, OT - Hasn't played a ton for the Pats, but he's been very solid when he's played.
Sentrel Henderson, OT - Dealing with some health issues, but he could be a legitimate starter in this league.
John Sullivan, C - Has experience in Shurmur's scheme
Joe Berger, C - Same story
Drew Brees gets $25/million/year and with $20 million guaranteed over two years and freekin Kirk Cousins gets $28 million fully guaranteed for three years
it boggles the mind
well one is 29 the other is 39
Shouldn't matter how old they are. I think the point is just that its crazy to think that an average QB like Kirk Cousins can make more per season than a hall of fame QB like Drew Brees who can still play better than him.
Drew Brees gets $25/million/year and with $20 million guaranteed over two years and freekin Kirk Cousins gets $28 million fully guaranteed for three years
it boggles the mind
well one is 29 the other is 39
Shouldn't matter how old they are. I think the point is just that its crazy to think that an average QB like Kirk Cousins can make more per season than a hall of fame QB like Drew Brees who can still play better than him.
Im not sure thats true, plus if all goes well kirk can be their qb for 8+ years
Minnesota just got farther away from the Super Bowl.
How did they get farther? They upgraded at quarterback and everyone is coming back from last year
"Everyone is coming back from last year" is not how the NFL works.
Cousins is a JAG, and the Vikings just went from a position of power at QB (Bradford, Bridgewater, Keenum for $22M combined and no commitment beyond 2017) to putting all their eggs in the basket of a guy that couldn't beat the Giants (with nothing to play for) at home to make the playoffs in 2016.
You aren't winning shit with Cousins as your quarterback, and you certainly aren't winning anything with him for $84 million in guaranteed money.
Completely agree. Shouldn't we know after going 11-5 to 3-13 with essentially the same roster that returning everyone doesn't mean a whole lot? The breaks the Vikings got could completely disappear, injuries can and will set in, their coaching staff turnover, etc. Its hard to stay good in this league.
I'm betting on them regressing and being more beatable this year, while tying up a big sum of money in a QB who's already reached his ceiling.
RE: RE: Ownership is the most clueless I've seen since before George Young
Clueless owners don't win 2 super bowls in 4 years
What have the Giants done or not done this offseason yet? I think they are playing it perfectly. Don't overspend. We are in a partial rebuild, no reason to overpay to fill a hole when you have so many to fill. I'd rather spend on the cheap and get bargains and then build through the draft. The draft was incredibly bad the past 5 years. You cannot expect DG to just come in and clean it all up in a matter of months. They have absolutely no depth and not a lot of young talent with limited FA money.
Intent may not be to hit the reset button on a full rebuild, and with current roster composition they might have no choice but to plug holes, hit the draft, and play the 2018 season.
Full reset, rebuild from scratch isn't happening now.
But, to expect to plug holes and make a run behind Eli does not compute any longer, that's sentimentality given the Eli I've watched the past three seasons along with the current roster with some upgrades.
@PSchrags
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An interesting note on the Sammy Watkins/Chiefs deal is that the Cowboys were reportedly interested and in the hunt for Watkins, too. What's that mean for their WR corps? And their WR1?
"The less versatile you are, the better you have to be at what you do well."
The Vikings are an excellent illustration of this. Last year they were extremely versatile in that they had three options at quarterback. Bradford started the year and played well but got hurt. Keenum took over knowing that Bridgewater was there to take his job should he falter. They were versatile and because all of their contracts expired after the season were uncommitted to any of them. It worked out well and even allowed them to recover from a QB injury...something that is often fatal to a team's season.
Now they have no versatility at quarterback. They are tied to Cousins for three years. The Vikings HAVE to be good with Cousins; there is no plan B.
They were a better team at the start of 2017 than they are today.
5 year 40 mil for Richardson? Why that is an over pay
It's a lot, but there is real talent there. They are paying him for expected performance, not past performance. He's a legit deep threat for them. I wouldn't have written that check, though.
RE: RE: RE: Ownership is the most clueless I've seen since before George Young
Clueless owners don't win 2 super bowls in 4 years
What have the Giants done or not done this offseason yet? I think they are playing it perfectly. Don't overspend. We are in a partial rebuild, no reason to overpay to fill a hole when you have so many to fill. I'd rather spend on the cheap and get bargains and then build through the draft. The draft was incredibly bad the past 5 years. You cannot expect DG to just come in and clean it all up in a matter of months. They have absolutely no depth and not a lot of young talent with limited FA money.
I'm not criticizing DG. I like him and as I said earlier I hope he has a lot of George Young in him because rigth now that's what they need: someone who will tell Mara/Tisch to butt out unless it concerns $$ for contracts. I'm criticizing the poor, indecisive, patchwork, half assed measures from ownership the lead to this mess. 1st the DefCo, then the Off Co, then the Head COach but not the staff, then finally Reese and Mcadoo and most of the staff after 8 shit drafts in a row, 1 playoff blowout loss in 6 years.
Can the Vikes afford anything more than a Rookie/Young QB
5 year 40 mil for Richardson? Why that is an over pay
It's a lot, but there is real talent there. They are paying him for expected performance, not past performance. He's a legit deep threat for them. I wouldn't have written that check, though.
That is insane amount of dollars for an unproven WR. He does have talent, but man $8M per year. Have to think there is better value to be had.
"The less versatile you are, the better you have to be at what you do well."
The Vikings are an excellent illustration of this. Last year they were extremely versatile in that they had three options at quarterback. Bradford started the year and played well but got hurt. Keenum took over knowing that Bridgewater was there to take his job should he falter. They were versatile and because all of their contracts expired after the season were uncommitted to any of them. It worked out well and even allowed them to recover from a QB injury...something that is often fatal to a team's season.
Now they have no versatility at quarterback. They are tied to Cousins for three years. The Vikings HAVE to be good with Cousins; there is no plan B.
They were a better team at the start of 2017 than they are today.
And Cousins has to be ALOT better than he is. They are going to regret this contract. It will soon be exhibit A in the "Why You Shouldn't Pay Premium $$ to Very Average Players" museum. This is Ryan Fitzpatrick II. Case Keenum will be Ryan Fitzpatrick III.
No the FO are sitting around twiddling their thumbs. JFC FA hasn't even officially begun yet and people are throwing fits because they lost out on Norwell. Maybe you should wait a couple of days before you panic.
5 year 40 mil for Richardson? Why that is an over pay
It's a lot, but there is real talent there. They are paying him for expected performance, not past performance. He's a legit deep threat for them. I wouldn't have written that check, though.
That is insane amount of dollars for an unproven WR. He does have talent, but man $8M per year. Have to think there is better value to be had.
It's a lot of money, but Richardson is a good fit for their offense. Also, it's a lot less money than Watkins got, a player who hasn't proved anything in this league. I'd rather have Richardson.
But Austin Howard graded out decently last year at RT for the Ravens and with the Ravens declining his option it is possible he may not be in the comp pick formula
The "Bargain Basement / Dumpster Diving" phase of FA hasn't started yet. Although, I get the feeling the Giants are positioning themselves to win that phase of FA.
I think that there is a plan to build this roster in a smart way.
DG has said numerous times that guys like O'Hara were building blocks to SB teams and not top rate FA's. Making the trade for Ogletree tells me he is conscious of the weaknesses. Letting Richburg walk, not having a deal in place for Pugh, tells me status quo wasn't going to continue. I'm cautiously optimistic.
Please is there anyone who felt WR Albert Wilson was worth 8 mil a year for three years? This guy has caught 124 passes in his career Landry caught 112 last year WTH am I missing here.
and who we were supposed to be front runners for is off the market. Now what? For me, Norwell was crucial to the Giants having any kind of success this year. He was far and away the best OL available.
RE: So, the one guy who seemed to be universally wanted here
and who we were supposed to be front runners for is off the market. Now what? For me, Norwell was crucial to the Giants having any kind of success this year. He was far and away the best OL available.
Yea i tend to agree. i hate to be all gloomy and shit but truth is he immediately gave us an anchor on that OL and was IMO a key piece to having some success this year. there arent many great options left along the OL and truth is OL play has been down around the league and at this point we will be signing back ups to start....i expect a really shitty season which may have happened if we signed norwell but norwell would have given some hope to moving in the right direction on the OL. nothing we can do tho. got outbid by a better team....easy choice for him.
"The less versatile you are, the better you have to be at what you do well."
The Vikings are an excellent illustration of this. Last year they were extremely versatile in that they had three options at quarterback. Bradford started the year and played well but got hurt. Keenum took over knowing that Bridgewater was there to take his job should he falter. They were versatile and because all of their contracts expired after the season were uncommitted to any of them. It worked out well and even allowed them to recover from a QB injury...something that is often fatal to a team's season.
Now they have no versatility at quarterback. They are tied to Cousins for three years. The Vikings HAVE to be good with Cousins; there is no plan B.
They were a better team at the start of 2017 than they are today.
That whole scenario came about only because of Bridgewater's horrible injury, and panicking into trading a first round pick for Bradford. I don't know that versatility at that position is a thing that can be replicated.
Rather than clearing cap space, Eagles would take a huge cap hit if Cox's dead cap were to be accelerated. Don't see any mention of him being in play at Bleeding Green.
At the right price.... A brawler! - ( New Window )
Isn't he a center
Yes, but interior OL in general. And it's not as if we know what Gettleman thinks of Brett Jones. He may see Jones as nothing more than a back up player.
Are they now out of the QB hunt in the draft? And what about the Skins, damn I hope they don't end up with Jackson. I would hate to face him twice per year.
I have seen enough about the players they wanted being potentially acquired elsewhere, and about the players the Giants have lost.
Will they pick up anyone in free agency? I'm used to them not getting what they need and I expected this free agency season to be better with DG in charge.....but so far......nothing!
Are they now out of the QB hunt in the draft? And what about the Skins, damn I hope they don't end up with Jackson. I would hate to face him twice per year.
I came on here to ask about Trumaine Johnson. There have been reports that the Gmen might look to free agency to fill a CB spot.
What would Johnson command and would he be a good fit??
I imagine Johnson would get Jenkins type money. He would be our biggest FA signing if he's the guy. I don't know if we would do that.
After I got thinking about it more, this was what I came up with as well. The Giants would have a lot of $$ tied up in the CB spot.
NO way he gets jenkins money IMO. i dont think he is that good. id take butler as he may be the cheaper option...maybe a discount after the Super Bowl debacle
ThE thing that is the most frustrating isnt the fact that we havent signed anyone yet, its more about us not being linked to anyone. Norwell and Dion Lewis, thats pretty much it. Oh and how can I forget J-Stew...lol Im not getting impatient, and I dont want them to spend big money on ehh players, I just want to see some connections. Oh well.
I am really high on Mahomes, think he will be the best young QB in the league next season. Now he has Hunt, Tyreek Hill, Watkins and Kelce. That offense is going to be explosive.
Fuller is a really good CB, so it is almost a wash with Peters when you factor in the distractions w/Peters, plus they get draft picks back. And they signed Hitchens who is an upgrade for their LB core.
ThE thing that is the most frustrating isnt the fact that we havent signed anyone yet, its more about us not being linked to anyone. Norwell and Dion Lewis, thats pretty much it. Oh and how can I forget J-Stew...lol Im not getting impatient, and I dont want them to spend big money on ehh players, I just want to see some connections. Oh well.
