#Giants free agent OL Justin Pugh is signing with the #AZCardinals, sources tell me and @MikeGarafolo. It’s a 5-year deal worth just over $45M. A huge deal to end the week.
just incredible how different the OL will look in 2018 compared to last year. Flowers may be the only starter who is the same, and he'll be playing a different position.
will be interesting to see what he got in guaranteed money Â
just incredible how different the OL will look in 2018 compared to last year. Flowers may be the only starter who is the same, and he'll be playing a different position.
It's so weird... I feel like Solder isn't worth the money, but I know for a fact Richburg and Pugh aren't worth that money. I guess that's NFL free agency for ya'.
What a freaking disaster Reese's recent drafts have been.
A lot of talk about how #2 is such a hard franchise altering pick but myself and many others felt this way when we started having top 10 picks routinely. We got one right with Beckham but Flowers and Apple were the other 2 and Pugh was a reach and need top 20 pick as well. A common meme was how Reese always nailed his 1st round pick.. Not so much.
if we're gonna call Pugh a reach. By what measure? Sometimes guys are the right pick at the time and it simply doesn't work out over the long term. He's an NFL-caliber starter.
RE: There's a bit of revisionist history at work Â
if we're gonna call Pugh a reach. By what measure? Sometimes guys are the right pick at the time and it simply doesn't work out over the long term. He's an NFL-caliber starter.
From what I recall he was a reach at the time so was Kyle Long who went one pick later.
We picked Pugh over Xavier Rhodes and DeAndre Hopkins.
RE: RE: There's a bit of revisionist history at work Â
if we're gonna call Pugh a reach. By what measure? Sometimes guys are the right pick at the time and it simply doesn't work out over the long term. He's an NFL-caliber starter.
From what I recall he was a reach at the time so was Kyle Long who went one pick later.
We picked Pugh over Xavier Rhodes and DeAndre Hopkins.
And Travis Frederick and Zach Ertz and Darius Slay and Leveon Bell.
It will be interesting to see if he stays healthy Â
if we're gonna call Pugh a reach. By what measure? Sometimes guys are the right pick at the time and it simply doesn't work out over the long term. He's an NFL-caliber starter.
I understand what you are saying and you are not incorrect, but the truth is this is ANOTHER player who will not see his second contract with the Giants. They let him walk because he could not stay on the field. (And I personally wonder if he milked some of these injuries knowing his upcoming FA status).
What a freaking disaster Reese's recent drafts have been.
in fairness, pugh is a serviceable, versatile guy, he just can't be counted on to stay healthy. his only knock, other than the recent comments saying he is not so committed to his profession.
He was the best rookie right tackle in the league . When they switched him to guard, over a two-year period, he was close to as good as anyone in the league . He got concussed . He hurt his back . He was not a reach . I could never figure out why Coughlin and Flarety didn’t put him at LOT his rookie season. Instead they went with the “five best” rationale .
He and Richburg are better than the guys the Giants have taking their places . So in my opinion. Gettleman did not do a great job evaluating the line . If Solder pops a labrum the first couple of months , however unfair it might be, he will look like an asshole .
was that he was a first round pick and we were hoping for a perennial all pro at that position with that pick. Yes there were others that we could have had who were better, but there were also Oline players picked ahead of Pugh who were worse - Joekel and Fluker being two examples. Pugh was a competent player for us who did his job when not injured... But the price is simply too high for his level of capability and his leaving is the right outcome for both parties. Glad he did well for himself and certainly wish him well in Arizona...
Gettleman is making up for the lost draft years of Reese. Â
Pugh definitely wasn't a reach. If I remember correctly a lot of people said the Bears were going to take him 1 pick after us.
Also let's not say Apple was a bad pick. He showed a lot of promise in year 1. Had a bad year 2, but so did everybody on the team. He's 22 years old and had a really rough year off the field. His parents got divorced and his Mom was spreading lies about the man who raised him & the rest of his Brothers/Sisters. His Mom had to have brain surgery. Yeah I know it's easy to say he's an athlete and that shouldn't effect him on the field, but that's simply not true. He's a human and that kinda shit gets to you.
My Mom & Stepfather got divorced when I was 18 and it was a really tough thing to deal with. Seeing the two people that raised you fighting (Trying to make one parent out to be a gold digger is even worse). It essentially changes your whole life and the only thing you've ever known.
Then the brain surgery will have a huge impact on just about anybody. My Mom had to get rushed to the hospital 2 weeks ago and was in there for a few days. The Dr's were worried about colon cancer. I couldn't focus on work. I was a nervous wreck worrying about my Mother while we awaited her results. Luckily she is ok, but I can't even imagine having to worry about my Mom having brain surgery where she could die or end up as a vegetable.
So yeah he was horrible this past year, but I'm gonna give him a pass before saying he's a bust. Our entire team was a mess playing for a HC that a lot of players didn't seem to like.
The Az OL is meh at best, and no QB, and only 1 receiver. That scenario would have Rams, Seattle, and SF DLs attacking their OL...pretty much like our 2017 was attacked.
