Schefter: Norwell to sign with Jacksonville

In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 13861187 PatersonPlank said: Quote: There are 5 spots on the OL, and G is 2 of them. Its important. This contract and the high drafting of Nelson shows that. Its important for the running game, its important to keep the interior line out of the QB's face (in fact it may be more important that T for this), and look how many times the DL stunted and our G's missed picking up the DE? Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others. I'd rather have solid Guard play at less than half that cost and spend big on premium players at premium positions. I'm not upset we didn't get Norwell. Time to move on and get creative, which I trust DG will be able to do a hell of a lot better than Reese was.

I am upset. Fixing the oline with quality probowl players is what this team needed for 1)an aged qb trying to make a last run and 2)a rookie qb who needs a solid oline to gain confidence and develop quickly.

Taking Nelson at 2 is a desperation move. I like Nelson but not at 2.

Right now it looks like more of the same. I hope the giants don't try to put a band aid on a gaping hole.

In comment 13861105 The_Boss said:

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FA strategy and they there was no mention of other guys at any other position, offense or defense. I’m sure he and Shurmur are absolutely crushed this AM. Where/how do they go to fix this OL? It seems they’re kindda fucked.

If gettleman can't multitask and have backup plans it will be a short stint as the GM of this team. I hope to god this isn't true...but seeing it was stapeton who said Norwell was down to 3 teams and he signed with non of those 3 teams...I will believe we do have other FA strategies.

Fleming Sweepstakes.

Anybody have thoughts on Zach Fulton?

I am disappointed but now you can spread that money out...

Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line

In comment 13861217 JonC said:

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This is an area where JR et al were demonstrably not good enough.

There is an assumption though, that there are hidden gems. Are there always hidden gems? It's possible, maybe even probable, that no matter how smart and resourceful you are, you're plowing a barren field.

In comment 13861218 superspynyg said:

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In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said: Quote: In comment 13861187 PatersonPlank said: Quote: There are 5 spots on the OL, and G is 2 of them. Its important. This contract and the high drafting of Nelson shows that. Its important for the running game, its important to keep the interior line out of the QB's face (in fact it may be more important that T for this), and look how many times the DL stunted and our G's missed picking up the DE? Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others. I'd rather have solid Guard play at less than half that cost and spend big on premium players at premium positions. I'm not upset we didn't get Norwell. Time to move on and get creative, which I trust DG will be able to do a hell of a lot better than Reese was. I am upset. Fixing the oline with quality probowl players is what this team needed for 1)an aged qb trying to make a last run and 2)a rookie qb who needs a solid oline to gain confidence and develop quickly. Taking Nelson at 2 is a desperation move. I like Nelson but not at 2. Right now it looks like more of the same. I hope the giants don't try to put a band aid on a gaping hole.

There's a life lesson here about not getting your hopes up. They invariably are dashed.

In comment 13861222 nygiants16 said:

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I am disappointed but now you can spread that money out... Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line

It would have gone a lot quicker if we added a pro bowl LG. Now we have to draft oline and HOPE they develop into good players.

Of course it doesn't mean fixing everything. I never said that. What I am talking about is the teams strategy for returning itself to prominence. Attacking that with the mindset that the goal is to "win-now" rather than building progressively with an eye on the future would be foolish. There have fixed limited resources in terms of cap space, draft picks, and leveragable roster personnel. Some things will get done, but solutions for many will be longer term.

. could use a tackle and the draft seems more guard rich than tackle rich.

In comment 13861223 Bill L said:

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In comment 13861217 JonC said: Quote: This is an area where JR et al were demonstrably not good enough. There is an assumption though, that there are hidden gems. Are there always hidden gems? It's possible, maybe even probable, that no matter how smart and resourceful you are, you're plowing a barren field.

They might not even be hidden gems, they might be crusty veteran stopgaps who have a good run left in them (eg, Lomas and Parker in 2000) to get through 2018.

Not ideal, but perhaps a better option than another season of Jerry, Flowers possibly playing not at his best spot, a midget C who's probably best suited to backup, etc.

Let's see if any other UFAs get a look.

= 6.65 million over course of contract

That's the approx difference in taxes between FL and NJ.

That's based on 9% NJ state income tax for income over 500K plus extra 1 % property tax.

Not only does FL have no income tax, cost of homes and living is much more reasonable.

In Jax beach or Ponte Vedra, he can get a beautiful mansion on the beach (within about 20 min of the stadium) and still be set for life if he never gets another contract.

Not to mention the weather.

I don't think this has anything to do with the QB.

is that we always come up with excuses as why it's not just money. There's a per-exisitng relationship with the GM or coach or whoever, he used to live down the street from the stadium, he's always been a Yankee fan and has always wanted to play for the Yankees (I hear this a lot a couple years before a guy hits FA), he wants to go to a winning franchise, he wants to be in a big market with commercial opportunities...

