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Giants Got SOLDER

adamg : 3/14/2018 10:42 am
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Ian Rapoport
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The #Giants are expected to sign former #Patriots LT Nate Solder, source said. They get their franchise left tackle. Huge get.
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This was a desperation signing  
eclipz928 : 3/15/2018 6:52 am : link
plain and simple. Gettleman let's Pugh out the door, whiffs on Norwell, and is left with making Nate Solder the highest paid tackle in the league to get him to come on board.

Of course we're all in favor of the Giants improving the line, with the understanding that it costs money - but this was not a savvy move. Solder may not even be a top 10 tackle in the NFL, yet they're giving him $34 mil guaranteed. Huge gamble that can really set the franchise back if it doesn't work out.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: As much as I wanted Norwell, it's not like they didn't try.  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2018 6:53 am : link
In comment 13866666 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13866572 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 13866561 Ten Ton Hammer said:


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In comment 13866548 BillKo said:


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In comment 13866393 Ten Ton Hammer said:


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At least they got someone who can play. I just don't know what to take from this as regards the draft.



Hammer, what is your concern with this signing in regards to the draft?

We can go in any direction.............how would signing Norwell had given you a different vision?



Norwell's four years younger. You can build around that.

Solder isn't ancient by any stretch, but signing a guy like that suggests to me they are leaning more heavily toward moves that make the team competitive in the short term rather than laying the foundation for the long term. I don't think you sign a guy at 30 if you're working on plan that you expect to return to meaningful games and consistent winning in two years.



What’s the difference between Solder playing solid LT for 4 years and Norwells contract expiring after 5? 1 year means our entire thought process at OL changes?

I just don’t get this line of thinking. We didn’t sign a 35 year old tackle . We signed a guy who can help us now and 2 years from now.



The difference is maximizing the use of the player while he's in his best years. You sign a guy at 30, you don't sit around. There are expectations and rightfully so. A younger player does buy you a bit of time to construct a roster. And if you are actively trying to win now, there's plenty of argument for kicking the QB need can further down the road. If that's their plan, which I have no idea about, I don't think that's wise.


Nor well got paid as the top Guard in the NFL, there’s no waiting around for him to be good either. Signing Norwell doesn’t mean we have more time to build a roster, the return on his investment starts now.

Solder and Norwells age are irrelevant in this scenario. If we signed either it would be to get better instantly, not in 2 years from now.
RE: This was a desperation signing  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/15/2018 6:59 am : link
In comment 13866771 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
plain and simple. Gettleman let's Pugh out the door, whiffs on Norwell, and is left with making Nate Solder the highest paid tackle in the league to get him to come on board.

Of course we're all in favor of the Giants improving the line, with the understanding that it costs money - but this was not a savvy move. Solder may not even be a top 10 tackle in the NFL, yet they're giving him $34 mil guaranteed. Huge gamble that can really set the franchise back if it doesn't work out.


You're exaggerating plain and simple. I don't know about the "really set the franchise back" bit. This team is still looking to have a good amount of cap room next season, and more big contracts coming off the books with Eli and JPP.

Could it be that you see the glass as half empty?

Nah, Giants fans never do that. ;)
The cap is very healthy  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/15/2018 7:01 am : link
I don't know why this contract upsets anybody. Especially considering how awful the OL has been.
“Could set the franchise back”  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2018 7:08 am : link
one of my favorite BBI cliches. Yes, signing a good LT will definitely set us back for years.

Unreal.
RE: RE: So Eli has a #1 and #2 WR  
twostepgiants : 3/15/2018 7:16 am : link
In comment [url=index.php?mode=2&thread

Let me know what else is need for him to score 30 points in a game sometime this decade...

Another piece or two to upgrade the OL. A 3rd WR, and a HC/OC who can put a good game plan in place along with changing personnel so they don't have the same guys on the field 90% of the time. Oh and some NFL quality play calling would help too. [/quote]

So your saying that Eli really needs to have perfect conditions. Considering he has a "generational talent" at WR already, some really good pieces in Engram/Shephard, and we just signed 2 OL and 1 is very good.

