When we're talking about taking Barkley, Nelson, trade down, etc are we just hoping that Eli has 2-3 good years left in him if we can give him a competent O line as fans or do we really truthfully believe there's no QB worth taking at 2?
IF there's a franchise QB in this draft and the Giants believe there is one, it doesn't matter what you get offered, it doesn't matter who else is there, you take him.
I will say to the naked eye it would be impossible to determine make a fair assessment of whether a guy like Eli has anything left in the tank looking at games on TV last year. He basically played with and behind an offense for most of the year had players that would have played on the Westchester Bulls years ago. I am sure they are looking at other means to determine what Eli has left and whether any of these so called franchise QBs are for real.
+100000
That is the absolute truth.
I am fine with whatever they do. Yes fans have opinions, but to say one of these QB's is a sure thing franchise QB or Barkley is a can't miss, or Nelson is a sure fire thing is just crazy. We know next to nothing as fans.
Just sit back and enjoy the ride. We should be getting a very good player at 2 or get a boat load of picks.. but this is for DG and team to decide.. we should all stop acting like we know whats best.
It's lacking a great one AND having wasted a high pick and lots of money ON the one or ones you do have. That's hell.
If you have a cheap one your in position to add one.
See. Foles. Was he considered 'great'. Dak Prescott..considered great?
Or. How many times have the jets drafted one high? What did that gain them?
I'm not talking about guys who will make the observations that Eli has struggled. I'm talking about posters who literally post nothing that isn't eli related. It is like Russia is hacking BBI.
Seriously - it is fucking weird.
I'm not talking about guys who will make the observations that Eli has struggled. I'm talking about posters who literally post nothing that isn't eli related. It is like Russia is hacking BBI.
Seriously - it is fucking weird.
It may be true, but it's not a terrible point. Eli is 37 and isn't exactly on the up swing. There's merits to the "QB or bust" debate, especially if they carry the grade.
NELSON!
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Even if that was the reason (and I think it's silly to think that any one single factor can be isolated as the sole reason), Nelson doesn't make Eli younger. Eli's career will most likely end in the next few years as a function of age regardless of whether the Giants draft Nelson or not.
You have a handful of posters (I'm suspecting dupes) whose posting history is nothing other than slams against Eli.
We see it with sundayatone and NYSports1 to callout two in particular. They were on a thread talking about signing Solder and their only contribution was signing Solder means nothing. Eli sucks.
Eli is going to come up in a lot of threads and there's fair and reasonable discussion to have, but somehow mentioning Eli in a thread about Gettleman getting fired from Carolina seems a strange place to have a throwaway line about Eli being done. That's the kind of stuff that is happening.
It is to the point that those posters exist for the sole reason to troll and agitate
We all know that Eli is aging. That doesn't mean that someone taken high in this draft will be better than an aging Eli.
We all know that Eli is aging. That doesn't mean that someone taken high in this draft will be better than an aging Eli.
That goes for every position. This is the common misconception here that those in favor of taking a QB in the draft is solely for the sake of taking a QB. That is not true at all. The reason we want to take a QB like Rosen or Darnold is because we are impressed with their talent and upside. I don't think anyone is expecting Rosen or Darnold, if they are the pick, to start over Eli this year.
We all know that Eli is aging. That doesn't mean that someone taken high in this draft will be better than an aging Eli.
The problem is how would they know that? All they have to go on is college film and a few practice reps. Remember Webb was the #3 QB all season so he received very limited snaps in practice. Keep in mind that under the new CBA there are very few padded practices as well so you truly can't judge Webb based on a few practice tapes where most players aren't going 100% either. The Giants can hope that Webb is a starting QB someday but they have to plan as if he isn't.
will be a "franchise" QB. It is so hard to get the right guy and yet so many are completely dismissive of that and just want to take the generic QB. Despite the fact that if you get it wrong, you hurt yourself endlessly.
We all know that Eli is aging. That doesn't mean that someone taken high in this draft will be better than an aging Eli.
That goes for every position. This is the common misconception here that those in favor of taking a QB in the draft is solely for the sake of taking a QB. That is not true at all. The reason we want to take a QB like Rosen or Darnold is because we are impressed with their talent and upside. I don't think anyone is expecting Rosen or Darnold, if they are the pick, to start over Eli this year.
