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The #Giants are expected to sign former #Patriots LT Nate Solder, source said. They get their franchise left tackle. Huge get.
So much depends on where they land. Even a top prospect like Luck has been hamstrung by incompetent management, while a third rounder in Russell Wilson landed in an excellent organization and won a Super Bowl.
Remove the names involved: if you were advising a team with a 37 year old QB coming off one of the worst seasons of his career, how would you tell them to proceed?
Objectivity is needed here. What happened in the past is moot. What is Eli going to be?
I don't think you ever just hand the reigns of a team to a rookie. The Browns acquired Tyrod Taylor for that exact reason. I think Eli is still better than Tyrod Taylor (and most of the other QB's getting insane contracts this offseason) and I see no reason to believe he wouldn't also be a great mentor to any young QB.
If I thought there was a franchise QB at 2 next month I'd take him without hesitation. That decision wouldn't change my approach in FA to surround him with the best team possible, especially a good OL. Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson aren't as effective as they were right away if they didn't have great running games.
So to me whether it's Eli or Sam Darnold, my approach to FA and rebuilding this roster would have probably still included going after Andrew Norwell and Nate Solder.
There are other possibilities such as taking a HOF level Guard after a trade back and if Eli doesnt play well you find yourself with 2 number 1 picks in 2019.
There is also the possibility of forcing the pick on a QB who sucks and watching Barkley and Nelson go on to all-pro careers elsewhere.
There is also the possibility of drafting Barkley or Nelson and Webb takes over in 2019 and finds success in Shurmur's system after a seamless transition.
It's not draft a QB with the #2 pick or the Giants are stupid.
I'm just a little confused by your takes lately. The NFL is a year to year business. What do you want Mara and Gettleman to do? Spend absolutely nothing with the cap we have? Try to keep finding "gems" in the mid rounds or "value" signings with average football players? This team needs top tier talent, especially on the OL. Drafting guys is great, but but it's a crapshoot.
Solder is a 30 year old LT and is very good. It's the most important position on the football field besides QB. This was a good move. Not sure how else you can swing it.
this board badly wanted an upgrade to the OL. Gettleman goes out and signs one of the better LTs in football, and yet, here we are. Still bitching. Unbelievable.
So much depends on where they land. Even a top prospect like Luck has been hamstrung by incompetent management, while a third rounder in Russell Wilson landed in an excellent organization and won a Super Bowl.
Remove the names involved: if you were advising a team with a 37 year old QB coming off one of the worst seasons of his career, how would you tell them to proceed?
Objectivity is needed here. What happened in the past is moot. What is Eli going to be?
Eli is going to be better than any other QB option available to us during the next two years.
The second overall pick is not the only way to find a good QB these days. Russell Wilson (as you mentioned), Kirk Cousins, Jimmy Garapolo were all had in later rounds.
There are many ways to build a team. System and controlling the LOS seem to be the option du jour these days, not the "get the QB and build around him", see Andrew Luck (as you mentioned).
That's quite an assumption. There's no way of knowing that. And given the talent level of this current class and what a guy like Watson was able to do when he got thrown into the fire, I'd be willing to bet this won't be true.
Look at what Wentz and Goff did in year 2. Both guys were better than Eli this year by a pretty wide margin.
(1) the offensive line was a mess
(2) our running backs were not good
(3) Brandon Marshall sucked then got hurt
(4) our quarterback didn't play well
I saw plenty of plays where Eli had plenty of time with wide open receivers and he misfired. I saw plenty of times we were in 3rd-and-10 because our RB couldn't hit a hole. I saw plenty of times where our receivers were blanketed. I saw plenty of times where our offensive line or tight ends couldn't block.
It wasn't all just the OL. And if you think it was, we're screwed because the OL isn't going to magically turnaround in 2018.
The OL can “magically” turn around if they draft well. Good rookie OL are impacting immediately in the league.
I stand by everything I've said. If you can't or won't see the teams all in to win now so be it. I will be proven correct. How you don't see it boggles my mind. That said if I'm wrong ill admit it. Just be prepared to eat a lot of crow when eli proves he has plenty left in the tank.
There's no crow to be eaten. I have not said that you're wrong, just that the certainty you seem to have isn't based on anything that you can possibly be certain about. Everything the team has said and done that you claim is proof that they're doing one thing, would be exactly the same if they were doing the complete opposite.