I really dislike the fact that the guys who they've been linked to are RB's. One guy is 28 coming off a career year, the other guy is 31 with a ton of mileage. Plus, I feel that you should never pay for a RB in FA. How many RB's outperform their 2nd contract? I'd rather address RB with a pair of fresh, healthy legs in the draft. RB's are always at their peak in the first 4 years of their career.
ThE thing that is the most frustrating isnt the fact that we havent signed anyone yet, its more about us not being linked to anyone. Norwell and Dion Lewis, thats pretty much it. Oh and how can I forget J-Stew...lol Im not getting impatient, and I dont want them to spend big money on ehh players, I just want to see some connections. Oh well.
I really dislike the fact that the guys who they've been linked to are RB's. One guy is 28 coming off a career year, the other guy is 31 with a ton of mileage. Plus, I feel that you should never pay for a RB in FA. How many RB's outperform their 2nd contract? I'd rather address RB with a pair of fresh, healthy legs in the draft. RB's are always at their peak in the first 4 years of their career.
We're not going to draft two RBs - presumably. We need to add depth to the position. I hope Perkins is our fourth RB going into 2018. We just lost two FA RBs in Vereen and Darkwa. We need to add at least one guy in FA either now of after the draft.
ThE thing that is the most frustrating isnt the fact that we havent signed anyone yet, its more about us not being linked to anyone. Norwell and Dion Lewis, thats pretty much it. Oh and how can I forget J-Stew...lol Im not getting impatient, and I dont want them to spend big money on ehh players, I just want to see some connections. Oh well.
I really dislike the fact that the guys who they've been linked to are RB's. One guy is 28 coming off a career year, the other guy is 31 with a ton of mileage. Plus, I feel that you should never pay for a RB in FA. How many RB's outperform their 2nd contract? I'd rather address RB with a pair of fresh, healthy legs in the draft. RB's are always at their peak in the first 4 years of their career.
We're not going to draft two RBs - presumably. We need to add depth to the position. I hope Perkins is our fourth RB going into 2018. We just lost two FA RBs in Vereen and Darkwa. We need to add at least one guy in FA either now of after the draft.
I think Lewis will get 5 OR 6 mil a year though. He's garnered a lot of interest so far. I don't like the idea of paying a guy that type of money. 28 years old, injury history, better in an RBBC.
If the price is crazy I don't know that we'll be in. You've lost faith in Gettleman so soon? Adding a RB in FA doesn't mean we're going to overpay for one.
Eagle fan sent me some tweets. I don't think they are asking for a lot either. It is to clear up cap space. Eagles just signed Haloti Ngata too..
An Eagles fan on twitter said Howie will trade Cox for a 3rd and 5th rounder and clear up cap space, and to that Cox responded "And I own (ocean) front property in Arizona"
1. The Giants actually won the Norwell sweepstakes. You don't pay a fucking guard 13 million a year. That's absolutely insane. The Jaguars can have him at that ludicrous price.
2. Just because the Chiefs overpaid Sammy Watkins, doesn't mean shit for Beckham. The best WR in football (Antonio Brown) is getting 17m a year. You can STILL expect Beckham in the 18m a year range.
3. Richburg and Kennard were both below average to average. They needed to leave. They were literally just bodies.
4. Today in free agency, for the Giants, will have no impact on what the Giants do with the 2nd pick. You all can talk yourself into whomever you want... Barkley, Nelson... Ect... I'd still bet my left nut the Giants select a QB. Odds are fantastic that NYG won't have a pick this high again in a long time.
5. You don't win championships by winning the 1st day of free agency. There are a shit ton of holes to fill... It's not a one year turn around. Strap in to this marathon.
You may lose that nut. Teams turn things around quickly all the time. The giants are trying to win now. Far from a given they go qb in round . 50/50 at best
ThE thing that is the most frustrating isnt the fact that we havent signed anyone yet, its more about us not being linked to anyone. Norwell and Dion Lewis, thats pretty much it. Oh and how can I forget J-Stew...lol Im not getting impatient, and I dont want them to spend big money on ehh players, I just want to see some connections. Oh well.
We're a 3-13 team with average cap space in the loaded NFC. Want to win types aren't drawn here, and cash in types aren't either. We'd want to sign with the Giants because we're fans, but there's not a lot of reason for the top free agents to. We'll be looking at 2nd and 3rd tier signings - but sometimes those are the best signings.
Tweets that our offer wasnt far off at all to a Norwell, he simply chose them over us....
THAT DOESNT MAKE US FEEL BETTER JORDAN!!!
Can you blame him?
He had the choice of going to a team ready to contend in a state with no income tax or he could have come here, to a terrible team in flux that needs to rebuild.
Easy call if it's me. I would have done the same thing.
Blame him one bit. Just would have rather told myself that DG was sticking to his guns and not wanting to pony up LT money to a LG. Instead we were just the 2nd (maybe 3rd option) (insert crying emoji)
1. The Giants actually won the Norwell sweepstakes. You don't pay a fucking guard 13 million a year. That's absolutely insane. The Jaguars can have him at that ludicrous price.
What about it is insane? Traditionally guards don't get paid a lot. Over the last few seasons, they do. Are you familiar at all with the top salaries at the position?
What about it is insane? Traditionally guards don't get paid a lot. Over the last few seasons, they do. Are you familiar at all with the top salaries at the position?
I wish DG had gone in and signed Norwell. It's not like the Giants don't have a ton of cap space coming free next year, and there are other moves that could be made (releasing Marshall) that could create more $$$ this year. Norwell is the best G on the market, and this line is desperate for an upgrade across the board. Reminds of years ago when Reese passed on re-signing a 24 year old, SB champion Linvale Joseph and thought it was better to spend that $$$ on older, less talented players like Cullen Jenkins and Mike Patterson. For those who claim $13M is too much for a G - is $15M too much for CB?
Bridgewater hasn't played in 2 seasons due to injury. They're not passing on a QB if they can get it done.
TTH, maybe...but I am not understanding the logic of Teddy B. McCown was having a solid season last year and if he is the bridge to one of the young guys (including a potential draft pick), why even take a one year flyer on Bridgewater?
even if they take a QB, that QB might benefit from sitting. Some need to.
Bridgewater and McCown can compete for the starting job. Bridgewater needs to show he can still play, so he gets the preseason game opportunity to show for the rest of the league, and there's no reason to just give Josh McCown a job with no competition. He's Josh McCown.
It is very likely that unless they trade up, they will see Darnold, Rosen, Allen all gone by 6. Theres potential Mayfield could go if the Colts decide to trade back. Theres rumors of a couple teams trying to move up ahead of the Jets.
The last full season Bridgewater played, he threw 14 TD passes in 16 games.
I like Teddy - but even before he was hurt, he was really just some flashes and a lot of mediocre.
I still think NYJ really need to take a QB - but they're going to have to immediately cut ties with Petty or Hackenberg (or both) - they're both awful. They obviously can't carry 5 QB's.
I still think NYJ really need to take a QB - but they're going to have to immediately cut ties with Petty or Hackenberg (or both) - they're both awful. They obviously can't carry 5 QB's.
I think they take Nelson or Fitzpatrick at 6, if they stay there. They could start their own Legion of Boom secondary with Johnson, Adams, and Maye or they can take perhaps the best player in the draft after Barkley. They have the $$$ and extra picks in rounds 2 and 3 to markedly improve.
Hackenberg ever even play? The Jets situation at QB is a prime example of why the Giants should draft a QB at 2.
Only in pre-season.
My guess is they've seen absolutely nothing that suggests he's going to be their future and are already pretty much conceding that it was a blown pick.
Petty did play and was horrendous.
If I were them, I'd just cut ties with both right now. Neither has any shot at being a starting caliber QB in this league.
even if they take a QB, that QB might benefit from sitting. Some need to.
Bridgewater and McCown can compete for the starting job. Bridgewater needs to show he can still play, so he gets the preseason game opportunity to show for the rest of the league, and there's no reason to just give Josh McCown a job with no competition. He's Josh McCown.
Except that the Jets assured Josh that he is the starter. It was a requirement of his before signing. Josh the Starter - ( New Window )
Wow, that's the jetsiest bit of news I've heard in a while.
In a QB room with Hackenberg and Bryce Petty, McCown needed a guarantee he could have the job?
I know, right? I couldn't believe it either. He demands to be the starter but settles for $10M/yr when the going rate for starters is well north of that. He is a shrewd negotiator.
To Scott Zolaks Twitter (NE reporter) Giants are in huge for Solder, 13-14 mil
Luckily he has no good sources. That would be a disgusting overpay
How is that an over pay? That's what LTs especially top ten LTs in football get....
Because i dont think hes that good. $13M, and how much better is he than Flowers? Not much to warrant that kind of money unless they are confident Flowers can move spots easily but I dont have faith in that. Dude is dumb as rocks
To Scott Zolaks Twitter (NE reporter) Giants are in huge for Solder, 13-14 mil
Luckily he has no good sources. That would be a disgusting overpay
How is that an over pay? That's what LTs especially top ten LTs in football get....
Because i dont think hes that good. $13M, and how much better is he than Flowers? Not much to warrant that kind of money unless they are confident Flowers can move spots easily but I dont have faith in that. Dude is dumb as rocks
I don't doubt he is dumb as rocks but solder is a very solid LT a top ten in football and flowers is prob around 25-32 lol
It's a huge upgrade plus if flowers works out as a RT you could improve two positions...flowers clearly isn't a LT and do we really want a rookie or flowers to protect the blindside of our immobile QB?
Great if they get him for a good pric or not a ridiculous amount of guaranteed money.
It would solve a harder position to fix then guard.
Those who cant tackle in the NFL...guard. Shoot watch flowers become a dominant guard. Pugh was a mediocre tackle as well and did decent at guard. Norwell would prob suck at tackle too. Its a hard position to be good at.
Pugh was medium at tackle and medium at guard ...on a team with poor tackle play.
Ergo. Our best tackle. Not saying much given who we had. And not as solid at guard as we pretended at the time. Oh the pontificating this time last year about "the boss says flowers is the olt and he knows better."
Each player is totally different from the next. Assuming a mediocre tackle makes a better guard ... it's not always the case.
It cannot be apples to apples. It's not the case in any market situation that you only make price via looking at relative quality. No.
Low supply raises the price.
Such as now. It's lucky for the
Player. Good for him. Its a bit of a lottery for him. Great. Get over it ...this trying to say that there may be just as good of an olt on another team making less. So what?
That's irrelevant to the market BC those players aren't IN the market .
its not what you think he is worth.. its what the market price is.. thats what sets the value.. look at what some of the mediocre guys who play tackle got last year..
you keep hearing that guys coming out of college on the OL arent ready to start.. and then you cry about how much starters are getting paid??
Good guard that can play the pass and run, unfortunately he might sign back with the Titans. DG has to make some moves quick Org and teams are not playing games..
its not what you think he is worth.. its what the market price is.. thats what sets the value.. look at what some of the mediocre guys who play tackle got last year..
you keep hearing that guys coming out of college on the OL arent ready to start.. and then you cry about how much starters are getting paid??
I both love and hate this time of year on BBI..