The reality is, it's always money. Not only that, it's *only* money.

In comment 13861228 superspynyg said:

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In comment 13861222 nygiants16 said: Quote: I am disappointed but now you can spread that money out... Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line It would have gone a lot quicker if we added a pro bowl LG. Now we have to draft oline and HOPE they develop into good players.

Absolutely, getting norwell would of been a great get, but using all that money on one position would of also hampered them..

Wrong again.

he got paid, but I didn't want him at that price. Next. I also don't want Pugh at the price he's going to command.

As others have said, DG has a good record of finding OL talent.

And no, this doesn't impact what we do in the draft.

In comment 13861228 superspynyg said:

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In comment 13861222 nygiants16 said: Quote: I am disappointed but now you can spread that money out... Unlike Reese have to hit on oline draft picks, the key to rebuilding the line It would have gone a lot quicker if we added a pro bowl LG. Now we have to draft oline and HOPE they develop into good players.

Short-sighted. Its like your looking for the lottery ticket to winning the superbowl on the first day of free agency...

Do they play by the same rules down there? I feel like they have unlimited cap space.

Every year they take on a huge FA contract. Campbell and Buoye last year, plus they added Marcell Dareus and his huge contract in a trade, and they re-signed Bortles and Telvin Smith.

Every day it's more and more curious to me why the Giants feel like they can improve quickly enough to compete with Manning as QB.

First of all, when DG brought in Seubert and O’hara, were they big names? No. Also, with the crap coaching, a horrible OL, no running game to speak of, we actually had the lead for 3 games in a row in the 4 th quarter at the beginning of the year. Also, some young signings who are not big names along with a stop gop or 2 can produce a functioning offensive line. Combined with far superior coaching we can be competitive very quickly. We should focus on D as well. We have an outstanding coordinator. Give him some pieces and our D can be good. I have been negative for years as I thought the front office and coaching have stunk. DG is smart and a great evaluator of talent . We have also significantly upgraded our coaching. Also, the nfl is more college like than ever. Very few players are with a team 4 years or more. Good teams reinvent themselves all the time . We can do the same. Stop with rebuilding BS. Well run teams are constantly rebuilding while they win.

In comment 13861006 Brown Recluse said:

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.

I would if I were TC.

In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said:

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Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others.

The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality.

that if he went to Jacksonville for 13M, the Giants offered just as much. It would have had to have been really crazy for him to go to us. I'm alright with it.

In comment 13861265 ryanmkeane said:

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that if he went to Jacksonville for 13M, the Giants offered just as much. It would have had to have been really crazy for him to go to us. I'm alright with it.

I'm not one to complain but the fact that Florida doesn't have an income tax really makes free-agency an uneven playing field

In comment 13861256 christian said:

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Every day it's more and more curious to me why the Giants feel like they can improve quickly enough to compete with Manning as QB.

Free agency will have a big hand in how they draft..........

Giants will turn their attention to Steeler OL Chris Hubbard. He's versatile and good.

U nailed it last nite DG needs to keep his mouth shut till the player is signed

In comment 13861264 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said: Quote: Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others. The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality.

Totally agree. You can't expect quality if you keep shopping at Goodwill

but maybe this means it's not crazy to draft Nelson at 2?

I don't know, but interior OL that hit the open market do not come cheap.

from the Jaguars. There comes a point when you have to let go and move on.

and similar vets.

he started 6 games for Marcus Gilbert and outplayed him

In comment 13861145 Josiah31 said:

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Just sign Mckinnion, so we can all get off the Barkley train, and either trade our pick down a few spots and select Nelson, or just draft him at 2. Kill two birds with one stone.

That actually sounds more like using two stones to kill one bird.

I expect Gettleman will move on and add at least a couple vets. Plus an early round pick. They will upgrade the OL.

What exactly were some of you hoping for? He's an All Pro free agent, last year's top guard got 12.5/yr and every outlet on the planet estimated 13-14/yr.

This kinda sucks, swing and a miss here. I saw Norwell as the only safe FA building block. Not much left out there.
Solder is a super risky play. Bridge is probably burned with Pugh and he's even riskier. DG and his staff should be looking at stop gaps and the under the radar guys at this point.

In comment 13861264 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said: Quote: Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others. The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality.

And that doesn't mean you should pay it. I really don't care what the market says to be honest. Let other teams blow their loads and over pay at positions you don't deem worthy. If we can get a couple serviceable Guards you are going to see a huge difference anyway, not to mention the additional cap space to spend elsewhere.

Cousins is going to get $30 million a year because the market dictates it. I think we all know how that one will go down.

In comment 13861277 big canoe jeff said:

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U nailed it last nite DG needs to keep his mouth shut till the player is signed

I must have missed the quotes of gentleman saying they were signing norwell?

