It seems to be bandied about as common knowledge that Eli is done, or clearly on the downturn. Personally I disagree. I didn't see a significant drop off in arm strength, decision making, or accuracy. What I did see was poor coaching in every phase, poor game planning and management, poor run and pass blocking on the offensive line, poor ground game, and a lack of receiving talent to a level I have never seen on a Giants team ever! Literally every part of our team failed us miserably, yet many people here seem convinced we can't win with Eli.
I expect many here will say "well I watched him play" as the reason for this conclusion that he's done. To them I ask did you really watch the games and not notice the things outlined above? I don't think I'm making excuses for Eli, rather I think many are making excuses against him.
I do realize he is 37, so there is that factor, but I really don't see the writing on the wall that he has started to decline. I don't see why he can't lead the Giants for the next 2-3 years.
The biggest question I have is how we are going to clean up the rest of the team. The coaching changes seem positive, but we have a long way to go in every other position to contend. Extra picks in this draft would be helpful too. But I'm 100% positive that picking a QB to hold a clipboard with our most impactful draft pick will result in us picking top 5 again in next year's draft.
The biggest asset Favre, Elway, Moon, etc have had going into their golden years of QBing is there incredible arm talent. Since Eli doesn't have that, the decline is underway...
The biggest asset Favre, Elway, Moon, etc have had going into their golden years of QBing is there incredible arm talent. Since Eli doesn't have that, the decline is underway...
Respectfully disagree. I think Eli’s arm is the same. The offense isn’t. Give Eli a relatively clean pocket and WRs worth half a shit and he will throw the same elite Nfl out he threw in 2010.
The only real area where I can say there is a decline noticed is in his ability to stand in the pocket, and I think some of that came from coaching. It looks like he was told to get rid of the ball to avoid sacks instead of staying in and taking hits or forcing the throws for INT's.
And actually I think there have been quite a few guys chime in (like Gilbride) who say the arm looks the same.
The only real area where I can say there is a decline noticed is in his ability to stand in the pocket, and I think some of that came from coaching. It looks like he was told to get rid of the ball to avoid sacks instead of staying in and taking hits or forcing the throws for INT's.
And actually I think there have been quite a few guys chime in (like Gilbride) who say the arm looks the same.
Gilbride, Greg Cosell, Gettleman, Shurmer, Pat Kirwan, etc...
And on Eli, my evaluation has been fairly consistent over the past several years as to the decline in his play/skills. The main difference now only being how it is really accelerating.
I never said you had to rely on my view. But don't crap on it, especially since this team isn't exactly kicking ass and taking names since 2011 with our guy under center...
Eli is a funny one, he's very smart and his ability to read defenses and know where he's throwing the ball is amazing, but he's not very cerebral as the play is going on. If he misreads or his options aren't there, he makes very bad decisions, sometimes mind boggling.
The only real area where I can say there is a decline noticed is in his ability to stand in the pocket, and I think some of that came from coaching. It looks like he was told to get rid of the ball to avoid sacks instead of staying in and taking hits or forcing the throws for INT's.
And actually I think there have been quite a few guys chime in (like Gilbride) who say the arm looks the same.
This team was dreadfully coached under Mcadoo. The offense and atmosphere and aura was so bad it literally reduced eli to tears. It literally made him look terrible. There were games we struggled to get the ball to Odell Beckham. You hear that? Odell fucking Beckham and eli fucking Manning went through entire halfs of games where they failed to get in sync and it wasn’t because of the ol. It was the entire offensive philosophy and scheme. They rarely had a plan that worked early and they never ever ever adjusted to what defenses were doing to them, and what those defenses did was grotesque.
Forget 2016-2017. Place it in a hard to reach vault in your brain along with 91-92 and move on.
1995!!!
Is Eli Manning as bad as Dave brown? He must be right?
Mcadoo wrecked this team. Fucking wrecked it. Thank god he was bad enough to warrant a quick hook. I only wish the team sucked this bad in 2016 to hasten his departure but we will have to settle for two years of hell.
To win 11 games with that wack job mess calling the shots is nothing short of incredible. Handley only won 8 games and 6 games respectively. Then reeves came in and restored some order. Shurmur will too.
My friends and family yell at me for the same shit with texting. So I guess it’s me? Ill tell them Keith (kmed) said the same thing further validating the complaints.
I’ll try harder. Ps had knee surgery last night just a partial meniscus removal... I’d use the dopey effects of the pain killers as an excuse but I’m always dopey.
You want to dump on Manning? No big deal, but maybe once in a while think about the possibility (good possibility in my opinion) that you are wrong, and maybe lower your own opinion a couple of notches if you think your opinion should hold as much weight as people who have lived and breathed football for decades.