Well there is supply, demand, and having to balance the checkbook and stay within budget.
Yep. Hyde is young and they are paying $$ for him. They will go QB at #1 if this deal goes through. I could see the Brown going Darnold and Nelson for example.
Probably increases the likelihood that the Browns go QB at 1. However, that doesn't guarantee it. Hyde is only on a 3 yr deal and the annual is only 5m, I doubt the guarantees are nuts there.
The bigger factor is probably the Bills looming in a trade up to #3. They can't afford to pass on QB only to see 2 fall off the board after their pick.
Yep. Hyde is young and they are paying $$ for him. They will go QB at #1 if this deal goes through. I could see the Brown going Darnold and Nelson for example.
For what its worth, a few weeks ago when I heard Cleveland was going for Hyde (I shared that with you guys in one of these threads) it was partially tied to Cleveland taking Darnold at 1.
Probably increases the likelihood that the Browns go QB at 1. However, that doesn't guarantee it. Hyde is only on a 3 yr deal and the annual is only 5m, I doubt the guarantees are nuts there.
The bigger factor is probably the Bills looming in a trade up to #3. They can't afford to pass on QB only to see 2 fall off the board after their pick.
Exactly. They go Darnold, Giants Rosen, Colts trade the pick to the Bills who take Arnold, and the Browns end up with Barkley at 4.
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Ravens Center and UFA Ryan Jensen has plans to make two different free agent visits this week: Tampa Bay and Indianapolis.
7.5 million per season. That makes me feel much better about spending 13-14 per season on Solder. I like Fulton but I thought he would be in the 2-3 million range. That is a lot of money to give to a decent starter.
Solder is not top 10. Hes more 15-25, 13 mil a year would def be an overpay
Can we name the 14 guys better? I don't think he is average at all
Thomas
Armstead
Brown
Okung
Staley
Decker
Peters
Whitworth
Williams
Smith
Bakhtiari
Penn
Glenn
Stanley
Matthews
This is very subjective, but the scouts and talent evaluators say otherwise. And the market is set for upper end LT that are available. Most of those guys on the list arent.
It is most definitely subjective. Im not saying Solder is a bad player, but you cannot objectively say that hes better than ALOT of the guys on the list. At least 8 are CLEARLY better
Solder around 15 mil, Jones at 2.9 mil, Stewart 2-3mil, Martin ? but I'd guess at least 3-4 mil.
So- there HAS to be some cuts/re-structures coming today so that the Giants are compliant with the cap.
Marshall, Harris, Armstrong, possibly Jerry, and a re-structure for Ogletree all possibilities.
You don't know what the cap hits are until you see the contracts. It is too early to know if Solder is $15 million this year or if they pushed out some of it to next year or later.
Solder around 15 mil, Jones at 2.9 mil, Stewart 2-3mil, Martin ? but I'd guess at least 3-4 mil.
So- there HAS to be some cuts/re-structures coming today so that the Giants are compliant with the cap.
Marshall, Harris, Armstrong, possibly Jerry, and a re-structure for Ogletree all possibilities.
How is 18 mill not compliant?
yea, the numbers wont be known until we know contract structure. IF the giants werent under after all those deals, you would have seen harris or marshall cut....we are clearly under the cap even with those signings...
Solder around 15 mil, Jones at 2.9 mil, Stewart 2-3mil, Martin ? but I'd guess at least 3-4 mil.
So- there HAS to be some cuts/re-structures coming today so that the Giants are compliant with the cap.
Marshall, Harris, Armstrong, possibly Jerry, and a re-structure for Ogletree all possibilities.
How is 18 mill not compliant?
What I am saying is that the Giants only had 18 mil, and they have yet to factor in these signings. Even if the contracts are backloaded or whatever, there is still a great chance that there isn't enough cap to fit all 3 of them.
with far more cap money (Browns and Texans) to get Solder. DG had to have Mara's backing to go that high.
Cleveland beat thinks Browns' pursuit of Solder means Joe Thomas is in fact retiring. And that announcement could come today. Joe Thomas done? - ( New Window )
Norwell has been strongly linked to the Giants, but the cap-flush 49ers appear ready to make a splash this spring. What we know for sure is that Norwell will not be back in Charlotte.
Source: Art Stapleton on Twitter Mar 12 - 1:36 PM
Tamba Hali from the Chiefs
Orlando Scandrick CB
Lawrence Timmons LB
Many think Andrew Norwell will join the Giants; the 49ers reportedly are trying to prevent that from happening https://t.co/T6Pxn8WdtZ
Texans looking at Solder - ( New Window )
Right?
ahhh no
This should be it's own thread.
Not sure he reminds me of Kiwi, but if the price is right he could be depth. Grew up in Teaneck so he'd be coming home.
If Norwell if just too expesive, Spain is a guy I would take here in a heartbeat. TEN may not be able to throw more money in to that OL, and this guy has been a top 6 OG in the NFL the past 2 years. I have some agent-contacts and they all think he is going to be a RFA.
TEN will have the right to match the offer, but they have to allocate money elsewhere.
yes
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
Saints also reportedly having interest in bringing Graham back.
If Norwell if just too expesive, Spain is a guy I would take here in a heartbeat. TEN may not be able to throw more money in to that OL, and this guy has been a top 6 OG in the NFL the past 2 years. I have some agent-contacts and they all think he is going to be a RFA.
TEN will have the right to match the offer, but they have to allocate money elsewhere.
Twitteriffic - ( New Window )
Not necessarily. SF has plenty of cap $$. Moreso than the NYG, I believe. And they are likely a better team at the moment.
Gross no thanks on Hali, unless it's for the minimum
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and you still mess it up.
Right?
Herding cats.....
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trying to push the Giants number upward
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
If Norwell is as good as people on here seem to believe, then I can't imagine we don't get outbid for him by some team with much more cap flexibility than we have. So, I am planning on this not happening, but who knows.
We will get there but it won't happen over night.
That's a great idea, actually.
Thatll save them some cheese.
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We'd talk to Pugh about a return and a position switch to center. He's light for a RT and not enough of a bull at OG but if he moved to the pivot, I think we'd have a great start to rebuilding the OL. He's big for a center, he won't take as much punishment and he's a bright player who I think could easily anchor the OL as a center.
That's a great idea, actually.
Except that you have to stay healthy to anchor the OL.
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trying to push the Giants number upward
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
yea, it would be great to have pugh playing center for 8-12 games a season (the only OL position he's never played)
I don't think so. They use both players on the field at the same time frequently. Brate is more commonly used as the receiving TE, however, with Howard used more often as a blocker. Which is odd to me given Howard's exceptional speed.
The idea makes sense from a football standpoint, but someone is probably going to be wiling to pay him like a OT and my guess is that it'll be beyond what we're willing to.
I think he's gone.
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In comment 13860055 CMicks3110 said:
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trying to push the Giants number upward
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
SF has $70M in cap space. They can outbid Gmen if they choose
They can, but unless they want to blow the current benchmark for $ on a guard out of the water the money is going to be the same as the Giants can offer. It'll come down to where he wants to sign.
Give me Barkely, Nelson, Minka or Chubb. Im ok. Norwell is needed here, badly
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Does that mean they have soured in OJ Howard? Maybe we dodged a bullet there. I for one was clamoring for him last April and when he started to fall, I really thought we were going to trade up and get him. He was definitely the most polished TE going into the draft last year.
I don't think so. They use both players on the field at the same time frequently. Brate is more commonly used as the receiving TE, however, with Howard used more often as a blocker. Which is odd to me given Howard's exceptional speed.
Considering that TE's like Rhett Ellison can be had for half the cost, looks like Giants did the right thing going for Engram
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In comment 13860055 CMicks3110 said:
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trying to push the Giants number upward
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
If Norwell is as good as people on here seem to believe, then I can't imagine we don't get outbid for him by some team with much more cap flexibility than we have. So, I am planning on this not happening, but who knows.
The Giants don't typically engage in bidding wars, but the highest paid guard in the league is something like ~$14m against the cap annually (That's base + bonuses, not base salary). It's affordable. Unless a team wants to wildly reshape the market for Guards and start offering them midlevel QB money I wouldn't worry too much about getting outbid.
It's more about what situation he likes better.
This year's draft is very deep with interior OL prospects.
Norwell is getting somewhere around 5/65 tops.
And they use both players. It's not a referendum on Howard at this point. You shouldn't judge any player off of one year, particularly their rookie year. With how they use Brate (slot and outside at times), there is room for both players to thrive in that offense.
It's a Brinks truck, btw.
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In comment 13860102 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13860055 CMicks3110 said:
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trying to push the Giants number upward
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
SF has $70M in cap space. They can outbid Gmen if they choose
They can, but unless they want to blow the current benchmark for $ on a guard out of the water the money is going to be the same as the Giants can offer. It'll come down to where he wants to sign.
Jordan Raanan
Verified account @JordanRaanan
2m2 minutes ago
Giants focus at the start of free agency is on Panthers guard Andrew Norwell, per source. They're optimistic about their chances of landing the All Pro guard. It will not be cheap though.
Jordan Raanan
Verified account @JordanRaanan
2m2 minutes ago
Giants focus at the start of free agency is on Panthers guard Andrew Norwell, per source. They're optimistic about their chances of landing the All Pro guard. It will not be cheap though.
Good. Top player, young, productive, huge position of need. Makes too much sense.
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In comment 13860167 Beer Man said:
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In comment 13860102 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13860055 CMicks3110 said:
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trying to push the Giants number upward
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
SF has $70M in cap space. They can outbid Gmen if they choose
They can, but unless they want to blow the current benchmark for $ on a guard out of the water the money is going to be the same as the Giants can offer. It'll come down to where he wants to sign.
What, are you going to follow me around and debate each of my post today? Simple economics, there are limited number of quality FA OL this year, and a number of teams with a lot of cap space. Someone will outbid the Giants if they want him bad enough. We saw the same in each of the last two seasons with FA OL. But once again, thank you for sharing.
I'm really not tracking who I'm responding to with every post. Short of a wild overpay that stuns the league, there are realistic expectations of what a top Guard gets on the market.
It's not going to be a massive jump from what we've seen over the past few years. We're seeing interior offensive linemen be paid more over the past few seasons and I'm sure they're keenly aware of that when they made their plan. It's probably why the previous GM chose not to pursue top linemen.
So, again, barring a team doing something shocking and stupid, the Giants likely expect that they'll have to make Norwell this year's highest-paid linemen in order to sign him. You can usually make a guess of what it'll cose based on the structure of the last guy who was paid the most.
Right now it's Kevin Zeitler, who signed for 5/60, with an annual cap hit average of $12m.
The year before, Osemele signed a deal that averaged $11.7.
If Norwell signs a deal that averages anywhere near 15-16m, it would be a massive shock.
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In comment 13860167 Beer Man said:
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In comment 13860102 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13860055 CMicks3110 said:
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trying to push the Giants number upward
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
SF has $70M in cap space. They can outbid Gmen if they choose
They can, but unless they want to blow the current benchmark for $ on a guard out of the water the money is going to be the same as the Giants can offer. It'll come down to where he wants to sign.
What, are you going to follow me around and debate each of my post today? Simple economics, there are limited number of quality FA OL this year, and a number of teams with a lot of cap space. Someone will outbid the Giants if they want him bad enough. We saw the same in each of the last two seasons with FA OL. But once again, thank you for sharing.