Smells of 6 games,a pulled hammy or pec muscle, and a concussion headed his way.
these guys "who are only 20-22 years old" and they show flashes. Apple, Pugh were first round picks who didn't stick around. Apple was such a stupid stupid pick.
Pugh was never coming back here. It made sense to let him go.
He's a good player but not the type of player you give a sizable second contract to. He's just not reliable enough, and wherever that leak came from about the org questioning his priorities/commitment, I think it was genuine.
When you're ushering in a new era, this is one of the players that are difficult to make a decision on - because he's a good football player, but doesn't necessarily fit in with what the new regime is trying to accomplish.
The writing was on the wall for a long time. I never expected him back here, but I also have nothing against him or the Cards - so, I hope he does well there and wish him the best of luck.
I wanted to keep Kennard as I thought he was worthy but only at the right price. Richburg was just too small at OC. Pugh was hurt too often to deal him bigger money. He was versatile though and in that respect I did want him back - but not at $45m.
Overall, I think we are doing OK in free agency.
If the Browns take Darnold or Barkley, I would NOT be shocked if the Giants traded down (Rosen being on the board....) and we take OL Allen and a bunch of other solid Round 1, 2 picks. It all boils down to whether we get the right players drafted with this Gettleman regime.
Anybody that thinks the are worth anything doesn't know wtf is up with the Giants. These guys killed the culture of this team. They are horrible on the field, terribly injury prone, and two of the biggest assholes around. Neither one of them can hack it at this level and they really do know it because it really does show. They wear it on their sleeves. They both have inferiority complexes. There never was any chemistry at all with these guys. There was nobody who could even lead the group because of the bad atmosphere created by outmatched jerk-offs who walk around like somebody pissed in their cheerios. Fuck them. Good riddance. I am am insanely glad that Gettleman made zero effort to sign these douche bags. Now we can get back to practicing hard in the trenches as we all know that the defensive line has been hurt too by this situation because they had to play fucking patty-cake all through training camp so they didn't break the offensive linemen's fragile spirits.
Anybody that thinks the are worth anything doesn't know wtf is up with the Giants. These guys killed the culture of this team. They are horrible on the field, terribly injury prone, and two of the biggest assholes around. Neither one of them can hack it at this level and they really do know it because it really does show. They wear it on their sleeves. They both have inferiority complexes. There never was any chemistry at all with these guys. There was nobody who could even lead the group because of the bad atmosphere created by outmatched jerk-offs who walk around like somebody pissed in their cheerios. Fuck them. Good riddance. I am am insanely glad that Gettleman made zero effort to sign these douche bags. Now we can get back to practicing hard in the trenches as we all know that the defensive line has been hurt too by this situation because they had to play fucking patty-cake all through training camp so they didn't break the offensive linemen's fragile spirits.
Anybody that thinks the are worth anything doesn't know wtf is up with the Giants. These guys killed the culture of this team. They are horrible on the field, terribly injury prone, and two of the biggest assholes around. Neither one of them can hack it at this level and they really do know it because it really does show. They wear it on their sleeves. They both have inferiority complexes. There never was any chemistry at all with these guys. There was nobody who could even lead the group because of the bad atmosphere created by outmatched jerk-offs who walk around like somebody pissed in their cheerios. Fuck them. Good riddance. I am am insanely glad that Gettleman made zero effort to sign these douche bags. Now we can get back to practicing hard in the trenches as we all know that the defensive line has been hurt too by this situation because they had to play fucking patty-cake all through training camp so they didn't break the offensive linemen's fragile spirits.
Do you spend a lot of time with these guys? You seem to know them pretty well. Also sounds like you spend a lot of time at practices. What other insights on the team can you pass on to those of us who are not part of the organization?
2 days ago posters were positing an Oline with Pugh and I informed those posters that Pugh would be signing in Arizona specifically yesterday.
As always the usual crew came out with guns blazing telling me how I don't know anything and weirdly presuming as always that I'm purposely trying to trick BBI with info or something. I don't know if it's jealousy or whatever it's not a big deal I just happened to know some people in the business.
Someone on this thread said Pugh was as good as any guard Â
Finesse player who plays light in the britches. No nasty. Lack of want-to.
Like most of Reese’s draft picks maybe a nice person to invite to sip wine and play backgammon w on a weeknight but not what this OL should be made up of...
We need guys who are tone setters for this offensive line, that was not Pugh. Give us mentally stronger, physically less fragile.
Wish him the best, perhaps a change of scenery will do him well.
But, for some reason is just didn't work out. In fact, wasn't their an issue with our OL last year (or the year before) where they all didn't hang out together? Something was lacking with Chemistry in the OL. I'm sure he will play fine in Arizona. Our OL needed to be blown up though.