Id wager alot of NFL QBs can succeed with that scenario. Good coaching, Good OL, awesome WRs.
Short Lease  
twostepgiants : 3/15/2018 7:27 am : link
By your own words on this thread you should be happy with this signing. You thought Solder was 32 and would have 2 years. He just turned 30. Logically then you should think he has 4 years left of good play. Which is the length of his contract.
Nate Solder is now the highest paid lineman  
eclipz928 : 3/15/2018 7:38 am : link
(not just among tackles) in the league.

In terms of salary he will be making over $2 million more per year than the player closest to him (currently Norwell).

He's a "good" player being paid like he's a future hall of famer. You can call me Mr. glass half empty, but if this continues to be Gettleman's approach to free agency it will not be sustainable.
RE: Nate Solder is now the highest paid lineman  
ZogZerg : 3/15/2018 7:40 am : link
In comment 13866801 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
(not just among tackles) in the league.

In terms of salary he will be making over $2 million more per year than the player closest to him (currently Norwell).

He's a "good" player being paid like he's a future hall of famer. You can call me Mr. glass half empty, but if this continues to be Gettleman's approach to free agency it will not be sustainable.


I guess you haven't been paying attention to the contracts for FAs this year.
RE: Nate Solder is now the highest paid lineman  
Mike in NY : 3/15/2018 7:45 am : link
In comment 13866801 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
(not just among tackles) in the league.

In terms of salary he will be making over $2 million more per year than the player closest to him (currently Norwell).

He's a "good" player being paid like he's a future hall of famer. You can call me Mr. glass half empty, but if this continues to be Gettleman's approach to free agency it will not be sustainable.


That is only 1) if he plays out his contract and 2) that could very well change with the next big OL signing as this will be model. Years 3 & 4 it costs substantially more to retain Solder than the cap hit for cutting him.
There is a real undercurrent on this site that if you try to win games  
Bill L : 3/15/2018 7:56 am : link
over the next two years, that you are doing a disservice to the franchise, the NFL, and maybe to the entire planet.

Solder helps us win now and will help the "transition" to the future. His signing simply means that we don't actually *need* to the "Trust the Process" or "let's get Mark Cuban fined" route that some people seem to want to embark upon.

And, since it always seem to come back to Eli, it's odd that the criticism is that he is no longer able to elevate shitty players around him. The solution, logically, would therefore be to not put shitty players around him, but instead put good players around him and remove the elevation burden.

But then, when you attempt to surround him with a stellar #1 WR, a quality #3 WR (Shep is a 3 not a 2), a potentially quality TE, and a quality OL, the plan is met with derision that includes extreme resistance to additionally adding a potentially superlative rushing attack.

RE: RE: RE: So Eli has a #1 and #2 WR  
Bill L : 3/15/2018 7:57 am : link
In comment 13866788 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment [url=index.php?mode=2&thread

Let me know what else is need for him to score 30 points in a game sometime this decade...

Another piece or two to upgrade the OL. A 3rd WR, and a HC/OC who can put a good game plan in place along with changing personnel so they don't have the same guys on the field 90% of the time. Oh and some NFL quality play calling would help too.


So your saying that Eli really needs to have perfect conditions. Considering he has a "generational talent" at WR already, some really good pieces in Engram/Shephard, and we just signed 2 OL and 1 is very good.

Id wager alot of NFL QBs can succeed with that scenario. Good coaching, Good OL, awesome WRs. [/quote]It's freaking bizarre that it's a negative to try to have breadth in good players.
RE: Nate Solder is now the highest paid lineman  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2018 8:36 am : link
In comment 13866801 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
(not just among tackles) in the league.

In terms of salary he will be making over $2 million more per year than the player closest to him (currently Norwell).