Ha, considering you responded to me first on the other thread this would be exactly one thread I responded to you. Hardly following you. And not coincidentally, they were both about the salary cap which I'm particularly interested in.
What does outbid mean to you in terms of actual $? In other words, if the Giants are willing to play at the 5/65mm range - what do you think SF would have to offer to outbid the Giants to the point where the Giants couldn't match due to the cap?
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In comment 13860181 YAJ2112 said:
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In comment 13860167 Beer Man said:
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In comment 13860102 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13860055 CMicks3110 said:
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trying to push the Giants number upward
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
SF has $70M in cap space. They can outbid Gmen if they choose
They can, but unless they want to blow the current benchmark for $ on a guard out of the water the money is going to be the same as the Giants can offer. It'll come down to where he wants to sign.
What, are you going to follow me around and debate each of my post today? Simple economics, there are limited number of quality FA OL this year, and a number of teams with a lot of cap space. Someone will outbid the Giants if they want him bad enough. We saw the same in each of the last two seasons with FA OL. But once again, thank you for sharing.
Ha, considering you responded to me first on the other thread this would be exactly one thread I responded to you. Hardly following you. And not coincidentally, they were both about the salary cap which I'm particularly interested in.
What does outbid mean to you in terms of actual $? In other words, if the Giants are willing to play at the 5/65mm range - what do you think SF would have to offer to outbid the Giants to the point where the Giants couldn't match due to the cap?
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In comment 13860055 CMicks3110 said:
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trying to push the Giants number upward
Could be, but it's not as if SF or anyone else wouldn't want him. It's not a good time of the football year to trust what leaks out.
SF has $70M in cap space. They can outbid Gmen if they choose
And given California's income tax rates, unbelievably even higher than New Jersey's, they'd have to.
The only problem with that is with his short arms he might not be physically capable of moving the ball from the ground to his taint. He might continually snap the ball directly in his nuts.
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The only problem with that is with his short arms he might not be physically capable of moving the ball from the ground to his taint. He might continually snap the ball directly in his nuts.
I truly wasn't expecting a comment like this. Way to win the Monday. Hilarious.
Am I off base for thinking that's outrageous and a terrible move for Cincinnati?
Am I off base for thinking that's outrageous and a terrible move for Cincinnati?
I was kinda thinking the same thing. How did they not get at least a 3rd rounder too?
Correction it was the Viikings.
Am I off base for thinking that's outrageous and a terrible move for Cincinnati?
The terrible move is letting their All-Pro LT Whitworth walk away. They thought the young depth was ready to take over. Now, they have to double down on the mistake and get Glenn.
How about the Giants trade the 2 to Buffalo for picks 12, 22, 53 and 55?
3/12/18, 4:51 PM
In keeping with their advertised prudent approach, I dont envision the #49ers extending too far for free-agent guard Andrew Norwell. He is considered the top guy at that spot on the open market and can be expected to become the highest-paid guard in the league.
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reaching out to Drew Brees. That would be interesting.
Correction it was the Viikings.
Cardinals and any other team that needs a QB should be calling Condon. If a team is prepared to back up the Brinks truck for Cousins, those same teams should be doing the same to Brees. Perhaps the length of the contract terms won't be the same, but the yearly salary should be. Brees is a first-ballot HOF'er. It is the Saints fault for letting it get to this point. Now, they should have to compete for Brees services on the open market the same as any other team. Brees playing pitch and catch with Larry Fitz with David Johnson toting the rock? -Yes, Please.
3/12/18, 5:00 PM
Cardinals have interest in G Andrew Norwell but not at an exorbitant number. And someone is likely to give him something exorbitant.
3/12/18, 4:51 PM
In keeping with their advertised prudent approach, I dont envision the #49ers extending too far for free-agent guard Andrew Norwell. He is considered the top guy at that spot on the open market and can be expected to become the highest-paid guard in the league.
I find this hard to believe after trading for and signing Jimmy G, extending Goodwin, signing Sherman, etc.
HORRIBLE trade by Cincy IMO. The price for trading up in round 1, especially to the 12th pick from the 20's, is usually an additional 1st rounder(Houston, KC last year). They got an overpriced 29 year old OT who is slightly above average with injury concerns. They should have gotten both picks 21 and 22 IMO.
I'm not saying it's a good move, but they still have a first round pick, so I don't think it is as bad as you may think.
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Are positioning themselves to possibly trade up for a QB. Dropping from 12 into the top 10 is much more palatable than dropping from the 20's.
How about the Giants trade the 2 to Buffalo for picks 12, 22, 53 and 55?
I'm going to need more than that. Perhaps, 12, 22, 53, 55 + Peterman + a Day 2 pick next year. And that is only if the NYG powers that be are sold on the notion that Webb is a solid QB prospect w/ Peterman as a viable backup (or the reverse I suppose).
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Are positioning themselves to possibly trade up for a QB. Dropping from 12 into the top 10 is much more palatable than dropping from the 20's.
How about the Giants trade the 2 to Buffalo for picks 12, 22, 53 and 55?
Or we stay put and take bpa. Guaranteed one of Barkley or Darnold
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this really doesnt make sense for Cincinnati.
HORRIBLE trade by Cincy IMO. The price for trading up in round 1, especially to the 12th pick from the 20's, is usually an additional 1st rounder(Houston, KC last year). They got an overpriced 29 year old OT who is slightly above average with injury concerns. They should have gotten both picks 21 and 22 IMO.
Agreed. As someone said, the mistake was letting Whitworth go. This just compounds that mistake. It looks desperate. But it does get Buffalo a lot closer to one of the "big three" QBs.
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In comment 13860460 Beer Man said:
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Are positioning themselves to possibly trade up for a QB. Dropping from 12 into the top 10 is much more palatable than dropping from the 20's.
How about the Giants trade the 2 to Buffalo for picks 12, 22, 53 and 55?
I'm going to need more than that. Perhaps, 12, 22, 53, 55 + Peterman + a Day 2 pick next year. And that is only if the NYG powers that be are sold on the notion that Webb is a solid QB prospect w/ Peterman as a viable backup (or the reverse I suppose).
Your proposed trade is more than the Giants sent for Eli Manning.
I remember that he took snaps at C in Senior Bowl practice and told the Sirius guys he was comfortable with it. Always wondered since he's the 'versatility guy' that he never worked there for NYG.
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In comment 13860476 jeff57 said:
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In comment 13860460 Beer Man said:
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Are positioning themselves to possibly trade up for a QB. Dropping from 12 into the top 10 is much more palatable than dropping from the 20's.
How about the Giants trade the 2 to Buffalo for picks 12, 22, 53 and 55?
I'm going to need more than that. Perhaps, 12, 22, 53, 55 + Peterman + a Day 2 pick next year. And that is only if the NYG powers that be are sold on the notion that Webb is a solid QB prospect w/ Peterman as a viable backup (or the reverse I suppose).
Your proposed trade is more than the Giants sent for Eli Manning.
And? They'd be trading from #12 to #2. Not #4 to #1. And presumably they're not taking a player who doesn't want to go to the Giants. There's no way they can get away with just trading their two present 1s to get in the top 2.
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reaching out to Drew Brees. That would be interesting.
Correction it was the Viikings.
Mentioned on the previous thread that Broncos' fans are on the alert on this. Brees has the same agent (Tom Condon) as Peyton Manning, and Elway knows Condon very well.
Would have thought the Saints' would have a solid gentleman's agreement in place but, if not, Cousins has some competition.
I think you still need a 2nd rounder this year to do the deal.
On the points scale, yes the 12th, 22nd, and next year's first works, but I still need another pick this year to give up #2 and potentially the top QB in this draft.
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I'd take Guice, Vander Esch, and potentially have a top 10 pick next year.
I think you still need a 2nd rounder this year to do the deal.
On the points scale, yes the 12th, 22nd, and next year's first works, but I still need another pick this year to give up #2 and potentially the top QB in this draft.
I agree. I almost included their second 2, but I was being conservative because I tend to get a bit excited about trade down potential. I think we're in a position of enormous strength right now. Especially for a team like the Bills looking to sneak into the top...
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In comment 13860476 jeff57 said:
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In comment 13860460 Beer Man said:
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Are positioning themselves to possibly trade up for a QB. Dropping from 12 into the top 10 is much more palatable than dropping from the 20's.
How about the Giants trade the 2 to Buffalo for picks 12, 22, 53 and 55?
I'm going to need more than that. Perhaps, 12, 22, 53, 55 + Peterman + a Day 2 pick next year. And that is only if the NYG powers that be are sold on the notion that Webb is a solid QB prospect w/ Peterman as a viable backup (or the reverse I suppose).
Your proposed trade is more than the Giants sent for Eli Manning.
No its not. Key aspect of my trade as oppose to the Eli trade is that this trade takes NYG out of the QB picture in terms of replacing Eli. Its not like we're moving to 4. We're moving to 12.
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In comment 13860508 adamg said:
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I'd take Guice, Vander Esch, and potentially have a top 10 pick next year.
I think you still need a 2nd rounder this year to do the deal.
On the points scale, yes the 12th, 22nd, and next year's first works, but I still need another pick this year to give up #2 and potentially the top QB in this draft.
I agree. I almost included their second 2, but I was being conservative because I tend to get a bit excited about trade down potential. I think we're in a position of enormous strength right now. Especially for a team like the Bills looking to sneak into the top...
Bills are now 12. Probably want to get into top 11 to get get one of top 4 QBs. I think 12 is too far for #Giants to trade down
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Bills are now 12. Probably want to get into top 11 to get get one of top 4 QBs. I think 12 is too far for #Giants to trade down
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Im sorry. This is a Ryan Dunleavy tweet in response to Schefter
Bills are now 12. Probably want to get into top 11 to get get one of top 4 QBs. I think 12 is too far for #Giants to trade down
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Good, and it should be. No way should we move all the way to 12. Not when we have chance to grab once in lifetime player.
Nelson will not be there at #12. No QB, no Barkley, no Nelson, no good.
That seems ridiculous to me. There are teams with a huge monetary advantage over us w/re to the cap. If they bid some exorbitant amount for Norwell We might not want or be able to match that.
I'd be disappointed, as Norwell is an important get for us, but I'm not gonna give up on DG or our future with him over one deal he couldn't land when we weren't competing on even terms.
If Norwell if just too expesive, Spain is a guy I would take here in a heartbeat. TEN may not be able to throw more money in to that OL, and this guy has been a top 6 OG in the NFL the past 2 years. I have some agent-contacts and they all think he is going to be a RFA.
TEN will have the right to match the offer, but they have to allocate money elsewhere.
Good call. Thanks for the heads up.
That's a bit ridiculous. The Giants don't have a lot of cap room to work with this year as DG walked into a less than ideal situation. He is still working on signing the best available FA offensive linemen but he is competing with teams with much more cap room.
But many of the mouth breathing invalids on BBI say its a great idea...
A trade down to 12 would merit more than a remote throw. Im tossing the TV off my roof.
Yeah, but we can have two 1st round picks instead of 1. Who needs a stud player as long as you have a bunch of picks. Did Brown's real well when they did it.