The first thing an OL has to do is be able to consistently convert 3rd and 1. Has to be virtually a given. Both Pugh and Richburg are not strong enough to do that. The guys we have now pending who plays RG are. In fact, with Greco at RG we probably are ok with that. We aren’t yet done with our 2018 OL. It will be vastly better than the last 6 years versions. Pugh was a reach. Consensus 2nd round talent at the time. If Pugh was a 2nd or 3rd round pick and Richburg a 4th, while not great , they wouldn’t seem so bad. But they were a first and a second , so yes, they were bad picks. Our new GM will find better players than them in the later rounds. Guaranteed.
RE: I say good luck to Pugh, Richburg, Kennard, etc. Â
I wanted to keep Kennard as I thought he was worthy but only at the right price. Richburg was just too small at OC. Pugh was hurt too often to deal him bigger money. He was versatile though and in that respect I did want him back - but not at $45m.
Overall, I think we are doing OK in free agency.
If the Browns take Darnold or Barkley, I would NOT be shocked if the Giants traded down (Rosen being on the board....) and we take OL Allen and a bunch of other solid Round 1, 2 picks. It all boils down to whether we get the right players drafted with this Gettleman regime.
Your assessment of Kennard, Richburg, and Pugh are the same as mine. I also wanted to keep Kennard, but only at a reasonable price, and I always thought Richburg often got run over and that Pugh, good when healthy, was not healthy often enough. As for the Giants trading the pick, I think they may if Darnold is gone even if Barkley is still there. After watching additional film of Barkley, I no longer think he's the next coming of Emmitt Smith. On the other hand, if Darnold is gone, I would not be disappointed if the Giants retain the pick and select Josh Allen, despite his accuracy issues according to many. I just think this kid is really physically talented and seems to be emotionally stable and ready to learn. Otherwise, trade the pick.
The first thing an OL has to do is be able to consistently convert 3rd and 1. Has to be virtually a given. Both Pugh and Richburg are not strong enough to do that. The guys we have now pending who plays RG are. In fact, with Greco at RG we probably are ok with that. We aren’t yet done with our 2018 OL. It will be vastly better than the last 6 years versions. Pugh was a reach. Consensus 2nd round talent at the time. If Pugh was a 2nd or 3rd round pick and Richburg a 4th, while not great , they wouldn’t seem so bad. But they were a first and a second , so yes, they were bad picks. Our new GM will find better players than them in the later rounds. Guaranteed.
He and Richburg are better than the guys the Giants have taking their places . So in my opinion. Gettleman did not do a great job evaluating the line .
This is not a fact, it remains to be seen. Richberg and Pugh were often not available to play, and so by definition they weren’t very valuable. You can’t realistically conclude anything about Gettleman’s job at evaluating the Oline, until you see actual results. Take a good look at on-field performance after a full season to get a real picture.
Centers coming out, IIRC. Pugh and Richburg should have been cornerstones in this Oline. Pugh was good when healthy and Richburg was good for one year. If Pugh can stay on the field, he’s a good pick up. Richburg on the other hand, declined in performance. I don’t know what happened to him, but I feel he never really committed himself to get stronger, at least that’s my take on it. He always seemed to be pushed back by NTs right over him and he never seemed to win the one on one battles.
RE: RE: I say good luck to Pugh, Richburg, Kennard, etc. Â
I wanted to keep Kennard as I thought he was worthy but only at the right price. Richburg was just too small at OC. Pugh was hurt too often to deal him bigger money. He was versatile though and in that respect I did want him back - but not at $45m.
Overall, I think we are doing OK in free agency.
If the Browns take Darnold or Barkley, I would NOT be shocked if the Giants traded down (Rosen being on the board....) and we take OL Allen and a bunch of other solid Round 1, 2 picks. It all boils down to whether we get the right players drafted with this Gettleman regime.
Your assessment of Kennard, Richburg, and Pugh are the same as mine. I also wanted to keep Kennard, but only at a reasonable price, and I always thought Richburg often got run over and that Pugh, good when healthy, was not healthy often enough. As for the Giants trading the pick, I think they may if Darnold is gone even if Barkley is still there. After watching additional film of Barkley, I no longer think he's the next coming of Emmitt Smith. On the other hand, if Darnold is gone, I would not be disappointed if the Giants retain the pick and select Josh Allen, despite his accuracy issues according to many. I just think this kid is really physically talented and seems to be emotionally stable and ready to learn. Otherwise, trade the pick.
Agreed. All three were nice players, but nothing special and are easily replaceable. Gettleman has to go the FA route initially to make up for some of the bad decisions made by Reese.
i'm sorry but pugh is an average player in my opinion Â
he consistently got pushed into the backfield on ISO running plays. he was not part of the solution.
he was fine in pass pro but his run blocking was average at best. not worth the money. i really think he would have been better at C or staying put at OT
Disregarding last year's draft at this stage in the game Â
but he wasn't particularly good either. He was the best player on a bad unit. A serviceable starter, but missed a lot of games, and often didn't appear in a hurry to get back on the field.
He certainly wasn't what you would hope for from a 1st round pick.