My point is just that your certainty stems solely from what you hope will happen, not from anything that definitively points in that direction.
this board badly wanted an upgrade to the OL. Gettleman goes out and signs one of the better LTs in football, and yet, here we are. Still bitching. Unbelievable.
EXACTLY!! Look I agree we are overpaying, but we are paying for our past sins!! Would everyone rather Gettleman sit on his hands and sign no one, then draft as many O-Linemen as he can. listen, Solder is no slouch, he will provide some much needed veteran leadership on that line. let's hope Gettleman can find another piece for the Line in F/A and add a draft pick or two to the mix.
If you look at any statistical measure, Eli has been a good but not great QB in the regular season throughout his career. He peaked around 2011 but even then he was not elite like his brother, Brady, or Rodgers.
The only stats where elite is elite is Super Bowl wins. He is a guy who raises his game in the playoffs. I would compare him to Claude Lemieux, a guy who was decent in the NHL regular seaslon but became the best player on the ice in the playoffs.
Most of his career Eli has been somewhere around the 8-12th best QB in the NFL. His career numbers are predicated on durability (very important for a QB), not because he was ever in a class with Brees or Peyton.
So, now he is probably the 12th best qb rather than the 7th or 8th. But he is still basically the same guy. Before, he was a bit overrated by Giants fans and we all would bristle when national media often failed to list Eli among the top QBs. Now, it has gone the other way, he is being undertated.
It is undeniable his game has declined a bit, but if you gave him the 2011 OL and Cruz and Nicks, he would still put numbers.
Marvin Austin instead of Marcus Gilbert (2011)
Ruben Randle instead of Brandon Brooks (2012)
Justin Pugh instead of Travis Frederick (2013)
Weston Richburg instead of Trai Turner (2014)
Ereck Flowers instead of Andrus Peat (2015)
Eli Apple instead of Laremy Tunsil (2016)
To take into account how bad Mac's scheme possibly was. It wasn't just the OL. Manning was dealing with a poor OL in addition to a possible horrible offensive scheme.
i think he's a generational RB. But I wouldn't be upset if we pass on him for a QB. Nobody really should be. It's the most important position in sports, and if we draft a stud, it won't matter if Barkley becomes Adrian Peterson. We'll have a franchise QB.
If you look at any statistical measure, Eli has been a good but not great QB in the regular season throughout his career. He peaked around 2011 but even then he was not elite like his brother, Brady, or Rodgers.
The only stats where elite is elite is Super Bowl wins. He is a guy who raises his game in the playoffs. I would compare him to Claude Lemieux, a guy who was decent in the NHL regular seaslon but became the best player on the ice in the playoffs.
Most of his career Eli has been somewhere around the 8-12th best QB in the NFL. His career numbers are predicated on durability (very important for a QB), not because he was ever in a class with Brees or Peyton.
So, now he is probably the 12th best qb rather than the 7th or 8th. But he is still basically the same guy. Before, he was a bit overrated by Giants fans and we all would bristle when national media often failed to list Eli among the top QBs. Now, it has gone the other way, he is being undertated.
It is undeniable his game has declined a bit, but if you gave him the 2011 OL and Cruz and Nicks, he would still put numbers.
Only Player to show up in the Green Bay Fiasco! which lends credence to what you said about his game when he's in the playoffs, he's a different QB.
it's entirely possible that they can still think he has 2 good years left in the tank, and also draft a QB at 2. Why can't we do that?
I've said this, as well. But apparently some think you can't draft a QB at 2 and win anymore, which is odd considering Carson Wentz exists.
If we're going it for it this year & talking about 'one side eating crow', then the team better win alot of games AND have a pretty good playoff run. Not one and done. But win a couple of games in the playoffs.
I can name several quarterbacks picked the last two years that outperformed Eli in 2017. Why assume he's going to be better than any of these guys in 2018?
Again, objectivity is needed. I will give you two numbers that are objective: age and cap number.
If you look at any statistical measure, Eli has been a good but not great QB in the regular season throughout his career. He peaked around 2011 but even then he was not elite like his brother, Brady, or Rodgers.
The only stats where elite is elite is Super Bowl wins. He is a guy who raises his game in the playoffs. I would compare him to Claude Lemieux, a guy who was decent in the NHL regular seaslon but became the best player on the ice in the playoffs.