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Down to 12 in a draft thats top heavy with possibly 6 studs who will all be gone by then. No fucking thanks
Yeah, but we can have two 1st round picks instead of 1. Who needs a stud player as long as you have a bunch of picks. Did Brown's real well when they did it.
Really? Last time I checked, the Browns have 1 win in 2 years. Real successful...
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In comment 13860612 TommyWiseau said:
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Down to 12 in a draft thats top heavy with possibly 6 studs who will all be gone by then. No fucking thanks
Yeah, but we can have two 1st round picks instead of 1. Who needs a stud player as long as you have a bunch of picks. Did Brown's real well when they did it.
Really? Last time I checked, the Browns have 1 win in 2 years. Real successful...
Lol. I was kidding if you couldn't tell. I do not want to move anywhere. Only argument should be is If we pick a qb or Barkley, not on how far we should move. Stay where we are.
We don't pick #2 often. Stay there and try to grab your next qb for 10 years. Don't get cute or in two years we will be in same position as bills are today.
We don't pick #2 often. Stay there and try to grab your next qb for 10 years. Don't get cute or in two years we will be in same position as bills are today.
Agreed, the Browns have accumulated picks over the past few years and that hasn't worked out well for them. This team is in position to get it's next franchise QB without giving up multiple assets to move up in the draft as they did with Eli.
I can understand all 3 of these options.
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Are positioning themselves to possibly trade up for a QB. Dropping from 12 into the top 10 is much more palatable than dropping from the 20's.
How about the Giants trade the 2 to Buffalo for picks 12, 22, 53 and 55?
Also need a 1st for 2019 in case you want to trade up for a QB.
2018: 1,1,2,3
2019: 1,3
There's a lot of teams with money. It makes things drag out longer.
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Has today been BORING. I didnt expect 10 signings throughout the NFL but we usually hear about 2-3 that are essentially done deals across the league. A real Debbie downer today.
There's a lot of teams with money. It makes things drag out longer.
Well that, and the fact that FA doesn't start until Weds. Today only start the "legal tampering" window.
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That all being said, I want Barkley after watching his clips. I used to watch any Lion game I could just to see Barry Sanders. I loved Tiki's great years from a pure entertainment standpoint. If we can fix the oline and have Beckham, Barkly, Engram, that may just amazingly fun to watch.
Both teams have more cap flexibility, I wont be surprised or upset if he goes to either over us.
Source? Havent seen this anywhere else
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If Dave G fails in free agency, I won't be confident at all in what he is going to do in the draft with the 2nd pick. In other words, he better get his guy Norwell or it may end up the first of many mistakes this fucking guy makes. Get it done Gettlemen.
+1..
Reese left this franchise in as poor a situation as the good situation EA left for him.
Poor/very poor draft selections in general...devoid of talent across the OL and LB...expensive FA contracts due to poor drafting and therefore somewhat cap strapped in a poor FA market with few standouts at positions of need and with our competition in better position to outbid us...and only 5 picks.
This is not a 1 draft...2 draft fix...and our 1 of likely 2 marketable commodities (jackrabbit the other) is a headcase in maybe alittle trouble and even if innocent is a sell low commodity right now.
Norwell is a dream that maybe comes true...but if not maybe that 13/14M can yield 2-3 position players> what we have.
DG is a GM...not a miracle worker....Stay calm.
That's a bit ridiculous. The Giants don't have a lot of cap room to work with this year as DG walked into a less than ideal situation. He is still working on signing the best available FA offensive linemen but he is competing with teams with much more cap room.
Strong chance that McGlinchey is a RT in the NFL, so that's not necessarily relevant.
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this really doesnt make sense for Cincinnati.
Strong chance that McGlinchey is a RT in the NFL, so that's not necessarily relevant.
I strongly disagree. McGlinchey has very good feet and I expect he will be a good LT in the NFL. I think he can play both, and he may start on the right side, but eventually he'll make his career as a LT. Really good player. Best OT I've studied in this draft so far.
I know this position is not popular with everyone here. But maybe you pursue Solder, sign Sitton, and draft OL in round one. Denver is less desperate than they were yesterday and dont have to move up. Still might. But you can draft Nelson at 2 or trade with the Jets or even Buffalo and still get McGlichney. I wouldnt rule out trading with Buffalo. The boat load of picks would help fix this team for the long haul without stressing the cap.
Could see that happening. They need a third CB, and their second cb is a FA.
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Final terms of the #Chiefs expected deal for WR Sammy Watkins: 3 years, $48M with $30M fully guaranteed at signing, sources say.
I know this position is not popular with everyone here. But maybe you pursue Solder, sign Sitton, and draft OL in round one. Denver is less desperate than they were yesterday and dont have to move up. Still might. But you can draft Nelson at 2 or trade with the Jets or even Buffalo and still get McGlichney. I wouldnt rule out trading with Buffalo. The boat load of picks would help fix this team for the long haul without stressing the cap.
I wanted Norwell here so we could have a proven OL piece to build around. But in the end, there are good Guards in free agency like Sitton maybe Jensen. The best thing about Norwell was he was entering him prime years. I have hope DG will find some pieces and maybe since we didn't spend so much on one player.
Pissed off that Reese left our line like this. We had the perfect opportunity to setup one qb to another like 49ers, packers, colts. Doesn't happen often and now we're fucked from doing that.
+1
Pissed off that Reese left our line like this. We had the perfect opportunity to setup one qb to another like 49ers, packers, colts. Doesn't happen often and now we're fucked from doing that.
JPP and Vernon come to mind.
Solder is still out there
Kelemente can probably be had for a fraction of what Solder cost
Any other OL of note?
JPP and Vernon come to mind.
I'm dissapointed that we didn't get Norwell but with that price tag we could sign 2 solid guys and upgrade 2 positions on the OL instead of 1/5.
Solder is still out there
Kelemente can probably be had for a fraction of what Solder cost
Any other OL of note?
Justin Pugh, Ryan Jensen, Josh Sitton, Chris Hubbard, Brandon Fusco, Jack Mewhort, Josh Kline
Now Odell will be asking for 23-24mil/yr. This is why they should've moved fast on that extension.
JPP and Vernon come to mind.
Those two contracts are very different from signing a 26 year old all pro to a long term deal.
Signing JPP to a long term deal coming off that injury was the questionable move. Paying Vernon on potential and projecting his future years on advanced metric stats was the gamble.
They have to insulate themselves against the chance of not getting a QB.
The year Seattle got Russell Wilson was the same year they threw a ton of money at a free agent QB from Green Bay.
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If Dave G fails in free agency, I won't be confident at all in what he is going to do in the draft with the 2nd pick. In other words, he better get his guy Norwell or it may end up the first of many mistakes this fucking guy makes. Get it done Gettlemen.
Yeah, it's Gettlemen's fault that NJ has ridiculous income tax rates and cost of living.
Norwell's take home pay will be over 1 million dollars higher for the same salary if he goes to Jax vs. NJ. Plus he can live in a beautiful mansion on the beach about 20 minutes from the stadium and be set for life. And there's the weather. It will be upper 60s today in Jax..
I guess that's all Gettlemen's fault.
Gettleman needs to allocate the financials wisely. We may not get an All Pro on the OL, but all we need is a functional unit to be able to win.
Norwell is good but I am maybe in the minority in being very happy hes not coming here at his price tag.
With his cap number we can find a G and a RT. It also allows us to maybe add a CB and a LB still.
Why are people upset? It's a no brainer decision for him.
Just because it's never been used doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And maybe you didn't notice the other factors I mentioned. Maybe a beautiful mansion on the beach 20 minutes from work and nicer weather doesn't sound good to you..
Also, when they say it's not about the money, it's about the money. Over 6 million dollars difference in take home pay over 5 years and lower cost of housing and living isn't insignificant.
It seems like it is used every year, at least here on BBI it is.
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have always had to deal with when trying to get players. It's never been used an excuse before.
Just because it's never been used doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And maybe you didn't notice the other factors I mentioned. Maybe a beautiful mansion on the beach 20 minutes from work and nicer weather doesn't sound good to you..
Also, when they say it's not about the money, it's about the money. Over 6 million dollars difference in take home pay over 5 years and lower cost of housing and living isn't insignificant.
Of course the issue exists, they've probably had to pay a guy a bit more to be competitive with states that allow players to keep more of what they earn.
If the team wanted a player, that shouldn't be any kind of barrier to a deal. My point is that that problem shouldn't catch them by surprise.
Solder looks to be going elsewhere, and his market will likely scare the Giants off anyways.
Arguably the 2 best OL building blocks the Giants have are leaving in FA.
The Giants OL is in jeopardy of somehow getting worse.
Then you add the other factors and it's a hard sell. Coughlin knows firsthand of how a beautiful mansion on the beach and nice weather can make a wife happy. He never sold his mansion after being fired by Jax years ago. Happy wife, happy life.
I don't know if Norwell's married, but who wouldn't want a mansion on the beach 20 min from work?
Solder looks to be going elsewhere, and his market will likely scare the Giants off anyways.
Arguably the 2 best OL building blocks the Giants have are leaving in FA.
The Giants OL is in jeopardy of somehow getting worse.
It really can't be any worse than last year. We just need guys that don't suck. And overpaying for average players is not the answer.
2. Justin Pugh-
3. Josh Sitton- 31 years old but still a quality player
Hubbard
Fleming
Waddle
G:
Sitton
Spain
Fulton
LB:
Bradham
Williamson
P:
Huber
K:
Sturgis
Restructured.
Hubbard
Fleming
Waddle
G:
Sitton
Spain
Fulton
LB:
Bradham
Williamson
P:
Huber
K:
Sturgis
Add Kelemete to the OG list
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T:
Hubbard
Fleming
Waddle
G:
Sitton
Spain
Fulton
LB:
Bradham
Williamson
P:
Huber
K:
Sturgis
Add Kelemete to the OG list
No doubt
Hubbard
Fleming
Waddle
G:
Sitton
Spain
Fulton
LB:
Bradham
Williamson
P:
Huber
K:
Sturgis
I would try for Hubbard and spain..
Then try and add b radham, him and ogletree adds so much speed and athleticism to the linebacking position
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T:
Hubbard
Fleming
Waddle
G:
Sitton
Spain
Fulton
LB:
Bradham
Williamson
P:
Huber
K:
Sturgis
I would try for Hubbard and spain..
Then try and add b radham, him and ogletree adds so much speed and athleticism to the linebacking position
That would be a solid free agent period and set us up well for the draft
Latavius Murray will likely be released.
G/C Nick Easton is getting a 2nd round tender
Latavius Murray will likely be released.
G/C Nick Easton is getting a 2nd round tender
Yuck, might as well just keep Darkwa.
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3-4 rushers on the end are guys like Moss, OV and Okwara. Goodson and Ogletree are the middle backers.
That's a strange add.
Could be a solid LT
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have always had to deal with when trying to get players. It's never been used an excuse before.
It seems like it is used every year, at least here on BBI it is.
It is here and with Knicks fans, who say the same thing when a big player would sign with the team that resides in Arizona, Texas or Florida.
Oddly, when a player signs with a team from California, this argument of the tax doesn't come up.
We are losing everything.
If anything all of this leads to a clean slate at QB. I think it is the most logical move taking the emotion out of it.