This is conjecture, but I agree with the notion that he may have been a part of a bad culture on the line.
in the locker room...but we could all tell there was genuine leadership, toughness and mutual bond with guys like OHara, Snee, and Seubert. We never got that kind of vibe from Pugh and Richburg
As a player, good when healthy, not great, but no second thoughts about making zero effort to bring him back.
RE: RE: There's a bit of revisionist history at work Â
if we're gonna call Pugh a reach. By what measure? Sometimes guys are the right pick at the time and it simply doesn't work out over the long term. He's an NFL-caliber starter.
From what I recall he was a reach at the time so was Kyle Long who went one pick later.
We picked Pugh over Xavier Rhodes and DeAndre Hopkins.
They picked what they felt was a good, versatile, experienced college LT at a time when the offensive line was falling apart. Diehl was cooked in 2012. Will Beatty took his LT job. They had Cruz and Nicks at WR. They couldn't have predicted that Nicks was going to break down that same year. There's an argument to be made that they should have taken a corner, but it's not like offensive line wasn't a big need at the time. It's easy to play 'they should have picked x player' after the fact.
You've just stated the problem in a nutshell; they needed an OL and took the highest rated OL in their board.
I would go as far as to call him a huge reach, but he may have gone a little early, and they certainly forced a pick at a position of need. Sometimes you need to do that I guess.
I also think Coughlin/Reese regime had an infatuation with Syracuse that elevated their opinion of of a couple players.
2 days ago posters were positing an Oline with Pugh and I informed those posters that Pugh would be signing in Arizona specifically yesterday.
As always the usual crew came out with guns blazing telling me how I don't know anything and weirdly presuming as always that I'm purposely trying to trick BBI with info or something. I don't know if it's jealousy or whatever it's not a big deal I just happened to know some people in the business.
Hey, I stuck up for you and punted that troll back to giants.com!
Finesse player who plays light in the britches. No nasty. Lack of want-to.
Like most of Reese’s draft picks maybe a nice person to invite to sip wine and play backgammon w on a weeknight but not what this OL should be made up of...
We need guys who are tone setters for this offensive line, that was not Pugh. Give us mentally stronger, physically less fragile.
Wish him the best, perhaps a change of scenery will do him well.
That “sip wine and play backgammon” quote has me thinking Will Beatty!
Like we can't form opinions and post them on a Giants message board unless we make our observations from within the locker room. We cannot jump to any conclusions based on watching every game and most interviews posted on the web. Could be all fake info. I guess.
If I did know the players and the atmosphere 1st hand I would bet that a few guys on here might want to get more intimate. LOL ... Get over yourselves. Some of you really fall in love with these players. I only love my team. Anyone who screw it all up for us needs to go. Here on BBI we even saw this kind of BLIND loyalty to a guy like Bobby Hart. Just let the team move on please. I root for the Giants and some of you are stuck still pondering what could've been with former Giants now playing elsewhere. Get over yourselves.
The guy busted his ass only to be made to feel like he was crashing the party. Diehl and everyone else wanted to get Diehl out of the LG spot. Diehl wanted to be the LT and it showed. It was addition by subtraction in 2011 when Beatty suffered a mysterious eye injury and Diehl was moved from left guard where he really sucked.
From day one it was floated that Beatty was soft, etc... All I saw was a guy who had great size & athleticism, great form in pass blocking, made his block and got to the second level (was busting his ass running upfield when he suffered a broken leg.), and he is still the only O-lineman Reese drafted who was signed to a 2nd contract.
I hated how it went here for Beatty and I, for one, am tired of hearing his name tossed around here in jest. He deserves better, IMHO. Signing him for 6million and getting the level of play we got from him seems like a bargain now that I have seen the likes of Flowers, Pugh, Richburg from our recent drafts, guys drafted in the 3rd round or later who never saw the field, many free agent busts(some of which are so butthurt they are still trolling the team; insulting the O-linmen : what is that dickbag's name?), not to mention that I remember 2003 vividly......
Beatty wasn't so bad.
Diehl might be the most overrated NY Giant of all time Â
He played, he stayed on the field. He was a 5th round draft pick so getting a starter from that round who lasted a long time and rarely got injured should certainly a plus. But he was a below average player at every position on the line and at some of them he wouldn't have made another NFL roster.
once the first contract is up, an incumbent player is the same as any other FA. If some other team outbids us, it simply means we don't value the player enough to pay that much. Same as the bidding for another team's player.
If we poach a player from another team for his second contract, does that mean we're picking up a failed draft pick?
drafting players that don't get a second contract, or who don't do much anywhere - that's the sign of bad drafting.
Pugh may have been a bad draft pick because he didn't give production worthy of his draft selection, and because he was always injured (that only counts against the drafter IF it could reasonably be forecast that injuries were likely).
I still cannot believe that Richburg got all that coin. The guy was on roller skates for the past two years. Really, I was shocked. Almost 10M per year. Crazy.
once the first contract is up, an incumbent player is the same as any other FA. If some other team outbids us, it simply means we don't value the player enough to pay that much. Same as the bidding for another team's player.