Most of his career Eli has been somewhere around the 8-12th best QB in the NFL. His career numbers are predicated on durability (very important for a QB), not because he was ever in a class with Brees or Peyton.
So, now he is probably the 12th best qb rather than the 7th or 8th. But he is still basically the same guy. Before, he was a bit overrated by Giants fans and we all would bristle when national media often failed to list Eli among the top QBs. Now, it has gone the other way, he is being undertated.
It is undeniable his game has declined a bit, but if you gave him the 2011 OL and Cruz and Nicks, he would still put numbers.
This is the best take on Eli I've seen on this board. Overrated by Giants fans in his prime and overrated in his decline recently. He's always been a top 1/3 of the league starter with special intangibles. He's probably regressed a little to middle of the pack with special intangibles. My problem with loading up behind Eli is that we won't be able to build a good enough roster to take advantage of those intangibles before he actually is done. And that's me believing that most of his regression recently has been mental, even if he squares that part away, the physical regression is inevitable.
It's pretty clear how the Giants are approaching this, I just don't think it's the right call.
So much depends on where they land. Even a top prospect like Luck has been hamstrung by incompetent management, while a third rounder in Russell Wilson landed in an excellent organization and won a Super Bowl.
Remove the names involved: if you were advising a team with a 37 year old QB coming off one of the worst seasons of his career, how would you tell them to proceed?
Objectivity is needed here. What happened in the past is moot. What is Eli going to be?
If I loved one of the qbs im definitely taking a qb. Absolutely. Even with Barkley on the board I’d take the qb and I love Barkley.
"just give Eli a great OL and he'll be great" should really be put to rest already. A lot of QBs would be awesome with amazing OLs. Eli had a below average OL in 2011 and we won the Super Bowl. He's not the same player he was then. If you're OL is average, you have to make up for it in some way and he just isn't doing that right now. The Eli we saw in the 2012 championship game against SF would probably just fall down before getting hit now instead of firing rockets down the middle right before getting lit up.
Is he a good QB? I think he still is, yes. Can he still sling it when he has time every so often like both Philly games? Yes. But overall is he playing like a franchise QB at the current moment? No. We are basically banking on him turning it around and playing at a very high level if we don't take a QB in this draft. The team isn't good enough to get by with Eli's warts. This isn't the 2006-2010 roster or even the 2011 roster. If we don't draft a QB, Webb better be damn good.
What were the other teams’ offers like for Solder? Â
We're just ignoring playing environment? I'd say that is a big factor when evaluating a player's performance
Of course it is. But this isn't the first year Eli has struggled.
I think it's a pretty safe bet that one of the QB's drafted in April will be better than 37/38 year old Eli Manning within their first 2 seasons.
Some of you guys are blaming Eli's struggles on everything BUT Eli. He's had awful conditions, but he's also missing a lot of throws and not playing at a high level even when he does have some time to throw.
For every game against the Eagles where he threw for like 450 yards, there are about 7-10 performances that aren't even close.
I think sentimentality is absolutely clouding a lot of the visions here.
"just give Eli a great OL and he'll be great" should really be put to rest already. A lot of QBs would be awesome with amazing OLs. Eli had a below average OL in 2011 and we won the Super Bowl. He's not the same player he was then. If you're OL is average, you have to make up for it in some way and he just isn't doing that right now. The Eli we saw in the 2012 championship game against SF would probably just fall down before getting hit now instead of firing rockets down the middle right before getting lit up.
Is he a good QB? I think he still is, yes. Can he still sling it when he has time every so often like both Philly games? Yes. But overall is he playing like a franchise QB at the current moment? No. We are basically banking on him turning it around and playing at a very high level if we don't take a QB in this draft. The team isn't good enough to get by with Eli's warts. This isn't the 2006-2010 roster or even the 2011 roster. If we don't draft a QB, Webb better be damn good.
I can't say if you're point is valid or not. Truthfully, I don't think you can either. But I would say that there are gradations of sub-par and there are gradations of good. I feel like you can can overcome some sub-par but if you can't overcome a different sub-par, that's not *necessarily* on you. 2011 is below average; could 2011 Eli succeed with the 2018 cast? hat is unanswerable. Would he have won 3 games this year with a group of girl scouts (also sub-par as pro player) as his teammates? Maybe. Maybe 3 wins is Eli's level, no matter the circumstances, and nothing else matters.