I think it makes more sense to bring back Eli. Do you really want to throw a rookie QB behind a suspect offensive line?
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Regarding the 2018 NYG prospects. It actually makes me wonder why theyre bringing Eli back.
I think it makes more sense to bring back Eli. Do you really want to throw a rookie QB behind a suspect offensive line?
We are in a full rebuild mode. We should be at point where every player should grow together.
If we are going to be bad next year there is no reason to start a 37 year old QB.
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people are not going to come here with similar offers from better teams. We were bad last year and will be bad this year coming up, we just got to build through the draft and add the pieces in FA when that foundation is built and we have money to spend. I think people tended to overrate our situation. Draft a franchise QB and get the ball rolling on our rebuild.
If we are going to be bad next year there is no reason to start a 37 year old QB.
But the billboards?
I also like the the kid Fulton from kc- solid player on the line
I also like the the kid Fulton from kc- solid player on the line
I like Fulton too but yesterday it was reported that the Texans were interested in him and we willing to pay him 7 million per season which is way too much. I hope they can come away with Hubbard, John Sullivan, and perhaps Jack Mewhort on a contract with an option after year one.
I also like the the kid Fulton from kc- solid player on the line
Hey Hitdog, what are you hearing? Anything materialize with L. Webb? Any hints on OL NYG may be going after?
If ownership's intention is not to rebuild, than I don't need to see how FA and the draft play out, I know my answer--this will be a colossal failure. We have had losing season 4 of the last 5 years and were 3-13 last year. This has not been a successful franchise and we are not 2-4 players away from competing. We have no depth, we have no OL, we had the 31st ranked defense last year, we lack really a safety and a CB, and we have a QB who is 37. If ownership this is something that can be fixed by FA and the draft we are in a whole heep of trouble.
Clueless owners don't win 2 super bowls in 4 years
6 million per doesn't mean 6 million against the cap
How did they get farther? They upgraded at quarterback and everyone is coming back from last year
it boggles the mind
it boggles the mind
proof that timing is everything huh?
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Minnesota just got farther away from the Super Bowl.
How did they get farther? They upgraded at quarterback and everyone is coming back from last year
"Everyone is coming back from last year" is not how the NFL works.
Cousins is a JAG, and the Vikings just went from a position of power at QB (Bradford, Bridgewater, Keenum for $22M combined and no commitment beyond 2017) to putting all their eggs in the basket of a guy that couldn't beat the Giants (with nothing to play for) at home to make the playoffs in 2016.
You aren't winning shit with Cousins as your quarterback, and you certainly aren't winning anything with him for $84 million in guaranteed money.
it boggles the mind
well one is 29 the other is 39
Cameron Flemming, OT - Hasn't played a ton for the Pats, but he's been very solid when he's played.
Sentrel Henderson, OT - Dealing with some health issues, but he could be a legitimate starter in this league.
John Sullivan, C - Has experience in Shurmur's scheme
Joe Berger, C - Same story
We are losing everything.
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Drew Brees gets $25/million/year and with $20 million guaranteed over two years and freekin Kirk Cousins gets $28 million fully guaranteed for three years
it boggles the mind
well one is 29 the other is 39
Shouldn't matter how old they are. I think the point is just that its crazy to think that an average QB like Kirk Cousins can make more per season than a hall of fame QB like Drew Brees who can still play better than him.
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fully guaranteed contracts will now be the norm.
It might be because of the length of the contract. Three years is short term compared to a number of other QBs.
Perhaps, but the precedent has now been set, especially for quarterbacks.
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In comment 13862015 gidiefor said:
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Drew Brees gets $25/million/year and with $20 million guaranteed over two years and freekin Kirk Cousins gets $28 million fully guaranteed for three years
it boggles the mind
well one is 29 the other is 39
Shouldn't matter how old they are. I think the point is just that its crazy to think that an average QB like Kirk Cousins can make more per season than a hall of fame QB like Drew Brees who can still play better than him.
Im not sure thats true, plus if all goes well kirk can be their qb for 8+ years
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In comment 13862009 Go Terps said:
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Minnesota just got farther away from the Super Bowl.
How did they get farther? They upgraded at quarterback and everyone is coming back from last year
"Everyone is coming back from last year" is not how the NFL works.
Cousins is a JAG, and the Vikings just went from a position of power at QB (Bradford, Bridgewater, Keenum for $22M combined and no commitment beyond 2017) to putting all their eggs in the basket of a guy that couldn't beat the Giants (with nothing to play for) at home to make the playoffs in 2016.
You aren't winning shit with Cousins as your quarterback, and you certainly aren't winning anything with him for $84 million in guaranteed money.
Completely agree. Shouldn't we know after going 11-5 to 3-13 with essentially the same roster that returning everyone doesn't mean a whole lot? The breaks the Vikings got could completely disappear, injuries can and will set in, their coaching staff turnover, etc. Its hard to stay good in this league.
I'm betting on them regressing and being more beatable this year, while tying up a big sum of money in a QB who's already reached his ceiling.
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got here.
Clueless owners don't win 2 super bowls in 4 years
What have the Giants done or not done this offseason yet? I think they are playing it perfectly. Don't overspend. We are in a partial rebuild, no reason to overpay to fill a hole when you have so many to fill. I'd rather spend on the cheap and get bargains and then build through the draft. The draft was incredibly bad the past 5 years. You cannot expect DG to just come in and clean it all up in a matter of months. They have absolutely no depth and not a lot of young talent with limited FA money.
Full reset, rebuild from scratch isn't happening now.
But, to expect to plug holes and make a run behind Eli does not compute any longer, that's sentimentality given the Eli I've watched the past three seasons along with the current roster with some upgrades.
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An interesting note on the Sammy Watkins/Chiefs deal is that the Cowboys were reportedly interested and in the hunt for Watkins, too. What's that mean for their WR corps? And their WR1?
5 year 40 mil for Richardson? Why that is an over pay
The Vikings are an excellent illustration of this. Last year they were extremely versatile in that they had three options at quarterback. Bradford started the year and played well but got hurt. Keenum took over knowing that Bridgewater was there to take his job should he falter. They were versatile and because all of their contracts expired after the season were uncommitted to any of them. It worked out well and even allowed them to recover from a QB injury...something that is often fatal to a team's season.
Now they have no versatility at quarterback. They are tied to Cousins for three years. The Vikings HAVE to be good with Cousins; there is no plan B.
They were a better team at the start of 2017 than they are today.
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Another BBI favorite bites the dust...
5 year 40 mil for Richardson? Why that is an over pay
It's a lot, but there is real talent there. They are paying him for expected performance, not past performance. He's a legit deep threat for them. I wouldn't have written that check, though.
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In comment 13861957 Victor in CT said:
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got here.
Clueless owners don't win 2 super bowls in 4 years
What have the Giants done or not done this offseason yet? I think they are playing it perfectly. Don't overspend. We are in a partial rebuild, no reason to overpay to fill a hole when you have so many to fill. I'd rather spend on the cheap and get bargains and then build through the draft. The draft was incredibly bad the past 5 years. You cannot expect DG to just come in and clean it all up in a matter of months. They have absolutely no depth and not a lot of young talent with limited FA money.
I'm not criticizing DG. I like him and as I said earlier I hope he has a lot of George Young in him because rigth now that's what they need: someone who will tell Mara/Tisch to butt out unless it concerns $$ for contracts. I'm criticizing the poor, indecisive, patchwork, half assed measures from ownership the lead to this mess. 1st the DefCo, then the Off Co, then the Head COach but not the staff, then finally Reese and Mcadoo and most of the staff after 8 shit drafts in a row, 1 playoff blowout loss in 6 years.
What if Cousins has a carreer ending injury week 1 2018? The vikes are screwed for 3 years.
Quote:
In comment 13862129 adamg said:
Quote:
Another BBI favorite bites the dust...
5 year 40 mil for Richardson? Why that is an over pay
It's a lot, but there is real talent there. They are paying him for expected performance, not past performance. He's a legit deep threat for them. I wouldn't have written that check, though.
That is insane amount of dollars for an unproven WR. He does have talent, but man $8M per year. Have to think there is better value to be had.
The Vikings are an excellent illustration of this. Last year they were extremely versatile in that they had three options at quarterback. Bradford started the year and played well but got hurt. Keenum took over knowing that Bridgewater was there to take his job should he falter. They were versatile and because all of their contracts expired after the season were uncommitted to any of them. It worked out well and even allowed them to recover from a QB injury...something that is often fatal to a team's season.
Now they have no versatility at quarterback. They are tied to Cousins for three years. The Vikings HAVE to be good with Cousins; there is no plan B.
They were a better team at the start of 2017 than they are today.
And Cousins has to be ALOT better than he is. They are going to regret this contract. It will soon be exhibit A in the "Why You Shouldn't Pay Premium $$ to Very Average Players" museum. This is Ryan Fitzpatrick II. Case Keenum will be Ryan Fitzpatrick III.
Nope no targets... we won't sign anyone this year. Oh wait you can't even sign people yet.
No the FO are sitting around twiddling their thumbs. JFC FA hasn't even officially begun yet and people are throwing fits because they lost out on Norwell. Maybe you should wait a couple of days before you panic.
I heard it's Luke Atmadiq, waiting confirmation...
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is our target now? Do we even have one?
I heard it's Luke Atmadiq, waiting confirmation...
Great player, he's a little stiff but he likes to hit the hole hard.
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is our target now? Do we even have one?
I heard it's Luke Atmadiq, waiting confirmation...
I hope not... Way undersized!
Quote:
In comment 13862149 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 13862129 adamg said:
Quote:
Another BBI favorite bites the dust...
5 year 40 mil for Richardson? Why that is an over pay
It's a lot, but there is real talent there. They are paying him for expected performance, not past performance. He's a legit deep threat for them. I wouldn't have written that check, though.
That is insane amount of dollars for an unproven WR. He does have talent, but man $8M per year. Have to think there is better value to be had.
It's a lot of money, but Richardson is a good fit for their offense. Also, it's a lot less money than Watkins got, a player who hasn't proved anything in this league. I'd rather have Richardson.
Have to say, I agree. OBJ's contract would have a lot of conduct clauses if it were me.
IMO gotta make a move for solder here....then go OG in round 2, bring back fluker and go with
Solder-Wynn/Hernandez-Jones-Fluker-Flowers
Wheeler/Jerry/halap for depth
Solder
Bradham
Trumaine Johnson
three guys who i like, be nice to land two of em
Quote:
In comment 13862196 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
is our target now? Do we even have one?
I heard it's Luke Atmadiq, waiting confirmation...
I hope not... Way undersized!
However, great explosion.
Not happening. Can't even understand the thinking on this.
wow really??!
Hes the best defensive player in the division. No way this is true. Come on.
Where did you hear this from?
Why? So then you can hope to draft player just as good as b eckham? You don't just trade one of the best players in the league
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are shopping Fletcher Cox..
Where did you hear this from?
Eagle fan sent me some tweets. I don't think they are asking for a lot either. It is to clear up cap space. Eagles just signed Haloti Ngata too..
A brawler! - ( New Window )
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In comment 13862489 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
are shopping Fletcher Cox..
Where did you hear this from?
Eagle fan sent me some tweets. I don't think they are asking for a lot either. It is to clear up cap space. Eagles just signed Haloti Ngata too..