As for me being wrong, I'm wrong a lot, no big deal, I'm learning that an open mind is a valuable part of growing.
Bring your debate if you disagree as to a football opinion as I am happy to go head to head on topics. But bring more than a post made tongue in cheek like the braindead one as it wasn’t calling anybody specific out like u did.
Besides I usually post those types after a few martinis so cut me some slack...
Besides I usually post those types after a few martinis so cut me some slack...
Fair enough
I have been a dick lately. No excuse this is just a passionate topic and this period or moment in nyg history is so important... we all want the best. I have to remember that. If I have come off as assholish i apologize to everyone.
Now, why is he doing that? Clearly having a poor OL is one reason. But I think it's also the system - he's been trained to make quick reads and quick decisions, and I think he's been coached to NOT take chances downfield but to take the easier underneath stuff. He's protecting the Duke, which means his overall turnover numbers may be down but so are his big plays.
I personally think he still has enough in every way (physically, mentally, competitive drive) to perform well in this league. I'm not sure he's a perfect fit for the offense Shurmur will want to run, but then again Shurmur has lots of experience in different offenses, so if he's smart he'll build something Eli can be successful in.
With regards to whether the Giants HAVE to take another QB right now - I disagree. They will only take one if they are completely in love with one. I doubt they are. I think they'll go with Barkley, who should definitely be there for them. Personally I hope they do because I think he's a generational player and would really open things up offensively for this team right away, way more than any of the QB's or other picks could.
Thanks - just my opinion but I think that Eli is NOT the best QB for the type of offense that McAdoo was trying to install. Meaning, the ideal QB for that type of offense is one who has nearly perfect touch and accuracy on the short passes. The offense was designed to maximize YAC with all of the slants/crossing routes, and teams learned to sit back and allow the underneath passes. Eli's never had the best touch passes in the short game and when receivers have to wait, turn, stretch or come back to a pass it kills YAC and allows NFL defenders to quickly approach and tackle.
If Shurmur is smart and wants to play Eli he will NOT design such an offense IMO.
What Would Gilbride Say?
Respectfully disagree. I think Eli’s arm is the same. The offense isn’t. Give Eli a relatively clean pocket and WRs worth half a shit and he will throw the same elite Nfl out he threw in 2010.
The passes between the hashes when he has time looks - I guess - the same. The passes outside the hashes look much different to me - the ball seems to float a lot more. And even more so when he's on the move...
Again, this is what's supposed to happen when you're 38. It's a natural progression. But if you really think he throws just as well as when he was 24 than I guess we watch a different game...
Not yet.
Looking forward to some responses though. Do u want to take a crack Crick?
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In comment
Respectfully disagree. I think Eli’s arm is the same. The offense isn’t. Give Eli a relatively clean pocket and WRs worth half a shit and he will throw the same elite Nfl out he threw in 2010.
The passes between the hashes when he has time looks - I guess - the same. The passes outside the hashes look much different to me - the ball seems to float a lot more. And even more so when he's on the move...
Again, this is what's supposed to happen when you're 38. It's a natural progression. But if you really think he throws just as well as when he was 24 than I guess we watch a different game...
For the uninformed, at Jints Central, 37 year old players are 38.
Just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page.
Eli showed he can play in a ACO hybrid, like the one they ran with McAdoo as OC. It is pretty clear now that TC had a LT more influence on that offense than many of us realized.
Eli can play with a spread short passing scheme, just give him a decent OL and running game, take a few shots downfield. Shurmer’s scheme in Minny is VERY similar.
So lets round up to 38...
Seriously though, get better soon, it’s actually an easy recovery.
Seriously though, get better soon, it’s actually an easy recovery.
I was surprised they gave me painkillers honestly. I don’t need them anymore. Really not bad at all 24 hours later.
Nice parting gift tho...
So lets round up to 38...
I've been firmly in the camp of Eli being in decline, but I also don't think anyone needs to fudge the numbers to show it. bw was talking about observations/examples that have already happened, so rounding up for the next time Eli takes a snap doesn't really apply here.
IMO, and admittedly I'm no expert, but Eli would do best in a much more balanced offense. He would do well with a power run game that would set up play-action where he can be very good. The passing game would focus less on YAC and more on air yards, primarily through vertical routes by receivers (TE included).
As I watched McAdoo's offense closely over the past couple of years what stood out to me was the incredible number of routes run for very short yards. It seems every play had a minimum of two receivers running routes of less than 10 yards. These horizontal routes were open much more often and quickly and as time passed Eli went to them much more often but consistently for fewer and fewer yards. Compressing the offensive attack didn't work, so I think the opposite would be best for Eli.
Wonder why the Eli Fan Club can't weigh in, all though I can speculate...
What's the Offense for the attributes Eli has today?