Here's the issue. If Eli plays well this year, in my opinion, he will be allowed to finish his contract. They didn't release him this year- do you honestly think he would be released off a good year? Having the number 2 pick in the draft sit for 2 years is a terrible use of resources in a cap era. I stand by my conviction eli can still play and I think the giants are being transparent about this. Time will tell though and well see but I think unless its Darnold, maybe, were taking Barkley.
RE: What were the other teams’ offers like for Solder? Â
Now you're talking. I don't think it's any QB at #2, I think it's Darnold or they go Barkley if he's there. I've been consistent in that, and that I don't think one of the other QBs will measure up at #2. A hunch.
They can let Eli finish his contract, and they well might do it because sentimentality is part of the equation at play right now. But, it doesn't mean they can't draft a QB they covet at #2.
I'd rather draft Darnold and be ready for him to potentially step in in 2019, rather then skip him and put it all on Eli.
a year in which he played very well, did what was asked of him, took what they gave him. Whatever, it won games.
He also played well enough to win in Green Bay while his receivers dropped a million passes.
Eli is not still as good as his most ardent supporters think he is. I don't believe he's as bad as the typical "Eli throws high slants and get Beckham hurt" crowd.
He likely has 1-2 years left of adequate play if part of a good roster. He is not carrying a team any longer, but he definitely still can manage games and perform at a winning level.
have a high watermark in their career. Eli's was 2011. He isn't as good as he was then. This is not a bad thing, it's just time/factual. That being said, I do love me some Saquon and wouldn't be the slightest bit upset if he was the guy. If it's him, then we better hope that Webb is the goods.
Here's the issue. If Eli plays well this year, in my opinion, he will be allowed to finish his contract. They didn't release him this year- do you honestly think he would be released off a good year? Having the number 2 pick in the draft sit for 2 years is a terrible use of resources in a cap era. I stand by my conviction eli can still play and I think the giants are being transparent about this. Time will tell though and well see but I think unless its Darnold, maybe, were taking Barkley.
Depends on what they do in the draft. Phil Simms had one of his best seasons in 1993 and the Giants cut him for Dave Brown. You are also making the assumption that Eli will magically revert back to what...his 2014-2015 form? Because he sucked in 2013 and wasn't very good in 2016 and 2017. Extenuating circumstances? Most likely. But he's 37 and those 2011 moments are fewer and fewer.
But there is a good chance you are right that Eli plays out his final two years here. But I can see him doing that and still playing at a very mediocre level. And we then have wasted two more years.
Look, Mara, Reese, and Ross screwed the team around Eli the last six years. But you can't go back in time and fit it. It's done. You have to move on.
We're just ignoring playing environment? I'd say that is a big factor when evaluating a player's performance
Of course it is. But this isn't the first year Eli has struggled.
I think it's a pretty safe bet that one of the QB's drafted in April will be better than 37/38 year old Eli Manning within their first 2 seasons.
Some of you guys are blaming Eli's struggles on everything BUT Eli. He's had awful conditions, but he's also missing a lot of throws and not playing at a high level even when he does have some time to throw.
For every game against the Eagles where he threw for like 450 yards, there are about 7-10 performances that aren't even close.
I think sentimentality is absolutely clouding a lot of the visions here.
Players aren't robots, after being in a situation long enough it wears on you. The OL has been a mess for a while. It has a cumlative affect.
Not that long ago Mac was brought in, he and coughlin combined schemes and Manning played well. Coughlin leaves, the ol doesn't get better, maybe gets worse, Mac possibly strips coughlin's part of the offense, which seems like the only good part, Manning struggles. Manning deserves benefit of the doubt
I get your feelings and respect them. I guess a lot of this comes down to I really think eli has more in the tank then you do. I guess well see because he'll have no excuses this year. I think well continue to be aggressive this off-season
have a high watermark in their career. Eli's was 2011. He isn't as good as he was then. This is not a bad thing, it's just time/factual. That being said, I do love me some Saquon and wouldn't be the slightest bit upset if he was the guy. If it's him, then we better hope that Webb is the goods.