Was it you in another thread that said the Giants were interested in Malcolm Butler? Didn't see that anywhere either.
Isn't he a center
Quote:
In comment 13862514 mattyblue said:
Quote:
In comment 13862489 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
are shopping Fletcher Cox..
Where did you hear this from?
Eagle fan sent me some tweets. I don't think they are asking for a lot either. It is to clear up cap space. Eagles just signed Haloti Ngata too..
Was it you in another thread that said the Giants were interested in Malcolm Butler? Didn't see that anywhere either.
Nflchase on instagram had giants as interested in butler
Yea i tend to agree. i hate to be all gloomy and shit but truth is he immediately gave us an anchor on that OL and was IMO a key piece to having some success this year. there arent many great options left along the OL and truth is OL play has been down around the league and at this point we will be signing back ups to start....i expect a really shitty season which may have happened if we signed norwell but norwell would have given some hope to moving in the right direction on the OL. nothing we can do tho. got outbid by a better team....easy choice for him.
The Vikings are an excellent illustration of this. Last year they were extremely versatile in that they had three options at quarterback. Bradford started the year and played well but got hurt. Keenum took over knowing that Bridgewater was there to take his job should he falter. They were versatile and because all of their contracts expired after the season were uncommitted to any of them. It worked out well and even allowed them to recover from a QB injury...something that is often fatal to a team's season.
Now they have no versatility at quarterback. They are tied to Cousins for three years. The Vikings HAVE to be good with Cousins; there is no plan B.
They were a better team at the start of 2017 than they are today.
That whole scenario came about only because of Bridgewater's horrible injury, and panicking into trading a first round pick for Bradford. I don't know that versatility at that position is a thing that can be replicated.
Rather than clearing cap space, Eagles would take a huge cap hit if Cox's dead cap were to be accelerated. Don't see any mention of him being in play at Bleeding Green.
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At the right price.... A brawler! - ( New Window )
Isn't he a center
Will they pick up anyone in free agency? I'm used to them not getting what they need and I expected this free agency season to be better with DG in charge.....but so far......nothing!
Solder
Bradham
Trumaine Johnson
three guys who i like, be nice to land two of em
I came on here to ask about Trumaine Johnson. There have been reports that the Gmen might look to free agency to fill a CB spot.
What would Johnson command and would he be a good fit??
Quote:
Solder
Bradham
Trumaine Johnson
three guys who i like, be nice to land two of em
I came on here to ask about Trumaine Johnson. There have been reports that the Gmen might look to free agency to fill a CB spot.
What would Johnson command and would he be a good fit??
I imagine Johnson would get Jenkins type money. He would be our biggest FA signing if he's the guy. I don't know if we would do that.
Teddy is a short term hire.
Quote:
In comment 13862312 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
Solder
Bradham
Trumaine Johnson
three guys who i like, be nice to land two of em
I came on here to ask about Trumaine Johnson. There have been reports that the Gmen might look to free agency to fill a CB spot.
What would Johnson command and would he be a good fit??
I imagine Johnson would get Jenkins type money. He would be our biggest FA signing if he's the guy. I don't know if we would do that.
After I got thinking about it more, this was what I came up with as well. The Giants would have a lot of $$ tied up in the CB spot.
100% agree...
Solder and bradham would be as good haul....solder is 30, not 40...he has 3-5 good years left and could help guys like flowers and wheeler.
then go QB or barkley and in round 2 go OG
Quote:
In comment 13862628 OBJRoyal said:
Quote:
In comment 13862312 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
Solder
Bradham
Trumaine Johnson
three guys who i like, be nice to land two of em
I came on here to ask about Trumaine Johnson. There have been reports that the Gmen might look to free agency to fill a CB spot.
What would Johnson command and would he be a good fit??
I imagine Johnson would get Jenkins type money. He would be our biggest FA signing if he's the guy. I don't know if we would do that.
After I got thinking about it more, this was what I came up with as well. The Giants would have a lot of $$ tied up in the CB spot.
NO way he gets jenkins money IMO. i dont think he is that good. id take butler as he may be the cheaper option...maybe a discount after the Super Bowl debacle
No, it hasn't. Frank Gore to the Eagles a few years ago ring a bell?
Fuller is a really good CB, so it is almost a wash with Peters when you factor in the distractions w/Peters, plus they get draft picks back. And they signed Hitchens who is an upgrade for their LB core.
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Are they now out of the QB hunt in the draft?
Just the opposite.
I really dislike the fact that the guys who they've been linked to are RB's. One guy is 28 coming off a career year, the other guy is 31 with a ton of mileage. Plus, I feel that you should never pay for a RB in FA. How many RB's outperform their 2nd contract? I'd rather address RB with a pair of fresh, healthy legs in the draft. RB's are always at their peak in the first 4 years of their career.
Wow that is pretty bad. Might as well keep Landry...
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ThE thing that is the most frustrating isnt the fact that we havent signed anyone yet, its more about us not being linked to anyone. Norwell and Dion Lewis, thats pretty much it. Oh and how can I forget J-Stew...lol Im not getting impatient, and I dont want them to spend big money on ehh players, I just want to see some connections. Oh well.
I really dislike the fact that the guys who they've been linked to are RB's. One guy is 28 coming off a career year, the other guy is 31 with a ton of mileage. Plus, I feel that you should never pay for a RB in FA. How many RB's outperform their 2nd contract? I'd rather address RB with a pair of fresh, healthy legs in the draft. RB's are always at their peak in the first 4 years of their career.
We're not going to draft two RBs - presumably. We need to add depth to the position. I hope Perkins is our fourth RB going into 2018. We just lost two FA RBs in Vereen and Darkwa. We need to add at least one guy in FA either now of after the draft.
Wilson (along with Burton going to CHI) will be considered one of the best FA signings of 2018.
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In comment 13862751 bigfrank612 said:
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ThE thing that is the most frustrating isnt the fact that we havent signed anyone yet, its more about us not being linked to anyone. Norwell and Dion Lewis, thats pretty much it. Oh and how can I forget J-Stew...lol Im not getting impatient, and I dont want them to spend big money on ehh players, I just want to see some connections. Oh well.
I really dislike the fact that the guys who they've been linked to are RB's. One guy is 28 coming off a career year, the other guy is 31 with a ton of mileage. Plus, I feel that you should never pay for a RB in FA. How many RB's outperform their 2nd contract? I'd rather address RB with a pair of fresh, healthy legs in the draft. RB's are always at their peak in the first 4 years of their career.
We're not going to draft two RBs - presumably. We need to add depth to the position. I hope Perkins is our fourth RB going into 2018. We just lost two FA RBs in Vereen and Darkwa. We need to add at least one guy in FA either now of after the draft.
I think Lewis will get 5 OR 6 mil a year though. He's garnered a lot of interest so far. I don't like the idea of paying a guy that type of money. 28 years old, injury history, better in an RBBC.
breer
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In comment 13862489 Mr. Nickels said:
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are shopping Fletcher Cox..
Where did you hear this from?
Eagle fan sent me some tweets. I don't think they are asking for a lot either. It is to clear up cap space. Eagles just signed Haloti Ngata too..
An Eagles fan on twitter said Howie will trade Cox for a 3rd and 5th rounder and clear up cap space, and to that Cox responded "And I own (ocean) front property in Arizona"
No apparently. Jonathan Stewart was. Lol
1. The Giants actually won the Norwell sweepstakes. You don't pay a fucking guard 13 million a year. That's absolutely insane. The Jaguars can have him at that ludicrous price.
2. Just because the Chiefs overpaid Sammy Watkins, doesn't mean shit for Beckham. The best WR in football (Antonio Brown) is getting 17m a year. You can STILL expect Beckham in the 18m a year range.
3. Richburg and Kennard were both below average to average. They needed to leave. They were literally just bodies.
4. Today in free agency, for the Giants, will have no impact on what the Giants do with the 2nd pick. You all can talk yourself into whomever you want... Barkley, Nelson... Ect... I'd still bet my left nut the Giants select a QB. Odds are fantastic that NYG won't have a pick this high again in a long time.
5. You don't win championships by winning the 1st day of free agency. There are a shit ton of holes to fill... It's not a one year turn around. Strap in to this marathon.
We're a 3-13 team with average cap space in the loaded NFC. Want to win types aren't drawn here, and cash in types aren't either. We'd want to sign with the Giants because we're fans, but there's not a lot of reason for the top free agents to. We'll be looking at 2nd and 3rd tier signings - but sometimes those are the best signings.
Browns all in on winning. Jets secondary...wow.
So much for Hubbard.
Browns all in on winning. Jets secondary...wow.
So much for Hubbard.
Eh Jets moves are meh considering their cap room
THAT DOESNT MAKE US FEEL BETTER JORDAN!!!
THAT DOESNT MAKE US FEEL BETTER JORDAN!!!
Can you blame him?
He had the choice of going to a team ready to contend in a state with no income tax or he could have come here, to a terrible team in flux that needs to rebuild.
Easy call if it's me. I would have done the same thing.
1. The Giants actually won the Norwell sweepstakes. You don't pay a fucking guard 13 million a year. That's absolutely insane. The Jaguars can have him at that ludicrous price.
What about it is insane? Traditionally guards don't get paid a lot. Over the last few seasons, they do. Are you familiar at all with the top salaries at the position?
Q
What about it is insane? Traditionally guards don't get paid a lot. Over the last few seasons, they do. Are you familiar at all with the top salaries at the position?
Guess the Jets arent going QB round 1
Guess the Jets arent going QB round 1
Bridgewater hasn't played in 2 seasons due to injury. They're not passing on a QB if they can get it done.
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McCown 1 year deal
Guess the Jets arent going QB round 1
Bridgewater hasn't played in 2 seasons due to injury. They're not passing on a QB if they can get it done.
TTH, maybe...but I am not understanding the logic of Teddy B. McCown was having a solid season last year and if he is the bridge to one of the young guys (including a potential draft pick), why even take a one year flyer on Bridgewater?
Bridgewater and McCown can compete for the starting job. Bridgewater needs to show he can still play, so he gets the preseason game opportunity to show for the rest of the league, and there's no reason to just give Josh McCown a job with no competition. He's Josh McCown.
It is very likely that unless they trade up, they will see Darnold, Rosen, Allen all gone by 6. Theres potential Mayfield could go if the Colts decide to trade back. Theres rumors of a couple teams trying to move up ahead of the Jets.
I like Teddy - but even before he was hurt, he was really just some flashes and a lot of mediocre.
I still think NYJ really need to take a QB - but they're going to have to immediately cut ties with Petty or Hackenberg (or both) - they're both awful. They obviously can't carry 5 QB's.
I think they take Nelson or Fitzpatrick at 6, if they stay there. They could start their own Legion of Boom secondary with Johnson, Adams, and Maye or they can take perhaps the best player in the draft after Barkley. They have the $$$ and extra picks in rounds 2 and 3 to markedly improve.
Only in pre-season.
My guess is they've seen absolutely nothing that suggests he's going to be their future and are already pretty much conceding that it was a blown pick.
Petty did play and was horrendous.
If I were them, I'd just cut ties with both right now. Neither has any shot at being a starting caliber QB in this league.
