It seems to be bandied about as common knowledge that Eli is done, or clearly on the downturn. Personally I disagree. I didn't see a significant drop off in arm strength, decision making, or accuracy. What I did see was poor coaching in every phase, poor game planning and management, poor run and pass blocking on the offensive line, poor ground game, and a lack of receiving talent to a level I have never seen on a Giants team ever! Literally every part of our team failed us miserably, yet many people here seem convinced we can't win with Eli.
I expect many here will say "well I watched him play" as the reason for this conclusion that he's done. To them I ask did you really watch the games and not notice the things outlined above? I don't think I'm making excuses for Eli, rather I think many are making excuses against him.
I do realize he is 37, so there is that factor, but I really don't see the writing on the wall that he has started to decline. I don't see why he can't lead the Giants for the next 2-3 years.
The biggest question I have is how we are going to clean up the rest of the team. The coaching changes seem positive, but we have a long way to go in every other position to contend. Extra picks in this draft would be helpful too. But I'm 100% positive that picking a QB to hold a clipboard with our most impactful draft pick will result in us picking top 5 again in next year's draft.
It would be strange if he hadn't.
I think when it comes to Eli, most people are simply seeing what they want to see one way or the other.
Yes he's regressed. I think he can still win on a good team. I don't think this is a good team.
And his ball security when getting touched by defenders was totally non existent. He’s about as close to done as one can be.
But Eli has regressed. If you choose to not accept it, that’s up to you. I know for many on here, I’ll have to use the disclaimer that he is my favorite Giant of all time so it doesn’t look like I’m an anti Eli guy.
We have a rare opportunity to draft a premier QB (if we believe one is premier) at the top of the draft at a time where our 37 year old QB is in decline. And make no mistake, Eli is in decline and will continue to decline at his age. Add in the fact this roster is nowhere ready to win.
I have no idea how you can watch this player and claim there's been no regression at all.
The argument should be how much he's regressed - not whether he has or hasn't.
It's clear he's regressed. This is not the same player we saw several years ago no matter how much we want him to be.
I don't understand your argument. The 2014 and 2015 New York Giants were not good teams. But Eli played better in those years. He was worse in 2016 when they made the playoffs. He was worse last year. Statistically this is fact. But just look at his play on the field.
If you ask me, I'm not sure where he is psychologically right now. He looks skittish to me. The years of playing behind shoddy OL's may have caught up to him.
InsideThePylon: Pat Shurmur and the Giants
Given the absolute shit show last year was in all aspects, I don't want to overweigh his performance. I also think Shurmur's system will give him a better chance to succeed than he's had in a while. But it's not a reach to assume he's at the point where the negatives will outweigh the positives moving forward, and I fully understand why a lot of people think it would be better for the franchise to move on.
Eli was never a great mover but he was nimble. He's really lost that.
And you can really see the deterioration in arm strength when he's throwing on the move. It jumps off the screen to me.
He's always had a bad habit of making poor decisions under duress. But sometimes he could throw out of it because of his arm. That option is long gone...
Someone threw a subjective analysis together - here at BBI - over the weekend trying to figure out why certain big name guys were success late in age. The reason that was overlooked was simple - arm strength. Despite the age creep, these guys could still make ALL of the throws. I firmly believe Eli is not blesses with that skill and that's a big reason why he will continue to slide...
+1 Agreed.. The team needs too much. Can't hold on to the past any longer.
I am not even going on 2017 since his team may have been the worst in the league.
This could be his last year as a QB, lets hope he makes it a good one. Lets hope for good health for everyone.
Is this a serious statement? I have seen it said a lot around BBI - and thought it was a joke.
CC: GiantFilthy
Eli cannot throw a simple screen and his deep throws are gone. What ELi has left is his brain but that can only get you as far when you hear ghosts around you. Many times in the last 2 years Eli has fell without being touched at the fear of getting hit. Once that is in your head you are cooked. I thank Eli for 2 SB wins and how he handled himself as a Giant but I would have traded or released him. I think this team needed to start from scratch when they cleaned house last year.
We are trying to spoon feed an again, ghost hearer, declining qb on a new regime. I am sure that DG and PS are saying the right things to not disrespect Eli but they know they need a new qb that they DRAFTED and can hitch their tenures to. Webb is not their pick and the guys this year are to me superior to Webb. Eli should be traded if he allows it and we should rebuild with a new QB....Those are just facts. No need to make more excuses for Eli and think we are close when this team has been brutal for 6 years and the one year they made the playoffs it was all on the defense not anything Eli did
It is disgraceful, but that is no reason to cling on to the past. We are where we are now. He has definitely declined. His intermediate/deep ball accuracy, always one of his biggest strengths in his prime is just not there anymore.