If we poach a player from another team for his second contract, does that mean we're picking up a failed draft pick?
drafting players that don't get a second contract, or who don't do much anywhere - that's the sign of bad drafting.
Pugh may have been a bad draft pick because he didn't give production worthy of his draft selection, and because he was always injured (that only counts against the drafter IF it could reasonably be forecast that injuries were likely).
Nearly every quality player he DID draft had their careers cut short due to injury. The useless stat of Jerry Reese draft picks that did not get a second contract was always dishonest and weak and people ate it up by the bowlful
Like we can't form opinions and post them on a Giants message board unless we make our observations from within the locker room. We cannot jump to any conclusions based on watching every game and most interviews posted on the web. Could be all fake info. I guess.
If I did know the players and the atmosphere 1st hand I would bet that a few guys on here might want to get more intimate. LOL ... Get over yourselves. Some of you really fall in love with these players. I only love my team. Anyone who screw it all up for us needs to go. Here on BBI we even saw this kind of BLIND loyalty to a guy like Bobby Hart. Just let the team move on please. I root for the Giants and some of you are stuck still pondering what could've been with former Giants now playing elsewhere. Get over yourselves.
So you can analyze a guy's personality by watching him play football? Give your opinions on their play, not their inner psyche. When you do that it is clear you are a weird little man making demons out of players you don't like and weirdly fixating in others that you do. It's football cupcake, not one of your daytime stories.
2 days ago posters were positing an Oline with Pugh and I informed those posters that Pugh would be signing in Arizona specifically yesterday.
As always the usual crew came out with guns blazing telling me how I don't know anything and weirdly presuming as always that I'm purposely trying to trick BBI with info or something. I don't know if it's jealousy or whatever it's not a big deal I just happened to know some people in the business.
Hey, I stuck up for you and punted that troll back to giants.com!
LOL, there was info out in the open that Pugh was nearing a deal with ARZ at that point. I actually posted it myself.
And while you're busy patting yourself on the back, in that same post or shortly after, you said the Giants were about to make a "nice signing" but then said you wouldn't share who it was - I guess because not enough posters were begging you for info or treating you as specially as you want.
Well, the Giants haven't signed anyone since then.
The lack of self-awareness is really stunning. You seem so desperate to tell everyone that you "know people in the business" and you make proclamations that you have more info than anyone else on BBI or claim that most everyone else is clueless and doesn't understand the inner-workings of the NFL and then play the victim card when posters give you flak.
It shouldn't be difficult to figure out why you get piled on. It has nothing to do with "jealousy," either.
needs to have his teeth knocked out but for some reason I would have to bet that it wouldn't be the first time. You have some serious problems, Mike. Stay on the message boards where you are safe. Going out in public could be hazardous for someone with such a sour disposition. I'd bet that you are very lonely.
Though I do agree we have an incredible number of Â
It's so weird... I feel like Solder isn't worth the money, but I know for a fact Richburg and Pugh aren't worth that money. I guess that's NFL free agency for ya'.
A lot of talk about how #2 is such a hard franchise altering pick but myself and many others felt this way when we started having top 10 picks routinely. We got one right with Beckham but Flowers and Apple were the other 2 and Pugh was a reach and need top 20 pick as well. A common meme was how Reese always nailed his 1st round pick.. Not so much.
From what I recall he was a reach at the time so was Kyle Long who went one pick later.
We picked Pugh over Xavier Rhodes and DeAndre Hopkins.
Quote:
if we're gonna call Pugh a reach. By what measure? Sometimes guys are the right pick at the time and it simply doesn't work out over the long term. He's an NFL-caliber starter.
From what I recall he was a reach at the time so was Kyle Long who went one pick later.
We picked Pugh over Xavier Rhodes and DeAndre Hopkins.
And Travis Frederick and Zach Ertz and Darius Slay and Leveon Bell.
I understand what you are saying and you are not incorrect, but the truth is this is ANOTHER player who will not see his second contract with the Giants. They let him walk because he could not stay on the field. (And I personally wonder if he milked some of these injuries knowing his upcoming FA status).
in fairness, pugh is a serviceable, versatile guy, he just can't be counted on to stay healthy. his only knock, other than the recent comments saying he is not so committed to his profession.
He and Richburg are better than the guys the Giants have taking their places . So in my opinion. Gettleman did not do a great job evaluating the line . If Solder pops a labrum the first couple of months , however unfair it might be, he will look like an asshole .
He won’t need to start too many games to be better than Schwartz.
Ogletree was coveted in 2013, but we reached for the short armed China Doll, Pugh.
Also let's not say Apple was a bad pick. He showed a lot of promise in year 1. Had a bad year 2, but so did everybody on the team. He's 22 years old and had a really rough year off the field. His parents got divorced and his Mom was spreading lies about the man who raised him & the rest of his Brothers/Sisters. His Mom had to have brain surgery. Yeah I know it's easy to say he's an athlete and that shouldn't effect him on the field, but that's simply not true. He's a human and that kinda shit gets to you.