You might be. There are a lot of posters on BBI right now that are just saying take a QB. This thread started that way. It wasn't an argument for a specific QB, it was an argument for taking a QB. That is a specious argument. All of the QBs in this draft are not going to be great or even good. Some of them will be complete flameouts. It's about the individual, not the position.
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did that thought cross your mind before posting?
The problem is how would they know that? All they have to go on is college film and a few practice reps. Remember Webb was the #3 QB all season so he received very limited snaps in practice. Keep in mind that under the new CBA there are very few padded practices as well so you truly can't judge Webb based on a few practice tapes where most players aren't going 100% either. The Giants can hope that Webb is a starting QB someday but they have to plan as if he isn't.
They have a year of practices and some pre-season games. Not a lot for sure, but more than they have on college seniors just entering the draft.
I'm not talking about guys who will make the observations that Eli has struggled. I'm talking about posters who literally post nothing that isn't eli related. It is like Russia is hacking BBI.
Seriously - it is fucking weird.
When did the Russians hack Eric's site?
2. Trade back and accumulate picks.
If one of the QB's has the grade they feel is high - take him. If not, drop down and get a boatload of picks.
I'm also fine with taking Barkley but man that's really risky, especially with the shorter life of a RB career.
NELSON!
We do not have a franchise qb any longer....Once you realize that it will be better
The Giants have a shot to secure the MOST important position on the team for years to come. But we want to supply Eli with more help as if rookies are going to all of a sudden be great players in first year or two.
If Eli was 31 or 30 then yes take a trade and get more picks because under any scenario taking a guard or RB with a top 2 pick is beyond stupid in all sense of the word. PERIOD
Remember the talk of people here saying " You Eli hates are going to miss him when he is gone and we are back to Brown, Kanell era of qb play"
Yea we might not have to with this gift, but you guys think Eli has ELITE years left and we gotta help him out now like we are a G or RB away from winning a ring? NOPE
That is 100% correct but does that coach have a qb that can lead his team for the next 15 years and win a ring?
This is not about both lines of scrimmage. This is about having an aging qb and before you do anything on a team, you first address the most important position which is QB. The chips will fall after that...You can build a great line on both sides but if the qb cant play than you have a talented team who cant win
And you appear to be arguing against yourself mostly. A lot of people have been open to moving from Eli - yet every thread you post on - even threads that aren't discussing Eli - you chime in. From the McAdoo thread:
NYSports1 : 1:35 pm : link : reply
call in benching Eli to see the other qb's.
In the Buffalo going after Allen thread:
NYSports1 : 3/13/2018 11:58 pm : link : reply
OMG so awesome....Forget qb since we have a fosil playing now and Webb who could not musted first team reps in a 3-13 season....Yea am sure those picks will make this team great for 15 years
On the Rosen= Luck thread:
In a we signed Stewart thread:
NYSports1 : 3/13/2018 5:43 pm : link : reply
than this is franchise altering signing by DG....Get the QB at 2 and lets start fresh and cut the dead weight
Basically you have zero posts that talk about anything other than Eli. None.
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who didn't, at some point say, that in order to be a successful team, the first priorities are: 1) being able to run the ball; 1a) being able to stop the run.
That is 100% correct but does that coach have a qb that can lead his team for the next 15 years and win a ring?
This is not about both lines of scrimmage. This is about having an aging qb and before you do anything on a team, you first address the most important position which is QB. The chips will fall after that...You can build a great line on both sides but if the qb cant play than you have a talented team who cant win
None of them are perfect but if I’m a scout who does not know anything about these three guys and just sees them on the field side by side I would have to choose Allen four out of five times. He is a year older than them but he is physically ready to play tomorrow now that does mean if he sits for two years he will become a starter at 24 while the other two are 23. He played with the least amount of talent then the other two with a somewhat injured year but the tools are tremendously eye catching.
That being said, I don’t think Eli sucks now, but he is missing some easy throws. I strongly believe a few of these QBs are going to be really good and it’s hard, for me anyways, to see how you don’t take a QB at 2. It’s a tough call for Gettleman and his career will be defined by this pick. If he risks it and goes for the QB and that QB works out he’s a hero and obviously vice versa. I think raking Nelson or trading down is a bad move, or maybe just a kick the can down the road type of move. I really hope to not be picking #2 again but when your there and can take a good/great QB you risk it. Robert Gallery was also considered safe and a sure thing here.
