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We either trust these guys or we don't

LG in NYC : 3/13/2018 10:51 am
I see a lot of angst and hand-wringing over individual moves and non-moves.

People get too attached to a single player, or the idea of a move and then when it doesn't happen they act like all hope is lost.

In case you missed it we have a new GM and a new HC, and an almost entirely new coaching staff. None of us (incl the beat writers) are in the room with these guys as they are planning and strategizing... so though we may pretend we know, we really do not know what the plan is, or what the time frame for building this team back up.

we have ALOT of work to do to be a decent team again, and it isn't likely to happen in 1 off season.

For my money, we have good smart people in charge and I am ready to let them put their imprint on this team over the next couple of seasons. All I ask of them is that they pull in the same direction and stay committed to their vision.

so perhaps the collective 'we' should sit back and watch this unfold, discuss individual moves as they happen but let's not start planning the success or the demise of 2018/19 season just yet. There is still a long road in front of us.
LG I'm With You  
Giants1956 : 3/13/2018 10:54 am : link
We got good people. Let them do 'this'


Agreed LG  
djstat : 3/13/2018 10:56 am : link
They have a plan. Let's see what happens. Generally the off season Champions never win a Super Bowl so it makes sense the Browns are currently on their way to an off season championship. The negativity on this board about NYG is disgusting.

I am excited to see what Shurmer and DG do.
I don't know if we have good and smart people in charge.  
Brown Recluse : 3/13/2018 10:59 am : link
Not yet anyway. Thats something that will reveal itself over the course of this offseason.

I like Gettleman. Right now. We'll see what happens.
I applaud DG for not  
DonnieD89 : 3/13/2018 11:08 am : link
Breaking the bank for Norwell, especially for an OG. We need to get a CB and OT, if getting Solder at a decent price.
Absoultely  
SirYesSir : 3/13/2018 11:26 am : link
I wanted Norwell, and I'm sure DG did also. That doesn't mean you sign him no matter what. There will be opportunities down the road, so keep the cap healthy and start building
Absolutely LG  
Emil : 3/13/2018 11:38 am : link
I don't think Gettleman would have entered this month with out a plan, and multiple plans in case of contingency.
i'd trust  
djm : 3/13/2018 11:39 am : link
Inspector Clouseau coaching this team over McAdoo.
agreed LG  
Victor in CT : 3/13/2018 11:40 am : link
and good one djm
No idea if they know what they're doing.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 11:42 am : link
It's all just benefit of the doubt.

Team has been bad for too long to trust without question.
Way too early to make a judgement yet  
Dan Blue : 3/13/2018 11:45 am : link
We're only a few hours into FA and it's impossible to tell much of anything yet. I don't look for us to break the bank on any FA's this year. We should be able to make a much better evaluation on the management team after the draft. I'm excited to see what happens.
Trust is earned  
Reb8thVA : 3/13/2018 12:28 pm : link
until then question authority
I trust Dave  
Joey in VA : 3/13/2018 12:32 pm : link
I really do. Perhaps I'm an idiot but our FA hits in the off season and in season were usually very very good when he ran pro personnel. I still point to his departure as the final blow to this front office that sent this team into a crap hole. I trust his ability to identify talent and let's not kid ourselves, this is a bad bad roster.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/13/2018 12:34 pm : link
Yeah, I gotta think these guys are smart enough to have a plan. I'm hoping for the best. It's nice to see certain positions being emphasized again under Gettleman, i.e OL & LB.
I agree with Joey..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 12:35 pm : link
on the timing of DG and specific positions going into the crapper, especially OL when he left here. And he took the Carolina OL from a weakness to a strength, so we have that dynamic.

I disagree that this is a bad, bad roster, but we are terrible at a couple of places - OL and LB, both which seem to be a focus of DG.

