posters on BBI when it comes to Eli Manning?
Personally, I trust DG and Shurmur because idk, they seem to be pretty good at what they do. Maybe I'm naive.
I'm only writing this because of the posters on here that have this strange obsession with blaming literally everything on Eli. "3-13?" Eli. "McAdoo?" Eli. "I forgot to take my One-a-day over 50 vitamin?" Eli.
Is Eli what he was 6 years ago? No. But can you seriously say with a straight face that Eli is our biggest problem? Even putting all of his past accomplishments to the side, you REALLY think he's THAT bad? He's obviously declined, who wouldn't at his age, but like DG/Shurm have said - he's got years left.
DO YOU KNOW WHY?
An aging, old, decrepit Eli Manning is still better than half of the quarterbacks in the league and it's still better than throwing some rookie in there.
As far as the draft, nobody knows for sure what's going to happen. It's a win-win-win-win. (For the record, I have no preference what we do, this is unbiased).
1. You take a QB - great! Now we have a presumable heir.
2. You take Barkley - wow! Now we have a presumable rushing attack that we haven't had in years.
3. You take Nelson - hell yea! Now we have a presumable blue chip interior lineman for a decade.
4. We trade down - wubba lubba dub dub! Now we have more picks to add depth to our team.
Notice how I kept saying "presumable." Because no matter who we draft, you just never know what they're going to become. I don't care if you'd bet your life on a prospect, you just never know.
So, when we have a "declining, old, useless, terrible" QB still on the roster that the GM and the head coach are rallying behind, I'm going to go all-in and believe in them and Eli. Eli now is still better than any rookie and at least half of the QB's in the league. Teams would kill to have Eli, and here we are constantly scapegoating him.
Eli has never had a bad year. The worst he's ever performed is "average." I swear it's like some of you don't watch other teams on Sunday's to see what else is out there. We should be so grateful.
Gettleman was brought in to patch this thing up and try to force another run. I fully believe that. The right thing to do was burn it down and start fresh but Mara is not that kind of risk taker.
What is "burning it down"?? We have a new GM. New HC. New Coordinators. We'll have at least two new OL and probably new LB's. We will have a roster turnover of 20+ players, with several cuts or restructures in the next few weeks.
Can somebody tell me what more, within the constraints of the cap can be done?
That line of thinking is just ludicrous. You can't just fucking replace an entire roster.
Let's Kick Ass.
Thank you! I tried to be as rational as I could and leave my nostalgia at the door lol
Go look at 2013. That was an abysmal year. Gilbride got fired for that year. Eli was really bad that year. If you think that's "average," you should take your own advice with regard to watching other teams on Sundays to see what else is out there.
Never had a bad year? I don't understand why people feel the need to live in this bananaland state of denial. Eli has had some amazing moments, and some really crap moments too.
Well said and very true. I think Macadoo/Mata was right with th supposed be plan to play a half with Eli and a half with Webb. Eli didn’t want that, don’t blame him. No one wanted to see Geno Smith though. However Mara admitted to saying maybe it’s time to look at the QB position. However people went apeshit and now the company line is we can win we with Eli. If they don’t take one they are foolish and I think it would have come from Mara.
However Eli has said he doesn’t mind if they take a QB at 2, Gettleman and Eli have repeated it often. I fear watching years of football when we are struggling to find a good QB post Eli.
I also think people have to realize that you can’t just say we will trade up and get one when we need. It’s not that easy.
This is the question I continue to ask people who take DG and PS at face value with their comments on Eli...
If they were completely uncertain about Eli going forward and felt like they were leaning toward taking a QB in the draft, would their comments about Eli have been any different? IMO, they'd say exactly the same thing if they were trying to hide their intentions as they would if they were being completely forthright when they stated their confidence in Eli. And because of that, all of their comments thus far are meaningless - we'll have a much better sense of how confident they really are about Eli on 4/26.
Gettleman was brought in to patch this thing up and try to force another run. I fully believe that. The right thing to do was burn it down and start fresh but Mara is not that kind of risk taker.
Fair enough, but I wonder how every would have reacted if it was Davis Webb instead of Geno freaking Smith. This season could be so much different.