My Mom & Stepfather got divorced when I was 18 and it was a really tough thing to deal with. Seeing the two people that raised you fighting (Trying to make one parent out to be a gold digger is even worse). It essentially changes your whole life and the only thing you've ever known.
Then the brain surgery will have a huge impact on just about anybody. My Mom had to get rushed to the hospital 2 weeks ago and was in there for a few days. The Dr's were worried about colon cancer. I couldn't focus on work. I was a nervous wreck worrying about my Mother while we awaited her results. Luckily she is ok, but I can't even imagine having to worry about my Mom having brain surgery where she could die or end up as a vegetable.
So yeah he was horrible this past year, but I'm gonna give him a pass before saying he's a bust. Our entire team was a mess playing for a HC that a lot of players didn't seem to like.
Smells of 6 games,a pulled hammy or pec muscle, and a concussion headed his way.
He's a good player but not the type of player you give a sizable second contract to. He's just not reliable enough, and wherever that leak came from about the org questioning his priorities/commitment, I think it was genuine.
When you're ushering in a new era, this is one of the players that are difficult to make a decision on - because he's a good football player, but doesn't necessarily fit in with what the new regime is trying to accomplish.
The writing was on the wall for a long time. I never expected him back here, but I also have nothing against him or the Cards - so, I hope he does well there and wish him the best of luck.
This was a first round pick by Reese that couldve been better. Arizona made a huge mistake.
Overall, I think we are doing OK in free agency.
If the Browns take Darnold or Barkley, I would NOT be shocked if the Giants traded down (Rosen being on the board....) and we take OL Allen and a bunch of other solid Round 1, 2 picks. It all boils down to whether we get the right players drafted with this Gettleman regime.
Anybody that thinks the are worth anything doesn't know wtf is up with the Giants. These guys killed the culture of this team. They are horrible on the field, terribly injury prone, and two of the biggest assholes around. Neither one of them can hack it at this level and they really do know it because it really does show. They wear it on their sleeves. They both have inferiority complexes. There never was any chemistry at all with these guys. There was nobody who could even lead the group because of the bad atmosphere created by outmatched jerk-offs who walk around like somebody pissed in their cheerios. Fuck them. Good riddance. I am am insanely glad that Gettleman made zero effort to sign these douche bags. Now we can get back to practicing hard in the trenches as we all know that the defensive line has been hurt too by this situation because they had to play fucking patty-cake all through training camp so they didn't break the offensive linemen's fragile spirits.
Anybody that thinks the are worth anything doesn't know wtf is up with the Giants. These guys killed the culture of this team. They are horrible on the field, terribly injury prone, and two of the biggest assholes around. Neither one of them can hack it at this level and they really do know it because it really does show. They wear it on their sleeves. They both have inferiority complexes. There never was any chemistry at all with these guys. There was nobody who could even lead the group because of the bad atmosphere created by outmatched jerk-offs who walk around like somebody pissed in their cheerios. Fuck them. Good riddance. I am am insanely glad that Gettleman made zero effort to sign these douche bags. Now we can get back to practicing hard in the trenches as we all know that the defensive line has been hurt too by this situation because they had to play fucking patty-cake all through training camp so they didn't break the offensive linemen's fragile spirits.
Nailed it.
He is however very injury prone which is a problem. Good signing if he can stay healthy, but doubtful to happen.
Bromley Sintim Austin ETC
Anybody that thinks the are worth anything doesn't know wtf is up with the Giants. These guys killed the culture of this team. They are horrible on the field, terribly injury prone, and two of the biggest assholes around. Neither one of them can hack it at this level and they really do know it because it really does show. They wear it on their sleeves. They both have inferiority complexes. There never was any chemistry at all with these guys. There was nobody who could even lead the group because of the bad atmosphere created by outmatched jerk-offs who walk around like somebody pissed in their cheerios. Fuck them. Good riddance. I am am insanely glad that Gettleman made zero effort to sign these douche bags. Now we can get back to practicing hard in the trenches as we all know that the defensive line has been hurt too by this situation because they had to play fucking patty-cake all through training camp so they didn't break the offensive linemen's fragile spirits.
Do you spend a lot of time with these guys? You seem to know them pretty well. Also sounds like you spend a lot of time at practices. What other insights on the team can you pass on to those of us who are not part of the organization?
Bromley Sintim Austin ETC
What did you tell us? I missed something.
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So
What did you tell us? I missed something.
2 days ago posters were positing an Oline with Pugh and I informed those posters that Pugh would be signing in Arizona specifically yesterday.
As always the usual crew came out with guns blazing telling me how I don't know anything and weirdly presuming as always that I'm purposely trying to trick BBI with info or something. I don't know if it's jealousy or whatever it's not a big deal I just happened to know some people in the business.
Ogletree was coveted in 2013, but we reached for the short armed China Doll, Pugh.
I’d like to ask you a question. Are you stupid?
First off, Gettleman wasn’t even the Giants GM in 2011 and in 2013 he was with the Panthers.