I don't think so. At this point he's a real life Costanza working for the Jets. He just does nothing but they won't fire him.
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Hackenberg ever even play? The Jets situation at QB is a prime example of why the Giants should draft a QB at 2.
I don't think so. At this point he's a real life Costanza working for the Jets. He just does nothing but they won't fire him.
Hahahaha that had me crying.
Bridgewater and McCown can compete for the starting job. Bridgewater needs to show he can still play, so he gets the preseason game opportunity to show for the rest of the league, and there's no reason to just give Josh McCown a job with no competition. He's Josh McCown.
Except that the Jets assured Josh that he is the starter. It was a requirement of his before signing.
Josh the Starter - ( New Window )
I know, right? I couldn't believe it either. He demands to be the starter but settles for $10M/yr when the going rate for starters is well north of that. He is a shrewd negotiator.
Please God make it happen...
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To Scott Zolaks Twitter (NE reporter) Giants are in huge for Solder, 13-14 mil
Please God make it happen...
I'd be fine with that. Need a Left Tackle in this league.
Luckily he has no good sources. That would be a disgusting overpay
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To Scott Zolaks Twitter (NE reporter) Giants are in huge for Solder, 13-14 mil
Luckily he has no good sources. That would be a disgusting overpay
How is that an over pay? That's what LTs especially top ten LTs in football get....
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In comment 13863501 cokeduplt said:
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To Scott Zolaks Twitter (NE reporter) Giants are in huge for Solder, 13-14 mil
Luckily he has no good sources. That would be a disgusting overpay
How is that an over pay? That's what LTs especially top ten LTs in football get....
I dont really know who he is just stumbled across it. Id be fine with it though. Big upgrade
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In comment 13863501 cokeduplt said:
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To Scott Zolaks Twitter (NE reporter) Giants are in huge for Solder, 13-14 mil
Luckily he has no good sources. That would be a disgusting overpay
How is that an over pay? That's what LTs especially top ten LTs in football get....
Because i dont think hes that good. $13M, and how much better is he than Flowers? Not much to warrant that kind of money unless they are confident Flowers can move spots easily but I dont have faith in that. Dude is dumb as rocks
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In comment 13863530 BigBlue4You09 said:
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In comment 13863501 cokeduplt said:
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To Scott Zolaks Twitter (NE reporter) Giants are in huge for Solder, 13-14 mil
Luckily he has no good sources. That would be a disgusting overpay
How is that an over pay? That's what LTs especially top ten LTs in football get....
Because i dont think hes that good. $13M, and how much better is he than Flowers? Not much to warrant that kind of money unless they are confident Flowers can move spots easily but I dont have faith in that. Dude is dumb as rocks
I don't doubt he is dumb as rocks but solder is a very solid LT a top ten in football and flowers is prob around 25-32 lol
It's a huge upgrade plus if flowers works out as a RT you could improve two positions...flowers clearly isn't a LT and do we really want a rookie or flowers to protect the blindside of our immobile QB?
It would solve a harder position to fix then guard.
Those who cant tackle in the NFL...guard. Shoot watch flowers become a dominant guard. Pugh was a mediocre tackle as well and did decent at guard. Norwell would prob suck at tackle too. Its a hard position to be good at.
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In comment 13863539 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 13863530 BigBlue4You09 said:
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In comment 13863501 cokeduplt said:
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To Scott Zolaks Twitter (NE reporter) Giants are in huge for Solder, 13-14 mil
Luckily he has no good sources. That would be a disgusting overpay
How is that an over pay? That's what LTs especially top ten LTs in football get....
I don't doubt he is dumb as rocks but solder is a very solid LT a top ten in football and flowers is prob around 25-32 lol
Solder is not top 10. Hes more 15-25, 13 mil a year would def be an overpay
Ergo. Our best tackle. Not saying much given who we had. And not as solid at guard as we pretended at the time. Oh the pontificating this time last year about "the boss says flowers is the olt and he knows better."
Each player is totally different from the next. Assuming a mediocre tackle makes a better guard ... it's not always the case.
Some crap guards make good Tackles.
Some OK Tackles make terrible guards.
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In comment 13863563 BigBlue4You09 said:
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In comment 13863539 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 13863530 BigBlue4You09 said:
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In comment 13863501 cokeduplt said:
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To Scott Zolaks Twitter (NE reporter) Giants are in huge for Solder, 13-14 mil
Luckily he has no good sources. That would be a disgusting overpay
How is that an over pay? That's what LTs especially top ten LTs in football get....
I don't doubt he is dumb as rocks but solder is a very solid LT a top ten in football and flowers is prob around 25-32 lol
Solder is not top 10. Hes more 15-25, 13 mil a year would def be an overpay
Can we name the 14 guys better? I don't think he is average at all
Low supply raises the price.
Such as now. It's lucky for the
Player. Good for him. Its a bit of a lottery for him. Great. Get over it ...this trying to say that there may be just as good of an olt on another team making less. So what?
That's irrelevant to the market BC those players aren't IN the market .
you keep hearing that guys coming out of college on the OL arent ready to start.. and then you cry about how much starters are getting paid??
I both love and hate this time of year on BBI..
All this sleep should do him good.
After thoughtful consideration, I have decided to stay in New England. This place has always been my home and always will be. #NoPlaceLikeHome
you keep hearing that guys coming out of college on the OL arent ready to start.. and then you cry about how much starters are getting paid??
I both love and hate this time of year on BBI..
Solder is not top 10. Hes more 15-25, 13 mil a year would def be an overpay
Can we name the 14 guys better? I don't think he is average at all
Thomas
Armstead
Brown
Okung
Staley
Decker
Peters
Whitworth
Williams
Smith
Bakhtiari
Penn
Glenn
Stanley
Matthews
Yep. Hyde is young and they are paying $$ for him. They will go QB at #1 if this deal goes through. I could see the Brown going Darnold and Nelson for example.
The bigger factor is probably the Bills looming in a trade up to #3. They can't afford to pass on QB only to see 2 fall off the board after their pick.
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Barkley is ours
Yep. Hyde is young and they are paying $$ for him. They will go QB at #1 if this deal goes through. I could see the Brown going Darnold and Nelson for example.
For what its worth, a few weeks ago when I heard Cleveland was going for Hyde (I shared that with you guys in one of these threads) it was partially tied to Cleveland taking Darnold at 1.
The bigger factor is probably the Bills looming in a trade up to #3. They can't afford to pass on QB only to see 2 fall off the board after their pick.
Exactly. They go Darnold, Giants Rosen, Colts trade the pick to the Bills who take Arnold, and the Browns end up with Barkley at 4.
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Ravens Center and UFA Ryan Jensen has plans to make two different free agent visits this week: Tampa Bay and Indianapolis.
7.5 million per season. That makes me feel much better about spending 13-14 per season on Solder. I like Fulton but I thought he would be in the 2-3 million range. That is a lot of money to give to a decent starter.
today should be better than yesterdays token vet RB result
today should be better than yesterdays token vet RB result
What have you heard about who they are interested? Any news on Mewhort, Sullivan, Fleming, Sitton, Spain?
today should be better than yesterdays token vet RB result
Did the Giants make an offer there?
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leaves solider-
today should be better than yesterdays token vet RB result
Did the Giants make an offer there?
not sure on that offer, but we just got our better news.
Let's keep the ball rolling and sign a couple more hog mollies and go get Barkley!
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Solder will start at RT - Jerry Reese.
He'll compete with Flowers in camp.
too funny guys!!! but oh so true.
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In comment 13863613 nyballa0891
Solder is not top 10. Hes more 15-25, 13 mil a year would def be an overpay
Can we name the 14 guys better? I don't think he is average at all
Thomas
Armstead
Brown
Okung
Staley
Decker
Peters
Whitworth
Williams
Smith
Bakhtiari
Penn
Glenn
Stanley
Matthews
This is very subjective, but the scouts and talent evaluators say otherwise. And the market is set for upper end LT that are available. Most of those guys on the list arent.
Definitley better than Brown, Penn, and Glenn IMO
It is most definitely subjective. Im not saying Solder is a bad player, but you cannot objectively say that hes better than ALOT of the guys on the list. At least 8 are CLEARLY better
Solder around 15 mil, Jones at 2.9 mil, Stewart 2-3mil, Martin ? but I'd guess at least 3-4 mil.
So- there HAS to be some cuts/re-structures coming today so that the Giants are compliant with the cap.
Marshall, Harris, Armstrong, possibly Jerry, and a re-structure for Ogletree all possibilities.
Solder around 15 mil, Jones at 2.9 mil, Stewart 2-3mil, Martin ? but I'd guess at least 3-4 mil.
So- there HAS to be some cuts/re-structures coming today so that the Giants are compliant with the cap.
Marshall, Harris, Armstrong, possibly Jerry, and a re-structure for Ogletree all possibilities.
How is 18 mill not compliant?
Solder around 15 mil, Jones at 2.9 mil, Stewart 2-3mil, Martin ? but I'd guess at least 3-4 mil.
So- there HAS to be some cuts/re-structures coming today so that the Giants are compliant with the cap.
Marshall, Harris, Armstrong, possibly Jerry, and a re-structure for Ogletree all possibilities.
You don't know what the cap hits are until you see the contracts. It is too early to know if Solder is $15 million this year or if they pushed out some of it to next year or later.
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but the Giants have 18mil in cap right now.
Solder around 15 mil, Jones at 2.9 mil, Stewart 2-3mil, Martin ? but I'd guess at least 3-4 mil.
So- there HAS to be some cuts/re-structures coming today so that the Giants are compliant with the cap.
Marshall, Harris, Armstrong, possibly Jerry, and a re-structure for Ogletree all possibilities.
How is 18 mill not compliant?
yea, the numbers wont be known until we know contract structure. IF the giants werent under after all those deals, you would have seen harris or marshall cut....we are clearly under the cap even with those signings...
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but the Giants have 18mil in cap right now.
Solder around 15 mil, Jones at 2.9 mil, Stewart 2-3mil, Martin ? but I'd guess at least 3-4 mil.
So- there HAS to be some cuts/re-structures coming today so that the Giants are compliant with the cap.
Marshall, Harris, Armstrong, possibly Jerry, and a re-structure for Ogletree all possibilities.
How is 18 mill not compliant?
What I am saying is that the Giants only had 18 mil, and they have yet to factor in these signings. Even if the contracts are backloaded or whatever, there is still a great chance that there isn't enough cap to fit all 3 of them.
Cleveland beat thinks Browns' pursuit of Solder means Joe Thomas is in fact retiring. And that announcement could come today.
Joe Thomas done? - ( New Window )
might be best one left out there.
might be best one left out there.
Guessing this may refer to Joeckel??
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if the giants are able to sign a guy from the team that stole their guard in FA.... to play guard.
might be best one left out there.
Guessing this may refer to Joeckel??
No I think he means... Brandon Fusco
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In comment 13864992 hitdog42 said:
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if the giants are able to sign a guy from the team that stole their guard in FA.... to play guard.
might be best one left out there.
Guessing this may refer to Joeckel??
No I think he means... Brandon Fusco
That makes sense. I read it differently.
This is the discussion thread!
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avoiding discussion on the "News Only" thread?
This is the discussion thread!
I know. I'm not going to put a non-news post in the "News Only" thread.