It seems to be bandied about as common knowledge that Eli is done, or clearly on the downturn. Personally I disagree. I didn't see a significant drop off in arm strength, decision making, or accuracy. What I did see was poor coaching in every phase, poor game planning and management, poor run and pass blocking on the offensive line, poor ground game, and a lack of receiving talent to a level I have never seen on a Giants team ever! Literally every part of our team failed us miserably, yet many people here seem convinced we can't win with Eli.
I expect many here will say "well I watched him play" as the reason for this conclusion that he's done. To them I ask did you really watch the games and not notice the things outlined above? I don't think I'm making excuses for Eli, rather I think many are making excuses against him.
I do realize he is 37, so there is that factor, but I really don't see the writing on the wall that he has started to decline. I don't see why he can't lead the Giants for the next 2-3 years.
The biggest question I have is how we are going to clean up the rest of the team. The coaching changes seem positive, but we have a long way to go in every other position to contend. Extra picks in this draft would be helpful too. But I'm 100% positive that picking a QB to hold a clipboard with our most impactful draft pick will result in us picking top 5 again in next year's draft.
It's time to move on.
It's time to move on.
Wow -- so you're saying it doesn't matter if Eli has regressed, because he will regress?
Nice -- that covers all the bases for dismissal.
By the way - all the warty QBs that are available in the Draft are coming would be coming here not ready for the NFL yet. The Giants still have to play 16 games next year.
I for one would like to see what Eli can do in an Offense that set up to maximize his strengths - and frankly I'll take Kevin Gillbride's word for Eli's skill evaluation before anyone on this board.
Franchise QB is one position where, in my opinion, the "better a year early than a year late" rule doesn't apply. When you have one, you better run him into the ground because there are no guarantees that the next one can perform anywhere close to that level.
He's still capable of playing some good football, but he's not the player he was a few years ago. He's missing all sorts of throws he used to make, a tell-tale sign the arm is declining.
Sentimentality is part of what's killing this franchise.
He's still capable of playing some good football, but he's not the player he was a few years ago. He's missing all sorts of throws he used to make, a tell-tale sign the arm is declining.
Sentimentality is part of what's killing this franchise.
That last sentence a million times. It goes back to keeping Reese and Ross but firing TC. (I personally think all of them should've been fired at the same time). It's still affecting this franchise to this day.
And I'll add one other element: excuse making. This team has been cloaked in excuses for a while. Excuses for underperformance, excuses for behavior, excuses for a being a brutal team since 2012. It's been one rationalization after another.
Blaming the offensive line exclusively for Eli's drop in play is another in a long line of those rationalizations.
Hell, yea he's regressed.
And with the shit-ass o-line in front of him, he has also become more jittery and willing to go down at the first hint of pressure.
But I'll tell you when the bottom is out of the barrel for Eli... and it harks back to Kerry Collins' biggest flaw:
If Eli stops looking down field and starts to stare at his feet as his pocket collapses, he might as well retire.
"He can still throw! Why are we trying to get rid of him?"
It sounds silly.
You can either see it on the field, or you can't.
Arm strength isn't typically how you determine whether a QB still has it or not.
Because they have not declined as much as he has. They're human beings, not robots. Men in their late 30s react differently to aging. Also, I'm not sure how you would make the argument that Eli has been as consistent of a regular season qb as Ben. Perhaps that has something to do with it, perhaps Ben is just a better Qb. And I'm a big Eli fan, I'm also realistic.
Shopping him to who? We'd be lucky to get a 3rd round pick for him at this point
rueben randle agrees. the off has been broken twice in last 5yrs with eli at qb,but its never his fault.
Teams in this league can turn it around a lot quicker than they used to.
I am not ready for a Southern Californian at QB as a replacement. They have a tough time in the cold of the Northeast
"He can still throw! Why are we trying to get rid of him?"
It sounds silly.
You can either see it on the field, or you can't.
Arm strength isn't typically how you determine whether a QB still has it or not.
When you're saying a player is physically in decline, which is so often said here, what are you basing that on if not arm strength and other physical intangibles?
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Eli is one of my all-time favorites. But if I were GM, I'd be shopping him right now.
Shopping him to who? We'd be lucky to get a 3rd round pick for him at this point
Third Round???