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The right thing to do was burn it down and start fresh but Mara is not that kind of risk taker.
What is "burning it down"?? We have a new GM. New HC. New Coordinators. We'll have at least two new OL and probably new LB's. We will have a roster turnover of 20+ players, with several cuts or restructures in the next few weeks.
Can somebody tell me what more, within the constraints of the cap can be done?
That line of thinking is just ludicrous. You can't just fucking replace an entire roster.
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And I think he is heavily involved. I think Gettleman got the job in large part because he was open to keeping Eli. I think the whole public reaction to the benching last year freaked Mara out and his response is to avoid forcing a change until the evidence is just overwhelming.
Gettleman was brought in to patch this thing up and try to force another run. I fully believe that. The right thing to do was burn it down and start fresh but Mara is not that kind of risk taker.
Fair enough, but I wonder how every would have reacted if it was Davis Webb instead of Geno freaking Smith. This season could be so much different.
If you mean did it scar (not scare) Mara, the question is a legitimate one. I think Mara was totally caught of guard with the blowback, which I do not think would have been nearly as great if the brain trust went to Davis Webb instead of Geno Smith. Davis Webb is about the future and judging it, Geno Smith was a slap in Eli's face and it was scapegoating him for a whole plethora of problems that Eli, by and large, was the victim of--not the cause of. However, I have no way of knowing, but I hope Mara understands that most people were upset by the way Eli was scapegoated and that Geno was never the answer and should never have started in his place--not that that the fan base is reluctant to move forward with a new qb. We will always love and respect Eli, but I think many of us think we should plan for his future. That is not a slap at Eli, that is just the reality.
Eli has done his share to be one of the great Giants but let’s not make it seem like he was ever elite for any length of time. His numbers are what they are a QB who played game after game luck whatever you want to call. How many would be calling to resign Eli if he was a FA like Brees today not many honestly. I’m not one who felt he got wronged with the benching it was a terrible injustice to the team future not to see what Webb could or couldn’t do.
We all get older some quicker than others is he finished how the hell do we know oh yes time will tell. They reportedly fixed the line to protect him so let’s see because that’s the plan like it or not. It’s very difficult for me to believe your going to see the Eli from four or five years ago but shit happens hopefully.
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Eli has never had a bad year. The worst he's ever performed is "average." I swear it's like some of you don't watch other teams on Sunday's to see what else is out there. We should be so grateful.
Go look at 2013. That was an abysmal year. Gilbride got fired for that year. Eli was really bad that year. If you think that's "average," you should take your own advice with regard to watching other teams on Sundays to see what else is out there.
Never had a bad year? I don't understand why people feel the need to live in this bananaland state of denial. Eli has had some amazing moments, and some really crap moments too.
You're correct. Statistically, it was pretty bad. But if you analyzed every one and actually did your research, you'd know he only accounts for like half of them. There were so many "desperation" picks and tipped balls.
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Eli has never had a bad year. The worst he's ever performed is "average." I swear it's like some of you don't watch other teams on Sunday's to see what else is out there. We should be so grateful.
Go look at 2013. That was an abysmal year. Gilbride got fired for that year. Eli was really bad that year. If you think that's "average," you should take your own advice with regard to watching other teams on Sundays to see what else is out there.
Never had a bad year? I don't understand why people feel the need to live in this bananaland state of denial. Eli has had some amazing moments, and some really crap moments too.
You're correct. Statistically, it was pretty bad. But if you analyzed every one and actually did your research, you'd know he only accounts for like half of them. There were so many "desperation" picks and tipped balls.
And those don't happen to other QBs? Eli has led the NFL in INTs since he entered the league in 2004. He had an atrocious year in 2013, but we're supposed to sift through the garbage to assign blame to everyone but Eli, right?
Glad you checked your nostalgia at the door.
1) draft a QB (which they could easily do, I am just skeptical)
In line with the above..
2) Trade or release Eli. I love the guy, he is my favorite Giant ever and I don’t need to qualify that at all because it’s not close. I fucking love the guy, but if he wins again here I would be absolutely shocked. Time to move on.