He's a "good" player being paid like he's a future hall of famer. You can call me Mr. glass half empty, but if this continues to be Gettleman's approach to free agency it will not be sustainable.


It’s 1 signing to get the 2nd hardest position to fill in football which has the most significant impact on the #1 most difficult position to fill in football.

Gettelman made 2 other signings yesterday which weren’t for the highest paid guys at their positions. So what on earth are you worried about?
Bill..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/15/2018 8:36 am : link
I don't get it. I keep hearing people clamor for a "complete overhaul", yet a fair portion of the roster will turn over, we have a new coach, GM and assistants, and we have guys we know we'll be replacing next year to free up cap space and all I keep hear after every signing is that these new players are getting in the way of the "2-3 year rebuild".

I honestly don't know what the fuck most of BBI is talking about anymore.
RE: Bill..  
ryanmkeane : 3/15/2018 8:41 am : link
In comment 13866848 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I don't get it. I keep hearing people clamor for a "complete overhaul", yet a fair portion of the roster will turn over, we have a new coach, GM and assistants, and we have guys we know we'll be replacing next year to free up cap space and all I keep hear after every signing is that these new players are getting in the way of the "2-3 year rebuild".

I honestly don't know what the fuck most of BBI is talking about anymore.

That's pretty much how I feel at this point. Look - I love this place. And I respect everyone's posts and opinions. But when you ask for something, you get it, and then you still bitch, that's when you lose me.
For me I think  
ryanmkeane : 3/15/2018 8:45 am : link
one of the main things on this board lately is posters who think that if you can't admit that the Giants are 6-7 years away from going to the Super Bowl then somehow you are delusional.

The Jaguars were about 5 minutes away from the Super Bowl last year after being quite literally the worst team in the league for multiple years. They have a QB who isn't good at all. But what happened? They changed the coach, the culture, beefed up the lines, and got a legit all pro running back. So unless that didn't happen, the Giants can compete next year. They can compete the year after, and the year after. Will they? I'm not sure. But it's possible.
RE: RE: RE: So Eli has a #1 and #2 WR  
Eman11 : 3/15/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 13866744 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13866725 Eman11 said:


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In comment 13866716 Jimmy Googs said:


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a #1 TE, and now the highest paid Left Tackle in the game.

My guess is they will add some type of speed/3rd down back for him in FA or the draft to go along with the 2 other running backs they drafted in the last two years.

Let me know what else is need for him to score 30 points in a game sometime this decade...



Another piece or two to upgrade the OL. A 3rd WR, and a HC/OC who can put a good game plan in place along with changing personnel so they don't have the same guys on the field 90% of the time. Oh and some NFL quality play calling would help too.



anything else? are you sure he doesn't need some more pieces to succeed??



Nah, that would be it. I'd say it's more about some competent coaching/game planning than having a lot more pieces on the field. They've addressed the OLine which was a must, and will be getting a healthy OBJ back but still need another WR IMO

I don't think many if any QBs would've been putting up 30 points last year with what Eli had with him, both on the field and on the sidelines.
What’s even funnier is the Rams were 4-12 in 2016  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2018 9:10 am : link
got a new head coach, signed Whitworth (which I was against due to age) and then had one of the best offenses in the NFL going 11-5. Gurley, in a new offense under he new HC had one of he best seasons in history at the RB position.

So was signing an aging tackle a part of that playoff run or did he hinder it? I was wrong about how he’d hold up, I fully admit t. We signed a guy 6 years younger but somehow he will hold up the future of the team?

The nfl doesn’t operate in 5+ year cycles anymore, it’s not 1990. You can change on a dime, I don’t know how many example of this some of you people need.
You guys always worrying about the money  
djm : 3/15/2018 9:14 am : link
Even Vernon, who while not incredible these last 2 years has been very good. His presence here is a good thing. He’s a playmaking versatile disruptor who will betcher get this D going yet for many people here Vernon is seen as dead weight all due to over stated salary.