Eric is right, in 2014 Eli and Odell in the final 8 games were lighting up the NFL, and they carried it into 2015. If you want to blame McAdoo's offense go ahead, I am sure it played a factor. But he did not look remotely to me like the same QB he was even in 2014 and 2015.
Quote:
is about to throw another must defend eli fit.
CC: GiantFilthy
“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
Greg Cosell:
Pat Shurmur:
Dave Gettleman:
According to Calvin Watkins on Twitter, Gettleman said the Giants have talent and “we will build it one brick at a time." Gettleman also said Manning will return and the Philly game was not a “mirage.” Gettleman made these comments at the Senior Bowl in Mobile as the Giants begin their process of scouting the draft prospects in the 2017 class.
There are more....
As long as their is a QB available that has franchise talent, I hope they draft it and Eli can play a few years as a potential playoff team game manager and then the next era starts.
That is ideal.
Eli will be the starter next year, and will be until he decides to retire.
Because he is GOOD. Very good. Check the analysis of a franchise QB thread. Football is a team game, and Eli can uphold his position well enough to win.
I totally agree with you, Eric. We need to take off the blue blinders and start planning for the future viability of this franchise. Like I said in another thread, Eli has done for years. Enough respect for him but we need to move on.
Quote:
Gilbride said flatly that “I do not see a significant dropoff” in Manning’s play.
“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
Greg Cosell:
Quote:
Cosell on Eli the player: “It’s a bad offense, and has been for a while, and there’s many factors that go into that, and the QB bears the brunt of it. That’s just the reality of life in the NFL. I would say that it’s a team with a poor OL. It’s a team that can’t run the football, and Eli is a ‘dependent’ QB – Eli is dependent on the rest of the team to be successful. So right now, the ‘dependent’ parts are totally lacking, and he can’t be successful on any kind of consistent basis. It’s not a function of if he’s lost his ability to throw a football, he’s not lost his ability to understand the game and control a game at the line of scrimmage. He’s not lost his ability, but his style of QB’ing...he’s a ‘dependent’ player. There’s nothing for him to depend on right now within an offense that’s bad in every single area.”
Pat Shurmur:
Quote:
“I watched Eli throw a little bit this summer, and I walked away saying, ‘He looked really, really good,’ ’’ Shurmur said. “He looked fit. He was throwing the ball well. The ball had good velocity coming off his hand. And again, I think he’s got years left. How much, I don’t know. But I think he has time left, and I look forward to working with him.’’
Dave Gettleman:
Quote:
"I had an opportunity to watch [Manning's film] because the quarterback is the most important position on the team," Gettleman told reporters, per the team's website. "At the end of the day, it wasn't a mirage. It was not a mirage."
Quote:
General manager Dave Gettleman finally had a chance to watch all of Manning's game tape from 2017, and not just the impressive performance against the Eagles late in the season, and he came away impressed with what he saw. Gettleman didn't outright say it, but it's clear he blames the old offensive scheme, play calling, poor pass protection on the offensive line, injuries at wide receiver, and the lack of a running game for Manning's struggles.
According to Calvin Watkins on Twitter, Gettleman said the Giants have talent and “we will build it one brick at a time." Gettleman also said Manning will return and the Philly game was not a “mirage.” Gettleman made these comments at the Senior Bowl in Mobile as the Giants begin their process of scouting the draft prospects in the 2017 class.
There are more....
So you expect PS and DG to say he is cooked?
FWIW.
Eli will be the starter next year, and will be until he decides to retire.
Because he is GOOD. Very good. Check the analysis of a franchise QB thread. Football is a team game, and Eli can uphold his position well enough to win.
Name me the last VERY GOOD QB to lead his team to 14.5 pts per game for 16 games and miss playoffs in 5of6 seasons and the one playoff season he did nothing to contribute
I guess I should go with your observation instead?
Since being drafted, you need to put good players around Eli or he's going to look average IMO.
I still believe if he has good players around him, he'll do very well.
Problem is, the Giants and he are running out of time.
With that, I think he's the perfect bridge to mentor a young QB, and I think that's the plan right now with DG/PS.
Quote:
So you expect PS and DG to say he is cooked?
I guess I should go with your observation instead?
Nope not at all. But new GM and HC are not going to tell the fans and media that Eli cant play and he should be cut
I would take their comments with a grain of salt.