——
These are the main two points, I don’t think the Giants will do either. I am also of the opinion that your QB is basically the single defining factor of your team and is more important than any other position by such a degree it’s not even worth comparing. A good QB makes your team and bad QB breaks it.
Other things:
3) Don’t make any “win now” moves. I would consider signing Solder an example of that.
4) Trade Beckham. Purely because I think he’s not on the same timeline as the next potential Giants championship team and you could still get a shitload for him in return. I don’t care about any off (or on) the field character issues. I like Beckham I just don’t want to pay him like he’s Peyton Manning.
That’s what comes to mind. In general I think we should be sellers right now, not buyers.
2) Related to #1, there is an obvious matter of the draft coming up. The team is well aware, first hand, of what can happen when your draft intentions are an open book. Take anything with a grain of salt.
3) Regardless of what the current group feels, it is clear the last group was not nearly so high on the play of QB. I think we can agree --McAdoo sucked. But we should also acknowledge that a) Eli did have some good seasons under McAdoo as his offensive coordinator and b) McAdoo/Reese had the benefit of being with him every day, hence they knew him better, even if poor judges.
4) Don't think the situation with QB is not more than a little bit political. We don't know anything for sure, but it is notable that the organizational narrative on the QB took a 180 following the backlash on the benching and has not changed since. Sure, it could all be because of the new people involved, but if you think that Mara does not factor into the equation here you are kidding yourself.
5) Regardless of the opinions we hold, let's all hope Eli does have a few more good years in him. That would be great to see, wouldn't it?
Eli has done his share to be one of the great Giants but let’s not make it seem like he was ever elite for any length of time. His numbers are what they are a QB who played game after game luck whatever you want to call. How many would be calling to resign Eli if he was a FA like Brees today not many honestly. I’m not one who felt he got wronged with the benching it was a terrible injustice to the team future not to see what Webb could or couldn’t do.
We all get older some quicker than others is he finished how the hell do we know oh yes time will tell. They reportedly fixed the line to protect him so let’s see because that’s the plan like it or not. It’s very difficult for me to believe your going to see the Eli from four or five years ago but shit happens hopefully.
I couldn't care less if he was ever elite lol He got the job done when he needed to.
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In comment 13869704 Gatorade Dunk said:
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Eli has never had a bad year. The worst he's ever performed is "average." I swear it's like some of you don't watch other teams on Sunday's to see what else is out there. We should be so grateful.
Go look at 2013. That was an abysmal year. Gilbride got fired for that year. Eli was really bad that year. If you think that's "average," you should take your own advice with regard to watching other teams on Sundays to see what else is out there.
Never had a bad year? I don't understand why people feel the need to live in this bananaland state of denial. Eli has had some amazing moments, and some really crap moments too.
You're correct. Statistically, it was pretty bad. But if you analyzed every one and actually did your research, you'd know he only accounts for like half of them. There were so many "desperation" picks and tipped balls.
And those don't happen to other QBs? Eli has led the NFL in INTs since he entered the league in 2004. He had an atrocious year in 2013, but we're supposed to sift through the garbage to assign blame to everyone but Eli, right?
Glad you checked your nostalgia at the door.
I did, checking my nostalgia at the door as in, I am OK with moving on from Eli. Did you even read my original post? lol What you are doing is kicking and screaming about how bad Eli is when, he's not. I am sorry for whatever he may have done to you or your family. That's the only thing I can imagine caused this kind of pure hatred.
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In comment 13869751 HoodieGelo said:
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In comment 13869704 Gatorade Dunk said:
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Eli has never had a bad year. The worst he's ever performed is "average." I swear it's like some of you don't watch other teams on Sunday's to see what else is out there. We should be so grateful.
Go look at 2013. That was an abysmal year. Gilbride got fired for that year. Eli was really bad that year. If you think that's "average," you should take your own advice with regard to watching other teams on Sundays to see what else is out there.
Never had a bad year? I don't understand why people feel the need to live in this bananaland state of denial. Eli has had some amazing moments, and some really crap moments too.