The best teams going all over pay in FA. It’s part of the deal. Sticker shock every frickin year from a bunch of people .. every one. And in most cases these same fans are overstating their concerns based on a faulty understanding of the player’s salary or cap.

The only concern is if a player can’t play. Some exceptions like the dolphins paying suh super elite qb money when they didn’t even have a qb or identy.
Suh needed to go somewhere with better insulation.

Just relax about the money. Maybe this team has more talent than some of you. When you look at the PLAYERS on this front 7 and allow for a little belief that these guys can adapt to the 3-4 this could be a nasty unit.

Oh yeah, we have a LT that can play allowing flowers to try other positions. Nothing else needs to be said. Pay that dude!! And be happy about it!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: As much as I wanted Norwell, it's not like they didn't try.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/15/2018 9:14 am : link
In comment 13866772 UConn4523 said:
Quote:


Nor well got paid as the top Guard in the NFL, there’s no waiting around for him to be good either. Signing Norwell doesn’t mean we have more time to build a roster, the return on his investment starts now.

Solder and Norwells age are irrelevant in this scenario. If we signed either it would be to get better instantly, not in 2 years from now.


By definition, signing a younger player means you're getting more of his prime years. So yes, you do have more time. It's not irrelevant and we're not going to agree on this. A contract that gives you more of a players best years is better than a contract that gives you less of a player's best years.
RE: There is a real undercurrent on this site that if you try to win games  
Britt in VA : 3/15/2018 9:14 am : link
In comment 13866816 Bill L said:
Quote:
over the next two years, that you are doing a disservice to the franchise, the NFL, and maybe to the entire planet.

Solder helps us win now and will help the "transition" to the future. His signing simply means that we don't actually *need* to the "Trust the Process" or "let's get Mark Cuban fined" route that some people seem to want to embark upon.

And, since it always seem to come back to Eli, it's odd that the criticism is that he is no longer able to elevate shitty players around him. The solution, logically, would therefore be to not put shitty players around him, but instead put good players around him and remove the elevation burden.

But then, when you attempt to surround him with a stellar #1 WR, a quality #3 WR (Shep is a 3 not a 2), a potentially quality TE, and a quality OL, the plan is met with derision that includes extreme resistance to additionally adding a potentially superlative rushing attack.


It's pretty weird. Only thing I can think of is that the Giants aren't doing things the way they think they should be done, therefore it's doomed to fail.
RE: What’s even funnier is the Rams were 4-12 in 2016  
Britt in VA : 3/15/2018 9:15 am : link
In comment 13866913 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
got a new head coach, signed Whitworth (which I was against due to age) and then had one of the best offenses in the NFL going 11-5. Gurley, in a new offense under he new HC had one of he best seasons in history at the RB position.

So was signing an aging tackle a part of that playoff run or did he hinder it? I was wrong about how he’d hold up, I fully admit t. We signed a guy 6 years younger but somehow he will hold up the future of the team?

The nfl doesn’t operate in 5+ year cycles anymore, it’s not 1990. You can change on a dime, I don’t know how many example of this some of you people need.


The league is built for teams to go worst to first, and it happens with more and more frequency every year.
RE: Nyg07  
NYG07 : 3/15/2018 9:16 am : link
In comment 13866742 jtgiants said:
Quote:
One question. What if they take a qb but your wrong? What if we win games and eli plays well? Are you comfortable with a kid sitting 2 years? If Mara didn't cut eli now would he really cut him off a good year? To me That's something that needs serious discussion. The 2nd pick in the draft can't sit for 2 years imo


Yes, I am comfortable with that. The last thing we need is the Giants rolling the dice with Eli and being stuck as an 8-8 team with no QB in a couple years. Then they have to sacrifice a ton of assets to move up to get one. I would rather they take one now, even if they believe Eli still has something left.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: As much as I wanted Norwell, it's not like they didn't try.  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 13866918 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13866772 UConn4523 said:


Quote:




Nor well got paid as the top Guard in the NFL, there’s no waiting around for him to be good either. Signing Norwell doesn’t mean we have more time to build a roster, the return on his investment starts now.