I don't even believe that. I really believe that if we focus the next two years on keeping OBJ, havign Barkley, Engram, Shepard, a *decent* #2 WR, and work on improving the OL (and defense tweaks)..all stuff that the next two drafts and FA would make reasonable, that Trent Dilfer or Jim McMahon would be highly successful. And those guys are available every year.
Doesn't matter what the reasons or exucses are for past performance. Â
those guys are available every year because they aren't franchise QBs. It would be silly to think we can get by with a band aid to the QB position after Eli and not a future plan.
Record I'm not against drafting a QB at 2. Manning certainly is an older qb, the Giants are in a great position to possibly get another franchise type qb.
I think you try to win with Manning now, because I believe he still has it, while drafting a QB and let him come in when the time is right. Sooner or later
Remove the names involved: if you were advising a team with a 37 year old QB coming off one of the worst seasons of his career, how would you tell them to proceed?
Objectivity is needed here. What happened in the past is moot. What is Eli going to be?
I don't think you ever just hand the reigns of a team to a rookie. The Browns acquired Tyrod Taylor for that exact reason. I think Eli is still better than Tyrod Taylor (and most of the other QB's getting insane contracts this offseason) and I see no reason to believe he wouldn't also be a great mentor to any young QB.
If I thought there was a franchise QB at 2 next month I'd take him without hesitation. That decision wouldn't change my approach in FA to surround him with the best team possible, especially a good OL. Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson aren't as effective as they were right away if they didn't have great running games.
So to me whether it's Eli or Sam Darnold, my approach to FA and rebuilding this roster would have probably still included going after Andrew Norwell and Nate Solder.
There are other possibilities such as taking a HOF level Guard after a trade back and if Eli doesnt play well you find yourself with 2 number 1 picks in 2019.
There is also the possibility of forcing the pick on a QB who sucks and watching Barkley and Nelson go on to all-pro careers elsewhere.
There is also the possibility of drafting Barkley or Nelson and Webb takes over in 2019 and finds success in Shurmur's system after a seamless transition.
It's not draft a QB with the #2 pick or the Giants are stupid.
Solder is a 30 year old LT and is very good. It's the most important position on the football field besides QB. This was a good move. Not sure how else you can swing it.
Respectfuly disagree about Eli. Think there's a little left in the tank but you absolutely have to support him with a good OLine and running game.
New DC should help too.
Darnold is my guy. If they decide no QB is worth, so be it.
But, we're going to be back at the top of the draft again before long.
It's the percentage play.
Quote:
So much depends on where they land. Even a top prospect like Luck has been hamstrung by incompetent management, while a third rounder in Russell Wilson landed in an excellent organization and won a Super Bowl.
Remove the names involved: if you were advising a team with a 37 year old QB coming off one of the worst seasons of his career, how would you tell them to proceed?
Objectivity is needed here. What happened in the past is moot. What is Eli going to be?
Eli is going to be better than any other QB option available to us during the next two years.
The second overall pick is not the only way to find a good QB these days. Russell Wilson (as you mentioned), Kirk Cousins, Jimmy Garapolo were all had in later rounds.
There are many ways to build a team. System and controlling the LOS seem to be the option du jour these days, not the "get the QB and build around him", see Andrew Luck (as you mentioned).
That's quite an assumption. There's no way of knowing that. And given the talent level of this current class and what a guy like Watson was able to do when he got thrown into the fire, I'd be willing to bet this won't be true.
Look at what Wentz and Goff did in year 2. Both guys were better than Eli this year by a pretty wide margin.
We'll see where we're at when the dust settles, around November/December.
(1) the offensive line was a mess
(2) our running backs were not good
(3) Brandon Marshall sucked then got hurt
(4) our quarterback didn't play well
I saw plenty of plays where Eli had plenty of time with wide open receivers and he misfired. I saw plenty of times we were in 3rd-and-10 because our RB couldn't hit a hole. I saw plenty of times where our receivers were blanketed. I saw plenty of times where our offensive line or tight ends couldn't block.
It wasn't all just the OL. And if you think it was, we're screwed because the OL isn't going to magically turnaround in 2018.
The OL can “magically” turn around if they draft well. Good rookie OL are impacting immediately in the league.
Goff, maybe. Not Wentz.
He's far more mobile than Eli and just a better player right now. It's really not even that close, honestly.
Wentz was an MVP candidate last year. Eli hasn't even been in the conversation since 2011.