Luckily, in his career, he's found a few very good players at each of those positions.
I mean I don't have an opinion on DG  
Essex : 3/13/2018 12:36 pm : link
one way or the other or trust him or not trust him. Time will tell if he earns the trust of the fans. I don't trust John Mara, that I can tell you and if Mara and DG think that this roster can be salvaged through FA and the draft, then I think they are wrong. So, I like this morning so far and think we are doing the right things, but other posters keep saying they think ownership and DG think this is a roster that can be salvaged. I also think if DG doesn't draft a QB in this draft it would be a gigantic error, one that could likely define his tenure, which I would predict to be short if he drafts someone like Barkley. So, the whole trust thing is something earned. And, so far as I said, I like what I see, which is NOT investing in this roster.
Different MO with this Regime  
varco : 3/13/2018 12:39 pm : link
In contrast to the Reese group, this regime seems to operate close to the vest and does not telegraph moves to the press or other teams. It could very well be that the "indications of interest" are speculations by beat writers and / or agents to either drum up readership or drive up contract prices. It also could be that DG and company put out some disinformation as well. Somehow, I would like to believe that DG and company have a cost effective plan (given the constraints of the cap), which will come to pass when contracts are actually signed. Therefore, I personally don't pay much attention to writers' speculations and temper my enthusiasm until the i's are dotted and t's crossed.
I don't know if I trust them or not  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 12:39 pm : link
I like Gettleman, but it's not just him. Mara has made some questionable choices these past couple years.
I think Gettleman was the right hire......  
Reb8thVA : 3/13/2018 12:47 pm : link
its just that six years of lousy football and a beginning of FA that maybe is not turning out how we would like has a way of hitting a raw nerve.
I don't know Fats. Are they strong at DE? What if Snacks or  
Victor in CT : 3/13/2018 12:47 pm : link
Tomlinson get hurt at DT? LB better with Ogletree, but still thin and injury prone. Collins and who at FS? If Cockrell doesn't re-sign at CB, Apple stays an asshole, Jenkins becomes disinterested again, then what? WR OBJ great if he's focused, Shepard okay, but who else? RBs avg. The only spot where they are deep in quality and quantity right now is TE. Hell they don't even have a punter and the PK is awful. And the OL? UGH!

I hope and pray to proven 1000% wrong, but I'd be surpised if this is not another losing season. Best I'm hoping for it that DG and Shurmur re-establish some order in the clubhouse and identity on the field.
If ownership stays..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 12:48 pm : link
out of a lot of the decision making, DG has had a heck of a record of building teams. He had a lot of say in the evaluation of players when he was here the first time, and it was the only time we signed legitimate OL, in a variety of different ways - draft, FA, UDFA.

Then he went to Carolina and cleaned up a salary cap mess, successfully purged high priced vets and retooled through the draft and key FA's. And they went to the SB without Steve Smith or Williams.

He was fired for trying to decide how to handle the future of then 30-year old Greg olsen and the 32 year old Thomas Davis. And his decision to not resign a then 28 year old Josh Norman looks pretty good in retrospect.

He was fired by basically telling Jerry Richardson to let him do his job. There really hasn't been much to dislike about DG in his career.

The only thing I keep thinking about is what the team would look like if he stayed here instead of going to Carolina.
Id say its qualified trust  
RetroJint : 3/13/2018 12:49 pm : link
like the kind I once gave George Young. Gettleman should be successful . He has been consistently successful...why fail now ?
Victor..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 12:52 pm : link
I'm not saying we are loaded at every position, but we have talent on this roster, and talent on the D - which is what carried us in 2016.

And I'll truly be pissed at Mac for a long time for fucking that up and getting the defense, pretty much to a man, to abdicate last year.

We aren't deep. That's been an issue for years and why injuries hit us so hard. But we have decent DE's, a top CB and a top S, A great DT and a promising 2nd year guy. We could be sitting with a bare cupboard. I don't like the DRC move right now and I hate relying on Apple, but let's see what things look like after FA and the draft.
RE: If ownership stays..  
Essex : 3/13/2018 12:54 pm : link
In comment 13862032 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
out of a lot of the decision making, DG has had a heck of a record of building teams. He had a lot of say in the evaluation of players when he was here the first time, and it was the only time we signed legitimate OL, in a variety of different ways - draft, FA, UDFA.