Solder and Norwells age are irrelevant in this scenario. If we signed either it would be to get better instantly, not in 2 years from now.



By definition, signing a younger player means you're getting more of his prime years. So yes, you do have more time. It's not irrelevant and we're not going to agree on this. A contract that gives you more of a players best years is better than a contract that gives you less of a player's best years.


We actually do agree on that, you just weren’t doing a good job of explaining that or I simply wasn’t understanding you. But Solder isn’t 35 so I guess I’m just not worried about it.
The year the Panthers  
ryanmkeane : 3/15/2018 9:20 am : link
went 15-1 I remember saying before the year, they should be pretty awful. Ya just never know. Hell, the Jets could be a playoff team this year.
Solder  
stretch234 : 3/15/2018 9:24 am : link
LT salaries go up exponentially every year, regardless of top ability or not

A. Costanzo - Colts in 2015 signed a 4-43M w/14M SB & 35M guaranteed

T. Armstead - NO in 2016 signed 5-65 11M SB and 38m guaranteed - he has also missed 30 of 80 total games

R. Reiff - Min 2017 5-58M 11SB 28M guaranteed

M. Kalil - Car 2017 5-55M 12M SB and 31M guaranteed

It is a brutal position to find players
Nyg07  
jtgiants : 3/15/2018 9:27 am : link
Fair enough. Then you and I have no issues
The team  
ryanmkeane : 3/15/2018 9:31 am : link
being good the next 2 years and Darnold sitting behind Eli is easily the best case scenario.
RE: What’s even funnier is the Rams were 4-12 in 2016  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/15/2018 9:31 am : link
In comment 13866913 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
got a new head coach, signed Whitworth (which I was against due to age) and then had one of the best offenses in the NFL going 11-5. Gurley, in a new offense under he new HC had one of he best seasons in history at the RB position.

So was signing an aging tackle a part of that playoff run or did he hinder it? I was wrong about how he’d hold up, I fully admit t. We signed a guy 6 years younger but somehow he will hold up the future of the team?

The nfl doesn’t operate in 5+ year cycles anymore, it’s not 1990. You can change on a dime, I don’t know how many example of this some of you people need.


Sure, Whitworth absolutely helped them. The criticism of the idea of signing him was not about his ability to help a team in the first year. That was expected. It was about giving a big guarantee and multiple years given his age.And also about having completely legitimate and fair concerns about a guy that age staying healthy even for that first year.

And I'm not sure if I'm being difficult to understand or not, but I thought my opinion was fairly clear. I don't have a problem with Solder. However, if signing Nate Solder to that contract at 30 means the Giants think they're some kind of serious playoffs contender they want to build around Eli Manning expecting him to play well into his age 39 season, and they pass on the chance to draft a QB in favor of trading down or whatever, then I think it's another mistake by management just like sinking all your hopes on the health on a 36 year old lineman would have been for us. That's all.
why can't Solder be for now  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2018 9:35 am : link
and also be a solid LT when Eli is done? And Solder being added would help Darnold or Rosen in 2019 (neither is playing this year if we draft them) and he would also help Barkley if we go that route.
RE: why can't Solder be for now  
Sean : 3/15/2018 9:36 am : link
In comment 13866958 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and also be a solid LT when Eli is done? And Solder being added would help Darnold or Rosen in 2019 (neither is playing this year if we draft them) and he would also help Barkley if we go that route.


This. It’s both.
Guys..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/15/2018 9:40 am : link
like Solder are being signed to upgrade a position of need. It isn't to protect or lengthen Eli's or anyone else's careers.