I would happily take a sixth, unload his contract and move on to a new era, rebuilding with a freshly drafted QB.
It's past fucking time to blow this entire team up.
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Kevin Gilbride:
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Gilbride said flatly that “I do not see a significant dropoff” in Manning’s play.
“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
Greg Cosell:
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Cosell on Eli the player: “It’s a bad offense, and has been for a while, and there’s many factors that go into that, and the QB bears the brunt of it. That’s just the reality of life in the NFL. I would say that it’s a team with a poor OL. It’s a team that can’t run the football, and Eli is a ‘dependent’ QB – Eli is dependent on the rest of the team to be successful. So right now, the ‘dependent’ parts are totally lacking, and he can’t be successful on any kind of consistent basis. It’s not a function of if he’s lost his ability to throw a football, he’s not lost his ability to understand the game and control a game at the line of scrimmage. He’s not lost his ability, but his style of QB’ing...he’s a ‘dependent’ player. There’s nothing for him to depend on right now within an offense that’s bad in every single area.”
Pat Shurmur:
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“I watched Eli throw a little bit this summer, and I walked away saying, ‘He looked really, really good,’ ’’ Shurmur said. “He looked fit. He was throwing the ball well. The ball had good velocity coming off his hand. And again, I think he’s got years left. How much, I don’t know. But I think he has time left, and I look forward to working with him.’’
Dave Gettleman:
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"I had an opportunity to watch [Manning's film] because the quarterback is the most important position on the team," Gettleman told reporters, per the team's website. "At the end of the day, it wasn't a mirage. It was not a mirage."
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General manager Dave Gettleman finally had a chance to watch all of Manning's game tape from 2017, and not just the impressive performance against the Eagles late in the season, and he came away impressed with what he saw. Gettleman didn't outright say it, but it's clear he blames the old offensive scheme, play calling, poor pass protection on the offensive line, injuries at wide receiver, and the lack of a running game for Manning's struggles.
According to Calvin Watkins on Twitter, Gettleman said the Giants have talent and “we will build it one brick at a time." Gettleman also said Manning will return and the Philly game was not a “mirage.” Gettleman made these comments at the Senior Bowl in Mobile as the Giants begin their process of scouting the draft prospects in the 2017 class.
There are more....
This is all in line with my opinion about Eli -- and I'll point out one more thing
MacAdoo was ready to dispense with Eli Manning for Geno Smith. He was locked into his scheme and not Eli's strengths as a player. And it was desperation on his part. Geno Smith wasn't going to win with that scheme. Geno Smith is a snatch defeat from the jaws of victory type player. MacAdoo wasn't going to win with that scheme either especially after Beckham went down --
MacAdoo was a one trick pony. You don't force a scheme on players that can't execute it for you. You change the scheme to fit the players -- BM was too damned stubborn and incapable of doing that. He fell for his own reviews. He stubbornly clung to what he knew from working with Aaron Rodgers.
That's bad coaching from a stubborn bull in the china shop, and it is not bad Quarterbacking!
If you are going to analyze Eli from that scheme and the poor coaching decisions that were made you are over-reacting - and analyzing from results, and not Eli's actual skills and where they are at.
as if we needed more proof of McAdoo's incompetence. Ray Handley II
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Eli is one of my all-time favorites. But if I were GM, I'd be shopping him right now.
Shopping him to who? We'd be lucky to get a 3rd round pick for him at this point
I’d happily take a third for Eli.
New head coach
2nd pick overall
There is never going to be a better time to put an end to the excruciating half measures that have been team policy since Eli was made the starter in 2004. I'm tired of trying to catch lightning in a bottle. We all should be.
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Using some of the logic on this thread, QB's wouldn't regress until they're about 50 years old.
"He can still throw! Why are we trying to get rid of him?"
It sounds silly.
You can either see it on the field, or you can't.
Arm strength isn't typically how you determine whether a QB still has it or not.
When you're saying a player is physically in decline, which is so often said here, what are you basing that on if not arm strength and other physical intangibles?
Because there's more to it than just arm strength. It's decision-making, processing what's happening on the field, and results.
We've done nothing but lose with Eli under center for the majority of the last 6 seasons.