Then he went to Carolina and cleaned up a salary cap mess, successfully purged high priced vets and retooled through the draft and key FA's. And they went to the SB without Steve Smith or Williams.

He was fired for trying to decide how to handle the future of then 30-year old Greg olsen and the 32 year old Thomas Davis. And his decision to not resign a then 28 year old Josh Norman looks pretty good in retrospect.

He was fired by basically telling Jerry Richardson to let him do his job. There really hasn't been much to dislike about DG in his career.

The only thing I keep thinking about is what the team would look like if he stayed here instead of going to Carolina.

He was fired because the players hated him and complained to Jerry Richardson, which is not different from what you said but it is important to note that bridge to get to where he told Richardson to let him do his job. The players thought he was too tough on negotiations and they complained to the owner. I have no idea if Gettleman will be good or bad, but I think his track record is one of accomplishment, so I am giving him every benefit of the doubt. But, he hasn't earned my trust yet, not by a longshot.
That isn't true..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 1:04 pm : link
he was fired because he was exploring what options to take with Olsen and Davis.

Keep in mind, he let Norman go and everyone was cool with that - and basically because Richardson couldn't stand the guy. But then he wanted to see what return they could get for two aging vets (who are also the owner's favorite players), and he was canned shortly thereafter.

The Panthers would like you to believe DG was just a prick with communication issues because this was the owner's call solely (and several people in the organization were pissed). It is also why Brandon Beane went to Buffalo to be GM.

They would also have had you thought Richardson was a great guy and Marty Hurney a great GM. That team will be in over their heads a year from now, from both a leadership and personnel standpoint.
I always trust...  
bw in dc : 3/13/2018 1:11 pm : link
Jints Central.

It's not like they got desperate and wheeled Ernie Accorsi in from the home to get his guidance...
Trust them?  
bluepepper : 3/13/2018 1:14 pm : link
not sure what that means. Give them a chance? Absolutely.

I agree with Fats on Gettleman's CAR tenure. Richardson decided  
Victor in CT : 3/13/2018 1:16 pm : link
that the obvious best wy to run a team was the Art Modell model, where the owner is pals with the players and undercuts the coach and GM. And we all know how successful that model was.
RE: I always trust...  
DieHard : 3/13/2018 1:19 pm : link
In comment 13862123 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Jints Central.

It's not like they got desperate and wheeled Ernie Accorsi in from the home to get his guidance...


And his tenure only led to four playoff appearances and some key components of two Super Bowl-winning teams. If that's "failure," sign me up for similar failure with the new management team.
There are reports..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 1:28 pm : link
that Rivera tried to get some people to come in and talk to Richardson about his erratic behavior, and all of them were pretty much barred from the facilities.

You are talking about a guy who forced his own son's out when they were concerned at his actions following heart surgery. Both of his sons, Jon and Mark, were decision makers and they both resigned abruptly in 2009 when Jerry forced them out. A couple years later, he changed his original plan to hand the team to them to mandate that the team be sold two years after his death to a non-family member. Jon's dead now. Jerry's disgraced, and Mark owns less than 2% of the team and has been out of the decision making process.

Richardson faces any opposition by getting rid of the person and then trying to get the press to run negative stories. He doesn't have that power anymore, and just last month, there was an article rehashing the Gettleman situation wondering what would've happened had Richardson's judgement not been so poor.

It was clear at the time and clearer now that DG didn't deserve to be fired.
Agree with the OP  
TMS : 3/13/2018 2:11 pm : link
Think from past performances we appear to have a strong management team in place With DG, Abrams, Shurmur and the staff he has assembled. We had a few bumps in road already in out FA goals but lets see how it plays out.
Richardson  
Go Terps : 3/13/2018 2:13 pm : link
Wasn't he the guy that went nuts at the negotiating table during the CBA problems in 2010-2011? He told Peyton Manning to shut his mouth or something like that?
RE: Richardson  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2018 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13862323 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Wasn't he the guy that went nuts at the negotiating table during the CBA problems in 2010-2011? He told Peyton Manning to shut his mouth or something like that?