In comment 13861298 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13861277 big canoe jeff said: Quote: U nailed it last nite DG needs to keep his mouth shut till the player is signed I must have missed the quotes of gentleman saying they were signing norwell?

Yeah I missed those too. Anybody have a link? ;-)

That's where the FA focus should be. We need to find a starter.

Interior will most likely be plugged via the draft with one or 2 starters taken in the first few rounds.

In comment 13861296 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 13861264 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 13861201 UConn4523 said: Quote: Of course its important, but how important is what's being debated. Its a far less valuable and premium position than others. The market is telling you what it thinks of the value of the position. It's now been three free agency years in a row of Guards being premium pay positions. I think we need to face that reality. And that doesn't mean you should pay it. I really don't care what the market says to be honest. Let other teams blow their loads and over pay at positions you don't deem worthy. If we can get a couple serviceable Guards you are going to see a huge difference anyway, not to mention the additional cap space to spend elsewhere. Cousins is going to get $30 million a year because the market dictates it. I think we all know how that one will go down.

Contracts around the league are all generally derivative of each other. The first guy at a position to sign sets the dimensions of the contract of the next guy to sign. You don't have to care what the rest of the league is doing, but it's going to affect you whether you like it or not. Whether you sign free agents or try to keep your own players.


Cousins is a different animal. A legitimate top guard wants fair money for his ability level based on previous contracts. Kirk Cousins wants top QB money for midlevel talent.

with a contrarian take no matter what the subject is.

Beat writers have gotten almost any move the Giants have made or didn't make wrong, yet now that Norwell signs elsewhere it is due to loose lips?

Can't make this shit up.

In comment 13861229 UberAlias said:

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Of course it doesn't mean fixing everything. I never said that. What I am talking about is the teams strategy for returning itself to prominence. Attacking that with the mindset that the goal is to "win-now" rather than building progressively with an eye on the future would be foolish. There have fixed limited resources in terms of cap space, draft picks, and leveragable roster personnel. Some things will get done, but solutions for many will be longer term.

Maybe I've not had enough coffee, but your point is confusing to me. You said this, which is what I keyed on:

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Yes, it can happen. But when you look at the number of deficiencies this team has and lack of resources to turn around a quick fix, how would anyone rationally EXPECT it? Maybe they will hit on a lot of late picks and the turnaround will happen quicker, but having that as the expectation is not at all realistic

I don't think anyone has expected these deficiencies to be fixed with long term solutions in one offseason...and I didn't see the attempt to sign Norwell as a part of a larger plan to go after the best players to fix holes. To me it was a statement signing, that the offensive line is going to be a priority going forward.

You mentioned that it was astonishing to to see so many fans expect everything to be fixed immediately. Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen that notion on here much. And I don't agree thats possible. You also mentioned "win now" mode. I don't know if its a mode, but I definitely think its possible and realistic for the team to win again next season and carry that forward if they are smart about what they do.

In comment 13861308 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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with a contrarian take no matter what the subject is. Beat writers have gotten almost any move the Giants have made or didn't make wrong, yet now that Norwell signs elsewhere it is due to loose lips? Can't make this shit up.

Didn't you know that no one wanted Norwell until they heard the Giants were interested?

we won't agree, that's fine. But missing out on the big ticket FA Guard doesn't mean anything until we see how the rest shakes out. There's many ways to improve and we will have to wait and see.

now thats what an overpaid player looks like.

In comment 13861283 JonC said:

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and similar vets.

Agreed.

In comment 13861322 sundayatone said:

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now thats what an overpaid player looks like.

Yo mad

it had been at least 30 minutes since he chimed in with an Eli insult.

Alarm must've gone off!!

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eli to get another 5 mill direct deposit this week sundayatone : 9:28 am : link : reply now thats what an overpaid player looks like.

In comment 13860982 eclipz928 said:

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in Florida...

What happened in the end on the latest tax legislation that eliminated deducting state taxes?

Let me clarify. What I am objecting to is the "win-now" mentality we've been seeing a lot of around here. There is a contingent pushing the idea that the team is or should be pushing their chips onto the table in effort to win one more with Eli. I'm not saying that should not be a goal, because your goal should be to win a superbowl every year and anything can happen. But this notion should absolutely not be shaping the teams approach to the draft and FA, because the reality is the roster is a long ways away and they are not resource wealthy.

But from far I'd rather not pay the G that much more given there seems solid but not bank-breaking alternatives. Sy mentions Spain from TN and Hubbard of course. Or Nelson in the draft depending how that shakes out. That's 3 just off the top too

My question is, does AN justify 13.3 in production / play vs the comparable production & more modest $ those others might fetch? Is he really the best G (not just on the FA market)? It was an option but I would not have been so enamored with it to consider this an 'L' for not landing him. There are many ways to skin a cat, and looking at OL as a unit this doesn't even seem like it's necessarily the best one given its multiple needs