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He's going into year 15.. Long time in the NFL for anybody. How many more high level years of play can we realistically expect?
People need to face the cold harsh reality of this buisness.
Eli aint gonna be here forever
Yes and outside of Brady won more rings during that time than any other QB I believe. He was a great pick, sooner or later tho they all lose it.
Eli has had a wonderful career you can debate if he should've won more or his play during rough stretches but it's coming to a end and that end is sooner rather then later
We're lucky to have 3 talented QB to choose from to succeed Manning
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In comment 13869606 Bill L said:
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who didn't, at some point say, that in order to be a successful team, the first priorities are: 1) being able to run the ball; 1a) being able to stop the run.
That is 100% correct but does that coach have a qb that can lead his team for the next 15 years and win a ring?
This is not about both lines of scrimmage. This is about having an aging qb and before you do anything on a team, you first address the most important position which is QB. The chips will fall after that...You can build a great line on both sides but if the qb cant play than you have a talented team who cant win
That's baloney. If you need all components to have a successful team then you need to assemble all components. The order isn't essential. A great QB with no line or not running game is no more effective than a shitty qb with a great line. And as has been pointed out great running back without great Qb don't win SB. Walter Payton was a shitty RB.
What are you talking about? Are you saying finding a franchise qb is as difficult as it is finding a RB or WR or G for your team?
Go see why the Cowboys have not been able to capitalize with their great OLINE and excellent RB? 13-3 season and out in round 1. This past year they went scoreless in like 3 straight games.
Once you have the franchise qb, the rest of the team you build around him is easier than finding the franchise qb. Is it super easy? NOPE but a GM can find the parts around the qb easier than fidning that QB...You win in this league on a consistent basis if you have a franchise qb
One or another QB, the RB, the Guard... Trust. the. professionals.
I just personally prefer a short trade down to 3,4,5 or 6 or so due to a variety of reasons, grabbing a ransom of high picks and using them all on playmakers.
But upset? Nonsense. Unless they draft some skinny reach player. But that won't happen.
Jacksonville is not winning a SB with Bortles as the QB. I feel strongly about that. If the Jags had a top 10 pick from a trade and had the season they had last year they would go for the qb. The Jags were built well by TC but that is one season, they need to do it consistently and see if BB can win them a ring which I highly doubt he can. THey also lack offensive weapons.
The Eagles got hot at the right time and rode home field which was there due to MVP level FRANCHISE QB Wentz. No change the Eagles win last year if Foles was the qb from the start of the season.
There's a group that actually derisively looks at posters and calls them Eli apologists.
Absolutely fucking baffling.
There's a group that actually derisively looks at posters and calls them Eli apologists.
Absolutely fucking baffling.
Kevin Gilbride first called attention to it in 2012 and it was never addressed appropriately by Reese/Ross. Look at what Coach Coughlin has done in his short time in Jacksonville. He now has a fortress similar to the 2005-2011 Giants O-Lines. And now we have a GM who has proven once again that he knows how to put together an O-Line. Back then he brought us O'Hara and McKenzie and now in just a short time he has brought us Solder and soon, hopefully Nelson.
If they take a QB great were in a position and were confident he is Eli's equal or better but I will never understand the Eli bashing on this sight it's moronic .
I say he has two good years left make a run for it and if
it fails you still have Webb and we have a player we could use to go get a QB . I don't see any of these QB's a can't miss initially I felt Darnold now if they do go QB its Rosen . Barkley and a revamed line will make this offense maybe the best ever as far as the Giants go .
This isn't a jitterbug like David Wilson who really just had bad luck this is a game changing back a HR hitter .
One or another QB, the RB, the Guard... Trust. the. professionals.
I just personally prefer a short trade down to 3,4,5 or 6 or so due to a variety of reasons, grabbing a ransom of high picks and using them all on playmakers.
But upset? Nonsense. Unless they draft some skinny reach player. But that won't happen.
I agree, especially the trade down part
There's a group that actually derisively looks at posters and calls them Eli apologists.
Absolutely fucking baffling.
Noooo--- you don't. You build your team in a way to give you the best chance to win. Each team does it differently.
The best way to go about that is to get the QB.