Your hot takes could fry egg. Holy shit.
Finesse player who plays light in the britches. No nasty. Lack of want-to.
Like most of Reese’s draft picks maybe a nice person to invite to sip wine and play backgammon w on a weeknight but not what this OL should be made up of...
We need guys who are tone setters for this offensive line, that was not Pugh. Give us mentally stronger, physically less fragile.
Wish him the best, perhaps a change of scenery will do him well.
Overall, I think we are doing OK in free agency.
If the Browns take Darnold or Barkley, I would NOT be shocked if the Giants traded down (Rosen being on the board....) and we take OL Allen and a bunch of other solid Round 1, 2 picks. It all boils down to whether we get the right players drafted with this Gettleman regime.
Your assessment of Kennard, Richburg, and Pugh are the same as mine. I also wanted to keep Kennard, but only at a reasonable price, and I always thought Richburg often got run over and that Pugh, good when healthy, was not healthy often enough. As for the Giants trading the pick, I think they may if Darnold is gone even if Barkley is still there. After watching additional film of Barkley, I no longer think he's the next coming of Emmitt Smith. On the other hand, if Darnold is gone, I would not be disappointed if the Giants retain the pick and select Josh Allen, despite his accuracy issues according to many. I just think this kid is really physically talented and seems to be emotionally stable and ready to learn. Otherwise, trade the pick.
Or even undrafted players like he found Norwell.
He and Richburg are better than the guys the Giants have taking their places . So in my opinion. Gettleman did not do a great job evaluating the line .
This is not a fact, it remains to be seen. Richberg and Pugh were often not available to play, and so by definition they weren’t very valuable. You can’t realistically conclude anything about Gettleman’s job at evaluating the Oline, until you see actual results. Take a good look at on-field performance after a full season to get a real picture.
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I wanted to keep Kennard as I thought he was worthy but only at the right price. Richburg was just too small at OC. Pugh was hurt too often to deal him bigger money. He was versatile though and in that respect I did want him back - but not at $45m.
Overall, I think we are doing OK in free agency.
If the Browns take Darnold or Barkley, I would NOT be shocked if the Giants traded down (Rosen being on the board....) and we take OL Allen and a bunch of other solid Round 1, 2 picks. It all boils down to whether we get the right players drafted with this Gettleman regime.
Your assessment of Kennard, Richburg, and Pugh are the same as mine. I also wanted to keep Kennard, but only at a reasonable price, and I always thought Richburg often got run over and that Pugh, good when healthy, was not healthy often enough. As for the Giants trading the pick, I think they may if Darnold is gone even if Barkley is still there. After watching additional film of Barkley, I no longer think he's the next coming of Emmitt Smith. On the other hand, if Darnold is gone, I would not be disappointed if the Giants retain the pick and select Josh Allen, despite his accuracy issues according to many. I just think this kid is really physically talented and seems to be emotionally stable and ready to learn. Otherwise, trade the pick.
Agreed. All three were nice players, but nothing special and are easily replaceable. Gettleman has to go the FA route initially to make up for some of the bad decisions made by Reese.
he was fine in pass pro but his run blocking was average at best. not worth the money. i really think he would have been better at C or staying put at OT
What the hell else did we really get out of all the Drafts from the 2011 and later?
Draft picks all have levels of risk but the value we got out of those players in those drafts is shockingly bad...
Not only should Reese and others been fired, it should have been for cause...
He certainly wasn't what you would hope for from a 1st round pick.
This is conjecture, but I agree with the notion that he may have been a part of a bad culture on the line.
As a player, good when healthy, not great, but no second thoughts about making zero effort to bring him back.
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if we're gonna call Pugh a reach. By what measure? Sometimes guys are the right pick at the time and it simply doesn't work out over the long term. He's an NFL-caliber starter.
From what I recall he was a reach at the time so was Kyle Long who went one pick later.
We picked Pugh over Xavier Rhodes and DeAndre Hopkins.
They picked what they felt was a good, versatile, experienced college LT at a time when the offensive line was falling apart. Diehl was cooked in 2012. Will Beatty took his LT job. They had Cruz and Nicks at WR. They couldn't have predicted that Nicks was going to break down that same year. There's an argument to be made that they should have taken a corner, but it's not like offensive line wasn't a big need at the time. It's easy to play 'they should have picked x player' after the fact.
1st rounder, his play never consistently gave Giants the return on an investment, performance, you want from such a high pick.
I would go as far as to call him a huge reach, but he may have gone a little early, and they certainly forced a pick at a position of need. Sometimes you need to do that I guess.
I also think Coughlin/Reese regime had an infatuation with Syracuse that elevated their opinion of of a couple players.
No one can deny Bromley was a reach.
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In comment 13870507 ThatLimerickGuy said:
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So
What did you tell us? I missed something.
2 days ago posters were positing an Oline with Pugh and I informed those posters that Pugh would be signing in Arizona specifically yesterday.
