The great Billy Ard - and time has proven how great he was - told me at OJAnderson golf event that Flowers should be moved to guard. ie William Roberts #NYG
The Giants did that with Roberts because he struggled at right tackle when he filled in for Karl Nelson in 1987 when Nelson got sick. And in 1988, he moved to left tackle after Benson retired and the Giants eventually put in Jumbo Elliott. He was awful at both spots. The Giants put him at guard as a last resort and he flourished.
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
RE: Guard is usually the last stop before a team gives up on a tackle
The Giants did that with Roberts because he struggled at right tackle when he filled in for Karl Nelson in 1987 when Nelson got sick. And in 1988, he moved to left tackle after Benson retired and the Giants eventually put in Jumbo Elliott. He was awful at both spots. The Giants put him at guard as a last resort and he flourished.
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
Difference between Moore and Roberts and Flowers is that Moore and Roberts were nimble footed, far more than the heavy footed Flowers. He is not a nimble dude..
Wheeler has a better chance of succeeding at RT than Flowers does. Maybe Flowers becomes a Fluker like Guard but even Fluker was just ok at Guard.
RE: Guard is usually the last stop before a team gives up on a tackle
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
This is what i agree with. Why not see how he does at RT first? Let him compete with Wheeler at RT and if Flowers loses then transition him inside to RG.
RE: RE: Guard is usually the last stop before a team gives up on a tackle
The Giants did that with Roberts because he struggled at right tackle when he filled in for Karl Nelson in 1987 when Nelson got sick. And in 1988, he moved to left tackle after Benson retired and the Giants eventually put in Jumbo Elliott. He was awful at both spots. The Giants put him at guard as a last resort and he flourished.
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
Difference between Moore and Roberts and Flowers is that Moore and Roberts were nimble footed, far more than the heavy footed Flowers. He is not a nimble dude..
Wheeler has a better chance of succeeding at RT than Flowers does. Maybe Flowers becomes a Fluker like Guard but even Fluker was just ok at Guard.
He's not heavy footed at all. He has no balance at all. Flowers is a decent height/weight/speed guy, he's always over his feet and leaning which makes it hard to employ any technique and use his power and long arms. His punch is terrible, and his hands are down by his waist. Balance is the source of most of these issues, not foot speed.
RE: RE: RE: Guard is usually the last stop before a team gives up on a tackle
The Giants did that with Roberts because he struggled at right tackle when he filled in for Karl Nelson in 1987 when Nelson got sick. And in 1988, he moved to left tackle after Benson retired and the Giants eventually put in Jumbo Elliott. He was awful at both spots. The Giants put him at guard as a last resort and he flourished.
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
Difference between Moore and Roberts and Flowers is that Moore and Roberts were nimble footed, far more than the heavy footed Flowers. He is not a nimble dude..
Wheeler has a better chance of succeeding at RT than Flowers does. Maybe Flowers becomes a Fluker like Guard but even Fluker was just ok at Guard.
He's not heavy footed at all. He has no balance at all. Flowers is a decent height/weight/speed guy, he's always over his feet and leaning which makes it hard to employ any technique and use his power and long arms. His punch is terrible, and his hands are down by his waist. Balance is the source of most of these issues, not foot speed.
Can a player improve his balance?
RE: RE: Guard is usually the last stop before a team gives up on a tackle
The Giants did that with Roberts because he struggled at right tackle when he filled in for Karl Nelson in 1987 when Nelson got sick. And in 1988, he moved to left tackle after Benson retired and the Giants eventually put in Jumbo Elliott. He was awful at both spots. The Giants put him at guard as a last resort and he flourished.
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
Difference between Moore and Roberts and Flowers is that Moore and Roberts were nimble footed, far more than the heavy footed Flowers. He is not a nimble dude..
Wheeler has a better chance of succeeding at RT than Flowers does. Maybe Flowers becomes a Fluker like Guard but even Fluker was just ok at Guard.
Yeah, Big William was a tremendous athlete. That athleticism flourished at LG. He didn't have to think about it as much. He was a sight to see as a pulling guard leading the sweep.
Flowers reminds me more of Moore. Big, powerful, move the pile, beat your guy up. Moore was a mental midget, 'roider and always in trouble, but you could see the drop in push when he was replaced by Bob Kratch.
I still think Flowers can be good in the right system and if his head is on straight. We'll see. If they run another finesse type scheme, I don't think he has a chance.
I'd be ready to go to war with that. Flowers lumbers too much and plays way too high to be a guard IMHO. Can't pull to block on edge stuff and really doesn't seem to have his heart in it. Another reason I don't like Orlando Brown.
Glad we got our LT and don't have to think McGlinchey, who is falling in the draft. So draft Nelson and an RB in round two OR take Barkley and try to trade up into the lower first round and draft Will Hernandez.
Especially if we'd already drafted Nelson and I'd also like to draft C-Billy Price. Wheeler will make a great swing tackle and provide good depth. I'd sign Fluker again to add into the mix on the right side.
guards have to have better technique inside and better recognition of stunts
They just dont have the same lighter feet...but the demands of the guard position are more technique, repeatable motions and habits even if lesser athletes.
Lastly, such a move could happen and quick enough if said player was coachable
Flowers has proven to be coachable?
Im sorry, the evalaution on Flowers has been made by the new coaches and the new GM
Wouldn't it make most sense to put Flowers next to Solder?