You're correct. Statistically, it was pretty bad. But if you analyzed every one and actually did your research, you'd know he only accounts for like half of them. There were so many "desperation" picks and tipped balls.
And those don't happen to other QBs? Eli has led the NFL in INTs since he entered the league in 2004. He had an atrocious year in 2013, but we're supposed to sift through the garbage to assign blame to everyone but Eli, right?
Glad you checked your nostalgia at the door.
I did, checking my nostalgia at the door as in, I am OK with moving on from Eli. Did you even read my original post? lol What you are doing is kicking and screaming about how bad Eli is when, he's not. I am sorry for whatever he may have done to you or your family. That's the only thing I can imagine caused this kind of pure hatred.
I don't hate him. I'm not kicking and screaming about how bad he is. I do happen to think he's declining, but I think that's just a function of age more than anything else. I'm being completely objective. You're the one who said he's never had a bad year, when that's patently false, so I pointed it out. He sucked in 2013.
I'll put aside the assumption that an outside GM somehow is inherently better. But trading your best player, coupled with not making any signings is just disasterous thinking.
You basically are saying you want the team to take a chance on draft picks, trot a rookie QB out there and weaken the team offensively for some sort of ring at the end of.......what?
Forcing a losing season in an Era where any team can win any year is foolish. Doing it by weakening the team and avoiding signing "win now" players is virtually impossible. Let's say you trade Beckham for two draft picks. You basically trade him for 1, and both better become starters and one the best at their position. But even then, they are playing with a bunch of rookies and non-"win now" signings.
Name a team that has successfully followed this model.
Almost as if we're supposed to just release 80% of the team and not spend money to replace them.
"BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT!"
Guess what? There aren't enough picks.
You have to sign supplemental talent. This is not the mistake the Giants are making or where they've failed. They've failed to draft well and field the combination of FAs and cost-controlled players drafted here.
That doesn't mean you sit out Free Agency and do nothing. That doesn't fix a fucking thing.
The Giants' fortunes will improve when the drafts start to improve. They're not going to get better by trading and releasing everyone of note and spending FA on the sidelines.
Or they could be genuine. No way to know.
And most posters here, take every move as a sign that Gettleman thinks like they do. If you want Barley, signing hog mollies clearly indicates that Giants are going to emphasize the run and draft their franchise RB.
If you don't want Barkeley, then signing Jonathan Stewart is a clear sign that DG is not going to draft him #2
I think the signs are ambiguous. You would think DG would want to rebuild after 3-13, but to me, it looks like he is going for it and expects Giants to be a playoff team
We have a new LT. We have a new LB. We have a new coach, GM and assistants. We likely have a new starting RB (or at least a different committee makeup).
It's almost like people equate a rebuild with letting Eli go, cutting Vernon and JPP and not spending any money. And basically they've said those exact words above.
How does doing those things get a team closer to a championship?
We have a new LT. We have a new LB. We have a new coach, GM and assistants. We likely have a new starting RB (or at least a different committee makeup).
It's almost like people equate a rebuild with letting Eli go, cutting Vernon and JPP and not spending any money. And basically they've said those exact words above.
How does doing those things get a team closer to a championship?
We have a new LT. We have a new LB. We have a new coach, GM and assistants. We likely have a new starting RB (or at least a different committee makeup).
It's almost like people equate a rebuild with letting Eli go, cutting Vernon and JPP and not spending any money. And basically they've said those exact words above.
How does doing those things get a team closer to a championship?
It doesn't - which is why a lot of the comments are baffling.
You don't have to tear the entire operation down and build it from scratch.
There were major problems with the Giants last year. We all know this.
We had a very poor offensive line
We had a culture issue
Our linebackers sucked
So far, we have:
Added the best OT on the market as well as a OG who has starting experience and is still in his 20's.
Added high-character players and eliminated some guys who were problems here (i.e.. Bobby Hart)
Traded for Alec Ogletree who is automatically the best LBer we've had here since Pierce.
I don't think anything going on here is short-sighted. These are moves that help now, but are things that benefit the Giants long-term as well.
Contrary to what many believe, you can still try to field a team with the intention of winning football games and competing while you do things to rebuild.