As always the usual crew came out with guns blazing telling me how I don't know anything and weirdly presuming as always that I'm purposely trying to trick BBI with info or something. I don't know if it's jealousy or whatever it's not a big deal I just happened to know some people in the business.
Hey, I stuck up for you and punted that troll back to giants.com!
Finesse player who plays light in the britches. No nasty. Lack of want-to.
Like most of Reese’s draft picks maybe a nice person to invite to sip wine and play backgammon w on a weeknight but not what this OL should be made up of...
We need guys who are tone setters for this offensive line, that was not Pugh. Give us mentally stronger, physically less fragile.
Wish him the best, perhaps a change of scenery will do him well.
That “sip wine and play backgammon” quote has me thinking Will Beatty!
If I did know the players and the atmosphere 1st hand I would bet that a few guys on here might want to get more intimate. LOL ... Get over yourselves. Some of you really fall in love with these players. I only love my team. Anyone who screw it all up for us needs to go. Here on BBI we even saw this kind of BLIND loyalty to a guy like Bobby Hart. Just let the team move on please. I root for the Giants and some of you are stuck still pondering what could've been with former Giants now playing elsewhere. Get over yourselves.
The guy busted his ass only to be made to feel like he was crashing the party. Diehl and everyone else wanted to get Diehl out of the LG spot. Diehl wanted to be the LT and it showed. It was addition by subtraction in 2011 when Beatty suffered a mysterious eye injury and Diehl was moved from left guard where he really sucked.
From day one it was floated that Beatty was soft, etc... All I saw was a guy who had great size & athleticism, great form in pass blocking, made his block and got to the second level (was busting his ass running upfield when he suffered a broken leg.), and he is still the only O-lineman Reese drafted who was signed to a 2nd contract.
I hated how it went here for Beatty and I, for one, am tired of hearing his name tossed around here in jest. He deserves better, IMHO. Signing him for 6million and getting the level of play we got from him seems like a bargain now that I have seen the likes of Flowers, Pugh, Richburg from our recent drafts, guys drafted in the 3rd round or later who never saw the field, many free agent busts(some of which are so butthurt they are still trolling the team; insulting the O-linmen : what is that dickbag's name?), not to mention that I remember 2003 vividly......
Beatty wasn't so bad.
If we poach a player from another team for his second contract, does that mean we're picking up a failed draft pick?
drafting players that don't get a second contract, or who don't do much anywhere - that's the sign of bad drafting.
Pugh may have been a bad draft pick because he didn't give production worthy of his draft selection, and because he was always injured (that only counts against the drafter IF it could reasonably be forecast that injuries were likely).
If we poach a player from another team for his second contract, does that mean we're picking up a failed draft pick?
drafting players that don't get a second contract, or who don't do much anywhere - that's the sign of bad drafting.
Pugh may have been a bad draft pick because he didn't give production worthy of his draft selection, and because he was always injured (that only counts against the drafter IF it could reasonably be forecast that injuries were likely).
Nearly every quality player he DID draft had their careers cut short due to injury. The useless stat of Jerry Reese draft picks that did not get a second contract was always dishonest and weak and people ate it up by the bowlful
If I did know the players and the atmosphere 1st hand I would bet that a few guys on here might want to get more intimate. LOL ... Get over yourselves. Some of you really fall in love with these players. I only love my team. Anyone who screw it all up for us needs to go. Here on BBI we even saw this kind of BLIND loyalty to a guy like Bobby Hart. Just let the team move on please. I root for the Giants and some of you are stuck still pondering what could've been with former Giants now playing elsewhere. Get over yourselves.
So you can analyze a guy's personality by watching him play football? Give your opinions on their play, not their inner psyche. When you do that it is clear you are a weird little man making demons out of players you don't like and weirdly fixating in others that you do. It's football cupcake, not one of your daytime stories.
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In comment 13870518 Reb8thVA said:
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In comment 13870507 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
So
What did you tell us? I missed something.
2 days ago posters were positing an Oline with Pugh and I informed those posters that Pugh would be signing in Arizona specifically yesterday.
As always the usual crew came out with guns blazing telling me how I don't know anything and weirdly presuming as always that I'm purposely trying to trick BBI with info or something. I don't know if it's jealousy or whatever it's not a big deal I just happened to know some people in the business.
Hey, I stuck up for you and punted that troll back to giants.com!
LOL, there was info out in the open that Pugh was nearing a deal with ARZ at that point. I actually posted it myself.
And while you're busy patting yourself on the back, in that same post or shortly after, you said the Giants were about to make a "nice signing" but then said you wouldn't share who it was - I guess because not enough posters were begging you for info or treating you as specially as you want.
Well, the Giants haven't signed anyone since then.
The lack of self-awareness is really stunning. You seem so desperate to tell everyone that you "know people in the business" and you make proclamations that you have more info than anyone else on BBI or claim that most everyone else is clueless and doesn't understand the inner-workings of the NFL and then play the victim card when posters give you flak.
It shouldn't be difficult to figure out why you get piled on. It has nothing to do with "jealousy," either.