It is part of improving a team that has been deficient for several years at specific positions.
RE: The team  
djm : 3/15/2018 9:42 am : link
In comment 13866948 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
being good the next 2 years and Darnold sitting behind Eli is easily the best case scenario.


Exactly!

Here’s the thing there’s nothing wrong with believing Eli has a little something left and being open to drafting the qb here in April. Matter of fact that’s probably the only way to think. It seems that some need to align themselves with thinking Eli is completely and having to draft a qb at all costs or thinking Eli has 4 years of awesomeness and avoiding the young qb like the plague.

And really  
djm : 3/15/2018 9:43 am : link
It’s possible that the Giants feel eli is nearing the end or at the end BUT they don’t love the qbs in this draft. Then what? You can’t force the issue and take a qb just because.

You have to allow for variances or grey area in this thing.
RE: Guys..  
djm : 3/15/2018 9:45 am : link
In comment 13866968 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
like Solder are being signed to upgrade a position of need. It isn't to protect or lengthen Eli's or anyone else's careers.

It is part of improving a team that has been deficient for several years at specific positions.


But fats, the Giants should be tearing this thing down. Never mind that tearing this down is impossible and stupid... You know that. Why are we signing good players? We were 3-13 last year!!!!!!
RE: And really  
NYG07 : 3/15/2018 9:51 am : link
In comment 13866973 djm said:
Quote:
It’s possible that the Giants feel eli is nearing the end or at the end BUT they don’t love the qbs in this draft. Then what? You can’t force the issue and take a qb just because.

You have to allow for variances or grey area in this thing.


I agree. If they truly believe none of these top 4 QBs in the draft will be franchise QBs then I will have to accept them passing on one. But if they pass on a QB they think will be a franchise QB just for the sake of trying to go all in on Eli the next year or two, then yes, I have a huge problem with it.

Also agree with Ryan. Winning the next couple of years and having a future franchise QB in the pipeline is the best case scenario.
3-13 is a bad crutch  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2018 9:52 am : link
many of the reasons why we were 3-13 are already out the door - Reese, McAdoo, bad starting OLineman, Beckham not being injured, and a brand new scheme on both sides of the ball.

Grasping to 3-13 is just a brutal argument.
RE: RE: And really  
Jay on the Island : 3/15/2018 9:55 am : link
In comment 13866983 NYG07 said:
Quote:

I agree. If they truly believe none of these top 4 QBs in the draft will be franchise QBs then I will have to accept them passing on one. But if they pass on a QB they think will be a franchise QB just for the sake of trying to go all in on Eli the next year or two, then yes, I have a huge problem with it.

Also agree with Ryan. Winning the next couple of years and having a future franchise QB in the pipeline is the best case scenario.


I think you have summed up how most of the supporters of Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, and Allen feel. I have a hard time believing that the Giants will put all their faith in Eli after allowing the benching etc. I hope I am right because if they pass on a QB solely to try to win once more with Eli then most of the fan base will be livid. Could you imagine the fan reaction and PR nightmare if they pass on a QB like Rosen and he ends up going to the Jets and turns into a franchise QB while Eli continues to regress and they become a struggling 6-10 to 7-9 team?
RE: Bill..  
BillKo : 3/15/2018 10:05 am : link
In comment 13866848 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I don't get it. I keep hearing people clamor for a "complete overhaul", yet a fair portion of the roster will turn over, we have a new coach, GM and assistants, and we have guys we know we'll be replacing next year to free up cap space and all I keep hear after every signing is that these new players are getting in the way of the "2-3 year rebuild".

I honestly don't know what the fuck most of BBI is talking about anymore.


Maybe people want us to draft a QB, then simply keep tanking for a few years. Then keep drafting blue chippers to put us in position to win big in about four years.

You know, something like the Sixers did in the NBA...........
RE: RE: RE: And really  
Mike in NY : 3/15/2018 10:07 am : link
In comment 13866993 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 13866983 NYG07 said:


Quote:



I agree. If they truly believe none of these top 4 QBs in the draft will be franchise QBs then I will have to accept them passing on one. But if they pass on a QB they think will be a franchise QB just for the sake of trying to go all in on Eli the next year or two, then yes, I have a huge problem with it.