There's no crow to be eaten. I have not said that you're wrong, just that the certainty you seem to have isn't based on anything that you can possibly be certain about. Everything the team has said and done that you claim is proof that they're doing one thing, would be exactly the same if they were doing the complete opposite.
My point is just that your certainty stems solely from what you hope will happen, not from anything that definitively points in that direction.
EXACTLY!! Look I agree we are overpaying, but we are paying for our past sins!! Would everyone rather Gettleman sit on his hands and sign no one, then draft as many O-Linemen as he can. listen, Solder is no slouch, he will provide some much needed veteran leadership on that line. let's hope Gettleman can find another piece for the Line in F/A and add a draft pick or two to the mix.
The only stats where elite is elite is Super Bowl wins. He is a guy who raises his game in the playoffs. I would compare him to Claude Lemieux, a guy who was decent in the NHL regular seaslon but became the best player on the ice in the playoffs.
Most of his career Eli has been somewhere around the 8-12th best QB in the NFL. His career numbers are predicated on durability (very important for a QB), not because he was ever in a class with Brees or Peyton.
So, now he is probably the 12th best qb rather than the 7th or 8th. But he is still basically the same guy. Before, he was a bit overrated by Giants fans and we all would bristle when national media often failed to list Eli among the top QBs. Now, it has gone the other way, he is being undertated.
It is undeniable his game has declined a bit, but if you gave him the 2011 OL and Cruz and Nicks, he would still put numbers.
Marvin Austin instead of Marcus Gilbert (2011)
Ruben Randle instead of Brandon Brooks (2012)
Justin Pugh instead of Travis Frederick (2013)
Weston Richburg instead of Trai Turner (2014)
Ereck Flowers instead of Andrus Peat (2015)
Eli Apple instead of Laremy Tunsil (2016)
We'll see where we're at when the dust settles, around November/December.
Sounds good, but I don't want to hear anymore excuses either.
The only stats where elite is elite is Super Bowl wins. He is a guy who raises his game in the playoffs. I would compare him to Claude Lemieux, a guy who was decent in the NHL regular seaslon but became the best player on the ice in the playoffs.
Most of his career Eli has been somewhere around the 8-12th best QB in the NFL. His career numbers are predicated on durability (very important for a QB), not because he was ever in a class with Brees or Peyton.
So, now he is probably the 12th best qb rather than the 7th or 8th. But he is still basically the same guy. Before, he was a bit overrated by Giants fans and we all would bristle when national media often failed to list Eli among the top QBs. Now, it has gone the other way, he is being undertated.
It is undeniable his game has declined a bit, but if you gave him the 2011 OL and Cruz and Nicks, he would still put numbers.
Only Player to show up in the Green Bay Fiasco! which lends credence to what you said about his game when he's in the playoffs, he's a different QB.
I've said this, as well. But apparently some think you can't draft a QB at 2 and win anymore, which is odd considering Carson Wentz exists.
If we're going it for it this year & talking about 'one side eating crow', then the team better win alot of games AND have a pretty good playoff run. Not one and done. But win a couple of games in the playoffs.
Again, objectivity is needed. I will give you two numbers that are objective: age and cap number.
The only stats where elite is elite is Super Bowl wins. He is a guy who raises his game in the playoffs. I would compare him to Claude Lemieux, a guy who was decent in the NHL regular seaslon but became the best player on the ice in the playoffs.
Most of his career Eli has been somewhere around the 8-12th best QB in the NFL. His career numbers are predicated on durability (very important for a QB), not because he was ever in a class with Brees or Peyton.
So, now he is probably the 12th best qb rather than the 7th or 8th. But he is still basically the same guy. Before, he was a bit overrated by Giants fans and we all would bristle when national media often failed to list Eli among the top QBs. Now, it has gone the other way, he is being undertated.
It is undeniable his game has declined a bit, but if you gave him the 2011 OL and Cruz and Nicks, he would still put numbers.
This is the best take on Eli I've seen on this board. Overrated by Giants fans in his prime and overrated in his decline recently. He's always been a top 1/3 of the league starter with special intangibles. He's probably regressed a little to middle of the pack with special intangibles. My problem with loading up behind Eli is that we won't be able to build a good enough roster to take advantage of those intangibles before he actually is done. And that's me believing that most of his regression recently has been mental, even if he squares that part away, the physical regression is inevitable.