Yes. He's a real piece of work. Former player turned businessman, now spits on players during labor agreements.
To be fair..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/13/2018 2:17 pm : link
he was reasonable until he had a heart transplant and then he went crazy almost immediately.

I actually had a doctor tell me it can be an issue. They derogatorily call it "Pump Head".
I did not like the Gettleman hire,  
Glover : 3/13/2018 2:25 pm : link
but in the short time since then, the few moves he has made, and my love for the team, i feel he is going to smash free agency and hit the draft out of the park. Big Blue needs it. He hasn't done anything yet to shake my confidence.
RE: To be fair..  
Thegratefulhead : 3/13/2018 2:28 pm : link
In comment 13862332 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
he was reasonable until he had a heart transplant and then he went crazy almost immediately.

I actually had a doctor tell me it can be an issue. They derogatorily call it "Pump Head".
Spent 11 years of my life running a 3 physicians practice. "Pump Head" made me laugh, thank you. There are a lot of similar things out there. There is a book titled "House of God" by Samuel Shem. I think you would love it.
Uuuum, cliche time... hmmmm  
idiotsavant : 3/13/2018 2:41 pm : link
This isn't the end. This isn't even the beginning of the end. But this may be the end of the beginning?

We have known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns.

Need better O.L.s, there may be some in the draft....then there s the udfa market.
After the crap we have been served in recent years ...  
Beer Man : 3/13/2018 2:46 pm : link
Its hard to be patient, particularly when this year's FA so far is playing out like the last few years. The team needs help across the OL, but can't seem to land the FAs that can most help the team.
RE: agreed LG  
Alan in Toledo : 3/13/2018 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13861777 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
and good one djm


+1
Actually  
David B. : 3/13/2018 3:25 pm : link
It's more like some of us will trust these guys and others won't. And that will go on for years, regardless of how well or poorly the team performs.
LG  
joeinpa : 3/13/2018 3:26 pm : link
Are you suggesting that some here overreact to every signal development or non development.

Who would have thought it.
Trust maybe is the wrong word  
LG in NYC : 3/13/2018 3:58 pm : link
As someone correctly noted "Trust" is earned.

So perhaps it is more about giving them the benefit of the doubt, or allowing them some time to build their vision without pouncing on every move or non-move this early in the process.

leaving trust out of it, we made much needed, sweeping changes in this organization and brought in several guys who are generally well thought of and have solid track records in their field. I believe we should allow them to develop their plan. In the not so distant future, we will have the chance to judge that vision and the plan, but it seems a tad early to do so now.

IMO of course.
2 weeks ago,  
mrvax : 3/13/2018 3:59 pm : link
there was a thread "Giants will make Norwell the highest paid guard." And I thought about it and DG. I became convinced that no one in Giants central said any such thing.

"Giants to go after Norwell"? Sure. But that's totally different.
Losing Norwell to Coughlin of all people  
TMS : 3/13/2018 4:52 pm : link
and now Kennard is not good news in my world. Yeah I am worried .
Norwell & Kennard?  
GeorgeAdams33 : 3/13/2018 6:27 pm : link
Nothing to lose sleep over. We will do much better than Kennard, who is only average at best when he is actually healthy. Guards are something that Gentleman can find elsewhere and for much less just like he did when he found Norwell.

I am happy to see that the guy can show some restraint. Easy to sign a known commodity and rest on your laurels. DG passed his first test.
Gettleman  
GeorgeAdams33 : 3/13/2018 6:28 pm : link
I don't know if that was a slip or a slip up
RE: I think Gettleman was the right hire......  
DavidinBMNY : 3/13/2018 11:02 pm : link
In comment 13862024 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
its just that six years of lousy football and a beginning of FA that maybe is not turning out how we would like has a way of hitting a raw nerve.


So true.
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