I don't think NYG get any closer to a championship by just cutting and releasing players left and right and then spending free agency on the sidelines.
Cap space doesn't win Super Bowls. Good football teams do.
This doesn't have to be a 5 year operation here.
Gettleman is committed to fixing this line and it shows. This thing will get fixed sooner than later. We're much closer today than we were a week ago.
2) Related to #1, there is an obvious matter of the draft coming up. The team is well aware, first hand, of what can happen when your draft intentions are an open book. Take anything with a grain of salt.
3) Regardless of what the current group feels, it is clear the last group was not nearly so high on the play of QB. I think we can agree --McAdoo sucked. But we should also acknowledge that a) Eli did have some good seasons under McAdoo as his offensive coordinator and b) McAdoo/Reese had the benefit of being with him every day, hence they knew him better, even if poor judges.
4) Don't think the situation with QB is not more than a little bit political. We don't know anything for sure, but it is notable that the organizational narrative on the QB took a 180 following the backlash on the benching and has not changed since. Sure, it could all be because of the new people involved, but if you think that Mara does not factor into the equation here you are kidding yourself.
5) Regardless of the opinions we hold, let's all hope Eli does have a few more good years in him. That would be great to see, wouldn't it?
1+ If the Giants honestly believe that Eli has 2 to 3 good year left in him, they better be damn right or it's going to be a deeper hole for the future. If they are going to go this route, then it is not worth investing in any of these QBs, as they will not see the field and be a waste of resources and money holding clipboards. They instead should be going all out in getting him the Oline and running game to be effective. I don't care how they do in free agency or the draft. It just needs to be done. If they don't believe in Eli, then get the franchise QB and be done with him.
The one thing many are passing judgement on, is the last two seasons.....
Was it the defense that could not protect leads in the fourth quarter like last season? Was it the coach? Was it the scheme? Was it all the injuries? Was the Lack of an OL, which led to the inability to consistently convert on 3rd/4th and short and the inability to run a screen and the inability to give Eli time to check off covered receivers? How many dropped balls were there?
Or was it Eli?
If it wasn't Eli and it was the other factors, then it looks like that is the mindset of those in charge, and the path Gettleman is taking thus far.........
Those in charge, seem to be going in Eli's direction....but will they hedge their bet drafting a QB who won't contribute this season, or will they go all in, and choose someone who plays this season?
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In comment 13869683 Oscar said:
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And I think he is heavily involved. I think Gettleman got the job in large part because he was open to keeping Eli. I think the whole public reaction to the benching last year freaked Mara out and his response is to avoid forcing a change until the evidence is just overwhelming.
Gettleman was brought in to patch this thing up and try to force another run. I fully believe that. The right thing to do was burn it down and start fresh but Mara is not that kind of risk taker.
Fair enough, but I wonder how every would have reacted if it was Davis Webb instead of Geno freaking Smith. This season could be so much different.
If you mean did it scar (not scare) Mara, the question is a legitimate one. I think Mara was totally caught of guard with the blowback, which I do not think would have been nearly as great if the brain trust went to Davis Webb instead of Geno Smith. Davis Webb is about the future and judging it, Geno Smith was a slap in Eli's face and it was scapegoating him for a whole plethora of problems that Eli, by and large, was the victim of--not the cause of. However, I have no way of knowing, but I hope Mara understands that most people were upset by the way Eli was scapegoated and that Geno was never the answer and should never have started in his place--not that that the fan base is reluctant to move forward with a new qb. We will always love and respect Eli, but I think many of us think we should plan for his future. That is not a slap at Eli, that is just the reality.
Great post!!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly how I and many of my friends felt.
The fact that ownership couldn't understand this basic principle makes me completely skeptical of what they're trying to do.
Eli shouldn't be on this team any more nor should we have gone after Solder.
Now that we're here - I'm all in to try to win now because the ownership has freaked out and The GM is doing his job to try to win now.
What happens if we extend our streak of scoring <30 by another six games? What if we're 4-2 because of the defense playing lights out and scoring only 13 ppg, and they decide to bench Eli for real? Will we trust them then?
What if we start it 1-7 with some real heartbreaking losses?