It's pretty clear how the Giants are approaching this, I just don't think it's the right call.
He was the MVP that year, in truest sense of what those letters stand for.
Remove the names involved: if you were advising a team with a 37 year old QB coming off one of the worst seasons of his career, how would you tell them to proceed?
Objectivity is needed here. What happened in the past is moot. What is Eli going to be?
If I loved one of the qbs im definitely taking a qb. Absolutely. Even with Barkley on the board I’d take the qb and I love Barkley.
Is he a good QB? I think he still is, yes. Can he still sling it when he has time every so often like both Philly games? Yes. But overall is he playing like a franchise QB at the current moment? No. We are basically banking on him turning it around and playing at a very high level if we don't take a QB in this draft. The team isn't good enough to get by with Eli's warts. This isn't the 2006-2010 roster or even the 2011 roster. If we don't draft a QB, Webb better be damn good.
If you need the guy then that’s what it takes.
Of course it is. But this isn't the first year Eli has struggled.
I think it's a pretty safe bet that one of the QB's drafted in April will be better than 37/38 year old Eli Manning within their first 2 seasons.
Some of you guys are blaming Eli's struggles on everything BUT Eli. He's had awful conditions, but he's also missing a lot of throws and not playing at a high level even when he does have some time to throw.
For every game against the Eagles where he threw for like 450 yards, there are about 7-10 performances that aren't even close.
I think sentimentality is absolutely clouding a lot of the visions here.
Is he a good QB? I think he still is, yes. Can he still sling it when he has time every so often like both Philly games? Yes. But overall is he playing like a franchise QB at the current moment? No. We are basically banking on him turning it around and playing at a very high level if we don't take a QB in this draft. The team isn't good enough to get by with Eli's warts. This isn't the 2006-2010 roster or even the 2011 roster. If we don't draft a QB, Webb better be damn good.
If you need the guy then that’s what it takes.
Supposedly the Giants outbid the Texans and Patriots.
They can let Eli finish his contract, and they well might do it because sentimentality is part of the equation at play right now. But, it doesn't mean they can't draft a QB they covet at #2.
I'd rather draft Darnold and be ready for him to potentially step in in 2019, rather then skip him and put it all on Eli.
He also played well enough to win in Green Bay while his receivers dropped a million passes.
Eli is not still as good as his most ardent supporters think he is. I don't believe he's as bad as the typical "Eli throws high slants and get Beckham hurt" crowd.
He likely has 1-2 years left of adequate play if part of a good roster. He is not carrying a team any longer, but he definitely still can manage games and perform at a winning level.
Depends on what they do in the draft. Phil Simms had one of his best seasons in 1993 and the Giants cut him for Dave Brown. You are also making the assumption that Eli will magically revert back to what...his 2014-2015 form? Because he sucked in 2013 and wasn't very good in 2016 and 2017. Extenuating circumstances? Most likely. But he's 37 and those 2011 moments are fewer and fewer.
But there is a good chance you are right that Eli plays out his final two years here. But I can see him doing that and still playing at a very mediocre level. And we then have wasted two more years.
Look, Mara, Reese, and Ross screwed the team around Eli the last six years. But you can't go back in time and fit it. It's done. You have to move on.
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We're just ignoring playing environment? I'd say that is a big factor when evaluating a player's performance
Of course it is. But this isn't the first year Eli has struggled.
I think it's a pretty safe bet that one of the QB's drafted in April will be better than 37/38 year old Eli Manning within their first 2 seasons.
Some of you guys are blaming Eli's struggles on everything BUT Eli. He's had awful conditions, but he's also missing a lot of throws and not playing at a high level even when he does have some time to throw.
For every game against the Eagles where he threw for like 450 yards, there are about 7-10 performances that aren't even close.
I think sentimentality is absolutely clouding a lot of the visions here.
Players aren't robots, after being in a situation long enough it wears on you. The OL has been a mess for a while. It has a cumlative affect.
Not that long ago Mac was brought in, he and coughlin combined schemes and Manning played well. Coughlin leaves, the ol doesn't get better, maybe gets worse, Mac possibly strips coughlin's part of the offense, which seems like the only good part, Manning struggles. Manning deserves benefit of the doubt
I think you try to win with Manning now, because I believe he still has it, while drafting a QB and let him come in when the time is right. Sooner or later