Also agree with Ryan. Winning the next couple of years and having a future franchise QB in the pipeline is the best case scenario.



I think you have summed up how most of the supporters of Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, and Allen feel. I have a hard time believing that the Giants will put all their faith in Eli after allowing the benching etc. I hope I am right because if they pass on a QB solely to try to win once more with Eli then most of the fan base will be livid. Could you imagine the fan reaction and PR nightmare if they pass on a QB like Rosen and he ends up going to the Jets and turns into a franchise QB while Eli continues to regress and they become a struggling 6-10 to 7-9 team?


If Josh Rosen turns out to be a bust, Saquon Barkley (or whomever else we could have had at #2) leads a team to a Super Bowl, and Eli doesn't bottom out then the fan base will be livid. The presence of Manning and/or Webb on the roster should not rule out drafting a QB 2nd overall, but if the scouting staff is not confident that any option at #2 is a real upgrade over Manning and/or Webb you don't take one for the sake of taking one
RE: RE: RE: RE: And really  
Jay on the Island : 3/15/2018 10:08 am : link
In comment 13867025 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
The presence of Manning and/or Webb on the roster should not rule out drafting a QB 2nd overall, but if the scouting staff is not confident that any option at #2 is a real upgrade over Manning and/or Webb you don't take one for the sake of taking one

This is exactly what I was saying.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And really  
Mike in NY : 3/15/2018 10:14 am : link
In comment 13867029 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 13867025 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


The presence of Manning and/or Webb on the roster should not rule out drafting a QB 2nd overall, but if the scouting staff is not confident that any option at #2 is a real upgrade over Manning and/or Webb you don't take one for the sake of taking one


This is exactly what I was saying.


Maybe I misconstrued your post, but I thought you were advocating taking a QB at all cost just because one may be the real deal and we don't want him going to the Jets
RE: RE: And really  
djm : 3/15/2018 10:20 am : link
In comment 13866983 NYG07 said:
Quote:
In comment 13866973 djm said:


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It’s possible that the Giants feel eli is nearing the end or at the end BUT they don’t love the qbs in this draft. Then what? You can’t force the issue and take a qb just because.

You have to allow for variances or grey area in this thing.



I agree. If they truly believe none of these top 4 QBs in the draft will be franchise QBs then I will have to accept them passing on one. But if they pass on a QB they think will be a franchise QB just for the sake of trying to go all in on Eli the next year or two, then yes, I have a huge problem with it.

Also agree with Ryan. Winning the next couple of years and having a future franchise QB in the pipeline is the best case scenario.


Agreed 100%
RE: Short Lease  
short lease : 3/15/2018 11:02 am : link
In comment 13866795 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
By your own words on this thread you should be happy with this signing. You thought Solder was 32 and would have 2 years. He just turned 30. Logically then you should think he has 4 years left of good play. Which is the length of his contract.


I am ... I am happier. I never thought he was done. I just am not sure how much longer he will play. I might be wrong but, the pounding guys take in the NFL season after season - the body has to break down at a faster than normal rate? I am not a Dr. but, it seems like 30 is that "magical" threshold where players start(?) the drop-off?

I am glad he is 2 years younger than I originally thought. Who knows - maybe we just signed this generation's Jackie Slater? Fingers crossed.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And really  
Jay on the Island : 3/15/2018 11:06 am : link
In comment 13867042 Mike in NY said:
Quote:

Maybe I misconstrued your post, but I thought you were advocating taking a QB at all cost just because one may be the real deal and we don't want him going to the Jets

Sorry I should have been clear. None of the pro-QB supporters just want the Giants to take a QB just for the sake of taking one. If they conclude that none of these QB's are potential franchise QB's then I fully support a trade down or Barkley. I am a big fan of Rosen, Darnold, and Mayfield and I one of them to be the pick because I believe in them not because they play QB.
RE: There is a real undercurrent on this site that if you try to win games  
short lease : 3/15/2018 11:15 am : link
In comment 13866816 Bill L said:
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over the next two years, that you are doing a disservice to the franchise, the NFL, and maybe to the entire planet.