I've have been thinking the same. From what I have seen over these 3 years, Flowers struggles in space in terms of footwork to pick up a rusher. Moving him to RT, will just make teams start rushing from his side, as they do not have to worry about a QB running out if it (assuming it's Eli).
Inside may be the best place for him. Back in the late 80's the Giants had Eric Moore, who proved to be a far better G than T, even though he was drafted as a T. So I guess they could try it with Flowers if they have decided not cut bait on him
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
Difference between Moore and Roberts and Flowers is that Moore and Roberts were nimble footed, far more than the heavy footed Flowers. He is not a nimble dude..
Wheeler has a better chance of succeeding at RT than Flowers does. Maybe Flowers becomes a Fluker like Guard but even Fluker was just ok at Guard.
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
This is what i agree with. Why not see how he does at RT first? Let him compete with Wheeler at RT and if Flowers loses then transition him inside to RG.
Quote:
The Giants did that with Roberts because he struggled at right tackle when he filled in for Karl Nelson in 1987 when Nelson got sick. And in 1988, he moved to left tackle after Benson retired and the Giants eventually put in Jumbo Elliott. He was awful at both spots. The Giants put him at guard as a last resort and he flourished.
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
Difference between Moore and Roberts and Flowers is that Moore and Roberts were nimble footed, far more than the heavy footed Flowers. He is not a nimble dude..
Wheeler has a better chance of succeeding at RT than Flowers does. Maybe Flowers becomes a Fluker like Guard but even Fluker was just ok at Guard.
He's not heavy footed at all. He has no balance at all. Flowers is a decent height/weight/speed guy, he's always over his feet and leaning which makes it hard to employ any technique and use his power and long arms. His punch is terrible, and his hands are down by his waist. Balance is the source of most of these issues, not foot speed.
Quote:
In comment 13864809 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
The Giants did that with Roberts because he struggled at right tackle when he filled in for Karl Nelson in 1987 when Nelson got sick. And in 1988, he moved to left tackle after Benson retired and the Giants eventually put in Jumbo Elliott. He was awful at both spots. The Giants put him at guard as a last resort and he flourished.
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
Difference between Moore and Roberts and Flowers is that Moore and Roberts were nimble footed, far more than the heavy footed Flowers. He is not a nimble dude..
Wheeler has a better chance of succeeding at RT than Flowers does. Maybe Flowers becomes a Fluker like Guard but even Fluker was just ok at Guard.
He's not heavy footed at all. He has no balance at all. Flowers is a decent height/weight/speed guy, he's always over his feet and leaning which makes it hard to employ any technique and use his power and long arms. His punch is terrible, and his hands are down by his waist. Balance is the source of most of these issues, not foot speed.
Quote:
The Giants did that with Roberts because he struggled at right tackle when he filled in for Karl Nelson in 1987 when Nelson got sick. And in 1988, he moved to left tackle after Benson retired and the Giants eventually put in Jumbo Elliott. He was awful at both spots. The Giants put him at guard as a last resort and he flourished.
They did something similar with Eric Moore as well, but Moore wasn't as good as Roberts became.
I don't disagree with Ard that Flowers could be moved to guard, but I think the Giants should try him at right tackle first.
Difference between Moore and Roberts and Flowers is that Moore and Roberts were nimble footed, far more than the heavy footed Flowers. He is not a nimble dude..
Wheeler has a better chance of succeeding at RT than Flowers does. Maybe Flowers becomes a Fluker like Guard but even Fluker was just ok at Guard.
Yeah, Big William was a tremendous athlete. That athleticism flourished at LG. He didn't have to think about it as much. He was a sight to see as a pulling guard leading the sweep.
Flowers reminds me more of Moore. Big, powerful, move the pile, beat your guy up. Moore was a mental midget, 'roider and always in trouble, but you could see the drop in push when he was replaced by Bob Kratch.
I still think Flowers can be good in the right system and if his head is on straight. We'll see. If they run another finesse type scheme, I don't think he has a chance.
Our new GM saw it in < 2 months.
A " return to Giants football" (per JM) will not be a finesse offense.
EF has a shot@ RG.
A " return to Giants football" (per JM) will not be a finesse offense.
EF has a shot@ RG.
lets hope.
Glad we got our LT and don't have to think McGlinchey, who is falling in the draft. So draft Nelson and an RB in round two OR take Barkley and try to trade up into the lower first round and draft Will Hernandez.
Solder-Flowers-Jones-Nelson-McGlinchey
Wheeler-Halapio-Price-Greco-Fluker
He cannot get under people and drive them
he does not snap/use his hips
he does not use his hands well
guards have to have better technique inside and better recognition of stunts
They just dont have the same lighter feet...but the demands of the guard position are more technique, repeatable motions and habits even if lesser athletes.
Lastly, such a move could happen and quick enough if said player was coachable
Flowers has proven to be coachable?
Im sorry, the evalaution on Flowers has been made by the new coaches and the new GM
I've have been thinking the same. From what I have seen over these 3 years, Flowers struggles in space in terms of footwork to pick up a rusher. Moving him to RT, will just make teams start rushing from his side, as they do not have to worry about a QB running out if it (assuming it's Eli).
Inside may be the best place for him. Back in the late 80's the Giants had Eric Moore, who proved to be a far better G than T, even though he was drafted as a T. So I guess they could try it with Flowers if they have decided not cut bait on him