Actions will speak louder than words. If they pass on a QB @ 2 (or a few spots later), I'll be more inclined to believe them. But for now, there's no reason for them to devalue him. It would kill any potential trade value if they had any interest in keeping that avenue open and it would tilt their draft hand in a major way to insinuate that they think Eli is finished.
Quote:
give me a break. Its kinda hard to evaluate him over the past 2 seasons. More like impossible. Shit O line, shit offensive scheme. Its just as viable to say he has 2 more Super Bowl MVPs left in him as it is to say he's done.
Eli will be the starter next year, and will be until he decides to retire.
Because he is GOOD. Very good. Check the analysis of a franchise QB thread. Football is a team game, and Eli can uphold his position well enough to win.
Name me the last VERY GOOD QB to lead his team to 14.5 pts per game for 16 games and miss playoffs in 5of6 seasons and the one playoff season he did nothing to contribute
Kurt Warner missed the playoffs in 6 straight seasons. But I am sure you have already forgotten that.
It's pretty bad when I have to think twice whether or not Eli would be an upgrade over Bortles RN.
Quote:
Gilbride said flatly that “I do not see a significant dropoff” in Manning’s play.
“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
Greg Cosell:
Quote:
Cosell on Eli the player: “It’s a bad offense, and has been for a while, and there’s many factors that go into that, and the QB bears the brunt of it. That’s just the reality of life in the NFL. I would say that it’s a team with a poor OL. It’s a team that can’t run the football, and Eli is a ‘dependent’ QB – Eli is dependent on the rest of the team to be successful. So right now, the ‘dependent’ parts are totally lacking, and he can’t be successful on any kind of consistent basis. It’s not a function of if he’s lost his ability to throw a football, he’s not lost his ability to understand the game and control a game at the line of scrimmage. He’s not lost his ability, but his style of QB’ing...he’s a ‘dependent’ player. There’s nothing for him to depend on right now within an offense that’s bad in every single area.”
Pat Shurmur:
Quote:
“I watched Eli throw a little bit this summer, and I walked away saying, ‘He looked really, really good,’ ’’ Shurmur said. “He looked fit. He was throwing the ball well. The ball had good velocity coming off his hand. And again, I think he’s got years left. How much, I don’t know. But I think he has time left, and I look forward to working with him.’’
Dave Gettleman:
Quote:
"I had an opportunity to watch [Manning's film] because the quarterback is the most important position on the team," Gettleman told reporters, per the team's website. "At the end of the day, it wasn't a mirage. It was not a mirage."
Quote:
General manager Dave Gettleman finally had a chance to watch all of Manning's game tape from 2017, and not just the impressive performance against the Eagles late in the season, and he came away impressed with what he saw. Gettleman didn't outright say it, but it's clear he blames the old offensive scheme, play calling, poor pass protection on the offensive line, injuries at wide receiver, and the lack of a running game for Manning's struggles.
According to Calvin Watkins on Twitter, Gettleman said the Giants have talent and “we will build it one brick at a time." Gettleman also said Manning will return and the Philly game was not a “mirage.” Gettleman made these comments at the Senior Bowl in Mobile as the Giants begin their process of scouting the draft prospects in the 2017 class.
There are more....
This is all in line with my opinion about Eli -- and I'll point out one more thing
MacAdoo was ready to dispense with Eli Manning for Geno Smith. He was locked into his scheme and not Eli's strengths as a player. And it was desperation on his part. Geno Smith wasn't going to win with that scheme. Geno Smith is a snatch defeat from the jaws of victory type player. MacAdoo wasn't going to win with that scheme either especially after Beckham went down --
MacAdoo was a one trick pony. You don't force a scheme on players that can't execute it for you. You change the scheme to fit the players -- BM was too damned stubborn and incapable of doing that. He fell for his own reviews. He stubbornly clung to what he knew from working with Aaron Rodgers.
That's bad coaching from a stubborn bull in the china shop, and it is not bad Quarterbacking!
If you are going to analyze Eli from that scheme and the poor coaching decisions that were made you are over-reacting - and analyzing from results, and not Eli's actual skills and where they are at.
But remember the predictability of our offense the last two years. Our 11 formation was the most used in history. We didnt carry fullbacks. McAdoo's offense was wretched beyond belief. When he was OC, you saw Coughlin's influence on the game plan.
Lets just hope Shurmur and Shula are the goods whether its Eli, Wbb, or the number 2 pick.
It's time to move on.