We'll see about trust then, not based on anything said right now.
The Front Office and the team sucked last year. It needed to make changes at many levels which seems to be happening with a new GM, new Coach and new players which could be good, or it could be the same.
But it couldn't hurt...
We will have at least 2 new starters at LB a new slot corner, maybe a new FS, a whole new OL, a new #2 receiver, a new backup (and future QB) and a new mix at RB. What the hell more do people want. (oh and a new punter for good measure).
The draft will give us an indication of whether they are truly "going for it now" or just improving the roster (which is what any competent front office should be doing.)
There are SEVERAL QB prospects worth the #2 pick. Passing up this opportunity when they are just guessing about Webb would indicate they are really riding Eli to the end.
I can't stand, though, when people equate hate with recognizing reality. He has regressed and I don't think we can realistically plan on winning or competing at the highest levels with him anymore. That is my opinion. I am not the almighty, I could be wrong. But, because of that opinion I think it is necessary that we draft his replacement. That is not hating him, that is just recognizing what I believe is his ability at 37 years old. If the Giants won the Super Bowl next year and I had to eat crow from here to wherever the Super Bowl is, I would be the happiest person in the world to do so and admit how wrong I was. This has nothing to do with hate and everything to do with what is the best for our franchise going forward. I read in some thread earlier someone said we need to rebuild and it doesn't matter when we get the QB. So, his advice was to add the best player. I could not disagree more. In two years from now, we might by a 7 win, a 5 win, a 6 win team and we won't be in this position. So, if Rosen will have an A-/B+ career and Saquon will have an A+ career, I would rather have Rosen based on the position. A lot of A-/B+ guys have won the super bowl (Eli, Flacco, Ben), most A+ running backs have not won a Super Bowl--Sanders, Dickerson, AP, etc. ANd, usually the A+ guys who have won it, have done so with outstanding QBs, Terrell Davis, Marshall Faulk, etc. The only A+ guy I can think of in my lifetime who has won it without a good qb is Walter Payton. That is why not all positions are created equally
i agree completely with this post
The cheerleaders are making this a way more difficult situation than it is. So anyone that thinks Eli is at the end hates Eli? 37 yr old former star qb with 2 straight disappointing seasons. Reality. Odds are against him turning it around, anyone suggesting otherwise is basing it on hope. Hopefully he defies the odds, but I’m hoping the giants aren’t betting on it.
The cheerleaders are making this a way more difficult situation than it is. So anyone that thinks Eli is at the end hates Eli? 37 yr old former star qb with 2 straight disappointing seasons. Reality. Odds are against him turning it around, anyone suggesting otherwise is basing it on hope. Hopefully he defies the odds, but I’m hoping the giants aren’t betting on it.
We will have at least 2 new starters at LB a new slot corner, maybe a new FS, a whole new OL, a new #2 receiver, a new backup (and future QB) and a new mix at RB. What the hell more do people want. (oh and a new punter for good measure).
The draft will give us an indication of whether they are truly "going for it now" or just improving the roster (which is what any competent front office should be doing.)
There are SEVERAL QB prospects worth the #2 pick. Passing up this opportunity when they are just guessing about Webb would indicate they are really riding Eli to the end.
This is the commentary I see that I really don't get. How are the Giants guessing about Webb any more than they are guessing about Darnold (or Rosen). In fact they have seen Webb for 1 year in practices, he has spent a year in the offense, and he's played in pre-season games. Sure its not a lot, but its certainly a lot more to go on than with a college senior in the draft.
IMO, the Giants should be able to make an educated assessment of Webb (definitely more educated than a draftee). If they decide they like what they see, and Webb can be the next QB, then draft Barkley or trade down. If they judge he can't, and think a few years from now Darnold would be better, than take him. Either way I'm ok.
"The Giants aren't re-building because Eli is still here"
and i don't mean funny as in ha-ha...
You have an odd sense of humor.
Eli is somewhere on the agenda to be addressed...tbd
I cringed at the Eli never had a bad year line above. Saying that with a straight face had to be tough.
Defending it without cracking a smile would be even more impressive.
Give me a sticky on that one anytime...