QB musings....Ball velocity (Mayfield) and Accuracy (Rosen)

about the quality of rosters between the mid-late 90's Gators and Tennessee. Yes, Tennessee had NFL players. Florida had future NFL Pro Bowlers on both sides of the ball. They had 5 or 6 future NFL starters just on defense...at minimum. They won the National Championship while Peyton was at UT and was a threat to do so every year. I don't know why you would obsess over him not beating one of the great powerhouse teams of the 1990's...they were an elite program that was killing recruiting during that time period...a better program than UT. It's strange because Peyton won big games. Including an SEC championship while he was there and 3 of 4 bowl games...but you have to play in a bowl game to win one. Rosen lost almost every big game he's played in. To say Rosen is not as good a prospect as Peyton Manning is not a knock on Rosen. There's been exactly ONE guy since Peyton Manning enter the NFL as highly regarded a QB prospect as Peyton. ONE. That's Andrew Luck. This has nothing to do with Peyton's career, it's objectively looking at how good Peyton Manning was as a prospect. To say that Rosen is on that level is to say he's a better QB prospect than every other QB except for Luck since Peyton, and he's (arguably) not even the best in his own draft class. We're talking a fantasy-land, fairy tale comparison, re-write of Rosen's college career. It's unfettered BS, and would be hilarious if I didn't know you were serious.

In comment 13862650 allstarjim said:

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And yes, he has a good mind, and yes, Milton has waxed poetic about him in just about every way. I expect that. I get he's smart. But we are talking about onfield IQ and decision making. But look, I am working on something that will probably take the shine off. Probably will be done on Thursday. This is onfield analysis...the hype is exceeding what he has displayed on the field as a QB. Mayock has said the same thing about questioning some of his decision making and his deep accuracy has been questioned (I question this as well, I don't think it's very good, and there is plenty of tape to support this assertion).

I'm always a bit leery of decision making analysis because we really don't know the play, the progressions, and if the receivers ran the right routes. College teams don't practice nearly as much as the pros so there is a higher # of missed assignments...

Manning played with he following players who made the Pro Bowl team

Travis Henry, RB
Jamal Lewis, RB
Chad Clifton, OL
Shaun Ellis, DL
Leonard Little, DL/LB
Terry Fair, ST/KOR
Al Wilson, LB

You really need to think before you write on this stuff...

Over 4 years?

In comment 13863628 allstarjim said:

Quote:

Over 4 years?

Do you want me to list all the NFL starters that Manning played with? Because that’s a large number. Players drafted? Because that’s an even larger number.

Again, these are JUST pro bowl players.

Do you want me to list the Gator Pro Bowl players from that era next? Just give me the nod...

Florida had three players drafted who eventually became pro bowl players...

Jevon Kearse
Kevin Carter
Fred Taylor

Do want to go high school All Americans next?

How many UT got versus UF during the Manning era?

Drafted players came out of UF during the Manning years vs how many Peyton played with?

In comment 13863693 allstarjim said:

Quote:

Drafted players came out of UF during the Manning years vs how many Peyton played with?

It’s really close, so grant me +/- 3 margin of error...

31 UT players were drafted that played with Manning
30 UF players were drafted that played during the Manning era

So it’s basically a draw.

I’m not sure how old you are, but some perspective. Philip Fuller was a GREAT recruiter. UT had the #1 ranked classes by Tom Lemming in 1994 and 1997. Obviously Spurrier was good too, consistently in the top 10. But Spurrier was a far better Xs and Os guy then Fulmer. His system was ahead of its time. And more often than not, his offensive players in particular didn’t perform as well in the pros. It’s a pretty interesting list of QBs, WRs, and RBs who were great at UF but ordinary in the NFL. Our own Ike Hilliard, for example, was really the only WR who was consistently solid...

In comment 13863925 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 13863693 allstarjim said: Quote: Drafted players came out of UF during the Manning years vs how many Peyton played with? It’s really close, so grant me +/- 3 margin of error... 31 UT players were drafted that played with Manning 30 UF players were drafted that played during the Manning era So it’s basically a draw. I’m not sure how old you are, but some perspective. Philip Fuller was a GREAT recruiter. UT had the #1 ranked classes by Tom Lemming in 1994 and 1997. Obviously Spurrier was good too, consistently in the top 10. But Spurrier was a far better Xs and Os guy then Fulmer. His system was ahead of its time. And more often than not, his offensive players in particular didn’t perform as well in the pros. It’s a pretty interesting list of QBs, WRs, and RBs who were great at UF but ordinary in the NFL. Our own Ike Hilliard, for example, was really the only WR who was consistently solid...

I'm 41, was big into college football at the time (moreso then than even now), and remember thinking that UT never really had a chance against UF. UT had a great QB, but UF had a much more complete team. Also live/lived in Florida, so followed UF and FSU pretty closely, and that might also cause me to be biased. I am not a Gator fan, however, I'm a Seminoles guy. But seen a lot of them both over the decades.

I don't want to take the time to double check your work, but I think your numbers are off. I think UF had more draft picks. I do concede I could be wrong on this point, but my perception was always that UF was a much better team. I have good friends that are huge UT fans and at the time my friends and I would always give them grief.

I'm sure you meant Fulmer, not Fuller.

45....extending it out to 2001 includes players who were freshman in 1997, Peyton's senior season. Of those 45:

-7 first round picks
-11 second round picks
-6 third round picks

36

-11 first round picks (Ike Hilliard!)
-3 second round picks
-6 third round picks
Link - ( New Window )

here it is again
Link - ( New Window )

thanks for posting, perhaps I was wrong about Tennessee's program, and I'll take your word for it because I have no desire to actually research that myself.

I still don't think that is relevant at all to the discussion of Peyton as a prospect. The fact is that UF still had one of the best programs in the country at the time, and not defeating them for 4 years wasn't a huge red flag on Peyton as a prospect. He was still regarded as a top QB prospect over multiple drafts and his status as a prospect has only been rivaled by Andrew Luck since.

It really doesn't change the conversation re: Rosen as a prospect compared to Manning, still a silly comparison. Rosen hasn't defeated several teams during his more abridged collegiate career but nobody is flagging him for it, except to say that he wasn't won enough generally (a statement I think IS a red flag with him). For example, Rosen didn't beat USC or Stanford in his career, going 0-5 against them. But I don't see that brought up as a ding on him as a prospect. Peyton went 39-6 as a starter, an .846 winning percentage, which is good. Rosen with a .566 winning percentage. Again, not the most important or only criteria of evaluation but it's a part of it. Peyton never missed a game at Tennessee. Peyton had better career completion percentage numbers. There were no questions as to Peyton's leadership. Every one of these are differentiation points with Manning and Rosen and there are others. So the totality of the argument of Rosen being similar to Manning really seems to be that they are both similar in stature, have about the same ability as a runner, and both very proficient in there throwing mechanics. I think you can't say that they are close to being equals as prospects because the evaluation doesn't stop there. Rosen isn't nearly as accurate as Peyton was, for example, particularly when it comes to deep accuracy.

And again, Rosen is kind of a one-year wonder. You can't really rely on his 2016 numbers, which were decent, because he only played 6 games, and his 2015 numbers were good, not great.

Anyway, as I said I am working on a little pre-draft project that will dive deeper into the kind of competitor and intangibles that Rosen has, and will post soon. I think it will be of interest and I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible.