Who is gold jacket worthy in this draft?

QBs could be a mistake. Nelson and Barkley are not.

why wouldn’t we take the player who we think could be a hall of famer?

In comment 13870055 UConn4523 said:

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why wouldn’t we take the player who we think could be a hall of famer?

It stood out because it is basically impossible to forecast a HOF prospect in the draft unless it is an elite prospect. IMO none of the QB's are elite prospects like Peyton or Luck were. The super clean, elite prospects are Barkley & Nelson, with Nelson to me being the only prospect I can envision as a 10 year All Pro/HOF'er barring injury at the end of his career.

the qualities of Saquon Barkley and Quentin Nelson have a good start with character and worth ethic, but then I suppose so do some of the QBs in the draft. Just because you are drafting #2 doesn't guarantee you'll find a HOF type.

Number #2 picks over the last 17 years:

2017. Mitchell Trubisky QB
2016 Carson Wentz QB
2015 Marcus Mariota QB
2014 Greg Robinson. OT
2013 Luke Joeckel OT
2012 Robert Griffin III. QB
2011 Von Miller LB
2010 Ndamukong Suh DT
2009 Jason Smith OT
2008 Chris Long DE
2007 Calvin Johnson WR
2006 Reggie Bush RB
2005 Ronnie Brown RB
2004 Robert Gallery OT
2003 Charles Rogers WR
2002 Julius Peppers DE
2001 Leonard Davis OT
2000 LaVar Arrington LB

than making a better football decision.

Personally I don’t care how good Nelson is, his value at 2 compared to even an above average QB just isn’t good enough.

How do you not take a your best shot at the next franchise QB?

You have no way of predicting a HOFer. You take the best player for your team. Whether that is the "BPA" or the guy you think is your next franchise QB or whatever. Trying to factor in the "gold jacket" is nuts.

Nelson?...how many can't miss OL failed? A ton.

Top RB fail more due to injury but hof can be found in any round

These are Gettleman's pat answers to that question. He's not going to tell anyone what they decide to do (which I honestly don't think they've decided on yet). I can't see them passing on Darnold or Rosen to take Nelson. Barkley maybe, but they know how to value positions. And he knows they have a rare opportunity here.

to be a shoe in for the HOF. I read it as the guy has to be a game changer out of the gate. Are any of these QB's game changers to warrant #2? It's sounds to me like DG isn't convinced... I think we go Barkley and see what we have in Webb.

to Luck. Unfortunately you can’t ignore the injuries.

QB is way to dependent on so many other things to envision a HOFer and that bar is set very high.

An Oline guy can go to the worst team in the league, be surrounded by terrible teammates, coaches, ect. Go to work for a decade and be dominant.

On average 5 rookies should eventually make it. So we’re picking 2, and we’re saying we should be targeting a top 5 player in the draft. Um ok. What a shocker.

HOF doesn’t really mean that much.

And goes in as a NYFootball Giant

In comment 13870088 Pete in 'Vliet said:

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Gold jacket, green jacket, who gives a shit?

have a winning record? No. 6-7 last year and 4-9 the year before. Luck lost only 3 games with Stanford over his last 2 years. They're not comparable

In comment 13870118 Tim in VA said:

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have a winning record? No. 6-7 last year and 4-9 the year before. Luck lost only 3 games with Stanford over his last 2 years. They're not comparable

Luck's teams were loaded with NFL talent, including a number of guys who start and have had success around the NFL like Richard Sherman, Zach Ertz, Coby Fleener, Trent Murphy, David DeCastro, etc. Jim Harbaugh was also the coach. Their teams are not comparable.

In comment 13870118 Tim in VA said:

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have a winning record? No. 6-7 last year and 4-9 the year before. Luck lost only 3 games with Stanford over his last 2 years. They're not comparable

Using team records is something that can take you to strange places. If you go just a little further on that path, how many times did any of the top quarterbacks in the NFL today get to or win a bowl game?

Was he a loser??

... that Barkley and Nelson seem to have the highest HOF potential.

One of the QBs would be a bigger difference maker IF they truly turn out to be a franchise type QB. The QBs are also more likely to set the team drafting back if they are not a franchise type QB taken at the 2nd overall.

I can't find a single starting NFL QB who had a losing record in college. Not one. You want to draft a winner. Rosen would be an exception in the NFL with his abysmal record

In comment 13870122 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 13870118 Tim in VA said: Quote: have a winning record? No. 6-7 last year and 4-9 the year before. Luck lost only 3 games with Stanford over his last 2 years. They're not comparable Luck's teams were loaded with NFL talent, including a number of guys who start and have had success around the NFL like Richard Sherman, Zach Ertz, Coby Fleener, Trent Murphy, David DeCastro, etc. Jim Harbaugh was also the coach. Their teams are not comparable.

i don’t think this is relevant. I’m pretty sure that all you need is a QB.

Which QB playing today had a losing record?

Winning isn't relevant. I guess the same goes for the Giants if they were to listen to some here

In comment 13870143 Tim in VA said:

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I can't find a single starting NFL QB who had a losing record in college. Not one. You want to draft a winner. Rosen would be an exception in the NFL with his abysmal record

Jared Goff

There is going to be a potential franchise QB available at #2. If we pass on him to take a guard -- especially a guard who is apparently a great run blocker but only average as a pass blocker -- DG is a fool.

Brady, Eli, Rivers, Rogers, Brees, Wilson, Luck, Wentz, Cam, Stafford, Alex Smith, Cousins, Dak, Gabbert...all not only had winning records but had really good ones, 3-1 in most cases. You found 1

In comment 13870151 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:

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There is going to be a potential franchise QB available at #2. If we pass on him to take a guard -- especially a guard who is apparently a great run blocker but only average as a pass blocker -- DG is a fool.

well, there will be a QB at #2

In comment 13870063 UConn4523 said:

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than making a better football decision. Personally I don’t care how good Nelson is, his value at 2 compared to even an above average QB just isn’t good enough.

An above average quarterback that locks you into football purgatory for 4-5 years is terrible value. Especially when you (rightfully) commit to developing that quarterback for the first three years and suffer the opportunity cost of missing out on another more highly touted quarterback in that period. Picking the wrong QB this high is very damaging.

In comment 13870154 Tim in VA said:

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Brady, Eli, Rivers, Rogers, Brees, Wilson, Luck, Wentz, Cam, Stafford, Alex Smith, Cousins, Dak, Gabbert...all not only had winning records but had really good ones, 3-1 in most cases. You found 1

Jimmy Garoppolo as well. Your question wasn't "is it better for a prospect to have a winning vs losing record".

Circumstances are circumstances. By that logic, they should definitely draft a quarterback because Eli is definitely finished if he could only win 3 games last year. It has nothing to do with the coaching or the rest of the roster I guess.

Cite Eli, the record, and use the record in a vacuum to make absolutes.

starts with Drew Henson.

I think that Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield all have HOF talent levels.

By the way, imo that's also true of a lot of NFL QBs who never made the HOF. for example, if Phil Simms had been drafted by Bill Walsh, who wanted him, he'd be in the HOF now. A QB's HOF potential is based upon their ability to pass accurately, to process information quickly and act upon it correctly, judgment, and some degree of mobility (or at least the ability to move well within the pocket. All the three mentioned seem to have those strengths.

Allen us the one whose accuracy would scare me.

There's no guarantees in the draft. Not Darnold. Not Rosen. Not Barkley. Not Nelson. How anybody could want a RB or OG after seeing what Keenum, Bradford & Cousins got paid is out of their mind.


You can go get a top RB or OG in free agency. You'll never get more then above average QB in free agency. Cousins is a solid QB at best (I like Cousins) and he got 84 million fully guaranteed over 3 years. Solid QBs like Cousins never hit the free agent market. So you don't risk it. You take the QB.

In comment 13870118 Tim in VA said:

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have a winning record? No. 6-7 last year and 4-9 the year before. Luck lost only 3 games with Stanford over his last 2 years. They're not comparable

For someone with such a strong opinion, I would think you would do a better job on the facts (unless of course you really aren't interested in the facts).

Rosen was 8-5 as an 18-year old freshman.
He was 3-3 in his six starts as a 19-year old sophomore.
He was 5-4 in his nine starts as a 20-year old junior.

p.s.--And he led his High School team to a California state championship victory.

In comment 13870164 Big Rick in FL said:

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There's no guarantees in the draft. Not Darnold. Not Rosen. Not Barkley. Not Nelson. How anybody could want a RB or OG after seeing what Keenum, Bradford & Cousins got paid is out of their mind. You can go get a top RB or OG in free agency. You'll never get more then above average QB in free agency. Cousins is a solid QB at best (I like Cousins) and he got 84 million fully guaranteed over 3 years. Solid QBs like Cousins never hit the free agent market. So you don't risk it. You take the QB.

This. QB's just get all of the media attention which leads people to believe RB's and OL are safer as top prospects. It wasn't that long ago that Robert Gallery and Reggie Bush were both can't miss prospects at those two positions. They were both viewed as can't miss superstars and there have been plenty more over the years at positions other than just quarterback.

look at how many players drafted at #2 never even made the Pro Bowl!
Link - ( New Window )

Who also happens to watch SEC games. I honestly hadn't ever heard of Barkley until this off-season. So the talk of him being HOF worthy is laughable. So many 1st round RB busts. So many.

high school records in regards to his being a "winner".
No QB, even Luck, is a guaranteed Pro bowler. You look at the prospect and make your best guess. (by the way there is no guarantee that Nelson or Barkley will be Pro bowlers either.
There are things about Darnold that concern me, but the 3 top QBs are real good prospects. The one who fits, should be the pick. If they go with Barkley, they are rolling the dice with Webb. Big gamble.

!!

has the best chance but it’s a team game. Drafting a guard at 2 would be idiotic.

Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield. I no particular order.

I forget that in addition to being a loser he's also a China doll. By all means, draft him. He's clearly the key to our future success

They're rolling the dice with Webb? If Manning has 2-3 years of quality play, Webb might still never see the field. They would have 2 or 3 more offseasons to figure out who the heir apparent will be. Webb would be in the mix, but it's hardly betting on him so much as it's betting on Eli

I want a future franchise QB as much as everyone else. When the season tanked, part of me wanted us to lose out to get the best chance at one. I knew who the options were and watched Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield and Allen as much as possible. The problem is, nobe of them looked the part. Mayfield was the closest thing I could see to a winner of the group, but his personality mixed with New York just seems too risky. Darnold, Rosen and Allen looked 2 steps behind. If we were sitting at 12 or higher I'd be thrilled with one of these guys. Well maybe that's a stretch because I don't see franchise there, but you get the point. At #2, I just can't even get close to accepting that we would pass over much better prospects to help our team to reach for one of these mediocre QB options

He will likely be drafted by the Browns first... None of these three quarterbacks are slam dunks as being starters in the NFL, let alone HOF'ers. Have to bet that Eli has several years left with an offensive line, running game and offensive system that support him and his talents...Eli is a vertical passer who needs a strong and reliable pocket. And a running game that is truly a threat to keep defenses honest. I think Nelson is great, but best scenario would be to trade back several spots if at all possible and still get him along with several other picks... have to believe there are teams like Denver, NYJ and Buffalo who passed on Cousins and will pay a steep price in draft picks to get their guy...

That Darnold is the prize of the draft. I think the new Giants braintrust is also very intrigued by Webb and may consider him like having an extra late 1st rounder this year,

In comment 13870221 Tim in VA said:

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I forget that in addition to being a loser he's also a China doll. By all means, draft him. He's clearly the key to our future success

You're really not doing your argument any favors by first being factually incorrect, and then falling back on overcooked bbi buzz words like 'china doll'

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IMO the only two are: Quentin Nelson Saquan Barkley

There are almost surely more than that. About seven guys go into the Hall of Fame every year. That means that on average, about seven Hall of Famers come into the league every year.

Nelson and Barkley are the guys who appear most ready to excel in the NFL, but there are a hundred things that could keep them from being the players we think they'll be.

So: Who are the other 4-6 guys who are likely to become Hall of Famers?

It's a hard question, none of us can see the future.

...QB at #2.

That is all.

In comment 13870072 BillT said:

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You have no way of predicting a HOFer. You take the best player for your team. Whether that is the "BPA" or the guy you think is your next franchise QB or whatever. Trying to factor in the "gold jacket" is nuts.

I don't get excited about what DG says. I think it's refreshing to have a GM who talks but says nothing when it comes to the draft.After the last few years where info leaked as to who the Giants were interested in, DG can talk all he wants & then pick who he deems is best for our team going forward! I think this is one time where the less "asshat" information,the better!

Stupidest move ever would be drafting a guard or rb at 2. Either a can’t miss edge rusher or a QB. No other position can have a great enough impact. Trade down if not taking 1 of the above

In comment 13870122 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 13870118 Tim in VA said: Quote: have a winning record? No. 6-7 last year and 4-9 the year before. Luck lost only 3 games with Stanford over his last 2 years. They're not comparable Luck's teams were loaded with NFL talent, including a number of guys who start and have had success around the NFL like Richard Sherman, Zach Ertz, Coby Fleener, Trent Murphy, David DeCastro, etc. Jim Harbaugh was also the coach. Their teams are not comparable.

If you can't hold 3-13 against Eli because of team quality, you can't hold it against Rosen either.

Throw on some Brady tape then watch Rosen. The kid can make every throw. Mechanics are beautiful, you won't be wasting time trying to clean up flaws like with the other QBs. You will be gameplanning from the get go. He is also brilliant. Rosen will be great, hope it is in Giant blue.

...

In comment 13870162 Bill L said:

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Cite Eli, the record, and use the record in a vacuum to make absolutes.

It's weird, because most of the people who get snarky about not taking a QB cite Eli, the OL, and use the OL in a vacuum to make excuses.

In comment 13870832 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13870162 Bill L said: Quote: Cite Eli, the record, and use the record in a vacuum to make absolutes. It's weird, because most of the people who get snarky about not taking a QB cite Eli, the OL, and use the OL in a vacuum to make excuses.

maybe there’s room for both and you could possible be right. However your point is not relevant since the topic was not Eli per se but the people, focusing on the record but discounting Eli’s circumstances while saying that Rosen’s record should be ignored because he had a sucky team.

In comment 13870173 Tim in Eternal Blue said:

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Who also happens to watch SEC games. I honestly hadn't ever heard of Barkley until this off-season. So the talk of him being HOF worthy is laughable. So many 1st round RB busts. So many.

Not for anything, but if you hadn't heard of Barkley before this offseason, I think that says more about the level to which you pay attention to CFB than it does about Barkley's talent or potential. He was plastered all over the place, especially early in the season.