Solder helps us win now and will help the "transition" to the future. His signing simply means that we don't actually *need* to the "Trust the Process" or "let's get Mark Cuban fined" route that some people seem to want to embark upon.

And, since it always seem to come back to Eli, it's odd that the criticism is that he is no longer able to elevate shitty players around him. The solution, logically, would therefore be to not put shitty players around him, but instead put good players around him and remove the elevation burden.

But then, when you attempt to surround him with a stellar #1 WR, a quality #3 WR (Shep is a 3 not a 2), a potentially quality TE, and a quality OL, the plan is met with derision that includes extreme resistance to additionally adding a potentially superlative rushing attack.


Admittingly ... I do worry to much so, take it with a grain of salt - disservice to "The entire planet" has crossed my mind. But, what can you do? We have to win now .... and GM Gettleman seems to be signing guys like he believes that also.

Let future generations (Giant fans) figure out how to save the planet. They can do it - they will be a good bunch.
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arcarsenal : 3/15/2018 11:44 am : link
Have the Giants officially announced this yet?

I still don't think I've seen anything although the contract numbers did get out there.
For the sake of the discussion  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/15/2018 11:47 am : link
I'd be careful about assuming a player in his 30s has 4 good years left. You want to bank on that? Check the ages of McKenzie, O'Hara, Diehl, and Seubert when they were done.
anyone have the contract details (i.e. the hit against the salary cap  
Dave on the UWS : 3/15/2018 11:59 am : link
for this year)?
I was going to post this long diatribe here since my friend Eric seems to have that black cloud hovering over his head. The reality about whats going on with this team is that we are ALL guessing. Every poster, every beat writer, etc.
Eric could be right, this could be more "business as usual" for Mara, load up behind Eli don't worry about the future. It could be the opposite, DG is going peace by peace and trying to clean up the mess. The could pick Barkley, they could pick a QB, they could trade down. And you can view ALL these moves for now or for the future. It depends on the lens you use.

There's an old saying: "The past is a good indicator for the future". I look at Gettleman's past and see what contributions he made here. What he did in Carolina. What he has said here since taking over: "run the ball, stop the run, get after the QB".

What it seems like he is doing, is, after assessing his roster, his locker room, he is trying to 1. change the culture by clearing out what he can, and 2. fix the LB and OL units, both of which were unacceptable BEFORE injuries last year.
I heard bitching about Herzlich getting guaranteed money. He was resigned for the locker room, he's a high character guy, who can help on ST.

He signed Stewart who 's can help at RB but he will contribute just as much in the locker room and meeting room.

It seems like he will try to clear out under performers, over paid and too old players if he can. There are three notable exceptions: the 2 Eli's and JPP.
As Eric and others have pointed out, their contracts make trading them or cutting them virtually impossible.
Next year will be a different story. So in the short run, DG has said "clean slate" which may help Apple, and said they are moving forward with Manning (if for no other reason they have no choice.) From an HR perspective, considering the contracts, this was the right way to handle both. JPP is Bettcher's problem.

In conclusion, I don't think we will really know what's going on maybe not until next off season.
RE: For the sake of the discussion  
ryanmkeane : 3/15/2018 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13867325 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
I'd be careful about assuming a player in his 30s has 4 good years left. You want to bank on that? Check the ages of McKenzie, O'Hara, Diehl, and Seubert when they were done.

I don't think it's so much the age, it's the # of seasons played, wear and tear.

Solder has only played 7, mostly injury free seasons aside from the torn biceps in 2015. He should be fine.
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