If it was just about how far a guy could chuck it, QB's would routinely play into their 40's. It's more than that.
Sentimentality is absolutely playing a major role in the way people view Eli's performance.
I get it. But I think a lot of the guys who are insisting that Eli still has it are really just trying to convince themselves more than anything else because that's what they want.
If I thought we could truly fix this OL this offseason, I'd be 100% committed to the idea of riding it out with Eli. But it's going to take a couple of years and eventually we have to concede that Eli won't play forever.
Not perfect, just an OL that's not in the Bottom 5 of the league, one of his Top 3 WRs play 16 games (hell, 12) and a RB in the Top 20 in the league.
The Mac offensive strategy....
No running game.....
No OL for the last 6 seasons....
The injuries to the receivers in 2017....
With all that, how can you truly judge someone?
I think he has something left, if he is with the right team.....the Giants just are not that team...
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Buffalo, Jacksonville...
It's pretty bad when I have to think twice whether or not Eli would be an upgrade over Bortles RN.
Has a NO TRADE!
Curious
lol Eli does not put up 45 in Pittsburgh, not even in his dreams
Curious
SF? The GW pass to Donnell in 2015?
Not sure if I can remember one more recently than that off the top of my head.
The type of investment the team will need to build around Eli at 37 seems like an inevitable upside down ROI.
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that Eli won a game with 2m left in Q4?
Curious
SF? The GW pass to Donnell in 2015?
Not sure if I can remember one more recently than that off the top of my head.
Are you serious? Chiefs game last year? Ravens and Saints games in 2016? You conveniently forgot those??
All Eli?
I'd say all Beckham in that Ravens game.
Also, Eli threw for like 200 yards and 0 TD's against KC - we also had to setting for FG's both times. Didn't score a single TD that day.
We're really crediting Eli for that?
LOL. Okay.
No, its because they have maintained their Franchise QB skills. They both had strong 2017 years.
And last I saw in January Big Ben was firing missiles all over the vaunted Jaguar defense. Brees left the field in Minnesota by bringing his team all the way back to take the lead (after an absolutely clutch perfect throw on 4th down no less keeping the drive alive) before the Saints defense blew it.
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Nobody is talking about their eroding skills, and why? Because they are both on substantially better teams.
No, its because they have maintained their Franchise QB skills. They both had strong 2017 years.
And last I saw in January Big Ben was firing missiles all over the vaunted Jaguar defense. Brees left the field in Minnesota by bringing his team all the way back to take the lead (after an absolutely clutch perfect throw on 4th down no less keeping the drive alive) before the Saints defense blew it.
You really thought Ben played that well against Jax? I doubt you watched it since the Jags were credited with FIVE dropped INTs. Forget aboot them?
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In comment 13862355 mikeygiants said:
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Buffalo, Jacksonville...
It's pretty bad when I have to think twice whether or not Eli would be an upgrade over Bortles RN.
Has a NO TRADE!
You act as if a player with a NTC has never been traded.
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In comment 13862287 Eric from BBI said:
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Eli is one of my all-time favorites. But if I were GM, I'd be shopping him right now.
Shopping him to who? We'd be lucky to get a 3rd round pick for him at this point
Third Round???
I would happily take a sixth, unload his contract and move on to a new era, rebuilding with a freshly drafted QB.
But to "unload" his contract via a trade incurs a dead cap hit of $12.4M. Wait another 5 days, and it jumps to $17.4M. Hardly worth it to net some late round picks.
Now, if they want to rid themselves of his contract, they can release him before the roster bonus due on 3/18 and designate him as a post June 1st cut. They will have to carry the full dead cap hit of $12.4M until June 1st at which time the cap hit is lessened to $6.2M this year and $6.2M next year. Of course, doing so leaves them with Webb and whomever they draft. With the assumption that a new QB is drafted, that limits DG's options in the draft.
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in 2016 was the one before that. All Eli.
All Eli?
I'd say all Beckham in that Ravens game.
Also, Eli threw for like 200 yards and 0 TD's against KC - we also had to setting for FG's both times. Didn't score a single TD that day.
While the no tds certainly enhance your argument... weather was brutal that game. Remember how bad Smith was for KC?
Wait until after this season when DG extends Eli a couple more years. I'll pray for BBI's Hamster.